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Friday, October 05, 2018

OT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom knew the old thread would get closed, thus detracting from what this site is really about: the baseball playoffs, maybe?

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 05, 2018 at 03:43 PM | 3782 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   2501. Booey Posted: November 17, 2018 at 09:35 PM (#5788919)
Flip
   2502. PJ Martinez Posted: November 17, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5788920)
kemba walker should definitely think twice before fouling jimmy butler's elbow with his chin again.
Walker now sitting on 58 points.

Edit: And Butler bricks the iso jumper at the buzzer. Overtime.
   2503. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 17, 2018 at 09:50 PM (#5788921)
the sixers have played:
18 games (most in the league)
10 road games (tied with BRK/ATL/UTA for most in the league)
5 back to backs (most in the league)
4 OT games (most in the league)

this is too ####### much.
   2504. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 17, 2018 at 09:51 PM (#5788922)
Edit: And Butler bricks the iso jumper at the buzzer. Overtime.
yet, still a massive improvement over last year.
   2505. PJ Martinez Posted: November 17, 2018 at 09:53 PM (#5788923)
I wonder if Butler took it personally when someone told him that was a terrible shot.

Edit: And then Butler made me eat crow with a huge block on Walker, followed by the game-winning three.
   2506. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 17, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5788924)
A. MASSIVE. #######. IMPROVEMENT!!!!!
   2507. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 17, 2018 at 10:01 PM (#5788925)
also, villanova lost to something called "furman", which personally, is a name that i find offensive. it should be "furperson", or maybe "furson". it's 2018. women can also #### while cosplaying as the phillie phrenetic.


anyway, apparently jay wright's #### does not work when he loses his 4 best players to the NBA.


also: the sixers are 3-0 vs. CHA this year, with two of the games going to OT, and a combined margin of victory of 6.
   2508. JC in DC Posted: November 17, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5788926)
40 points for AD tonight, with 20 made FTs. The refs love him as much as we do.
   2509. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 17, 2018 at 10:13 PM (#5788929)
also:
4 of the sixers' 7 losses have been road back to backs (@MIL by 15, @TOR by 17, @BRK by 25, @MEM by 6(in OT)). the other 3 losses:
season opener @BOS
OT @DET
jimmy butler's first game @ORL

the sixers are 8-0 at home, the only team still undefeated.
   2510. spivey Posted: November 17, 2018 at 10:19 PM (#5788930)
Going into tonight, the 76ers SRS was negative.
   2511. Booey Posted: November 17, 2018 at 10:24 PM (#5788931)
Much better game for Mitchell tonight, and a much needed win for the Jazz after blowing a winnable one to 57i66135's squad last night and losing to Dallas by 50 on Wednesday. It's gravy that it happened to come against Goodwill Heffalump and the C's. Spida's block on his dunk attempt was porn to my eyes. Mrs Booey made sure to point out that he's still pretty cute though, so he's got that going for him, I suppose.

Man, I want the Jazz to pick up Kemba this offseason soooooo badly...
   2512. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 17, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5788932)
Man, I want the Jazz to pick up Kemba this offseason soooooo badly...
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAhA
Going into tonight, the 76ers SRS was negative.
but their underlying fundamentals are strong.
   2513. Booey Posted: November 17, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5788933)
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAhA



Sigh...I know. The same teams that are always in the running for everybody will be the ones in the running for him too. That's why I'm pretty much just a Jazz fan at this point rather than an NBA fan whose favorite team is the Jazz.
   2514. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: November 17, 2018 at 10:27 PM (#5788934)
I see the Barmeys tool their frustration out on the Bulls tonight.
   2515. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 17, 2018 at 10:28 PM (#5788935)
Sigh...I know.
you can probably get patrick beverley if you offer 25MM per year.
   2516. Booey Posted: November 17, 2018 at 10:32 PM (#5788936)
you can probably get patrick beverley if you offer 25MM per year.


Sounds about right.
   2517. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 17, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5788940)
Hot take: Utah is going to be fine.
   2518. Booey Posted: November 17, 2018 at 11:09 PM (#5788941)
"Fine", yes. It'd be nice to be a player in free agency for once though and have an equal chance to be more than "fine."

More realistic possibilities I hope the Jazz are targeting include Tobias Harris or Nikola Mirotic. Both allegedly expressed interest in playing for the Jazz last year around the trade deadline when their names were floated around as options, so that might not be too far fetched. But I think a lot depends on Utah getting and staying ahead of the Clips and Pellies to show that they're closer to winning a title than their current teams are. Since being competitive is basically all they have to offer free agents, this up and down season the Jazz are having is going to be a killer to their chances if they can't pull it together.
   2519. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 18, 2018 at 10:12 AM (#5788962)
the sixers have played:
18 games (most in the league)
10 road games (tied with BRK/ATL/UTA for most in the league)
5 back to backs (most in the league)
4 OT games (most in the league)

this is too ####### much.
oh, and they went to china for like 5 days about a week before the season opener.

they've played one game for every 44 hours since the start of the season. even in the ####### lockout year where everyone played 66 games in 120 days, that was only one game every 46 hours.

this really is ####### insane.
   2520. JC in DC Posted: November 18, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5788966)
It really isn't insane. They've played a comparable schedule to everyone else. The 5 OT games is on them. They've played 2 whole more games than most teams, and 1 game more than a few others. Take a deep breath and have a slice of pie.
   2521. Booey Posted: November 18, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5788971)
These things balance out. If the Sixers have played more games than anyone else so far, it just means they'll play fewer games than anyone else going forward. The Jazz play 21 of their first 33 games on the road. That might suck for their early record (although thus far they've played better away), but it means they'll have a chance to catch up with a home heavy schedule down the stretch.
   2522. Tin Angel Posted: November 18, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5788981)
Why is the league always out to get the Sixers, forcing them to play those overtime games and an extra game than most other teams so far? It's like a conspiracy to discredit the process!
   2523. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 18, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5788990)
It really isn't insane. They've played a comparable schedule to everyone else. The 5 OT games is on them. They've played 2 whole more games than most teams, and 1 game more than a few others. Take a deep breath and have a slice of pie.
the sixers are the only team that's played 18 games.
half the league has played 15 games, or fewer.
5 road back to backs in one month is insane.
4 OT games, yeah that's on them, but it's still ####### insane.

add in that they flew to china and back a week before the start of the season...yeah, again that's on them, but it's still insane.
   2524. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: November 18, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5788995)
the sixers are the only team that's played 18 games.
half the league has played 15 games, or fewer.


And this has made such a huge difference that none of the four teams with fewer than 15 games played is ahead of them in the standings. (Unless you consider 9-5 to be ahead of 11-7.)

Also, they have 6 games in 13 days for the rest of this month; five of them are at home, and five are against teams with at least 10 losses already. Their next back-to-back isn't until December 16-17, and that's the only one for the month.

And as a bonus, they just got Butler, so he hasn't suffered through most of the early schedule like the rest of the team has.
   2525. smileyy Posted: November 18, 2018 at 09:02 PM (#5789062)
We're pretty sure LeBron is a robot, right?
   2526. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: November 18, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5789073)
Much better game for Mitchell tonight, and a much needed win for the Jazz after blowing a winnable one to 57i66135's squad last night and losing to Dallas by 50 on Wednesday. It's gravy that it happened to come against Goodwill Heffalump and the C's. Spida's block on his dunk attempt was porn to my eyes. Mrs Booey made sure to point out that he's still pretty cute though, so he's got that going for him, I suppose.

Man, I want the Jazz to pick up Kemba this offseason soooooo badly...


Agreed on everything. I keep thinking about trying to trade for Kemba now too, but no way Jazz can take back one of the Hornets awful contracts unless Kemba either signs or promises to re-sign, which obviously isn't happening. Assuming he'll get a max offer from a better market, I'd be happy with either Tobias or Middleton. They desperately need another player who can create for themselves. Sometimes I'm worried Donovan has some bad chucking tendencies, but he's also literally the only player that can create on the team, and they're asking him to do this for a playoff team while he's only in his second season (and to his credit, he never shies away from taking the desperation shot at the end of the shot clock or a quarter). If he doesn't show improved efficiency and more assists when (if) they actually get him real help on offense, I'll be a lot more worried.

It was great to see Rubio finally have another good game. I don't expect him to be as bad as he's been so far, but they really need him to play like last year again, because any slip could easily lead to them falling out of the playoffs as deep as the West is.
   2527. maccoach57 Posted: November 18, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5789074)
Liked the Lakers Showtime style unis and the Miami Vice unis.

Memphis won in in Minnesota and is now 10-5, as are the Clippers. The West now has 12 teams between 8-8 and 12-6. Don't know if that is unusual for this stage of the season or not.
   2528. Tin Angel Posted: November 18, 2018 at 09:44 PM (#5789075)
Time for the Warriors to blow it up.
   2529. Booey Posted: November 18, 2018 at 10:08 PM (#5789078)
Memphis won in in Minnesota and is now 10-5, as are the Clippers. The West now has 12 teams between 8-8 and 12-6. Don't know if that is unusual for this stage of the season or not.


While I don't expect the Kings or Mavs to still be close to .500 by the end of the year, it's possible that Phoenix might be the only legitimately terrible team in the West.
   2530. PJ Martinez Posted: November 18, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5789080)
A casual reminder that the Warriors have won 21 straight games when Steph Curry plays but Kevin Durant does not.
   2531. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: November 19, 2018 at 07:00 AM (#5789099)
[2530] Steph is so underrated.
   2532. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:51 AM (#5789109)
We're pretty sure LeBron is a robot, right?
male pattern baldness seems like a weird feature to build into a robot, so i'm gonna go with...nah.


just a reminder: if lebron had come to philly this summer, the sixers would have him, embiid, butler and simmons right now. ####.
   2533. Rally Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:55 AM (#5789111)
A casual reminder that the Warriors have won 21 straight games when Steph Curry plays but Kevin Durant does not.


If you think Curry/Thompson/Green is a good enough core to win a championship with (big stretch here, but they did win 73 games a few years back), and as great as Durant is, the fit is just not good right now. Let's say they are resigned to him leaving once the season is over.

What could they get if they trade him now? One thing that springs to mind is to the Celtics for the Kings draft pick, + either the Clippers or Grizzlies (both of which are protected and as of today would convey as 2019 mid to late first rounders.) But they'd have to take salary back to make it work, and that means either Horford or Heyward. Heyward right now would come with 2 years of contract beyond 2019, and not good enough right now to justify such a deal, even getting the picks. So it would have to be Horford, who would be a fine addition to the team for the rest of the year and either have one more year, or he opts out and is an expiring contract.

Such a deal all but guarantees a Warriors-Celtics finals, with Draymond targeting Durant's nuts for the championship. It would give GSW a chance to extend their window with some cheap young players to supplement the core. I doubt Ainge surrenders the draft picks though, unless he was 100% convinced he could resign Durant.
   2534. Rally Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:59 AM (#5789113)
We're pretty sure LeBron is a robot, right?


Robots can rust and break down, and parts wear out. Think of your car. Some of us might drive 2003 models with 200k+ miles, but even if it gets you around, is that car anything close to what it once was? Comparable to the newer models?

I think Lebron is some sort of elder elemental spirit.
   2535. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:01 AM (#5789114)
If you think Curry/Thompson/Green is a good enough core to win a championship with (big stretch here, but they did win 73 games a few years back), and as great as Durant is, the fit is just not good right now. Let's say they are resigned to him leaving once the season is over.

What could they get if they trade him now?
2171. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 13, 2018 at 06:34 PM (#5786922)
trade machine: who says no?

PHI: kevin durant, andre iguodala
GSW: jimmy butler, jj redick, markelle fultz
   2536. spivey Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:14 AM (#5789116)
[2530] Steph is so underrated.


He's definitely a better fit with that team. I'm not sure Steph + Westbrook + usual OKC role players would have been better.

It's worth acknowledging, too, that Draymond's been out too, Iguodala is getting worse every year and their role players are probably legitimately the worst they've been during the whole run, and the off-court stuff did happen and does seem to be affecting them.

--

Dallas has beaten some very good teams at home already, including a few in pretty impressive fashion. That's a tough place to play. Doncic is averaging 19.5 points on a 58 TS%. He's going to be really good.
   2537. spivey Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:21 AM (#5789119)
LeBron is so magical. Even when he's not putting up huge scoring lines, he reads the court so well and makes the right play so frequently. His little skip passes don't seem like much, because he does it so often and makes it look effortless, but his ability to get you at least a solid shot down court every time is remarkable. Also, given he's not a good free throw shooter and he's inconsistent from 3, I was surprised to see that the last 10 years his TS% is .609. That's really good.

Oh by the way, Steph is at .681 this year, was .675 last year, and was .669 in the 73 win year.
   2538. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:35 AM (#5789125)
Iguodala is getting worse every year

Yeah that $17 million for next year doesn't look great.
   2539. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 10:49 AM (#5789148)
I haven't seen much of Detroit, but man, Blake is having a year. I can't help but expect he'll get hurt any day now, but I hope he can keep it together.

Also good god SVG did a bad job as GM. That roster is... gross.
   2540. Tin Angel Posted: November 19, 2018 at 12:10 PM (#5789174)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Story on ESPN: Wizards signaling a willingness to consider trade overtures on entire roster, including All-Star guards John Wall and Bradley Beal.
   2541. JJ1986 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5789180)
Story on ESPN: Wizards signaling a willingness to consider trade overtures on entire roster, including All-Star guards John Wall and Bradley Beal.

Suggestion.
   2542. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5789181)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Story on ESPN: Wizards signaling a willingness to consider trade overtures on entire roster, including All-Star guards John Wall and Bradley Beal.

Beal would be an easy fit most anywhere, but looking at the possible playoff teams, the ones taking the fewest 3s per game are (from fewest to most):

- Spurs
- Clippers
- Pacers
- Grizzlies
- Pelicans
- Warriors
- Nuggets
- Lakers

I'll stop there. He's a perfect LeBron teammate, isn't he? In that he's a good shooter but can also provide some secondary playmaking.

EDIT: Wow it's impossible to make a Lakers trade for another few weeks, until the recently signed guys are trade eligible.
   2543. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5789182)
Suggestion.

Ugh, that's good and would make the Sixers scary. I don't see why Washington would need to take on any negative value though (meaning Fultz), given how reasonable Beal's contract is in the current structure.
   2544. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 19, 2018 at 12:34 PM (#5789183)
How is Scott Brooks still employed? Not that it's his fault necessarily, but he's certainly not done much to keep his job.
   2545. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: November 19, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5789187)
Real Plus-Minus is out. I love how awful sorting through it is on ESPN's site.

Anyway, Blake Griffin is 30th in RPM, the next best Piston is 127th. Fun fun fun.
   2546. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 19, 2018 at 12:51 PM (#5789189)
ESPN's lack of interest in presenting in a halfway reasonable fashion or archiving data is near scandalous.
Oh! Also their mobile experience is beyond trash.
   2547. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: November 19, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5789191)
My preseason predictions included that Beal would be dealt to the Sixers, so maybe I should stick with that, but who says no to this trade?

SAC: Beal, Mahinmi's bad 2-year contract, Thomas Bryant
WAS: Skal, the expiring contracts of Z-Bo, Shump & Koufos, protected 2021 1st rounder, a couple 2nd rounders

The Wizards save huge sums of money this year getting out of the tax (more than $20 million) and open up near-max cap room this summer. They can also begin tanking in earnest this year (though it's hard to argue they weren't doing that last night from what I saw: trailing by 30 in the 3rd at home while showing minimal effort or focus).

The Kings add Beal to their 25-and-under core of Fox, Hield, WCS, and Bagley. Losing their cap space this summer isn't that big a deal, as they can never seem to get free agents to take their money.
   2548. . . . . . . Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5789193)
Real Plus-Minus is out. I love how awful sorting through it is on ESPN's site.

Anyway, Blake Griffin is 30th in RPM, the next best Piston is 127th. Fun fun fun.


Frank N. is 86th out of 90 PGs, just below Austin Rivers and just above the two rookies, Trae Young and Collin Sexton.

I'm sorry, but Frank sucks. It's getting late early for him.
   2549. JC in DC Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5789194)
Scott Brooks? Why on earth is Ernie still employed? I posted that a week or so ago, and it still makes no sense.
   2550. JC in DC Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5789195)
(1) Frank is literally 7 months older than Sexton. Is Sexton going to suck? Is it late for him?
(2) You may be right anyway. He's not playing much at all. It's all Mudiay and Burke the last few games.
   2551. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:18 PM (#5789196)
Ugh, that's good and would make the Sixers scary. I don't see why Washington would need to take on any negative value though (meaning Fultz), given how reasonable Beal's contract is in the current structure.
markelle fultz is not bad value. his contract lasts one more year, and WAS will be terrible and capped out whether he's on their roster, or not.

also, i'd prefer something like this instead:
PHI: beal, markieff, jeff green
WAS: wilson chandler, fultz, muscala, patton, picks
Frank N. is 86th out of 90 PGs, just below Austin Rivers and just above the two rookies, Trae Young and Collin Sexton.

I'm sorry, but Frank sucks. It's getting late early for him.
among centers:
21: javale mcgee
22: damian jones
23: ian mahinmi
24: zaza pachulia
25: karl anthony-towns
   2552. . . . . . . Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5789197)
(1) Frank is literally 7 months older than Sexton. Is Sexton going to suck? Is it late for him?


Age and experience are not the same, and both count. One of the reason I think RPM has value, despite occasionally head-scratching output, is that it does a damn good job of sorting rookies down near the bottom of the ranking. That's consistent with what I think to be true: that rookies are less valuable than their stats suggest while they figure out what the #### is happening and why everyone is so much faster and better than they're used to.

Separately, obviously most guys improve with age during their early 20s.

Frank is surrounded in the rankings by rookies and guys perceived to lack 'real' NBA raw talent, guys like Austin Rivers and Frank Mason. Its inexcusable for a lottery pick with as much experience as he's had to be down with the dregs and the newbs. And RPM should be more friendly to Frank's skillset than other metrics.
   2553. . . . . . . Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5789198)
among centers:
21: javale mcgee
22: damian jones
23: ian mahinmi
24: zaza pachulia
25: karl anthony-towns


You left out #19, Mitchell Robinson, praised be his name.
   2554. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5789203)
markelle fultz is not bad value. his contract lasts one more year

Of course he is. He's owed just shy of $10 million next year, and his cap hold is $12.2 the following year.
   2555. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:30 PM (#5789207)
Of course he is. He's owed just shy of $10 million next year, and his cap hold is $12.2 the following year.
(jerryd bayless)
   2556. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5789210)
(jerryd bayless)

is on an expiring this year. And was presumably untradeable until that was the case.
   2557. GregD Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5789211)
I wonder what Fultz's value is at this point. How much of a favorable salary present or future would you have to get in return to be willing to take him on?

I assume he has some value. If the Sixers waived him, someone would pick him up on minimum. But how much beyond that?
   2558. billyshears Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:41 PM (#5789214)
Here was Frank's line from last night:

22 mins, 0-1 FGA, 0-0 3PA, 0-0 FTA, 2 Rebs, 2 Asts, 1 Stl, 0 BLks, 0 pts

Now, I didn't see the game and he was +10 in a game the Knicks lost by 14, so maybe his defense was quietly transcendent, but seriously, what the hell was he doing out there? This is an extreme example, but it's not too far off from his average game. He just doesn't yet assert himself in any way - he's not aggressively trying to score, or create for others, or defend, or rebound. He's a high-effort defender who just kind of melts into the offense. He's young, and I think he has talent and work ethic, so I still think he will be ok, but it's hard for me to get too fussed about him being pulled from the starting lineup and having his minutes reduced a bit when's he's so intentionally low impact. He does need to play to develop, but 22 mins/night doesn't seem too far off to me when this is what his game looks like.
   2559. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:51 PM (#5789223)
why has ntilikina never done a stint in westchester? you want him more aggressive on o, give him some reps there.
--
incidentally, he never scored much or had many assists in europe either.
   2560. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 19, 2018 at 01:56 PM (#5789226)
i'd give fultz a few mil as a fa. good d and youneverknow if some o will come back. i think he has negative value on his current deal though.
   2561. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 19, 2018 at 02:21 PM (#5789236)
Fultz seems like he's probably too hands-on for most teams to want as a salary piece in a trade, and too expensive for most teams to want as a project. If he were cut tomorrow I'm sure there are several teams that would vie to get him on a cheap, probably incentive-laden deal, but if you're getting him as an important 12m in a trade, you'd have to also be willing to invest in the coaching/training/therapy it's going to take to right the ship there. I'm not saying that team doesn't exist, but it's going to limit your options in who willingly takes the contract in a trade. It also would seem to more or less guarantee that, should you manage to get him fixed enough to be good but not a star, you won't be able to retain him at anything but an expensive rate.

I'm sure there are some teams in the league that would love to have a go at fixing Fultz, but it seems much easier for them to just wait until the Sixers cut bait and then get him on the cheap and build his value back up. With Butler in house, Fultz seems like he's on the wrong timeline for the Sixers, so why not just wait?
   2562. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5789246)
link
There appears to be a substantial disconnect between the Sacramento Kings’ front office and head coach Dave Joerger pertaining to the franchise’s priorities and direction, sources told Yahoo Sports.
...
Joerger’s handling of 2018 No. 2 overall pick Marvin Bagley III could eventually lead to the coach’s dismissal, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
considering how well it worked out for kings management when they fired their last competent head coach, i'm sure they'll get the benefit of the doubt if they wind up firing joerger.
   2563. aberg Posted: November 19, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5789255)
I'm sure there are some teams in the league that would love to have a go at fixing Fultz, but it seems much easier for them to just wait until the Sixers cut bait and then get him on the cheap and build his value back up.


I think you're right about that. Also, the teams who I would expect to have a chance to help fix him (SA, MIA, maybe LAC, maybe HOU) are too good to give big minutes to someone who is a big project. Of course, the reason I have faith in them is that they are usually good, which means they're not in a position to let him work through it. There are teams who would be wise to take a chance on his potential, even at those dollar figures, but they're the trainwreck teams who probably couldn't help him (CLE, PHX). Maybe BKN or ATL would take a shot, but they both have plenty of on-ball guys already.
   2564. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 02:57 PM (#5789257)
It might take you a minute to register that what you’re seeing isn’t just the odd inert isolation possession but rather an entire poisoned way of being; it’s the only thing that links them together, in fact. When the action directly implicates an individual Wizard, at either end of the floor, he jolts to sluggish half-attention for a few seconds; when the ball moves away, he reverts to flat-footed stasis immediately, as though unplugged from a wall socket
...
what’s made screechingly apparent every time they take the court is that even if anybody does feel that way, whoever he is, he does not have the credibility to make anybody else give a ####. (Probably not unrelated: 10 of the 16 players currently under contract will be free agents next summer—hilariously, they still won’t have any significant space under the salary cap—in another anti-cohesion masterwork by the team’s intractable personnel honcho, Ernie Grunfeld.)
link
   2565. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5789258)
Joerger’s handling of 2018 No. 2 overall pick Marvin Bagley III could eventually lead to the coach’s dismissal, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Bagley is averaging 22.6 mpg, it's not like he's not playing. Giles's minutes look low, but he's presumably being ramped back up post-injury/is made of glass. Also maybe don't employ like 9 big men if you're concerned about minutes allocation?
   2566. aberg Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5789259)
Why is it that Sacto only fires coaches when the team actually starts playing well?
   2567. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5789273)
God, those poor Kings fan.
   2568. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5789275)
If there were a better coach and GM in place, I'd have been happy to take Fultz on the Wolves, as a second-draft project.
   2569. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:31 PM (#5789277)
fultz is not nearly as broken as you people think he is. his defense is good; he's capable of getting to, and finishing at, the rim; he has a 2.5:1 AST:TOV ratio; he's averaging 13, 6 and 5 per 36 minutes; he's (arguably) the best offensive rebounding guard in the league right now.

most of you people seen fultz 3 times this year: once when he clanked a 3, once when he double clutched a FT and once when he juggled the ball leading into a FT. here are some other examples that have not maanged to go viral:
cuts through 5 guys and dunks
grabs a defensive rebound, then dribbles end to end for a layup at the other end...and the next play where he takes an inbounds coast to coast for a layup with 6 seconds left in the quarter...and the next one where he dribbles through the lane, then finds an open shooter at the 3P line.
how about here, where he finishes over jaren jackson and kyle anderson.
sonning garrett temple.
here's a nice drive and dish...he draws three defenders, then offloads the ball to a wide open amir johnson under the rim.
these two are fun...first he beats donovan mitchell off a pick and roll, then he finishes over (and through) rudy gobert at the rim...next, he tracks down his own missed FT with 5 seconds left in a quarter, and feeds jimmy butler for an and-1.
   2570. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5789282)
He's expensive as hell for a guard who can't shoot. Full stop.
   2571. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:38 PM (#5789284)
"Can't shoot" is the most generous description of Fultz possible.

EDIT: But honestly, a hearty round of applause for taking the time to link to a clip of Fultz beating Garrett Temple. THE Garrett Temple.
   2572. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5789285)
The minutes Bagley could be getting were going to Belly - who has been off to a fantastic start (21st in the league RPM), but is also 30 and signed to be a role player.
Having said that - the roster construction on this team is weird and Joerger (who I think is a below average NBA coach) has done a nice job of making these pieces work this season.
   2573. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5789287)
He's expensive as hell for a guard who can't shoot. Full stop.
tell that to rajon rondo, marcus smart, john wall, russell westbrook, kris dunn, ricky rubio, iman shumpert, and on, and on.
   2574. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5789288)
EDIT: But honestly, a hearty round of applause for taking the time to link to a clip of Fultz beating Garrett Temple. THE Garrett Temple.
(i thought it was mike conley the first time i saw it)
   2575. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5789292)
they are better shooters than fultz at this point, on average.
they aren't worth fultz's salary at this point either, on average.
   2576. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5789295)
specifically, fultz is shooting 28% for his career from beyond three feet. (48-170)
the only non rookie point guard in the league with a lower orpm is frank n. (min 150 minutes)
   2577. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5789301)
We're in a weird place now that Markelle Fultz, #1 overall pick less than two years ago, now wears the mantle previously proudly carried by Jahlil Okafor and Jerryd Bayless as Non-NBA Player Getting Paid Real NBA Money By the Sixers That STIGGLES Relentlessly Pretends Everyone Wants In A Trade.
   2578. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5789305)
We're in a weird place now that Markelle Fultz, #1 overall pick less than two years ago, now wears the mantle previously proudly carried by Jahlil Okafor and Jerryd Bayless as Non-NBA Player Getting Paid Real NBA Money By the Sixers That STIGGLES Relentlessly Pretends Everyone Wants In A Trade.

I don't have any insight into how front offices see it, but to my eye, Fultz is by far the most intriguing asset of the three, because shooting is the one skill you can largely delegate to the rest of the roster. That said, the smaller the player's position, the more awkward it becomes to fill out the rest of the roster around them, and I don't think Fultz is likely to ever reach the kind of MVP-level slashing and passing skillset that would justify that kind of bespoke roster construction.
   2579. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5789306)
agree on all of that
   2580. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5789307)
specifically, fultz is shooting 28% for his career from beyond three feet. (48-170)
the only non rookie point guard in the league with a lower orpm is frank n. (min 150 minutes)
this is kind of ironic, but fultz is surprisingly decent at making jump shots from around the FT line.
We're in a weird place now that Markelle Fultz, #1 overall pick less than two years ago, now wears the mantle previously proudly carried by Jahlil Okafor and Jerryd Bayless as Non-NBA Player Getting Paid Real NBA Money By the Sixers That STIGGLES Relentlessly Pretends Everyone Wants In A Trade.
for the record, okafor and bayless (and nerlens noel, luwawu caberrot, james anderson and nik stauskas...and i could go on...) all wound up getting traded, so yeah, fultz is tradable. this is not a discussion. move on. find anus lant.
   2581. spivey Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5789308)
I'm going to the Milwaukee/Denver game tonight, and I'm really stoked. I like the pieces around Jokic and I'm excited to see a bunch of guys for the first time.
   2582. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5789311)
for the record, okafor and bayless (and nerlens noel, luwawu caberrot, james anderson and nik stauskas...and i could go on...) all wound up getting traded, so yeah, fultz is tradable. this is not a discussion. move on. find anus lant.

Yeah, the fact that all of them were traded for a hill of beans, combined, doesn't exactly support your point.

---

Goldsberry's weekly efficiency landscape plot. Bucks continue to look really, really good.
   2583. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5789314)
During the Celtics/Raptors game the other night, the broadcast mentioned that Kawhi had more career steals than personal fouls, which floored me. I looked into who else pulled this off, and it's these ten players (among players with more than 100 steals):

Player          Steals Fouls
Jason Kidd      
2684   2572
Maurice Cheeks  
2310   2258
Mookie Blaylock 
2075   1687
Allen Iverson   
1983   1777
Gus Williams    
1638   1637
Don Buse        
1160   967
Lester Conner   
1085   1036
Kawhi Leonard   
745    722
<Active Player> | 727    672 

Props to Gus Williams for making it; in his final season he had 17 steals to 53 fouls, juuuuust maintaining his place. Anyone care to guess which other active player is currently pulling off this feat?
   2584. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5789318)
Yeah, the fact that all of them were traded for a hill of beans, combined, doesn't exactly support your point.

yeah, it pretty much does since my point is that fultz is salary ballast. the reason why i only talk about trading him (and okafor and noel before him) for legitimately good players isn't because i think he adds value to the deal, it's because i don't want to give up on him unless it's in a trade that significantly improves the team.
   2585. spivey Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5789320)
Re: 2583: I just looked it up. What's extremely impressive about Kawhi and that guy doing it is that they're doing it while usually guarding the best guy on the other team. Kawhi is so frickin good.

Also, I think I may be ready to embrace the Bucks as second-tier contenders. I don't think they match up well against Boston or Golden State, but they match up decently well against Toronto.
   2586. GregD Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5789321)
yeah, it pretty much does since my point is that fultz is salary ballast. the reason why i only talk about trading him (and okafor and noel before him) for legitimately good players isn't because i think he adds value to the deal, it's because i don't want to give up on him unless it's in a trade that significantly improves the team.
Totally makes sense and probably is what the Sixers should do....but then there's no point talking about trading him at all, since he's likely going to get in return either a contract dump or a problem player at this point.
   2587. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:47 PM (#5789323)
I love the top end of the East this year.
   2588. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:47 PM (#5789325)
Yeeeesss, it's happening:
Shams Charania ‏@ShamsCharania
Sources on @TheAthleticNBA @WatchStadium: The Washington Wizards had a volatile practice within recent days, with verbal altercations among players and an exasperated Bradley Beal saying toward team officials: "I've been dealing with this for seven years."
   2589. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5789328)
What's extremely impressive about Kawhi and that guy doing it is that they're doing it while usually guarding the best guy on the other team. Kawhi is so frickin good.

Yeah, the thing that is most impressive to me is that the two current players are the biggest two on the list, which is basically them and a mess of point guards. (I guess Lester Conner was a shooting guard, but according to wikipedia was large PG sized.)
   2590. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5789330)
Shams Charania ‏@ShamsCharania
Sources on @TheAthleticNBA @WatchStadium: The Washington Wizards had a volatile practice within recent days, with verbal altercations among players and an exasperated Bradley Beal saying toward team officials: "I've been dealing with this for seven years."
if they blow up right now, this would work for salary matching purposes:

PHI: brad beal, tomas satoransky
WAS: wilson chandler, markelle fultz, furkan korkmaz, 2019 PHI #1, 2021 MIA #1

just keep adding picks, euros and mcconnells until WAS says 'yes':


   2591. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 19, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5789333)
Mike McGraw @McGrawDHBulls 34m34 minutes ago

#Bulls released an update on Denzel Valentine. He'll have surgery on injured left ankle and miss the rest of season.


I kinda forgot he was on the team. Oh well, this probably doesn't do anything any which way or matter in the slightest to anything.
   2592. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 19, 2018 at 05:25 PM (#5789336)
No one but spivey has bitten on the other current player with more steals than fouls, so I'll reveal that it is in fact Mr. Jimbo Buckets himself.
   2593. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 19, 2018 at 05:32 PM (#5789341)
I feel like his formal name is Mr. James Buckets, but yeah, I should have known that.
   2594. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 19, 2018 at 07:59 PM (#5789383)
Checking in from State Farm arena....entertaining first quarter between the Hawks and the Clippers. Collins had three jams in a row, off some nice passes from Trey Young.
   2595. PJ Martinez Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:01 PM (#5789387)
   2596. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:02 PM (#5789388)
Did you guys know Jeremy Lin plays for the Hawks this year? News to me. They recognized Doc Rivers as the Hawks alumni of the night.
   2597. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:12 PM (#5789390)
Vince Carter scores! And picks up three fouls.
   2598. Master of the Horse Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:18 PM (#5789393)
2597--So Carter's 1st game was 2/5/99. He's listed as starter for the Raptors. Who were the other four starters for Toronto that game?

edit: question is for anyone. That post made me think of the question. Answer courtesy of basketballreference
   2599. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:20 PM (#5789396)
Oh, Joel.
guy's trying to put on a show.
   2600. RJ in TO Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:40 PM (#5789402)
2597--So Carter's 1st game was 2/5/99. He's listed as starter for the Raptors. Who were the other four starters for Toronto that game?

Alvin Williams was likely one. I keep thinking Antonio Davis, but I'm fairly sure he joined the Raptors the next year.
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