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Friday, February 03, 2012

OT: NBA Monthly Thread, February 2012

I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the inevitable dominance of the Philadelphia 76ers, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the pharmaceutical industry, allergies, and obscure movies.

Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 03, 2012 at 04:46 AM | 1392 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: phillies, twins

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   1101. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 24, 2012 at 10:57 PM (#4068310)
i'd just like to point out that evan turner has 12 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists on 6/6 shooting in the first half. he leads the game in minutes (14) and in +/- (+19).


   1102. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 24, 2012 at 11:59 PM (#4068324)
a few things:

..kyrie irving was astounding in this game.
..john wall is a tremendous athlete, but he's a real space cadet. he needs someone else on the court who can grow him up.
..greg monroe will forever be a favorite of mine for snatching the ball from wall in that last minute.
..evan turnover kind of showed up in the second half. i imagine that lack of focus is exactly the reason he finds himself in coach collins' doghouse.z

   1103. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 25, 2012 at 12:13 AM (#4068332)
and one last one:

i'm probably alone in this, but when i'm watching this game, the thing that goes through my mind is that the NBA needs to contract some teams. when talented players play alongside other talented players, this game is just so much more entertaining.


i know that quality of play isn't the main consideration in this, but this league would be so much more entertaining if charlotte, sacramento, new orleans, detroit, phoenix and toronto just didn't exist. fewer teams would mean fewer scalabrines. fewer roster spots would mean the D-league would be a stronger proving ground for young talent. fewer games would mean that the league would have more of an opportunity to showcase games at the national level without having local broadcasts split the audience.


if the NBA is supposed to be the highest level of competition in the sport, there really should be more of a focus on raising the level of play, so that the gap between the NBA and euroleague, or the NBA and the NCAA becomes laughably large.
   1104. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 25, 2012 at 12:24 AM (#4068334)
Looking at my predictions, they look pretty decent. Memphis losing Arthur for the season and Z-Bo for a huge chunk messed up their #2 ranking, but they're still the playoff picture and they're getting Z-Bo back soon. I thought Houston would fall just short of the playoffs, but so far they're right in the scrum with everyone else. Like everyone else I had Boston too high. I also had Milwaukee as the #8 seed and Indy just short. Oops.


My awesome prediction of the year: "I'd rather play Lin than Bibby." Nailed it!
   1105. PJ Martinez Posted: February 25, 2012 at 11:18 AM (#4068497)
I can't really disagree with #1103 (though the gap between the NBA and the NCAA seems "laughably large" to me already; maybe that depends on your definition of "laughably").

Of course, contraction is probably a pipe dream -- certainly the league will never contract 6 (!) teams. But it does own 1 team right now -- and isn't Sacramento a mess, too? So contracting 2 teams doesn't seem entirely out of the realm of the semi-plausibility (though I assume it's not going to happen).

Have a contraction draft of the Kings and Hornets players, make 4 divisions of 7 teams each... that might sharpen play somewhat.

And maybe in a few years the league could re-expand to 30 teams, with franchises in cities that are more likely to support them.
   1106. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 25, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4068575)
festus ezeli is a 6'11 senior at vanderbilt. in his career, he's played 113 games, 1600+ minutes, and he has a total of 15 assists. he's actually really a pretty nifty player, but considering his size and his utter lack of ability to distribute, i'm gonna go out on a limb and say he'll be drafted by the washington wizards. it just seems like too good a fit.
   1107. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 25, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4068602)
I think any effect from the league being too large is swamped by this year's awkward schedule. Probably shouldn't draw any conclusions this season.

When the Rising Stars kept misfiring on alley-oops it underlined how ridiculous some of those Wade-James hookups have been, and against defense to boot.
   1108. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 26, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4068883)
No dunk contest commentary? That Jeremy Evans double dunk was pretty sick.
   1109. tshipman Posted: February 26, 2012 at 02:37 AM (#4068916)
No dunk contest commentary? That Jeremy Evans double dunk was pretty sick.


I saw it on YouTube. It was pretty good. Always seems like guys who get added at the last minute win it.

Why did Budinger dunk over Diddy?

Edit: update: this dunk is far superior to the Evans double dunk.
   1110. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 26, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4069036)
Chris Sheridan: JR Smith should be playing in the #NBA All-Star Game tonight. Here's why: http://bit.ly/AclCLd 3 minutes ago


i'm not gonna read that, but i know some of the people around here really like sheridan, so i figured i'd quote him.
   1111. PJ Martinez Posted: February 26, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4069072)
The only Laker I can root for:

Rasheed Wallace.
   1112. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 26, 2012 at 03:37 PM (#4069073)
@1110: I followed it because I was curious what kind of argument could possibly be made to include JR, but it's actually about Josh Smith, which makes more sense. The argument he makes isn't great, but I sympathize with the larger point. I would love to see a cogent argument for JR Smith, though, because I find him endlessly fascinating.
   1113. Jimmy P Posted: February 27, 2012 at 03:59 PM (#4069717)
It appears the Kings are going to be staying in Sac-town. Details of the Maloof welfare plan will be given on Thursday
   1114. tshipman Posted: February 27, 2012 at 04:03 PM (#4069722)
Woj has a hit piece up on James not wanting to be the guy at the end of the AS game.

Strikes me as weak even for a Woj hit piece. Does anyone really care about the AS game? Does Woj write anything but hit pieces?
   1115. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 27, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4069736)
Does anyone really care about the AS game?

If this thread is any indication, no. And I hope the first post on this page was tongue in cheek.
   1116. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 27, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4069769)
No comments on the Wade flagrant that broke Kobe Bryant's nose? I'm guessing if Bryant had laid Wade out, people would have said something. Bryant also refused to criticize Wade for it, and took out his mad on Lebron.

Serious, how many guys would take getting their nose broken in an exhibition game, then purposely put himself out on an island against Lebron James, with the game on the line — twice! — in a game when Lebron hit six 3s? Bryant's a ####### animal. For all his weirdness and off-the-court messes, he is still after all these years, for my money, the most magnetic presence in the NBA.
   1117. madvillain Posted: February 27, 2012 at 05:06 PM (#4069787)
Does anyone really care about the AS game?


Derrick Rose is not impressed.
   1118. Jimmy P Posted: February 27, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4069833)
Strikes me as weak even for a Woj hit piece. Does anyone really care about the AS game? Does Woj write anything but hit pieces?


Sometimes.

Even if James took the shot and hit it, we'd be buried in stories about how unclutch he is because he can only do it in exhibition games.
   1119. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 27, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4069836)
Derrick Rose is not impressed.

He just looks so awkward, and bored, and disinterested in everything the entire weekend every year. He does what he has to do, and then gets out. He's not really a showman or an entertainer.

No comments on the Wade flagrant that broke Kobe Bryant's nose? I'm guessing if Bryant had laid Wade out, people would have said something. Bryant also refused to criticize Wade for it, and took out his mad on Lebron.

Intent matters here. Wade wasn't trying to hurt Kobe, he just happened to catch his nose. And flagrant? Come on. I think that's why you didn't get a reaction out of Kobe. #### happens during games, can be exaggerated when people are playing at different intensities (in this case, Wade wasn't at the same level as Kobe). For the record, I like Kobe more than Wade (I feel the need to point that out, to try and distance myself from a bias accusation).
   1120. smileyy Posted: February 27, 2012 at 07:47 PM (#4069957)
The Wade foul on Bryant was uncharacteristically hard for the ASG, or at least for recent ASGs. I was kind of surprised. I'm not sure the officials always knew what to do with the game. There was a blatant grab on a Durant drive that just went unwhistled.

If I were Rose, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about extra workload in this comically compressed sesaon either, not with his body aching like it does.

It was fun to watch Iggy throw down a few dunks. I wonder if the East was hindered by having a couple of its players being most valuable on defense (Howard, Iggy) in a largely defense-free game.

I wonder what the ASG would be like if you went to a halfcourt format of some kind. 4 teams, playground style halfcourt game. Less "entertaining" flash, more entertaining competition.
   1121. PJ Martinez Posted: February 27, 2012 at 08:58 PM (#4070001)
No comments on the Wade flagrant that broke Kobe Bryant's nose? I'm guessing if Bryant had laid Wade out, people would have said something. Bryant also refused to criticize Wade for it, and took out his mad on Lebron.

I put on the ASG, and the quality of play was so ridiculously bad that I turned it off and have ignored all commentary on it. So I had no idea this happened.

It does remind me to complain that Wade never got enough flak for doing this.
   1122. robinred Posted: February 27, 2012 at 09:59 PM (#4070026)
Wade's foul didn't strike me as dangerous or anything (like Bynum's on Barea, for example) but I thought it was out of line, particularly for an ASG.

Miami plays the Lakers in LA on Sunday afternoon.
   1123. andrewberg Posted: February 27, 2012 at 10:46 PM (#4070039)
We're not the target market for the asg. They do well for eyeballs without the die hards
   1124. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 27, 2012 at 10:48 PM (#4070040)
So... Delonte West?
   1125. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 27, 2012 at 11:13 PM (#4070055)
It does remind me to complain that Wade never got enough flak for doing this.
Wade never gets flack for doing anything. He's the anti-Lebron; nothing bad he does ever sticks to him. Wade breaks a guy's nose, and nobody calls him on it. Lebron passes up on a shot at the end of an exhibition game and he's getting destroyed on talk radio yet again.
   1126. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 27, 2012 at 11:40 PM (#4070067)
I watched Saturday's events because I used to really enjoy the 3PT competition and wanted to see Jeremy dunk. The 3PT competition was pretty bad and outside of Evan's 2nd dunk and Williams' dunk off of the side of the backboard the dunk competition was awful. Do the contestants have much say over the dunks they do? The skits with P Diddy and the guy Evans jumped over were so awkward and unfunny and I just can't see the players planning them.
   1127. madvillain Posted: February 28, 2012 at 12:15 AM (#4070083)
Rose and Deng played the least minutes and Lebron and Wade played the most. I guess Thibs had a plan.

He just looks so awkward, and bored, and disinterested in everything the entire weekend every year. He does what he has to do, and then gets out. He's not really a showman or an entertainer.


Derrick is about winning real games, that's all that matters to him. I honestly think if a Genie came up to Rose and said "you'll win 1 title with your current skills, as a superstar" or "you'll win 5 titles but you are now only good enough to be a bench player" Rose would choose the bench and the titles.

We're not the target market for the asg. They do well for eyeballs without the die hards


True. First time in forever I didn't watch a single minute of it.

Wade never gets flack for doing anything. He's the anti-Lebron; nothing bad he does ever sticks to him.


I really hate that Wade won that title in the way he did. Yea he played great but he had a boat load of god damn help from the officials.
   1128. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 28, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4070218)
Primer retweet (Durant):

@KDTrey5: It's time for @KingJames, Mr Westbrook, Mr.Rose, and @DwyaneWade to get in the dunk contest


---

Matt, Watson should be back tonight and there's a chance Rip plays too. If so, it would only be the 5th game this year they've had their full roster. And even though Mike James had passed JL3 on Thibs' depth chart at backup PG with Watson out, he's gone again because his 10 day contract is up and JL3's is guaranteed. James sure looks like he could help a team out still.
   1129. Jimmy P Posted: February 28, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4070222)
Wade never gets flack for doing anything. He's the anti-Lebron; nothing bad he does ever sticks to him.


He was quiet and didn't do "The Decision," he has a title, and he stayed with his team.

Give him credit, he knows how to work the media.
   1130. Jimmy P Posted: February 28, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4070227)
@KDTrey5: It's time for @KingJames, Mr Westbrook, Mr.Rose, and @DwyaneWade to get in the dunk contest


Rusillo returned from his suspension yesterday and addressed this on his podcast. He basically said that if you talk about this, you probably just don't like the dunk contest. It does fine, it gets ratings and buzz, there's really no reason to do anything with it.
   1131. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 28, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4070307)
Why was Rusillo on suspension?
   1132. madvillain Posted: February 28, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4070360)
Matt, Watson should be back tonight and there's a chance Rip plays too. If so, it would only be the 5th game this year they've had their full roster. And even though Mike James had passed JL3 on Thibs' depth chart at backup PG with Watson out, he's gone again because his 10 day contract is up and JL3's is guaranteed. James sure looks like he could help a team out still.


Yea, I'm excited. Rose said he's pain free as well. A bit worrisome about the apparent refusal to pay even a dime of the luxury tax, but then again, could all be part of that nebulous Garpax term "flexibility".
   1133. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 28, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4070375)
Why was Rusillo on suspension?

Rumor is a fight with a former Boston sports radio colleague (John Dennis - for more on him, see below) at the ESPN Superbowl party. Apparently, years ago, Russillo hit on Dennis' daughter, Dennis didn't like that, there was some voicemail where Dennis accused Russillo of being a drunk, etc. Story

John Dennis - former local sports TV guy, has a morning sports/talk radio show with another goon, Gerry Callahan (writes for the Boston Herald). Here's a fun little excerpt about their show (from Wikipedia):

On September 29, 2003, during a segment called 'headlines', where they read and comment about current news stories, Callahan and his morning co-host John Dennis made what were perceived to be racially insensitive remarks while discussing a story about an escaped gorilla.[13] The gorilla had escaped from the Franklin Park Zoo and had been recaptured at a bus stop. According to newspaper articles, the exchange allegedly was:[14]

Callahan: "They caught him at a bus stop, right -- he was like waiting to catch a bus out of town."
Dennis: "Yeah, yeah -- he's a METCO gorilla."
Callahan: "Heading out to Lexington."
Dennis: "Exactly."

METCO is a state program that buses inner-city Boston students to nearby suburban schools. Many perceived the comments to be comparing poor, mostly African-American children to gorillas.
   1134. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 28, 2012 at 03:38 PM (#4070409)
Thanks, Joe. Now all I need is graphic confirmation than Dennis' daughter is hot, or this story's useless to me.
   1135. Jimmy P Posted: February 28, 2012 at 06:22 PM (#4070506)
Big Ten basketball fans from the late 90s may remember Gyasi Cline-Heard from Penn St. It turns out he makes Sam Hurd look like an amatuer
   1136. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 28, 2012 at 07:35 PM (#4070527)
And I hope the first post on this page was tongue in cheek.
i'm getting the feeling right now that the coaching staff is going full rush limbaugh on evan turner. the team's lost 5 in a row, 7 of the last 9, they're playing detroit, turner's coming off an absolutely stellar performance at all-star weekend, and still, they just won't give him the opportunity to succeed as a starter. there's just some sort of pathological disconnect with the coaching staff and the starting lineup.

there's no offensive firepower in the starting lineup right now, and they're getting put in a hole every game from the tip because of it. elton brand can't score. lavoy allen can't score. iguodala can't score. all meeks does is score, but he doesn't really do it all that well. but despite that lack of offensive ability, elton brand starts and jodie meeks starts.


and it's not about jodie meeks anymore so much as it's about this team needing to commit to its future. evan turner. thaddeus young. jrue holiday. they need to be given the green light to make this team their team. it's time.


two quick side notes:
1, when the season started, the explanation collins gave for meeks being in the starting lineup ahead of turner was that they needed his shooting to space the floor. but jrue holiday is shooting 38% from beyond the arc, and iguodala is shooting 37% from beyond the arc. at least so far this season, they have shown the ability to spread the floor. and considering how little meeks is giving the team elsewhere, that little fig leaf they're clinging to is just getting smaller and smaller.

2, i think it's pretty clear now why collins has washed out of every coaching job he's had. he just ramps up the intensity to such an extent that everyone around him burns out. when marreese speights was traded, collins said that his greatest regret in his first year here was that he failed to get the most out of him. that wasn't something that was on him, so much as it was about speights' incompatibility with the rest of the roster.

but this turner thing is completely on him. there may be some great justification for his treatment, but as a fan on the outside, it just seems like turner is the team's whipping boy, and anytime any of the players does something wrong, it's turner who gets the hook because of it.


   1137. Jimmy P Posted: February 28, 2012 at 07:39 PM (#4070528)
and it's not about jodie meeks anymore so much as it's about this team needing to commit to its future. evan turner. thaddeus young. jrue holiday. they need to be given the green light to make this team their team.

Turner's only averaging 2 minutes less than Meeks. Starting's just an ego trip for guys, it's minutes and crunch time minutes that really matter.
   1138. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 28, 2012 at 08:03 PM (#4070540)
Turner's only averaging 2 minutes less than Meeks. Starting's just an ego trip for guys, it's minutes and crunch time minutes that really matter.
that's not really true. meeks is at 26, and turner's at 24, but iguodala and holiday are both at 35 minutes per game, and that's a number that is really impossible for turner to achieve if he's not in the starting lineup.


i'd agree that it would be a meaningless change if there were no difference in the total allotment of minutes, but that's not what i think should happen.
   1139. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 28, 2012 at 08:12 PM (#4070551)
also, just a quick heads up that league pass is doing a free-preview this week.
   1140. Jimmy P Posted: February 28, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4070556)
that's a number that is really impossible for turner to achieve if he's not in the starting lineup.

That's not really true. And if Turner's going to go into the 30's, then that means either of those two are playing less, or Meeks and Lou Williams are playing less, or Iggy's playing the four. I just don't know if Turner deserves the minutes, and I'm not sure it's in the team's best interest to make Meeks play ~10 minutes a game.
   1141. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 28, 2012 at 08:27 PM (#4070569)
That's not really true. And if Turner's going to go into the 30's, then that means either of those two are playing less, or Meeks and Lou Williams are playing less, or Iggy's playing the four. I just don't know if Turner deserves the minutes, and I'm not sure it's in the team's best interest to make Meeks play ~10 minutes a game.
meeks is a free agent at the end of the year, so him losing minutes to turner isn't exactly a strong concern of mine.


if jrue, iguodala, and turner get 35 minutes each, that means that turner is playing about 20-25 minutes at SG and another 10-15 at SF. iguodala and jrue would basically play exclusively at SF and PG respectively. lou would figure to get ~15 minutes at PG, and then lou and meeks would split another ~25 minutes at SG, playing alongside jrue and either of iguodala or turner.

   1142. Jimmy P Posted: February 28, 2012 at 08:34 PM (#4070573)
meeks is a free agent at the end of the year, so him losing minutes to turner isn't exactly a strong concern of mine.


True. But it is a concern of the team, because they're, you know, trying to win games. And keep everyone healthy and with good stamina for the playoffs. That team is in a precarious position, even moreso with no Hawes (who would've thought we'd be saying that), and I'm not sure that cutting back on Meeks and Lou helps them.

We all like to talk about how they're playing for next year and building. And they are. But they're in prime position to make the playoffs, host the first round, and potentially win that round. That's something that the coach, GM, and owner are all going to want because it means money and job security. Sure, it's not going to help them with the draft and it may not help them acquire more talent, but short of outright tanking, nothing's going to. They're too good for the lottery. So they have to decide what they're going to do in two days (March 1) to really address bringing in more talent. If you're hell bent on increasing Turner and decreasing Meeks/Williams, then hope that they trade one of those two to the Lakers. LA needs wing help. Badly.
   1143. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 28, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4070584)

True. But it is a concern of the team, because they're, you know, trying to win games. And keep everyone healthy and with good stamina for the playoffs. That team is in a precarious position, even moreso with no Hawes (who would've thought we'd be saying that), and I'm not sure that cutting back on Meeks and Lou helps them.

We all like to talk about how they're playing for next year and building. And they are. But they're in prime position to make the playoffs, host the first round, and potentially win that round. That's something that the coach, GM, and owner are all going to want because it means money and job security. Sure, it's not going to help them with the draft and it may not help them acquire more talent, but short of outright tanking, nothing's going to. They're too good for the lottery. So they have to decide what they're going to do in two days (March 1) to really address bringing in more talent. If you're hell bent on increasing Turner and decreasing Meeks/Williams, then hope that they trade one of those two to the Lakers. LA needs wing help. Badly.
lou williams only plays 26 minutes per game right now. getting him his minutes is absolutely not an issue.


and, i think you're assuming that starting turner over meeks is taking one step back to take two steps forward, but with how bad the starting lineup has struggled, i'm not convinced there'll be any regression.



and re:hawes, i really want to say that it's not what it looks like. i want to say that the 12-2 record with him versus 8-12 without him is a fluke. i want to say that averaging 100 ppg with him versus 89 without him is a fluke. i want to say that even if he comes back, there's no guarantee that he'll be as forceful a player as he was at the start of the year.


but at this point, i think it's just becoming an imperative that they get him healthy and back in the lineup.
   1144. robinred Posted: February 28, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4070631)
Kobe is day-to-day with a concussion--has to go through the protocol to be cleared to play.

   1145. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 28, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4070635)
that was not as satisfying as it used to be.


17 steals and 8 blocked shots were a welcome sight, though.
   1146. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 28, 2012 at 11:17 PM (#4070644)
The Jazz are considering benching Hayward (once Bell is back) so they can start Howard and Bell. Sigh.
   1147. tshipman Posted: February 29, 2012 at 01:40 AM (#4070691)
The Jazz are considering benching Hayward (once Bell is back) so they can start Howard and Bell. Sigh.


Hayward hasn't exactly earned starter's minutes ...
   1148. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 29, 2012 at 03:48 AM (#4070709)
Kobe is day-to-day with a concussion--has to go through the protocol to be cleared to play.
Feh. I don't ever root for an injury to a non-Kevin-McHale player, but one of the Laker bench guys should absolutely lay Wade out on Sunday. Oh, nothing too dirty, just a series of hard, hard fouls. I'll be disappointed if Wade doesn't end up on his back a few times on Sunday. He deserves it.
   1149. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 29, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4070887)
I dunno, I just don't see the Wade foul as that dirty. The only extenuating circumstance is that it was an All-Star came, but I feel like we see the bear hug fouls all the time during regular games; it was bad luck that Wade's arm caught Kobe's nose and head. But I know I'm not going to convince you or your petty blood lust, so...

---

It was a breath of fresh air seeing Rip play last night. He only played half of the first and third quarters, but his impact is very obvious. He looked pretty healthy, and dare I say, quite spry. He was moving off the ball and screens about as well as he ever has, and his passing really is still quite good. Also, it meant no JLIII. The Bulls' bench got their ass kicked by the Hornets' bench and the Bulls had a really bad night shooting 3's (most of which were of the open variety). Bulls are in SA tonight, and even if the Spurs don't have Manu or Splitter the Bulls are going to have to play much better to win.

I like what I see out of Ayon so far, he just needs time to learn. But he does appear to have a good feel for the game and plays under control. That was a really good signing by NO. And Kaman still has a lot left, he could really help a number of teams this year.

Once again, I would like to apologize on behalf of all Bulls fans for those of you who were subjected to Neil Funk and Stacey King on NBATV. Last night was actually one of their least obnoxious nights; it was odd hearing them compliment the Hornets throughout the game (how many times did they say "They play the game the right way"?) instead of mocking them for not being good.
   1150. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 29, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4070904)
Hayward hasn't exactly earned starter's minutes ...


He's played much better than either Howard or Bell, though. The Jazz need to get more minutes for their young players, but instead they're talking about cutting Hayward's minutes and reportedly are not looking to move either Jefferson or Millsap.
   1151. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 29, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4070908)
   1152. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 29, 2012 at 12:29 PM (#4070922)
But I know I'm not going to convince you or your petty blood lust, so...
Put Rose in that instance instead of Bryant. See how you feel.
   1153. andrewberg Posted: February 29, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4070966)
I don't want to start another Kobe flame war, and I think Wade could have probably eased up a bit. Still, Kobe is gunning for a pointless all star scoring record by playing twice as hard as everyone, and he gets hurt. Is that such a shock?

Sweetney- he trained at the Georgetown practice facilities in the summers when I was there. I never played against him directly, but I saw him working out and can say first hand that he worked incredibly hard. With his trainer, he played full court one on one games in one of those spandex bodysuits that wrestlers wear to drop weight. They'd go for 2 20 minute halves with no breaks. I don't think I could last ten minutes at that and he was going hard the whole time. He still wasn't fit at that time. I think he's just a guy whose body was not built to keep weight off.

I was not able to watch the Wolves beat the Clippers last night, but that is a solid win. Both teams were rested, as full strength as they'll be the rest of the year, and motivated to win. All of that, and the Wolves got down and still came out with a solid win. Of course, Beasley and Williams aren't going to go off like that every night, but the non-Rubio, Love, Pek parts of the team have been so wildly disappointing that a few hot nights from bench players are due. Now it's the Lakers tonight and @ Portland tomorrow in a very tough b2b2b out of the break that had the potential to really sink any playoff hopes. Winning the toughest one to start is pretty encouraging, though.
   1154. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 29, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4070978)
elton brand can't score. lavoy allen can't score. iguodala can't score. all meeks does is score, but he doesn't really do it all that well. but despite that lack of offensive ability, elton brand starts and jodie meeks starts.


That's not really borne out by the box score stats: here's the pts/36 for Philly's 10 rotation guys.
Williams 21, Young 17, Holiday, Vucevic and Hawes 14, Brand and Iguodala 13, Turner and Meeks 12, Allen 11.
Meeks is, fairly easily, the best floor spreader you've got (Iggy's 3pt% is a bit flukey and Meeks has a majority of his attempts from beyond the arc) - given Philly's relative weakness in that area, I'd want him on the floor for you than in the abstract.

Furthermore, Turner hasn't shown that he deserves more minutes. Of those 10 guys, Turner's last in WS/48 and ahead of only Meeks in PER (which, if you apply a three point adjustment, could reverse in order ... though accounting for the ability to create your own shot flips that right back). 82games' simple rating? Turner's last again. Basketballvalue's 2 yr adj +/-? Doesn't include the rookies, but Turner is ahead of only Hawes, who was useless before this year.
So, what does Turner do well as of now? Very good defensive rebounder. Solid defender (though (w/o consulting synergy) not outperforing the other Philly wings). Solid playmaker, though not in Iggy's league. Not a scorer, not a shooter (shooting 45% from two, 25% from three (not often), 65% from the line, not super often either - bad sign if you don't shoot threes or free throws). For now, he's a glue guy and decent backup - 24 minutes a game is arguably more than he should get, apart from for development purposes.
   1155. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 29, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4070979)
I think he's just a guy whose body was not built to keep weight off.
Agreed. It also looks like he gave up.
   1156. andrewberg Posted: February 29, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4070989)
Yeah, now he gave up. He gave it a hell of a good effort though.
   1157. robinred Posted: February 29, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4070990)
I don't want to start another Kobe flame war, and I think Wade could have probably eased up a bit. Still, Kobe is gunning for a pointless all star scoring record by playing twice as hard as everyone, and he gets hurt. Is that such a shock?


Abbott could not have done it much better--nice work. All you are missing is, "I bear Kobe no ill will, but..."

The fact is that ANY FANBASE would be pissed if their guy got a busted nose and a concussion in the third quarter, no less, of the fricking All-Star Game. Doesn't really matter if Kobe's a dick, or a rapist, or if Kobe was "gunning for a pointless all star scoring record" or whatever. The foul was unnecessary. If Wade needed to "send a message" he could have tried to dunk on Kobe, or he could have fouled him hard on Sunday. Simple.

   1158. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 29, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4070994)
Oh, I didn't include Tony Battie as a rotation guy. I'd like to think everyone can agree that he's useless.
   1159. andrewberg Posted: February 29, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4071005)
robin- I think that's a fair way to look at it, and it's possible that I'd feel the same way if one of my favorite players was in that position. Still, I don't think there's necessarily a judgment attached to saying that he ratcheted up the intensity which led to the physicality (which I agree was unnecessary). 23 out of 24 guys treated the game as an exhibition and left with their health, the 24th did neither. Maybe I'm predisposed to noticing these things because I already don't like him, but I think I would notice that if Rose was the guy acting maniacal in the alleyoop show.
   1160. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 29, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4071039)
That's not really borne out by the box score stats: here's the pts/36 for Philly's 10 rotation guys.
Williams 21, Young 17, Holiday, Vucevic and Hawes 14, Brand and Iguodala 13, Turner and Meeks 12, Allen 11.
Meeks is, fairly easily, the best floor spreader you've got (Iggy's 3pt% is a bit flukey and Meeks has a majority of his attempts from beyond the arc) - given Philly's relative weakness in that area, I'd want him on the floor for you than in the abstract.
there are 4 players on the sixers who take threes on a consistent basis, and all 4 are shooting between 38 and 40 percent. yeah, iguodala's proficiency is probably a bit flukey, but the types of 3 point shots he's attempting this year are of a much different variety than the ones he's taken in the past. because he's handling the ball less, he's shooting more off the catch, and it seems like it's made a huge difference.

meeks just isn't enough of a positive enough of the time. he shoots 3s, but he's not giving the team anything more than what williams or holiday are giving the team.


and i know what turner's numbers say, but i think he needs to be given the opportunity to grow. right now, a good game for him is 8 points, 6 rebounds, and 4 assists, and i think that's only reinforcing his tendency to settle for mediocrity. he needs to be challenged, and he just isn't right now.

and for everything that people want to knock him for not doing, he's still a wing with a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio and an elite ability to rebound on the defensive glass.
   1161. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 29, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4071044)
no talk about this yet?


In a game during the 2007-08 season, several players on the bench noted Howland's frustration with the shot selection of Westbrook, whose freelancing had resulted in several baskets. But rather than substituting for him, Howland informed one of the officials that Westbrook was wearing socks bearing an NBA logo, which violated NCAA uniform guidelines. Howland told the official he had an obligation to remove Westbrook from the game because of his socks. The official claimed to be unaware of the rule and let play continue.
   1162. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 29, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4071096)
Yeah, I read that article. Howland's got to be gone, right?

Turner's fine - but what's the compelling reason to play him now - presuming that you care about winning the division title?

TS%, Philly guards and wings:
Meeks .577, Williams .524, Iguodala .519, Holiday .491, Turner .471
I know you're not high on him this week, but Meeks is the only true "shooter" you have (not a knock on Williams or Holiday) - you need to leverage that.
   1163. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 29, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4071100)
I learned last night that the ownership group bidding to buy the Hornets is being led by Mike Dunleavy.

I haven't read this yet, but it's in the queue and is the type of piece Grantland does best.

I'm saddened to see that picture of Sweets. He looks awful. I really wish it had worked out better for him in Chicago, but he just didn't get much of a chance.

and for everything that people want to knock him for not doing, he's still a wing with a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio and an elite ability to rebound on the defensive glass.

Wow, I hadn't realized his DRR was so far and above ahead of every other SG (and SF, and all but 14PFs). Wow. I was a defender of his coming out of college, so I would like to see him get more time and continue to improve.
   1164. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 29, 2012 at 03:24 PM (#4071104)
   1165. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 29, 2012 at 03:38 PM (#4071119)
TS%, Philly guards and wings:
Meeks .577, Williams .524, Iguodala .519, Holiday .491, Turner .471
I know you're not high on him this week, but Meeks is the only true "shooter" you have (not a knock on Williams or Holiday) - you need to leverage that.
in this case, true shooting % is more of a reflection on shot selection than it is on the quality of the players taking the shots. the majority of jodie meeks' shots come from beyond the arc, while everyone else is capable of creating their own shots from inside of it.

if williams was shooting 32% from beyond the arc, and if iguodala was shooting 32% from beyond the arc, i'd be much more willing to acknowledge the importance of meeks being in the starting lineup, but with both of them (and jrue holiday) shooting at 38%, i just don't think meeks brings enough to the table right now to justify continuing to hold turner back.

Turner's fine - but what's the compelling reason to play him now - presuming that you care about winning the division title?
the sixers lost 5 in a row and 7 of the previous 9. it was just time to give turner (and thaddeus young) the nod.
   1166. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 29, 2012 at 04:38 PM (#4071179)
Wow, I hadn't realized his DRR was so far and above ahead of every other SG (and SF, and all but 14PFs). Wow. I was a defender of his coming out of college, so I would like to see him get more time and continue to improve.
yeah. there are only 16 players in the entire NBA that have played more minutes than turner and have a better DRR.
   1167. robinred Posted: February 29, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4071186)
23 out of 24 guys treated the game as an exhibition and left with their health, the 24th did neither.


___

Little one-on-one battles have always been a part of All-Star games. Wade could have let Bryant have the baseline, or just grabbed his waist, instead of doing what he did. Here's the play again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JCZtj7D18o

Take off the Haterglasses before you watch it, or picture Kevin Love's face where Kobe's was.
   1168. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 29, 2012 at 04:53 PM (#4071213)
I can see why you'd want to ride the hot hand of Turner (last 10 games: 30.8% shooting).

Iguodala has a long history of not being great from behind the arc (32.7% career), takes only about a quarter of his shots from there, and is a 61% shooter from the line (which correlates with "shooting skill"). I _really_ would not depend on that continuing. Holiday, yes, he's a pretty solid shooter from three - though not in Meeks' class imo - and that he takes so many more shots from other spots on the floor matters, both in terms of outcomes (see Meeks' large advantage in tsp) and in discerning where their talents lie (Meeks is a limited player, but he's demonstrated that he can hit threes while used as a specialist - Holiday's success is in less than half as many attempts per minute.)
Moreover, I'm not saying Holiday v. Meeks - I'm saying, the Sixers still have vulnerabilities from the outside (note!: they're 8th in the league in 3pt% - it's more than fair to question me here). Turner does squat to help with that. Moreover, I don't think playing Iggy + lesser Iggy (Evan) at the same time very often is a good idea.
   1169. andrewberg Posted: February 29, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4071215)
It is kind of a pointless debate to argue over whether he prompted a dirty foul or not, so I am just going to drop it. There are more interesting things to talk about today anyway. What do you expect tonight? Has Kobe been officially ruled out? I am hoping Love has a big game tonight. He didn't shoot well last night but at least he got some extra rest.
   1170. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 29, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4071263)
I can see why you'd want to ride the hot hand of Turner (last 10 games: 30.8% shooting).
the whole team has played like #### over the last 10 games, so he's not exactly in exclusive company.
(note!: they're 8th in the league in 3pt% - it's more than fair to question me here).
yeah, but they have an annoying tendency to prefer shooting from a step inside the 3 point line. even if their percentage dropped a little, they really would be much better off if they took more 3s.
Moreover, I don't think playing Iggy + lesser Iggy (Evan) at the same time very often is a good idea.
i don't think that's entirely correct. most of the sixers best lineups include the threesome of turner, iguodala, and thaddeus young at the 2-3-4. and almost all of those lineups excel defensively because of their ability to defend the perimeter.
   1171. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 29, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4071265)
I cannot believe this is still a thing. I don't think I heard any boos when he missed either FT, but the crowd was clearly agitated. It's a ####### Big Mac people, you're embarrassing yourselves.
   1172. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 29, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4071309)
even if their percentage dropped a little, they really would be much better off if they took more 3s.

No argument here.

I looked at Turner+Iggy v. Turner+notIggy combos according to basketballvalue's adj. +/- (note: small samples, huge errors) - the former outperformed the latter. [Technique was not so rigorous: ordered them by adj. +/- from hi to lo (this only includes ones w/ at least 25 min on the court, so not ones like the weird case where Turner was the four and Iggy the center for like a minute) - a "Y" means they were together and "N" means Iggy wasn't on the court: YNNYNNYYYN). Hardly conclusive evidence, but it doesn't contradict my null that that's a suboptimal combination.]
   1173. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 29, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4071312)
by the way, the sixers play the thunder tonight. iguodala v. durant. holiday v. westbrook. two of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA against two of the best perimeter scorers. ibaka v. thaddeus yonug. the most athletic post defender versus the most athletic post scorer.


it'd be really nice if the sixers showed up tonight.
   1174. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 29, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4071319)
I actually like that thing. Jack in the Box gives out free tacos whenever the Lakers scored 100 (which ain't often lately) and there used to be a guy who worked at a local shelter who would park himself outside Staples asking people to donate their ticket stubs after games.

Also, free food is always delicious because it's free. Even Dwayne Wade would understand this!
   1175. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 29, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4071321)
Wait - who's the most athletic post scorer? I like Thad a lot (go Jackets!) but... no.
   1176. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 29, 2012 at 05:59 PM (#4071343)
Wait - who's the most athletic post scorer? I like Thad a lot (go Jackets!) but... no.
who are the other candidates? thad is an absolute artist in the paint.
   1177. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 29, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4071377)
I'm not sure how you want to define post player or athleticism, but Blake Griffin comes to mind.

More importantly, how can they do this to Clipper Darrell!?
   1178. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 29, 2012 at 07:45 PM (#4071422)
Man, that's cruel, but so very Clipper of the Clippers to do that.

Kobe Bryant's going to be a game time decision, and I would be surprised if Mike Brown holds him out. Bryant's going to want to go, and Brown isn't going to want to say no to him.

Also, this:
The Minnesota Timberwolves offered to trade Michael Beasley to the Los Angeles Lakers for a first-round draft pick, but the Lakers turned them down, according to a league source.
...
Under the Timberwolves' proposal, the Lakers would have absorbed Beasley's contract into the trade exception they received from Dallas. In return, Minnesota asked for the Lakers' best first-round pick in the upcoming draft. In addition to their own pick, the Lakers own Dallas' first-round pick, as long as it is not within the first 20 selections.
The Lakers should have said yes.
   1179. Jimmy P Posted: February 29, 2012 at 07:52 PM (#4071426)
They should have said yes.


Someone on ESPN wrote an article about the most talked about potential trades (Howard, Gasol, Beasley, etc), and the thing that's making the Lakers think twice is that this sends them way into the luxury tax. So, adding Beasley is like a $12 million hit. The Lakers have been making attempts to save money lately.

Added: The article is Broussard, and it's Insider
   1180. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 29, 2012 at 07:53 PM (#4071427)
Abbott never got the memo that Rose is the new Kobe.
   1181. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 29, 2012 at 08:08 PM (#4071433)
game's about to tip. a few things i'd like to see:

1) westbrook and durant held to less than 50 combined points
2) westbrook, durant and harden held to a maximum of 15 FT attempts.
3) OKC forced into 15+ turnovers


   1182. madvillain Posted: February 29, 2012 at 08:21 PM (#4071439)
Abbott never got the memo that Rose is the new Kobe.


Best part of that article was Thib' quote:

"The beauty of his game is he studies what the team needs. If he feels like the team needs someone to distribute more, then that's what he'll do. If he feels like the team needs more scoring then that's what he'll do. ... You get to see him every day, you know how special he is."


Rose's bball IQ is a lot higher than it was even last season. He knows exactly how to attack the hard hedges and traps that teams try to employ against him. Even though he's not tall enough to really pass and see over the doubleteam I believe he knows at any given point almostly exactly where everyone else is on the floor.

That's credit to Rose, Thibs and the rest of the Bulls, to be that disciplined.

   1183. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 29, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4071445)
not a very impressive 1st quarter there. OKC got way too much off the offensive glass, and westbrook is just a dart going from end to end.
   1184. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: February 29, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4071449)
The Lakers should have said yes.

The Lakers, IMO, aren't likely to say yes to anything until the Howard situation is resolved- whatever that ultimately means. Until he goes to another team, it gets close enough to the deadline such that the Lakers won't wait anymore, or the Lakers get a clear sense that Howard won't play in LA- the Lakers are almost certainly going to sit tight.

If Orlando decides to deal, and asks for Bynum plus a piece the Lakers could have gotten with the exception- only the exception is (mostly) gone due to a Beasley trade- that will be a disaster. I would think everything is on hold for the Lakers until the Howard thing concludes. The Lakes only have a few assets, they can't afford to use any until the big ticket is (1) bought or (2) is off the market.

If the team stays as is, and looks to add a few parts for the playoffs, I would really like bringing in Beasley. It's certainly better than the Gasol for Rondo insanity making the rounds.
   1185. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 29, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4071500)
sixers dodged a huge bullet in the 2nd quarter after the thunder got in the penalty with 5+ minutes left, and the started the 2nd half on a 15-2 run.
   1186. madvillain Posted: February 29, 2012 at 09:43 PM (#4071509)
Wow. Shumpert didn't miss that one!
   1187. madvillain Posted: February 29, 2012 at 10:35 PM (#4071558)
That was the scariest 30 seconds of my life that were not immediately concerning me, my friends, or my family.

I thought Rose tore his ACL there. My god, knee on knee only, thank fugging God.
   1188. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 29, 2012 at 10:37 PM (#4071564)
that was a pretty ####### awful way to lose a game. the sixers offensive execution in the last 6 minutes was just unspeakably awful. the blame is on everyone, too. meeks couldn't hit a shot, lou wouldn't take a shot, thad and elton couldn't control the defensive glass, vucevic had just a horrendous turnover.


   1189. madvillain Posted: February 29, 2012 at 10:40 PM (#4071568)
Wow, things are getting chippy in SA. Started with Rose and Parker, now Deng and Parker getting into it.
   1190. madvillain Posted: February 29, 2012 at 10:57 PM (#4071582)
It's crazy what Jordan did for Chicago's fanbase. Tonight' game is in SA, and I'm guessing 30% of the crowd is Pro-Bulls. Sure, it helps having Rose and an elite team, but the Jordan affect was residual, alot of people were just looking for an excuse to follow the Bulls again IMO.
   1191. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 29, 2012 at 11:07 PM (#4071599)
What a turnaround in the second half by the Knicks. So much credit goes to Novak, Baron, Shump and Jeffries on this one.
   1192. andrewberg Posted: February 29, 2012 at 11:08 PM (#4071600)
I suppose westbrook's offensive rebounds and the poor offense did not Dianne steagles' mind about Turner.

Wow, going from thinking Kobe and bynum might be out to love being ruled out is a big swing in expectations.
   1193. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 29, 2012 at 11:48 PM (#4071626)
BTW, Jeremy Lin goes for 19-13-5 and just one turnover. Yum.
   1194. robinred Posted: February 29, 2012 at 11:54 PM (#4071631)
KBros update via John Ireland: Minnesota wanted two 1st-round picks, not one, but Lakers are still concerned about money.

   1195. robinred Posted: March 01, 2012 at 02:38 AM (#4071678)
Everyone knows, but a reminder: guys who signed this year can now be traded as well, since it is now March 1.
   1196. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: March 01, 2012 at 11:51 AM (#4071775)
I'll take the win in SA, although it wasn't pretty for long stretches. While the Spurs were without Ginobli, Neal did a helluva Manu impression down the stretch. He scored 15 of 17 points in one stretch - outside and inside, almost perfectly mimicking Manu's stuttering, change of speed drives, only right-handed *AND* he was switched onto Rose defensively (since Tony Parker showed no interest whatsoever in even pretending to try and stay in front of Rose) helping to force the ball out of his hands late. Just a great performance. Between that and a bunch of early 3's from Danny Green, I'm once again jealous of how many guards the Spurs can just find laying around. Duncan looked like peak Duncan for a stretch of the 3rd quarter, but didn't have it the whole game. If Duncan puts some stretches like that together in the postseason (and they're healthy), the Spurs just might be the Thunder's biggest threat in the West.
   1197. Jimmy P Posted: March 01, 2012 at 12:20 PM (#4071827)
Simmons has the President on his podcast
   1198. robinred Posted: March 01, 2012 at 12:27 PM (#4071839)
Simmons has the President on his podcast

Well, at least that means one guy with a good speaking voice will be on.

ESPN's front page has a gigantic pic of Simmons and Obama.
   1199. Jimmy P Posted: March 01, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4071890)
Everyone knows, but a reminder: guys who signed this year can now be traded as well, since it is now March 1.


Alright, let's get some trades going!
   1200. Manny Coon Posted: March 01, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4071901)
More importantly, how can they do this to Clipper Darrell!?


Below is part of the Clippers statement about the situation. Basically he was cashing in on public appearances and other commercial activities using the Clippers name and trademark and repeatedly refused offers to consult with the organization about these activities. The Clippers have a bad reputation, but I don't think they are being unreasonable this time.

We have had multiple conversations with him concerning his inappropriate use of the Clippers’ team name and trademark for his own unmonitored commercial gain. We have spoken to him repeatedly about his desire to make public appearances in ways which improperly suggest that he is officially affiliated with our organization. In all cases and over a long period of time, he has consistently rejected our efforts to operate in consultation.

In a conversation with an authoritative and tenured Clippers’ executive last week, he was asked again to either consult with the team on all public appearances and/or commercial ventures, or stop undertaking those opportunities representing himself inappropriately. His response was an offer to stop representing himself commercially in that way and his offer was accepted in principle.
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