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Saturday, March 03, 2012

OT: NBA Monthly Thread, March 2012

I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the inevitable blacklash against Linsanity, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: Ryan Braun Urine, Players Being in the Best Shape of Their Lives, and what Eric Chavez thinks about the Moneyball movie.

Tripon Posted: March 03, 2012 at 08:39 AM | 1861 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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Page 19 of 19 pages ‹ First  < 14 15 16 17 18 19
   1801. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: March 30, 2012 at 01:40 PM (#4093033)
Is it possible that Barnes was a guy who was really tall and really good at shooting a basketball at a young age, but whose upside is limited beyond that?


You mean like Kevin Durant?

:)
   1802. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: March 30, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4093039)
That's five in a row for OKC, three of them against playoff teams, two of them easy wins against the Lakers and Heat. I refuse to believe there's a team out there that's better than OKC in anything but the smallest of ways.

They're also going to beat the Bulls on Sunday, very possibly handily, since there's almost no chance Rose is playing (even though he really wants to). Rip is supposed to play tonight, so that's....something.

I don't know how much stock we can put on individual matchups or single regular season games, especially this season*. But OKC continues to impress against the good teams (23-8 vs. over .500). However, they are a pretty big step behind defensively the Bulls and Heat. Looking at the rankings, there probably is some SOS issues East/West stuff, but the gap between them and Chicago in DRtg is nearly as big of a gap as them and the Wizards; OTOH, they're starting to pull away in ORtg over the last couple of weeks. Matchups dictate a lot in the playoffs, too, and they might be in some trouble if they run into SA.

*Considering how much you've been down on the Lakers this year, is an easy win over them really supposed to sound that impressive?
   1803. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: March 30, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4093041)
Grant Hill might miss the rest of the year with knee surgery. It's a minor miracle he's still playing at this age with the problems he's had. So part of me wonders if this is the end for him, no matter what the current prognosis might be.
   1804. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 30, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4093056)
*Considering how much you've been down on the Lakers this year, is an easy win over them really supposed to sound that impressive?
I'm down on them, but it's a relative down. They've gone from an elite team to a second tier team, but they're still a tough out for even an elite team. OKC's got two easy, double-digit wins over them. Part of it is that OKC is a tough match-up for the Lakers — their two strongest positions are also the Lakers' two weakest — but it's not just the win over LA that makes me say that. Miami's got a great defense, and OKC rolled them easily. Other than San Antonio and maaaaaaaybe Memphis, who match up well against them, I don't see another team taking them out in the West. I don't know that either the Heat or Chicago match up against them great, either. We'll see.
   1805. Maxwn Posted: March 30, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4093079)
Mayo can shoot some threes and is a very good defender

Yeah, I don't think I can agree with this. I think he's improved some on defense the last year or two, but "very good" seems like a massive overbid to me. He's undersized, has a mediocre wingspan for an nba player, and honestly I think his athleticism is fairly mediocre as well. He's much less quick than he looks. He's still a useful player to have, but I think he's lined up to be overpaid significantly this offseason by somebody.
   1806. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: March 30, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4093091)
I don't know that either the Heat or Chicago match up against them great, either. We'll see.

In spite of the last time they met, I actually like how the Heat match up with them. Crunch time, they should have Wade on Westbrook, Battier on Harden, and LBJ on Durant - or switch those last 2 if you want or put LBJ on Westbrook and Wade on Harden. The fact that they have those options, and aren't stuck playing them a certain way, is a big advantage. The Thunder only have 1 wing anywhere near the Wade/LBJ/Battier level defensively, and Sefolosha isn't going to be playing that much. Plus, the Heat have the only big that can get offense on his own. I think the Heat match up with OKC a lot better than they (the Heat) match up with the Bulls. I am also a Chicago homer, so I can't comprehend how the Bulls don't match up against them.

I think the Thunder are another wing defender away (or improvement from one of the current wings on the defensive side) and possibly more reliable offense in the frontcourt (or continued improvement from Ibaka) from being favored, or considered better, than Chicago or Miami. Doesn't mean they couldn't or wouldn't beat them in a series, especially if they have an easier go of it in the WCF while the Bulls and Heat beat each other up in the ECF.
   1807. smileyy Posted: March 30, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4093181)
Echoing [1806], in a playoff series, I can't imagine Miami's bigs being that dreadful 4 times. Take away Ibaka and Perkins dunking all over the Heat, and that's a real game.
   1808. Jimmy P Posted: March 30, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4093282)
I like Zeller a whole lot better than Marshall, Henson, and Barnes

Agreed. And Henson is going to get way overdrafted. Just like Ed Davis and Brendon Wright.
   1809. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: March 30, 2012 at 05:49 PM (#4093344)
And Henson is going to get way overdrafted. Just like Ed Davis and Brendon Wright.

NBA teams have been overdrafting Roy Williams coached big men since Mark Randall. Can't explain how it keeps happening even though he's basically the only coach whose offense is built around getting high-quality, two-point shots for big men anymore. I think it is, in context of the times, a really weird (and successful) offensive system. I don't get why it's considered so unremarkable.
   1810. Jimmy P Posted: March 30, 2012 at 05:56 PM (#4093353)
the only coach whose offense is built around getting high-quality, two-point shots for big men anymore

What's even more amazing is how inept on offense Henson, Davis, and Wright looked in that system. None of them look like they can do more than dunk on offense.
   1811. smileyy Posted: March 30, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4093358)
One can only imagine how the Chicago Bulls would have turned out had they drafted Pete Chilcutt or George Ackles or Joe Wylie instead of Mark Randall with 1991's 26th pick. Maybe they coulda had a dynasty.

(Ike Austin and Bobby Phills went in the 2nd round, the only players of note in the 2nd round of that draft)
   1812. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: March 30, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4093360)
One can only imagine how the Chicago Bulls would have turned out had they drafted Pete Chilcutt or George Ackles or Joe Wylie instead of Mark Randall with 1991's 26th pick. Maybe they coulda had a dynasty.

(Ike Austin and Bobby Phills went in the 2nd round, the only players of note in the 2nd round of that draft)

My apologies to Mr. Randall and the Chicago Bulls organization.
   1813. nick swisher hygiene Posted: March 30, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4093379)
1810--Henson has a surprisingly good mid-range game, actually; what he doesn't have is basic low post moves. He's also a very good interior passer. His offensive game is exactly wrong for his body type, wd be one way to put it.

Hmmm--were Wright and Davis huge overdrafts? Wright at #8 sure looked like it, though he may finally be figuring things out. Davis at #14--he's the same age as Zeller, with a much less developed offensive game: seems to be playing worse this year than last.

I dunno: guys whose games aren't there yet go out early, go high in the draft, end up on shitty teams and fail to develop. This does not strike me as necessarily a Carolina-specific phenomenon.

But if it is true, then it explains how Ty Lawson was underrated. And it means Marshall at #15 maybe doesn't look so crazy.....
   1814. JC in DC Posted: March 30, 2012 at 08:00 PM (#4093419)
I assume STEAGLES is currently gouging out his eyes.
   1815. steagles Posted: March 30, 2012 at 08:18 PM (#4093427)
I assume STEAGLES is currently gouging out his eyes.
there was literally noone who played well in the first half.
   1816. JC in DC Posted: March 30, 2012 at 08:41 PM (#4093433)
except Nene.
   1817. smileyy Posted: March 30, 2012 at 10:08 PM (#4093457)
I dunno: guys whose games aren't there yet go out early, go high in the draft, end up on shitty teams and fail to develop. This does not strike me as necessarily a Carolina-specific phenomenon.


Is this DeMarcus's Law? He strikes me as the kind of guy who will be good eventually, but by the time he is, he won't be playing for the team who drafted him. See also: Tyson Chandler

This draft looks like a one (maybe two) player draft -- Davis and MKG as the only ones who are going to be franchise impact players. Someone's going to overdraft Drummond because they always do with centers, so the #3 team has some hope. There might be a few later-first-round treasures, but those are hard to spot now.
   1818. Into the Void Posted: March 30, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4093465)
Is this DeMarcus's Law? He strikes me as the kind of guy who will be good eventually, but by the time he is, he won't be playing for the team who drafted him.


Good, eventually? He's in his second year, 21 years old, and averaging 17 points and 11 boards per game. There's not too many other centers in the league putting up those numbers.
   1819. smileyy Posted: March 30, 2012 at 10:26 PM (#4093468)
Whoops. I hadn't checked his stats lately, and assumed he was still fouling out in 20 minutes. I confused his headcasishness and the Kings execrebility with a lack of performance by him. I really just wanted the name to echo "DeMorgan's Law".
   1820. Into the Void Posted: March 30, 2012 at 10:30 PM (#4093473)
Yeah, ever since Westphal got fired and Smart took over he's been an absolute beast, on the offensive end anyway. No idea how his defense is.
   1821. PJ Martinez Posted: March 30, 2012 at 10:31 PM (#4093474)
1811 & 1812 are my favorite comments on this thread in a long time.
   1822. smileyy Posted: March 30, 2012 at 10:34 PM (#4093476)
I'll feel better when STEAGLES posts again. I want to make sure he's still alive. Blown out by the Generals? Ouch.

I want Jordan Crawford on my Hacking Mass fantasy team.
   1823. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 30, 2012 at 10:37 PM (#4093478)
Dirk! That's just insane that he can do that!
   1824. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: March 30, 2012 at 10:46 PM (#4093483)
sportsguy33 Dream scenario: Celts win division, get Indy in Rd 1, a hobbled Rose in Rd 2, Orlando in Rd 3, then old fart Lakers in Finals. Youneverknow.


Talk about obnoxious...first place for like 5 minutes. They still won't win the division.
   1825. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 30, 2012 at 11:09 PM (#4093500)
And a Celtic fan calling the Lakers old farts? Really?
   1826. smileyy Posted: March 30, 2012 at 11:54 PM (#4093533)
He may as well wish the C's face Charlotte and Washington in the playoffs -- that's about as likely.
   1827. Famous Original Joe C Posted: March 31, 2012 at 12:06 AM (#4093537)
Talk about obnoxious...first place for like 5 minutes. They still won't win the division.

Oh, get over it, he said "dream scenario". He's a Celtics fan. Talk about touchy.

And besides, as smiley said, it's a 0% chance of happening anyway unless the Heat team plane crashes.

I am perfectly happy with seeing them play their asses off and being a tough out for whoever.
   1828. steagles Posted: March 31, 2012 at 12:22 AM (#4093546)
I'll feel better when STEAGLES posts again. I want to make sure he's still alive. Blown out by the Generals? Ouch.
i'm fine. i'm not especially confident at the moment, but i'm fine.

last year, i thought the sixers could do some damage against anyone they played coming out of the east. right now, though, i'm seeing a lot of landmines. miami, orlando, and indiana, specifically. the sixers just are not playing well, and the weaknesses that they had coming into the season have turned into gaping wounds as this season has gone on. they're getting killed at the FT line, they're terrible at crashing the offensive glass, and at this point, if they're playing a team that gets hot from beyond the arc, they're at an almost insurmountable disadvantage. of their 23 losses, 19 have now come against opponents that have hit 5 or more 3s. that's against just 9 wins, so they're basically batting .330 in such games.

for a frame of reference, miami is 32-12 in such games. chicago is 16-6. orlando is 25-12. indiana is 21-18. atlanta is 24-15. new york and boston are at least kind of in the sixers ballpark, with new york having a record of just 16-21 and boston at 11-16, but the sixers are easily a step below both teams.

i mean at least there's kind of a saving grace, in that the sixers are the 2nd best team in the NBA in opponent's 3P% and they're 3rd in opponent's made 3s, but still, that's a hell of a weakness to have going into the playoffs.
   1829. andrewberg Posted: March 31, 2012 at 12:30 PM (#4093740)
The c's shouldn't be too excited about beating the wolves without their second, third, fifth, and sixth best players.
   1830. PJ Martinez Posted: March 31, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4093760)
The c's shouldn't be too excited about beating the wolves without their second, third, fifth, and sixth best players.

Was there any indication the Celtics were especially excited about that win? Granted, Garnett seems to get up for the Minnesota games, but he gets up for pretty much every game.

I would of course love for the Celtics to hold off the Sixers so they could get homecourt in the first round and have a shot to play two postseason rounds. But I'm not hoping for anything more than that. And their schedule is about to get very tough, IIRC, so even accomplishing that much is a real uphill battle.
   1831. Into the Void Posted: March 31, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4093904)
Kobe was 0 for 15 through 3 quarters and finished 3 for 21 against the smothering Hornets defense.
   1832. Tripon Posted: March 31, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4093920)
This is how Linsanity dies.
NEW YORK (AP)—The New York Knicks say Jeremy Lin is having left knee surgery and will miss six weeks, likely ending his amazing breakthrough season.

The team said Saturday the point guard had an MRI exam this week that revealed a small, chronic meniscus tear.

The Knicks will continue to turn to Baron Davis in place of Lin, the undrafted Harvard alum who became the starter in February and turned in a series of brilliant performances, kicking off a phenomenon that was called Linsanity.
   1833. nick swisher hygiene Posted: March 31, 2012 at 08:38 PM (#4093957)
1832--that just absolutely sucks.......

let's see: a couple upsets; Lin comes off the bench and plays himself into shape as the Knicks shock the Bulls; after the Knicks go down 0-2 in the Finals B-Diddy gets benched for Lin, who--

no.

####....................................................
   1834. steagles Posted: March 31, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4094008)
i am taking a huge breath right now. that game started so terribly, but for the first time since...probably the last time they played the hawks, they were able to pull themselves out of a self-inflicted tailspin and pull away in the 2nd half. hopefully they figured something out, but still, i'm not at all confident right now.

two things...
1,the sixers turned the ball over 7 times in the first quarter and then 4 times the rest of the game. they've actually been playing really loose with the ball, so again, hopefully they figured something out there.
2,there were two consecutive possessions where the sixers hit 3s after dumping the ball to elton brand in the post. they kind of ran the same two man game that orlando runs with dwight howard and ryan anderson, where dwight will wait for a double team to come so he can kick it out to ryan anderson for an open 3, only with the sixers it was elton brand kicking it out to jrue holiday and then andre iguodala. i really hope to see that more often, but i'm not exceedingly optimistic about it.


and for as compact as the schedule has been this season, the sixers are now in the middle of a stretch where they play just 4 games (2 B2Bs) in 10 days. i really, really hope they catch some kind of a second wind while they can, because they're gonna be on the road for a ton of games in april.


and one last little positive thing right now is that the next 6 celtics games are against miami, san antonio, chicago, indiana, philly, and miami. here's hoping the sixers can open up some space again.
   1835. PJ Martinez Posted: March 31, 2012 at 11:15 PM (#4094027)
I'm pulling for Ohio State, but they've gotten some fortunate whistles near the end here. Craft pulling the ball away looked like a reach-in, and I don't think Withey traveled.
   1836. hokieneer Posted: March 31, 2012 at 11:18 PM (#4094029)
tOSU fell apart over the last 6 min or so.
   1837. nick swisher hygiene Posted: March 31, 2012 at 11:22 PM (#4094033)
1835--though they got totally screwed on the key bogus 3rd foul call on Thomas.....
   1838. steagles Posted: March 31, 2012 at 11:22 PM (#4094034)
that was almost a real hell of a play by craft there. he caught kansas offguard, and the ball rebounded perfectly, but he was just a step too quick off the line and got hit with a lane violation.

   1839. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: March 31, 2012 at 11:26 PM (#4094037)
The full four years of the Tyshawn Taylor experience, captured in a stretch of about three seconds.
   1840. Zipperholes Posted: March 31, 2012 at 11:30 PM (#4094040)
1835--though they got totally screwed on the key bogus 3rd foul call on Thomas.....
How long did he sit for? He got his 4th foul with 11:30 left. He commits only 2.0 fouls per 40 minutes. There was no reason for him to sit long.
   1841. nick swisher hygiene Posted: March 31, 2012 at 11:43 PM (#4094048)
3rd with 17:34, comes back in at 12:27 and almost immediately picks up his 4th, comes back in iirc 4:09. so he plays 7 minutes of the second half....
   1842. Zipperholes Posted: March 31, 2012 at 11:50 PM (#4094050)
3rd with 17:34, comes back in at 12:27 and almost immediately picks up his 4th, comes back in iirc 4:09. so he plays 7 minutes of the second half....
That's stupid. I hate when coaches do that. It's the basketball equivalent of watching your bullpen blow your lead in the 7th and 8th innings because you saved your best reliever for the 9th.
   1843. smileyy Posted: April 01, 2012 at 12:22 AM (#4094063)
[1842] Yes and no. Players in foul trouble play markedly worse defense when they're on the floor:

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=615

OTOH, I would like to see players on the floor more, not on the bench at the whims of whistles, especially when so many of the calls were straight up *wrong* in tonight's game. I'd be up for a rethinking of penalties for fouls, and for excessive fouls.

I also hate that Kansas can deliberately foul when up by 3 to prevent a 3-pointer.
   1844. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 01, 2012 at 09:24 AM (#4094098)
Craft pulling the ball away looked like a reach-in, and I don't think Withey traveled.

The Withey one was close, but the Craft play was a great non-call and an amazing play. I'm shocked a foul wasn't called there, since it's usually an anticipation one. We were talking the other day about whether or not he's a pro; after thinking about it some, I see no reason why he can't have Chris Duhon's career.

---

Talking about schedule breaks - after the Bulls game in OKC today, they only play Boston on Wednesday until a game Saturday. Yes, that's 1 game in 5 days. That's some much needed rest and finally the rest of the league can catch up to the Bulls in games played.
   1845. madvillain Posted: April 01, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4094238)
Russell Westbrook is a clown. Showboating in a game his team should win 10 times out of 11.
   1846. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 01, 2012 at 02:49 PM (#4094242)
Uh...after that dunk he can celebrate all he wants. If he did that against my 8 month old he could still celebrate. Even still, I don't see anything excessive that he did today.
   1847. madvillain Posted: April 01, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4094247)
Uh...after that dunk he can celebrate all he wants. If he did that against my 8 month old he could still celebrate. Even still, I don't see anything excessive that he did today.


Act like you've been there before. It was a meaningless play. Westbrook can dunk, we get it.
   1848. baudib Posted: April 01, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4094256)
"Act like you've been there before" is a totally BS meme. We expect athletes to play every play like it's their last, play hard even in "meaningless" games but also to not show any emotion? It's pretty ridiculous.
   1849. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 01, 2012 at 03:38 PM (#4094267)
As is the idea that this was an easy game for the Thunder — ask the Heat or the Magic how they were without Rose. The Bulls were 7-2 without Rose and had held opponents to 86 per game over that stretch. OKC had 80 after 3 quarters. If Rose had played today, OKC's biggest lead would have been 16 instead of 30.
   1850. PJ Martinez Posted: April 01, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4094269)
Rondo is putting on a show in the early going against Miami.
   1851. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 01, 2012 at 05:28 PM (#4094310)
Rondo hasn't let up with the show. The Heat haven't really had an answer for the Boston starters all game.
   1852. PJ Martinez Posted: April 01, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4094311)
And there's the tripe double. 16 points, 14 assists, 10 boards with 8 and a half minutes to go. His league-leading fifth of the year.

(Of course, this is what some Celtics fans call "national TV Rondo.")
   1853. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 01, 2012 at 06:07 PM (#4094331)
Act like you've been there before. It was a meaningless play. Westbrook can dunk, we get it.


That was an elevator all the way to the top floor! To the penthouse!
   1854. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: April 01, 2012 at 07:46 PM (#4094377)
(Of course, this is what some Celtics fans call "national TV Rondo.")


Thing is, all of the playoffs are on national TV.
   1855. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 02, 2012 at 10:42 AM (#4094628)
Act like you've been there before. It was a meaningless play. Westbrook can dunk, we get it.

Ridiculous.

As is the idea that this was an easy game for the Thunder — ask the Heat or the Magic how they were without Rose. The Bulls were 7-2 without Rose and had held opponents to 86 per game over that stretch. OKC had 80 after 3 quarters. If Rose had played today, OKC's biggest lead would have been 16 instead of 30.

Trying to draw any conclusions or to imply anything about the quality of either team based on yesterday's game is pointless and would be inaccurate. The Bulls have also lost at home to the Nets and current Blazers without Rose; what does that tell us (they also barely beat the Raptors twice*)? The Bulls beating the Heat without Rose doesn't mean the Bulls will beat Miami with Rose, just as the Thunder absolutely destroying the Bulls without Rose doesn't mean they'd still beat the Bulls with Rose. Unless the rest of the Bulls are really on - be it 3pt shooting or offensive rebounding or whatever - they're going to struggle against most good teams with Rose out. In spite of their defensive struggles yesterday, the only Bulls player who showed up offensively was Korver. The Bulls pretty much stopped running their offense in the 2nd quarter because it wasn't working (and the Thunder interior defense is definitely a big part of why); they were lucky it was as close as it was at the half considering how poorly they were playing.

*And the Thunder lost to the Flip-era Wizards. Individual game results are virtually meaningless this year.

Talking about schedule breaks - after the Bulls game in OKC today, they only play Boston on Wednesday until a game Saturday. Yes, that's 1 game in 5 days. That's some much needed rest and finally the rest of the league can catch up to the Bulls in games played.

Somehow I completely forget about the Bulls/Rockets game tonight. Then the Bulls have 2 days off, play a hot Boston team Thursday, and have 2 more days off and play the Knicks Sunday. Ric Bucher is saying that Rose might play this week, possibly against Boston, but KC Johnson has this quote from Rose:

KCJHoop: DRose, on whether he will play again during regular season: "I think so. It’s up to me, so, yeah, I think I am." #Bulls


Doesn't sound to me like he's going to play this week.
   1856. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 02, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4094645)
I didn't realize the April thread had been posted.
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