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Friday, February 03, 2012

OT: NBA Monthly Thread, February 2012

I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the inevitable dominance of the Philadelphia 76ers, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the pharmaceutical industry, allergies, and obscure movies.

Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 03, 2012 at 04:46 AM | 1392 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: phillies, twins

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   601. madvillain Posted: February 13, 2012 at 10:34 PM (#4060317)
I know that's early, but its obvious in this shortened season that the much smarter move would have been to hire Shaw. I'm not saying that Brown's offense is a complete disaster because of his philosophy, but there is no way he could even implement what he wanted in such a shortened season with a veteran team and no PG.


I'm not really sure why they hired Brown. I was never impressed with his offense, and if you want to hire a defensive coach, there are plenty of good ones who probably would have come to the Lakers as a highly paid assistant to work for Shaw.

Furthermore, Brown doesn't seem to be the type of coach that has the gravitas to handle Kobe. I think maybe Collins, Rivers, Thibs, Brown (Larry) and Pop would be the only ones that could, just off the top of my head.

It's not like the list is long, but if you're the Lakers if you don't go in-house with Shaw, you either go big or go home. I think Brown was a big name, someone they could sell the fans, but I just don't see what in his record points towards him as an elite coach, the sort that is more than "just along for the ride" as he seemed to be in Cleveland with Lebron.
   602. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 13, 2012 at 10:38 PM (#4060320)
jrue holiday played 36 minutes and had 1 assist.
andre iguodala played 35 minutes and had 3 points.


as much as i talk them up, this team is just not good enough to sleep through the 2nd half like they did tonight and still expect to win.

they came out with the win tonight, but they really didn't deserve to. the new jersey loss was bad, and the heat losses have been tough to stomach, but this was their worst game of the season. they just did not play up to the standards they've set this year.
   603. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: February 13, 2012 at 10:54 PM (#4060328)
Melo's comments seems pretty standard for him, IMO. The whole "give me the ball and make space" thing is his MO. He's a great scorer, and playing him at as a point forward was beyond dumb. The really great players (IMO), and every great PG, have a sense of when to get theirs and when to get others involved. Rose, Paul and Lebron, Dirk and Wade are excellent this way. Billups during they Piston's heyday was great at it as well.


Sheesh! Melo can't win! He said give Jeremy the ball and make space:

It's easy; give him the ball and space out. I get back to doing what I know how to do best. So we'll see.


One thing I was wondering about Lin. How valuable of an asset/trade chip is he right now? Could he, for instance, be the central part of a trade for Nash? I'm not suggesting either club do that, but I'm pretty curious about what people think about his current value.
   604. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 13, 2012 at 10:55 PM (#4060329)
I think Brown was a big name, someone they could sell the fans, but I just don't see what in his record points towards him as an elite coach, the sort that is more than "just along for the ride" as he seemed to be in Cleveland with Lebron.

Heh.
   605. robinred Posted: February 13, 2012 at 10:58 PM (#4060331)
If anyone else in that family needs to run that team, it really needs to be Jennie.


Rumor there is that Old Man Buss, a long-time crony of Hugh Hefner, has kind of a 70s Playboy mansion mentality (Buss supposedly has a photo album of his various conquests) and even though Jeannie is smarter than Jimmy, Jimmy got the gig based in large part on gender. Of course, IIRC Hef put his daughter in charge of Playboy (although I think Hef has no sons).

Don't know if that is true, but that has always been the scuttlebutt--Jeannie is smarter and nicer and would let the hoops peeps do their job if she ran the show.
   606. robinred Posted: February 13, 2012 at 11:57 PM (#4060355)
Mark Cuban must have looked at the standings and realized another LA team is ahead of Dallas:

DALLAS -- Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban, who was vocal in his opposition to the proposed trade that would have sent Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers, still doesn't think the NBA-owned New Orleans Hornets ended up with a decent deal. The right deal, in Cuban's opinion, would have been none at all, even if that meant losing Paul for nothing at the end of the season. "You're better off just taking the cap room, or whatever," Cuban said. Paul ended up being traded to the Los Angeles Clippers, who visited the Mavericks at the American Airlines Center on Monday night.
"I don't think it was about the Lakers, per se," Cuban said before the game. "I think it was just the way they did the deal, which was ridiculous. I don't think it was about which team. I think it was the fact that, even with the Clippers, we just went through this whole (collective bargaining agreement) and said the incumbent team still has the advantage and then the team the league owns (wimps) out. And look how it's worked out for them."
   607. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: February 14, 2012 at 12:39 AM (#4060368)

Rumor there is that Old Man Buss, a long-time crony of Hugh Hefner, has kind of a 70s Playboy mansion mentality (Buss supposedly has a photo album of his various conquests) and even though Jeannie is smarter than Jimmy, Jimmy got the gig based in large part on gender. Of course, IIRC Hef put his daughter in charge of Playboy (although I think Hef has no sons).

Don't know if that is true, but that has always been the scuttlebutt--Jeannie is smarter and nicer and would let the hoops peeps do their job if she ran the show.


I don't really want to get into it, but I know a couple of people who can/probably will answer this question wrt Hef and, I suppose, Buss. I'll be sure to ask the next time I see them.
   608. Tripon Posted: February 14, 2012 at 12:55 AM (#4060371)
I'm disappointed in Cuban, and find it hypocritical. When the Mavs wanted to add money or pay a player they found a way to do it, and then they traded multiple players for better ones. Or did Cuban forget he traded Devin Harris and dreck (you could argue the Mavs just traded dreck) for Jason Kidd?
   609. Tripon Posted: February 14, 2012 at 01:40 AM (#4060385)
Can Jeremy keep on Dribb-lin?
   610. robinred Posted: February 14, 2012 at 01:55 AM (#4060388)
I don't really want to get into it, but I know a couple of people who can/probably will answer this question wrt Hef and, I suppose, Buss. I'll be sure to ask the next time I see them.


Well, I know that Old Buss and Hefner are by all accounts buddies. The rest is just internet gossip/spec. Have seen it around many times.
   611. JuanGone..except1game Posted: February 14, 2012 at 02:29 AM (#4060391)
I'm disappointed in Cuban, and find it hypocritical. When the Mavs wanted to add money or pay a player they found a way to do it, and then they traded multiple players for better ones. Or did Cuban forget he traded Devin Harris and dreck (you could argue the Mavs just traded dreck) for Jason Kidd?


I have been fiercly in the anti-Cuban camp for years and I can't see why people still like the guy other than that he's younger than the other owners. It's been reported by multiple sources that he was one of the loudest "stick it to the players and let's lose the season" proponents in the lockout, for years has been ######## about Stern's power but owe how he loves it when its used to nix a deal for a competitor and know he's even crapping on the Clippers deal. Cuban's a doodie head.

Jeannie is smarter and nicer and would let the hoops peeps do their job if she ran the show.


Everything here and much prettier than Jimmy too.
   612. robinred Posted: February 14, 2012 at 02:44 AM (#4060392)
even crapping on the Clippers deal


Well, that's the thing: the Clippers are his competitor now.

Also, Paul's being off the market hurts Cuban. He is going to have a tough time clearing enough cap space to sign two big-time FAs, and Howard and Williams will likely try to end up on the same team. Cuban might well pull it off, but having the other superstar PG on the market might have been a nice fallback for him. Paul's being on the Clippers has taken that option away from him, while also creating a buzzy, blingy, pretty young and pretty damn good team that can leverage the LA market to get extra pieces.

Cuban on Dec 9:

_________

Cuban has been trying for years to trade for Paul but said he would have understood the league's decision to deny a trade even if the Mavericks would have agreed to a deal to get Paul.

"I mean, obviously, I wouldn't have been happy, but I would have understood because it was a conversation a lot of owners had long before the Laker deal was consummated," Cuban said. "It was like, 'Look, sure, I'd love him. Give him to me in a heartbeat.' But the whole idea of the lockout was to prevent stuff like that.

"Players will always have the right to choose what they want to do as a free agent, but the players agreed to rules that said, 'You know what? Let's give the home team, the incumbent team an extra advantage.' And that's how the rules were designed. I think they're going to work."

_________
   613. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 14, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4060530)
My guess is Thibs and Pax are on the exact same letter of the same word as the same page with everything, injuries included.

Possibly. I think Pax should be taking a much bigger picture approach - he should be the one to tell Thibs, "Dumbass, it's the Hornets and they're missing 3 starters. Sit him down."

they came out with the win tonight, but they really didn't deserve to.

Charlotte is a great team to have a horrible game against but still get a win. They're easily the worst team in the league - they've lost to the Wizards twice now. They've lost 15 in a row.

"I don't think it was about the Lakers, per se," Cuban said before the game. "I think it was just the way they did the deal, which was ridiculous. I don't think it was about which team. I think it was the fact that, even with the Clippers, we just went through this whole (collective bargaining agreement) and said the incumbent team still has the advantage and then the team the league owns (wimps) out. And look how it's worked out for them."

GFY, Mark. Last year you were against them adding talent, because of the chance the Mavs would play them in the playoffs. You were against the Lakers deal for similar reasons. Now the Clippers are good, you're against it. ####, you benefited directly from the veto since the Lakers gave you Odom. I assume this means you're not going to pursue Howard or Williams in the offeason.
   614. robinred Posted: February 14, 2012 at 12:01 PM (#4060570)
Well, I was wrong about Hugh Hefner's not having a son:

Marston Hefner, the 21-year-old son of Playboy don Hugh Hefner, was arrested in a Los Angeles suburb Sunday night for allegedly assaulting Playmate Claire Sinclair.

   615. robinred Posted: February 14, 2012 at 12:01 PM (#4060574)
deleted double post
   616. JJ1986 Posted: February 14, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4060581)
I thought the Clipper trade was ridiculous, and Cuban being wrong about other stuff (including the Laker trade) doesn't make him wrong here. The Hornets got a guy who's not playing, a guy who they won't play, a draft pick that will slot around 11-14 and a scrub. That's not fair value at all.
   617. Jimmy P Posted: February 14, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4060587)
I thought the Clipper trade was ridiculous, and Cuban being wrong about other stuff (including the Laker trade) doesn't make him wrong here. The Hornets got a guy who's not playing, a guy who they won't play, a draft pick that will slot around 11-14 and a scrub. That's not fair value at all.


Well, they never were going to get fair value. You just can't. I just find it laughable that the league thought this was the better deal.

Cuban's got a point, though. One of the tenets of the lockout for the owner's was for teams to keep their stars. And immediately after the lockout one is traded and another has been speculated on all season.
   618. Jimmy P Posted: February 14, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4060590)
Things are not going well here in Rip City. Nate is facing a lot of bad press, and he may not survive much longer if fortunes don't change.

Or he may. Who knows what the hell Blazer management is going to do?
   619. andrewberg Posted: February 14, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4060597)
Nate is facing a lot of bad press, and he may not survive much longer if fortunes don't change.


MacMillan and the Kings arena situation on the rocks, possibly freed up for next year, all at the same time. I am going to go ahead and read too much into that now.
   620. robinred Posted: February 14, 2012 at 12:30 PM (#4060612)
Cuban's got a point, though.


Whether he has a point isn't important. The key issue, as Moses suggests, is that by opening his mouth about it in the way he has
--again--Cuban is simply drawing a bright line under the conflict of interest problem. It is particularly glaring in his case, since, like Jim Buss, his star is aging and he needs a top-tier FA or two if he is going to stay on top. He wants the same guys the Lakers wanted/want and is openly manuevering to get them, and also wanted one of these same guys, whom the Clippers now have, and whom he openly spoke out against the Lakers being able to acquire.

Also, Paul almost certainly wasn't staying in NO, even if the league had kept him. Cuban probably knows that.

As to the deal, though, the jury is still out. Yes, Minnesota's pick is likely going to be much lower than Stern would like, but that was obvious when the league pulled the trigger. Eric Gordon probably will want to leave, but he is an RFA so they can keep him if they want to. They might get something when they flip Kaman, and they are currently #2 in the Anthony Davis sweepstakes.

But the problem with conflict of interest is that it creates untenable situations based strictly on appearance. Suppose the Wolves are in the lottery and their pick comes in higher than you would expect based on their probable record--say #5. Doesn't mean the league rigged it, but how does that look? Who makes the call on matching for Eric Gordon--Demps, or Stern? And do we know for sure that they won't have some agendas in making that call? And even if there is a new owner in place, how do we know Stern won't have influence over that? When Demps talked to the Clippers initially, Olshey refused to give up either Gordon or the pick. Dealing with the league, he gave up both. If NO ends up with the second-worst record in the league and wins the lottery, that obviously shouldn't raise any eyebrows, but now, it will raise a few.

As a Lakers fan, I am obviously very biased about this issue. But so is Cuban, and so, now, is the league. And that's the problem.
   621. Jimmy P Posted: February 14, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4060632)
Eric Gordon probably will want to leave, but he is an RFA so they can keep him if they want to

I wouldn't. Not for the price someone's going to overpay him.

He's going to have surgery here in the next day or two. Reportedly, he's going to miss an additional six weeks. I'm betting he doesn't play again this season
   622. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 14, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4060702)
Things are not going well here in Rip City. Nate is facing a lot of bad press, and he may not survive much longer if fortunes don't change.

Or he may. Who knows what the hell Blazer management is going to do?
i don't really know how much of that should be on the coach. the two lead guards that management brought in this season are shooting a combined 38% from the floor with an assist to turnover ratio just barely above 2:1. that's absolutely horrid, but i think don't think you can really put all the blame for that on the coach.
   623. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 14, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4060715)
Bulls re-signed Mike James. That's not a good sign (they probably shouldn't have cut him in the first place; cheap bastards).
   624. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 14, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4060731)
Things are not going well here in Rip City. Nate is facing a lot of bad press, and he may not survive much longer if fortunes don't change.

That what happens when the fandom overrates a hot start; hell, you bought into it. That being said, Hollinger wrote about them the other day. And they do have the best point differential in the West.
   625. Jimmy P Posted: February 14, 2012 at 01:40 PM (#4060739)
hell, you bought into it.

They looked pretty awesome.

And they do have the best point differential in the West.

So it's not completely unfounded.

that's absolutely horrid, but i think don't think you can really put all the blame for that on the coach.

The blame's coming in that he keeps playing them. And starting Felton. Nate's been criticized for years about not playing young guys, and now that Felton is horrible and Nolan Smith and Elliot Williams are barely playing, he's getting killed for it. As he is for being incredibly critical of Batum, but letting Felton and Wes Matthews continue to play tons.

I heard on the radio yesterday that one of the reasons Cho was shown the door was because he told Paul Allen that this is not a competitive roster and he wanted to turn the team over. Looks like he was right. They really need someone that can knock down some threes.
   626. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 14, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4060764)
The blame's coming in that he keeps playing them. And starting Felton. Nate's been criticized for years about not playing young guys, and now that Felton is horrible and Nolan Smith and Elliot Williams are barely playing, he's getting killed for it. As he is for being incredibly critical of Batum, but letting Felton and Wes Matthews continue to play tons.

I heard on the radio yesterday that one of the reasons Cho was shown the door was because he told Paul Allen that this is not a competitive roster and he wanted to turn the team over. Looks like he was right. They really need someone that can knock down some threes.


I'm not buying the "not a competitive roster". They have a borderline superstar who certainly has the potential to be a top-5 NBA player. They have a variety of good contributors around him and plenty of depth. Gerald Wallace, by conventional wisdom, is a decent second banana (I happen to think he's overrated). Obviously they're not at that level yet, but they seem to have a good blueprint for a true contender and have plenty of talent on hand. What's happened with Roy and Oden sucks, but I don't think you need to tear the team up. I don't know whether the improvement needs to come from the coach, or the training staff, or the front office, but this doesn't look to me like a team stuck in purgatory the way that, say, the Bucks or Warriors are, or the Hornets with Paul, or whatever.

Nolan Smith and Elliot Williams are bench contributors at best. I get the point that you might want to find out for sure given Felton's performance but it's not like some hotshot prospect isn't getting playing time here.
   627. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 14, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4060828)
They have a borderline superstar who certainly has the potential to be a top-5 NBA player. They have a variety of good contributors around him and plenty of depth. Gerald Wallace, by conventional wisdom, is a decent second banana (I happen to think he's overrated). Obviously they're not at that level yet, but they seem to have a good blueprint for a true contender and have plenty of talent on hand. What's happened with Roy and Oden sucks, but I don't think you need to tear the team up.
I don't think you can underplay the Roy/Oden circumstance. I picked Portland 7th in the West, so I was shocked when they ran out to the massive start, but… does anyone really think Ray Felton is a contender-level point guard? I'm a huge Wallace fan, and Aldridge has become a terrific player, but the rest of that roster falls into the good-not-great category. With Roy and Oden, and having Matthews and Batum come off the bench, that's a Finals team for sure. It's not their fault that Roy's done and Oden can't go, but that's the way it is. That roster's competitive for a 4-6 playoff spot, but not for a championship.
   628. madvillain Posted: February 14, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4060840)
Rose is out tonight. Worst 26-7 start to the season ever.
   629. andrewberg Posted: February 14, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4060861)
It's not their fault that Roy's done and Oden can't go, but that's the way it is.


I don't completely absolve them of guilt for those cases. Roy was a gamble because doctors were saying when he came into the league that he might only be able to play for about 5 years before his knees gave out. They gambled, it worked better than they expected at first, then fell apart as predicted. Oden didn't have the same preexisting knee issues, but there were some red flags, he walked with a limp, he had one leg that was much shorter than the other, and he had lingering injuries through his one year of college. Again, they opted to assume the known injury risk. And didn't Elliott Williams have a knee injury when they used a first round pick on him? It just seemed like there was a lot of data points to suggest that management didn't treat medical red flags as nearly the deterrent that other teams did.
   630. Jimmy P Posted: February 14, 2012 at 03:06 PM (#4060864)
And didn't Elliott Williams have a knee injury when they used a first round pick on him?

Pretty sure that happened after he was drafted.

It just seemed like there was a lot of data points to suggest that management didn't treat medical red flags as nearly the deterrent that other teams did.

That was one of the criticisms of Pritchard
   631. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 14, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4060872)
How do the Laker fans here feel about the potential acquisition of The Agent Formerly Known As Zero? I've seen a bunch of sarcastic tweets/comments about it from "smart" NBA analysts/bloggers and I don't get why people feel the need to kill the idea of such a move. Is it that hard to believe he might be an upgrade from the corpse of Derek Fisher? Sometimes it seems people get wrapped up in finding THE answer and refuse to settle for finding an answer, if that makes any sense.
   632. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 14, 2012 at 03:14 PM (#4060881)
Cuban's a doodie head.


But is he a big fraud who poops his pants?
   633. robinred Posted: February 14, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4060897)
How do the Laker fans here feel about the potential acquisition of The Agent Formerly Known As Zero?


I pretty much agree with The Mamba on this one: "It wouldn't hurt."

But like you said, the key is Fisher. If they try Arenas, I would want them to start Blake, and use Arenas and Goudelock to back up Blake and Bryant, with Fisher going to the end of the bench. If they just sign Arenas and use him to take Goudelock's minutes, then I don't see it helping.

In theory, Arenas makes sense: combo guard, veteran, can create off the dribble, play with Kobe as the 1 or off the ball, presumably humbled a bit and looking for a little more time in the league, LA native. Whether he has enough left in reality to help and will be OK in the clubhouse...no way to know. If he looked good in the workout, though, I would give it a shot. If they actually get Sessions or someone decent in a few weeks, and Arenas isn't helping, they can just cut him.
   634. robinred Posted: February 14, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4060900)
Rose is out tonight.


I think he will be OK and of course I hope he is. But, I can see why Chicago fans are worried--back trouble is always an issue, even for a young world-class jock.
   635. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 14, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4060911)
Worst 26-7 start to the season ever.

It's not all bad; I can't believe they're ranked so high offensively.

I think he will be OK and of course I hope he is. But, I can see why Chicago fans are worried--back trouble is always an issue, even for a young world-class jock.

He missed 4 games total his first 3 years, tonight is number 8 this season. So it's not like he's close to being labeled injury prone yet. As I mentioned the other day though, the types of injuries he's dealing with - back spasms, tendinitis, whatever the #### is wrong with his toe - are things that could linger and stick with you for a long time. He may very well be dealing with these things his whole career, which would be a shame.
   636. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 14, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4060961)
I'm a huge Wallace fan, and Aldridge has become a terrific player, but the rest of that roster falls into the good-not-great category.


But you don't need a roster of great players to win a championship. Nobody has a roster of great players. Batum, Matthews, and Camby are all easily good enough to start for a championship team as supporting players. Crawford's a great 6th man, warts and all. Felton would be fine coming off the bench. Even if the pieces don't fit and they could use a dead-eye 3 guy (as Jimmy noted), if you have the top 1-2 players in place and significant talent outside of them, you shouldn't tear things down, you should be looking for the right piece or two to add or trade one of your misfit toys for.

Brandon Roy is not walking through that door, and Greg Oden probably can't walk at all, but that absolutely doesn't mean you should just give up.
   637. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 14, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4061089)
RT @TweetBroChill "Don't worry baby, I'm the kind of guy you can take home to mom." -Delonte West #NBAValentines

"Hey girl, I got you some chocolate and flowers for Valentine's Day. Actually, just flowers." -Eddy Curry #NBAValentines

"I need you back. My friends say I should rebound, but I don't know what that is." -Amare Stoudemire @NBAValentines

"I bought you some red roses. Not one. Not two. Not three. Not four. Not five. Not six. A dozen." - Lebron James #NBAValentines
   638. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 14, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4061108)
But you don't need a roster of great players to win a championship. Nobody has a roster of great players. Batum, Matthews, and Camby are all easily good enough to start for a championship team as supporting players.
That's my point. They were supposed to be supporting players... for Roy and Oden. Aldridge is excellent, but I don't see him as a guy who can strap a team on his back. I love Wallace, but he's more like the world's greatest complimentary player than the head of the spear.

I suppose you can criticize Portland for taking chances on a couple of guys who were injury risks, but I see it as a team taking a chance on talent. It was hard to break into that top tier where the Kobe-Gasol Lakers ruled for so long with the Duncan/Manu/Parker Spurs and Nash/STAT Suns, not to mention the Yao/McGrady Rockets and the Dirk/Kidd Mavs. Portland needed to gather superlative talent, and that meant taking some chances. In retrospect, it didn't work out for them, but I can't fault them for throwing their lot in with Roy and Oden.
   639. andrewberg Posted: February 14, 2012 at 06:54 PM (#4061133)
In retrospect, it didn't work out for them, but I can't fault them for throwing their lot in with Roy and Oden.


That's fine, and I agree that swinging for the fences is admirable. At the same time, it's not just that we look back in retrospect, shrug our shoulders and say "oh well, didn't work out." There was ample evidence available at the time that these talents were going to break their hearts; everyone's eyes were wide open to that expectation at the time. It's revisionist history to sit here today and act befuddled that all of these great supporting pieces were expertly acquired, but aww shucks, the stars didn't align.

I guess the bigger question is what you do with that information. Think of it this way- Portland is a franchise that was lucky to squeeze one title out of Walton before his feet calcified and took Bowie over Jordan, then had to live with that nightmare. How about next time you're in the lottery, you don't put all of your eggs in the injury prone basket. Oden/Durant was obviously debatable at the time, and since the already took a huge risk on Roy, why double down? Even when they took (traded for) Roy, Rudy Gay was picked two slots later. Having one or the other of those guys would drastically change their fortunes.
   640. madvillain Posted: February 14, 2012 at 07:01 PM (#4061137)
That's fine, and I agree that swinging for the fences is admirable. At the same time, it's not just that we look back in retrospect, shrug our shoulders and say "oh well, didn't work out." There was ample evidence available at the time that these talents were going to break their hearts; everyone's eyes were wide open to that expectation at the time. It's revisionist history to sit here today and act befuddled that all of these great supporting pieces were expertly acquired, but aww shucks, the stars didn't align.


I know Roy's injuries were well documented. But Oden? Seems like a total gut punch. He had no history of knee problems until the NBA and no history of foot problems either. For a 7 footer, that's about as clean of bill of health as it gets.

It's hard to remember now, but at the time the convential wisdom was Oden was a once a decade center. Just bad luck for them, although I guess big men are inherently more prone to injury than shorter players.
   641. Jimmy P Posted: February 14, 2012 at 07:10 PM (#4061145)
Even when they took (traded for) Roy, Rudy Gay was picked two slots later.

But Roy's better than Gay. Just because doctors say a guy could have knee problems doesn't mean he will. Medicine's an inexact science. If you think Roy is better than Gay, and he wasn't hurt at the time, I think you have to take him there.

Let's go this way: say they would've taken Shane Battier instead of Roy. Pritchard is out there saying, "We like Brandon and we know he's from close by and played at UW, but the docs just didn't like his knee." Then Roy goes out and has a 15 year career. How much criticism would they take then?

I don't think this Blazer team needs to be torn down, nor do I think it was really built to have Roy and Oden. Oden was a miracle shot for this season, and I don't know anyone who watched Roy last year and thought he'd be the same. Felton's not a great player or fit, but they had to take him to get Wallace. Wallace is a good player, but if he's the 2nd option on offense, the team is going to struggle. Since Matthews, Felton, and Crawford are all not playing great, that's the situation. I'd hope the Blazers would parlay some of these pieces into one or two guys, but no one knows what happens with the Vulcans.
   642. Jimmy P Posted: February 14, 2012 at 07:14 PM (#4061147)
I know Roy's injuries were well documented. But Oden? Seems like a total gut punch. He had no history of knee problems until the NBA and no history of foot problems either. For a 7 footer, that's about as clean of bill of health as it gets.

Everyone here is going to tell you because he has different length legs, it guarantees he'd have problems.

Who cares that most people have different length legs, or that people that don't have that have knee problems, or that guys who are guaranteed to have problems don't always do *cough* Dejuan Blair *cough*
   643. andrewberg Posted: February 14, 2012 at 07:25 PM (#4061153)
He had no history of knee problems until the NBA and no history of foot problems either. For a 7 footer, that's about as clean of bill of health as it gets.


Yes and no. He didn't have any knee or foot injuries, but all of the high school scouting reports before he was at tOSU talked about how he could have been a much more dominant offensive force if he hadn't had a lingering sprained wrist. All of his college scouting reports were about how he could have been much better if he hadn't broken his hand. Then he started having knee problems in summer league. Then it carried into his rookie year. That tells me two things: a lot of the scouting was projection (and there is all kinds of wistful "he is starting to show the hunger" sentiment that amounts to little more than scout cheering) because he was never healthy enough to gauge his skills, and his body is not put together all that well. That's not a personal attack; some people's bodies break down a lot. Maybe he didn't have enough milk as a kid. I don't know, I'm not a doctor. But I will repeat my earlier point. If a team is snake-bitten, hypersensitive about injuries, and already relying on one highly volatile health guy, then these are the things they should be triple checking.
   644. Into the Void Posted: February 14, 2012 at 07:26 PM (#4061154)
Let's go this way: say they would've taken Shane Battier instead of Roy. Pritchard is out there saying, "We like Brandon and we know he's from close by and played at UW, but the docs just didn't like his knee." Then Roy goes out and has a 15 year career. How much criticism would they take then?]


I get your point, and completely agree they have to take Roy in that situation, but I don't think any organization (or person, for that matter) should be making decisions based on the possible criticism they'll receive if they don't make whatever the consensus choice is. And in defense of Portland's decisions, I highly doubt that there are many NBA teams that pass on the most talented options available because a doctor says something "might" happen five years from now.
   645. andrewberg Posted: February 14, 2012 at 07:30 PM (#4061155)
But Roy's better than Gay. Just because doctors say a guy could have knee problems doesn't mean he will. Medicine's an inexact science. If you think Roy is better than Gay, and he wasn't hurt at the time, I think you have to take him there.


But Roy's NOT better than Gay. Roy is more talented than Gay, but health is a skill and it's part of overall quality. To this point, Bynum has had all of the tools of an elite center except the durability, and that means he has not been an elite center. If you calculated expected year to year values of Roy vs. Gay, Gay is going to come out ahead every time because there would be a large number of trials that came out with zero value for Roy after the first few years.
   646. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 14, 2012 at 07:39 PM (#4061159)
There was ample evidence available at the time that these talents were going to break their hearts; everyone's eyes were wide open to that expectation at the time. It's revisionist history to sit here today and act befuddled that all of these great supporting pieces were expertly acquired, but aww shucks, the stars didn't align.
I just don't know how you hedge your bets here. The talent is waiting to be drafted, and you either draft him or you don't.

Oden/Durant was obviously debatable at the time, and since the already took a huge risk on Roy, why double down?
1. At the time, I don't think the common perception of Roy was that of a ticking time bomb. On the contrary, ESPN didn't even mention it in their draft night analysis of Roy. A year later, Dime Magazine made him the #1 pick in their redraft, and didn't mention his knees then, either. Neither did AOL or NBADraft.net. When Oden went into the draft, Roy's knees weren't a big issue, and they certainly weren't a career-threatening one.

2. Like Matt pointed out, nearly everyone would have picked Oden first, and Oden's problems had nothing to do with his feet or knees.

3. At the time, Portland was lousy with forwards. They were trying to trade Z-Bo, they just got Aldridge, and they had Outlaw and Webster as well. What they didn't have was a front line center. Between Oden's talent and their roster needs, it was a pretty easy decision for Portland.
   647. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 14, 2012 at 07:50 PM (#4061163)
If a team is snake-bitten, hypersensitive about injuries, and already relying on one highly volatile health guy, then these are the things they should be triple checking.
Different administrations presided over Walton, Bowie and Oden. The fanbase may feel snake-bitten and hypersensitive about injuries, but franchise management shouldn't be hamstrung with that kind of fear.
   648. andrewberg Posted: February 14, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4061164)
1. At the time, I don't think the common perception of Roy was that of a ticking time bomb.


His draft express profile has 12 mentions of his knee. His college scouting report says that his lingering knee problem is his biggest weakness, and Jonathan Givony asked him specifically about his knee in their one-on-one conversation.

3. At the time, Portland was lousy with forwards. They were trying to trade Z-Bo, they just got Aldridge, and they had Outlaw and Webster as well. What they didn't have was a front line center. Between Oden's talent and their roster needs, it was a pretty easy decision for Portland.


Fair enough, but Webster and Outlaw weren't blocking a franchise SF.
   649. madvillain Posted: February 14, 2012 at 08:04 PM (#4061169)
Yes and no. He didn't have any knee or foot injuries, but all of the high school scouting reports before he was at tOSU talked about how he could have been a much more dominant offensive force if he hadn't had a lingering sprained wrist. All of his college scouting reports were about how he could have been much better if he hadn't broken his hand.


I don't really like talking about this topic as IMO it's mostly circular. A guy is injury prone? Because he gets injured alot. Why does he get injured alot? Cause he's injury prone. And around and around we go.

That said, certainly caution should be taken on a guy with a history of knee problems and foot problems, as those tend to be chronic, an example of feedback loops.

But a sprained wrist? That's like, just something that happens right? How spraining a wrist would indicate in any sort of way that he would have career ending knee problems is beyond me.

I'm with everyone on Brandon Roy. He had knee problems, and I believe the doctors saw a distinct lack of cartiledge pre-draft. That's a big red flag for a guy that is going to be jumping up and down and running on a hardwood floor.
   650. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 14, 2012 at 08:19 PM (#4061173)
miami-indiana just tipped off on NBATV.
   651. Zipperholes Posted: February 14, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4061183)
The Pacers look horrific.
   652. Quaker Posted: February 14, 2012 at 08:38 PM (#4061184)
I think Portland is going to win the West.
   653. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 14, 2012 at 08:40 PM (#4061186)
The Pacers look horrific.
miami is on the third end of a b2b2b, too.

when the heat are at their best, they're almost completely unstoppable. it's really something to behold.
   654. Zipperholes Posted: February 14, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4061188)
when the heat are at their best, they're almost completely unstoppable. it's really something to behold.
I appreciate Miami's defense, but the Pacers are committing completely unforced TOs. And jacking up awful shots like they're afraid of the ball getting immediately stolen. And leaving Mike Miller wide open.
   655. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 14, 2012 at 09:13 PM (#4061198)
Well, I think that half of basketball settles it: the Raptors must have the best defense in the league.
   656. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 14, 2012 at 09:48 PM (#4061208)
Lin's playing okay, but the Knicks aren't guarding anyone and Calderon's still on fire from Sunday.
   657. kpelton Posted: February 14, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4061209)
This is now badly out of date, but by my numbers Rudy Gay has a long ways to go to match the value Roy provided the Blazers pre-retirement:
http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=606
   658. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 14, 2012 at 10:00 PM (#4061211)
[657] This also brings up another one of my pet peeves, the "what if Team X had drafted Y instead of Z"? Sure, maybe the Blazers could have drafted Gay instead of Roy, maybe a slight plus. Maybe they would have drafted Foye or Patrick O'Bryant or any of those other guys. I see this argument used all the time and it drives me nuts, especially when the player involved was drafted pretty low -- what if the Knicks had drafted Rondo instead of Balkman? Sure, that would have been great, by all means, but if they hadn't drafted Balkman they could have just as easily drafted Marcus Williams or Josh Boone (the 2 guys picked after Rondo). You can't just play the what-if game and assume that a team would have improbably nailed every substitute pick in your alternate universe -- a pick isn't bad even in results just because a better player was drafted later. Simmons in particular does this all the time and it's really annoying.
   659. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 14, 2012 at 10:34 PM (#4061221)
You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding. Me.
   660. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 14, 2012 at 10:36 PM (#4061224)
LIN-POSSIBLE!
   661. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 14, 2012 at 10:42 PM (#4061226)
Wow.
   662. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 14, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4061227)
Kevin - totally agreed w/ you on your Eric Gordon prognostication tweet.

That's a pet peeve of mine too, AS - I'm glad it doesn't come up too much w/ baseball.

Lin: 27 pts, 11 ast (uh, 8 turns), and another win. Most points thru first 5 career starts.
   663. madvillain Posted: February 14, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4061228)
Unreal. If this keeps up, God will forsake Tebow and jump on the Lin bandwagon. Eff that, it's clear God is driving the Lin bandwagon. It's the only thing that makes sense.
   664. Zipperholes Posted: February 14, 2012 at 10:45 PM (#4061229)
What happened? Knicks games aren’t televised here.
   665. JC in DC Posted: February 14, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4061230)
Lin is for real. I don't mean the hypey, crazy, hit the last second shot thing, but the Knicks have a real PG now. That's quite a good turn of events.
   666. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 14, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4061231)
I didn't watch but...
Knicks, once down 17, came back to win by three. Lin scored the last 6 points of the game, including the game winning three (dribbled out the clock, then hit a 25 footer just before the buzzer).
   667. JC in DC Posted: February 14, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4061235)
One of the great things that Lin has done is elevate Shumpert's play. Shump is playing huge lately. His defense and energy are excellent.
   668. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 14, 2012 at 10:54 PM (#4061236)
Unreal. If this keeps up, God will forsake Tebow and jump on the Lin bandwagon. Eff that, it's clear GodTebow is driving the Lin bandwagon. It's the only thing that makes sense.


fixed
   669. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 14, 2012 at 11:11 PM (#4061238)
One other negative note on Lin: Calderon lit the Knicks up tonight (25-7-9).
   670. madvillain Posted: February 14, 2012 at 11:20 PM (#4061242)
One other negative note on Lin: Calderon lit the Knicks up tonight (25-7-9).


He didn't get much help from Amare or Chandler. That said, the turning point in the game wasn't so much Lin's doing as when Pringles put Shumpert on Calderon. He locked him down and had a huge steal late in the game to help the Knicks get within striking distance. Lin, obviously, did the rest.
   671. Howie Menckel Posted: February 14, 2012 at 11:26 PM (#4061244)
Modell's Sporting Goods has 60,000 pieces of Lin merchandise arriving in NY/NJ in next 48 hours.

resistance is futile.

   672. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 14, 2012 at 11:34 PM (#4061253)
Thibs just locked up the A-S coaching spot for the East, right?
   673. puck Posted: February 15, 2012 at 12:11 AM (#4061260)
As I mentioned the other day though, the types of injuries he's dealing with - back spasms, tendinitis, whatever the #### is wrong with his toe - are things that could linger and stick with you for a long time. He may very well be dealing with these things his whole career, which would be a shame.


Yes, it would be. I'm amazed though, how durable NBA players are. 82 games, all the running, jumping and occasional falls. Seems like the body would take a beating and more players would lose their explosiveness quickly.
   674. madvillain Posted: February 15, 2012 at 12:41 AM (#4061275)
   675. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 15, 2012 at 12:57 AM (#4061283)
I'd like to alter my rest-of-season projection for Jeremy Lin to 20, 10, and 5. He's the new Chauncey Billups.
   676. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 15, 2012 at 08:34 AM (#4061342)
I missed the game because of an awful Valentine's dinner, but before heading to dinner I checked and saw the Knicks were down 15. About halfway through dinner the entire restaurant explodes. I look around and see the waitstaff high fiving and I check my phone...wow. This really is crazy.

Sidenote, overheard the conversation at the table next to me where the woman was apparently an NBA employee. According to her, the league offices were/are scrambling to figure out a way to get Lin into the Rookie-Soph game without it looking too bad. Supposedly, their current plan involves allowing Shaq and Barkley to have a "wild card" pick, so the rosters will be 10 each instead of 9 with Lin being picked by one of them.
   677. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 15, 2012 at 08:39 AM (#4061343)
I love Lin's post-game interviews. So refreshing to hear a guy who had a good game (turnovers acknowledged) and hit the game-winning shot talk about how his teammate bailed him out by shutting down a guy he had let burn the team early. Reminds me of Rose (the interviewing, not the ability).

EDIT: LeBron has a 32.54 PER. Nothing to do with Lin, but that's just crazy.
   678. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 15, 2012 at 08:47 AM (#4061345)
From ESPN:
It’s Lin’s sixth straight 20-point, 7-assist game, tying Walt Frazier and Micheal Ray Richardson for the longest such streaks in franchise history (according to Elias).

It’s also the longest such streak in the NBA this season -- LeBron James is the only other player with a streak longer than three games.
   679. Jimmy P Posted: February 15, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4061436)
So Lin is going to take Rose's spot in the All-Star game when Rose has to skip, right?

   680. Kurt Posted: February 15, 2012 at 11:47 AM (#4061438)
Modell's Sporting Goods has 60,000 pieces of Lin merchandise arriving in NY/NJ in next 48 hours.

I went to the Knick page last night to look for a Lin jersey for my brother's birthday; apparently they're not shipping until mid-April.

NJ, hopefully it was just the dinner that was awful, and not the valentine.
   681. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 15, 2012 at 11:52 AM (#4061444)
Big, big addition to basketball reference - Play Index. (h/t Haberstroh.)
   682. tshipman Posted: February 15, 2012 at 11:56 AM (#4061448)
It’s Lin’s sixth straight 20-point, 7-assist game, tying Walt Frazier and Micheal Ray Richardson for the longest such streaks in franchise history (according to Elias).

It’s also the longest such streak in the NBA this season -- LeBron James is the only other player with a streak longer than three games.


Holy cherry picked statistics, Batman!
   683. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 15, 2012 at 11:56 AM (#4061450)
miami is on the third end of a b2b2b, too.

when the heat are at their best, they're almost completely unstoppable. it's really something to behold.


Not just any b2b2b. @ATL, @MIL, @IND. They won by 20, 18, and 15; all those margins could have easily been bigger. Milwaukee isn't in the playoffs at the moment, but they had already beated Miami twice this year. That's got to be the most impressive 3 game stretch any team has had this season.

Thibs just locked up the A-S coaching spot for the East, right?

Yes. I cannot imagine how little fun he's going to have coaching that game. The Bulls players all had a good time imagining it after the game.

Bulls defense was god-awful last night though. Allowing 115 to Sacramento is just unacceptable. Cousins was damn impressive though, although Noah almost matched him (28/17 - 7ORB/2 and 6 TOs vs 22/11/3); neither guy really slowed the other one down. The Kings are a different team, at least effort-wise, after the coaching change.
   684. andrewberg Posted: February 15, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4061465)
Would anyone in the world have a problem with the NBA just adding Lin to the R-S roster? Anyone who complained would have to have a serious stick up their ass.
   685. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 15, 2012 at 12:35 PM (#4061478)
Oh, and Shump missed another dunk last night. I believe he has a missed dunk streak of at least 3 games at this point. I'm still waiting on someone to investigate what the cause of this is and I'm being entirely serious. I believe the tally for the year is over 15 at this point, which of course includes his career high 3 against CHA a few weeks back.
   686. Jimmy P Posted: February 15, 2012 at 12:39 PM (#4061486)
The Blazers really went out and worked for McMillan last night. Batum started in place of Matthews, but they still gave up 124 points to the Wiz. Ouch.
   687. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 15, 2012 at 12:45 PM (#4061497)
mySynergySports: Pre-Lin Knicks Offense: 88.4 Points/100 Possessions (would rank 23rd). With Lin Knicks: 91.9 Points/100 Pos (T-9th)

mySynergySports: As @douggottlieb said on First Take, Lin drives right 70% of the time on Isos, gets to the rim 62% of the time, finishes 67% FG.


Will the scouting catch up to him at some point? The TOs might be a little worrisome, but I don't think that's something he can't improve.

SteveNash: Its crazy! I'm watching Linsanity hoping every shot goes in. Hope I never grow up.
   688. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 15, 2012 at 12:45 PM (#4061499)
Would anyone in the world have a problem with the NBA just adding Lin to the R-S roster? Anyone who complained would have to have a serious stick up their ass.
it would piss me off just a little bit if they took evan turner out of the game to do it.

but if they're just adding a 10th player to each side, i'd be okay with that.
   689. Jimmy P Posted: February 15, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4061503)
it would piss me off just a little bit if they took evan turner out of the game to do it.


You'd be the only one.

The NBA wants people to watch that game. And no one has for years. They're going to add Lin, it's just going to come down to how. I'd also find it really amusing if Shaq or Barkley picked him first, then.
   690. Fanshawe Posted: February 15, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4061515)
Would anyone in the world have a problem with the NBA just adding Lin to the R-S roster? Anyone who complained would have to have a serious stick up their ass.


Sounds like someone is forgetting about East Coast Bias, a totally legitimate and well-defined thing, and the most important problem in the world today.
   691. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 15, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4061530)
Will the scouting catch up to him at some point? The TOs might be a little worrisome, but I don't think that's something he can't improve.

Possibly dumb question/musing: Lin's TOs are really high but his TOV% is lower than guys like Rondo and Nash. I'm not sure how/why these numbers are supposed to align but can someone explain? I assume that it's because he takes so many more shots than those guys. That being said, is it better to look at TOV% instead of pure TOs when assessing his ability to take care of the ball? Which is more relevant for projecting his performance?
   692. madvillain Posted: February 15, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4061534)
Sounds like someone is forgetting about East Coast Bias, a totally legitimate and well-defined thing, and the most important problem in the world today.


It's early in the morning here, so I might be off, but this is sarcasm, right?

Anyways, we try and keep this thread to basketball talk. Let the rest of the site talk about things only tangential to sports.

____________________

That being said, is it better to look at TOV% instead of pure TOs when assessing his ability to take care of the ball? Which is more relevant for projecting his performance?


It's just percentage of possessions that end in turnovers. So, yea, it's better than just counting turnovers as it accounts for usage. Yea, he's turning it over too much, but you can't argue with the net gain per 100 possessions the Knicks have had with him running the show.

____________________

Shumpert's missed dunks really are a thing of wonder. How does such a great athlete miss so many damn dunks? Does he have small hands?


____________________

Rose, on Lin:

“Jeremy, he’s playing, man,” Rose said. “He’s playing well and with a lot of confidence. Like I always say, that’s all you need in this league is confidence. He definitely has that. His teammates believe in him and I like him as a player.”

   693. robinred Posted: February 15, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4061537)
Wanted to note that Ginobili is back and SA has won eight in a row. Never count out the Spurs.
   694. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 15, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4061545)
I don't remember Shumpert having that problem at GT, fwiw.
   695. madvillain Posted: February 15, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4061551)
Rose said he was offered a cortisone shot for the back pain and didn't take it. That's interesting, as last year he was rumored to have had a few cortisone shots for bumps and bruises. Coupled with the ulcer problem (90% likely caused by heavy anti-inflammatory consumption) and maybe we are seeing the evolution of a guy starting to look out for more than just the next day in his career.

Popping anti-inflammatories and cortisone shots are par for the course for pro athletes looking to stay in the game, but neither one, and especially the shots, are that great an idea long term.
   696. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 15, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4061555)
More Lin: My brother and his basketball-obsessed 6-year-old watched the game last night, and the little dude freaked out with joy, and spent the rest of the night replaying it on his min-basket pretending he was Jeremy.

I can't express how awesome this is. When I was growing up, all I had was Michael Chang. Not coincidentally, the only sport my parents allowed us to play in HS was tennis. Booooooo.
   697. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 15, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4061563)
Rose said he was offered a cortisone shot for the back pain and didn't take it. That's interesting, as last year he was rumored to have had a few cortisone shots for bumps and bruises. Coupled with the ulcer problem (90% likely caused by heavy anti-inflammatory consumption) and maybe we are seeing the evolution of a guy starting to look out for more than just the next day in his career.

I don't remember the final tally, but he did claim he was scared of needles. Which you wouldn't know by how many tattoos he has. His quotes before/after the game made it sound like he wanted to play last night but they either didn't let him or talked him out of it. I think it's more likely someone in the org finally is getting through to Thibs (and maybe Rose).
   698. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 15, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4061571)
When I was growing up, all I had was Michael Chang.

Michael Chang would be my wife's 2nd most favorite tennis player. The only one she thought was cuter was Agassi. She could care less how well they play. :) (Not to imply that Chang was chopped liver or anything)

Cool story about your nephew.
   699. Jimmy P Posted: February 15, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4061576)
You know what I found kind of crazy about last night's Linsanity? When did Toronto become a home game for the Knicks?
   700. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 15, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4061583)
You know what I found kind of crazy about last night's Linsanity? When did Toronto become a home game for the Knicks?

Apparently, the Raptors had scheduled last night as Asian Heritage Night months in advance. Crazy. On the replay of Lin hitting the GW you can see people jumping for joy/into each other's arms.
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