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Game 3 at 1-1 is never a "must" game, but I think Dallas needs it pretty bad. Still like Miami's chances even if Dallas takes them again tomorrow. Looking forward to the game; expecting a good show.
So's your Mom.
Hope you're enjoying the finals.
What's up with the Braves getting shut out by the Mets? The Mets can barely make payroll. Also, why you are up at 2:51 AM? It is only midnight out here; GF is asleep so it is dick-around-on-the-net time.
I think he answered that with his first post.
2. From the last thread, about Penn St
There are more issues than that. Temple Basketball is clearly higher priority than Penn St, and there's a lot of poaching from nearby states as well (basically the Big East and a bunch of Ohio schools).
as for the recruiting issues, i don't think that's an issue. they should be able to recruit from ohio to the jersey shore, from DC to new york. plus chambers might be able to exploit some of the connections he's made in boston.
they should be able to pull from pittsburgh and philadelphia, from washington, baltimore, and new york, plus all the surrounding areas.
And I was thinking "So's" as "So does".
Sleep deprivation and scotch - a brilliant combination.
I'd give this a qualified sort of. Sure they can get some kids for those regions, but can they get the in-demand kids from those regions? Swarthmore's recruiting base is essentially that region; that doesn't mean they're a factor. Penn State's obviously different than Swarthmore, but are they at this point that much different than Lehigh? Can they outrecruit Rutgers in the eastern part of the region or West Virginia in the southwestern part? Forget about Pitt to the West and Nova to the East and Syracuse to the North and Maryland to the South. Can they make a case to being a solid #2 in any of those regions in terms of recruiting? Maybe so. And if not now, maybe so in the near future. But I wouldn't take it for granted. There's lots of good programs in the region. Penn State's got advantages on most of them, but not so many advantages as to negate a good run of press and results, as with St Joe's a few years ago or Seton Hall earlier than that.
again, if the coach is a turd, the program will continue to be a turd. but a good coach can build PSU into a good program. it's the cash coming in that affects the athletic department. they don't get BCS money in the MAC, and they don't play premier home games against miami, virginia tech, boston college, syracuse, etc. the record is better, but it's a hit to the bottom line.
I heard Colin Cowherd say something like the team that wins game 3 when the series is tied 1-1 wins the series something like 80% of the time.
Actually winning games has improved Temple's attendance by a significant amount (they gained roughly 3000 extra fans per game in the last year alone.)
Plus, Temple's basketball program pays for itself. It can completely ignore the other sports for revenue purposes.
I think you are underestimating Temple, and honestly, St. Joe's as well. The Atlantic 10 actually is a good thing for recruiting in Philly, due to have 3 Big 5 teams in there. LaSalle isn't as big a deal, but those schools can can compete. And honestly, PSU's program is pretty historically lousy. So the new guy has to do something to even get to where Temple or St. Joe's are.
And while Temple football isn't generating as much money as they used to from BCS shares, they are doing much better getting cash coming in from sources outside BCS money - including even getting to a bowl themselves. They will have a football home game this year against PSU in Philly - which might actualy not completely be a sea of blue this time around.
I wonder how this'll look when run by an NBA team. I wonder how much of his philosophy will be incorporated in the Lakers' offense. I wonder how receptive the Laker players will be after years of the triangle.
Sure. Every game in a best-of-7 is important, but whoever loses tonight is still very much in business.
Basically, I think:
The series is going back to Miami.
Dallas obviously needs to be up 3-2 when it does.
They need this game tonight for that reason.
I think if Miami gets the series back to Miami, even down 3-2, they still have a very good chance.
_________________________________________________________________
This is from SSR, written by Messina himself and linked from a Russian website:
___
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/6/4/2207127/lakers-hire-ettore-messina#storyjump
Messina supposedly wants to be an NBA head coach and is taking this gig as a way to get there.
Terry and Barea missed a lot of make-able shots.
Kidd seems to be playing good defense, but Wade has seemed unguardable for a lot of the Finals.
Wade has been unstoppable for stretches, but LeBron has been too passive for similar stretches. I can't tell if he's deferring to Wade's hot hand or just standing around, but I don't really get why he isn't attacking more. Balancing that with Terry and Barea underperforming, it'll be interesting to see how those guys do in game 4.
I don't know what it is, whether he's trying to be the triple-double threat he is, but he didn't shoot until after the first media timeout, I think. Guys like Jordan or Kobe get lauded for it as letting their teammates get in the flow of the game before they take over, but Wade is Lebron's equal. He's going to burn for the whole game. The difference in their energy has been stark. At the same time though, Wade has a much easier matchup than Lebron does. On crucial possessions where matchup considerations are huge, Wade is the guy (it doesn't hurt that he's been hot for most of this series).
This was supposed to be LeBron's Finals MVP but Wade is the clear favorite right now. Who would have figured that. Not that it's really shocking but this is supposed to be the start of Lebron's championship narrative and it's not following the script, thus far anyway.
Yeah, I've seen him take that one-footed half pivot shot so many times (who hasn't) but it's usually from a bit closer in, starting from about a foot within the paint. He didn't have enough time to get closer, which might have been caused by Haslem denying him well and forcing him to start his move from beyond the three point line. Whatever the case, I didn't think he was going to make it because it was from an atypical place.
As to the James/Wade thing, I recall that when James was talking about going to Miami late last summer, one of the things he said was something to the effect that with Wade there, the team could win a big game without James playing at the top of his game. Tonight was a good example.
The announcers later corrected themselves to say it should've been disallowed. They were initially wrong about the rule. Here's an explanation from Kelly Dwyer at Yahoo: Mario Chalmers, and the buzzer beater that shouldn't have counted.
The flip-side of that, though, is that looking at their offensive execution is missing half the picture. Gregg Doyle asked LeBron about his non-MVP numbers, and got smacked down. LeBron made comments when the big 3 got together about how having Wade on his side meant they could win close games when he wasn't at his best on offense, and it looks like he meant them.
Edit: Video
He deserved it. Doyle had an agenda with that question, he was deliberately trying to get under Lebron's skin and write a hatchet job article. For once, I thought Lebron handled the question and spoke without sounding like an idiot.
How quickly they forgot the last series against the Bulls.
This is a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. Media votes on it, right? We all know awards voters vote for a story, and the story that Wade's the closer and Lebron isn't is an easy one to write. No one wants to write the Lebron "redemption" story, everyone still wants to kick him around.
So it was just like every other Doyle question and article.
James has a whole crew of defenders at ESPN--all the stat guys and all the Heat Index guys. Stat guys around the blogosphere stick up for him as well. He still takes a lot of crap from MSM non-stat guys/generalists, I assume, although I don't read much of it.
Basically, as noted, James has a tougher matchup than Wade does, so Wade is taking over. As an aside, I think James could have gotten a little more MSM credit for the amazing pass to Chalmers in G2 (got lost when Miami lost) and for the pass to Bosh last night, which was a hell of a pass.
They all need to get out of their mother's basements and watch a game. The guy is clearly riding Wade's coattails.
From the Dallas perspective, do you want to push LeBron to try to take over as the primary scorer? You know on some level he's concerned about his legacy and eager to show he's the best player in this series, and maybe LeBron going into isolation mode gives the best odds of shutting down the Heat, but it's such a double-edged sword. If the Mavs allow LeBron some room and he gets hot, then what little chance they have of a comeback is likely gone.
I guess Dallas should push LeBron to take over, just because Marion is a better matchup than Kidd or anyone else they have on Wade, but I don't really know how they would do that. LeBron is a willing and skilled passer, so I'm not sure how they would force his hand. I'd love to see him more active in the Heat offense, but his taking the backseat to Wade as primary option is smart matchups, not passivity or indicative of some deep-seated inadequacy. I've been vaguely rooting for the Heat to win in part so that I don't have to live with the "LeBron is a choker" meme next season, but if the MSM just ignores the ECF and runs with Wade as Batman/LeBron as Robin, that might be differently but equally bad.
Honestly, if I were Dallas, I'd worry more about getting Kidd, Barea, Terry, and Peja scoring than anything else. That's been their problem so far this series.
I've been watching a lot of the post-game press conferences that the NBA has been streaming this postseason, and I've been struck by how nearly all journalist questions are not just stupid,
Dan Patrick routinely mocks reporters for this. He plays the question and answer, talks about it, and then replays the question to mock it. His favorite is when the guy goes, "Could you talk about situation x..."
I love Lebron's answer. I don't think there's anyway he can win with these idiot reporters. If the Heat lose it's Lebron's fault no matter what he does. If they win without him scoring big he's disappearing and has to be carried by his teammate. If he scores 50 in a Heat win they'll probably attack him for not sharing the ball with Bosh and Wade.
I think Lebron had a bad game in some respects - too many turnovers and a few forced bad shots/24s violations where he should have worked to shoot earlier. But he made some fine contributions with defense and led the team with 9 assists. I can't fault him a bit for not shooting more when letting Wade control the possession was working so well.
That is a great smackdown line. If the NBA had a Conn Smythe trophy, Lebron would be far and away the favorite. He absolutely carried the Heat in the Celtics and Bulls series. He had 9 assists last night, and has been playing PG for that team, as well as absolutely defending the hell out of the ball. Somebody tweeted that Lebron has had 5 points scored against him as the primary defender in the 4th quarter in all 3 finals games.
FWIW, Shawn Marion has also been playing great D on Lebron.
Well put.
Edit: Just watched the video of LeBron's answer; that was pretty great.
I didn't realize that. Then again, Shawn Marion isn't exactly option #1 for Dallas down the stretch. I'd like to see Lebron defending Dirk towards the end of games, now that would be quite a test.
He's the same height as Haslem, and quicker so I don't see why the Heat have not done this.
Edit: Probably for foul reasons, Dirk is so good at getting to the line and you can't risk Lebron taking an early exit. But if he's got 3 or less heading into the 4th, I think it's worth a try.
Edit: Ok, it might be surprising for ESPN because it's true and well-written, but maybe I'm too cynical. Or should be more cynical, because it shows that ESPN _doesn't_ have all the worse writers.
If Wade wins the Finals MVP, LeBron should convince him to make a commercial where Wade jumps off of LeBron's back to dunk.
Edit: Thinking about it a little more, this could be a great thing for Steph Curry, couldn't it?
That said, Golden State needs to figure out what it's doing with its roster, and short of drafting the next elite power forward they aren't winning a championship any time soon.
Adande writes pretty well, and he is one of those guys, like Windhorst, who seems to like the players, and usually writes about them from an even-keeled but positive POV. Adande is not a very good analyst, but he does do good work on stories like that.
I don't know about that. I was in my teens when the Bulls were going on their runs but I don't remember Grant being any kind of offensive option at all (other than put backs at the rim). Paxson, Kerr, Hodges, Armstrong, etc., all seemed to get the ball more.
Anyway, my point being that I think Bosh is a MUCH better shooter than Grant ever was...and at this point in his career Bosh definitely doesn't have Grant's defensive or rebounding skills.
I think in some ways Bosh is highlighted because there's a natural parallel between the Heat and the Bulls. LeBron is similar to Pippen (but better) and Wade is similar to Jordan (but worse). Obviously that's not entirely true -- great players tend to be unique and these guys are no exception -- but the comparison is there role-wise. Joel Anthony paeans notwithstanding, both guys have generic mediocre big guys at the 5 and generic one-dimensional shooters at the 1. It's at the 4 where the teams are really very different -- the Jordan/Pippen Bulls had (Oakley/)Grant/Rodman, rebounding/defense guys, while the Heat have a finesse scoring 4 instead.
This ignores the obvious big difference of the triangle offense, but from a skills standpoint, Bosh is the biggest contrast here. I think we assume that it'd be better to have a Grant/Rodman type there because perhaps the greatest team in history did that, or at least we expect it, so when Bosh fails to be that sort of player he becomes an obvious lightning rod for criticism.
Perhaps. However, I think the recent criticism is focused more on his 31% shooting during the Finals. Also I think it is due to the fact that Heat's offense, while good or even very good, failed to really be excellent at many points this season. People remember that the Bulls offense was (number 1 in ORtg 4 of their 6 title years), even with an offensive non-entity like Rodman starting at the 4 (of course, the Bulls had Kukoc coming off the bench and the Heat's version of him (Miller) was injured most of the year). So, I think people expected a little more from the offense as that is considered Bosh's specialty and the credentials of the other 2 guys on that end are impeccable.
The Lebron vitriol has really reached the point of embarrassment. I have found myself cheering for him purely to shut people up. Bucher got on the radio today and essentially called Lebron a role player on "Wade's team". It amazes me that people go out of their way to make sure Lebron does not get any credit. I wonder if people are going to look back at 2010-11 as the year sportswriters lost their minds.
Just out of curiosity....how many people on here think that someone other than Lebron James is the best basketball player on the planet?
I can't remember seeing anyone ever say this on this thread.
I think you could _maybe_ put together a case for Dwight Howard if you tried hard enough, but it would be really, really tenuous and require some pretty fringe theories about value (e.g. a strong belief that the 1-4 offense is best possible and in trickle-down effect from having a stopper at the rim). There is no plausible case for anyone else. It's kind of like with Jordan, the reason he was miles ahead of everyone else was his defense. Guys like Dirk and Durant and Paul and Nash and Wade are maybe close to LBJ on offensive value (you could maybe even argue very slightly ahead of) but he is light years ahead of all those guys on defense.
I think you could _maybe_ put together a case for Dwight Howard if you tried hard enough, but it would be really, really tenuous and require some pretty fringe theories about value (e.g. a strong belief that the 1-4 offense is best possible and in trickle-down effect from having a stopper at the rim).
I think that undersells Howard's defensive impact - yes, LeBron is great defensively, but I don't think (can't say whether or not there's support for this), Howard has a much bigger impact defensively every game than LeBron. And Howard's offense improved quite a bit this season. A lot of us said Howard was our MVP pick for this past season, but that doesn't mean we can't also think LeBron is the best player.
I agree with this. Lebron is a great one on one defender. What Howard does, and what great centers do, is play man on team defense. Great defenders at the 1-4 spots can still sometimes wind up on bad defensive teams. Great defensive centers in their primes never wind up on bad defensive teams.
I think it makes sense for both teams. It helps Philly get out from Iggy's contract which is bigger than Ellis', and it gives them a marquee scorer. Sure, they'll take a defensive hit, but with Collins coaching they'll still play good D and hopefully Turner gets better. They need that go to guy.
GSW has to do something. Curry and Ellis together just isn't a great pair. Too similar with too much of the same weaknesses.
i like ellis more than most, and i do think something has to be done to improve the roster, but unless there's another deal to be made (think asik for meeks), i would not entertain a straight up swap.
Maybe more than most here, but obviously not more than the Sixers brass. Then again, even in jest, your counter proposals show you don't value Ellis highly at all. And keep your grubby hands out of the Bulls roster; the Bulls wouldn't consider that deal for a split second.
oh, and if i'm not mistaken, there cannot be a trade of the 11th overall pick until after it's made, so this could take a little while if that is part of the negotiations.
It's not, so don't worry about it.
yes, ellis fits a need for a primary scorer, but if you make that deal 1 for 1, you put the sixers back into the lottery for a half decade.
making that swap means downgrading defensively at both SG and SF, and if you do that, and continue to start spencer hawes at C, you're a bottom 10 defense, at best.
and considering defense was the main asset of the 2010-2011 team, you'd be killing the team you've put together. you just can't do that.
As the linked article points out, that isn't true from a contractual standpoint. You *want* or think the Sixers should get more back, but that's a different story. It's a gamble on Turner, as much as anything else, and also them saying they can't do anything with Iggy as the main offensive guy. Were I a Sixers fan, I would agree that this move in and of itself doesn't mean the team will be better. But I would see it as a logical first step to contention. IMO, the Sixers are further away from true contention than you think and I think this is a decent enough start at trying to shape them into an actual contender. A few small changes here or there weren't going to be enough to take this current team to one that can compete and beat the Bulls or Heat. A Holliday/Ellis/Turner core is pretty young, and as a whole, a better starting point than Holliday/Iggy/Turner (partly because Turner and Iggy aren't good fits together).
It also does improve their offense for next season (assuming Turner isn't a total bust).
2 words: andris biedrins.
if you're making that assumption, the offense will improve anyway.
Not to speak for Moses, but I think he's saying the Sixers are highly unlikely to be competing for anything other than a possible 1st round upset in the next two years, and that they may as well cash Iguodala in for a younger piece and look to 2013 at this point, rather than get caught up in the limbo of middling NBA teams. I think the willingness to do this move depends in part on what you want from the Sixers - are you happy for the next couple of years with taking stabs at 45 wins and maybe lucking into the 2nd round some year if you can grab the 5 or 6 seed, or would you rather wait and take a shot at winning 55-60 games in 3-4 years (granting that the chances of this working out are lower than the other scenario)?
No, now you're overrating Iggy and underrating Ellis. And, like Moses said, the Sixers as constituted aren't contenders. This move won't make them any closer, but it could get them there quicker. I think Thad Young and Turner both step up as wing defenders in Iggy's place.
2 words: andris biedrins.
He sucks. You don't want him. Whatever flashes he showed years ago are gone.
if you're making that assumption, the offense will improve anyway.
True, but not in the same way. This gives them a one-on-one late shot clock guy. They don't have that guy on their roster.
monta ellis alone isn't going to make the sixers a great offensive team. they still won't have enough shooters, they still won't have an interior presence. ellis changes neither of those things. maybe it takes a step forward, but it won't be top 10 in efficiency, and if you replace iguodala with ellis, the defense would crater.
if the choice is between making that straight up deal or standing pat, i think it's a no brainer to stand pat.
this team may not be great, but it's fun and it's interesting. and yes, against the consensus opinion in this thread, i think it's still dangerous.
i think they can beat chicago in a series. i think they can beat boston. i think they can beat new york and orlando and atlanta.
i'm not so willing to throw that potential away just because people who have only watched the team a handful of times in the last 3 years thinks they have no room to grow.
I think there's another option - that is take the decent core there right now and hope that an opportunity presents itself to acquire a superstar or two. A few years ago Boston was a in the position of being good enough (when Pierce was healthy) of getting to the playoffs but not being a legit contender. Then - Garnett. Last year Miami was in such a position, right before the decision.
There may not be any options out there right now, but things could change in a year or two. Maybe somebody could convince Dwight Howard to follow in the footsteps of Moses Malone instead of Shaq.
i'm not so willing to throw that potential away just because people who have only watched the team a handful of times in the last 3 years thinks they have no room to grow.
Do you really think they are the 2nd or 3rd best team in the East, that they would beat any of those teams?
Look, the Sixers won 41 games. They do not, as currently constructed, have the pieces to win a title. They are not particularly close, either. I can see the argument for wanting to keep Iguodala - maybe you have no shot at a title, but as you correctly say, it's a fun team as constructed that should get a bit better. If you're happy with that, and fine with no real shot at a title for the foreseeable future, then great, have fun.
I've been saying the same thing for months.
i think that's a false assumption. just because they don't trade iguodala for monta ellis right at this moment doesn't mean they won't trade him at some point in the future, and it doesn't mean they'll get a worse package, either.
i don't see what the rush is to blow the team up. collins has only been there 1 year, and the rotation they have (holiday, williams, meeks, turner, young, speights, and hawes) is insanely young. this isn't the 2008 team, with a roster full of mediocre veterans making a late season charge for an ill-fated playoff run. this is a young team, and so long as they don't sabotage it from the start, it has a future.
I don't think that's unreasonable.
i think that's a false assumption. just because they don't trade iguodala for monta ellis right at this moment doesn't mean they won't trade him at some point in the future, and it doesn't mean they'll get a worse package, either.
This is also a fair point.
Regarding the Sixers, I mostly agree with Steagles. I think they're an above-average center and some plausible age-related improvement away from being a contender. This year they had an expected record of 45-37, and their starting point guard is still just 20 years old. Maybe Brand will never be this good again, but there's plenty of room for improvement elsewhere. Spencer Hawes and Andres Nocioni, both of whom are very bad, played more combined minutes than Iguodala. Speights barely gets off the bench but probably still has decent trade value. Guys with his size and scoring ability are rare. Nocioni's contract is finally expiring and therefore is a plus for trade purposes. If they can turn those trade chips into a good but not great center (Okafor?), I think they're immediately scary with a chance for more as all the players in their early 20s develop.
I don't see how Monta Ellis ever improves their chances of winning. He's an exciting player, but in my opinion he's too bad defensively and too unpredictable offensively to be a significant part of a contending team. I could imagine Iguodala as the third best player on a championship team constructed in a variety of ways, but I couldn't imagine Monta pulling that off unless the team has a truly elite center like Dwight Howard. Matador defense and isolation offense generally isn't a winning combination.
Steagles and I differ is in our opinions of a Meeks for Asik swap. Whereas he would be in favor of such a deal, if that happened I think I would cry.
i think that was one of the big mistakes of last season. i understand why that was, but i think they could have really inflated his value around the league if they'd have just put him on the floor and told him to score. i mean, as it is, with him playing 11 minutes per game, and DNP-CD'ing once every 4 games, he averaged 17 and 10 per 36 minutes on 49% shooting. if they'd have kept his issues a little more under-wraps, it's possible he'd have even been an attractive enough 2nd piece to get you a real gamechanger in an iguodala deal.
the team needs a center.
plus, if you've got holiday and williams and turner and ellis, there's not much room for meeks.
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