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They've got Thabo. He'll probably cause a lot of trouble for Wade. But he's just not big enough to play Lebron.
Altitude sickness is the most common explanation that I've heard. There's a pretty big jump in elevation between Chicago and Park City, where the Bulls stayed the night before the game.
Because the guys on the bench generally suck and their minutes are going to LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Durant, Westbrook, Harden.
Teams use their bench because (in the regular season) they have to. A tired LeBron is better than a fresh James Jones.
I do think that my one caveat for the bench minutes argument is that MIA's weak bench means that Lebron's minutes not just for the Thunder series, but for the last 2 as well have been insane. He average 45+ mpg in the BOS series because the Heat couldn't afford him to come out of the game. I think that if this series goes past 5, that you are likely to see a less effective Lebron towards the end of the series similar to last year.
The important part in this series is that the deep bench for Miami is worse than the deep bench for OKC. If both teams stick to 7-8 man rotations with minutes heavily going to their top 5 guys, the ones who are cut out for OKC are likely Nazr Mohammed, Daequan Cook, Royal Ivey. They aren't great, but they all do certain things well. You also probably see slightly fewer minutes for Sefolosha, Collison, and Fischer. The guys cut out of Miami's rotation entirely are guys like Pittman and Turiaf, who are worth nothing. Maybe Mike Miller, too, who is playing like total crap. Again, it's not a huge difference, but it definitely works in Miami's favor.
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Definitely possible, though I think part of what wore him down last year was Marion's excellent defense and having to contend with Chandler in the middle. No combo of guys from OKC are nearly as physical.
My memory is notoriously faulty, but this is not my memory at all. I don't recall him being a faker, or being constantly ill, or that day seeming like a typical sniffle. I thought he was legit sick.
Semi-related...is there a historical comp for LeBron in terms of anchoring the defense as well as carrying a huge offensive load? What I’m looking for/thinking about is the highest usage rate maintained by guys who were also acknowledged as THE guy for their team defensively. I’ve often thought of the LeBron wore down excuse as a silly one because I was focused on the minutes he played and didn’t think they were that far off the charts. However, today it occurred to me that perhaps I should focus more on his role while playing however minutes he plays.
I don't think he was a faker, and I am sure that there were times he was legitimately sick. But if he any signs of the flu, it always seemed to get mentioned. Part of this, I am sure, was the celebrity of Jordan and the media following his every move. But after awhile, it seems like part of his persona - the driven winner who could overcome everything. My perception was that this really took off after the Pippen migraine game, but admit that is very likely my bias altering my memory.
Jordan, Duncan, and a lot of centers, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Kareem, Wilt. Among other wings, not so much. Kobe at times. Walt Frazier.
Jordan usually got the #2 defensive assignment, didn't he? I thought Pippen usually took the #1 assignment.
You're not the only one.
Jordan usually got the #2 defensive assignment, didn't he? I thought Pippen usually took the #1 assignment.
This is my recollection as well.
Miami will be able to juggle defenders a bit, but yeah, their stars are going to have a big defensive load to carry. Miami ought to be able to use LeBron, Bosh and Battier on Durant, and LeBron, Battier and Wade on Harden and Westbrook.
I think that's true. I think the reason it is not mentioned more is that it is essentially what makes OKC good. Having three distinct creators is extremely unique and no team is going to be able to totally shut down their combination of shooting and penetration. On the other hand, we kind of take it as a given. It is kind of like saying, "I don't see how OKC is going to keep Lebron and Wade off the line." Well, they're not. Both teams have the ability to put points on the board.
With that said, I think Miami will do as well as anyone at defending those three guys. I think the plan is to start with Wade on Westbrook, Battier on Harden, and Lebron on Durant. Battier will probably have the most trouble of the group, but Harden is also the least explosive of those three. Plus, even if Miami does not have an elite help defender, they have the advantage of being able to play lineups where they can switch every PNR- that's a unique and distinct advantage and I think it is a big part of their defensive team success. Both Durant and Harden like to shoot right off of screens, and a lot of their complementary players get their points on rolls/pops (esp Ibaka), which are going to be much more contested than they were when Duncan had to hedge on the ballhandler to let Manu/Parker recover.
I seem to recall Jordan always taking the opposing SG, whereas Pippen would typically be assigned to the SF, but if the SF wasn't particularly dangerous, Pippen might take the PG, PF, or just chase the ball.
Excellent response, thanks. I was probably misunderstanding the argument, reading it as Miami can handle the big 3 rather than Miami can do a better job defending them than other teams. I do think either Harden or Westbrook will do better than even most in this thread expect, at least if Chalmers continues to get 35 MPG.
That largely depends on whether OKC goes big (Perkins/Collison) or small (Fisher) with the 5th guy next to Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka.
What I was getting at is that OKC's advantage is built in, and nobody will truly be able to "stop" their perimeter scoring, but Miami can probably handle better than most, and they have their own advantages at the other end.
I don't think it matters. I'm not sure people have noticed, but Battier's defense has slipped dramatically this year and even more so in the playoffs. I'm not sure that he's even a league average defender at this moment, and I think that he or Chalmers is going to get absolutely torched by the Harden minutes.
If that's the case (which it very well may be), then Miami has done about as good a job of roster construction around James as Cleveland did.
Edit: Ok, hyperbole, but there are issues to be taken with that roster, as has been pointed out here.
Series: OKC -165, MIA +145
Game 1: OKC -5.5, O/U 195.5, ML: OKC -240, MIA +200
(They are also playing a team that doesn't struggle to score 90, however.)
I thought Fisher made a nice hesitation move there to throw off his timing on the block.
On a second look, I think you're right, but I hate Fisher and refuse to credit him for anything.
I feel the same way. Van Gundy seemed to think it was the right call - but if it is, that's a stupid rule.
His last really good game was in the Pacers series. This is the third or fourth best player in the NBA!
Are we sure about this?
(I agree, though, with your point. Wade has stunk.)
Eddy Curry can probably stay in front of someone for a few minutes because it takes that long to get around him.
Not anymore I'm not! Christ has he disintegrated in the playoffs.
James Jones is o-kaaaaaaay. If you're really sick of Battier. He's pretty much the same guy as Battier, just slightly shittier. Edit: side note: Battier is actually having a pretty good game.
Great point.
Was just imagining Paul Pierce and Brandon Bass trying to check Durant. He'd probably have 38 right now, but only because he'd sat much of the 4th quarter with the Thunder up 25.
1. Foul calls and non-calls have a large element of randomness to them.
2. When a player drives to the net the refs get too whistle-happy. Is it not possible to defend someone without fouling them?
3. The flops are just incredibly ridiculous.
4. As are the proliferation of technical fouls.
Definitely been around longer than that.
This article indicates the block/charge call coming into vogue around the year 2000, which very roughly jives with my memory. You'd see it before then, but more rarely.
And that Durant guy is pretty good.
It's been around for at least a decade, but I agree, I hate it too. Jumping in front of someone and falling down should never be an acceptable defensive play. It's cop-out D. Man up and make a play on the ball (and in return, the officials shouldn't make so many ticky tac calls on drives when defenders actually do try).
Edit: coke to tshipman
Agreed on all points.
I should mention that it's a really fuzzy line. There definitely weren't guys who act like Harden/Battier until something like ... 2002? I remember Christie as a flopper. Fisher was definitely flopping to get charges around then. Manu's flopped like crazy since he's been in the league, but that's mostly on offense.
I should mention that now-a-days we think of it as a guard-centric strategy. Back in the day, however, it was a post defense tool. That was one of the ways you would defend against Shaq. I think the charge/block call came about in large part because of Shaq, tbh. Edit: it used to be a no-call.
I hate the call because it's one of those things you can call both ways. I think going to the international goaltend rules will help with it.
I get the same feeling as when MLB mics the pitching coaches.
Broadcast is not allowed to air anything remotely relating to tactics, so all we get is what you described.
I think the networks skip the strategy parts on purpose. They focus on platitudes so nothing's given away.
They are careful not to show any actual strategy. There's an article in the SI Vault that mentions them showing Xs and Os in a Celtics/Sixers playoff game which Bill Fitch was thrown out of - watching on TV, he was able to relay defensive strategies out to the bench from the locker room via messenger. It's almost certainly not that simple.
I would have to imagine that some of the coaches ham it up/exaggerate the platitudes during the taped segments. From various interviews I can't recall right now, a lot of plays out of timeouts are drawn up by assistant coaches. And no one cares about assistant coaches.
My favorite art pieces are the Popovich and Phil Jackson mini-interviews. Here's Pop from this year's playoffs. Here's Phil's greatest hits.
I think the networks skip the strategy parts on purpose. They focus on platitudes so nothing's given away.
Oh, you're just speculating. Occam's razor tells us that in fact all NBA coaches are vacuous nitwits, unless scientific studies are done to convince me otherwise.
Pretty sure the coaches would be ballistic if they showed more than some vague motivational talk.
Vlade Divac was the King of the Floppers.
I didn't get to watch closely. Was it me or did the Heat try to go hard after Westbrook and decide to just leave Durant completely wide open all day? I saw Durant hitting some shots in the halfcourt offense where no one was within 10 feet of him.
Really bad sign for the Heat that they lose a game where A. they had a decent lead in the first half B. outshot the Thunder on 3s C. Battier had a big offensive night and D. Harden did very little.
Are the Thunder really going to play Fisher more than Ibaka and not get exploited by it? Color me stunned.
Note: LeBron has been making a number of careless passes the past few games. Pelton notes that the Thunder's length was giving him problems.
I don't know if it was BECAUSE of Westbrook, but yeah...at least 4 or so of Durant's 3PAs were of the wide open variety. I think he might be able to make those so MIA should look into that.
1. If Durant is going to continue to guard Lebron for most of the game, I think it's safe to say Lebron will figure out how to exploit that a little better. He had a strong game, but (in my opinion) should have gone after Durant a lot more in the first half, rather than settling for jumpers.
2. As others have pointed out, Wade is just not getting it done. But I was disappointed in Bosh last night, too. He needs to do more on both ends of the court.
3. Durant makes scoring look very, very easy.
4. How much of the difference in the two halves in the Heat's offensive effectiveness do you credit OKC with? To me they clearly turned up the pressure on the ball, but I still think the Heat were too eager to bail them out with long jumpers. Their continued inability to put together 4 quarters of good offense in the playoffs is kind of baffling.
I thought there were some times he seemed way too eager to just launch jumpers over the top of Durant. Does anyone remember the play in the first quarter where Lebron drove and seemed to clearly be hit on the wrist/arm by Durant? I didn't see a replay, but that would've been Durant's second foul, and may have totally changed the game.
it was divac's only way to defend shaq.
dennis rodman flopped in the late 80's/early 90's
he would get a call and then vigorously clap his hands when the ref would be suckered into calling a charge
it was pathetic
then you had laimbeer who brought the twist of big men flopping. previously it seemed to be a guards only thing where they would feign getting run down by the bigger man
the evolution of the flop would be a fun article
Lebron didn't have any kind of shot working last night and still puts up a good stat line. Wade certainly needs to play better. One thing I didn't see last night was any Lebron-Wade transition game. I don't think that will last - OKC's sudden lack of turnovers can't last, Miami is too good at forcing them. That should make up for games where
Mike Miller really needs a DNP-CD next to his name. He's so totally useless at anything that doesn't involve jacking up a 3, and he's only hit 1 3 pointer in the last 5 games. Enough already. Give Jones those minutes. He's not good, but isn't a black hole of suckitude.
Ray said the defenders aren't trying to defend the shot at all. And I don't think that's true at all. Getting into the lane in is in itself a defense of the shot. If the defender has the ground, it's on the attacker not to initiate contact. If you let guys bowl into stationary defenders, there are about 24 players who instantly become unguardable. You have to leave defenders something.
Now I hate the flopping that goes along with it. But to me, that's on the refs. If the only way defenders get that call is when they flop, I can't blame them for it. If refs were calling the charge if the guy goes down or not, players wouldn't need to flop around.
that and i think there is a safety element. i only watch basketball every so often and i see guys getting undercut and the defender getting the call. that's awful
I side more with Ray here. If you take away the step in the lane offensive charge, which rewards basically a guy hanging around the low post and taking one step and standing still, you get the kind of basketball most people want. A player who beats his defender off the dribble should be rewarded for his skill.
the flopping
the cheap shot elbow to the head to instigate retaliation
the hysterical response to foul calls
laimbeer permanently stained the nba game in multiple ways
awful
laimbeer was a creep. he was a creep in college and he got meaner and uglier as a pro
cartwright threw elbows because cartwright was clumsy. laimbeer did it because he was mean
FPH is exactly right that a wholesale deletion of the charge rule from the books would be terrible for basketball. It would make the game too hard for guys who aren't built like tanks, and it would allow guys with a bit of a handle and tank build to dominate. It would make the game actually less dynamic and athletic in the long run.
The problem that can be fixed, I think, is a much more marginal one. We see the annoying charge happen when a player just barely slips into position before contact is initiated, then windmills his arms, falls on his bum, and draw the call. Just send out a directive that defensive position needs to be established a step or two before contact, and you've got the rule fixed.
Speaking of which, I read an interesting (though short) history of it once - can't find it after a quick search, though. Divac certainly is identified with the escalation of flopping in the league (the idea being that it was imported from Europe / soccer culture), though I'm not sure that he deserves as much credit as he gets here. Not that he didn't do it often / successfully.
All of this is fair - to the extent we can successfully legislate against the practice, I think that's great. But, if you can get away with it / are good at it - do it.
* I think 1391/tripon is probably right about why Laimbeer can't get a coaching gig, though there's few enough of those jobs that it's hard to say.
I disagree. I think you're collapsing two distinct plays into one. One is the legit charge, where an offensive player (a tank) lowers his shoulder or otherwise takes away a legitimate defensive position by brute force. That should be prohibited. There's nothing athletic about that, and established defensive ground should be defended by officiating. The other is the driving charge, where one player attacks the basket and the other tries to defend by getting in his way. I can see keeping that in some minor way, but I think the vast majority of these should be eliminated. Players should be encouraged to stop that play by attacking the ball. This would increase athleticism b/c it would value Ibaka types over Battier types. Make both players meet around the rim. If you're too short or too unathletic, get out of the way, then, or strip the ball early.
My issue with the charge call is that the current method of determining the foul is exactly backwards. It's an offensive foul for a lack of player control, yet officials focus almost entirely on the conduct of the defender -- i.e. whether the defender is set and outside the charge line. The focus needs to be the conduct of the offensive player and whether that player is out of control or contacting the defender to gain an advantage. It's ridiculous that a controlled ballhandler tends to get an offensive foul for incidental contact with a stationary defender, while one who barrels into the lane with his head down and using his off arm to create space tends to get the benefit of the call as long as the defender is moving or inside the line.
All you really have to do is just go back to the no-call on that play. The current situation is problematic because the NBA has decided that there must be a call when a body hits the floor (90% of the time at least).
If you got rid of the charge completely, with the hand-checking rules gone, the whole damn game would be watching guys take turns executing dribble drives. There has to be some give to incentivize jump-shooting. Currently, I think the model where the best players are the best because they're really good at getting to the FT line is flawed. It stagnates the game.
You can't just get rid of the charge call and call it a day, in my opinion. (not saying that you are saying that JC in DC).
I disagree. This is not a defense of the player with the ball at all. It's merely a cheap exploitation of the rules.
A legitimate charge is when the guy is already established there for a second or two and then the offensive player bowls into him. That is not what's happening with a lot of these calls, where the offensive player is driving in an open lane and then suddenly a defender swoops in -- not to try to defend the play, but to establish position with his arms LITERALLY FOLDED so that he gets a cheap call.
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As to Miller, he's not hitting his three's, but what makes it worse is that he hangs around frozen in position with his arm held high above his head while waiting to see if the ball goes down.
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