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Right, but the whole Houston discussion started from a poster (I'm too lazy to look back at who it was) that said he didn't think Houston would be a very attractive location for free agents. My disagreement was basically just saying what you said in your paragraph above. Once you remove the few teams that do have notable market advantages since most of them are about capped out anyway, and once you remove the "C'mon, who wants to live in Milwaukee?" type of cities that really do have a notable market DISadvantage, then Houston is as good a place as any of the ones left to pick up FA's.
But then again, I've never been there other than a couple of airport layovers, so maybe it really is as vile a place as 2476 and 2480 say it is. I'll concede the rankings of the city itself to those who've had the misfortune of experiencing it. :)
Our backup point guards were Earl Watson and Jamaal Tinsley last season. This doesn't surprise me at all.
No one knows.
You made a big point earlier in this discussion, when we were talking about Durant, Jordan and Portland's draft history, of saying you don't like dealing in what-ifs.
I suppose your point (again) is that your team (and the Raptors and a few others) are at a huge, unfair,(you have used that word) structural disadvantage due to location. Obviously, LA, New York, and Miami have some advantages over Salt Lake City in the context of NBA free agency. But I think it has been well-demonstrated by a variety of posters with a variety of facts that you are probably overstating the effects of this advantage to a pretty significant degree. If you don't believe me since I am a Lakers fan, I would guess that Clippers and Knicks fans might have some opinions on the matter.
I think you are looking too much at location and the victimization narrative and not enough at the individual guys. Kareem was born in New York and went to college in LA and played/came of age in a time when race issues were very different than they are now. It is therefore unsurprising that he wanted to play in New York or LA. Shaq is something of an entertainer and wanted to be in LA, and the Lakers had a decent core of talent waiting for him, so he wanted to be there. James wanted to play with his friends and play for a huge figure in NBA history, Riley.
But OTOH Duncan, a quiet sort in a great organization with a deep respect for his coach, stayed in San Antonio. Durant was born in DC but went to college in Texas, and he has chosen to stay in OKC. Garnett, known as a guy who is intensely loyal, stayed in Minnesota 12 years. Karl Malone, a rancher/farmer/hunter/rural type of guy, stayed in Utah 20 years and I think still lives there. Stockton stayed there as well. Anthony chose NY--but he was born in Brooklyn. Olajuwon stayed in Houston after attending college there.
The current threesome...well, we still don't know where they will end up. But Williams is thinking of going home to Dallas. Howard has not as of yet forced a deal either to Brooklyn or to the Lakers/Clippers. Paul may stay in LA, but given the organizational history of the Clippers, he may not.
Basically, if the org is good and the money is there, guys will usually stay, I think. But it really depends on who the guy is and what he wants.
Um, NBA players probably don't have the same tastes as us. So, I'd think that Toronto, Memphis, Utah, and Portland are all way way below Houston. And, Toronto's going to be way down because I'm sure players don't want to live in the cold AND pay Canadian taxes.
Yeah, but there is plenty of time to shop around for other options that aren't as overpriced.
I never intended to get back into the big market/small market discussion. We've all already been there, and I think everyone spoke their piece sufficiently. All I was saying with the whole Houston thing was in reponse to a poster that said he didn't think the city would be a very attractive option to free agents. I just basically said that I didn't think it had any specific DISADVANTAGES either when it comes to signing FA's, which you've agreed with. Therefore, if they make the right moves regarding payroll, roster construction, etc, I don't see any reason why the Rockets can't be a contender for the likes of Howard, Paul, or Williams. You would agree with this, yes?
As for the Raptors/superfriends thing, no, I don't think that would have ever happened in Toronto, just like I don't think the Raps have any shot at Howard/Paul/Williams no matter what they do. But you're right that I don't like to get into hypotheticals too much. The Raptors comment was just a sidenote in parenthesis of one of my Houston posts anyway, not a major point that I expected to start another debate about market size.
My honest point in this whole part of the discussion was literally just to wonder whether the city of Houston sucked badly enough that players wouldn't want to play there. A few people said yes. Others said no. That's good enough for me. :)
2. Am I the only one that thinks ESPN's questioning of him and his sister was really ####### insensitive?
EDIT: Guess not
(for all my kvetching about the top of the draft this year, it does have quality depth)
Doesn't mean I do that deal if I'm Cleveland, though.
I take Sullinger there 11 times out of 10.
Jenkins? Really? I mean, he can shoot from deep - but that's it.
Plumlee?! I mean, big, good athlete, can rebound - but ... eew.
Rockets pulling Terrence Jones at 18 is the steal of a fairly orderly draft so far to me.
PJ3 should've maaaaybe gone out last year.
Only without that pesky basketball IQ.
PJ3 sighting! #28 to OKC.
I like the Warriors getting Barnes at 7.
Obviously I think Drummond at 9 was a steal, but I would be concerned about how you play Monroe and Drummond together. Not sure you can.
LOVE Terrence Jones at 18.
Evan Fournier looks like a girl.
Sullinger at 21 is a great pick--another Leon Powe for Boston.
I forgot the Lakers didn't have a first again this year. How lame is that.
i wasn't a fan of moultrie at 15, and i'm not a fan of the trade to get him at 27. i know the sixers aren't on the hook for anything better than a mid-first round pick, but i still don't think that was good value.
and coming into the draft with 2 second round picks, they leave the draft with exactly 0 second round players on the roster.
there's still a lot of time before the start of the next season, so i could be wrong, but right now, i'd put the over/under for sixers wins at 31. hawesome and lou williams are free agents, and though i wouldn't break the bank to get either of them back, i can't help but think that whoever replaces them in the rotation will be a massive downgrade over their performances this year. vucevic was handled very poorly this past season, and i really have little confidence in his ability to come back next year and immediately be an impact player. they gave him no room to grow last season, and i think it's going to really hurt them this season.
and even if they trade iguodala, i have fairly little confidence in evan turner right now to step up and be an offensive gamebreaker. like with vucevic, the sixers did a very poor job of developing turner last season.
right now, to my eyes, next season looks like a transition year. the keys to the franchise will likely be handed over to jrue, turner, harkless, young, allen, moultrie and vucevic, and i can't help but feel that none of them have actually been developed in a manner that would allow them to thrive with the newfound responsibility.
Isn't this around the time when everyone tunes Collins out and a couple guys get injured? They win 30 games and fire Collins. I feel like that's the part of the movie that we're at with the Sixers.
Picking up Perry Jones is a good move by OKC. Perry Jones is like a lump of clay, he could potentially be molded to whatever the team needs. On that team, he won't have to worry about carrying any kind of scoring load, that's for sure.
Marquis Teague to the Bulls and Sullinger to the Celtics are better than they types of guys that usually go in the 20s.
I like Henry Sims.
Isn't that the only thing he's even half decent at though?
I also like the Sullinger pick for Boston. It's a shame that I now have to hate Sullinger, because he's a Celtic.
I like OKC as a landing place for Jones - culture emphasizing hard work, but not intolerant of youth. No pressure to perform immediately. Short run, there may be no better place for him.
Question: At one time, there was the notion that you really need to be able to go big in the playoffs, to battle the star centers on other teams. Has there been a culture shift here - with the expectation that you need to be able to go small? (Or is this just an outgrowth of the league's best centers not playing a major postseason role this year.)
Rusiello pointed out on Twitter this pick is the perfect after the fact analyzing. If Presti makes it, it's a masterstroke. If Kahn makes it, he's clueless.
That being said, I like the pick. I think the guy has real talent, I think he was always miscast. If they let him play the 3, I think he'll do well. He's just not a post player. Maybe he'll change his mindset to be one, but he's not right now.
Question: At one time, there was the notion that you really need to be able to go big in the playoffs, to battle the star centers on other teams. Has there been a culture shift here - with the expectation that you need to be able to go small? (Or is this just an outgrowth of the league's best centers not playing a major postseason role this year.)
There's just not that many quality bigs right now. Having a dominant one is a huge advantage - Howard, Garnett, Bynum when he cares - but teams are figuring out that playing someone solely because they are 7 feet tall, regardless of skill level, is a waste. They're starting to just put the five best players on the court.
I think both Georgetown guys (Sims and Hollis Thompson) can and probably will find a role as bench guys. Sims is good for being a backup 5 that gets 5-10 minutes and Thompson is a highly efficient 3 point shooter.
-I correctly predicted that Stern would bait the NY/NJ fans by announcing the MIA pick as "the NBA Champion Miami Heat select..." True highlight of the evening.
-Loved that Fran Frischilla got to do something with the run of eastern European guys in the second round. I also enjoyed how the other guys made fun of him. It cracks me up that Bilas is so hyper-aware of the drinking game associated with him and now tries to bunch together saying "wingspan" as often as possible to mess with people trying to do that.
-Portland seems like they didn't get much for having 2 lottery picks. Jimmy did a good job explaining why I don't love the Leonard pick, and assuming that Lillard can transition just like Curry did is a pretty big leap. It might work, but neither of those guys is even a sure thing to be in a starting lineup, let alone an impact player.
-It is funny that Waiters at 4 let everyone else get the guy they wanted (Sacto with Robinson, Detroit with Drummond, GS with Barnes). I think they should have taken Barnes.
-Sorry to the Purdue guys here, but I was let down that the Wolves used their only pick on Robbie Hummel. I do not like that guy.
-It really seems like Houston is trying to corner the market on power forwards. They will enter the season- barring more moves- with Scola, Montiejunas, Morris, Jones, White. They are going to have to play someone out of position.
One funny datapoint in that discussion is Kendrick Perkins. He was instrumental in OKC dispatching the Lakers because he can guard Bynum one-on-one. He was much less useful against SA and MIA- to the point that he may have been harming the team-, but he made a big difference in that specific matchup.
This is my favorite development in the NBA of late, possibly ever. As much as I enjoy watching elite big men go to work, there's nothing I like less than crappy, unskilled players getting minutes because they happen to be tall.
Yeah, because the last thing that the Wolves need is a very smart player that passes well and can shoot.
Added: And is on a non-guaranteed deal
I actually like the Lillard pick. So happy that Portland didn't take Drummond. Lillard has skill, he's a basketball player.
I should have been more specific. I understand that he's a smart player, plays within his skills, etc, and he seems like a decent guy, but he is one of those players for whom I have a visceral and inexplicable dislike. Maybe it is that he goes by Robbie. I can't help it.
I know the Wolves are interested and have somewhere around $11m in cap space. If they want him, I don't think anyone else who is interested could offer him a better deal.
Bosh withdrew from the Olympics. So much for Dream Team redux.
He's better than Ryan Hollins today. Well, I think so. I also think he should be better than Stiemsma. So...
I can't say I'm a huge fan of the Blazers picking Meyers Leonard. The bust potential is very high there - one year wonder, injury issues, didn't really wow in the one year - but he could be good. I would've rather taken Tyler Zeller. Well, actually, I would've just said screw it and taken Jeremy Lamb. But Portland had it in their head that Aldridge at the 5 is not a good lineup (even though it was one of their best this season).
I think Leonard can eventually be a good player. He's an athlete, he works hard, has a good attitude. He just isn't offensively fluid. He can definitely be a good defender sooner rather than later. I see no reason to prefer Zeller over him. OTOH, the Blazers aren't exactly rebuilding here so both picks feel more rebuilding than retooling, so in that sense, it probably ups the pressure on Leonard to be productive sooner which then makes it more likely he busts (or at least busts in Portland and the next couple of teams get value from him).
And that's ########. It's not a good pick because Presti made it, it's a good pick for the fit/team/environment/value. If Kahn made the pick (if the Wolves had a pick), it very well could have been rightfully mocked. But that's intentionally missing the point.
Yeah, because the last thing that the Wolves need is a very smart player that passes well and can shoot.
Hummel barely had NBA talent before the multiple knee injuries. He's simply not an NBA player.
Oh, and let me just say how shocked I am that Indiana selected a white, high effort, Indiana native with their pick.
Totally worthless pick, IMO. They could have used some of those guards that went in the 25-40 range, almost any of them would have been a better pick.
Mayo is now an unrestricted free agent. Where does he go?
Indy. They've been trying to get him for a while now, still have cap room (even after overpaying Hibbert this will be true), and he would be a good fit. That's probably more likely than Minnesota, unless the Wolves really overpay.
I like the Teague pick. He could help next year, has good value, and will be cheap for a while. Bulls don't have many young athletes (and their best athlete might never be the same again). Not sure I see a lot Rose/Teague backcourt time in the future, but it's about what you hope for with the 29th pick.
I finally got around to watching the Jordan flu game off my DVR. For those here who say it's been played up since then, I'm not sure about that. Marv Albert wouldn't shut up about how sick he was the entire game; seriously, every timeout, every dead ball, every time MJ did anything. Walton and Goukas played off that, and I'd bet that as much as anything else helped make that game so memorable. He sure looked sick, but had we had this thread at the time we would have been roasting Marv for how much he talked it up.
He will also get the chance to develop with meaningful minutes under a good coach and with good teammates. That is more than you can say about most project-type picks. It may help maximize his value in a year or two and return a better fit in a trade that they couldn't have netted with a late first rounder otherwise.
Hummel: His body Cuonzoed.
***
I find Leonard v. Zeller interesting - they're pretty similar players.
Physically, Leonard's a half inch taller, with better reach and a bit stronger. Tyler's a better runner (though both run well).
Here's the pace-adjusted per 40 numbers from their sophomore years (with Zeller's senior year added for good measure):
MLso 17.4 pts, 10.4 reb, 1.7 ast, 0.6 stl, 2.7 to, 2.4 blk, 58% FG, 72% FT, 11.5 FGA, 5.0 FTA
TZso 19.8 pts, 9.8 reb, 0.5 ast, 1.1 stl, 2.7 to, 1.9 blk, 52% FG, 72% FT, 15.0 FGA, 5.6 FTA
TZsr 21.1 pts, 12.4 reb, 1.2 ast, 1.2 stl, 2.5 to, 2.0 blk, 55% FG, 81% FT, 13.5 FGA, 7.6 FTA
Not that different. Zeller's lack of passing was an issue (and still is, though he got up to 1.2 A/40 by his senior year). Both are decent to good jump shooters who don't take them that often. Both somewhat fluid athletes (Leonard more so) with kind of mechanical games on offense.
If you wanted to argue for Zeller, I think you'd emphasize his demonstrated (in college) ability to get to the line, superior position defense, and maybe 'intangibles'. There's also the possibility that his improved rebounding as a senior reflects a real development in his game beyond aging - bluntly, he added some toughness he was missing before - but I don't place too much stock in that personally.
If you wanted to argue for Leonard - he'll always be the better shot blocker of the two, has more potential in the low post (imo) and - in general - a slightly higher ceiling.
***
I don't really like Teague, but I didn't like the elder Teague either and he's surpassed my expectations. Certainly a good spot for him.
So which do you prefer?
Rob Hummel
Robert Hummel
Bob Hummel
Bobby Hummel
Roberto Hummel
This is sarcastic, right? Just checking.
As for Mayo, Ainge has always seemed to like him, and Ray Allen might be gone, but I'm not sure what Boston can offer (or what Mayo will command, for that matter). Also he'd have to come off the bench, since Bradley will start.
A.I. talks about crossing Jordan
Another A.I. crossover
[2587] Seems low on AAV long on years. If I was a BOS fan (ugh), I'd take it.
As a Celtics fan, I love that KG deal.
I'm a little surprised that PHI didn't extend Meeks the QO - guess he'd fallen farther out of favor than I'd guessed.
Seeing rumors that the Lakers will try to sign Calderon as an FA if he's amnestied by TOR (as part of a Steve Nash pursuit). This tells me that there are reporters out there who have no idea how the amnesty process works.
I don't see that Farmar opting in with BRK means that they can't also sign Kidd to work with Deron. It's not like you want Kidd guarding ones anyway or that Farmar can't be traded.
Anyone here have an opinion of Alexey Shved? I kind of like him (took him in the toward the end of round 2 in a mock draft the year he came out) - he's sort of like (not looking at his #s) as a weird blend of Rudy Fernandez and Goran Dragic.
Man. I like Calderon, but he's like Swiss cheese on defense.
Nash on TOR: Not sure how to evaluate that one, honestly. If they do sign him, what's the PR benefit - their added ability to get folks in the seats? How will his body react to not having the Suns staff / using Canadian health care? (j/k on that 2nd thing).
You know, he did post a +8.1 simple rating last year - a figure that probably would lead over half the teams in the league. Amazing dude...
Deron would want to play with these guys? They could very easily screw themselves both ways on this.
dh12: well, he does appear to be a doofus.
isojoe: finger mf'n crossed.
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