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Friday, June 01, 2012

OT: NBA Monthly Thread, June 2012

I estimate that only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what the site is really about: overwrought, acrimonious discussions about having where to put the site’s overwrought, acrimonious discussions.

Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 01, 2012 at 09:58 AM | 2704 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   2501. Booey Posted: June 28, 2012 at 06:21 PM (#4169026)
As far as Houston, I don't think it is more or less "desirable" than a lot of other places, and while I could be wrong, I don't see it as having any notable advantages over many other markets. I think that most of these guys make the FA destination decisions based on "basketball reasons" as much as anything else.


Right, but the whole Houston discussion started from a poster (I'm too lazy to look back at who it was) that said he didn't think Houston would be a very attractive location for free agents. My disagreement was basically just saying what you said in your paragraph above. Once you remove the few teams that do have notable market advantages since most of them are about capped out anyway, and once you remove the "C'mon, who wants to live in Milwaukee?" type of cities that really do have a notable market DISadvantage, then Houston is as good a place as any of the ones left to pick up FA's.

But then again, I've never been there other than a couple of airport layovers, so maybe it really is as vile a place as 2476 and 2480 say it is. I'll concede the rankings of the city itself to those who've had the misfortune of experiencing it. :)

   2502. Booey Posted: June 28, 2012 at 06:40 PM (#4169030)
I am surprised that Utah wants to jump at Mo Williams.


Our backup point guards were Earl Watson and Jamaal Tinsley last season. This doesn't surprise me at all.
   2503. rr Posted: June 28, 2012 at 06:42 PM (#4169032)
What would have happened then?


No one knows.

You made a big point earlier in this discussion, when we were talking about Durant, Jordan and Portland's draft history, of saying you don't like dealing in what-ifs.

I suppose your point (again) is that your team (and the Raptors and a few others) are at a huge, unfair,(you have used that word) structural disadvantage due to location. Obviously, LA, New York, and Miami have some advantages over Salt Lake City in the context of NBA free agency. But I think it has been well-demonstrated by a variety of posters with a variety of facts that you are probably overstating the effects of this advantage to a pretty significant degree. If you don't believe me since I am a Lakers fan, I would guess that Clippers and Knicks fans might have some opinions on the matter.

I think you are looking too much at location and the victimization narrative and not enough at the individual guys. Kareem was born in New York and went to college in LA and played/came of age in a time when race issues were very different than they are now. It is therefore unsurprising that he wanted to play in New York or LA. Shaq is something of an entertainer and wanted to be in LA, and the Lakers had a decent core of talent waiting for him, so he wanted to be there. James wanted to play with his friends and play for a huge figure in NBA history, Riley.

But OTOH Duncan, a quiet sort in a great organization with a deep respect for his coach, stayed in San Antonio. Durant was born in DC but went to college in Texas, and he has chosen to stay in OKC. Garnett, known as a guy who is intensely loyal, stayed in Minnesota 12 years. Karl Malone, a rancher/farmer/hunter/rural type of guy, stayed in Utah 20 years and I think still lives there. Stockton stayed there as well. Anthony chose NY--but he was born in Brooklyn. Olajuwon stayed in Houston after attending college there.

The current threesome...well, we still don't know where they will end up. But Williams is thinking of going home to Dallas. Howard has not as of yet forced a deal either to Brooklyn or to the Lakers/Clippers. Paul may stay in LA, but given the organizational history of the Clippers, he may not.

Basically, if the org is good and the money is there, guys will usually stay, I think. But it really depends on who the guy is and what he wants.



   2504. Jimmy P Posted: June 28, 2012 at 06:52 PM (#4169034)
For the average NBA player... we're all just guessing, but I would expect Toronto, NOLA, Atlanta, and Memphis to all be above Houston in the "pecking order" and probably Portland and Charlotte too.

Um, NBA players probably don't have the same tastes as us. So, I'd think that Toronto, Memphis, Utah, and Portland are all way way below Houston. And, Toronto's going to be way down because I'm sure players don't want to live in the cold AND pay Canadian taxes.
   2505. andrewberg Posted: June 28, 2012 at 07:02 PM (#4169038)
Our backup point guards were Earl Watson and Jamaal Tinsley last season. This doesn't surprise me at all.


Yeah, but there is plenty of time to shop around for other options that aren't as overpriced.
   2506. Booey Posted: June 28, 2012 at 07:10 PM (#4169041)
#2530 - Ah, Robin. You know I love ya. Lol. You seem to enjoy repeat conversations much more than I do. :)

I never intended to get back into the big market/small market discussion. We've all already been there, and I think everyone spoke their piece sufficiently. All I was saying with the whole Houston thing was in reponse to a poster that said he didn't think the city would be a very attractive option to free agents. I just basically said that I didn't think it had any specific DISADVANTAGES either when it comes to signing FA's, which you've agreed with. Therefore, if they make the right moves regarding payroll, roster construction, etc, I don't see any reason why the Rockets can't be a contender for the likes of Howard, Paul, or Williams. You would agree with this, yes?

As for the Raptors/superfriends thing, no, I don't think that would have ever happened in Toronto, just like I don't think the Raps have any shot at Howard/Paul/Williams no matter what they do. But you're right that I don't like to get into hypotheticals too much. The Raptors comment was just a sidenote in parenthesis of one of my Houston posts anyway, not a major point that I expected to start another debate about market size.

My honest point in this whole part of the discussion was literally just to wonder whether the city of Houston sucked badly enough that players wouldn't want to play there. A few people said yes. Others said no. That's good enough for me. :)



   2507. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: June 28, 2012 at 07:35 PM (#4169048)
Stern really seems to enjoy the booing, doesn't he?
   2508. JJ1986 Posted: June 28, 2012 at 07:44 PM (#4169052)
Bobcats take MKG. Seems like they could have traded to 4 and still gotten their man.
   2509. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 28, 2012 at 07:45 PM (#4169053)
Maybe they did
   2510. JC in DC Posted: June 28, 2012 at 07:49 PM (#4169057)
When did Bilas become an idiot? "He compares FAVORABLY to Ray Allen?"
   2511. JC in DC Posted: June 28, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4169059)
Are you kidding me?
   2512. JJ1986 Posted: June 28, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4169060)
Rumor was Kings would trade the 5 to Houston unless Robinson was on the board.
   2513. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 28, 2012 at 07:56 PM (#4169061)
I read that too. Daryl Morey: always the bridesmaid.
   2514. JC in DC Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:01 PM (#4169062)
Word of the day on Jay Bilas' calendar today? "Relentless."
   2515. JC in DC Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:03 PM (#4169063)
Oh, my god. It's white people embarrassing themselves night at ESPN! Jayla: Your mom and grandparents are dead, but you're going to Disney!!!
   2516. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:04 PM (#4169064)
1. Thomas Robinson might be my new favorite player.

2. Am I the only one that thinks ESPN's questioning of him and his sister was really ####### insensitive?

EDIT: Guess not
   2517. JJ1986 Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:06 PM (#4169065)
I don't like Barnes, but I think he'd be a good fit in GS. They'll probably take Drummond.
   2518. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:06 PM (#4169066)
I don't know jack about Bradley Beal. Is he really worth #3?
   2519. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:26 PM (#4169071)
Really like the DET and SAC young front court pairs.
   2520. JJ1986 Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:31 PM (#4169072)
Lose the 'stache, Austin.
   2521. JJ1986 Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:35 PM (#4169073)
At the minute of his biggest achievement, it is time to talk about the death of Leonard's father.
   2522. Tripon Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4169077)
I'm disappointed on how non-flashy the suits are this year.
   2523. baudib Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4169078)
Really looking like a Perry Jones to Sixers moment coming up...
   2524. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:48 PM (#4169080)
2518 - yes
   2525. nick swisher hygiene Posted: June 28, 2012 at 08:53 PM (#4169085)
Nice situation for Marshall, mentor-wise...
   2526. JJ1986 Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:13 PM (#4169091)
The reporter asks Z about playing next to Dirk Nowitzki despite the fact that he's been traded.
   2527. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:14 PM (#4169092)
Getting 33 and 34 this year - not shabby.

(for all my kvetching about the top of the draft this year, it does have quality depth)
   2528. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4169095)
HOU got all the guys I liked.
   2529. JC in DC Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:20 PM (#4169097)
I don't like Cleveland's moves. Don't they need depth? Zeller, really?
   2530. The District Attorney Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:24 PM (#4169098)
Bethlehem Shoals @freedarko

REPORT: It turns out Perry Jones III was never, ever real. He was made up.
   2531. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4169102)
Zeller is a guy where I like him more than a lot of the other stat-y types. He's old, but he can shoot a little, score in the post, get to the line, play good position defense (not just code for 'not a shotblocker'), run the floor - think he'll have a long, usable career.
Doesn't mean I do that deal if I'm Cleveland, though.
   2532. PJ Martinez Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4169103)
So it all comes down to the seriousness of Sullinger's back injury, right? A few months ago it would have seemed crazy that the Celtics could get him at #21.
   2533. JJ1986 Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4169104)
Man, Jay Bilas really hates the Sulinger pick but can't quite bring himself to say so.
   2534. baudib Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:41 PM (#4169106)
Sixers pick of Moe Harkless is really good if you consider that they really needed someone to play like Thaddeus Young. wait what.
   2535. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4169108)
Thad was a better shooter.

I take Sullinger there 11 times out of 10.

Jenkins? Really? I mean, he can shoot from deep - but that's it.
   2536. JC in DC Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:45 PM (#4169109)
Completely agree with Der K about the Sullinger pick. That's ideal for him and Boston (aside from the money).
   2537. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:50 PM (#4169111)
What do you guys think of Wroten? I see why formulas like him (and why his high ceiling / low floor works at this point in the draft) - but can't shoot + more turns than assists is kind of scary.
   2538. PJ Martinez Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:55 PM (#4169113)
Sounds like the Heat will have the opportunity to take PJ3, with Wroten going to MEM and Plumlee going to IND.
   2539. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4169114)
Either our dear contributor is no longer associated with the Pacers, they aren't using his rankings here, or I'm a lot farther from him on this draft stuff than I would've guessed.
Plumlee?! I mean, big, good athlete, can rebound - but ... eew.
   2540. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: June 28, 2012 at 09:57 PM (#4169115)
Surprised no one has taken a chance on Perry Jones yet -- would have figured some team would have really liked him.

Rockets pulling Terrence Jones at 18 is the steal of a fairly orderly draft so far to me.
   2541. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 28, 2012 at 10:06 PM (#4169118)
The consensus on twitter seems to be that this draft has been bonkers - the mock drafts didn't line up particularly well.

PJ3 should've maaaaybe gone out last year.

Bradford Doolittle: I can see Plumlee as the new Jeff Foster.

Only without that pesky basketball IQ.
   2542. JJ1986 Posted: June 28, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4169121)
Moultrie is going to Philly.
   2543. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 28, 2012 at 10:11 PM (#4169123)
From Miami for a future first + #45.

PJ3 sighting! #28 to OKC.
   2544. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: June 28, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4169130)
Stern's smug smile into the booing crowd never gets old.
   2545. Spivey Posted: June 28, 2012 at 10:31 PM (#4169132)
Just on talent, I really love the Cousins+Robinson front court that the Kings have put together. I haven't given up on Tyreke yet either.
   2546. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: June 28, 2012 at 10:39 PM (#4169136)
Teague to the bulls
   2547. tshipman Posted: June 28, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4169146)
So, I hate, hate hate the Wiaters pick at 4. Why pick two 6-3 guys in back to back drafts?

I like the Warriors getting Barnes at 7.

Obviously I think Drummond at 9 was a steal, but I would be concerned about how you play Monroe and Drummond together. Not sure you can.

LOVE Terrence Jones at 18.

Evan Fournier looks like a girl.

Sullinger at 21 is a great pick--another Leon Powe for Boston.

I forgot the Lakers didn't have a first again this year. How lame is that.
   2548. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: June 28, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4169150)
Is there any chance Royce White can play the 3? HOU seems to have a glut with White, Jones and Morris.
   2549. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: June 28, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4169156)
Was really hoping Doron Lamb would drop to the Knicks. Dammit.
   2550. rr Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:21 AM (#4169187)
I guess a guy named "Darius Earvin Johnson-Odom" was destined to get his shot at making an NBA roster with the Lakers.
   2551. Chicago Joe Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:23 AM (#4169188)
Why did they hold the draft in Newark? Seems like Stern's just asking for it.
   2552. Booey Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:36 AM (#4169193)
Anyone know anything about Kevin Murphy? I've never heard of him.
   2553. steagles Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:41 AM (#4169195)
i'm fairly happy about getting harkless. i was a fan of his coming into the draft process, but i didn't think there was a chance in hell that the sixers would draft him, so i didn't pay much attention to him.

i wasn't a fan of moultrie at 15, and i'm not a fan of the trade to get him at 27. i know the sixers aren't on the hook for anything better than a mid-first round pick, but i still don't think that was good value.

and coming into the draft with 2 second round picks, they leave the draft with exactly 0 second round players on the roster.


there's still a lot of time before the start of the next season, so i could be wrong, but right now, i'd put the over/under for sixers wins at 31. hawesome and lou williams are free agents, and though i wouldn't break the bank to get either of them back, i can't help but think that whoever replaces them in the rotation will be a massive downgrade over their performances this year. vucevic was handled very poorly this past season, and i really have little confidence in his ability to come back next year and immediately be an impact player. they gave him no room to grow last season, and i think it's going to really hurt them this season.

and even if they trade iguodala, i have fairly little confidence in evan turner right now to step up and be an offensive gamebreaker. like with vucevic, the sixers did a very poor job of developing turner last season.


right now, to my eyes, next season looks like a transition year. the keys to the franchise will likely be handed over to jrue, turner, harkless, young, allen, moultrie and vucevic, and i can't help but feel that none of them have actually been developed in a manner that would allow them to thrive with the newfound responsibility.
   2554. The District Attorney Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:42 AM (#4169196)
Anyone know anything about Kevin Murphy? I've never heard of him.
He's like a machine. A gumball machine.
   2555. tshipman Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:51 AM (#4169201)
right now, to my eyes, next season looks like a transition year.


Isn't this around the time when everyone tunes Collins out and a couple guys get injured? They win 30 games and fire Collins. I feel like that's the part of the movie that we're at with the Sixers.
   2556. smileyy Posted: June 29, 2012 at 01:37 AM (#4169218)
If the choice for the Sixers is overpaying guys to keep them, or getting worse...well...may as well get worse.
   2557. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 29, 2012 at 09:25 AM (#4169290)
Some good late round picks last night: I love getting Terrence Jones at #18. I liked his glue-guy style for the 'Cats last year.

Picking up Perry Jones is a good move by OKC. Perry Jones is like a lump of clay, he could potentially be molded to whatever the team needs. On that team, he won't have to worry about carrying any kind of scoring load, that's for sure.

Marquis Teague to the Bulls and Sullinger to the Celtics are better than they types of guys that usually go in the 20s.

   2558. JJ1986 Posted: June 29, 2012 at 09:59 AM (#4169319)
Best undrafted players?

I like Henry Sims.
   2559. jmurph Posted: June 29, 2012 at 10:01 AM (#4169322)
If I'm being rational, I love the Sullinger pick. Assuming health, it's sort of easy to see him as a rotation guy for years to come. That said, Sullinger is a guy I irrationally hate, and after just jettisoning the last Celtics pick I irrationally hated (Big Baby), it's just too soon!
   2560. jmurph Posted: June 29, 2012 at 10:02 AM (#4169325)
How disinterested should I be in Fab Melo? I didn't see enough of him, though what I did see was pretty unimpressive.
   2561. Spivey Posted: June 29, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4169331)
Picking up Perry Jones is a good move by OKC. Perry Jones is like a lump of clay, he could potentially be molded to whatever the team needs. On that team, he won't have to worry about carrying any kind of scoring load, that's for sure.

Isn't that the only thing he's even half decent at though?

I also like the Sullinger pick for Boston. It's a shame that I now have to hate Sullinger, because he's a Celtic.
   2562. Jimmy P Posted: June 29, 2012 at 11:02 AM (#4169373)
I know college costs are soaring, but Perry Jones and Jared Sullinger just both spent ~$5 million for one year of school each. Whew.
   2563. Jimmy P Posted: June 29, 2012 at 11:20 AM (#4169387)
I can't say I'm a huge fan of the Blazers picking Meyers Leonard. The bust potential is very high there - one year wonder, injury issues, didn't really wow in the one year - but he could be good. I would've rather taken Tyler Zeller. Well, actually, I would've just said screw it and taken Jeremy Lamb. But Portland had it in their head that Aldridge at the 5 is not a good lineup (even though it was one of their best this season).
   2564. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 29, 2012 at 11:34 AM (#4169401)
Not only did the Sixers add two likely big contributors, they didn't take a risk on Meyer Lemon, Quince Roberts or any other citrus fruit.
   2565. steagles Posted: June 29, 2012 at 11:35 AM (#4169403)
I know college costs are soaring, but Perry Jones and Jared Sullinger just both spent ~$5 million for one year of school each. Whew.
if you assume that sullinger would have been the 5th overall pick last year, he's going to lose about $2 million per year over the next 4 years. if you assume he would have gone #1 (which is not unreasonable, considering the uncertainty with kyrie irving), he loses $4 million per year, over the next 4 years.


   2566. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 29, 2012 at 11:42 AM (#4169408)
Undrafted: Sloukas was the guy who came to mind at the time - but there's no one dude who I felt was a shocking omission. I presume that Machado is the domestic UFA who'll draw the most heat.

I like OKC as a landing place for Jones - culture emphasizing hard work, but not intolerant of youth. No pressure to perform immediately. Short run, there may be no better place for him.

Question: At one time, there was the notion that you really need to be able to go big in the playoffs, to battle the star centers on other teams. Has there been a culture shift here - with the expectation that you need to be able to go small? (Or is this just an outgrowth of the league's best centers not playing a major postseason role this year.)

   2567. Jimmy P Posted: June 29, 2012 at 11:54 AM (#4169426)
I like OKC as a landing place for Jones - culture emphasizing hard work, but not intolerant of youth. No pressure to perform immediately. Short run, there may be no better place for him.

Rusiello pointed out on Twitter this pick is the perfect after the fact analyzing. If Presti makes it, it's a masterstroke. If Kahn makes it, he's clueless.

That being said, I like the pick. I think the guy has real talent, I think he was always miscast. If they let him play the 3, I think he'll do well. He's just not a post player. Maybe he'll change his mindset to be one, but he's not right now.

Question: At one time, there was the notion that you really need to be able to go big in the playoffs, to battle the star centers on other teams. Has there been a culture shift here - with the expectation that you need to be able to go small? (Or is this just an outgrowth of the league's best centers not playing a major postseason role this year.)

There's just not that many quality bigs right now. Having a dominant one is a huge advantage - Howard, Garnett, Bynum when he cares - but teams are figuring out that playing someone solely because they are 7 feet tall, regardless of skill level, is a waste. They're starting to just put the five best players on the court.
   2568. andrewberg Posted: June 29, 2012 at 11:56 AM (#4169431)
Best undrafted players?

I like Henry Sims.


I think both Georgetown guys (Sims and Hollis Thompson) can and probably will find a role as bench guys. Sims is good for being a backup 5 that gets 5-10 minutes and Thompson is a highly efficient 3 point shooter.

-I correctly predicted that Stern would bait the NY/NJ fans by announcing the MIA pick as "the NBA Champion Miami Heat select..." True highlight of the evening.

-Loved that Fran Frischilla got to do something with the run of eastern European guys in the second round. I also enjoyed how the other guys made fun of him. It cracks me up that Bilas is so hyper-aware of the drinking game associated with him and now tries to bunch together saying "wingspan" as often as possible to mess with people trying to do that.

-Portland seems like they didn't get much for having 2 lottery picks. Jimmy did a good job explaining why I don't love the Leonard pick, and assuming that Lillard can transition just like Curry did is a pretty big leap. It might work, but neither of those guys is even a sure thing to be in a starting lineup, let alone an impact player.

-It is funny that Waiters at 4 let everyone else get the guy they wanted (Sacto with Robinson, Detroit with Drummond, GS with Barnes). I think they should have taken Barnes.

-Sorry to the Purdue guys here, but I was let down that the Wolves used their only pick on Robbie Hummel. I do not like that guy.

-It really seems like Houston is trying to corner the market on power forwards. They will enter the season- barring more moves- with Scola, Montiejunas, Morris, Jones, White. They are going to have to play someone out of position.
   2569. andrewberg Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:01 PM (#4169435)
There's just not that many quality bigs right now. Having a dominant one is a huge advantage - Howard, Garnett, Bynum when he cares - but teams are figuring out that playing someone solely because they are 7 feet tall, regardless of skill level, is a waste. They're starting to just put the five best players on the court.


One funny datapoint in that discussion is Kendrick Perkins. He was instrumental in OKC dispatching the Lakers because he can guard Bynum one-on-one. He was much less useful against SA and MIA- to the point that he may have been harming the team-, but he made a big difference in that specific matchup.
   2570. jmurph Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4169436)
They're starting to just put the five best players on the court.


This is my favorite development in the NBA of late, possibly ever. As much as I enjoy watching elite big men go to work, there's nothing I like less than crappy, unskilled players getting minutes because they happen to be tall.
   2571. Jimmy P Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4169437)
Oh, and let me just say how shocked I am that Indiana selected a white, high effort, Indiana native with their pick.
   2572. Jimmy P Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4169440)
-Sorry to the Purdue guys here, but I was let down that the Wolves used their only pick on Robbie Hummel. I do not like that guy.


Yeah, because the last thing that the Wolves need is a very smart player that passes well and can shoot.

Added: And is on a non-guaranteed deal
   2573. Jimmy P Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4169443)
Jimmy did a good job explaining why I don't love the Leonard pick, and assuming that Lillard can transition just like Curry did is a pretty big leap.

I actually like the Lillard pick. So happy that Portland didn't take Drummond. Lillard has skill, he's a basketball player.
   2574. andrewberg Posted: June 29, 2012 at 12:09 PM (#4169446)
Yeah, because the last thing that the Wolves need is a very smart player that passes well and can shoot.


I should have been more specific. I understand that he's a smart player, plays within his skills, etc, and he seems like a decent guy, but he is one of those players for whom I have a visceral and inexplicable dislike. Maybe it is that he goes by Robbie. I can't help it.
   2575. Joel W Posted: June 29, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4169542)
Mayo is now an unrestricted free agent. Where does he go?
   2576. andrewberg Posted: June 29, 2012 at 01:47 PM (#4169566)
Mayo is now an unrestricted free agent. Where does he go?


I know the Wolves are interested and have somewhere around $11m in cap space. If they want him, I don't think anyone else who is interested could offer him a better deal.

Bosh withdrew from the Olympics. So much for Dream Team redux.
   2577. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 29, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4169621)
As for Kevin Murphy, I hope he likes Mueslix.
   2578. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 29, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4169632)
How disinterested should I be in Fab Melo? I didn't see enough of him, though what I did see was pretty unimpressive.

He's better than Ryan Hollins today. Well, I think so. I also think he should be better than Stiemsma. So...

I can't say I'm a huge fan of the Blazers picking Meyers Leonard. The bust potential is very high there - one year wonder, injury issues, didn't really wow in the one year - but he could be good. I would've rather taken Tyler Zeller. Well, actually, I would've just said screw it and taken Jeremy Lamb. But Portland had it in their head that Aldridge at the 5 is not a good lineup (even though it was one of their best this season).

I think Leonard can eventually be a good player. He's an athlete, he works hard, has a good attitude. He just isn't offensively fluid. He can definitely be a good defender sooner rather than later. I see no reason to prefer Zeller over him. OTOH, the Blazers aren't exactly rebuilding here so both picks feel more rebuilding than retooling, so in that sense, it probably ups the pressure on Leonard to be productive sooner which then makes it more likely he busts (or at least busts in Portland and the next couple of teams get value from him).

I like OKC as a landing place for Jones - culture emphasizing hard work, but not intolerant of youth. No pressure to perform immediately. Short run, there may be no better place for him.

Rusiello pointed out on Twitter this pick is the perfect after the fact analyzing. If Presti makes it, it's a masterstroke. If Kahn makes it, he's clueless.


And that's bullshit. It's not a good pick because Presti made it, it's a good pick for the fit/team/environment/value. If Kahn made the pick (if the Wolves had a pick), it very well could have been rightfully mocked. But that's intentionally missing the point.

Yeah, because the last thing that the Wolves need is a very smart player that passes well and can shoot.

Hummel barely had NBA talent before the multiple knee injuries. He's simply not an NBA player.

Oh, and let me just say how shocked I am that Indiana selected a white, high effort, Indiana native with their pick.

Totally worthless pick, IMO. They could have used some of those guards that went in the 25-40 range, almost any of them would have been a better pick.

Mayo is now an unrestricted free agent. Where does he go?

Indy. They've been trying to get him for a while now, still have cap room (even after overpaying Hibbert this will be true), and he would be a good fit. That's probably more likely than Minnesota, unless the Wolves really overpay.
   2579. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 29, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4169638)
Couple of Bulls comments.

I like the Teague pick. He could help next year, has good value, and will be cheap for a while. Bulls don't have many young athletes (and their best athlete might never be the same again). Not sure I see a lot Rose/Teague backcourt time in the future, but it's about what you hope for with the 29th pick.

I finally got around to watching the Jordan flu game off my DVR. For those here who say it's been played up since then, I'm not sure about that. Marv Albert wouldn't shut up about how sick he was the entire game; seriously, every timeout, every dead ball, every time MJ did anything. Walton and Goukas played off that, and I'd bet that as much as anything else helped make that game so memorable. He sure looked sick, but had we had this thread at the time we would have been roasting Marv for how much he talked it up.
   2580. andrewberg Posted: June 29, 2012 at 03:09 PM (#4169663)
I like the Teague pick. He could help next year, has good value, and will be cheap for a while. Bulls don't have many young athletes (and their best athlete might never be the same again). Not sure I see a lot Rose/Teague backcourt time in the future, but it's about what you hope for with the 29th pick.


He will also get the chance to develop with meaningful minutes under a good coach and with good teammates. That is more than you can say about most project-type picks. It may help maximize his value in a year or two and return a better fit in a trade that they couldn't have netted with a late first rounder otherwise.
   2581. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 29, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4169683)
Mayo: I also thought Indy - we know they were interested in him before as well.

Hummel: His body Cuonzoed.

***

I find Leonard v. Zeller interesting - they're pretty similar players.

Physically, Leonard's a half inch taller, with better reach and a bit stronger. Tyler's a better runner (though both run well).

Here's the pace-adjusted per 40 numbers from their sophomore years (with Zeller's senior year added for good measure):
MLso 17.4 pts, 10.4 reb, 1.7 ast, 0.6 stl, 2.7 to, 2.4 blk, 58% FG, 72% FT, 11.5 FGA, 5.0 FTA
TZso 19.8 pts, 9.8 reb, 0.5 ast, 1.1 stl, 2.7 to, 1.9 blk, 52% FG, 72% FT, 15.0 FGA, 5.6 FTA
TZsr 21.1 pts, 12.4 reb, 1.2 ast, 1.2 stl, 2.5 to, 2.0 blk, 55% FG, 81% FT, 13.5 FGA, 7.6 FTA

Not that different. Zeller's lack of passing was an issue (and still is, though he got up to 1.2 A/40 by his senior year). Both are decent to good jump shooters who don't take them that often. Both somewhat fluid athletes (Leonard more so) with kind of mechanical games on offense.

If you wanted to argue for Zeller, I think you'd emphasize his demonstrated (in college) ability to get to the line, superior position defense, and maybe 'intangibles'. There's also the possibility that his improved rebounding as a senior reflects a real development in his game beyond aging - bluntly, he added some toughness he was missing before - but I don't place too much stock in that personally.

If you wanted to argue for Leonard - he'll always be the better shot blocker of the two, has more potential in the low post (imo) and - in general - a slightly higher ceiling.

***

I don't really like Teague, but I didn't like the elder Teague either and he's surpassed my expectations. Certainly a good spot for him.
   2582. kpelton Posted: June 29, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4169858)
Maybe it is that he goes by Robbie.

So which do you prefer?
Rob Hummel
Robert Hummel
Bob Hummel
Bobby Hummel
Roberto Hummel
   2583. PJ Martinez Posted: June 29, 2012 at 09:49 PM (#4169860)
Bosh withdrew from the Olympics. So much for Dream Team redux.

This is sarcastic, right? Just checking.

As for Mayo, Ainge has always seemed to like him, and Ray Allen might be gone, but I'm not sure what Boston can offer (or what Mayo will command, for that matter). Also he'd have to come off the bench, since Bradley will start.
   2584. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 29, 2012 at 11:21 PM (#4169909)
ESPN's First Take promotes racist Skip Bayless comment via twitter. (Bayless' purported comment: “I'm totally against taking American-born white players in the first round of the draft” has since been taken down.)
   2585. baudib Posted: June 30, 2012 at 03:44 AM (#4169972)
This got posted on Liberty Ballers for no apparent reason. Iverson crossing Jordan early in his career. This clip is epic, from Dwyane Wade talking about it to hearing Phil Jackson calling out "Michael" for him to switch out. And BTW, Jordan STILL almost blocks it. From memory, Iverson had some huge games against Jordan, one of the few (only?) players to get the better of him on a fairly regular basis.

A.I. talks about crossing Jordan
   2586. baudib Posted: June 30, 2012 at 03:45 AM (#4169973)
This one might be better though.

Another A.I. crossover
   2587. JJ1986 Posted: June 30, 2012 at 11:25 AM (#4170034)
KG re-ups for three years, $34m.
   2588. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: June 30, 2012 at 11:49 AM (#4170037)
[2585] I will never forget that moment. Loved every bit of it.

[2587] Seems low on AAV long on years. If I was a BOS fan (ugh), I'd take it.
   2589. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: June 30, 2012 at 12:39 PM (#4170052)
I wonder if ESPN is approaching or soon will approach a point of no return with Bayless. Ratings are great, but I can't imagine "First Take" is some kind of juggernaut, and you do eventually reach a point where someone embarrasses your network so badly that you can't tolerate his presence any longer.
   2590. Joel W Posted: June 30, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4170054)
@2588, I think that's exactly right on the KG deal, and I think that was going to be the case no matter what. Makes sense for both sides frankly. Celtics get the cap space in the years they are relevant because of KG, and will lose it in the years they are irrelevant. I wonder if they go after Mayo, and basically have two of Mayo, Rondo, and Bradley on the court at all times.
   2591. PJ Martinez Posted: June 30, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4170068)
I imagine Ainge may go after Mayo, and also that he's trying to figure out a way to get Josh Smith (though he may not have the pieces).

As a Celtics fan, I love that KG deal.
   2592. baudib Posted: June 30, 2012 at 02:47 PM (#4170091)
ESPN needs Bayless because he gives them someone to vigorously support Tim Tebow as an NFL quarterback.
   2593. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 30, 2012 at 09:15 PM (#4170272)
T-3 hrs 'til free agency.

I'm a little surprised that PHI didn't extend Meeks the QO - guess he'd fallen farther out of favor than I'd guessed.

Seeing rumors that the Lakers will try to sign Calderon as an FA if he's amnestied by TOR (as part of a Steve Nash pursuit). This tells me that there are reporters out there who have no idea how the amnesty process works.

I don't see that Farmar opting in with BRK means that they can't also sign Kidd to work with Deron. It's not like you want Kidd guarding ones anyway or that Farmar can't be traded.

Anyone here have an opinion of Alexey Shved? I kind of like him (took him in the toward the end of round 2 in a mock draft the year he came out) - he's sort of like (not looking at his #s) as a weird blend of Rudy Fernandez and Goran Dragic.
   2594. tshipman Posted: June 30, 2012 at 09:25 PM (#4170276)
Seeing rumors that the Lakers will try to sign Calderon as an FA if he's amnestied by TOR (as part of a Steve Nash pursuit). This tells me that there are reporters out there who have no idea how the amnesty process works.


Man. I like Calderon, but he's like Swiss cheese on defense.
   2595. The District Attorney Posted: June 30, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4170280)
Yeah, Bill Simmons and Chad Ford both seemed to think Nash to TOR for something like $40M/4 yr made sense. (Simmons: "Promise him the coach job!... Promise him the GM job!... Give him part ownership of the team!")
   2596. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 30, 2012 at 09:43 PM (#4170282)
Calderon: He can shoot and he can create (even if the assists overrate him). Pretty sure somebody puts a bid out there.

Nash on TOR: Not sure how to evaluate that one, honestly. If they do sign him, what's the PR benefit - their added ability to get folks in the seats? How will his body react to not having the Suns staff / using Canadian health care? (j/k on that 2nd thing).
You know, he did post a +8.1 simple rating last year - a figure that probably would lead over half the teams in the league. Amazing dude...
   2597. steagles Posted: June 30, 2012 at 11:08 PM (#4170307)
I'm a little surprised that PHI didn't extend Meeks the QO - guess he'd fallen farther out of favor than I'd guessed.
i think he hit certain escalators that put his QO up around $3 million. i won't say that he's won't be worth that next season, but i will say that he didn't earn it with his play last season.
   2598. The District Attorney Posted: June 30, 2012 at 11:19 PM (#4170310)
Wojo:
In a potential move that would cripple their aspirations of eventually acquiring Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard, the Brooklyn Nets are engaged in talks with the Atlanta Hawks on a deal for All-Star swingman Joe Johnson, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
Well, when you put it that way, sign me up!

While the Nets were discussing the possible deal for Johnson, they also were deep in talks with the Houston Rockets about acquiring power forward Luis Scola for a package of expiring contracts and a future draft pick, league sources said. There was a sense on both sides that a deal could be imminent, but it eventually hit a snag and fell apart, sources said. Unless the two sides completed the deal before midnight ET on Saturday, a potential trade would have to wait until July 11 for completion, when the league lifts its embargo for transactions.

If the Nets don't make a deal for Johnson, they're strongly considering a significant offer to Memphis Grizzlies free-agent shooting guard O.J. Mayo, sources said.

Multiple league sources believe the Nets are losing hope they can pry Howard out of Orlando, and are working diligently to construct a roster to keep Williams that doesn't necessarily give them the financial flexibility to absorb Howard when he can become a free agent next year.
Deron would want to play with these guys? They could very easily screw themselves both ways on this.
   2599. JJ1986 Posted: July 01, 2012 at 12:07 AM (#4170337)
Alex Kennedy tweeted that Dwight Howard is trying to nullify the opt-in that he just agreed to sign a few months ago. I don't understand why he signed it if he never had any intention of staying in Orlando.
   2600. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 01, 2012 at 12:41 AM (#4170362)
meeks - $3.1m, iirc. i can see why they didn't offer it, i was just surprised.
dh12: well, he does appear to be a doofus.
isojoe: finger mf'n crossed.
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