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The thing that sits about a foot above his shoulders.
Or he may have been looking at Oklahoma City, San Antonio, and Dallas.
Players are often on a different timetable than fans are, and of course players are often not the greatest analysts of the skill levels of their peers. They had Millsap ready to replace Boozer, but maybe Williams didn't care about that. OTOH, the rest of the team at that moment was basically Kirilenko, Okur, Brewer, Korver, and Matthews. I think the Utah FO more or less showed by trading him that if Williams thought they didn't have the pieces, he was right.
Absolutely. He's still one of my favorites, and assuming continued development of Favors and Hayward and no big dropoff from Millsap or Al, I think that team could contend. I still think he would have stayed if he believed the Jazz could contend for a championship. I don't think he'd come back now, though.
I'd like to get Booey's opinion as well (or anyone that watches a lot of the Jazz) but I don't think Favors has that problem. He's raw still, but not stupid.
I hope so. I just can't stand their team or owner, and I'd love to see them lose DWill (which I think they will), not acquire Howard, and then lose their draft pick for Wallace.
Man, I didn't know anyone felt that strongly negative or positive about the Nets.
OKC I could see for sure. Not so sure about SA or Dallas. By 2010, neither of them had done anything special in the playoffs for a few years. And since their stars were all in their 30's, I don't see any reason why someone in 2010 would've thought the younger Jazz wouldn't have been able to compete with a few former contenders on their way down.
I sure didn't predict either Dallas or San Antonio's resurgence in 2011, did you?
I'd like to get Booey's opinion as well (or anyone that watches a lot of the Jazz) but I don't think Favors has that problem. He's raw still, but not stupid.
Yeah, I don't see Favors having maturity or mental issues either. He committs dumb fouls sometimes, but that's most young players. And I love how aggressive he is on D and on crashing the offensive boards. With some time to develop and a little patience from management, I'm very optimistic about his future.
It's mostly because I read more annoying crap from them since I'm a Yankees fan and the Knicks are my 2nd favorite NBA team.
I don't recall what I predicted about those teams, and I don't see why it matters. Even if I was wrong, I think most people saw both of them as being better than Utah heading into the season. In addition, Denver was well-thought of heading into 2011, even with the Anthony thing going on, and a huge number of people thought the Lakers would win the conference again. Seems like a million years ago now, but many people, including me, were high on Portland then as well.
"Younger" is not the same thing as "better", and "going downhill some" is not the same thing as "sucks." Plus, Williams is not at the beginning of his career.
One team I was off on last year was Memphis, whom I had in the lottery. I also think I had Portland winning 55 games last year. I didn't make predictions this year other than on the Lakers, whom I picked as the 5/6 seed in the West, and the obvious OKC/MIA Finals pick.
If you're talking about right before the 2011 season after the Jazz had already lost Boozer, Matthews, and Korver, then yes, you're probably right. But when you mentioned Williams comment about the Lakers "Just being better", that happened immediately following the 2010 season, right? And at that point - before we lost half our core - I don't see any reason why people would've assumed Dallas (who lost in the first round), SA (who was 3 wins behind us during the regular season and who we swept in the season series, and who was swept themselves in the second round), or Denver (who we had just beaten in the playoffs) would have been significantly better than the Jazz. I'm not saying the Jazz should have been a favorite or anything, but I don't see why anyone would've thought at the time that we couldn't have hung with anyone in the west other than the Lakers and possibly the up and coming Thunder. Portland had gone down in each of the last two years. I never saw in them what everyone else seemed to see.
Huh. Kobe elbow-punch first, and Shaq shoves Ewing. I honestly don't remember this at all.
Either way. The Lakers swept them; then they lost some guys, but it is not as if Wesley Matthews and Kyle Korver scare anybody. They were 31-23 when Sloan left. And "Hang with anyone in the West other than maybe the Lakers and Thunder" is not the same as being a real contender. You also have a Jazz fan in this thread saying that he thinks Williams would have stayed if he had thought the Jazz were legit. You can argue Williams was wrong if you want, but I don't think many people saw the Jazz as anything other than a second or third-tier contender--including their own FO.
I saw that game but had long since forgotten about it.
When you don't have championship memories, you find different things to hold on to.
Tough rooting for a small-market team, I guess. ;-
Interesting points on NYK/IND. Did not see any games betw the 2.
Knicks signed Gadzuric a couple of days ago.
Ah, well I guess Lester Hudson has some competition for most impactful last minute signing.
72-66
What'd he say? If, on the former, he complained, I don't see a point. Does Love have remotely the past that Artest does? If, however, he said he thinks Love is underrated, I would agree with that.
Maybe. The 2011 Jazz were 27-14 in the first half; they sure looked like contenders at that time. Then they lost a few games and the Williams/Sloan relationship seemed to start going downhill and maybe that was a distraction cuz everything seemed to unravel from there. So was that first half a fluke, or was their nosedive 12-29 second half a fluke? Probably a little of both, but the FO didn't really give it enough time to find out. Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced that the Williams led Jazz couldn't have picked up their old ways and been back to 50 wins in 2012. But I agreed with the trade, since I think Williams was gone regardless. Just my opinion; there's really no way to know for sure, obviously.
How don't I remember that fight? And why did Childs punch Kobe in the neck twice?
I do remember that one. And I remember thinking it was really weird that Childs aimed specifically for Kobe's neck rather than his face. Who does that?
Billy Hunter tried to direct union funds to a bank his son sat on the board of?
Billy Hunter takes home half the salary the union pays out to all employees?
This summer, when most of the players wanted to move forwards with decertification:
Or this tidbit:
All of this stinks to high heaven. I think Fisher is right to not respond to allegations. He doesn't appear to want to keep the job, and I don't blame him.
Honestly though, who here HASN'T thought about stepping on Scola's face at one time or another?
and in related news:
I know your joking here, but it does bother me that Love didn't get much flack for that. Artest deserves everything he gets for the elbow, but people still act as though Bynum hit Barea with a metal chair while LOVE STEPPED ON A MAN'S FACE. I'm not the squeamish-type so I'm not in a huge rage over a little violence in sport, but it does seem that people/media choose villains for non-circumstance reasons. I think the lack of outrage by the outrage police for Love reeks.
I was completely floored by that reporting. 2 things:
1) ESPN should be ashamed of themselves. They should barely be considered a journalistic entity at this point. Yahoo Sports continues to rule the day in actual sports journalism, and its not close.
2) I lost some respect for CP3 and the other members of the executive committee. The fact that this was going under their noses, comes to light and the first choice they made was to ask Fish to resign is completely transparent. With Garrity and now Fish being pushed out, its obvious that its Hunter who runs the NBA Players Union and not the players. They better hope that Hunter doesn't have grandchildren if they are expecting a pension to fall back on after they retire.
That seems like a lot of players even though we're talking over 6 decades, in that winning 3 straight scoring titles seems hard to do.
I think past history plays a part in how people view the Bynum and Artest incidents compared to the Love one. As was mentioned earlier, the Barea elbow was at least Bynum's 3rd time doing that, including once earlier that very same season. And Artest's history is obviously well known. As far as I've heard, the Love stomp was the first black mark on his record. If he racks up a couple more within the next few years, I think he'll start to be treated the same way Bynum was.
This is a really ####### good point. I don't have anything else to say.
Sure--but a legit, top-tier contender? Don't see it, and that's the issue, not whether they could go 50-32. Williams has been there.
As far as Love, it's combination of Scola's not getting hurt, Love's not having a rep, and the fact that it was in a TWolves/Rockets game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lz0-HvMNyM
Well, we'll see if he ends up finding more success than he had with the Jazz somewhere else. And I actually hope he does. I still like DWillie, and one and a half years in Jersey is punishment enough for allegedly wanting to leave us.
RR#55 - Any chance you could post that link again?
So how does the Artest suspension work, anyway? I know it's for 7 games, but Stern mentioned missing a regular season game (I assume so that it actually hurts Artests checkbook). Is it for the first 6 games of the playoffs and the first game of the regular season? Cuz I think it's very likely the Lakers will play more than 7 playoff games this year. But what if they don't? If they lost in 4 or 5 in the first round, would MWP get the rest of the suspension tacked on to the beginning of next season, costing him even more?
Turner's quotes, from ESPN:
For obvious reasons, he's tired of being curbstomped by the Heat. But predictably and understandably, Bulls fans are going to take that as a slight. It's not just been coming from Philly that the Bulls are the team most would rather face. On one hand, I see where everyone is coming from. On the other, is it really a big difference losing in 5 games* instead of 4? Sure, technically there's a non-zero chance Philly wins the series; I just don't see it happening even if Rose went down again. The Bulls have everyone back now, and even though Rose is still playing himself into shape he doesn't look hurt playing right now**.
The Bulls have to prove they can beat Miami in the playoffs, but nothing else that happened this year makes me think they're particularly vulnerable to anyone else in the East***. They're going to finish with the best scoring margin (man, SA has really closed that gap late****), the best defense again, and in the top 5 offenses even with their injury problems. If anything, I'm much more confident in the team this year than I was last postseason.
*I say Philly wins game 3 against the Bulls. They're not a good road team, so I don't see them winning any in Chicago even though it'll take a couple of games before the Bulls look really good; Philly can't win close games either. The Heat would win in 4 by an average of 20 points.
**In both the Dallas game Saturday and last night in Indy, he's making his normal moves. He's not as consistently explosive (he's pacing himself and only pushing it on occasion), and he's not finishing as well, but it looks like it's just weak legs as opposed to not having the ability. It's hard to stay in shape with foot, ankle and back injuries.
***If the Bulls get by Miami, I am definitely scared of OKC.
****SA is also going to finish with the best record against teams over .500 at 31-11. Bulls are 2nd at 24-12. In general, the West teams all played 6 more games against teams over .500 than the East; the Grizz and Jazz are the only West playoff teams that have losing records against over .500 teams and the Bulls and Heat are the only East playoff teams with winning records against over .500 teams. Philly and Orlando are tied with the worst records against winning teams (for teams that are in the playoffs) at 13-23.
It's for tonight, and the next 6 games he plays whether it's in the playoffs or next season. Ric Bucher tweeted a correction the other day saying the new CBA breaks up everyone's paychecks into 110 games (or something, I don't remember the exact number) so that the playoff games he miss cost him the same amount he'd miss if it were a regular season game. I saw somewhere it's costing him somewhere north of $400K.
Ah, gotcha. I overlooked the last game of this season. I thought the Lakers had already played their final regular season game, for some reason.
He is supposedly going to be the only starter who plays. We'll see.
He is supposedly going to be the only starter who plays. We'll see.
Do you think opposing teams ever care who wins the scoring title when it comes down to the final regular season game and nothing else is on the line for either team? In MLB history there's been a few controversial batting titles that came down to the final game and the opposing team seemed to let certain players get hits to help them win. Think Sacto will put forth any special effort to make sure he does/doesn't win?
On April 9, 1978, San Antonio’s George Gervin entered the final day of the season leading Denver’s David Thompson by 0.2 points a game, 26.8-26.6. Thompson played an afternoon game and scored 53 first-half points en route to 73 for the game, at the time the second-most in NBA history. Suddenly, Thompson was averaging 27.15 points a game. Gervin needed 58 points that night against the Jazz to win the title — and he got 63 to win the race.
***
Hmm, the row count is off on this page (this should be post 1567, not 67).
And it would have been 15 if not for the 1999 strike. If only they could have gone 50-0...
Totally understandable how he'd be focused on the playoffs. But that raises another point about this mess - none of the players are able to provide their undivided attention to the matter right now. So while it's annoying the timing of the Fisher stuff, it makes sense that it would take some time from the end of the lockout until now to get his ducks in a row. It kinda bugs me a bit more now that Hunter et al got the committee to vote on replacing Fisher now, while they're all busy with other stuff.
Not usually, but given the history between the Lakers and the Kings and the arena situation in Sacto, my guess is that fans there tonight would strongly prefer that Bryant not get the scoring title (except of course the many Lakers fans who will be at the game). Not sure if the Sacto players and coaches care, but due to the circumstances, my guess is Sacto plays pretty hard tonight.
As to Bryant, I think he will come out gunning and if it looks like he can get it, he will go for it. If he is bricking, then he will shut it down in the 2nd q. I would prefer that he not dress for the game, but that is not the way the Mamba rolls.
So Knicks and Sixers also play Saturday, just not sure where officially yet. Pacers/Magic is going to be the NBAtv only series, I'd bet.
This Zach Lowe interview of Tony Allen is pretty great.
MVP: LeBron
COY: Thibs
DPOY: Chandler.
I agree with all 3.
Page 1 goes from post 2 to 101. Page 2 starts on post 103. I'm not going through every page, but there are posting disappearing...
And the edit function appears to be broken.
And the edit function appears to be broken.
The posts are all just misnumbered. Page 1 starts with post 2, page 2 with post 3, etc. This being page 16, starts with post 17, which means post 83 is really post 67 - making 1567 total.
Something got screwed up in the site update last night, apparently.
No, its a numbering problem. Posts are being numbered (pageNum + pagePosition) rather than ((pageNum-1) * 100) + pagePosition).
___
Sam Amick of SI.com has reported that Kobe will not play tonight.
Why does the NBA "scoring title" refer to scoring the most points per game rather than scoring the most total points over the course of the season? Is it simply because 2-digit numbers are easier to process than 4-digit numbers? Whatever the reason, I think that the standard practice of using per-game averages to determine NBA season leaders detracts from the importance of durability. Kobe has been one of the more durable players in the league throughout his career, and by total points scored, he has already won 4 scoring titles rather than 2.
This year Kobe has missed a handful of games and won't lead the league in total points, but he's still 4th in minutes per game, while Luol Deng is 1st. Is there something about having torn wrist ligaments that makes extended in-game rest a bad idea?
COY: Thibs
DPOY: Chandler.
I agree with all 3.
Why Thibs over Pop again? If they were essentially equal last year and Thibs won, and they're essentially equal again this year, it seems more fair to give it to Pop.
Having Jason Kapono as your backup 2 makes extended in-game rest for your starting 2 a very bad idea. The Lakers made a reasonable decision when they let Shannon Brown walk, but they should have replaced Brown with an NBA player. Mike Brown should have just given that job to Goudelock or Ebanks.
Probably the same reason the batting title goes to the guy with the highest AVG rather than most H.
Should MLB batting titles be awarded to the player with the most total hits?
No Rose. I think it's a coinflip between the two. Wouldn't mind either winning.
Agreed. Whoever coaches the Pacers should get mentioned too.
Yeah, sorry. I was too lazy to look it up. But they were a lot better than I expected them to be. I wouldn't guessed they'd be a .500 team.
Damn edit feature...
Missed a bunch of stuff on my preseason predictions, but I do believe that I was the high man on IND *bows*. Granted...they were even better than I thought, but whatever.
I would pick Pop because it doesn't really matter and I think he deserves to have more than one when he retires.
So, who thinks he's going for it? I do.
He's sitting out now apparently.
Considering all the time he has missed, it would have been reasonable to run him for 15-20 minutes tonight as a tune-up (I also liked the idea of giving him a few minutes with Goudelock for Goudelock's sake.) If he would have hit a couple of jumpers during that time, no force in all the universe would have been able to drag him off the court if a few more shots would get him the "title."
It's not so much selfish- though that's probably part of it- the guy is a competition freak. If there's a way to "beat" someone at anything- even a fairly meaningless scoring title- my sense of Kobe is that it is very easy for him to basically ignore any and all reasonable concerns and go for the win. That's who he is, or at least, who he appears to be as an athlete.
Well, it's not just Kobe. Other guys like Robinson mentioned above played hard in the last game going for the scoring title rather than resting for the playoffs (or maybe the Spurs actually needed to win to improve their playoff seeding, I don't remember).
But at this stage in his career, I actually doubt Kobe cares too much. If he was 10 years younger or hadn't already won a few scoring titles (Robinson, for example, was younger and hadn't won any yet), then I think he'd probably go for it.
Ramona Shelburne, Justin Verrier, and Brian Kamenetzky all more or less said that Bryant SHOULD play tonight and go for it (prior to the announcement). Didn't see other media types' hits on it. Guys going for scoring titles in the final game is nothing new, as a couple of guys have pointed out, so I don't think it would have been outrageous if Bryant had. I also think Dagoberto is right; since Bryant has missed 7 of the last 8 games and the Lakers have had three days off, having him go 15-20 for timing, rhythm etc, would have been reasonable. Having him sit also makes plenty of sense. Gasol and Bynum shouldn't dress and apparently will not.
I think the Bulls are a better team... which is also maybe part of the reason I think Pop deserves it. He's a god damn legend.
Is Vogel actually a really good coach, or are people just surprised by Indiana's win total? (I haven't watched them enough to have any idea.)
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