Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, March 03, 2012

OT: NBA Monthly Thread, March 2012

I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the inevitable blacklash against Linsanity, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: Ryan Braun Urine, Players Being in the Best Shape of Their Lives, and what Eric Chavez thinks about the Moneyball movie.

Tripon Posted: March 03, 2012 at 07:39 AM | 1861 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 7 of 19 pages ‹ First  < 5 6 7 8 9 >  Last ›
   601. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4078901)
@JMcDonald_SAEN: After latest neck injury, TJ Ford says he is retiring. More to come.


---

From Hollinger's column. I'd do it. Not sure Milwaukee wants to shed Udrih's contract so badly that they'd give up Ilyasova, though I guess he's a FA after the year.


I don't understand why they'd be ok with moving him either. I mean, he said he'll sign for the most money. But shouldn't he be someone they should want to resign?
   602. The District Attorney Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4078902)
Chuck Klosterman suggests:
If a team trailing on the scoreboard is fouled, they have the option to (a) accept the free throws (assuming they are in the bonus), or (b) decline the penalty and take the ball out of bounds at the point of the infraction, or at midcourt (whichever location they prefer).
Meanwhile, Henry Abbott wants the international goaltending rules.
   603. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4078906)
This would have been a better tweet to use, I guess:

tj_ford It's official " I Retire from the NBA " as of today
   604. Jimmy P Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4078912)
I don't understand why they'd be ok with moving him either. I mean, he said he'll sign for the most money. But shouldn't he be someone they should want to resign?

Do they have the cap space? They have some pretty foolish contracts taking up salary. There's two other reasons I'd trade him now. First, even though we keep hearing it's a good free agent year, I just don't believe it. There's two prime players and then a bunch of guys that can give you 2 or 3 years. A guy like Ilyasova is ripe to be overpaid in that kind of market. Second, Ilyasova's said he's pretty much going for the money, including Europe. If a Euro team offers him a ton of money, your going to lose him for nothing. I guess I can see dumping him if you think he's gone. Not sure Beasley, Randolph, and a mid-round 1 are a great return, though. It's basically a 1 and then guys that no one else wants to coach.

Of course, I think I'd pay to watch Skiles try and coach a team with Captain Jack, Beasley, and Randolph.
   605. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4078914)
Ford's neck injury came from a pretty innocuous play; Baron Davis kind of ran into him going toward the offensive boards, but not incredibly hard. TJ's lucky; if his neck was structurally not able to withstand that, he could have been injured much worse down the road.
   606. Jimmy P Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4078915)
I can't believe there isn't any tourney talk at all here.
   607. AROM Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4078918)
2. Deron Williams isn't really that famous, relative to how good he is, and does not seem to be a Wade/Howard style self-promoter.


He's good but he's far from great. And the rest of the Nets is far inferior to the supporting cast Howard is working with in Orlando. Not that it means he won't want to play there, but if he's looking to contend for a championship any time soon he should pick somewhere else.
   608. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4078920)
Ford's neck injury came from a pretty innocuous play; Baron Davis kind of ran into him going toward the offensive boards, but not incredibly hard. TJ's lucky; if his neck was structurally not able to withstand that, he could have been injured much worse down the road.

Well, he already has a history of neck problems. So that sort of bump isn't innocuous to him.
   609. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4078922)
and does not seem to be a Wade/Howard style self-promoter.

FWIW, I think criticisms like this are sometimes overblown. In the case of those two guys, they are stars who the NBA specifically request corporate promoters to work with because they don't have tattoos and have relatively clean cut images.
   610. JJ1986 Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:30 PM (#4078924)
I can't believe there isn't any tourney talk at all here.


Would people be interested in a bracket competition on yahoo or espn?
   611. rr Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4078928)
FWIW, I think criticisms like this are sometimes overblown


Self-promoter has a negative connotation, but I didn't really mean it as a criticism. As we discussed before, some guys (Metta Artest, Melo, Wade, Dwight, Blake Griffin) seek outside opportunities/media face time/celeb interaction more than others do. It is not a good or a bad thing; it's just a thing. For example, Howard had a deal with ESPN The Magazine where he Tweeted where he was going to be and interacted with whoever from his Tweeps got there first. ESPN ran a cover story on it, and Howard was photographed at a karaoke bar, a park, etc, with his fans. That may have been at the "request" of the NBA I suppose, but Howard didn't have to do it. In the piece, Howard made a big deal about how he Tweets all the time and responds to his Tweeps.

I have read several things about Howard to the effect that "he wants to be the guy" etc. I think that is part of that package.
   612. rr Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:47 PM (#4078938)
He's good but he's far from great


I am not sure I agree here. "Great" is a subjective term, but Deron Williams is an extremely good player.

As far as the other observation, it was Simmons who said a couple of months ago that Howard should force his way to Chicago and the fact that he isn't shows that he (Howard) "cares about the wrong things."
   613. AROM Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4078943)
I have read several things about Howard to the effect that "he wants to be the guy" etc. I think that is part of that package.


76ers should be in on this. They have enough depth to 1) surround him with good players and 2) Have good players to offer Orlando. Yet they don't have a single player who can approach Howard in star power.

Like a great rebounding big man from the past, he could lead this team to the promised land.

Apologies to Steagles if this has already been covered, but these threads are too long and my memory too short to reference all the ideas that have been discussed in the past.
   614. AROM Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4078951)
As far as the other observation, it was Simmons who said a couple of months ago that Howard should force his way to Chicago and the fact that he isn't shows that he (Howard) "cares about the wrong things."


I'm not capable of the sort of reasoning that sees Howard wanting to play with Rose as a good thing and Lebron wanting to play with Wade as a bad thing.
   615. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4078961)
I'm not capable of the sort of reasoning that sees Howard wanting to play with Rose as a good thing and Lebron wanting to play with Wade as a bad thing.

It's SimmonsTown, Jake.
   616. JJ1986 Posted: March 12, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4078964)
I'm not capable of the sort of reasoning that sees Howard wanting to play with Rose as a good thing and Lebron wanting to play with Wade as a bad thing.


In a roundabout way, I think it's a compliment to LeBron. He's supposed to be good enough to win a title without any other stars, while no one expects Howard to be able to.
   617. AROM Posted: March 12, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4078969)
I am not sure I agree here. "Great" is a subjective term, but Deron Williams is an extremely good player.


Among point guards, I'd put him in the top 10 but not top 5.

Paul and Rose are better than he is. Not as sure, but I'd put Westbrook, Parker, and Nash ahead as well. I think I would prefer Rondo's all around game but not sure. Really depends on the rest of the team's makeup as to which strengths would fit better.
   618. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 12, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4078973)
76ers should be in on this. They have enough depth to 1) surround him with good players and 2) Have good players to offer Orlando. Yet they don't have a single player who can approach Howard in star power.

Like a great rebounding big man from the past, he could lead this team to the promised land.

Apologies to Steagles if this has already been covered, but these threads are too long and my memory too short to reference all the ideas that have been discussed in the past.
yeah, dwight howard to the sixers has definitely been discussed previously in this thread.

and i completely agree with you. they're already the #1 defensive team in the NBA, but if the sixers add dwight howard (the best post defender of his generation) to andre iguodala (arguably the best perimeter defender of his generation), the team just becomes a defensive juggernaut.


at the moment, i'm kind of content to just see where the jrue-turner-iguodala lineup can take the sixers this year, but i'm definitely salivating at the (implausible and unlikely) idea of howard in a sixers jersey.
   619. AROM Posted: March 12, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4078974)
In a roundabout way, I think it's a compliment to LeBron. He's supposed to be good enough to win a title without any other stars, while no one expects Howard to be able to.


If Lebron were that good he'd be the first.
   620. Chicago Joe Posted: March 12, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4078987)
Would people be interested in a bracket competition on yahoo or espn?


Aye. Anyone else think Harvard will be the 12 this year?
   621. Spivey Posted: March 12, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4078988)


If Lebron were that good he'd be the first.


Duncan his second title with no other star. There was a end-of-the-line Robinson, and a rookie Ginobili who wasn't getting very many minutes. Tony Parker was getting benched in the playoffs for points for Speedy Claxton.
   622. Jimmy P Posted: March 12, 2012 at 02:31 PM (#4079008)
Duncan his second title with no other star. There was a end-of-the-line Robinson, and a rookie Ginobili who wasn't getting very many minutes. Tony Parker was getting benched in the playoffs for points for Speedy Claxton.


I believe you are forgetting Captain Jack.

Parker may have been getting benched, but he still averaged the 2nd most minutes in the playoffs for them.
   623. rr Posted: March 12, 2012 at 03:13 PM (#4079047)
Robinson's PER wasn't so hot (17.7) but here are ORTGS/DRTGS for the 2003 Playoffs:

DUNCAN 116/92
ROBINSON 116/94

Robinson only played about 22 MPG, however.

The 2003 Spurs' run was similar to the 2011 Mavericks in some ways. Here are Tyson Chandler's ORTG/DRTG and WS/48 for the playoffs, compared to Dirk's:

NOWITZKI 118/105 .213
CHANDLER 131/102 .218

Duncan's playoff PER that year was a phenomenal 28.4.
   624. madvillain Posted: March 12, 2012 at 03:51 PM (#4079098)
Ken Berger (decent source IMO) reported yesterday that Howard is blocking a trade to the Bulls as he won't commit to signing an extension with Chicago.

I've written a bit about Howard here before, and this just confirms my thoughts on him: he's a superstar, but he's not a leader and off court priorities rank at least as high as winning for him. In Brooklyn it would be his team, even though Deron is really good, he's not Howard good. In LA, he'd be taking the torch from Kobe, no matter if the team wouldn't be much better than his Magic bunch -- he'd be king of Lakerdom.

In Dallas, again, he'd be taking the torch from Dirk, who already won a title, so he'd have little pressure.

But Chicago? Chicago is Rose's team. He's not clearly better than Rose like he would be with Deron, and of course Rose is the hometown hero.

Nevermind that a Rose and Howard based team, coached by Thibs, would instantly contend with the Heat and would probably win 2 or so titles before either of them hits 32.

Oh well, go be happy, Dwight.
   625. It's a shame about Athletic Supporter Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:03 PM (#4079109)
Much like Kobe I think that psychoanalyzing Howard for this is a little over the top. Any of the following could be true:

-- Howard wants "his own" team
-- Howard dislikes Chicago as a city
-- Howard wants to play somewhere glamorous (LA or NY)
-- Howard dislikes Rose (obviously buddy-buddy in public for PR reasons including adidas)
-- Howard dislikes Thibodeau
-- Howard dislikes the Bulls' uniforms
-- Howard dislikes Reinsdorf
-- Howard has little confidence in the Bulls' front office
-- Howard dislikes Chicago fans
-- Howard's pastor has dissuaded him from playing in Chicago
-- Howard doesn't think he's a good basketball fit with Rose

I think one thing that is clear about Howard is that he doesn't bash anyone in public, pretty much ever. If he had any of the above objections I doubt he'd vocalize them (especially before FA actually happens). The guy is going to get paid $X to play basketball over the next several years, where X is both very large and essentially independent of where he plays (not totally -- state tax and the slight bump + extra year from Orlando). There could be any number of reasons he doesn't want to play there and from a money standpoint things are pretty equal? We just don't really have any evidence for or against any theory here, "sources" notwithstanding.
   626. madvillain Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:10 PM (#4079118)
There could be any number of reasons he doesn't want to play there and from a money standpoint things are pretty equal? We just don't really have any evidence for or against any theory here, "sources" notwithstanding.


I agree, it's pretty much just mental masturbation, but that's what message boards were invented for. Howard doesn't want to play in Chicago, for Bulls fans, it's fun to speculate why seeings how a) Chicago can offer the best package for Howard, and b) Rose and Howard would be the athletic answer to Wade and Lebron in a way those two could never have envisioned.
   627. hokieneer Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4079123)
I can't believe there isn't any tourney talk at all here.

I have yet to look at a bracket, as I was attempting to get tickets and plan a trip to watch the WVU/Gonzaga game. Well looks like I'm not the only one. Tickets to the 2nd session in Pittsburgh on Thursday (WVU/Gonzaga, OSU/15 seed) start at $190 on stubhub for upper level behind the basket. The same quality of seats for Session 1 (Cuse/16 seed, USM/KSU) are $41. I believe I'll be watching the tournament from my living room again this year.
   628. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4079125)
Ken Berger (decent source IMO) reported yesterday that Howard is blocking a trade to the Bulls as he won't commit to signing an extension with Chicago.

See post 578. And it wasn't so much "blocking a trade", as it was the same not really interested and thus the Bulls aren't really interested.
   629. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:15 PM (#4079132)
KBergCBS: The Blazers and Clips are discussing a deal that would send Jamal Crawford to L.A. for Eric Bledsoe and Ryan Gomes, sources say.


   630. madvillain Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4079141)
See post 578. And it wasn't so much "blocking a trade", as it was the same not really interested and thus the Bulls aren't really interested.


Cool, this thread moves fast at times, missed that one.

A "source" on the Bulls RealGM board, (he's been right probably on 10% of his rumors) is claiming the Bulls and Celtics are heavy in trade talks centering around Garnett and Pierce for some combo of Boozer / Deng / Asik / Filler.

Now that would be a \"####### eh" trade.
   631. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4079142)
deleted
   632. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4079143)
A "source" on the Bulls RealGM board, (he's been right probably on 10% of his rumors) is claiming the Bulls and Celtics are heavy in trade talks centering around Garnett and Pierce for some combo of Boozer / Deng / Asik / Filler.

My head has exploded.
   633. Jimmy P Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:37 PM (#4079167)
KBergCBS: The Blazers and Clips are discussing a deal that would send Jamal Crawford to L.A. for Eric Bledsoe and Ryan Gomes, sources say.


Oooo, another wing player and another young point guard for Nate to bench and #### on.
   634. andrewberg Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4079168)
A "source" on the Bulls RealGM board, (he's been right probably on 10% of his rumors) is claiming the Bulls and Celtics are heavy in trade talks centering around Garnett and Pierce for some combo of Boozer / Deng / Asik / Filler.


Holy moly. That trade is too big and too fundamentally jarring for me to have any idea if it is a good idea for either side. I guess Boston gets a lot younger and can amnesty Boozer after the year, and Chicago has a pretty tough and battle tested starting five to trot out against the Heat. I have to say, I kind of like the Rose-Hamilton-Pierce-Garnett-Noah crunch time lineup against Chalmers-Wade-James-Bosh-Anthony.
   635. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4079169)
KBergCBS: The Blazers and Clips are discussing a deal that would send Jamal Crawford to L.A. for Eric Bledsoe and Ryan Gomes, sources say.
That'd be a great trade for both teams. Portland is limited by Felton; Bledsoe allows Felton to get moved, and Bledsoe could develop into something really good for them. The Clips need a true 2, and Crawford allows them to get Randy Foye the hell out of the starting lineup. Win-win.
   636. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4079176)
I guess Boston gets a lot younger and can amnesty Boozer after the year

They cannot. A traded player can not be amnestied.

I have to say, I kind of like the Rose-Hamilton-Pierce-Garnett-Noah crunch time lineup against Chalmers-Wade-James-Bosh-Anthony.

How much do KG and PP have left*? That's an old team all of a sudden, even if it might be better this year than the current Bulls team.

*On a side note, I wouldn't have a problem falling back in like with KG, but it would take some time for me to warm to Pierce.
   637. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4079183)
The Knicks should also be trying to sell high on Jeremy Lin, but that assumes an intelligence that isn't there. If they're going to build around Melo -- and it looks like they have no choice -- everybody else is going to have to be a really good defender and not need the ball in their hands, and that's not Jeremy Lin.
   638. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4079185)
TJ Ford on his retirement:

It wasn’t until Wednesday night, when he found himself face down on the AT&T Center court after taking an otherwise non-descript blow to his upper back, that Ford finally saw the rest of his life clearly for the first time.

It was then he decided it was time to walk away, while he still could walk at all.

“That’s not the first time I’ve laid down on the court and not been able to move at my will,” Ford, 28, said Monday morning, announcing his retirement after Spurs shootaround. “I thought I needed to get out while I still had a chance.”


“I played the last five years with doctor’s orders not to play,” Ford said. “I still defeated the odds.”


Geez.
   639. Jimmy P Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4079191)
The Knicks should also be trying to sell high on Jeremy Lin, but that assumes an intelligence that isn't there.

If they were to trade Lin, I pity their PR staff.
   640. andrewberg Posted: March 12, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4079202)
That'd be a great trade for both teams. Portland is limited by Felton; Bledsoe allows Felton to get moved, and Bledsoe could develop into something really good for them. The Clips need a true 2, and Crawford allows them to get Randy Foye the hell out of the starting lineup. Win-win.


I agree, but I still think the Clippers aren't going to contend until they have one really good wing defender, and they're not filling that spot if they give up their best trade chip for Jamal Crawfor_.

How much do KG and PP have left*? That's an old team all of a sudden, even if it might be better this year than the current Bulls team.


Doesn't need to be too much. I think Pierce has something left because he does a lot of things that don't require a ton of athleticism. He has thrived in Boston where he is not the full-time playmaker, and Chicago would allow him to do the same things. He would also be the part-time offensive leader Chicago wanted Boozer (and even Rip) to be. Plus, losing Deng sucks because you need someone to guard Lebron to make it out of the east, but Pierce does well enough against Lebron to at least make him work, and it's not like anyone is just going to shut him out.

As for KG, I think he would be such a monumental improvement defensively over Boozer with at least as many games played, so some small drop offensively would be fine, and that might not even happen. Either way, I suppose he leaves after the year and Gibson takes that spot.
   641. jmurph Posted: March 12, 2012 at 05:03 PM (#4079203)
*On a side note, I wouldn't have a problem falling back in like with KG, but it would take some time for me to warm to Pierce.


I'm a lifelong Celtics fan and I'm still working on it.

In all honesty, I fully appreciate his effectiveness and his contributions to the franchise, I've just never dug his style of play.
   642. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: March 12, 2012 at 05:23 PM (#4079227)
The Knicks should also be trying to sell high on Jeremy Lin, but that assumes an intelligence that isn't there.
John Hollinger got this question in last week's chat, what the chances were that the Knicks trade Lin while he has value. His answer:
None. They'll be able to keep him fairly inexpensively as an Early Bird free agent under the Gilbert Arenas rule. And with all that money tied up in the frontcourt, even New York needs one or two bargain players.
   643. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 12, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4079242)
From RealGM:

The Magic, Warriors and Hornets are in discussions on a three-team trade, two league sources confirmed.

Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins and Dorell Wright would be sent by the Warriors to the Magic.

Ryan Anderson, J.J. Redick, Hedo Turkoglu and Quentin Richardson would be the main outgoing pieces from Orlando.

The Hornets' exact involvement is unclear, but believed to be centered around Chris Kaman.

No trade is imminent but talks are ongoing say sources.


It's hard to know what this time of year is really being discussed, and what's just talk. But it is fun to try and imagine the reconstituted teams.
   644. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 12, 2012 at 06:18 PM (#4079270)
It's hard to know what this time of year is really being discussed, and what's just talk. But it is fun to try and imagine the reconstituted teams.
any trade that includes ryan anderson leaving orlando is going to be a bad one for orlando.

   645. andrewberg Posted: March 12, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4079278)
I don't get it. I assume the idea is that the Magic get Ellis and the Warriors get Anderson and Kaman, but where does that leave Orlando?

Or is the idea that GS gets Kaman and Redick with Anderson going to New Orleans? That actually makes sense for the Hornets, but that seems like a pretty weak return for Ellis.
   646. JJ1986 Posted: March 12, 2012 at 06:43 PM (#4079282)
Aye. Anyone else think Harvard will be the 12 this year?


I set one up on Yahoo. League ID: 144026. Password: mutombo.
   647. Jimmy P Posted: March 12, 2012 at 06:45 PM (#4079283)
any trade that includes ryan anderson leaving orlando is going to be a bad one for orlando.


Not if they think Howard's leaving. I think Anderson's value drops considerably without Howard there.
   648. rr Posted: March 12, 2012 at 07:31 PM (#4079315)
I don't get it. I assume the idea is that the Magic get Ellis and the Warriors get Anderson and Kaman, but where does that leave Orlando?


Broussard and Stein say this won't work anyway, for a simple reason: DeVos wants Ellis so he can keep Howard, and Lacob only wants to give up Ellis if he can get Howard. People may sneer at Broussard/Stein, but that actually makes sense to me, based on what those two orgs reportedly seem to think about Ellis.

Stein says that GS is trying to get Bogut.

As one would guess, their report is that Otis Smith is doing anything and everything to try to "placate" Howard by making a big add, but if Smith can't do it, ORL may have to go ahead and trade Howard on Thursday. DeVos, however, seems to think his "relationship" with Howard will eventually lead Howard to stay.

Conceding that this is all spec and how knows who the "sources" are, this sounds like exactly what Gilbert believed about James. Gilbert of course did the right thing by keeping James--the Cavs were seen as title faves. It is a little different with DeVos and Howard.

   649. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 12, 2012 at 08:14 PM (#4079339)
Not if they think Howard's leaving. I think Anderson's value drops considerably without Howard there.
anderson is really good. not really good at what he does, not really good playing next to dwight howard. there's no qualifier needed, he's a hell of a player on his own. he has a lot of dirk in him.


nueva york at los bulls is on ESPN right now. i think i'm rooting for chicago here.
   650. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: March 12, 2012 at 08:28 PM (#4079347)
anderson is really good. not really good at what he does, not really good playing next to dwight howard. there's no qualifier needed, he's a hell of a player on his own. he has a lot of dirk in him.
Say what? I like Anderson a lot, but he's the better Matt Bonner, which makes him a heckuva nice player. He's got nothing on Dirk.
   651. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 12, 2012 at 08:52 PM (#4079361)
Say what? I like Anderson a lot, but he's the better Matt Bonner, which makes him a heckuva nice player. He's got nothing on Dirk.
i think you might want to take a look at how they compare to this point in their careers. just looking at their age 23 seasons (which was/is both players' 4th season), dirk shot .48/.40/.85 with a 14.5 total rebounding rate. he averaged 22 and 9 per 36 minutes with a 25.5 usage.

this year, anderson is shooting .43/.42/.87 with a 14.1 TRR, and is averaging 18 and 9 per 36 minutes with a 21.5 usage.

it's also worth noting that while only 1 in every 4 of dirk's made FGs were from beyond the arc, anderson is at a better than 1:1 rate.


and i'm not saying that anderson is going to be as good as dirk was at his peak, i'm just saying that he's having a hell of a year, is a hell of a player, and among 6'10 forwards that shoot 40% from beyond the arc, anderson is a lot closer to nowitzky than he is to bonner or novak.
   652. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 12, 2012 at 09:03 PM (#4079366)
So...I had no idea Jimmy Butler was a black guy until just now.
   653. AROM Posted: March 12, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4079373)
Is Anderson able to create his own shot like Dirk or is he getting those shots from ball movement and double teams?
   654. JJ1986 Posted: March 12, 2012 at 09:15 PM (#4079374)
Anderson never gets double covered and he hangs out behind the 3-point line. More than half of his attempts are from back there. That was never Dirk's game.
   655. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: March 12, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4079377)
The officating seens to be a bit lacking in the first half in chicago. Though i may be biased
   656. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 12, 2012 at 09:28 PM (#4079384)
I'm with STEAGLES - Anderson's playing All-Star caliber ball this year. As much as I like Bonner, he's never been that good.
   657. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: March 12, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4079393)
And the trend continues!
   658. rr Posted: March 12, 2012 at 10:06 PM (#4079396)
ESPN's Marc Stein

Why Stern may be against a Kaman buyout

"Only one problem there for longtime Kaman fan Pat Riley. Sources say that the league-owned Hornets remain adamantly against buying Kaman out if they can't trade the 7-footer and that Kaman has been warned not to expect a buyout if no trade is consummated. Teams issue those threats all the time, of course, only to grant the buyout in the end. Remember, however, that we're talking about the league-owned Hornets here. The sense is that NBA commissioner David Stern, who will continue to serve as New Orleans' ultimate decision-maker until the team is sold, would have no interest in setting Kaman free to join the contender of his choosing. If he did, with Eric Gordon still sidelined after knee surgery, Al-Farouq Aminu would be the only player New Orleans received in the Chris Paul trade who's actually playing for the Hornets."
   659. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 12, 2012 at 11:14 PM (#4079420)
In Ivy League news... big ups to Jeff Foote for being the first guy from Cornell in the league in 61 years (10 day deal with the Hornets). (Lin was the first Harvard guy in 57 years.)

Here's my pick for the Ivy League All-Star team (guys since '60):
Lineup: F/C Rudy LaRusso (Dartmouth), F Jim McMillan (Columbia), F/G Bill Bradley (Princeton), G/F Geoff Petrie (Princeton), G Brian Taylor (Princeton)
Bench: C Chris Dudley (Yale), F/C John Hummer (Princeton), C Dave Newmark (Columbia), F Corky Calhoun (Penn), G Armond Hill (Princeton), G Matt Maloney (Penn), G Dave Wohl (Penn)

Kind of a Don Nelson team - starts four wings and a power forward. LaRusso made 4 All-Star teams and once finished eighth in the league in scoring - but was mainly a defender/enforcer at the four spot. McMillan* was an efficient shooting three and somewhat similar to the other starting forward, Bradley. Bill never had a league average season by PER standards, but did make an All-Star team and was very famous. Petrie's maybe the best of the bunch. The original Trailblazer (I didn't know that) - OregonLive.com named him the 4th best Blazer of all time (I'm pretty sure that's too high) and he averaged 24.x points per game in three of his first four seasons, making two A-S teams. Knee injuries did him in**. Taylor's out of position (he's a combo guard, much more a two) but a tough defender and sweet shooter. Made 2 ABA All-Star teams but best season was arguably his first post-merger. Like LaRusso, was an 2nd team All-NBA defender.

On the bench, Dudley is a strong defender, shot blocker, and rebounder at center*** - but foul prone and a horrendous shooter. Hummer's an adequate backup big. Hill (and, to a lesser extent) Maloney can help out with distribution and pg play.

* Whose rent, I hear, is too damn high.
** Only played 6 seasons and, yes, this is the exec. He was traded to Atlanta, for whom he never played, for Mo Lucas, O-Live's #5 Blazer of all time.
*** 10th all time in rebounding percentage (only tracked since '70).
   660. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 12, 2012 at 11:22 PM (#4079423)
nueva york at los bulls is on ESPN right now. i think i'm rooting for chicago here.
so far, so good.

a boston loss in game 2 would make this a pretty solid night.



Anderson never gets double covered and he hangs out behind the 3-point line. More than half of his attempts are from back there. That was never Dirk's game.
i'm not saying he's a clone, i'm not saying he's as good as dirk at his peak, i'm just saying that anderson is really freaking good, and that, like dirk, he can get his shot off against anyone.


   661. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: March 12, 2012 at 11:26 PM (#4079424)
Anderson never gets double covered and he hangs out behind the 3-point line. More than half of his attempts are from back there. That was never Dirk's game.
Exactly. You can give Dirk the ball anywhere in the half-court and he can score. Anderson has to wait for someone to get him the ball when he's open. Dirk is The Guy. Anderson is the guy you get to compliment The Guy. Anderson's a terrific piece and his specific strengths are a perfect match to Howard's strengths, but it's nuts to say that Anderson is comparable to Dirk. He's not.
   662. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 12, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4079427)
this game is unwatchable. i know it's the celtics, but even by their standards, this is bad.
   663. madvillain Posted: March 12, 2012 at 11:40 PM (#4079430)
Chicago just overwhelmed the Knicks on the glass and that was the difference. Rose had his first monster dunk in about 2 months that put Chicago up 7 with under six left. I think he's fully healthy and it showed in the 2nd half.

Knicks need a new coach and more athleticism all over the court. Chicago was beating them to every lose ball and at least twice Chicago players straight out hustled a Knick to the ball.

Amare with only 3 boards is an obvious target.


_______

Steagles you just jumped the shark man, Anderson is a spot up shooter that also isn't aa complete stiff. Comparing him to dirk is like comparing kyle korver to Larry Bird.
   664. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 12, 2012 at 11:45 PM (#4079431)
I get what you're saying, Hombre, but the comp to Bonner is kind of insulting - and STEAGLES said "he has a lot of dirk in him," which is less strong of a statement than it's being made out to be.

Dirk at 23: PER 24.1, WS/48: .222, simple rating: unavailable (was +11.2 last year)
Anderson at 23: PER 22.3, WS/48: .249, simple rating +11.6
Bonner at 23: (not in league)
Bonner at 28, best season: PER: 15.0, WS/48: .169, +2.7

That said... Orlando has not done well this year with Howard out and Anderson in. Part of that is having Davis at center (Davis kind of sucks and is a bad choice to match w/ RA) - part of it is how well the games of DH and Anderson complement each other. (Also, Anderson minus Howard was reasonably effective last year ... some of what's going on now is also a fluke).

In any event, you don't move him in a deal for Ellis - Anderson is already a better player by some margin.

[As for comps, I'm thinking a wealthy man's Troy Murphy.]
   665. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 12, 2012 at 11:49 PM (#4079435)
Anderson is 7th in the league in offensive rebound percentage and leads the league in 3pm and 3pa, shooting 41.8% from beyond the arc (as opposed to Korver who is efficient, but not a volume guy). Anderson also never turns the ball over (2nd in the league in TO%, which is partly a function of his role but other guys still are turning it over more often). Accordingly, he's 3rd in WS/48. And his defense appears to have improved.

He is just about as good as this kind of player could possibly be. (This is reminiscent of the Harden stuff.)
   666. madvillain Posted: March 12, 2012 at 11:56 PM (#4079436)
He is just about as good as this kind of player could possibly be.


His simple rating is 11.6, which confirms what ws/48 is saying using on court / off court numbers as well.

He's a good player, certainly better than Korver in my example, but he's not a volume scorer or playmaker or elite defensive presense inside:

so he's not a superstar, but a team could win a title with him as their 3rd best player. Sorta like Luol Deng or Lamar Odom type impact.
   667. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:04 AM (#4079438)
If I fully trusted that 11.5, he'd be a legit #1 on a team. But, I don't. :)

He's a good player, certainly better than Korver in my example, but he's not a volume scorer or playmaker or elite defensive presence inside:
I don't think we know the limits of his scoring ability yet - he's only 23 and already averages over a point every other minute. And, if you take him away from Howard, you'll see a bump up in his defensive board numbers (D boards being somewhat discretionary) - he was a fine rebounder at Cal. Certainly not a playmaker or defensive presence, no.

I think he can be a 20-9-2, with very good shooting/turnover numbers. Kind of like a tougher, but less offensively diverse Kiki Vandeweghe (and with lower usage than Kiki). Not sure if that's a #2 or #3 guy on a title winner.
   668. tshipman Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:27 AM (#4079448)
Anderson is a good example (in my mind) of a guy who is overrated due to his discretionary skills.

Anderson shoots almost 42% from 3p. That is really, really good! He only shoots 44% or so from 2p range, though. That is really bad for a PF! He takes 56% of his shots from 3p, so it isn't as much of an issue. Imagine if he took a third of his shots from 3. Or a quarter.

What does a primary option forward who shoots a really good percentage from 3p do? Nowitzki takes 19% of his shots from 3p from his career--around 15-17% during his peak from 2005/06-06/07. It's really hard for a primary option on offense to take that many shots from 3p.

How many teams could Ryan Anderson take 7 3p per game on with success? The Magic, obviously. Probably The Heat, the Lakers (if Gasol wasn't there), the Bulls (if Boozer wasn't), the Suns (?), the Thunder maybe, the Nets (?), and maaaaybe Minnesota (if Love could play the 5).


If Ryan Anderson were on the Milwaukee Bucks he'd be a 7th or 8th man.
   669. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:47 AM (#4079452)
So, it's bad that he's taking one of the highest % plays on the court - and succeeding? He's 9th in the league in TS% - the low 2pt percentage speaks to where he'll have difficulty expanding his game, not as to how effective he is now.

If Anderson were on the Bucks, he'd've been starting at the four all year and Ilyasova (another underrated stretch four) wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to be a stud the last few weeks.
   670. madvillain Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:49 AM (#4079454)
If Ryan Anderson were on the Milwaukee Bucks he'd be a 7th or 8th man.


I think there is some truth to this, but Anderson is an excellent rebounder for a perimeter oriented big man. So yea Howard's prescense gets him a reprieve from any sort of offense other than stand outside and take advantage of the double team, but his rebounding is good enough to where even if he had to adjust his game inside the rim a bit more (with a dropoff in efficiency) he'd still be a solid starter.

I was convinced he was over-rated last year and now I'm almost convinced he's under-rated. Dunno, beauty of the nba in the complexity of how players benefit (or don't) from who they play with.
   671. madvillain Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:53 AM (#4079458)
The guy the Bulls have stashed at Real Madrid, Mirotic, is a Ryan Anderson clone. An absolute steal for Chicago that helps make probably losing Gibson for nothing this summer quite a bit more palatable.
   672. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:56 AM (#4079459)
I like Mirotic as well (though I don't think he's in Anderson's league (has more to do w/ RA, than NM)). Is he coming over next year?
edit: buyout is ~2 million euros, signed thru 2015-16.
   673. madvillain Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:05 AM (#4079460)
Is he coming over next year?


He's indicated in the Spanish press that he'd like to come over soon, but the Bulls can't pay him enough until at least 2014-15 season to make it worth his while. I guess if he really wants to come over he will, but the over under is on 2014 and it might even be until 2015-16 that he comes over.

   674. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:20 AM (#4079464)
looks like allen tweaked his knee in the last minute here.
   675. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:37 AM (#4079466)
just a thought here, but since orlando seems pretty intent on shedding turkoglu at the same time they make a decision about howard, does anyone else think he'd be a really smart add for washington? he's got a lot of miles on him, he's over the hill, and his contract is terrible, but it seems like he'd solve a lot of the issues that washington has. i mean, if you think about it

he's been a winner, he's got a high basketball IQ, and he'd be a steady veteran presence on a team that's sorely lacking in all 3.

he's a shooter. not as good of one as he used to be, but he's still an effective floor spreader.

he's a good secondary ballhandler, and he'd be able to take some pressure off of wall when the game starts to get away.


and even though he's really lacking in athleticism, washington has a ton of athletes they could put around him. mcgee, booker, singleton, young, wall, crawford, vesely, seraphin--turkoglu is basically the polar opposite of all of them.


i know the guy's never really been all that great, and i know that he's way past the point where he can be the leader of a contending team, but as a guy who can transition washington from losing to winning, i think, if motivated, he'd actually be a hell of a fit.
   676. kpelton Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:42 AM (#4079468)
   677. madvillain Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:04 AM (#4079473)
Sweet link Kevin. So Anderson doesn't seemingly benefit from Howard that much, and instead becomes more aggressive when he's off the court.

This is a complicated man, this Ryan Anderson.
   678. andrewberg Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:06 AM (#4079474)
It seems like the argument against Anderson is that what he's doing seems flunky. First, I don't think it is- he's utilizing the space Howard creates in a different but probably more effective way than Rashard Lewis did and maximizing the opportunity. Second, even if it is a fluke, it doesn't diminish the value he has put up. I guess you could say he's overrated for trade purposes, but that's a different point than saying he's not that good.
   679. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:17 AM (#4079478)
http://www.nba.com/statscube/player-vs-player.html#Dwight-Howard-vs-Ryan-Anderson|2730,201583;year=201112;season=r
that's pretty awesome.

if i had to take a guess at that, i'd say anderson's increased usage with howard off the court is the result of him replacing howard as the lead man in orlando's pick and roll. his 3PAs with and without howard on court are steady, but he attempts 4 more 2-pointers (plus an extra FT) per 36 when howard is off the court. additionally, a ton of anderson's shots at the rim occur with howard off the court.

i'd also say that the volume of corner 3s that he hits with howard on the court is the result of him being the third man in orlando's pick and roll.


that's really a cool tool, though.
\
   680. JJ1986 Posted: March 13, 2012 at 10:54 AM (#4079639)
Yahoo March Madness bracket challenge

League ID: 144026
Password: mutombo
   681. tshipman Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:04 AM (#4079650)
I guess you could say he's overrated for trade purposes, but that's a different point than saying he's not that good.


Doesn't this get to what we talk about when we talk about "good"?

At some level or another, good is a judgment on the player. LeBron is a good player. He would succeed in any offense, any defense. Some guys have conditional success. They succeed more



Sweet link Kevin. So Anderson doesn't seemingly benefit from Howard that much, and instead becomes more aggressive when he's off the court.


That's not what that link said to me. To me, it demonstrates that he wouldn't be as efficient without Howard. First of all, there are extremely small sample sizes--only 308 minutes (less than 10 games). He also only takes a third of his shots from 3p with Howard Off, versus over half in total.
   682. Jimmy P Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:27 AM (#4079676)
So Anderson doesn't seemingly benefit from Howard that much, and instead becomes more aggressive when he's off the court

Well, I'm not sure I'd go that far. First, he's played 3 times as many minutes with Howard on the court. His 3 point percentage does drop by 4% without Dwight, so he's probably seeing more D. Second, who's he playing against? I know that if I'm playing the Magic and Dwight leaves the game, I probably take my big man defender out so he doesn't get ticky-tack fouls on Ryan Anderson. I want all my big man fouls on Dwight and his 50% free throws.

I didn't say Anderson wasn't good. I said he loses some value without Dwight. He's not an All-Star, and I don't even think he'd be in the discussion without Howard. Rashard Lewis isn't too bad of a comp, probably (haven't actually looked).
   683. andrewberg Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:42 AM (#4079698)
At some level or another, good is a judgment on the player. LeBron is a good player. He would succeed in any offense, any defense. Some guys have conditional success. They succeed more


I feel like even in that statement, there are two different versions of "good." There's the "empirical good," where a player is judged only by his past accomplishments no matter how he got there. Bill Russell is one of the empirically best players of all time because he won like crazy regardless of how he did it. A pitcher with an ERA a run lower than his FIP is empirically good. There's also "platonically good," where a player is judged by whether we could hypothesize his quality in the abstract. Lebron is platonically good because he could dominate in any system. The fact that he has not won a title* has no effect on whether he conforms to the quidity of goodness. Javier Vazquez embodies the platonically good pitcher.


*Using championships as a barometer is probably too metaphysical. It might be better to look at a guy who won an MVP award in a season where his FG% was way above his true talent level or something along those lines.
   684. Jimmy P Posted: March 13, 2012 at 11:57 AM (#4079710)
So, I heard on ESPN Radio this morning that Bucher is reporting that the Magic have told Dwight they'll get him help at the deadline AND he gets to decide after the season if Otis Smith and SVG stay.

   685. jmurph Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4079716)
So, I heard on ESPN Radio this morning that Bucher is reporting that the Magic have told Dwight they'll get him help at the deadline AND he gets to decide after the season if Otis Smith and SVG stay.


Well then Stan has to resign, immediately. That's shameful, if true.
   686. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4079721)
If Ryan Anderson were on the Milwaukee Bucks he'd be a 7th or 8th man.

Even with your further clarification, this is just ridiculous. He's what, the 2nd best player on Orlando, but would be the 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench for a team 10 games worse? Yes, a lot of the difference between Orlando and Milwaukee is Howard, but come on.

I will say, between this and the Harden discussion, you seem to have a high bar for young players (not a criticism, just an observation).

He's a good player, certainly better than Korver in my example, but he's not a volume scorer or playmaker or elite defensive presense inside:

There's no explanation for Korver being included in this discussion, except for the only compare white guys to white guys rule.

The guy the Bulls have stashed at Real Madrid, Mirotic, is a Ryan Anderson clone. An absolute steal for Chicago that helps make probably losing Gibson for nothing this summer quite a bit more palatable.

Depending on how the playoffs shake out, I could see the Bulls bringing him back and jettisoning Boozer. If they lose to the Heat again in the ECF (or god forbid, to someone else before then), I foresee some big changes. A Gibson/Mirotic platoon would be a great fit at PF next to Howard...crap, here I go again.

---

I went to the Bulls/Knicks game last night. It really is impressive to watch Chandler play defense in person. He really is the entire Knicks' defense. He was tasked with shutting down Boozer and the entire lane. Play after play it looked like there was a wide open lane to the bucket for Rose, but his recovery and help is so quick - and always to the right spot. Rose played a bit out of control last night, and the officiating clearly rattled him (that dunk was the angriest dunk I've ever seen out of him). One play, he had a shot blocked right back to him; he caught it, started complaining, clearly traveled, then passed the ball to the top of the key and was out of the rest of the play. He is complaining more lately, and I understand the frustration - he gets hammered so much, and so much of it is uncalled - but I don't exactly agree with the sentiment behind this quote:

"I gotta be the only superstar in the league that's going through what I'm going through right now," Rose said. "But I can't say too much about it."


Being a superstar shouldn't matter; I know about superstar calls and whatnot, but he shouldn't really expect special treatment. He does get the benefit of the doubt on occasion, but if he got a foul called every time he's touched he'd be shooting 20 FTs a game.
   687. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4079733)
So...I had no idea Jimmy Butler was a black guy until just now.

That means you probably haven't seen this story. I'm rooting for him, it was good to see him take advantage of his PT last night and the crowd loved it.
   688. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4079736)
I meant to put this in the post about Rose's dunk:

*Rose's quote on the dunk:

"I don't usually dunk it," he openly said about it. "It takes me a lot to dunk. I guess I was mad. I'd have to see it to go through it again to tell you how I felt. After that, I don't know what was going on. I probably blacked out a bit. I was just mad I wasn't getting any calls."


The idea of blacking out when dunking like that is fun.
   689. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:14 PM (#4079838)
Latest Howard stuff.

When he leaves as a FA, the Magic are going to be in a world of hurt.
   690. madvillain Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4079857)
The idea of blacking out when dunking like that is fun.


Rose hadn't dunked like that since the Miami playoffs. He was getting hacked all night with no calls. I'm glad he's started to become more vocal with the officials. As a wise man once said (I believe it was Brandon Roy): "I used to not complain, then I saw all the guys that get the most calls are the biggest whiners, so I changed up".
   691. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4079861)
Re: Rose no calls

FWIW, as a Knicks..........................................fan.........................., I thought the officiating as a whole was terrible.
   692. Jimmy P Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4079865)
When he leaves as a FA, the Magic are going to be in a world of hurt.


What I don't get is why Golden St doesn't want to do it. They still think they have a chance at Howard.

I think they need to decide which of their guards they're keeping and move on. They've been stuck in this Curry-Ellis-other guards thing for years. Just move some of the guys. It's not like they're going to get much worse if they do, and if they do, that's probably better for them long term.
   693. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:30 PM (#4079866)
I'm not claiming that Anderson is an All-Star caliber player (I am agnostic here), but that he's been playing at an All-Star level this season... which isn't that far above what he'd done previously (on a per minute basis). Here's another metric - he's 21st in the league in basketball-value's 2 year adjusted +/- as well (as of last night), which attempts to control for Howard being on the team. (How well is debatable - if nothing else, it's kind of a wonky measure anyway.)
Additionally, I also think it's somewhat disingenuous to ignore that other teams try to put the players in optimal positions to succeed as well.

Anderson is, afaict, a rich man's Lewis* (IIRC, B-Pro lists both Lewis and Dirk in mentioning Anderson comparables). Rashard's career highs in PER is 20.7 and WS/48 is .160, both of which are topped by Anderson this year (Anderson's lowest WS/48 with Orlando is .161). More globally, Lewis lacked a peak year, but played at a high level for 8 seasons (ages 22-29: PER: 18.2, WS/48: .142). Anderson's over the last three years (his three years w/ ORL - ages 21-23) is a bit better...

PER Lewis 18.2, Anderson 19.9
WS/48 Lewis .142, Anderson .214
TS% Lewis 56.7, Anderson 58.7
EFG% Lewis 52.5, Anderson 55.0
Orb% Lewis 4.9, Anderson 11.3
Drb% Lewis 13.9, Anderson 16.5
Ast% Lewis 9.7, Anderson 6.2
Stl% Lewis 1.7, Anderson 1.3
To% Lewis 9.6, Anderson 8.1
Blk% Lewis 1.3, Anderson 1.4
Usg Lewis 22.5, Anderson 21.8
ORtg Lewis 114, Anderson 121
DRtg Lewis 107, Anderson 102
I give Anderson the edge in man-on defense, fwiw.

Anderson is, generally, a more extreme version of Lewis - more threes, less turnovers, less assists and steals, except that he's got a big edge in rebounding.

FWIW, Lewis did not appear to play any better with Orlando than he did with Seattle (though he did play differently. He's being better from two than Anderson suggests that Andferson could lose a little if he moved to mid-oughts Seattle).

* Oh, Lewis did play in 2 All-Star games, one with Seattle, one with Orlando.
   694. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 13, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4079903)
What I don't get is why Golden St doesn't want to do it. They still think they have a chance at Howard.

I think they need to decide which of their guards they're keeping and move on. They've been stuck in this Curry-Ellis-other guards thing for years. Just move some of the guys. It's not like they're going to get much worse if they do, and if they do, that's probably better for them long term.
from the article:


The Magic's attempt to put together a three-team deal that would've sent Ellis to Orlando and Andrew Bogut from Milwaukee to Golden State didn't pass muster with the Warriors' owner.
what exactly would orlando be giving up in this deal to make it worth them getting back ellis? as i've said, i think it'd be an awful decision for them to get rid of anderson, but beyond him, i don't really see them having anything of value to give up.
   695. Jimmy P Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4079922)
what exactly would orlando be giving up in this deal to make it worth them getting back ellis? as i've said, i think it'd be an awful decision for them to get rid of anderson, but beyond him, i don't really see them having anything of value to give up.


I'd assume they'd be sending things toward Milwaukee. I have no clue what, though.

If getting rid of Anderson enables you to keep Howard, then wave goodbye to Anderson.
   696. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4079927)
also, there's apparently a rumor of the sixers being in discussions with atlanta. the sixers would apparently give up nocioni and meeks and get back kirk hinrich and vlad radmanovic.


i...am not really a fan of this. hinrich is just having a really awful year, and i don't think he's a good enough defender to even replace jodie meeks.

and i like radmanovic, and i think he'd fit with the team (even if he'd have to get most of his minutes at SF, where he's not really athletic enough to adequately defend the position) but i think giving up meeks to get him would be a bit foolish.


also, i still think there's something they can do with nocioni's contract this offseason, since he has the team option, and if they trade him now, for this, that opportunity just goes *poof*.
   697. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4079929)
Sure. However, who here would be surprised if Orlando made a dumb in the abstract deal to make Howard happy, then lost him this offseason anyway?
So - is Howard the #2 player in the league? I think so. Who else is on the short list - Durant, maybe Paul...
   698. rr Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4079939)
Maxwn and I were talking Pau and perceptions the other day. Before each Lakers game, The KBros do the customary Q and A with the True Hoop blogger from the opposing squad. Here is what the Grizzlies' blogger had to say about Pau when asked what the Grizz need to do to win tonight against the Lakers:

3) Mo Speights needs to punch Pau in the mouth....figuratively speaking, of course. Everyone knows that he is averse to physical play and that you can get in his head that way.

   699. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4079941)
Hinrich's defense is normally pretty good - not sure about this year. Anyway, yes please - I like that deal for Atlanta. At his salary, Meeks is an asset for them - he's the only guy who'll be on their current contract next year.
(I've yet to watch a Hawks game this year.)
   700. rr Posted: March 13, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4079942)
Sure. However, who here would be surprised if Orlando made a dumb in the abstract deal to make Howard happy, then lost him this offseason anyway?


You mean like trading for Antawn Jamison?
Page 7 of 19 pages ‹ First  < 5 6 7 8 9 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Dock Ellis on Acid
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: Politics - December 2014: Baseball & Politics Collide in New Thriller
(5105 - 5:19pm, Dec 20)
Last: The Id of SugarBear Blanks

NewsblogThe 2015 HOF Ballot Collecting Gizmo!
(136 - 5:17pm, Dec 20)
Last: Win Big Stein's Money

NewsblogThe right — and wrong — way for Mets to get Tulowitzki | New York Post
(10 - 5:11pm, Dec 20)
Last: Win Big Stein's Money

NewsblogOT - College Football Bowl Spectacular (December 2014 - January 2015)
(104 - 5:08pm, Dec 20)
Last: Infinite Joost (Voxter)

NewsblogOT: NBC.news: Valve isn’t making one gaming console, but multiple ‘Steam machines’
(1370 - 4:47pm, Dec 20)
Last: Poster Nutbag

NewsblogTrading Justin Upton means the Braves are in full rebuilding mode | Mark Bradley blog
(89 - 4:45pm, Dec 20)
Last: Justin T steals bases with his bat

NewsblogGiants acquire McGehee to fill third-base spot
(3 - 4:38pm, Dec 20)
Last: Harveys Wallbangers

Hall of Merit2015 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(104 - 4:35pm, Dec 20)
Last: Bleed the Freak

NewsblogAngels, Red Sox discontinue pension plans for non-uniformed personnel - LA Times
(16 - 4:32pm, Dec 20)
Last: ellsbury my heart at wounded knee

NewsblogAmazin' Avenue - Cohen: Mets and Rockies discussing Troy Tulowitzki deal with Noah Syndergaard as the centerpiece
(48 - 4:27pm, Dec 20)
Last: billyshears

NewsblogThe Yankees’ plan in case A-Rod can’t play at all
(9 - 4:24pm, Dec 20)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogRuben Amaro Jr. says it would be best if Phillies move on from Ryan Howard
(30 - 4:23pm, Dec 20)
Last: ellsbury my heart at wounded knee

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - December 2014
(754 - 2:52pm, Dec 20)
Last: Famous Original Joe C

NewsblogThe 4 surprisingly quiet teams of the MLB offseason
(37 - 2:38pm, Dec 20)
Last: Mirabelli Dictu (Chris McClinch)

NewsblogOT: Soccer December 2014
(318 - 2:03pm, Dec 20)
Last: frannyzoo

Page rendered in 0.8757 seconds
48 querie(s) executed