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Wednesday, October 31, 2012

OT: NBA thread—November2012

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what the site is really about: um…baseball?

link is to the previous month’s thread. 


oh, and since i can make everyone see this every time they click on this thread, let us discuss the…unique hairstylings of the sixers projected frontcourt:

starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: October 31, 2012 at 11:05 PM | 894 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nba


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   301. rr Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:17 AM (#4300428)
Pretty much everybody outside the Lakers fanbase will be rooting for Jackson to fail, if he indeed gets hired, I assume. As far as the other stuff, perhaps. The Lakers are a family-run business, and Phil shares a bed with the owner's daughter and the VP of Basketball Operations' sister. Makes for some messy lines of communication, as I expect is often the case in family-run businesses.

That conceded, Mike Brown didn't impress anyone once he had the job and again, has been characterized by Windhorst and the Kamenetzky Brothers as a nice, hard-working guy who seems to lack the personal gravitas and suppleness of mind needed to be a really good NBA head coach. Those guys are anything but stereotypical media headhunters; indeed, they are known for their even-handedness. Certainly Brown's hiring was greeted with skepticism by many, including me, and he was heavily criticized in both 2009 and 2010 for his role in Cleveland's playoff losses (including by guys here). Given the age of the core and Howard's contract status, fair or not, I can see why they made the move.

   302. GregD Posted: November 12, 2012 at 04:12 AM (#4300437)
LA Times says D'Antoni. Phil "asked for the moon."
   303. rr Posted: November 12, 2012 at 04:23 AM (#4300438)
He probably won't be ready yet, but if he coaches Friday, his first game would be against PHX.
   304. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: November 12, 2012 at 08:27 AM (#4300447)
From the ESPN story:

A league source indicated late Sunday night that Jackson was "stunned" when the Lakers called to inform him they had chosen D'Antoni. He had been prepared to accept the job Monday if negotiations between his agent and the Lakers went well. Jackson's agent Todd Musberger had been scheduled to fly to Los Angeles on Monday

Jackson and the Lakers had never spoken about a salary, the source said, "but he knew coaches don't make what he used to make anymore." Jackson, the source said, also never intended to miss any more road games than he had in his previous years with the Lakers.

"Phil would come back only to win and skipping games doesn't lead to winning," the source said.
   305. PJ Martinez Posted: November 12, 2012 at 08:47 AM (#4300450)
As someone who roots for the Lakers to lose, I'm very glad it's D'Antoni and not Jackon. Of course it's quite possible I should not have been as scared by Jackson as I was -- he's 67, after all, and maybe his head and heart are not as totally in it as they once were. But a guy wins as much as he does, he inspires a little fear. D'Antoni, not so much.

Granted, I still think the Lakers have more than enough talent to become a force as the season progresses. And I imagine D'Antoni has a rapport with Kobe and Howard through Team USA (not to mention Nash, obviously).

And for the record I think the Lakers were wise to move on from Brown. Honestly I think they should have let him go after last season (or maybe after the trades were made). Better now than later, IMHO.
   306. JC in DC Posted: November 12, 2012 at 09:46 AM (#4300464)
Pretty much everybody outside the Lakers fanbase will be rooting for Jackson to fail, if he indeed gets hired, I assume.


You always impute such motivation. I've made clear why I hoped he fails, and it has nothing to do with "being outside the Lakers fanbase." I was just sick of his parasitism, as I called it. Like PJ, I'm happy it's D'Antoni. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I liked Brown. There is no way 5 games is a fair shake, unless your team quit which has nothing to do with Brown, but the players and the possibility of adding someone they're more fond of (i.e., it's not about the coaching). How this didn't get worked out prior to the season is beyond me. But given the injuries, the lack of time on the court together, and so on, 1-4 couldn't possibly have surprised anyone. At this point, I AM rooting for this to backfire on the Lakers, and it's not b/c I don't like them. I do. Since the Knicks haven't mattered for over a decade, I'll take the Lakers hammering the Celtics everyday and twice on gameday. But they did Brown wrong and I hope Karma gets them.
   307. rr Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:02 AM (#4300469)
I am a little surprised that a Boston fan is concerned about this; whoever the Lakers choose as coach, the league belongs to James and Co. until further notice (well, except when they play Memphis). Other than just visceral fan stuff (which is what it is and certainly is valid in its own way) there really isn't much point in the Lakers and Celtics worrying about what the other is doing right now. I doubt that Ainge and Rivers care who the Lakers' coach is. YMMV.

As to the move itself, like I said on the previous page, either Jackson or D'Antoni would need to make adjustments. Since it's D'Antoni, some elements of SSOL will need to scrapped/de-emphasized since the Lakers lack speed and shooters. One plus to it is that it pretty much ensures that Nash will be maximized if and when he is able to get out on the floor.

As to #304, both sides will be spinning. I would guess that money was a factor; the Lakers still owe Mike Brown $11M. The Lakers' public spin will be that they don't think the personnel fits the Triangle and they will leak to their media guys, like Bresnahan, that Phil wanted a massive deal and to miss a bunch of road games, that they weren't sure that he still has the fire in the belly. Phil's side, including Jeannie, probably, will leak stuff like what you see above. I have no idea what the truth is; probably some of both.

The funny thing is that even if Old Man Buss made the call on this, it will be seen as a Jim Buss decision and puts the pressure right back on him. Everyone mostly stopped bittching about him after the Howard deal, as they should have. If the Lakers had brought Jackson back, they would have backed off of Jim Buss pretty much entirely: bringing in two stars and bringing Phil back--not much else he could do. Now, unless D'Antoni gets the team to the Finals (and some people will do it if he doesn't win the whole thing), people will be tossing out "what-ifs" about the ZenMaster.

I am fairly optimistic about the hire; I think D'Antoni is smart enough to adjust, and my gut, FWIW,(not much) was telling me that going back to the well on Jackson and the Triangle would not have worked out that well--that a third time was one time too many. I am not optimistic about the team, however. Howard is still outstanding, obviously, but he doesn't look quite right to me, (lacks the explosiveness and quickness in space--seems to favor the back at times) and the Lakers have other problems. We'll see.
   308. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:20 AM (#4300482)
I was just sick of his parasitism, as I called it.


Not sure exactly what you're referring to with this term, but as a Jackson nonfan* from waaaaay back (mainly over what seems to be his insistence on coaching only in more or less ideal settings, without having to do anything even approaching heavy lifting), I really like it.

If you have a newsletter, subscription information would be much appreciated.




*The fact that I share a birthday, minus a few years, with the guy is a possible indication of the existence of a divine, mischievous power. Not to mention John Franco & Rasheed Wallace. Lord.
   309. rr Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:26 AM (#4300485)
You always impute such motivation.


A huge number of fans, probably a majority of NBA fans who are not Lakers fans, dislike the Lakers; that's a simple fact. It is probably more common in the West than in the East save for Boston fans, where, as is the case with you, the same stuff is often directed at the Celtics. It wasn't about you per se, but wanting the Lakers to lose, whatever the "motivation", puts you into a very large group.

As to Brown, the NBA is a tough business, and coaching the Lakers is, in its way, one of the toughest gigs there is. As a Laker blogger said, it wasn't just being 1-4--it was how the team looked doing it. The only win was against Detroit, which appears to be headed for a totally disastrous season. None of the other games was particularly competitive, and they had actually had everybody available for the Dallas game. The best team they played was probably the Clippers, who are good but not great, and on a night when the Clippers didn't play that well, the Lakers never, at any time, looked like they were going to win. Brown had MWP, Jamison, and Ebanks playing out of position and was refusing to play Meeks at all. It is not that these guys are much or any good, but Brown was not doing his job, which is to put them into position to succeed as well as they are able to based on their skills.

And, yes, actually, I think people were "surprised" at 1-4. Every team has injuries; look at Minnesota, or Dallas. I think 3-2 or even 2-3, with a narrow loss at Utah, might have gotten Brown to the current homestand, which is long and has several weak opponents. But four wire-to-wire schoolings by middle-of-the-pack or worse teams? Sources say that no team has ever started 1-4 and won the NBA title.
   310. rr Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:40 AM (#4300488)
(mainly over what seems to be his insistence on coaching only in more or less ideal settings, without having to do anything even approaching heavy lifting), I really like it.



This point is way overplayed. He kept coaching (successfully) in Chicago after Jordan and then Grant left; he came back to the Lakers when the team was Kobe, Odom, and a pile of crap, and he visibly improved the team, particularly on defense, so he does do a little "heavy lifting." He was still there, and, again, had moved the team forward, when the Gasol deal took them to the next level. Krause wanted him out as much as he wanted out when Jordan retired and the Bulls blew it up. It was a two-way street.

As to taking over the Kobe/Shaq Lakers in 2000, what was he supposed to do? Any available NBA coach would have killed for that gig.

Jackson is a bit like Tony LaRussa. He is pompous and his rep is at times overblown. There are a lot of reasons to dislike the guy on a visceral level, but the record is outstanding and it is not just a product of the guys he coached. Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe didn't win until Phil got there.

Also, something anyone who hates Phil should know about him: at his exit presser in 2011, the first question was, "What has made you so successful?" His answer was, "Talent. I have coached some of the greatest talent ever to play this game."
   311. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:55 AM (#4300493)
I'm glad to see D'Antoni get the shot here. He's a really good coach and got a raw deal with the Knicks who still, even with the 4-0 start, would have been better served building the team around Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni than Jim Dolan and Carmelo Anthony.
   312. GregD Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:02 AM (#4300494)
I'm glad to see D'Antoni get the shot here. He's a really good coach and got a raw deal with the Knicks who still, even with the 4-0 start, would have been better served building the team around Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni than Jim Dolan and Carmelo Anthony.
Ya think?
   313. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:04 AM (#4300497)
I'm glad to see D'Antoni get the shot here. He's a really good coach and got a raw deal with the Knicks who still, even with the 4-0 start, would have been better served building the team around Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni than Jim Dolan and Carmelo Anthony.

Agreed. I feel weird because I now wouldn't mind the Lakers winning the title and could see myself cheering for them over most of the rest of their conference. Ugh. With D'antoni at the helm the Lakers won't have to worry as much about their weak bench since he keeps his rotation so tight (though I suppose now you will have to worry more about old guys getting hurt/fatigued). The other thing is that while people harp on his defensive record, as a Knick fan I felt the biggest weakness D'antoni had was his ability to get into stupid feuds with potentially useful end of rotation players. Since the end of the Laker rotation is so bad, this will also not be as much of an issue I imagine. I'm curious to see if Kobe will adhere to the system or just break it like world renowned multiple MVP and repeat NBA champion superstar Carmelo Anthony did.
   314. rr Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:06 AM (#4300498)
Mistyped 309--the Clippers are better than "middle of the pack" and the Jazz may be as well.
   315. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:25 AM (#4300504)
You always impute such motivation.

I agree with JC here, and 309 doesn't change that. I, for one, would have loved to see Phil coach again and would have rooted for him. I'd rather this Lakers team win a title than the Heat (obviously the Celtics, too, but that's not a concern this year...). OTOH, I totally agree with the gist of 310, even though I think Phil is clearly better than TLR and would temper the overblown part of the comment.

---

Any Wolves fans with anything to say about the Bulls/Wolves game Saturday? I barely watched, and didn't enjoy what I saw. Hinrich got hurt, so NateRob is starting at PG for the Bulls tonight against the C's. Yuck.
   316. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4300517)
Any Wolves fans with anything to say about the Bulls/Wolves game Saturday? I barely watched, and didn't enjoy what I saw. Hinrich got hurt, so NateRob is starting at PG for the Bulls tonight against the C's. Yuck.

Why do people hate Nate so much? He's a useful guy.
   317. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:53 AM (#4300523)
I don't hate him, he's been very useful to have so far this year - and good. He's frustrating to watch at times. That particular comment was about Rondo most likely destroying him tonight and the not at all ready for the NBA Teague as the only backup, it wasn't a yuck directed at him.
   318. Famous Original Joe C Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4300528)
Moses - what is your list of teams that can win the title this year?
   319. Booey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:05 PM (#4300533)
Phil shares a bed with the owner's daughter and the VP of Basketball Operations' sister.


BOTH of them? ;-)

Put me in the "I'm glad the Lakers went with D'Antoni instead" camp. It's frustrating to me that a team could have an all time great coach on speed dial to come bail them out whenever they're struggling. If they'd given the job to Phil, that would have been the 3rd time he'd done exactly that. And no other teams have that luxury.

I do think the "parasitism" term is a bit strong, though. I've always been curious to see what he could do with an average team too (though I guess we sorta saw that with the 2006-2007 Lakers, but they still had Kobe in his 81 point prime), but I have no problem conceding that Jackson is the best coach of my lifetime (and I say that as someone who would have Jerry Sloan's babies if it were physically possible). Phil is one of the few if not only coaches around nowadays who I think could make just as big an impact on a teams record/title chances as any star player this side of LeBron.
   320. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:05 PM (#4300534)
What was the story with Bynum's injury, btw? I thought he did the Kobe-knee thing, and that was supposed to be...I don't want to say preventative, but maybe optional?

?@KBergCBS
Sixers put out yet another statement on Andrew Bynum's prognosis, saying he could return to basketball activities Dec. 10.

?@KBergCBS
Statement says Dec. 10 return for Bynum, "if current prognosis holds unchanged," would be followed by 1-4 weeks of practice/conditioning.

?@KBergCBS
That timetable could push Bynum's return to game action into January.
   321. Tripon Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4300538)
BOTH of them? ;-)


They're the same person.
   322. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4300540)
Phil is one of the few if not only coaches around nowadays who I think could make just as big an impact on a teams record/title chances as any star player this side of LeBron.


What's the general view of Pat Riley and his legacy? I guess he's not on Jackson's level but he's not far behind. Right?
   323. Famous Original Joe C Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4300542)
What was the story with Bynum's injury, btw? I thought he did the Kobe-knee thing, and that was supposed to be...I don't want to say preventative, but maybe optional?


Doesn't matter anyway, because Dorell Wright and Evan Turner are going to be All-Stars.
   324. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:09 PM (#4300544)
Moses - what is your list of teams that can win the title this year?

I think I picked the Lakers to win it, but I'd say it goes MIA, LAL, OKC, in that order. Anyone else is less than 5% chance, at best and would need an injury or other unforeseen event to 2 of the first 3 teams, and would include SA, BOS, and if you had asked me 2 weeks ago I'd also have included the Bulls.
   325. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4300546)
What's the general view of Pat Riley and his legacy? I guess he's not on Jackson's level but he's not far behind. Right?

There's a not insignificant gap, IMO.
   326. Booey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:28 PM (#4300555)
They're the same person.


I know. Hence the winking smiley.
   327. Booey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4300561)
Agreed with #324.

I'd put the list of true contenders this season at exactly those 3 teams and no others. Actually, most seasons have only 3-4 true contenders. I don't like to get cute and give teams like the Clippers or the Grizzlies (last season) an "outside" shot at winning. They just won't.
   328. GregD Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:39 PM (#4300562)
What's the general view of Pat Riley and his legacy? I guess he's not on Jackson's level but he's not far behind. Right?
If Pat had come out of retirement to make himself the Heat coach once LeBron arrived, I would say yes. But to my surprise he didn't.
   329. Famous Original Joe C Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:42 PM (#4300564)
Moses - agree with your list in 324. Was just curious.
   330. Manny Coon Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4300582)
Mistyped 309--the Clippers are better than "middle of the pack" and the Jazz may be as well.


The Clippers might be really good, even with Griffin injured and playing well below his ability they are the only team to beat both the Spurs and Grizzlies. I think the most notable development for the Clippers so far is that Eric Bledsoe is maintaining his production from the playoffs, if he can do that all year, they are going to be really tough.
   331. Tripon Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4300583)
If Pat had come out of retirement to make himself the Heat coach once LeBron arrived, I would say yes. But to my surprise he didn't.


Hey, that's a bit harsh to Phil. Nobody forced the Lakers or Bulls to fire their previous coaches and hire him. Pat made the decision to 'retire' from coaching when things got bad, and then 'unretire' when the team was better, and fired Stan Van Gundy who he hired, and then 'retired' again when the team was bad. He doesn't get credit for not doing it twice.
   332. Spivey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4300586)
I think the Spurs are legit contenders. OKC is tough, but they didn't badly outplay the spurs in the WCF last year, and they definitely got a lot of calls in Game 6. They also had a game where I believe Ibaka and Perkins were a combined 35-36 from the field (this may be a slight exaggeration). Miami is the favorite, but let's also not forget it took LeBron James playing at best-player-ever level for them to win it all which is probably not sustainable even for him, and they didn't exact steamroll their way through Indiana and Boston.

I'd definitely rate Jackson above Riley.
   333. Spivey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4300595)
Also, I think the Clippers or Memphis could be in the mix. If you gave me a combined 10% for Spurs, Clippers and Memphis for winning the title this year I'd definitely take it. I'd take 5% for the Spurs, too.
   334. Mark S. is bored Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4300598)
Kevin McHale takes a leave of absence:

Houston Rockets coach Kevin McHale took a leave of absence on Saturday to deal with a family matter.

The team announced the move and said assistant coach Kelvin Sampson will be in charge while McHale is out.

Sampson said McHale called him Saturday afternoon and asked him to coach the team.

"Hopefully whatever the family matter is, it gets taken care of," Sampson said. "That's the most important thing."

There is no timetable for the return of the second-year coach and Hall of Fame player.
   335. Famous Original Joe C Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:30 PM (#4300608)
Also, I think the Clippers or Memphis could be in the mix. If you gave me a combined 10% for Spurs, Clippers and Memphis for winning the title this year I'd definitely take it. I'd take 5% for the Spurs, too.


I suppose I'd take 5% for the Spurs too. Memphis, no way. It's been, what, six games? If they are playing this well at midseason still, maybe they should be considered.

Barring any major injuries, there haven't been enough games yet to change one's mind about any team.
   336. Spivey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4300621)
Barring any major injuries, there haven't been enough games yet to change one's mind about any team.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I believe in Memphis. Also, the Lakers have clear question marks about their age and health. Oklahoma City is playing without Harden this year, even if Martin has been solid so far.
   337. andrewberg Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4300622)
Any Wolves fans with anything to say about the Bulls/Wolves game Saturday? I barely watched, and didn't enjoy what I saw. Hinrich got hurt, so NateRob is starting at PG for the Bulls tonight against the C's. Yuck.


I missed the fourth quarter when the Bulls started to kind of pull away (watching UW-Utah game, so if you're a Ute fan, Booey, uhh, I guess I have the upper hand). Up to that point, the Wolves were once again not able to defend the opposing PG. They're 4-2. The 2 losses were to the Bulls where NateRob killed them, and to the Raptros where Lowry killed them. In two of their wins, Deron Williams led the Nets to a 22 point lead before they collapsed, and George Hill had a season high in points to almost overcome an otherwise very good team performance by himself. When Ridnour and Pekovic are on the court together, they really struggle to defend PGs. They do not help much, Ridnour cannot stay in front of anyone, and Pekovic is more of a one-on-one guy than a help defender.

So for the Bulls game, it looked from the play by play that the Bulls made a run late after Robinson had done most of his damage, so that's not the whole story. It could be getting ugly because Barea, Roy, and Budinger (under the knife) have joined Rubio and Love in street clothes. That leaves Ridnour, Shved, and Lee in the backcourt, and that's it. It's going to be a rough stretch until mid-December when they start coming back.

----

D'antoni vs. Jackson- I am not going to like the Lakers either way. I like both of those guys as coaches, but I probably like Jackson a bit more because he's my top competition in the greatest living North Dakotan rankings. Jackson would probably help a little more. I will be interested to see how the offense adjusts with D'antoni, and maybe even more interested to see how they decide to play defense. Any word on who he will bring on his staff?
   338. Booey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4300624)
I suppose I'd take 5% for the Spurs too.


5 percent, sure. But do you really consider a 5% chance to be a legit contender? I don't.
   339. Yardape Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4300633)
Oklahoma City is playing without Harden this year, even if Martin has been solid so far.


As a Clippers fan, this is what gives me hope. OKC minus Harden just doesn't seem like the impossible beast. The conference favourite, sure, but I think there is a realistic possibility that the Spurs, Grizzlies or Clippers could beat them. Then Chris Bosh gets hurt or something and poof, surprise NBA champions.
   340. Booey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4300634)
watching UW-Utah game, so if you're a Ute fan, Booey, uhh, I guess I have the upper hand


Eh. During the rare seasons when I've followed college sports, it was always the Utes. But I admit I haven't paid much attention since the Keith Van Horn/Andre Miller days.

1998 was a tough year for Utah basketball fans with both the Utes and Jazz losing in the Finals. It's been 14 years, but the Wildcats and Bulls can still both go to hell. :-)
   341. Famous Original Joe C Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4300642)


5 percent, sure. But do you really consider a 5% chance to be a legit contender? I don't.


As we discussed in the preseason, well, yes and no. I'd group the contenders into two tiers - the second tier being "teams who are unlikely to win but have at least a punchers chance if everything breaks their way".

I guess if one has Memphis in this second tier, we can agree to disagree - though I wouldn't let what has happened to open the season make me think they should be in that group if I didn't think it before the season.

The Clippers I will buy as a "puncher's chance" contender before I buy Memphis. Heck, I'd take the Bulls over Memphis too.
   342. Famous Original Joe C Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4300643)

1998 was a tough year for Utah basketball fans with both the Utes and Jazz losing in the Finals.


Well, the counterargument here is that it was the most successful year for "Utah basketball" in history.
   343. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:17 PM (#4300644)
Kelvim Sampson. SMH.
   344. Booey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4300654)
Well, the counterargument here is that it was the most successful year for "Utah basketball" in history.


Well, in my lifetime, anyway. I think the Utes did win an NCAA title sometime in the '40's and I know the Utah Stars won an ABA title in the '70's.

Edit: Yep, Utes won NCAA title in 1944 and NIT championship (whatever that is) in 1947. Stars won ABA title in 1971. Hooray for things that happened before I was born.
   345. andrewberg Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4300664)
1998 was a tough year for Utah basketball fans with both the Utes and Jazz losing in the Finals. It's been 14 years, but the Wildcats and Bulls can still both go to hell. :-)


I was talking football for the UW-Utah game, but fair enough. I had a Utah Mountain Dew cap in 1998 so I would have won a jersey if they took the title. Very disappointing.
   346. smileyy Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:53 PM (#4300672)
So has Bill Simmons asterisk'ed this season yet, because of the Harden trade, and the Lakers not hiring Phil Jackson?

I didn't realize you could fill a Family Feud category with "The Worst Decisions Made By A Championship Contenter This Season".
   347. Booey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4300679)
I was talking football for the UW-Utah game


D'oh! Even for someone who follows college sports as little as I do, I should've known that you were talking about football, being you know, football season and all. All I know about Utes football is that we had two undefeated seasons in the last decade back when we were playing in a conference that doesn't matter.
   348. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 12, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4300681)
Well, the counterargument here is that it was the most successful year for "Utah basketball" in history.

It was the year that brought Michael Doleac and Hanno Möttölä to national prominence. A year like none other.
   349. andrewberg Posted: November 12, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4300690)
Möttölä


LOL! I distinctly remember a play where they won on a tip in at the buzzer off of an inbounds pass. That might have been earlier when Van Horn was there. It also could have been Doleac. I think the takeaway from this discussion is that Rick Majerus was and is a heck of a coach.
   350. andrewberg Posted: November 12, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4300699)
Injury report from tonight's Wolves-Mavs game:

Minnesota is without Love, Rubio, Barea, Budinger (torn meniscus, ugh), and probably Roy.
Dallas is without Nowitzki, Marion, and possibly Carter.

On the bright side, we're finally going to get to see that Shved-Mayo showdown we've all been waiting for.
   351. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 12, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4300714)
What was the story with Bynum's injury, btw? I thought he did the Kobe-knee thing, and that was supposed to be...I don't want to say preventative, but maybe optional?
i actually think it's very similar to what happened with chase utley. the knee feels good when he stays off his feet, and he makes statements like "if this was the playoffs, i'd be in the lineup". but anytime he gets up on it, he has a setback.
Doesn't matter anyway, because Dorell Wright and Evan Turner are going to be All-Stars.
no, it actually matters quite a bit.

but, getting to ~12-4 or 11-5 at the end of november shouldn't at all be an issue. they have games against milwaukee, detroit, toronto, cleveland, dallas, phoenix, and charlotte (and utah and OKC) leading into december, and even without bynum (and without brown, and without richardson), they should be able to power through that.
   352. Booey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 04:19 PM (#4300754)
I think the takeaway from this discussion is that Rick Majerus was and is a heck of a coach.


Yeah. He's one of those that makes me wonder why a great college coach couldn't be a great NBA coach. In his case, I think he just wasn't interested.
   353. Tripon Posted: November 12, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4300764)
Rick Majerus just wasn't healthy enough. By choice, mind you. A lot of his health issues seem to be weight related.
   354. smileyy Posted: November 12, 2012 at 04:44 PM (#4300777)
[353] He got his health back together for a while when he took the St. Louis job, and had built what looked to be a potential top-10 team before two starters were suspended. Then his health declined again and he took a leave of absence.

There's also a story of him having a team manager hold out a towel for him to *($# into during a practice or something, when he didn't want to stop and go to the bathroom.
   355. smileyy Posted: November 12, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4300815)
It's frustrating to me that a team could have an all time great coach on speed dial to come bail them out whenever they're struggling. If they'd given the job to Phil, that would have been the 3rd time he'd done exactly that. And no other teams have that luxury.


Its not frustrating to me -- its just another inequality in a league full of inequalities. Some teams spend more money. Some teams have LeBron James. Some teams have terrible owners.

That, and I like to see greatness doing great things. Mostly players, but all-time great coaches like Jackson and Popovich are also enjoyable.
   356. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 12, 2012 at 05:29 PM (#4300826)
you know, vinny del negro is still pretty vulnerable as the coach of the clippers. and, while i'm pretty sure that phil was out of basketball for good, if coming so close to coaching again (not to mention, being passed over by his idiot little brother) has rekindled his competitive fire, the clippers have to be a very attractive situation for him. chris paul, blake griffin, grant hill, caron butler, matt barnes, chauncey billups, deandre jordan, jamal crawford, and the corpse of lamar odom. that's a veteran core, with a pair of young superstars, and they play in los angeles.

if you add phil jackson to that, they might be able to go head to head with the best in the west.
   357. Booey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 05:30 PM (#4300828)
Its not frustrating to me -- its just another inequality in a league full of inequalities. Some teams spend more money. Some teams have LeBron James. Some teams have terrible owners.


Those inequalities aren't all along the same lines. Terrible or cheap owners are the teams own fault and don't deserve any sympathy.
   358. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: November 12, 2012 at 06:07 PM (#4300847)
if you add phil jackson to that, they might be able to go head to head with the best in the west.

If Donald Sterling wasn't incredibly cheap and was only interested in headlines like Woody Johnson, he would totally fire VDN and spite hire Phil. And his team would get significantly better as a nice by-product. Good call.
   359. rr Posted: November 12, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4300854)
I agree with JC here, and 309 doesn't change that.


I have never that I recall said that you actively dislike the Lakers. If I did, I was wrong. You are, like JC and many Eastern fans, much more anti-Celtic, but that doesn't change the truth of what I said about the Lakers. The Lakers are more or less the Yankees of the NBA these days. However, you are touchy about Jordan/Bulls and therefore about some Kobe stuff (one example--when Kobe scored 42 with the bad finger in CHI a couple of years ago, you said that he had to be "lying" about the injury). There are other examples that I could give. Like everybody else, you have your biases and you stick up for your guys. Those realities apply when you talk about the Lakers, and about Bryant.

---

It is hard to picture Phil working for Donald Sterling, and Donald Sterling paying for Phil, but if Phil really feels snubbed or whatever, then you never know, I suppose. That would be quite an angle for ESPN.

Lakers fans on the blog I hang out at are a little bummed but intrigued by D'Antoni. Part of that is that there was some bad blood between the teams and the two coaches during the SSOL era since the Suns took the Lakers out in the playoffs two straight years, and because Nash complained openly about the Gasol deal. As I said when the rumors started, picking D'Antoni over Jackson was really a way for Buss Jr to stick it to Phil, so some people are upset because they think this is a petty personal thing and that is why Phil is not the coach.

I would guess that Phoenix fans have some strange feelings about Nash and D'Antoni reuniting with the Lakers.
   360. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 12, 2012 at 07:11 PM (#4300889)
jason richardson looks like he's going to be back in the lineup tonight against the bucks. hopefully that just means that dorell wright gets more minutes at the 4, evan turner gets more minutes at the 1, and nick young's minutes get slashed when his shot goes cold.

   361. Spivey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 08:07 PM (#4300930)
5 percent, sure. But do you really consider a 5% chance to be a legit contender? I don't.


Start thinking about how small of a percentage each team has, though.

You can start at 50% for the West. The Spurs 5-10%. And I think Memphis, Clippers, and Denver are a combined 5-10%. Everyone else is a wild card few percent. It's hard for me to see OKC as some clearly better team than the Spurs, and give them a big boost. The Spurs were the best regular season team each of the last two years, and I don't see any reason why they're not well built for the post-season either if they're healthy. They did win 10 straight games in the playoffs last year. The Lakers are easy - if Dwight Howard isn't 100%, they're not winning the title. Period. And there seems to be some serious concern about that - generally, I'd expect a player with a back injury to be resting it instead of trying to play through it and potentially further injure it. They're both about 15%, which really isn't that different from where the Spurs are (unless you think the Spurs are exactly 5%, in which case I disagree.

I really think the West is extremely wide open over the last couple of years and that is why it's extremely difficult to predict any series. Dallas can sweep the Lakers because they catch fire from 3. San Antonio can lose to Memphis. Oklahoma City can send Dirk to the line 25 times a game.
   362. Spivey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 08:48 PM (#4300963)
Beno Udrih plays defense like a 35 year old European.
   363. kpelton Posted: November 12, 2012 at 09:27 PM (#4300988)
What odds did people give Dallas of winning the championship this time two years ago?
   364. GregD Posted: November 12, 2012 at 09:31 PM (#4300990)
What odds did people give Dallas of winning the championship this time two years ago?
100%, personally. I just forgot to keep my ticket from the sportsbook
   365. rr Posted: November 12, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4300994)
I think SA is definitely a serious contender; there are legit questions about how good the Lakers are, and OKC, while they may come out ahead long-term, is IMO a bit weakened by the Harden deal.

As to Dallas, I think people simply underrated them (they were 2-7 or so IIRC without Nowitzki) some, and they also shot unusually well from 3 in many key post-season games.

San Antonio could be on a similar track this season.
   366. Spivey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:14 PM (#4301012)
Marquis Daniels is a ####### terrible basketball player.
   367. Spivey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:30 PM (#4301026)
I don't understand why Tobias Harris got such little playing time in the second half. He's a really nice looking stretch 4.

The Bucks won by 9 on the road in a game, despite 23 turnovers and the Sixers shooting 10-24 from 3.

The Sixers are simply not a very good team without Bynum. Richardson looked fairly healthy. Hawesome update: 3-11. Holliday looked really good, despite having 8 turnovers. He was abusing Jennings and Udrih. On the flip side, Jennings went crazy. Monta Ellis is actually a fun player to root for. He may not be good at defense, but he does try. Evan Turner for the most part was a passenger in the game.

Dorrell Wright played pretty well. The Bucks are the better team.
   368. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:39 PM (#4301030)
well, that was a bad loss. things:

1, evan turner and dorell wright combined for 22, 8, 5 assists, 4 steals, and a block. the bucks shot 50+% so there weren't a whole lot of defensive boards available. turner just wasn't very good, and wright didn't score a point in the 2nd half. they were a combined -33, and yeah, it felt that way,

2, dispencer hawesome update: 6 points, 5 rebounds and an assist on 3/11 shooting. i'd say that's a 5:95 hawesome:HAHAwes ratio.

3, jason richardson was the player of the game tonight. he was a +12 in 36 minutes, which means that in the 12 minutes when he wasn't on the floor, the sixers were outscored by 21. he had 20 points on 8/16 shooting, and i think he scored 10 of the sixers first 12 points, which was kind of important because milwaukee hit their first 9 shots. when the sixers were able to tighten the game up in the 3rd and 4th quarters, it was because richardson kept the bucks' lead to a manageable margin in the first quarter.

other randoms:
..jrue holiday still has the turnover thing going. he came into the game averaging ~5 turnovers per game, and today he had 8. that's not good, but he's also handling the ball a whole hell of a lot more than he has since was in highschool, so hopefully this is just a brief adjustment period, and he'll ratchet those down when games start to matter.
..the sixers played a lot of minutes with thad young at the 5 tonight, and i can't help but feel that that is not a good idea.
   369. Spivey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:44 PM (#4301032)
Jrue Holliday seemed to have created a lot of the open shots. Wright didn't feel like a -15 to me. He just had the unfortunate situation of being on the court when the Bucks were shooting like 65%, but I don't remember any particularly bad defense from him.
   370. andrewberg Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:35 PM (#4301052)
Pek sprained his ankle. Just trying to keep it to one new injury per game now.
   371. Booey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4301053)
Woo hoo! Jazz will NOT go 0-41 on the road this year!

Epic game. Beware the 3 point machine that is Paul Millsap (3-4 this game, 8-12 so far this season).
   372. Booey Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:44 PM (#4301062)
What odds did people give Dallas of winning the championship this time two years ago?


Not good. But as I've said before, they were one of only two teams in the 20+ years that I've been following the NBA that wouldn't have been in my top 4 preseason picks (2004 Pistons are the other). If I'm wrong about this once a decade or so, I can live with that success rate.

Also, if I ranked every team from most likely to least likely to win the title, the Spurs would be my 4th pick, so they wouldn't really buck my success rate that much if they won. But yes, I think they probably have lower odds than the 4th best team would in most years.

   373. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:13 AM (#4301083)
what is millsap's career 3pt % in ot games?
   374. Booey Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:26 AM (#4301093)
what is millsap's career 3pt % in ot games?


I don't know how to look that up, but yeah, it seems that every 3 he makes is in crunch time of a close game. Love it.
   375. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:46 AM (#4301100)
I don't know how to look that up, but yeah, it seems that every 3 he makes is in crunch time of a close game. Love it.
this seems to indicate that he's shot 13/41 from beyond the arc in 4th quarter and OT in his career.
   376. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:59 AM (#4301106)
i made it the last 5 min of the 4thq + ot and where the margin is within 8 pts either way ... now 10-22. other times: 10-57. (does not include tonight, where he was 3-for-4 in a 3ot game)
   377. Booey Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:00 AM (#4301107)
this seems to indicate that he's shot 13/41 from beyond the arc in 4th quarter and OT in his career.

Not quite as good as I would've guessed. 8/15 in 2011 though.

Edit: thanks Der K! That's more like it! :-)
   378. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:06 AM (#4301109)
i made it the last 5 min of the 4thq + ot and where the margin is within 8 pts either way ... now 10-22. other times: 10-57. (does not include tonight, where he was 3-for-4 in a 3ot game)
2/11 last year, but 10/12 this year and in 2010-11 combined (including tonight).
   379. rr Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:35 AM (#4301121)
You know, Booey, I almost picked the Jazz as my 5th League Pass team--wish I would have had them tonight.
   380. rr Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:36 AM (#4301135)
Bernie Bickerstaff weighs in on the Lakers' coaching saga:

Bickerstaff: “When I talked to [D'Antoni], I told him to hurry up and come on in and get this seat so I can get some of these microphones out of my face.”
   381. Tripon Posted: November 13, 2012 at 03:44 AM (#4301145)
I'm sure Bickerstaff is happy. Jackson would have brought in his own guys and fire the current staff. At least this way, Bickerstaff has a job until the end of the season.
   382. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 07:57 AM (#4301156)
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but between Satan and Pringles the Lakers will have, by far, the best/most interesting coach-player post-game interview duo in a longtime. While I want to see them win I fear they can only truly tap into their potential if they lose. If there was a way to add Cashman as the GM and Mike Mussina as...team puzzlist...it would be perfect.
   383. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: November 13, 2012 at 10:04 AM (#4301195)
Apparently, Pelton answered my Millsap question (on twitter) an hour or two before I asked it. Ummm, do I owe you a Coke?
   384. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: November 13, 2012 at 11:43 AM (#4301281)
The Spurs were the best regular season team each of the last two years

Dammit, you cannot take this away from me. It was the Bulls both years. Bulls were one game better in 10-11 (and they split the season series) and they were tied last year, but Bulls won the only head to head matchup. In advanced stats, Bulls had the better SRS both years, too (although the Heat 1st in the league in 10-11 by this).

And the reason I'm still living in the past here is games like last night. The C's really exposed the Bulls' defense in the first half, and that started with Rondo on Robinson, and the Celtics did everything they could to get Boozer involved in the defensive play (screens mostly) and it consistently ended up with open shots. Bulls made a nice run late, but couldn't tie it because of missed FT's, horrible offense possessions (this is Teague's fault*) and defensive breakdowns that gave the C's like 3 dunks in the last minutes (2 oops to KG and one wide open one to Bass).

*So NateRob was closing games even when Hinrich was starting. Then NateRob starts because of the Hinrich injury, and Teague - who's only played in 2 previous games - plays almost the entire 4th quarter. WTF, Thibs? I am all for getting him experience, but he's not NBA ready yet, and if last night was him trying for a win - and I'd think a 3 point game with 5 mins left and one where Deng plays over 45 minutes definitely it - then playing Teague down the stretch, no matter how much Robinson was struggling, is just asking for a loss.

---

Back to the Spurs for a minute. I don't see why they're any better than either of the last 2 years. The best players are all older, and a big part of their regular season advantage is their depth - which is somewhat negated in the playoffs (as much as it pains me as a Bulls fan to admit that). I'm not sure any of their guys are elite anymore (Manu probably is, but the lack of minutes diminishes that somewhat). In fact, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think the Clippers are more likely to come out of a "open" West than the Spurs, just because of Paul and Griffin. It has been amazing to watch the Spurs transform into an elite offensive team, but I think a lot of that is helped by their bench and has hurt their defense at the same time.
   385. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4301310)
Edit: Yep, Utes won NCAA title in 1944 and NIT championship (whatever that is) in 1947.


I gather that the NIT was a much bigger deal than the NCAAs back then, actually. Up until, maybe, the early to mid-'50s, even.
   386. Spivey Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:15 PM (#4301320)
Back to the Spurs for a minute. I don't see why they're any better than either of the last 2 years. The best players are all older, and a big part of their regular season advantage is their depth - which is somewhat negated in the playoffs (as much as it pains me as a Bulls fan to admit that). I'm not sure any of their guys are elite anymore (Manu probably is, but the lack of minutes diminishes that somewhat). In fact, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think the Clippers are more likely to come out of a "open" West than the Spurs, just because of Paul and Griffin. It has been amazing to watch the Spurs transform into an elite offensive team, but I think a lot of that is helped by their bench and has hurt their defense at the same time.

I don't think the Spurs are better than last year, but I don't think they have to be in order to be legit contenders. The Spurs stomped the Clippers in the playoffs last year (after sweeping Utah). Duncan and Parker may not be elite but they're at least borderline all-stars. Neal, Danny Green, Leonard, and Splitter all took steps forward last season and look like they could do it again this year.

Having depth doesn't matter as much in the playoffs, but I don't think it matters as little as people seem to say either. Bench and role players are going to still be playing a lot of minutes for almost every team and it is important that those minutes are good. A big reason Miami lost 2 years ago in the Finals is because the role players sucked, and a big reason OKC lost last year is because everyone besides Durant and Westbrook struggled.
   387. Booey Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:30 PM (#4301345)
You know, Booey, I almost picked the Jazz as my 5th League Pass team--wish I would have had them tonight.


While it's hard for me to look past my fanboyism when it comes to the Jazz, I do think they should be an entertaining team to watch this season, even from an impartial POV. We've got a fun blend of exciting youngens and in prime vets, and while I don't expect them to win 50 games or make it past the first round, I'm sure gonna enjoy watching them try. I'm actually more excited about this season than I have been in years.
   388. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4301352)
While it's hard for me to look past my fanboyism when it comes to the Jazz, I do think they should be an entertaining team to watch this season, even from an impartial POV. We've got a fun blend of exciting youngens and in prime vets, and while I don't expect them to win 50 games or make it past the first round, I'm sure gonna enjoy watching them try. I'm actually more excited about this season than I have been in years.

Booey, how do you feel about dealing with one or both of Milsap and Jefferson? As an unbiased fan of the game (and biased fantasy owner of Kanter and Favors in most of my leagues) I think I would want at least one of them gone since they're not going to be a part of the proverbial next great Jazz team. Might as well collect some assets for them while handing over FT jobs and greater opportunity for development to two extremely promising bigs.
   389. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4301371)
Having depth doesn't matter as much in the playoffs, but I don't think it matters as little as people seem to say either. Bench and role players are going to still be playing a lot of minutes for almost every team and it is important that those minutes are good. A big reason Miami lost 2 years ago in the Finals is because the role players sucked, and a big reason OKC lost last year is because everyone besides Durant and Westbrook struggled.

As I think I'm learning the hard way, the role players are only playing that many minutes because the top players aren't or can't. As much as I like guys like Neal or Green, if they're playing minutes instead of Parker or Ginobli in the playoffs it's not a good thing. The Heat 2 years ago lost because of whatever happened to LeBron more than anything, and the Thunder lost last year for the same reason (LeBron). I don't think either occurrence is an argument in favor for any of the non top 3 teams this year; IOW, the Spurs or Bulls or whoever at their best aren't beating the Lakers or Thunder or Heat at their best. So in order for any other team to win, they need to beat at least 2 of those teams not at their best.
   390. Booey Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4301440)
Booey, how do you feel about dealing with one or both of Milsap and Jefferson? As an unbiased fan of the game (and biased fantasy owner of Kanter and Favors in most of my leagues) I think I would want at least one of them gone since they're not going to be a part of the proverbial next great Jazz team. Might as well collect some assets for them while handing over FT jobs and greater opportunity for development to two extremely promising bigs.


This is kind of the elephant in the room for Jazz fans this season; as much as I love Paul and Al - and my favorite lineup is when Corbin goes big with Favors/Millsap/Jefferson as the front line - it seems impossible that at least one of Millsap and Jefferson won't have to go soon. We've got too big of a logjam with bigs and Favors and Kanter definitely need more minutes to continue their development. Al and Paul are still probably our two best players now, but both have been the same guys for a few years now, so neither seems likely to take another step forward. They are what they are, and what they are isn't going to win you more than 45-50 games, tops. If Favors or Kanter have even an outside shot at being better than that (and I think Favors totally does), then you've got to take the chance.

If I had to pick, I'd rather Jefferson was sent packing than Millsap. Paul makes less money and he's been a Jazzman since the beginning, and I'm all for team/player loyalty. With Al gone, I'd move Favors into the starting lineup at center, and Kanter can get more minutes backing up both the C and PF positions. Millsap could even get some minutes at the 3 when Marvin Williams sits so Corbin could still run a big lineup at times with Favors/Millsap/Kanter as our front line.

My only concern is that we won't get equal value if we traded Jefferson. His defense is limited, obviously, but he's still one of the best offensive centers in the league (19.2 pts, 9.6 boards last year), and true back-to-the-basket post up centers like him just don't grow on trees anymore. Put him on a team like the Spurs or Celtics that have a big PF that can anchor the defense so Al doesn't have to, and I think he could be a very valuable player to a fringe contender. And we shouldn't give up someone like that for cheap. I'd like to see us use him as tradebait to improve our guardline, but only if we don't panic and jump at an inferior offer.
   391. Spivey Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4301454)
I think the Spurs can beat Oklahoma City at their best - I think they're equal teams, essentially. Beyond that... guys get in foul trouble. Guys can suck in a series (Wade certainly did in the finals lat year. Guys can miss a game or two or three without missing the entire playoffs (see last year with Bosh).

Even the best guys are only playing like 38-40 minutes a game. Yeah, that's a lot, but there's still about a quarter's worth of minutes going to backups for each of those positions, not to mention the other lesser starters many contenders have, and their backups.
   392. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:47 PM (#4301495)
D'antoni over Jackson:
Following his team’s surprising decision not to hire Phil Jackson as its new head coach, Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak told reporters Tuesday that Mike D’Antoni had won the job by sending an incredibly polished, well-written, and far superior cover letter. “Mike really blew us away when he described his 10 years of NBA head coaching experience and his specific ideas for improving our offense,” said Kupchak, adding that the former Knicks coach also included Steve Nash, Mike Krzyzewski, and Steve Kerr as professional references, while Jackson’s letter was only a half page of double-spaced text containing numerous typos. “Frankly, Phil didn’t put a whole lot of effort into his application. In the skills section, he just wrote ‘superior communication abilities’ and ‘thriving in a fast-paced environment,’ which don’t really mean anything. Also, I think he repurposed an old letter, because it was addressed to a ‘Mr. Krause.’”
   393. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: November 13, 2012 at 04:20 PM (#4301594)
I think the Spurs can beat Oklahoma City at their best - I think they're equal teams, essentially.

And I don't, which is the heart of the discussion. It's also too early in the season for me to change my mind, also, although I'm not sure anything that's happened so far changes that (although it's closer than before the Harden trade, for sure). So I guess we pick this back up in April?
   394. Jimmy P Posted: November 13, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4301645)
D'antoni over Jackson:


Phil has played this perfectly. I kind of get the feeling he didn't want to do it, but he asked for the moon, the stars, and part of the sun. Knowing full well, that if he didn't get it, the media would hammer the Lakers and not criticize him at all. Which is exactly whats happened
   395. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: November 13, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4301676)
hakim warrick traded for matt carroll
   396. andrewberg Posted: November 13, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4301678)
It's almost hard to tell whose side leaked NJ's quote from 392. If the Lakers' side leaked it, they sound like damn fools for thinking that Jackson needed a cover letter. If Jackson leaked it, it would be a pretty hilarious way to paint his adversaries as petty.
   397. rr Posted: November 13, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4301687)
That is an Onion link--are you being third-level sarcastic?
   398. rr Posted: November 13, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4301690)
hakim warrick traded for matt carroll


Talk about a move with repercussions.

Steve Blake will miss tonight's game against SA, so Morris starts at the 1. Also, the D'Antoni hire has started the Pau trade spec machine up again.
   399. andrewberg Posted: November 13, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4301692)
That is an Onion link--are you being third-level sarcastic?


Nope, never clicked on the link and thought the caption sounded plausible. I guess I need to recalibrate my expectations from the Buss family.

I'm very disappointed that it wasn't real.
   400. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 13, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4301693)
hakim warrick traded for matt carroll
2 philly natives passing in the night.
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