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Friday, February 03, 2012

OT: NBA Monthly Thread, February 2012

I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the inevitable dominance of the Philadelphia 76ers, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the pharmaceutical industry, allergies, and obscure movies.

Athletic Supporter leads the nation in drifters Posted: February 03, 2012 at 04:46 AM | 1392 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: phillies, twins

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101. smileyy Posted: February 06, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4054749)

Deng is criminally underrated on that team. He's your classic role-playing-starter/glue-guy-wing.

102. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: February 06, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4054750)

Did I italicize something to be argumentative? Maybe.

if carmelo anthony is in the all star game, andre iguodala is an all star.

the interesting thing is that there are some outlets that are calling for jrue holiday to be the 3rd PG on the team. i think deron williams and brandon jennings are much more traditional choices, though. i think i'd give the nod to jennings myself, but depending on how you value defense, i think jrue holiday** is at least in the conversation.

**though, that's not to say he's having all that good of a year. he's really been underwhelming so far, but underwhelming for him is still pretty solid.

STEAGLES, would you mind quantifying 'have a shot'? What percent chance?

somewhere between 10 and 40. midpoint of that would be 25.

103. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: February 06, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4054761)

You and I have entirely different definitions of keeping pace.

i realize that this is a site devoted to a statistical viewpoint, but this is an "i watch the games" type of thing. i see this team game in, game out, and i'm telling you, they're not far behind.

the heat have a definite advantage. for the sixers to win, they have to be almost flawless, but having seen the way this team has played this season, they are capable of playing at a flawless level. they just haven't yet done it against that team.

104. andrewberg Posted: February 06, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4054766)

Scola tried selling the stomp - like he sells everything - but there was still intent there by Love. Everyone's got their buttons that can be pushed though.

I'm totally biased on the subject, let me get that out of the way. I was watching the game with some friends, and one of them commented that it seemed like a fight was going to break out about 3 plays before that. We went back and watched the preceding 5 minutes two more times. Three plays before the stomp, Dalembert mugged Love on a rebound and didn't get a whistle. He turned and shrugged to the ref (which he does too much) and the ref nodded at him as if to say "that was close, maybe next time." Two plays later, there was a sequence where Pek and Love got several offensive boards while Dalembert, Scola, and one other Rocket battled inside. Love got the last board and Scola strafed across both of his arms as he went up, seemingly trying to foul him, and Love made a very awkward put back with no whistle. At that point, he was irate and it was clear that he wasn't going to get any help while getting mugged inside.

Back at the other end, Scola got the ball with his back to the basket, turned into Love and fell down intentionally while Love slapped the ball away. That's when Love turned around, had his foot right above Scola (who had been down for 4 or 5 seconds at that point right under Love's feet), hesitated, then continued running. It seemed as if he figured there was no reason to take any effort whatsoever to avoid Scola. The camera angle that has been shown on replays makes it look as if he was staring at Scola directly, but there was another angle that made it look like he was already looking up and would have seen Scola in his peripheral vision. I still think he saw him and decided to keep running, I think he stepped on him intentionally, and I think a 1-2 game suspension is warranted. At the same time, I'm glad Scola got stepped on, and I think it is an exaggeration to call it a "stomp." My two cents.

105. andrewberg Posted: February 06, 2012 at 02:59 PM (#4054772)

i realize that this is a site devoted to a statistical viewpoint, but this is an "i watch the games" type of thing. i see this team game in, game out, and i'm telling you, they're not far behind.

I watch the Heat a lot, and I watched that Philly game. Through three quarters, I guess it would be fair to say that they "kept pace," but Miami was not doing the things that allow them to pull away from most teams. In the late 3rd and especially early 4th, they turned up the defensive pressure (which they do in spurts during most games, often deciding the outcome) and started making jump shots. If Philly keeping pace with Miami on cruise control and not getting hot, that's not terribly impressive.

106. madvillain Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4054779)

Chicago beat Miami 4-0 in the regular season last year. Regular season battles between the elite aren't quite meaningless, but they certainly aren't meaningful.

Maybe the Sixers got some "mental breakthrough" that they can hang with the Heat, but I doubt it.

__________________

Kevin Love suspended 2 games for his face stomp. My fantasy team sure can find the darndest ways to miss games. [edit: moses beat me to this but it's on the last page so leaving it here]

__________________

There is no timetable for B-diddy's return. Lin has been named the starting PG in NYC.

107. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4054823)

I watch the Heat a lot, and I watched that Philly game. Through three quarters, I guess it would be fair to say that they "kept pace," but Miami was not doing the things that allow them to pull away from most teams. In the late 3rd and especially early 4th, they turned up the defensive pressure (which they do in spurts during most games, often deciding the outcome) and started making jump shots. If Philly keeping pace with Miami on cruise control and not getting hot, that's not terribly impressive.

miami did start making jumpshots, but those jumpshots were 20' out from the basket, and they were all contested by a sixer defender. if those are the kinds of shots miami is taking, i think you can live with the results

but here's the thing, coming out of the half, the sixers held the heat starters without a point for the first 5:08 of the 3rd quarter. that wasn't the heat beating the heat, it was the sixers shutting the heat down. it was something the sixers have done throughout the entire season, and the fact that they were able to do it to the bulls and to the heat in consecutive games gives me quite a bit of hope for the team's chances in the playoffs.

but when the sixers couldn't take advantage of that drought to build their own lead, the game changed, the heat got hot, and in 4 minutes in the 4th quarter, the heat got up 20.

still, there was something there. and, though the roster is largely the same, the sixers record indicates that they're not the same team they were when the heat's run of dominance over them started.

and, though i hesitate to say this, there were extenuating circumstances in both games they've played this year.

108. andrewberg Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:48 PM (#4054826)

miami did start making jumpshots, but those jumpshots were 20' out from the basket, and they were all contested by a sixer defender. if those are the kinds of shots miami is taking, i think you can live with the results

but here's the thing, coming out of the half, the sixers held the heat starters without a point for the first 5:08 of the 3rd quarter. that wasn't the heat beating the heat, it was the sixers shutting the heat down.

You are making the argument against the Sixers. They were locked in, playing really good defense, and the Miami offense eventually overcame it so completely that they won by 20+ and there was nothing to be done (you can live with it). Saying the team is good enough to beat Lebron if he can't buy a midrange jumper is like saying you could easily beat Wilt if he was 6'2.

109. Into the Void Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4054836)

and, though i hesitate to say this, there were extenuating circumstances in both games they've played this year.

One of which was they lost to the Heat by 21 when Wade wasn't even playing.

110. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: February 06, 2012 at 04:12 PM (#4054852)

One of which was they lost to the Heat by 21 when Wade wasn't even playing.

because the heat were so much worse without him? 5 of the heat's 6 losses came with him in the lineup, and the heat were 8-1 with him on the sidelines.

anyway, the extenuating circumstances i'm speaking of would be that the first loss was on the second night of a back to back, following the sixers best win of the year, when they came back from a double digit deficit against atlanta to win by 14. also, there was the little thing about spencer hawes being out for the game, and his replacement getting knocked out of the game in the 3rd quarter.

and the second loss is a much weaker argument. they were playing on a day's rest, coming off another huge win (this time by 16 over chicago). maybe lag was a factor, but it's gonna be a factor all year. and like the first game, hawes was out, and again, eurogoon was not a factor. that's not really any different from the situation the team's played with for the last month, so it's not much.

but it's something. and for now, i'm gonna cling to it.

111. Der_K is feeling better now. Posted: February 06, 2012 at 04:37 PM (#4054870)

I don't think Ryan Anderson should be an All-Star, for what it's worth. Not enough track record*, defense, playing time. Having said that, I love some Ryan Anderson.

* Yes, I know he's been a great per minute guy over his career - that's part of why I love some Ryan Anderson.

Don't have my own list to offer in response, just yet. Maybe I'll whip one up later.

112. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4054908)

Regular season battles between the elite aren't quite meaningless, but they certainly aren't meaningful.

Agreed - and I'd say this is even more true than usual this season.

but it's something. and for now, i'm gonna cling to it.

Apparently.

113. smileyy Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:23 PM (#4054918)

miami did start making jumpshots, but those jumpshots were 20' out from the basket, and they were all contested by a sixer defender. if those are the kinds of shots miami is taking, i think you can live with the results

There's that, but there's also the fact that Miami has players who are much better than NBA average at that. Its not a consistent winning strategy for the Heat, but its also something that they have in their arsenal.

Sure, its great to be able to force the Heat into that, living with the results means that you're going to lose sometimes. I think that game says something about both the Heat and the Sixers, in terms of how good they both are.

114. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:44 PM (#4054937)

but it's something. and for now, i'm gonna cling to it.

Apparently.

let me rephrase that. in the last 7 days, they've beaten orlando, chicago and atlanta. they lost to miami. they lost to miami twice. they lost to miami twice by a combined 41 points.

they're still better than every other team in the east.

115. robinred

Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:54 PM (#4054946)

they're still better than every other team in the east.

Well, the problem with that assertion is that in that framework, the Miami losses then have to carry the same weight: if the 76ers beating Orlando, Chicago, and Atlanta means that they are "better than every other team in the East" than their getting schooled by Miami repeatedly means that Miami is far, far better than than 76ers are and the 76ers have pretty much no chance against Miami in a best-of-7.

The 76ers are better than I thought they were, and as noted, it would appear that their combo of youth/depth/continuity helps them in the competitive ecology of the lockout schedule. They are going to have a good record--I said that after about five games. You said it in pre-season and deserve credit for it.

But OTOH, there is no specific reason that I can see to believe at this point that the 76ers have anything more than a "youneverknow" chance against Miami in a postseason series.

116. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Posted: February 06, 2012 at 06:18 PM (#4054968)

and, though i hesitate to say this, there were extenuating circumstances in both games they've played this year.

There were extenuating circumstances in some of the Sixers' wins over good teams, too. For example...

let me rephrase that. in the last 7 days, they've beaten orlando, chicago and atlanta. they lost to miami. they lost to miami twice.

Would Deng being out for Chicago be an extenuating circumstance? Orlando, clearly a worse team than we all expected, was going through a stretch where Hedo was hurt and they didn't reach 90 points in six games and couldn't pass 70 points three of those times, once against the Hornets. Extenuating circumstance? (And really, nobody believes Atlanta is anything more than a good regular season team.)

I'm all for Crazy Steagles joy, but you're making an awful lot of excuses for your team while ignoring some very good scheduling fortune.

More good fortune for the Sixers: What should be a tough stretch of home games has the Lakers and Clippers on the third game of long road trips, with the Spurs on the 2nd of their road trip, and Philly gets days off between each game. They they hit the road to Cleveland, Charlotte and Orlando. Even the good teams on this stretch aren't title contenders (though I could be wrong about the Clippers, for chrissakes). Is 5-1 a reasonable expectation?

117. Moses Taylor lost his pants to a pair of nines Posted: February 06, 2012 at 06:18 PM (#4054969)

I'm not sure which of Atlanta, Indiana, Boston or Philly is the 3rd best team in the East. It's too early to know, too many injuries, too many oddities with the schedule. Philly is obviously in the drivers' seat for the 3 seed and has played the best so far. Like a lot of people, I expected Atlanta to fade with Horford out but they haven't. Indiana has the 2nd most road wins in the NBA (one behind the Bulls). And the Celtics still have a lot of talent and experience, even if they look old as #### at times. I just can't write them off from winning the Atlantic yet. They're only 3.5 behind Philly and they haven't played each other. It's very unlikely they win the division, partly because of the schedule and their age, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Orlando looked like the 3rd best team for a little while there, but crashed (that win in Indiana Saturday was pretty damn good though, considering their injury issues). A lot can happen before the playoffs.

118. Der_K is feeling better now. Posted: February 06, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4054976)

Philly has been lucky/fortunate in a number of ways this year - hitting a fluky percentage of their twos, their opponents struggles from the line, played a weak schedule...
They're still a top three team in the conference.

119. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: February 06, 2012 at 07:03 PM (#4055009)

Is 5-1 a reasonable expectation?

allowing for any random schedule losses, i'd say 5-1 would be my expectation.

Would Deng being out for Chicago be an extenuating circumstance?

yep. almost every team is going to have something to point at for every game they play this season, but what separates the wheat from the chaff is whether teams can manage to overcome their handicaps to thrive despite them.

120. Jimmy P Posted: February 06, 2012 at 07:12 PM (#4055015)

Some hedge fund manager is trying to get an arena built in Seattle. It could happen, but Seattle has a law that any stadium built with public money must turn a profit for the city.

121. andrewberg Posted: February 06, 2012 at 07:52 PM (#4055028)

Jimmy, I'm not familiar with the law you mentioned. There was a landmark case in WA law regarding the bond issuance for Safeco, but that had to do with whether the state properly delegated bond issuing authority to the county, and was essentially an end run around the council's approval of the funding.

Even if a law like that exists (and I'm not sure how one would measure the profit), I am sure it can be bypassed by referendum, and I don't think it would apply to revenue generated for specific expenditures. They are discussing some private funding and some public money to come from ticket and transit taxes.

122. madvillain Posted: February 06, 2012 at 08:13 PM (#4055040)

Even if a law like that exists (and I'm not sure how one would measure the profit), I am sure it can be bypassed by referendum, and I don't think it would apply to revenue generated for specific expenditures. They are discussing some private funding and some public money to come from ticket and transit taxes.

This is from the Seattle PI today:

He [Mayor McGinn] added that any offer also must honor the will of Seattle voters, who in 2006 overwhelmingly approved an initiative that says the city must make a profit on any investment it makes in a sports arena.

FWIW, this guy, a noted opponent of socialized stadiums (and one of my favorite causes as well, damn Yankees swindled NYC, the Marlins swindled Mia, etc), says that there is no way a stadium gets built without some sort of "going against the spirit" of the 2006 law.

My feelings are that a) Key arena is untenable as a pro basketball stadium. Quite a few colleges have nicer arenas than Key. It's a legit problem. And b) down by the other stadiums makes perfect sense for a new basketball arena. If they built it in Bellevue I'll be disgusted, even if it comes with closer to zero public financing. I can see an argument that the revenue from the increased business generated by having an NBA team in Seattle would be worth a certain amount of public financing. What that number is, I have no idea, and I doubt anyone on either side is going to give us a serious answer.

123. andrewberg Posted: February 06, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4055042)

Also, the funding initiative would almost certainly go through King County rather than the city itself. I would need to read up on the mechanics of the bond measures, but I really don't think that fluff is going to hold up. Thanks for the link though.

124. madvillain Posted: February 06, 2012 at 08:31 PM (#4055052)

Also, the funding initiative would almost certainly go through King County rather than the city itself. I would need to read up on the mechanics of the bond measures, but I really don't think that fluff is going to hold up. Thanks for the link though.

Given that Seattle is King County's largest taxpayer, I'd be shocked if the county legislature decided to play any sort of hardball with the city. If the county says, "we're gonna float a bond for this and put it on the ballot" (why everything goes to direct vote here is asinine and a disturbing trend in our democracy towards polity, but that's for a political theory class discussion), I'd expect the city to invoke every legal measure it has to stop it.

Anyways, I really don't see how this stadium gets built anytime soon. The county and city are broke. They just had a number of new transit taxes via ballot initiative (tolls, tabs, etc) on the ballot in November. Using NEW TRANSIT TAXES to pay for an arena? I don't know any sane pol that would touch that one with a ten foot poll right now. Unless the public sentiment is so overwhelmingly for it -- and why would it be, it's not like the city is getting the Sonics back, but a hapless King's franchise.

125. smileyy Posted: February 06, 2012 at 08:50 PM (#4055069)

I think the argument in favor of the basketball stadium would be to make the stadium district and all that infrastructure a year-round draw and moneymaker. There's nothing there from January through mid-March, and only a handful of MLS and Seahaws games the rest of the time outside of baseball season. I could see adding regular basketball and hockey commercial traffic down there being a significant contributor to growth in that area.

126. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:10 PM (#4055080)

Melo left the Knicks game with a groin injury. Amar'e is already out due to his brother's death. There's a good chance the Knicks don't crack 50.

127. smileyy Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4055081)

Or the Knicks post their best offensive efficiency of the year.

128. Into the Void Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:22 PM (#4055085)

Jeremy Lin gonna drop 50.

129. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:24 PM (#4055086)

Or Jeremy Lin is just going to keep the offense humming despite the fact that he has absolutely no left hand. Wtf.

130. Der_K is feeling better now. Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:26 PM (#4055088)

Knicks up 15 halfway thru the 2nd.

131. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:29 PM (#4055090)

Lin would probably have 6 assists already too if Jeffries was capable of making layups.

132. Moses Taylor lost his pants to a pair of nines Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4055095)

Rose left Bulls game with what looks like a stiff back. It has been bothering him lately. He has 4pts in 10 minutes but Bulls still up 25. Nets are undermanned and undertalented. Their New York jerseys look good though.

133. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:45 PM (#4055099)

Do you guys think Jeremy Lin should be All-NBA 1st team or 2nd team?

134. tshipman

Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4055102)

Do you guys think Jeremy Lin should be All-NBA 1st team or 2nd team?

2nd--after the starting five for the 76ers.

135. madvillain Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:58 PM (#4055110)

Rose left Bulls game with what looks like a stiff back. It has been bothering him lately. He has 4pts in 10 minutes but Bulls still up 25. Nets are undermanned and undertalented. Their New York jerseys look good though.

Quintessential lockout injury. Stern took more from the players than they realized -- he got their health as well.

136. madvillain Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:03 PM (#4055114)

Steve Novak is the new Lin.

137. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4055118)

Listening to the 76ers radio feed, I'm beginning to understand Steagles better. It's not just him, it's the entire Philadelphia fanbase.

138. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:13 PM (#4055123)

Lou Williams is on fire.

139. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:15 PM (#4055124)

Ouch. Bryant misses his last 8 shots, and both the Lakers' weakness and the Sixers' strength come to the fore. For all their size (the Lakers absolutely owned the boards), they just can't keep up with the younger Sixers. I expected the Lakers to lose, but letting it slip away really hurts.

We'll see if the Sixers can finish them off. 90 seconds left.

140. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:22 PM (#4055133)

Well, that stung.

This sounds stupid, but it's been a long time since I've rooted for a mediocre team. It kinda sucks.

141. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:59 PM (#4055148)

Listening to the 76ers radio feed, I'm beginning to understand Steagles better. It's not just him, it's the entire Philadelphia fanbase.

calling him bipolar would be an understatement. you really should have listened to him when the sixers were 3-13 at the start of last season. they don't have a color guy in the booth, so he would just spiral downward in despair throughout the games because there was noone else on air to break his train of thought. it was really something.

anyway, that was an amazing game. both team's strengths and both team's weaknesses were on full display, but lou just got hot at the right time, and the sixers just had the defensive edge to end the game.

i know it's an almost absurd possibility since it would have to happen in the finals, but i would absolutely love to see a 7 game series between these teams. i think the juxtaposition would just be fascinating. age vs. youth. size vs. speed. 3 stars vs. no stars. strength vs. weakness. weakness vs. strength.

27 assists vs. 4 turnovers tonight. they led the league last year in assist-turnover ratio. they started this season on a historic pace for turnovers per game and per possession. and somehow, they're continuing to improve at it. 22 to 6 against orlando. 18 to 6 against miami. 25 to 7 against atlanta. it's just absurd how infrequently they turn the ball over.

and i just ran a quick query through play index. the sixers were outrebounded by 28 tonight. since 1985, there have only been 2 games that have been won with a worse rebounding margin. interestingly, both games came against san antonio, once in '92 against HOU, and once in '94 against GSW.

142. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:59 PM (#4055149)

Jeremy Lin is a darkhorse MVP candidate. No, he's the favorite.

143. madvillain Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4055153)

Jeremy Lin is a darkhorse MVP candidate. No, he's the favorite.

Unreal. His game seriously reminds me of a poor man's Deron Williams. He does a little bit of everything well and really can find guys in the pick and role. Heck, he can have a 10 year career if he plays half as well as he has the last two games.

144. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:10 PM (#4055160)

[143] If he ever learns to dribble with his left-hand...the Knicks may never lose again.

145. nick swisher hygiene Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:11 PM (#4055161)

143--wd it not be fair to say the man now owns the two greatest performances in Asian-American hoops history?

edit: the 8 TO are a little much, but damn, the kid played 45 minutes...

146. madvillain Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:23 PM (#4055171)

Lin after he sealed the game with a shot clock beating 3.

147. Der_K is feeling better now. Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:29 PM (#4055175)

You know, neither of these games have featured his best statline of the year. I mentioned it last month, but - in his one D-league game - he was a 28-11-12 in 44 minutes.
Oh, that three cited in 146 was his first of the year.

148. andrewberg Posted: February 07, 2012 at 12:40 AM (#4055224)

Man, the Lakers did not look very good in the second half. I guess it is important to consider how many teams are getting ground down into being pretty bleh over the schedule. Even if the Sixers aren't my idea of a platonic contender, it's possible that the rest of the league's attrition puts them near the top.

149. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 07, 2012 at 01:30 AM (#4055230)

And so it begins...

RT @SebastianPruiti: didn't [Lin] have like 9 turnovers? Didn't know we are allowed to just wish away turnovers because of fatigue.

150. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 07, 2012 at 01:55 AM (#4055236)

The Wizards continue to delight.

151. CFBF Hates Hyphens Posted: February 07, 2012 at 02:14 AM (#4055239)

Corey Brewer's father has died, on the off chance anyone here was wondering why he didn't play in tonight's game.

Also, and I hate to ruin the solemnity of the previous sentence with such vulgar concerns, but Corey is shooting 44 percent from three this season? Huh?

152. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 02:26 AM (#4055243)

The Wizards continue to delight.

Can't... stop... laughing... at... this...

153. Athletic Supporter leads the nation in drifters Posted: February 07, 2012 at 02:41 AM (#4055246)

[150, 152] Me neither.

154. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 02:51 AM (#4055247)

Jeremy Lin is trending on Twitter. #Linsanity!

155. CFBF Hates Hyphens Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:33 AM (#4055250)

It's John Wall's resigned disgust that really makes the GIF.

156. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:38 AM (#4055251)

The "goaltend" by Aldridge that sent the Blazers/OKC game to overtime: http://t.co/FKFRjGea To be clear, the Blazers did a poor job of execution in overtime, but the game shouldn't have gotten there to begin with.

157. Der_K is feeling better now. Posted: February 07, 2012 at 08:55 AM (#4055283)

150,2,3: This is old, but probably still my favorite of that type.

158. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 07, 2012 at 09:03 AM (#4055284)

[156] It was the wrong call, but I wouldn't kill the refs on it.

[157] Soon as that clip started I got flashbacks to the Dark(er) Days.

159. Jimmy P Posted: February 07, 2012 at 11:40 AM (#4055419)

[156] It was the wrong call, but I wouldn't kill the refs on it.

Yeah, it's not like it cost them the game or anything

160. robinred

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4055463)

You Tube footage of 7-5 Senegalese Mamadou Ndiaye playing HS Hoops:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/7-foot-5-mamadou-ndiaye-prep-highlights-absolutely-183735847.html

He is a junior, and plays for a school called Brethren Christian in Huntington Beach. From the looks of the size/skill of the other players, at least in this game, it is not exactly fast competition, but his team has lost five games, according to the piece.

161. andrewberg Posted: February 07, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4055473)

I hope this Mamadou Ndiaye is actually the same one who played in the NBA 10 years ago but slightly taller.

162. Crispix Attacks Posted: February 07, 2012 at 12:35 PM (#4055500)

I hope we get another Makhtar Ndiaye as well. He was pretty scary for the Tar Heels. (at ages 23 and 24, I now discover)

163. robinred

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4055507)

I scanned the comments posted below the footage; there were a few people saying that they thought the guy was actually in his 20s, rather than being legitimately high-school age.

164. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 07, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4055536)

Melo out 1-2 weeks, so...uh...no pressure, Lin.

165. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: February 07, 2012 at 01:31 PM (#4055585)

just 1 quick comment for now, on an off-day.

the sixers now have a better strength of schedule than the bulls.

166. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 07, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4055586)

The Rookie-Sophomore Game is going to be played playground-style, with Barkley and Shaq picking teams. Seems like a fun way to liven up a largely irrelevant game.

167. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 07, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4055595)

[166] That is awesome.

168. kpelton Posted: February 07, 2012 at 02:35 PM (#4055658)

Re: 120, etc.: There have been multiple past Seattle arena proposals that have worked under I-91. It sets a higher standard for private funding than the typical arena deal, but not impossibly so.

169. Moses Taylor lost his pants to a pair of nines Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:14 PM (#4055706)

Quintessential lockout injury. Stern took more from the players than they realized -- he got their health as well.

At first, I thought this was a ridiculous comment. Rose tweaked his back Saturday, had an off day, and then had spasms last night. Nothing about that stretch is unusual for a normal season. But after the game, I saw this:

KCJHoop: DRose said back has been bothering him for awhile. Said he's not flexible and when tendinitis flares in legs, it forces him to compensate.

So let's see, we can now add tendinitis and back spasms to his toe sprain/turf toe/whatever the #### it is. These are definitely starting to add up, and the schedule isn't doing him any favors. I wonder how the league will react if guys want to skip the All-Star break - well, I know how they'll react, but I wish Rose could get the break. And on a side note, it's a little worrying to see how many of these things Rose is starting to deal with at such a young age. I'd hate to see him have recurring injuries that rob him of athleticism so young (this is obviously not a concern yet, but, you know...)

The "goaltend" by Aldridge that sent the Blazers/OKC game to overtime: http://t.co/FKFRjGea To be clear, the Blazers did a poor job of execution in overtime, but the game shouldn't have gotten there to begin with.

The furthest ref from the play called it. Aldridge may have gotten it before it hit the backboard - it is really hard to tell - but if he did, it hit his hand again after it hit the backboard so it sure looks like goaltending from a distance in real time. I may have posted something once wondering how, and if, the schedule (and lack of preseason) would impact officiating. Based on a biased mental review I just performed right now, I don't think the officiating has been that bad this year; at least it's not any worse than the last couple, IMO. Violet Davis did the Bulls/Nets game last night, and she's still terrible.

the sixers now have a better strength of schedule than the bulls.

Indeed, based on opp winning %*. Of course, the Bulls have played 2 more games and 8! more road games (they've played more road games than Philly has home games), so SOS doesn't tell the whole story this year. The Bulls are an amazing 12-5 on the road; they wrap up this 9 game trip with stops in NO, CHA, and BOS. 2-1 is probably worst case scenario (hell, the Bulls could probably rest Rose those first 2 and still win). Banking the road wins early, in spite of their injuries, will be something that's going to help the Bulls secure HCA.

BTW, after last night's game against the Nets "defense", the Bulls are now first in ORtg. That's...unbelievable.

*Based on bb-ref's SOS rating; Hollinger's still has the Bulls as slightly better.

170. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:24 PM (#4055715)

Can't stop watching the McGee thing.

171. Moses Taylor lost his pants to a pair of nines Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:29 PM (#4055720)

Injury stuff - Gallo has a chip fracture in his foot. And Billups hurt his achilles.

172. Don't want the truth; just wanna see some dingers Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4055721)

I hope we get another Makhtar Ndiaye as well. He was pretty scary for the Tar Heels. (at ages 23 and 24, I now discover)

The scariest thing about him was making up racial slurs. Good gosh, did I hate that Guthridge era of Tar Heel teams.

173. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4055727)

Can't stop watching the McGee thing.

I've watched it at least 50 times. I'm developing new favorite parts. At first I was partial to McGee's gait as he speeds off screen, then it was Wall's reaction and now it's the Raptor defender initially chasing after McGee only to realize "wtf, that guy's team still has the ball"

174. Der_K is feeling better now. Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:37 PM (#4055729)

(Ndiaye) Hated by both schools he played for - neat trick. He's an agent now.

175. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:38 PM (#4055730)

Indeed, based on opp winning %*. Of course, the Bulls have played 2 more games and 8! more road games (they've played more road games than Philly has home games), so SOS doesn't tell the whole story this year. The Bulls are an amazing 12-5 on the road; they wrap up this 9 game trip with stops in NO, CHA, and BOS. 2-1 is probably worst case scenario (hell, the Bulls could probably rest Rose those first 2 and still win). Banking the road wins early, in spite of their injuries, will be something that's going to help the Bulls secure HCA.

BTW, after last night's game against the Nets "defense", the Bulls are now first in ORtg. That's...unbelievable.

*Based on bb-ref's SOS rating; Hollinger's still has the Bulls as slightly better.

there are a ton of bad teams in the east. i could be wrong, but i don't think the bulls have beaten a team with a winning record since they beat boston (who had a losing record at the time) 14 games ago. if you want to go back to the last time they beat a team that had a winning record as of the opening tip, you'd have to go back 19 games, to january 6 against orlando.

they've won a lot of road games, yeah, but they've won a lot of road games against a lot of bad teams.

[Tom Moore] Tom Moore: Until Lou Williams last night, Sixers were just 2nd team in NBA shot-clock era (began 1954) that went 8 games without 20-point scorer. 3 hours ago

Tom Moore: #Sixers have committed 42 turnovers in past 6 games (7.0 avg). That is lowest 6-game TO total since NBA began tracking in 1970-71. 3 hours ago

Tom Moore: #Sixers Monday became just the sixth NBA team since 2000-01 to win a game when out-rebounded by 25 or more. about 5 hours ago

Tom Moore: #Sixers are on pace to break NBA record for fewest turnovers. Averaging 10.7, with league mark 11.4 by 2005-06 Pistons. yesterday

on a less irreverent note, spencer hawes is doubtful for wednesday's game against the spurs due to soreness in his back flaring up again. elton brand is probable after missing the last two games with a jammed finger.

doug collins has specifically stated that he will not start both rookies in the same game, so if both brand and hawes cannot go, tony battie will get the start. the guy held his own against dwight howard, but i'd still really like for him to not start against tim duncan.

176. Moses Taylor lost his pants to a pair of nines Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4055731)

Scratch that on Gallo's foot:

KBergCBS: Gallo's chip fracture deemed to be from previous injury, probably before his career began, team says. He had CT scan and MRI today.

Ok, then.

177. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4055736)

I've watched it at least 50 times. I'm developing new favorite parts. At first I was partial to McGee's gait as he speeds off screen, then it was Wall's reaction and now it's the Raptor defender initially chasing after McGee only to realize "wtf, that guy's team still has the ball"

McGee's gait is absolutely my favorite part - if only we could read his internal dialogue as he was headed downcourt. I also love Wall extending his arm at the very end as if to say, "Welcome back to the play, Javale." The Wizards have to be the most entertaining crappy team in recent memory.

178. madvillain Posted: February 07, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4055738)

So let's see, we can now add tendinitis and back spasms to his toe sprain/turf toe/whatever the #### it is. These are definitely starting to add up, and the schedule isn't doing him any favors.

There has been a noticeable lack of him attempting to dunk on guys this year. Even on that play against the Knicks instead of rim rocking it he just sorta laid it in over the hoop.

I hope it's just Rose trying to be smart with his body, but I have a feeling he's hurting more than he lets on. The back thing doesn't really worry me that much though. I had back spasms after an intramural game when I was 22 so badly that I couldn't even leave the bed that day. 24 hours later I was 90% better, a week later it wasn't even a thought. Never happened again.

Obviously Rose's case is complicated by the insane schedule load, but he's young, it's not anything more than a muscle tightening hopefully and he'll be good to go. They should rest him against NOLA. CJ Watson would probably start for half a dozen teams, he's a quality backup.

It's a little more worrisome about this on and off tendinitis. I know Bulls fans freaked out after he was drafted and he played only a little summer league because of it. Hasn't been mentioned since, well, until yesterday.

____________________

I've been harsh on Wall, but man, what a crap team he has. Hard to throw a 19 year old guy into that mess and say "lead". One thing about the Bull and Rose is that they were mediocre, not bottom of the league horrible, when they drafted him, that helped his development IMO, especially that first playoff series against the Celtics. "Learning how to win" is a dumb cliche, but sometimes it can be overlooked how important atmosphere is to a young player's development, especially for someone like Wall, who could go either way it seems.

179. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: February 07, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4055806)

Janis Carr: Lakers confirm they have waived Derrick Caracter so roster is down to 14. Making room for Arenas? Sessions? 1 minute ago

180. robinred

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4055825)

@ 179--

Maybe Jonny Flynn. I would rather have Dragic than Flynn, myself but perhaps Dragic is unavailable.

Also, I would have cut Kapono.

181. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: February 07, 2012 at 05:49 PM (#4055854)

Bill Simmons spontaneously ejaculates.

(It's an interview with Larry Bird)

182. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 05:54 PM (#4055859)

Big Kobe day on ESPNLA.com (almost everyday is Kobe day in LA), with Bird saying he'd pick Kobe over Lebron, and Kobe's interview on how he and Shaq would never have lasted.

183. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4055869)

I may have asked this before, but how do people (Laker fans especially) feel about the idea of Kobe as the greatest Laker ever? As best I can tell, Magic seems to be the consensus pick (pre-Kobe). I've seen a couple analysts mention that they still would take Magic over Kobe but since almost everyone agrees that Magic was a bad defender and Kobe a great one isn't Kobe the easy choice between the two?

184. robinred

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:01 PM (#4055870)

The two Kobe posts at present have 1283 and 1961 comments, respectively.

185. andrewberg Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4055871)

The Bird interview was actually really interesting. The historical stuff is just fun to hear from someone who was in the games (and his recollection is really good), and his contemporary thinking is interesting because he's a guy who knows a lot about the game, has a unique perspective, and communicates it pretty well.

Oh, and he talks about Rubio revolutionizing the game, so that helps too.

186. robinred

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4055874)

I've seen a couple analysts mention that they still would take Magic over Kobe but since almost everyone agrees that Magic was a bad defender and Kobe a great one isn't Kobe the easy choice between the two?

Depends on how you define "greatest Laker."

187. andrewberg Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:03 PM (#4055878)

Bird said he'd pick Kobe based on his dedication and obsessiveness in practice, but also said Lebron is a better player by a mile and more entertaining. If that's a slight, it's a pretty mild one.

188. Athletic Supporter leads the nation in drifters Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4055879)

I saw this discussion going around a bit and never heard Jerry West mentioned once. I think he has to be considered.

189. robinred

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4055887)

If that's a slight, it's a pretty mild one.

Who do you think said it was a "slight?"

Not going to listen, but here is the quote in the link:

"Well, probably Kobe, because of the fact that ... well, of course he wouldn't have been shooting as much as he does now ... but his desire to win, his dedication, to always get better, uh, and he's just, he's just tough," Bird said. "He's just a tough cat.

"But, if you want to have fun, like I did with Bill Walton, play with LeBron. It would have probably been more fun to play with LeBron, but if you want to win and win and win, it's Kobe. Not that LeBron's not a winner, just that [Kobe's] mindset is to go into every practice, every game, to get better."

___

Assuming this is accurate, he actually manages to take subtle digs at both of them. Also, "Win and win and win" is not exactly just "his dedication and obsessiveness in practice."

Between the milestone, Hollinger pimping him in chat today (Hollinger has a little HaterBoy in him), Kobe's crappy/gunning 4th quarter in Philly, and the Bird interview, I am guessing Abbott has a Magnum Opus coming our way soon.

Actual Lakers fans, are, of course, more worried about getting a little roster help than they are about these questions.

190. robinred

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:12 PM (#4055890)

I think he has to be considered.

Yep.

191. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:13 PM (#4055893)

Speaking of Jerry West and Kobe/Shaq, I just read West by West (which was quite good and bracingly honest), and he stated in the book that he's pretty sure, had he stuck around, that he could have diffused things between Kobe and Shaq and kept the rift from being as big or as public. Do Lakers fans think that's true, or were things between the two doomed, no matter how much regard they had for the Logo?

192. smileyy Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4055897)

I wonder if there's an observer's bias on Bird's part, because he and LeBron play the same position (though I imagine they'd be compatible on the court).

193. smileyy Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4055899)

[191] Speaking completely out of my ass, I think Shaq's ego and (lack of) work ethic would have doomed that relationship. Shaq played so well in the media that it obscured the fact that it was Shaq's problem, not Kobe's.

194. robinred

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:24 PM (#4055905)

wonder if there's an observer's bias on Bird's part, because he and LeBron play the same position (though I imagine they'd be compatible on the court).

Jordan said something similar about Bryant and James about a year or so ago, at a camp, so IMO no. I assume it is still up on youtube.

I think guys like Jordan and Bird probably appreciate/respect Bryant's work ethic and visibly nasty competitive streak, and that makes them favor Bryant to a degree in such comparisons.

As to Shaq and Kobe, West is about the only guy that both of them would listen to, but I don't think so, no. It's understandable that West would believe that of himself, however.

195. Der_K is feeling better now. Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:27 PM (#4055907)

Some numbers for your perusal - hardly comprehensive.

West: ELO Rater 15, Career PER: 22.9, Career PER(playoffs): 23.1, WS: 162.6, WS/48: .213, WS(p): 26.7, WS/48(p): .203
Magic: ELO Rater 6, Career PER: 24.1, Career PER(playoffs): 22.9, WS: 155.8, WS/48: .225, WS(p): 32.6, WS/48(p): .208
Kobe: ELO Rater 66, Career PER: 23.6, Career PER(playoffs): 22.3, WS: 159.9, WS/48: .187, WS(p): 26.8, WS/48(p): .158

That doesn't settle anything.

196. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:29 PM (#4055911)

I think guys like Jordan and Bird probably appreciate/respect Bryant's work ethic and visibly nasty competitive streak, and that makes them favor Bryant to a degree in such comparisons.

Also, ringzzzzz.

197. robinred

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:31 PM (#4055916)

Also, ringzzzzz.

Perhaps. My guess is Jordan and Bird have both caught parts of LeBron's playoff exit games on the flat screen the last three years.

198. Athletic Supporter leads the nation in drifters Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:36 PM (#4055920)

199. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:38 PM (#4055921)

Seems like the biggest thing missing from the above (certainly noting the "hardly comprehensive" disclaimer) is defense. General perception of Magic's defense is that it was, uh, not good. West and Kobe are both generally viewed as plus defenders. I know that WS incorporates defense from box score stats, but many (including me) view that as extremely shaky.

Which is why I look at the above and think "how could Magic Johnson possibly be better than Kobe?" I'm not saying there is no way, but...it just seems unlikely.*

*-I was born in '86 and have no pre '92 NBA memories so maybe that would change things.

200. robinred

Posted: February 07, 2012 at 06:41 PM (#4055926)

saunders

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