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Friday, February 03, 2012

OT: NBA Monthly Thread, February 2012

I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the inevitable dominance of the Philadelphia 76ers, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the pharmaceutical industry, allergies, and obscure movies.

Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 03, 2012 at 04:46 AM | 1392 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: phillies, twins

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   1001. andrewberg Posted: February 22, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4066205)
i'll be back tomorrow morning with more.


It's after noon in Philly. Maybe we should sent a social worker to make sure Stealges is ok.

I learned my lesson.


That was truly funny. I guess the fact that Irving and Gee went bonkers on them down the stretch shows one of the problems with playing such an undersized back court. And for Monroe's strengths, he is not a great shot blocker to help those guys out if they do get beat.
   1002. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 22, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4066386)
Rondo gets the slot.
   1003. madvillain Posted: February 22, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4066399)
ESPN Mag Article on Presti and OKC.

It's a garbage article IMO. Sure, Presti has hired a solid coach in Brooks and drafted smartly around Durant. But take Durant off that team and it's just another 50 win team stuck in 4th seed land. Yea, he's a good GM, but he got lucky. Same with John Paxson. Yea, he's built smartly around Rose, but 1.7% smiled on Chicago, Paxson, and all us Bulls fans.
   1004. Jimmy P Posted: February 22, 2012 at 05:07 PM (#4066405)
Yea, he's a good GM, but he got lucky. Same with John Paxson. Yea, he's built smartly around Rose, but 1.7% smiled on Chicago, Paxson, and all us Bulls fans.

Sure, but you can say that about just about every good GM. RC Buford gets tons of credit, but he got Robinson and Duncan. I guess West got Kobe not at #1, and did he draft Bynum?
   1005. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 22, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4066420)
@SpearsNBAYahoo: Free agent center Joel Pryzbilla has chosen to sign with Blazers, source tells Yahoo! Sports.


Makes sense. He can help them, too.

Rondo gets the slot.

Poor Josh Smith.
   1006. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 22, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4066439)
It's a garbage article IMO. Sure, Presti has hired a solid coach in Brooks and drafted smartly around Durant. But take Durant off that team and it's just another 50 win team stuck in 4th seed land. Yea, he's a good GM, but he got lucky. Same with John Paxson. Yea, he's built smartly around Rose, but 1.7% smiled on Chicago, Paxson, and all us Bulls fans.

This is still an overreaction to a perfectly cromulent article.
   1007. madvillain Posted: February 22, 2012 at 05:27 PM (#4066440)
Sure, but you can say that about just about every good GM. RC Buford gets tons of credit, but he got Robinson and Duncan. I guess West got Kobe not at #1, and did he draft Bynum?


It's easy to ID bad GMs. But IMO reaching elite, title level contention in the NBA is mostly about drafting a superstar and not ####### it up. As we've seen in Orlando, it can be done.
   1008. Jimmy P Posted: February 22, 2012 at 05:30 PM (#4066448)
It's easy to ID bad GMs. But IMO reaching elite, title level contention in the NBA is mostly about drafting a superstar and not ####### it up. As we've seen in Orlando, it can be done.

But good GMs can be seen. Do they pick the right coach? Do they get players that fit together and not sign horrible contracts?
   1009. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 22, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4066453)
But good GMs can be seen. Do they pick the right coach? Do they get players that fit together and not sign horrible contracts?


I think it is the ancillary moves that define a good GM. Look at San Antonio. They got Robinson and Duncan, but they also drafted Ginobli and Parker, and consistently do a good job of getting the role players the team needs. (Buford was hired by Pop, so there's no extra credit there, but hiring the right coach is obviously part of it too.)
   1010. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 22, 2012 at 06:37 PM (#4066532)
In his power rankings this week, Stein said the Sixers are 8-10 without Hawes (now 8-11). Not only do they need him back, they need him to keep playing at a high level. What exactly is his injury again? He hasn't had surgery or anything, right?
he had a back issue that turned into an achilles issue, and it just hasn't gotten better.

It's after noon in Philly. Maybe we should sent a social worker to make sure Stealges is ok.
all's fine. just a little distracted at the moment.



here's about what i see with this team right now:

there are games where they get absolutely nothing from their starting frontcourt, and it's killing them at the start of games. it's not just the rookies, either. elton brand has fallen off another table, and he's just not active enough on offense or on the glass to continue starting.

jodie meeks has just not hit enough shots to make up for the lack of diversity in his production. i know that 41% from beyond the arc is really good, but he misses a lot of open shots, and when that happens, it's just very deflating.

evan turner is just completely out of rhythm. he's handling the ball like ####, and he's shooting the ball like ####, and the team really needs a lot more out of him.

andre iguodala is kind of in a rut where he's just not able to put the ball in the net. i'm not opposed to him taking a smaller role in the offense, and i really hate the idea of him trying to force his own shot, but...you know, there's no but. he's just not the answer to the team's offensive woes, and the less weight he puts on himself to be that answer, the better he'll produce for the team as a supporting part.


the schedule has not been kind. they're banged up inside, and over the last 8 games, they've played tim duncan/tiago splitter, blake griffin/deandre jordan, dwight howard, dirk nowitzki, kevin love/nik pekovic, and amrc gasol, and they just have not been able to get over the hump against any of them. they got killed by orlando's 3 point shooting, killed by dallas's zone defense, killed by gasol and love and pekovic in the paint, killed by splitter on the pick and role.

i mean, if there was one recurring theme in all of these losses, that'd be one thing, but with most of these games, they've been taken to the mat in a different way each time, and they just have not had the jump to get back to their feet.


on a slightly brighter note, of these 6 losses, 5 have been to western conference teams that there's virtually no chance of meeting in the playoffs. that's not much of a consolation right now, but it's better than losing 5 of the last 6 to boston, new york, indiana, and atlanta.

and, at least for now, the sixers still have a 4 game lead in the eastern conference.


and regarding the trade deadline, i don't know that there's anything that i'd do. the sixers are a team that's driven by their youth, so i'd really prefer that the team continue to develop their young players (jrue, thad, et, nik, lavoy) as opposed to finding a stopgap at one of their weaker positions (for example, there were sixers fans who were hoping to sign kenyon martin and jr smith, and i'd just really rather not touch something like that at this time).

i think it's time for thaddeus young to be put in the starting lineup. i know they like his energy off the bench, but the team is drowning in the first few minutes, and if he is going to be counted upon as a key piece of the future, it's time for them to give him the ball.

   1011. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 22, 2012 at 06:38 PM (#4066533)
holy ####, noone's gonna read that.


   1012. andrewberg Posted: February 22, 2012 at 07:01 PM (#4066548)
holy ####, noone's gonna read that.


Au contraire bonjour, the team is more interesting when it struggles and has to find its way out. The knock on the team at the start of the year was that the offense was imbalanced- the skilled offensive guys weren't going to get that many minutes (Williams, Meeks, Thad to an extent) and the others have big holes in their offensive game (Iggy's shooting, Hawes' efficiency, Brand's lack of explosiveness). You're right that it's now up to Collins to find a way to mix and match to turn the depth into a lineup that can work. Puttng Thad in the starting lineup sounds like a good idea to me.
   1013. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 22, 2012 at 07:47 PM (#4066573)
he had a back issue that turned into an achilles issue, and it just hasn't gotten better.

Well that's something.

and, at least for now, the sixers still have a 4 game lead in the eastern conference.

They've only played 3 division games, tied with Minnesota for fewest in the league. So it's both an opportunity and a risk. I no longer think Boston is a threat to them for the division, but if the Knicks are for real they might pose some competition. If they win the division, they get a top 4 seed, and I don't see a whole lot of differences* between the options they'd play in the first round if they were the 3 or 4 seed.

*At the moment, if the Knicks are this good they might be the one lower seed to really avoid in the first round.
   1014. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 22, 2012 at 08:53 PM (#4066608)
I was listening to Boston get off to a quick start at OKC here at work, 6 point lead, then turned around for a quickie desk meeting. 10 minutes later, OKC has almost a 20-point lead. Scary.
   1015. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 22, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4066618)
Au contraire bonjour, the team is more interesting when it struggles and has to find its way out. The knock on the team at the start of the year was that the offense was imbalanced- the skilled offensive guys weren't going to get that many minutes (Williams, Meeks, Thad to an extent) and the others have big holes in their offensive game (Iggy's shooting, Hawes' efficiency, Brand's lack of explosiveness). You're right that it's now up to Collins to find a way to mix and match to turn the depth into a lineup that can work. Puttng Thad in the starting lineup sounds like a good idea to me.
they just have not gotten nearly enough out of brand and iguodala, and with hawes down and with allen and meeks in the starting lineup, there's just not enough offensive firepower for them to be competitive at the starts of games.




   1016. Joey B. is being stalked by a (Gonfa) loon Posted: February 22, 2012 at 09:11 PM (#4066620)
I'll bet it has been quite a while since the Celtics gave up 72 points in a half.
   1017. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 22, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4066632)
Only seven years, actually. February 8, 2005. 78 points! Wow.
   1018. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 22, 2012 at 10:16 PM (#4066655)
Avery Bradley and Keyon Dooling have nooooo chance against Westbrook.

The Celtics just can't handle the Thunder perimeter guys. Too much speed, athleticism, youth. It was a fun four years.
   1019. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 22, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4066660)
3 comments on the first half of Chicago/Milwaukee:

1. Milwaukee's defensive plan against Chicago tonight is quite unique. They're over helping on Rose - something 3 and 4 defenders are collapsing on him. They're just trying to get the ball out of his hands. It's led to 9 TOs and 16 points, so in one sense it's working. In another sense, it's failing spectacularly. If the Bulls aren't turning it over, they're getting a wide open shot or a wide open offensive rebound putback.

2. As a result, triple double alert: Noah has 6pts, 8reb and 7ast. Several of those assists were him bring the ball up the court uncontested and dumping it off for a layup. He's the Bulls' 2nd best ballhandler in most of their lineups.

3. Speaking of lineups, the Bulls finished the first quarter with these 5: James, Lucas, Deng, Gibson, Asik. Ugh.
   1020. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 22, 2012 at 10:32 PM (#4066666)
Celtics somehow have cut the Thunder lead from 26 to 6 - three and a half to play.

They sure don't give up, I'll say that much.
   1021. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 22, 2012 at 10:38 PM (#4066670)
Thunder close it out, no surprise.
   1022. Joey B. is being stalked by a (Gonfa) loon Posted: February 22, 2012 at 10:45 PM (#4066671)
Yep, they will probably make the playoffs, but this iteration of the Celtics is definitely toast. Time to start looking to the rebuild job.
   1023. tshipman Posted: February 22, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4066677)
Yep, they will probably make the playoffs, but this iteration of the Celtics is definitely toast. Time to start looking to the rebuild job.


Well, they need to be rebuilt sooner or later anyways, but this season was always going to be tough for them due to the schedule. All of the veteran teams in the NBA have struggled with the schedule (with the exception of the Spurs because Popovich doesn't care if he sacrifices one game). Look at Dallas, LAL and Boston--all have had issues this year.
   1024. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 22, 2012 at 11:30 PM (#4066699)
thank ####### christ for the allstar break. really could have used it a week or two ago, but now is better than never.

   1025. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 22, 2012 at 11:30 PM (#4066700)
Jefferson choosing to shoot with 7 seconds left, making it to tie it, then making no effort to defend Ridnour's game winning shot is pretty much the epitome of Jefferson.

I am hoping the Jazz FO recognizes they have a bad team, and look to deal Jefferson and maybe Harris. The early season success was fun and unexpected, but looks like it was mostly a lot of home games coupled with some luck facing weakened opponents. Sticking with the veterans for the slim chance of reaching the playoffs to get swept by the Thunder is dumb.
   1026. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 23, 2012 at 12:57 AM (#4066740)
Derek Fisher sighting in Dallas.
   1027. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 01:16 AM (#4066752)
Wild/weird ending in DAL.
   1028. tshipman Posted: February 23, 2012 at 01:17 AM (#4066754)
I cannot believe how crappy the Lakers are deciding to be. Missing 6 straight FTs down the stretch?

Edit: ARRRGH missed 7/9

Double Edit: I was upset, but then I saw that World Peace entered the game. How can I be mad now?
   1029. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 23, 2012 at 01:23 AM (#4066757)
When one of the other point guards shows up with Bryant, Bynum and Gasol , the Lakers are really good. It's a shame that you can't count on that 4th guy.
   1030. robinred Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:17 AM (#4066927)
Double Edit: I was upset, but then I saw that World Peace entered the game. How can I be mad now?


Metta actually did a nice job on Carter. He is still useful defensively in certin matchups but is obviously more of a spot player now.

Lin plays against Miami tonight.
   1031. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:28 AM (#4066939)
1028: So, I was trying to figure out which player "ARRRGH" might be - this, despite watching the 4thQ. Sigh...
   1032. andrewberg Posted: February 23, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4066980)
Jefferson choosing to shoot with 7 seconds left, making it to tie it, then making no effort to defend Ridnour's game winning shot is pretty much the epitome of Jefferson.


Possibly the most he has done for a Timberwolves win in his career. I watched the first half and did not expect a comeback, let alone one spurred by Barea who looked like he was playing with a concussion in the first half.
   1033. JC in DC Posted: February 23, 2012 at 12:31 PM (#4066994)
I'm starting to take Lin for granted, so I'm posting just to remind myself how broken the season would be without him. I mean, we have a point guard who can actually play! How the hell did that happen?
   1034. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4067043)
Hollinger on the Knicks:
While their frontcourt and backcourt depth remains weak, all of a sudden you're looking at a team with four stars in the starting lineup and two pretty good guards waiting in reserve. A closing quintet of Lin, Smith, Anthony, Stoudemire and Chandler...trumps 13 of the 15 Eastern teams, and the other two aren't overwhelmingly better...the big picture takeaway goes something like this: Keep an eye on [Lin's] turnovers, sure, but don't sweat them unless they get completely out of hand...


EDIT: And the Knicks are now 5th in defensive efficiency. Unfortunately, they've also played the league's easiest schedule thus far.

EDIT 2: I fully expect 10 turnovers from Lin tonight.
   1035. mike f Posted: February 23, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4067070)
It's easy to ID bad GMs. But IMO reaching elite, title level contention in the NBA is mostly about drafting a superstar and not ####### it up. As we've seen in Orlando, it can be done.
And even a GM as bad as Smith (Glen Davis makes me so, so angry) got to the Finals and the ECF.
   1036. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: February 23, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4067108)
While their frontcourt and backcourt depth remains weak, all of a sudden you're looking at a team with four stars in the starting lineup and two pretty good guards waiting in reserve.


I'm sorry but how are Baron Davis and JR Smith not good backcourt depth? If anything, Novak's emergence and the addition of these two guys gives New York pretty decent depth.
   1037. andrewberg Posted: February 23, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4067121)
I'm sorry but how are Baron Davis and JR Smith not good backcourt depth? If anything, Novak's emergence and the addition of these two guys gives New York pretty decent depth.


That's a fair point, but I think he's not giving Davis credit for work he hasn't done yet. His track record this year is taking way longer than expected to come off of a back injury, not being in very good shape, not having played in a pretty unique offense, and not having played with his teammates. That can be overcome, but I think it is also reasonable to make him prove it. Until then, the back court is Lin, Smith, Fields and a bunch of question marks. That's not much depth.

Also, I think it is more likely that Novak has had a couple of hot shooting weeks than that he has "emerged." The guy is 28 and in his 6th year. He shoots threes and that's it.
   1038. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: February 23, 2012 at 02:28 PM (#4067130)
Until then, the back court is Lin, Smith, Fields and a bunch of question marks. That's not much depth.


Ok, I see your point about Davis, although the odd thing is that Hollinger writes that the Knicks have two pretty good guards waiting in reserve, so I assume he means Smith AND Davis. I'm a little more optimistic about Novak if only because his strong performance has occurred exactly at the same time as Lin's introduction into the line-up. I just think he's going to keep on getting good looks now that the Knicks have a real point.

Amare might be toast. Whatever the problem is, he's worse than Jeffries, which is crazy to say. I almost think he shouldn't be on the court when Chandler is because of spacing issues. Would be interesting if they put him on the second team.
   1039. JJ1986 Posted: February 23, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4067132)
I assumed the two guards in reserve were Smith and Shumpert. You can't count on Davis.
   1040. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: February 23, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4067135)
I assumed the two guards in reserve were Smith and Shumpert. You can't count on Davis.


Holy crap, I forgot about Shumpert! In that case, how many teams have four decent to very good guards on their team, with someone with Baron's upside waiting in the wings? Seems like a high bar to say that's not good depth.
   1041. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4067144)
Also, I think it is more likely that Novak has had a couple of hot shooting weeks than that he has "emerged." The guy is 28 and in his 6th year. He shoots threes and that's it.

The only real difference between Novak this year and Novak in the past is PT.

EDIT: And as far as frontcourt depth I've really enjoyed JORTS and Jeffries' contributions this year.
   1042. JC in DC Posted: February 23, 2012 at 03:18 PM (#4067187)
JORTS?
   1043. robinred Posted: February 23, 2012 at 03:29 PM (#4067196)
Mike Brown talks about the Lakers' offense:

"Our offense is a read-based offense -- it's up to our point guards to get the ball in different spots,'' Brown was saying Wednesday following the Lakers' 96-91 over the champion Mavericks. "There's no way, without a training camp, after the first week of the season that I could sit back and say, 'Guys, go figure it out.' Because they don't know it.

"Not only do they not know it,'' he admitted of his opening weeks in charge of the Lakers, "I'm not sure, based on the personnel, if this is the right stuff for us.
"I keep the play cards and I make one up almost every game. My play card from the first two weeks of the season is completely different from what it is now. It's funny, because all this stuff came out recently.''


"The reality of it -- and this is not a knock on our players at all -- if you got Chris Paul, you say, 'Chris Paul, go get us a good shot.' Play pick-and-roll and Chris Paul is going to set you up. You got Tony Parker? Go get us a good shot. (Russell) Westbrook, go get something.

"We are an execution team,'' continued Brown. "It's not a knock on Steve Blake, it's not a knock on Derek Fisher. They're not breaking it down and playing pick-and-roll, so what we have to do is we have to be an execution team. What does that mean?''


http://cnnsi.com/2012/writers/ian_thomsen/02/23/lakers.brown/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a2
   1044. Graham Posted: February 23, 2012 at 03:53 PM (#4067213)
He's presumably talking about Josh Harrellson.
   1045. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 23, 2012 at 03:59 PM (#4067217)
Novak - I dunno, this isn't that different from whom he's always been. He's just in a place that needs someone who can do what he does more than some of his other teams.
Shumpert: it's a serious stretch to call him good at this point. Or to say the Jeffries is as good for NYK as Amar'e - even considering his superior fit.

***

Good Lord, there's a lot of Lin's stuff on ESPN's NBA page right now. Links on the top half of the page include:

Lin braces for Heat, won't change approach
Knicks' Lin leaves couch for fancy apartment
Spoelstra hopes Lin's play trumps ethnicity
Lin, Knicks cruise past listless Hawks | Reax
TeamRankings: Lin not a future All-Star
Hollinger: Lin's turnover problem
When Bron saw Lin » OTL, 3 ET
Lin stopper? Lin vs. LBJ » Vote
Wallace: Lin not Heat's only focus
Lin's future: Projecting his career

That's not counting the stuff in the Insider section, the Twitter feed, his photo gallery, his *arcade game*, the rookie watch (Looking for the next Lin), the videos (both clips of Lin and testimonials about him), the columnists...

That -might- be overkill.

***

so what we have to do is we have to be an execution team. What does that mean?

It means the Lakers should have either gotten a better "traditional" point guard this offseason, whether the Paul trade died or not - or hired a different coach (like Shaw, who'd use the triangle, or someone else who was more creative offensively) - or both.

   1046. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 23, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4067224)
   1047. Jimmy P Posted: February 23, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4067244)
That -might- be overkill.


They need to drive ratings somehow. With the NFL over, they can't force Tebow down our throats.
   1048. robinred Posted: February 23, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4067307)
tomhaberstroh Tom Haberstroh
Average ticket price for Knicks-Heat now higher than Game 2 of last season's NBA Finals in Miami.


   1049. andrewberg Posted: February 23, 2012 at 05:55 PM (#4067314)
We need to get a Daytona 500 thread going here. #Denny Hamlinsanity
   1050. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 23, 2012 at 06:49 PM (#4067388)
#Denny Hamlinsanity
Any turnovers would be a real problem.
   1051. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 23, 2012 at 06:56 PM (#4067401)
Average ticket price for Knicks-Heat now higher than Game 2 of last season's NBA Finals in Miami.

At the end of the day, all this to see a pretty good point guard play? I suppose I might feel differently if I was of Asian descent.
   1052. andrewberg Posted: February 23, 2012 at 07:10 PM (#4067415)
Any turnovers would be a real problem.


Chef Bowyerdee
   1053. robinred Posted: February 23, 2012 at 07:10 PM (#4067416)
The Pruiti article was, like most of his work, interesting and useful. Pruiti does seem to have kind of a bug up his ass about Lin, though.

At the end of the day, all this to see a pretty good point guard play?


Wonder what the ratio of NY/MIA fans in the house will be?
   1054. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 23, 2012 at 07:26 PM (#4067430)
At the end of the day, all this to see a pretty good point guard play? I suppose I might feel differently if I was of Asian descent.
I wanted to make a joke about Boston and racism, but I've got food coma. Gimme half an hour, though, and I'll be hungry again and good to go.
   1055. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 23, 2012 at 07:28 PM (#4067432)
I didn't realize there were any other NASCAR fans on the site.

Kyle Busch's ridiculous saves in the Shootout were some of the most impressive things I've ever seen. #rowdball

(yo dawg, i heard you like off-topic threads...)

   1056. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 23, 2012 at 07:42 PM (#4067444)
Hey, you used the meme correctly! I, also, like to meme.
   1057. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 23, 2012 at 09:05 PM (#4067513)
EDIT 2: I fully expect 10 turnovers from Lin tonight.
This is looking like a really good call.
   1058. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 23, 2012 at 09:22 PM (#4067528)
I'm not a Hawks fan, so I may just not be used to their radio team, but they seem to me to be the most homer-ific announcing duo in all of basketball. In the last few minutes, every call that went against Atlanta was "missed", and the refs who called them "have no business being out of the D-League." This was in between the slobbering over the home team. Unlistenable.
   1059. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 23, 2012 at 09:57 PM (#4067550)
I'm not a Hawks fan, so I may just not be used to their radio team, but they seem to me to be the most homer-ific announcing duo in all of basketball. In the last few minutes, every call that went against Atlanta was "missed", and the refs who called them "have no business being out of the D-League." This was in between the slobbering over the home team. Unlistenable.
malik rose has had a bit of that in him over this last losing streak, and it's really been off-putting.


the officiating has been inconsistent, at best, though. and sometimes there are sequences of calls that are just completely frustrating. not so much wrong, but a travel here, a missed one there. a charge here, a block there. when 2 or 3 of those pile up in quick succession, it just gives off a vibe where the game feels rigged.


that's always been an issue with basketball, but it hasn't gotten better with the condensed schedule.
   1060. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 23, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4067555)
In Lin's defense, this is his 12th game with significant minutes and really only his first stinker. Which it is.

(I haven't listened to the Hawks radio team in years - don't even know if they've changed over time.)
   1061. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 23, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4067570)
Come on, Pujols, I'm sitting here watching Ainge, McHale, and Eric Montross highlights on YouTube until you come up with something.
   1062. nick swisher hygiene Posted: February 23, 2012 at 10:55 PM (#4067575)
Gallinari, Lawson, Nene--pretty clearly Denver's three best guys--out again. At this point, what's the best-case scenario? Probably ten legit playoff contenders in the West. A 7 seed, avoid the Thunder and sneak up on somebody with a healthy roster. Completely healthy, or at least reasonably healthy, I still like their chances OK against anybody else....How many games this year again? (Sigh.)
   1063. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:10 PM (#4067585)
Come on, Pujols, I'm sitting here watching Ainge, McHale, and Eric Montross highlights on YouTube until you come up with something.
What? I thought my reverse layup (Chinese, Chinese food, half an hour until hungry again) was pretty clever. Dammit.
   1064. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:14 PM (#4067590)
In Lin's defense, this is his 12th game with significant minutes and really only his first stinker. Which it is.
I listened to the Heat radio guys, and they said several times that Lin looked "tired." Magic Johnson the other day said that this would happen at some point because Jeremy hasn't said no to anyone, not for pre- and post-game interviews, All-Star weekend activities, etc. Between that and the compressed schedule and the huge number of minutes he's playing, it was going to catch up to him.

Also, guys are gunning for him now. Everyone's good with the story, but nobody wants to be the patsy in the next Linsanity story. The Heat really slammed the door on him tonight.
   1065. tshipman Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:14 AM (#4067634)
I wonder to what extent Lin's performance was just a bad game, and to what extent it was Miami's defensive game plan.
   1066. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 24, 2012 at 10:37 AM (#4067757)
What? I thought my reverse layup (Chinese, Chinese food, half an hour until hungry again) was pretty clever. Dammit.

(facepalm)

It was good, I was just slow on the draw. A belated "well played" to you.
   1067. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 24, 2012 at 10:40 AM (#4067759)
I wonder to what extent Lin's performance was just a bad game, and to what extent it was Miami's defensive game plan.

Didn't see the game except for highlights, but Pruiti in the link in [1046] thought the Heat would give him trouble by trapping him when he comes of screens, and that because Miami traps all the time and has good athletes, their defensive rotations are good enough to cover anything that opens up. Can anyone who watched confirm this hypothesis?

   1068. jmurph Posted: February 24, 2012 at 10:43 AM (#4067761)
I wonder to what extent Lin's performance was just a bad game, and to what extent it was Miami's defensive game plan.


I think it's maybe an easier answer, which is that Lin is currently a little too sloppy with the ball, and Miami is a very good defensive team when playing to their potential. I would expect him to struggle against a healthy Bulls team, too.
   1069. jmurph Posted: February 24, 2012 at 10:45 AM (#4067762)
Didn't see the game except for highlights, but Pruiti in the link in [1046] thought the Heat would give him trouble by trapping him when he comes of screens, and that because Miami traps all the time and has good athletes, their defensive rotations are good enough to cover anything that opens up. Can anyone who watched confirm this hypothesis?


I saw most of it, and yes, they seemed to do this a lot. They also actively tried to strip him/tip the ball away quite a bit, successfully.
   1070. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 24, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4067793)
It was good, I was just slow on the draw. A belated "well played" to you.
I come from a subtle people.
   1071. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4067824)
I wonder to what extent Lin's performance was just a bad game, and to what extent it was Miami's defensive game plan.

I only watched the last 3 quarters and there was beer involved, but it went about exactly as I expected. Miami trapped him and there perimeter defenders are great enough, especially when motivated, that it's going to be a huge problem for him at this point in his career. Even when he tried to set the PnR up to go to his right the MIA guys would beat him to the spot and cut off his angles. I don't think CHI will give him as much trouble because while they are excellent defensively I don't think their perimeter defenders are as good as MIA's though that's just my general impression.
   1072. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4067825)
I come from a subtle people.

"Inscrutable" would've made for a better joke.
   1073. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4067847)
I had started writing a post talking about our preseason predictions, but lost it so I'm not going to try and re-create it (consensus picks are in post 1404).

I did pretty well on the West so far; biggest miss was the Clips (predicted 6th), although I had them getting to the conference semis. I missed a lot more on the non-playoff teams, totally underrating the Wolves and Jazz and overrating the Warriors. The East is more of a mixed bag, I hung a lot on the Magic trading Howard to NJ; if that happens, my picks become less ridiculous. I said the 4 worst teams in the league were Cha, Tor, Det and Cle - at least I got one (maybe 2) right. Of course, there's not a whole lot of separation in either conference, so there could be significant changes before the season ends still. The only real gap is between Mia/Chi and the rest of the East; OKC looks pretty safe as a top 2 seed out West.

Looks like the biggest miss overall is the Celtics, no one predicted them to struggle like this. None of the C's fans saw this coming (there's even a Rondo MVP prediction in there!).
   1074. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:46 PM (#4067856)
(there's even a Rondo MVP prediction in there!).

Wait, REALLY? I definitely missed that the first time around.
   1075. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4067880)
[1074] Joe C, I've been meaning to tell you that I really and truly love your username.
   1076. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4067893)
   1077. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:33 PM (#4067905)
NJ, thanks.

There's another "JoeC" who posts here from time to time, but I've been around longer.

By the way, I will be in NYC next weekend, and the Knicks play the Celtics at 1pm that Sunday. If there are any NYC locals who post on this thread who would be out and about watching that game anyway, let me know and maybe we can have a beer and watch a couple of quarters.
   1078. Jimmy P Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4067912)
I wonder to what extent Lin's performance was just a bad game, and to what extent it was Miami's defensive game plan.


Miami's D is awesome, and Chris Paul is about the only point guard this year to do well against them. I don't think we should really hold this against Lin yet.
   1079. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4067928)
For those who can stand his voice, Simmons has quite the lineup of NBA podcast guests over the last couple of days - Dirk, Kevin Love, Chris Paul, Dave Cowens, Robert Horry and Chris Mullin. Have only listened to Dirk - relatively short and fairly cookie-cutter but interesting enough to at least hold my interest.
   1080. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:26 PM (#4067945)
Five-time NBA All-Star Reggie Miller and Don Nelson, the league's winningest coach, headline the list of 12 finalists for the 2012 class for the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.

Miller was joined Friday by three other first-time finalists -- five-time NCAA Final Four coach Rick Pitino, former NBA coach Bill Fitch and two-time Olympic gold medalist Katrina McClain.

Previous finalists on the ballot again are Nelson, Maurice Cheeks, Bernard King, Dick Motta, Hank Nichols, Ralph Sampson, Jamaal Wilkes and the All-American Red Heads, known as the female version of the Harlem Globetrotters and the first women's professional basketball team.


Chet Walker elected by the veterans committee. Pat Williams gets lifetime achievement award. Sam Smith gets the media award. Also, this:

WojYahooNBA: Jerry Colangelo and David Stern just put Nike's Phil Knight into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Amazing. They're selling Hall spots now.
WojYahooNBA: From Phil Knight to Dick Vitale, they're using the Hall of Fame as a way to take care of big financial partners of the NBA, USA Basketball.
   1081. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4067949)
(there's even a Rondo MVP prediction in there!)


Surely my finest moment of prognostication!
   1082. Jimmy P Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4067963)
Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame

I really think this the most irrelevant of all the HOFs. They let in a ton of people that are rather questionable inclusions. Even before Knight and Vitale. There are so many college coaches that really weren't HOF worthy, but held a job for 30+ and racked up wins.

The NBA should really start their own HOF, but they won't.
   1083. Graham Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4067999)
That's not even mentioning that they locked Artis Gilmore out for 20 years.
   1084. jmurph Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4068004)
I really think this the most irrelevant of all the HOFs.


The NFL is right up there. I'm pretty sure everyone who has ever even seen a Super Bowl ring in person is in Canton. Except Art Monk, bizarrely.
   1085. Kurt Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4068012)
Art Monk is in. So that's everyone.
   1086. jmurph Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:45 PM (#4068016)
Yikes, 2008, too. What's 5 years between friends, eh?

EDIT: 4 years. I'll stop talking now.
   1087. andrewberg Posted: February 24, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4068037)
Aren't there some pretty good QBs left out? Danny White, Jim Plunkett? I'm not going to look this up.
   1088. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 24, 2012 at 04:20 PM (#4068039)
my preseason predictions v. actual performance.
proj east: chi, mia, phi, bos, nyk, ind, orl, mil || atl, njn, det, tor, cle, was, cha
real east: mia, chi, orl, ind, phi, atl, nyk, bos || cle, mil, det, tor, njn, was, cha
proj west: okc, lac, sas, dal, den, por, lal, mem || hou, min, uta, noh, pho, gsw, sac
real west: okc, sas, lac, dal, hou, lal, mem, por || den, min, uta, gsw, pho, sac, noh

biggest misses (regardless of how they look based on the above) ... nj (i blame the lopez injury), new orleans (didn't expect a train wreck), atlanta (i *always* go low on them), boston, orlando (thought they'd play anderson less, baby more - among other things), cleveland (irving is more advanced than i expected). thought denver would be better. lowry retained more of his gains for hou than i thought he would.

honestly, though - i don't think this looks that bad - particularly had i slapped some wpcts on there.

***

i thought monk wasn't in the hof either.
   1089. Jimmy P Posted: February 24, 2012 at 04:44 PM (#4068052)
Aren't there some pretty good QBs left out? Danny White, Jim Plunkett? I'm not going to look this up.


You still haven't named a good QB.
   1090. Kurt Posted: February 24, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4068062)
Aren't there some pretty good QBs left out? Danny White, Jim Plunkett? I'm not going to look this up.

There are lots of "pretty good" QB's. FWIW, the top ten eligible, non-HOF QB's by passing yards (obviously not the best measure of value but a fair proxy for compiling a HOF career) are Vinny Testaverde, Drew Bledsoe, Dave Krieg, Boomer Esiason, Jim Everett, Jim Hart, Steve DeBerg, John Hadl, Phil Simms and Ken Anderson. So no, I wouldn't say there are a lot of stones left unturned there.
   1091. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 24, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4068096)
thought denver would be better.
that's not really something to kick yourself over. up until they lost nene and gallinari, they were better.


i seem to have been a bit overzealous w/r/t portland. they are just getting absolute #### from PG and C, and wes matthews isn't really having a banner year, either.

   1092. andrewberg Posted: February 24, 2012 at 06:56 PM (#4068183)
   1093. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 24, 2012 at 07:16 PM (#4068198)
Maybe Sheed will be the point guard the Lakers need?
   1094. robinred Posted: February 24, 2012 at 07:29 PM (#4068208)
If this actually happens, it probably means that either Pau is getting traded, or (as I have thought for awhile) that they have already agreed to move McRoberts in a deal March 1 and that is why he has been sitting. Given Varejao's injury, Jamison's deal finally expiring, and McRoberts' team-friendly deal with another year on it, it is possible that McRoberts will be part of a deal for Sessions. But no LA media guys that I am aware of have confirmed Wallace's coming here (Ding, KBros etc) so I will wait for that.
   1095. robinred Posted: February 24, 2012 at 07:44 PM (#4068215)
Maybe Sheed will be the point guard the Lakers need?


No worries there. If Stern thinks so, he'll just veto it.
   1096. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: February 24, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4068226)
Sheed must mean Walton and McRoberts to Detroit for Ben Gordon is but moments away. Book it!!

For those who have watched him, is Ben Gordon (ignoring, for a moment, the horrid contract) much less of a player than Jason Terry? Terry plays more, but their numbers seem pretty close. Is Terry a decent comp for Gordon if you put them in similar situations?
   1097. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 24, 2012 at 09:14 PM (#4068258)
Terry can legitimately play some pg, unlike Gordon, and is a better defender. Put another, somewhat exaggerated way - terry has had an above average PER for the last 12 seasons (all but rookie year) - Gordon has for only 3 of 8 seasons.
   1098. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: February 24, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4068266)
The bit in andrew's linked article about Wallace being in, well, the best shape of his life, is surely just anonymous, generic nonsense. But I think it would be hilarious if Rasheed come back, thin and fit, and played really well for the Lakers, just to see how Simmons would react.
   1099. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 24, 2012 at 10:52 PM (#4068305)
I think if Rasheed comes back it will provide hilarity regardless.
   1100. tshipman Posted: February 24, 2012 at 10:54 PM (#4068309)
Here's what's crazy about Jason Terry--he's as old as Vince Carter. He was never as good as VC, but somehow he's fallen off less.

Jason Terry is still going. Why? He's not such a great shooter. He's not that fast anymore. Jason Terry is a mystery to me.

Edit: that prediction thread is hilarious:


Kyrie Irvin is going to struggle in the NBA. I doubt he's ever anything more than a solid starter, at absolute best. His physical tools are meh, his ability to penetrate, from what I saw at Duke, isn't anything special, and his shot is decent but not deadly enough to where guys have to guard him tight. He was quicker than 95% of college defenders, that's not going to be the case in the NBA.


Whoops!

From me, so I don't seem like I'm picking on other people:
Golden State might be good next year
Whoops!

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