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As do I. Simple, in a good way.
What I was trying to say is that there was a lot more contact on that play than usual, so it would have been worse to not call it. If one guy has the ball and the other guy jumps on him, it should always be a foul. If both guys land on the ball at the same time, well, that's the gray area where the no call is the default.
It is stupid and short sighted. They are not winning the series.
Except for reinjuring himself, possibly more severely, in a situation where the Knicks already basically have no chance, and possibly risking next year's team and all of the added revenue that comes from having Jeremy Lin playing for your team.
Wow. Are we really to the point in our subversion of sports-fandom that we're actually arguing that teams should avoid fielding their best possible team *in the playoffs* because, well, probability isn't on their side and all?
This is why sportswriters use "stat nerds in their mothers' basements" for target practice.
Didn't see this exact play, but I agree with this in general. I've never understood why all rules defining fouls go out the window when the players are on the ground. You can jump on top of people and grab their arms or wrap your own arms around their torso from behind and as long as you have a hand on the ball too it's a jump and not a foul? Um, okay...
Another pet peeve is dual fouls. It's almost always one players fault, and they don't call it until the second player retaliates. Just call the first incident. Don't wait until there's a second.
This is why sportswriters use "stat nerds in their mothers' basements" for target practice.
You know what, on second thought, it makes perfect sense that the Knicks should bring back a guy who has trouble protecting the basketball when he was relatively healthy on one knee to play against a team who consistently devours the Knicks because of the Knicks' problems protecting the ball.
There is almost no scenario where he isn't on the team next year.
They need bodies. He's got the offseason to recover. He needs to play.
If you watch the video, the ref lets the mad scramble for the ball go on for a while, not calling any number of potential fouls. It's only when Smith has the ball wrapped up in his arms and the other guy reaches wraps his arms across Smith's head and tries to dislodge the collected ball that he finally blows the whistle. The video is up at CBSSports.com.
To accomplish...what, exactly?
Last I saw was they were thinking game 4. Has that been moved up? If it's Miami 3-0 at that point, does it change your opinion?
Lin: He's coming back next year, presumably for the full MLE.
I can't evaluate whether it makes sense to bring him back now without a fuller understanding of his health. If the health risks are reasonable, hell yeah it's worth a shot.
Sorry maxwn - I can't imagine.
Nets logo: Not sure yet. I like simple, not yet keen on the black and white scheme + the logo could've looked a little, ummm, sharper?
It looks like it was created by these ####### guys. (Note: Not a real company.)
No, not really. They're not going to win, down 1-0, 3-0, or even at 0-0. They're thoroughly outclassed. Lin needs touches and game experience. He needs to continue to build playing relationships with his teammates. They need bodies. They have no one to handle the ball tonight, unless you count Bibby who's terrible. What's the fear? He aggravates a minor knee injury? They lose WORSE than the other night, as NJ seems to fear? Gimme a break.
Yes. He should if medical clears him. Absolutely.
Isn't that the market they're going to?
Yeah. "New team's Brooklyn logo is too hipster" is a dog-bites-man story if ever there was one.
I have no idea what the Knicks should do, and certainly if they don't think there's a significant risk of injury for Lin, why not have him play. But the downside is a major injury for Lin, which would be bad.
I fail to see how playing in Games 2-4 of this series as opposed to sitting them out will make much of a difference with respect to the above.
They need bodies. They have no one to handle the ball tonight, unless you count Bibby who's terrible.
These arguments are unpersuasive to me in the context of a series the team has absolutely no chance of winning.
What's the fear? He aggravates a minor knee injury? They lose WORSE than the other night, as NJ seems to fear? Gimme a break.
The fear to me is that he re-injures the knee or injures something else by rushing back to play in 3 meaningless games. The initial diagnosis was that he might be back sometime in the second round if the Knicks get that far and as recent as yesterday there were reports that he was unable to get through workouts at full strength. There is no point.
Jon Wurster's run regarding the hipsterfication of the Nets during last week's Best Show was exceptional.
I love the Lin story as much as the next guy, but I'm not yet convinced he's more than a good story and a solid role player. He's not the franchise, for whatever it's worth, that's Carmelo: this is not equivalent to rushing Rose to get back on the court. Lin, OTOH, needs to get on the court. These games are not meaningless: they're real games against the best competition in the league and players like and need to play in these types of games. If he is not cleared to play medically, he shouldn't play. But if he is, what exactly are we waiting for? Are they going to win next year? Aren't next year's games "meaningless" b/c they won't win then, either (b/c they won't)?
And the upside is pretty fantastic for his story: if they somehow win a game or two where he plays well, that just adds to his mystique.
It's win-win-win for Knicks fans. The Nets stink, it's cheap NBA basketball a couple extra subway stops away. They're good, Knicks fans peel off and tickets at MSG are cheaper. And no matter what, Brooklyn is legitimate competition incentivizing idiot Dolan to rationalize his basketball "operation." Unlike their Jersey ancestors, the Brooklyn Nets are an actual threat to the Knicks' virtual monopoly.
1) Nets lose Deron to Dallas
2) Nets fail to sign big free agents to replace
3) Nets season ticket sales are slow in Brooklyn
4) Nets offer Lin a deal that hits the average salary the first two years then escalates in years 3-4.
5) Knicks decide not to match
The only part of that this is unlikely to me is #5. The rest of it seems like a slam-dunk. But betting on the Knicks to have a long-term plan is, I admit, a bad bet.
I'll repeat, there's no scenario* where he isn't on the Knicks next year. Your example and non sequitur don't change that. There are restrictions on the type of deal he can sign and can be offered, and restrictions on the type of mid contract salary escalations. The idea that there would be an offer where the Knicks refuse to match is laughable.
*The Knicks could decide to trade him, I guess.
Is the system still the case that teams have to set their rosters for each playoff round?
No, I think it's the same situation as the regular season. Dress 12 (it was 13 during the regular season, not sure if that carried over to the playoffs or not) of your 15 man roster. No one new can be added to the roster now.
The Knicks would match in a second, I'm pretty sure. Chandler, Amare, and Melo are all currently due to expire in 2015. So basically the Knicks would have one year with all 3 of those guys, plus Lin at an escalated salary, and then they would have much more room to work with.
It's not tanking (which I have no problem with anyway). This is from TODAY'S NYT: "A day after playing one-on-one for the first time, Lin reported soreness in his surgically repaired knee, an indication that he needs more time to recover...He is again running and cutting, although not at full speed. Nor has he been cleared for contact...On Saturday, Lin had a tough time just beating Kenny Atkinson, an assistant, in one-on-one." Even if all Lin is is a solid PG then given how terrible the Knicks' situation is at the 1, he is still extremely valuable for the team there's no point in risking his health to get swept with bigger ratings. I can't see a scenario in which he's cleared to play that doesn't involve skipping steps in the rehab process.
Yes. I'm not sure he wanted to bump him, but he definitely wanted to intimidate him and show him up. Hell, maybe he would've bumped him, Rondo's not the sharpest knife.
I think he's getting two. He's a repeat offender. This season.
I agree with this. It's about risk management. Is the benefit to playing him in this series big enough to justify endangering his future knee health? It's not a black and white he can go or he can't sort of thing. This seems more like Brandon Roy rushing back to play in the playoffs way ahead of schedule. Lin's no Brandon Roy, and I certainly hope he has better knee cartilage, but I don't think it's anything like tanking for the team to prioritize his long-term health, and therefore value to the team, over getting him back against the Heat.
By all reports, Rondo is about the sharpest knife. He's also stubborn as a mule and a bit of a hothead, but dumb he ain't. I think he's getting one. It being the playoffs, I think the league might want to give a player the benefit of the doubt, so his prior seems like it would guarantee him sitting one game. We'll see, though.
Ok well I didn't know that. But he was given a timetable of 4-6 weeks or something at the time of the surgery. I think today would be exactly 4 weeks. I'm not saying that means of course he is ready to play, but he said he was targeting Game 4, which would be nearly 5 weeks. I don't see how it necessarily follows that him coming back in 5 weeks would mean they are definitely skipping steps in the rehab.
Though the quote above is not promising. That does give me pause.
Don't worry, Sam, he's getting at least one game.
My point was that, IMO, "cleared to play"=!"100%" and given his importance to the team's future, even as just a solid PG, combined with the impossibility of the task at hand, there's no point in risking anything.
I don't know about that - I suspect games would have been cancelled with any kind of competent player management involved.
Am pretty sure that Hunter should've been gone a long time ago. Am agnostic on Fisher.
Not sure what to think about Silas and son - or why the team allowed that.
Yeah, I don't subscribe to that part, just the scorched earth thing.
In lighter news, Chris Washburn, restauranteur.
Right. Who needs facts? Just fire everyone and start over!
I can see not making any call (though I think the guy got it right), but that was never a jump ball.
Rivers must get paid to say things like that or something.
Why the hostility on this issue? I didn't even think we had that much of a disagreement. I admit that I was probably slower to come down on Hunter than some. The only thing I have heard in defense of Fisher is that Hunter is bad, which doesn't defend Fisher at all.
This article does a pretty good job explaining the accusations on both sides, although it came out before we started hearing about Fisher skipping union meetings/appearances. Keyon Dooling, James Jones, Matt Bonner, Mo Evans, Roger Mason, Chris Paul, Theo Ratliff, and Etan Thomas (the EC) all voted for him to step down. Are they all ignoring facts? Do they not know some material fact? I really don't understand what facts are favorable to Fisher other than supposedly impeaching the credibility of someone (Hunter) who isn't even at the heart of the case against him.
To be clear, my position is that an independent auditor should evaluate whether Hunter followed the appropriate process and whether he violated his fiduciary duty in matters including, but not limited to, the payments made to firms that employ his family members. If the investigation finds that he misused any funds, he should be fired. Also, Fisher should be investigated for the allegations of side-dealing with management and for dereliction of duties as union president (probably a less complicated investigation). If he did not perform his union duties, he should be fired. What do we disagree about?
Sorry, that's directed at Simmons, not you. Which isn't clear in my post.
Ah, that makes sense. He has an annoying habit of either jumping to conclusions or (at least) not filling the readers in on how he got to the conclusions.
The team wanted the worst record in the league, and weren't shy about getting there?
I don't know if it's as awful as it sounds.
I'm with you on this one. And don't get me wrong - as a fan, I'd love to see him play, I wish he hadn't gotten hurt. However, if he were my golden revenue goose, I'm probably not taking that chance at this stage unless I'm certain he's healthy.
That noted, both Hunter and Fisher quitting may well be a good idea; I think it is worth noting that the Lakers supposedly traded Fisher in part because they did not think he would step aside gracefully and hand the keys to Sessions.
Adding to something JC and a couple of other guys said: VDN put Paul back in with the Clippers down about 20. Paul does not have a pristine health record and came into Game 1 having missed a couple of games with a groin issue. Imagine the crap VDN would be taking if Paul had come in and popped the groin or landed awkwardly and blown a knee: If this doesn't prove Vinny Del Negro is an idiot, what would? A little more than 24 hours after Derrick Rose etc. etc. etc. Instead, of course, the Clippers pulled off probably the best win in franchise history and may be setting themselves up for a playoff run. Maybe VDN just got lucky. Also, maybe I should try to think a little more the next time I second-guess a coach.
Does no one else remember Brandon Roy doing this for their playoff series and never being the same again? If I were a Knicks fan, I would say "No" to Lin coming back like that.
Whether he intended it or not, he put himself in that position and he did bump him, trip or no. Totally fair.
Didn't Roy come back like 10 days after surgery though? I think he had the meniscus totally removed instead of repaired so he could skip the rehab altogether. At least that's my memory, could be wrong.
Yes. It was right after surgery.
And, if Lin has the extensive knee injury history that Lin has, trade him now.
Yeah. I bet that even Rondo *believes* he didn't "intend" it, because he was already re-writing his memory of the event to suppress the stupidity of his loss of control while he was being escorted off the court last night. But there's no way it wasn't intentional. If you trip and fall forward, you don't lead with your bowed up chest.
All things told, probably the best decision possible, even though I'd have loved to see two games.
*When it comes to the leaving the bench rule, they haven't treated it differently.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/41687/the-men-with-no-conscience
i do not think it is possible to better encapsulate what the sixers are right now than what gilbert arenas says in the above.
Edit: Here's the ESPN report, which doesn't have many details as yet.
Agreed. This could turn out to be a really good series.
Dear God, you're going to kill the internet.
Mickey Mouse ######## act. Mickey Mouse ######## organization.
I'd prefer to go out swinging.
<3
I'd prefer to go out swinging.
You want Josh Smith firing up threes because he doesn't care about failing?
Der K - my Walker/Smith comparison goes something like this - obscenely talented; can score, rebound, and pass; takes too many jumpers and three pointers; highly frustrating to fans of their team; always seems like they should be better than they are; effort and engagement are sometimes an issue. It's less about the aesthetics of their games (I don't watch Smith and say "watching him play reminds me of watching Antoine Walker at his peak", per se - it's more the high level (superficial?) characteristics.
Antoine was a better volume (though less efficient) scorer - while Josh is a far superior defensive player.
In my experience with Josh Smith, it doesn't matter if I'd prefer that or not. Playas gonna play.
I lol'd.
I'd prefer to go out swinging.
Amar'e?
When I used to get into "ugliest players in the league" debates with my brother and our friends back in the '90's, Cassell was always one of our consensus picks.
For current players, I've always thought Rondo was kinda funny looking. He's got sort of an alien/insectile look to him, and the Celtics green only makes it worse. When he wears the headband, a small part of me suspects he's doing it to conceal a pair of antennae or a second set of eyes.
Popeye Jones.
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