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Friday, October 05, 2018

OT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom knew the old thread would get closed, thus detracting from what this site is really about: the baseball playoffs, maybe?

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 05, 2018 at 03:43 PM | 3682 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   2601. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:43 PM (#5789403)
99% sure that is Grant Hill and one of the dudes from Migos sitting in the front-row at mid court.

Trae Young with 19 and 7 in the first half.
   2602. Master of the Horse Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:46 PM (#5789406)
2600--wow. I thought this would be the hardest guy to get. You sir, are a Raptors fan. Or you are related to Williams. Or you need to find a hobby.
   2603. PJ Martinez Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:54 PM (#5789410)
"After playing seven minutes in the first half, Markelle Fultz appears to have lost his rotation spot to TJ McConnell here in the second. McConnell in for Ben Simmons late in the third quarter."
   2604. Master of the Horse Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:00 PM (#5789412)
Bucks are getting hammered early at home by Nuggets.
   2605. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:00 PM (#5789413)
@KyleNeubeck
The standing ovation for Iverson was only *slightly* louder (but much longer) than the McConnell ovation earlier.
   2606. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:06 PM (#5789414)
can you get a flagrant foul for breaking a teammate's nose with your elbow?

   2607. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:18 PM (#5789421)
There's mitigating circumstances in all these Celtics losses (ie Kemba going supernova tonight) but ####, at some point they gotta string some wins together.
   2608. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:18 PM (#5789422)
the reason why i only talk about trading him (and okafor and noel before him) for legitimately good players isn't because i think he adds value to the deal, it's because i don't want to give up on him unless it's in a trade that significantly improves the team.
At this point, I would think that ANY trade that moves Fultz for a league-average ANYONE would dramatically improve the team, and I don't know why the Sixers should wait. With Butler in the fold next to Embiid and Simmons, this is a win-now team, with the window being how long Butler stays a top-20 player. Waiting for Fultz to turn into even an average player costs the Sixers games in the standings and possibly home court in the playoffs.

As for teams thinking they can "fix" Fultz, only a terrible team should want to consider doing that.
   2609. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:22 PM (#5789424)
2607: agreed on both counts. I continue to have trouble deciding how much I think dudes hitting tough shots against the Celtics while they miss open shots is bad luck and how much I think is them not playing well enough. Definitely both, but hard to apportion responsibility.
   2610. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:26 PM (#5789425)
I continue to have trouble deciding how much I think dudes hitting tough shots against the Celtics while they miss open shots is bad luck and how much I think is them not playing well enough. Definitely both, but hard to apportion responsibility.

Yep. Number 1 defense, great! SRS of 8th (prior to tonight), not bad! They've had a really tough schedule, and have mostly lost to good teams! All true and fine. But also they're now 9-8.

Blurgh, it's a long year. Not particularly fun right now.
   2611. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5789427)
After teammate Jeff Green and Brooks pushed Wall and Wizards teammates to raise the level of intensity in a practice last week, Wall fired back with "f--- you," toward Brooks, league sources said.

(Sorry Wiz fans- since my own team is mediocre this is the only joy I have.)

   2612. CFBF Rides The Zombie Ice Dragon Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:35 PM (#5789428)
   2613. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5789430)
If your practices are so lackadaisical that Jeff Green thinks you're not working hard enough, I dunno, you might have a problem.
   2614. tshipman Posted: November 19, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5789435)
At this point, I would think that ANY trade that moves Fultz for a league-average ANYONE would dramatically improve the team, and I don't know why the Sixers should wait. With Butler in the fold next to Embiid and Simmons, this is a win-now team, with the window being how long Butler stays a top-20 player. Waiting for Fultz to turn into even an average player costs the Sixers games in the standings and possibly home court in the playoffs.

As for teams thinking they can "fix" Fultz, only a terrible team should want to consider doing that.


It's not really that Fultz is some uniquely terrible player. His PER is 11.2--that's a reasonable backup guard.

However, he really is that bad for the 76ers because you just cannot play him with Simmons or TJ at all, and Simmons plays 33 minutes and McConnell plays 15. He also can't play in high leverage situations like at all because it just takes one coach to Hack-a-Kelle and he might spontaneously combust.
   2615. tshipman Posted: November 19, 2018 at 10:27 PM (#5789437)
So as best as I can tell, there's no real way to make a Lakers deal for Beal work until December 15 (hat tip to jmurph).

The reason for that is that KCP basically has to be in the deal to make the money work, and he can't be traded until then.

My preferred variant of the deal would be KCP (for salary), Brandon Ingram and Kuzma for Beal. I'm really not sure if that's enticing to Washington or not because that franchise is not well run.
   2616. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:12 PM (#5789446)
The reason for that is that KCP basically has to be in the deal to make the money work, and he can't be traded until then.
there's also rondo. he seems like a good guy to throw that locker room. him and the beas.
My preferred variant of the deal would be KCP (for salary), Brandon Ingram and Kuzma for Beal. I'm really not sure if that's enticing to Washington or not because that franchise is not well run.
exactly.
At this point, I would think that ANY trade that moves Fultz for a league-average ANYONE would dramatically improve the team, and I don't know why the Sixers should wait.
FWIW, i wouldn't trade fultz for KCP, and i'm a big fan of KCP.

i just think that's a poor use of resources. there really isn't any difference between trading fultz for 10 cents on the dollar, or eating the loss next year and getting nothing. you can scrounge up league average anyones for anything at anytime, so i'd rather keep fultz until there's something good available.
   2617. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:17 PM (#5789449)
3956. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 09, 2016 at 11:06 AM (#5239871)
on a related note:
CHI (mosses):

again, not an offer, just a conversation starter, how close would a package of saric, embiid and jaylen brown come to getting jimmy butler?
3962. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 09, 2016 at 12:07 PM (#5239937)
Do you want a serious response or a joke response?
3945. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 15, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5625674)
sixers remaining schedule:
good teams (3) : CLE, @CLE, MIN
comparable teams (8) : @WAS*, @MIL, MIL*, @MIA, @MIA, IND, @DET*, DEN
awful teams (16): @ATL, @ATL, @BRK, BRK*, BRK, @CHI, CHA*, @CHA, CHA, @CHA, DAL, MEM, @NYK, NYK, ORL, @ORL*
(*star indicates 2nd game of a B2B)

if they can win 20 of those 27, they'll hit 50 wins for the season.
that's not gonna happen.
but it might.
   2618. tshipman Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM (#5789452)
i just think that's a poor use of resources. there really isn't any difference between trading fultz for 10 cents on the dollar, or eating the loss next year and getting nothing. you can scrounge up league average anyones for anything at anytime, so i'd rather keep fultz until there's something good available.


This gets back to my beef with Boston fans a couple of years ago when they had IT and were the 1 seed and didn't want to trade for Butler or George if it meant losing what ended up being Collin Sexton.

Either you believe that this Philly team is a contender, or you don't. If you think they're a contender, then getting KCP (or whatever other league average starter you prefer) for Fultz isn't just a move you make, it's a move you make and say hell yeah.

If the 76ers switched franchises with the Lakers, I would be advocating for a trade yesterday for anything I could get. Championship windows are so very small, and it's so very hard to get in position that if you really think you're a contender, you have to stomp on the ############# gas pedal.

Now, if you don't think the 6ers are a contender, by all means, keep Fultz, see if you can scrounge up a dead cat bounce, but please stop with the crap about how great they are then, because you don't even believe it.
   2619. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 20, 2018 at 12:05 AM (#5789466)
There's mitigating circumstances in all these Celtics losses (ie Kemba going supernova tonight) but ####, at some point they gotta string some wins together.
can we focus for a second on how poorly the start of the season has gone for BOS?

they're 9-8.
haghtwerd looks toasted.
kyrie has a foot dangling out the door.
tatum has developed kobe syndrome.
robert williams is as professional as marreese speights.
jaylen brown and marcus smart have identical triple slash lines.
terry rozier lost whatever he found last year in the playoffs.
LAC looks like a legitimate playoff contender.
MEM looks like a legitimate playoff contender.
SAC does not look like a legitimate playoff contender, but they do look like they won't pick in the top 5, or maybe even top 10.

it's possible this season will end with the celtics being capped out, watching their best player sign with the knicks, having 4 first round picks (but none in the top 10 and none left to convey at a later date), with many of their core young players having taken a step back from last season.
Either you believe that this Philly team is a contender, or you don't. If you think they're a contender, then getting KCP (or whatever other league average starter you prefer) for Fultz isn't just a move you make, it's a move you make and say hell yeah.

If the 76ers switched franchises with the Lakers, I would be advocating for a trade yesterday for anything I could get. Championship windows are so very small, and it's so very hard to get in position that if you really think you're a contender, you have to stomp on the ############# gas pedal.

Now, if you don't think the 6ers are a contender, by all means, keep Fultz, see if you can scrounge up a dead cat bounce, but please stop with the crap about how great they are then, because you don't even believe it.
i think i've been pretty clear about this point: i don't think the sixers are a contender. once they whiffed on lebron, the sixers should have signed nerlens noel, tyreke evans and rodney hood to long term contracts. that would have fixed some of the issues the sixers had last year and it would have given them enough depth to absorb something like, oh, i don't know, trading saric and covington for jimmy f'n butler. i also would have drafted michael porter jr, but i guess his back injury wasn't exotic enough for them, so instead we get zhaire smith's 'complications from knee surgery, relating to a shellfish allergy' that has him out until 2019, at the earliest.

since they didn't do that, they don't have enough depth to compete even after adding butler. i might be more optimistic if they had kept covington out of the trade, but without covington, they're still short by at least two pieces.

also: trading for KCP or jeff green or whoever is not "stomping on the ############# gas pedal".
   2620. tshipman Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:11 AM (#5789476)
i think i've been pretty clear about this point: i don't think the sixers are a contender.


Okay, fair enough. I missed that if you've said it before.
   2621. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 20, 2018 at 08:49 AM (#5789501)
fwiw, tyreke is playing like his career year was last year and it's no longer last year.
--
also, villanova lost to something called "furman"
furman also beat loyola of chicago, so that's half of last year's final four right there.
   2622. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: November 20, 2018 at 08:55 AM (#5789503)
it's possible this season will end with the celtics being capped out, watching their best player sign with the knicks, having 4 first round picks (but none in the top 10 and none left to convey at a later date), with many of their core young players having taken a step back from last season.


I found something to say I am thankful for at the dinner table Thursday.

EDIT - But I know better. Things tend to work out better than this for Boston teams.
   2623. JC in DC Posted: November 20, 2018 at 08:57 AM (#5789504)
I hate Boston as much as the next guy, but I think the Boston burials are premature. They'll get right. And, I admit to not having watched them play more than 5 minutes, but is Hateward really toast? The guy's like 20 games into post-catastrophic injury return. Maybe we give him 50 games before we declare him dead? He's got to get confident in his leg and beyond thinking about it. I'm sure he's not there yet.
   2624. spivey Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:11 AM (#5789511)
I tend to agree with JC in 2623. I think Boston is dealing with a couple of things. Reintegrating a number of ball handlers is tough, there was always going to be growing pains, and there is diminishing returns in the regular season. It is something that should help come playoff time when individual weaknesses become much more exposed.

As for Hayward, he's playing awful. But when I've seen him, he still looks like an NBA player physically. He doesn't look doughy, I think it's mostly a matter of getting re-acclimated to his new role in the offense, which is going to be less on ball, and playing aggressively, and trusting his body. All that takes time. It's also worth noting he had no regular season time with the team before the injury. It's not even the same as missing a year but then coming back into a team/offense you've played in for years.

That said, are people really burying Boston? I think they'll be around and a tough out in the playoffs.
   2625. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:28 AM (#5789519)
As for Hayward, he's playing awful. But when I've seen him, he still looks like an NBA player physically. He doesn't look doughy, I think it's mostly a matter of getting re-acclimated to his new role in the offense, which is going to be less on ball, and playing aggressively, and trusting his body. All that takes time. It's also worth noting he had no regular season time with the team before the injury. It's not even the same as missing a year but then coming back into a team/offense you've played in for years.

I agree with this, he looks fine to me physically (with the caveat that none of us can really tell if a guy is physically right). He's just a little too hesitant, like he's not sure when to attack and when to pass. And the shot is slightly off, but he's getting good looks and just missing. I don't see any reason to think a solid shooter no longer knows how to shoot.

That said, are people really burying Boston?

Surprisingly, given their record, not really! People seem to think they'll come around. If the playoffs started today I'd still take them over Philly easily and possibly Milwaukee. Not Toronto, though.

Of stiggles list of fantasies in 2619, my main concerns are how useless Rozier has been and how absolutely awful Jaylen Brown looks. The Rozier concern is only an issue in that the ship might be sailing on him as an asset (I don't think he has a future there anymore post Smart re-signing). Tatum is just taking too many bad long 2s, but he's still a very good young player: 16 ppg, 38.7% from three, solid defense.

I still think they'll be fine, but right now I guess I'd lower their ceiling from potential competitive finals contender to just one of the contenders in the East, but well behind the best team in the East.
   2626. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:34 AM (#5789525)
My preferred variant of the deal would be KCP (for salary), Brandon Ingram and Kuzma for Beal. I'm really not sure if that's enticing to Washington or not because that franchise is not well run.

I think that should be intriguing to Washington, but who knows (as you say).
   2627. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:43 AM (#5789529)
gordo: the other thing about him is that there's a long standing perception of him as a shooter, a guy who can really stroke it from deep. but that's not him - his strength has been that he's solid at everything - playmaking, defense, getting to the line, and so on (this does include shooting, he's just not exemplary at it). post-injury hayward, so far on paper, is much more of a perimeter oriented guy (where he's struggling) - he's taking the same number of threes, but like 40% less twos and less than half as many free throws.
(this, obviously, isn't inconsistent with jmurph's 2625)
   2628. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5789539)
post-injury hayward, so far on paper, is much more of a perimeter oriented guy (where he's struggling) - he's taking the same number of threes, but like 40% less twos and less than half as many free throws.

Totally agree that this is the problem. When he's looked his best thus far he's catching and going into a quick drive, drawing defenders, and distributing. Or he's running off a screen, catching it at the elbow, turning and raising and draining the mid-range two. He's also looked good on defense, both on the ball and as a help defender. So again while I suspect the offensive struggles are system-related, I suppose it's totally possible it's injury-related, and he just doesn't have the stamina/ability to break people down right now.
   2629. spivey Posted: November 20, 2018 at 10:31 AM (#5789560)
I still think they'll be fine, but right now I guess I'd lower their ceiling from potential competitive finals contender to just one of the contenders in the East, but well behind the best team in the East

Is that Toronto? You know, I'm starting to come around that it may well be Milwaukee.

Milwaukee has the best point differential in the East by a huge margin. They've also played a significantly tougher schedule than Toronto. Their SOS on basketball-reference is 5th toughest in the NBA, where as Toronto is 24th. Granted it's early and there will be some noise, but much of Milwaukee's great start has been against good teams in the West and the top of the East.
   2630. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5789567)
Is that Toronto? You know, I'm starting to come around that it may well be Milwaukee.

Milwaukee has the best point differential in the East by a huge margin. They've also played a significantly tougher schedule than Toronto. Their SOS on basketball-reference is 5th toughest in the NBA, where as Toronto is 24th. Granted it's early and there will be some noise, but much of Milwaukee's great start has been against good teams in the West and the top of the East.

Totally fair, definitely up for debate. I have Toronto as the best but honestly that's probably just because I've seen them more.

Incidentally, where is strength of schedule on Basketball Reference? I couldn't find it yesterday when looking.

EDIT: Just found it. I'm a dumb.
   2631. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5789598)
David Aldridge @davidaldridgedc 9m9 minutes ago

At the direction of his attorney, Raymond Brothers, @MarkelleF is scheduled to see a shoulder specialist early next week. Per Brothers, Fultz will not participate in team practices or games until after the the specialist has had a chance to evaluate him.


Normal, new slant, etc.
   2632. Master of the Horse Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5789603)
2629--you seem pretty wired in on the Bucks. What's with the slow starts? Just random events happening to be strung together? A real thing and if so why? Thanks
   2633. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5789608)
3956. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 09, 2016 at 11:06 AM (#5239871)
on a related note:
CHI (mosses):

again, not an offer, just a conversation starter, how close would a package of saric, embiid and jaylen brown come to getting jimmy butler?

3962. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 09, 2016 at 12:07 PM (#5239937)
Do you want a serious response or a joke response?


Remember, at this time, Embiid has just missed his 2nd straight season and had yet to play a minute in the NBA, Saric had also yet to debut (and IIRC, there was some doubt whether or not he'd actually come over for the next season), and Brown hadn't been picked yet (I don't recall what the equivalent pick here would have been, not #1 because that was always going to be Simmons and IIRC the C's picking him 3rd was a little bit of a surprise), and Jimmy had 3 full years left at a sub-max deal. So sure, let's pretend that was a fair trade idea at the time and not at all like every other one of your proposals thru the years...

...having said that, absolutely the Bulls would be much better off today and Philly much worse had that trade happened. Although, even with Philly's dicey injury work, I'm sure the Bulls would have also ###### Embiid up worse.
   2634. spivey Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5789612)
I am not too worried about the Bucks slow starts. I didn't see the Chicago game. Last night they were just missing shots. Memphis and Denver are also two of the slowest paced teams in the league, so you can have halves that are low scoring especially when shots aren't dropping. The Chicago first half seems probably like there was a big component of the team thinking they could just show up and win, but I don't think there was anything like that last night. They just weren't making shots.

They are a jump shooting team through and through, first in 3pa and near the bottom in free throws attempted. They also play with a high pace but not every team wants to play that game with them. So I think they'll have some wild variance in terms of points in quarters.
   2635. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5789620)
Justin Kubatko @jkubatko
Kemba Walker is just the sixth player in NBA history to follow up a 60-point game with a 40-point game. The others are Wilt Chamberlain, Pete Maravich, Michael Jordan, Tracy McGrady, and Kobe Bryant.

Lost amidst all the Celtics and Sixers talk (for which I'm guilty, obviously), Kemba just had two consecutive ridiculous games. He was being guarded fairly well last night by a pretty damn good PG defender (Smart) and just getting whatever he wanted. They were just using a basic screen set by Zeller, but even knowing what was coming, the Celtics couldn't do anything fast enough to cut Kemba off from driving. It was insane.
   2636. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5789623)
[2635] And the 60 point game was against Jimmy Butler. Kemba has quietly become Eastern Conference Lillard. He's going to get the max.

EDIT: I love the way the Sixers have kept Iverson close to the team and I really appreciate AI as the rare "old-timer" (damn does that make me old) who respects the evolution of the game.
   2637. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5789624)
If the playoffs started today I'd still take them over Philly easily and possibly Milwaukee. Not Toronto, though.

I'm not taking Boston over Philly, even if Boston straightens everything out. Maybe that's premature to buy in on Milwaukee, but I'm buying.

EDIT: IOW, totally agree with Spivey.
   2638. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5789626)
[2635] And the 60 point game was against Jimmy Butler. Kemba has quietly become Eastern Conference Lillard. He's going to get a massive deal.

I love it, good for him. I'm sure stiggles or someone could pull the relevant thread but I'm pretty sure I was skeptical of his abilities for a while, even after his first couple of years. But he's so good right now. Lillard is a really good comparison.
   2639. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5789627)
I am not too worried about the Bucks slow starts. I didn't see the Chicago game. Last night they were just missing shots. Memphis and Denver are also two of the slowest paced teams in the league, so you can have halves that are low scoring especially when shots aren't dropping. The Chicago first half seems probably like there was a big component of the team thinking they could just show up and win, but I don't think there was anything like that last night. They just weren't making shots.

3pt variance /tship

Seriously though, the Bulls just nailed everything. Jabari looked really good early - really aggressive, like he was taking it personally. The Bucks almost weren't ready for the Bulls effort level. Eventually, the overwhelming talent difference just took over.
   2640. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5789631)
Current win the East odds at 5Dimes

Raptors +190
Celtics +195
76ers +445
Bucks +550
   2641. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5789636)
NYT Sports @NYTSports 1h1 hour ago

The Memphis Grizzlies are in talks to sign Joakim Noah, who was waived by the Knicks last month https://nyti.ms/2QW3Dq7 by @TheSteinLine


hmmmm
   2642. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:54 AM (#5789637)
hmmmm

Probably a precursor to a bigger deal with the Wolves.

(Kidding, for now.)
   2643. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5789638)
I'm rooting for Jo, but I don't know if there's anything left there. I'm not following the Grizz at all, but I also don't know how much he'd actually fit in the rotation. Back in the day, it would have been something to see him and Marc together (though him and Pau didn't work that great).
   2644. Master of the Horse Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5789639)
2634--makes sense, thanks. The Bucks cranking the 3's is so wild after the Kidd lost years. Seriously Kidd had the Bucks playing a stupid defense and a stupid offense and the team barely makes the playoffs mostly because Giannis is awesome. So now the Bucks play sensible defense and sensible offense that go with how the NBA works these days and the Bucks are killing it. Does Kidd ever get another job coaching in the NBA??
   2645. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: November 20, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5789648)
2634--makes sense, thanks. The Bucks cranking the 3's is so wild after the Kidd lost years. Seriously Kidd had the Bucks playing a stupid defense and a stupid offense and the team barely makes the playoffs mostly because Giannis is awesome. So now the Bucks play sensible defense and sensible offense that go with how the NBA works these days and the Bucks are killing it. Does Kidd ever get another job coaching in the NBA??

The Mark Jackson parallels are so blatant it feels like bad writing. Down to them both being rumored as potential Luke Walton replacements in LA.
   2646. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 20, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5789654)
JR really wants to get out of Cleveland (but won't accept a buyout for some reason?)
   2647. Master of the Horse Posted: November 20, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5789656)
2645--stating obvious because of course that has to be Bron so why does he want that?
   2648. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 20, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5789673)
K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop 7m7 minutes ago

The specialist Denzel Valentine visited and who will perform the ankle surgery (Green Bay-based Bob Anderson) is the same surgeon who performed Steph Curry's ankle surgery.


If Denzel doesn't come out of this as good as Steph, the surgery will be a failure.
   2649. JC in DC Posted: November 20, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5789679)
So, I was talking to a local AAU coach about Fultz this morning. He's a guy who didn't coach him, but coached against him and coached some of his teammates. He reported to me the joke is that Fultz's AAU team 5 first picks, because he wasn't the best on the team. He laughed - it was a joke - but he called Fultz a "victim of the hype machine," explaining the hype ran away with him, and now he's suffering (mentally) to live expectations he may have reached, but had not yet. I thought that was an interesting take.
   2650. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5789694)
Joe Vardon @joevardon 9m9 minutes ago

JR Smith will no longer be actively with the Cavs, a league source tells me. He is working with the team to trade him, and in the meantime will work out on his own


Lakers, I'm looking at you...
   2651. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5789700)
Pistons are so crappy at guard that I'd consider JR for the year, but really don't see anyway to make salaries match.
   2652. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5789703)
I'm guessing there probably isn't a trade match out there, and he eventually just gets bought out.
   2653. JC in DC Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5789714)
Maybe Cleveland can attach their 2019 #1 for the Lakers taking on his salary, so we can get LBJ and Zion together?
   2654. maccoach57 Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:41 PM (#5789715)
Boston: I think it pretty much revolves around Hayward. He has a 13 PER and a .492 TS, and they are 27th in ORTG. I have never been sold on all their various young guys as being notably valuable--Brown, Rozier, Smart--and I am not convinced that Tatum is going to be a big star, either. Horford is 32. So, they need a lot of the O to come from Irving and Hayward. And even with James gone, they are now dealing with a competitive ecology in the East where their three main competitors have best guys who are better than their best guys.

That said, as noted, give Hayward time, and they have a pretty deep team and a good coach (Although Boston's issues so far are a good illustration of why IMO generally coaching only goes so far--same with SA. Milwaukee is more an exception ISTM.) So Boston is in good shape overall. All they need to do is get the ORTG up to the middle of the league, and that is very doable.

Milwaukee: They are #2 in the NBA in DRB% after ending up 28th last year. So I obviously underestimated the Brook Lopez effect, among other things. That conceded, I do not think either the Bucks or Toronto are quite as badass as they look right now, but we will see.

Western Conference: Memphis, Portland and the Clippers are tied atop the West at 11-5. The Lakers are 8th at 9-7. The second sentence is almost exactly what I expected to see. The first...is not, early in the year or no.
   2655. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5789717)
Oh my god JR is owed $15.6 million NEXT YEAR. I had forgotten that.
   2656. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5789721)
Oh my god JR is owed $15.6 million NEXT YEAR. I had forgotten that.


He can be waived by 6-30-2019 for $3.87M. Sad that I knew this. (Well, not the specific number.)
   2657. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2018 at 02:06 PM (#5789729)
He can be waived by 6-30-2019 for $3.87M. Sad that I knew this. (Well, not the specific number.)

Oops good catch. I didn't scroll down far enough.
   2658. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 20, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5789816)
I hate Boston as much as the next guy, but I think the Boston burials are premature. They'll get right. And, I admit to not having watched them play more than 5 minutes, but is Hateward really toast? The guy's like 20 games into post-catastrophic injury return. Maybe we give him 50 games before we declare him dead? He's got to get confident in his leg and beyond thinking about it. I'm sure he's not there yet.
FWIW, [2619] wasn't a burial, it was just an observation of things that have happened to this point in the season, that would be near-worst cast developments if they continued through the whole season.
Current win the East odds at 5Dimes

Raptors +190
Celtics +195
76ers +445
Bucks +550
all 4 of those teams are roughly equivalent at this point, so take MIL and run.
   2659. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 20, 2018 at 05:47 PM (#5789838)
@_JohnGonz
After last night’s game, Brett Brown said the backup PG minutes between TJ McConnell and Markelle Fultz would be based on matchups and opponents. After talking to people, I don’t think he or the team knew this was coming. Feels like a Fultz camp decision
@jonjohnsonwip
Fultz timeline(in basic detail): Says he’s healthy, has no problem driving lane, dunking ball with full extension, but continues to struggle with shooting, decision making. Is benched for veteran. Next day, camp pulls him from team activities until sees a shoulder specialist.
@PompeyOnSixers
Markelle Fultz worked out with the #Sixers today even after his agent said he wouldn’t practice or play until he sees a shoulder specialist. Fultz participated in light shooting with teammates, according to league sources. The Sixers didn’t have a formal practice.
@jonjohnsonwip
Brand on timing of Fultz seeking outside opinion after being benched last night:"Whatever Markelle wants, his timing, it is what it is."
@KyleNeubeck
Just my interpretation, but Elton Brand did not seem happy, and did his best to skirt around some of the specifics as they pertain to Fultz and the timeline leading up until today.
@jonjohnsonwip
Brett Brown on adjustments based on Fultz situation: "My initial reaction is, we can adsorb this because we have TJ."
@KyleNeubeck
I gotta tell ya man, this whole thing is truly insane.
   2660. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 20, 2018 at 06:42 PM (#5789848)
Fultz is going to go right up there neck-and-neck with Anthony Bennett in the discussion of biggest draft bust ever, I fear.
   2661. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 20, 2018 at 07:23 PM (#5789857)
Maybe it's semantic but I never thought of Bennett or Kwame Brown as busts -- instead, as players who were huuuuge reaches when chosen.

Granting that Fultz may be injured (who the hell knows), who is the biggest first-overall bust who wasn't viewed as a big reach and didn't have his career ruined by injuries? Bargnani?
   2662. PJ Martinez Posted: November 20, 2018 at 07:55 PM (#5789866)
Maybe it's semantic but I never thought of Bennett or Kwame Brown as busts -- instead, as players who were huuuuge reaches when chosen.
On some podcast a few months ago Woj said that if Cleveland hadn't taken Bennett no. 1 he might have gone in the mid-teens.
   2663. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 20, 2018 at 07:58 PM (#5789868)
Wiz were down 19 at home to the Clips after one. It hasn't gotten much better.
   2664. PJ Martinez Posted: November 20, 2018 at 08:01 PM (#5789871)
One small footnote to 2619: It's better for Boston if LAC makes the playoffs, because that pick is top-14 protected this year and next, and after that it becomes a 2022 second-rounder.
   2665. GregD Posted: November 20, 2018 at 08:04 PM (#5789873)
Granting that Fultz may be injured (who the hell knows), who is the biggest first-overall bust who wasn't viewed as a big reach and didn't have his career ruined by injuries? Bargnani?
Joe Smith, off the top of my head.

Out of Service Pervis would be up there.

Olowokandi was pretty bad but I don't know how much people expected him to be better. He was just big.

Smith, though, looked like a really fine NBA prospect. I don't remember if there was much talk about taking McDyess or the UNC guys in the #1 spot. I kind of think I remember Smith being the obvious #1 pick even though those guys were well thought of. Obviously no one quite sussed out how amazing Garnett would be
   2666. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: November 20, 2018 at 08:13 PM (#5789876)
I think Smith was the consensus #1 pick in the Usenet draft that year.
   2667. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 20, 2018 at 08:31 PM (#5789879)
Joe Smith played in the NBA for 15 years, though. Olowokandi played 9 years in the NBA. Pervis, off an on, for about 9 years.

Compare to Bennett, who played 151 games in his NBA career, and started only 4. And it looks pretty likely Fultz is going to wind up around that number of career games, too (though he's already started 15).
   2668. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:08 PM (#5789884)
2629--you seem pretty wired in on the Bucks. What's with the slow starts?

It seems like mostly variance, yeah, but for whatever reason the Bucks seem to turn the ball over way more at the beginning of games. Also, their plus/minus numbers with Brogdon on the court have been among the worst on the team,. Despite his pretty good numbers, the offense seems to stagnate a bit when he has the ball in his hands.
   2669. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:10 PM (#5789885)
this is the best thing ever written.
We’re basically one Instagram video of Butler wearing sweatpants to Wawa away from the city putting a statue of him outside the Museum of Art.
...
Forget the Colangelo coup, the Hinkie Manifesto, or even that time managing partner Josh Harris canceled a kids’ soccer game by landing his helicopter on the field. Just consider everything that’s happened in the past six months: They fired their general manager after an internal investigation into a bizarre social media account scandal first reported by The Ringer. They spent the whole critical offseason operating with a front office by committee, only to hire a new general manager, Elton Brand, who, as Embiid helpfully pointed out, was only two years removed from getting dunked on by the franchise center during Sixers practice. There were also outrageous, offbeat side stories like Redick’s caged-person cab ride
...
yet another medical setback to yet another first-round pick, this one owing to an undiscovered sesame allergy that threatens to keep the rookie out for the foreseeable future.
...
the Sixers purposefully gave the first question at the Butler presser to an in-house reporter for the team website, in part to “control the narrative” and thereby avoid beginning the proceedings with queries about Jimmy-related drama
...
they were aware of Smith’s peanut allergy and prepared his food individually, but the team and the player were unaware that he also had a sesame allergy, and he may have eaten something from the facility with sesame in it that triggered a reaction. Reporters were also told that Smith would not play in 2018.
...
Smith had “lost weight” over the past month and a half, but I was told that he lost “upward of 20 pounds.” For someone who’s listed at 199 pounds on the team website, that’s significant
...
“Man,” Butler said, “I got a serious cramp in my calf. So I don’t even know what you were saying. Can you please start over?”
...
“I’m not old,” Butler began. “I’m 29.”
...
After one of Butler’s field goals in the Jazz game, the arena played “Jimmy” by Boogie Down Productions. I looked around to see whether anyone else noticed — because the song is about a dick. Butler is the Sixers’ dick now — a we dick instead of y’all’s dick 
...
After Friday’s win over Utah, Butler and Simmons implied that the out-of-bounds play that helped them beat the Jazz was the product of early-onset mental telepathy between the two. Both said they just sort of looked at each other and nodded
   2670. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:10 PM (#5789886)
That post is going to look stupid when Anthony Bennett -- who is somehow still only 25 -- makes it back to the NBA and unleashes hell on all the haters!

The Wiz have rallied to take the lead in the fourth quarter! Is this the turning point for thw franchise?
   2671. PJ Martinez Posted: November 20, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5789898)
Markieff Morris asked if it was nice getting a win considering everything that’s happened over the last day.

“Not really. It’s f— ed up what’s going on.”

“The comments that’s coming from the locker room is f—-ed up. That don’t happen in sports.”
   2672. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 21, 2018 at 12:59 AM (#5789910)
trade machine: who says no?

CLE: ian mahinmi, mike muscala, furkan korkmaz
WAS: jr smith, markelle fultz
PHI: markieff morris, kyle korver, tomas satoransky
   2673. . . . . . . Posted: November 21, 2018 at 07:49 AM (#5789921)
You know how in reddit they have helpful bots in threads? For example, when someone posts in imperial units it automatically posts with a conversion to metric? We need one of those here so whenever stiggles posts a “who says no?” it auto-replies “everyone but the sixers” and then the thread can move on to more interesting things.
   2674. Thok Posted: November 21, 2018 at 08:52 AM (#5789923)
Trade Machine: Who says no?

CLE: Joel Embiid, Ben Simmons
PHI: Tristan Thompson, JR Smith

(Hollinger claims this only hurts the 76ers by 4 wins this season.)
   2675. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2018 at 09:45 AM (#5789938)
The empty Thanksgiving slate is really going to challenge my season-long avoidance of football.
   2676. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2018 at 09:48 AM (#5789941)
Watched a bunch of Knicks-Blazers last night. Question for the Knicks fans: is Vonleh decent now? Like an actual NBA rotation player? He looked okay in stretches last night.
   2677. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5789982)
Watched a bunch of Knicks-Blazers last night. Question for the Knicks fans: is Vonleh decent now? Like an actual NBA rotation player? He looked okay in stretches last night.

He's been not awful. Seems to be developing range to 3 and is a terror on the boards but isn't much of a rim protector and doesn't have great lateral quickness (but he tries hard). The Knicks have done a good job finding end of the bench/rotation guys.
   2678. PJ Martinez Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5789993)
If you were running the Orlando Magic, and you had to trade for one of them, would you rather make a deal for Markelle Fultz or John Wall?
   2679. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5790001)
If you were running the Orlando Magic, and you had to trade for one of them, would you rather make a deal for Markelle Fultz or John Wall?


John Wall.

If I'm running the Orlando Magic, I should assume I'm going to be fired in two years, so most of Wall's contract will be someone else's problem.
   2680. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5790009)
Whoa whoa whoa we're talking about the 8th place Orlando Magic like this? Disrespectful.

Lowe and Haberstroh broke down the Wiz situation pretty well on the most recent Lowe Post. Wall is almost literally untradeable until the summer because his trade kicker is extremely complicated. But then his new contract kicks in and he becomes prohibitively expensive. So basically there is no reason to think he'll be moved.
   2681. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 21, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5790042)
Rob Mahoney @RobMahoney 51m51 minutes ago

Last season, Clint Capela led the league with 213 dunks. Giannis Antetokounmpo, if he continues at his current pace, would finish the year with 378.

Rob Mahoney @RobMahoney 40m40 minutes ago

The highest in Basketball-Reference’s database (which goes back to 2000) is Dwight Howard with 269 dunks in 2007-08. Giannis, at this rate, could smash that record by late February.
   2682. Master of the Horse Posted: November 21, 2018 at 12:27 PM (#5790048)
2681--thanks for sharing
   2683. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 21, 2018 at 12:28 PM (#5790049)
But then his new contract kicks in and he becomes prohibitively expensive.


I'm the guy who is obsessed with Wall's contract [extension], but I honestly can't stop being amazed at how bad it is.

It's 4/170. What do you think Wall is likely to be worth? It's his age 29-32 years. I think a reasonable estimate is $12M/year. If you wanted to say it was $16M or $8M I wouldn't really quibble with you (it would have only a minor impact on this math). Let's call it $50M of value for these seasons.

This means that this contract has 120M in dead money. This is an all-time record in basketball, and maybe for any sport. There are only 6 contracts ever above $140M: Harden, Westbrook, Curry, Griffin, Conley, Embiid. Taking 120M off each contract, clearly Harden 2017-23 will be worth more than 6/108, Westbrook 2018-23 5/85, Curry 2017-22 5/81, Blake 2017-22 5/52, Conley 2016-20 5/32, Embiid 2018-23 5/26M. Of these, Westbrook, and maybe Embiid if he suffers a career ending injury right now, are the only ones that seem even remotely in the picture to not be worth it.

For baseball, it is less clear, beacuse longer and thus bigger contracts are possible. Cabrera's 8/247 from 2016-23 looks pretty bad right now given his injury problems. Stanton could maybe top out at 200M in value on his 13/325 from 2014 to 2027 (though he seems odds on to beat that mark). Cano's 10/240 from 2014 to 2023 will probably generate 120M of value, but maybe not, and any pitcher could always suffer a career ending or crippling injury in their next start. But injuries there come with a bit of an asterisk since the team can usually recover a fair amount of the money.

But basketball-wise, 120M in dead money makes every other bad contract look like child's play. Remember when LaVine signed that 4/78 contract with the Kings this summer and people were like oh ####, Kings being Kings, and then the Bulls matched and people were like, oh ####, Bulls being Bulls? If LaVine were replacement level (he's not), Wall's dead money is still 50% more than that! Remember when the Magic signed Biyombo to a 4/68 contract and this was instantly a laughingstock because Biyombo is very bad at basketball? That whole contract is barely half of Wall's dead money!

And it hasn't even started yet! The Wizards could have the same team right now without that contract! They didn't have to do it!!!!!

As JC is fond of noting, Ernie Grunfeld, man.
   2684. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5790089)
I'm the guy who is obsessed with Wall's contract [extension], but I honestly can't stop being amazed at how bad it is.

This is a wonderful post.
   2685. spivey Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:39 PM (#5790135)
I mean, Wall's contract is awful. But he's an above average PG by most any measure. I just don't buy that 4/50 is a reasonable baseline to use. He isn't worth the supermax, though I think he got it before everyone started really thinking critically about who should get it.

But many teams would have maxed him, and if he was a free agent this upcoming offseason he'd be getting max offers too. LaVine had zero years of average basketball under his belt when he got that deal, and money was much more of a scarce resource last offseason than this one.
   2686. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:56 PM (#5790143)
For baseball, it is less clear, beacuse longer and thus bigger contracts are possible. Cabrera's 8/247 from 2016-23 looks pretty bad right now given his injury problems. Stanton could maybe top out at 200M in value on his 13/325 from 2014 to 2027 (though he seems odds on to beat that mark). Cano's 10/240 from 2014 to 2023 will probably generate 120M of value, but maybe not, and any pitcher could always suffer a career ending or crippling injury in their next start. But injuries there come with a bit of an asterisk since the team can usually recover a fair amount of the money.

Albert Pujols pulls the hood over his head, and tries to act as inconspicuous as possible.
   2687. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5790146)
he's an above average PG by most any measure. I just don't buy that 4/50 is a reasonable baseline to use.
But that's sort of the point of the post: the contract is so colossal that almost anything but MVP-level play would be a disappointment. Let's suppose that 4/100 is a better estimate of Wall's on-court worth than 4/50: that's still $70 million of dead salary!
   2688. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5790159)
But that's sort of the point of the post: the contract is so colossal that almost anything but MVP-level play would be a disappointment. Let's suppose that 4/100 is a better estimate of Wall's on-court worth than 4/50: that's still $70 million of dead salary!

Right. Is he definitively better than, say, Eric Bledsoe anymore? Because I would be appalled if my team gave Eric Bledsoe 4/100.
   2689. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: November 21, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5790180)
Or Jeff Teague?
   2690. maccoach57 Posted: November 21, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5790194)
I get the reaction, but Wall has made five consecutive ASGs and is/was seen as the Face of the Franchise guy on a team that until very recently was seen as a fringe contender to get out of the East, kind of cool, maybe a FA or big trade away from making noise, etc. Between the wheels coming off some in DC, the continuing emergence of Antetokounmpo and Embiid; and Hayward, Leonard, and Butler coming East, Washington looks like a trashcan fire now--but they didn't at the moment the deal was made, and I don't recall a bunch of guys on the thread freaking out about how dumb it was at the time, although I may be misremembering.

So sure, teams should be smart about stuff like this, and Grunfeld was not. But there is something to be said for solid teams having personnel continuity by keeping their key guys around even on overpays, as Memphis did with Mike Conley and Marc Gasol, neither of whom is going to lead the Grizzlies to the title.

But...guys like that need to be popular, solid-citizen types, like Gasol and Conley are, not guys who who drop FBombs on the coach and lead the league in standing still without the basketball.
   2691. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 21, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5790206)
A definitive timeline of the Markelle Fultz saga in Philadelphia
When the news hit, it got me thinking back on the long and winding road that got the Sixers to this point after drafting Fultz out of Washington less than 18 months ago. For every one I remembered, I knew there was at least one I was forgetting. So, with that in mind, I decided to go back and lay out the entirety of Fultz NBA career in one easy to reference timeline.
...
No matter how much you think you remember, there's almost certainly something you're forgetting...

June 17, 2017: Sixers host Washington guard Markelle Fultz for pre-draft workout
It didn't go well.

So, how did Fultz shoot? Like Phillip Seymour Hoffman in "Along Came Polly."

Yep, Fultz threw up a bunch of bricks. Was it only like 20 shots? Yep. Was he probably a little tired from the trip up I-95 from Maryland? He didn’t think so. Was he probably a little nervous with all of the attention? I don’t know. But yeah, he shot poorly from what we saw.

Obviously, the on-court work was by far the least important part of Fultz’s trip. The Sixers mostly want to talk to him and get his medical information. [MORE]

October 24, 2017: According to a report, Fultz 'literally cannot raise up his arms to shoot' after having fluid drained from shoulder

According to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski, Fultz had his shoulder drained will seek the help of a specialist.

"Markelle had a shoulder injury and fluid drained out of the back of his shoulder," [Fultz's] agent Raymond Brothers told ESPN. "He literally cannot raise up his arms to shoot the basketball. He decided to try and fight through the pain to help the team. He has a great attitude. We are committed to finding a solution to get Markelle back to 100 percent."
November 13, 2018: GM Elton Brand addresses Fultz (and his hideous free throw)

Jon Johnson (94 WIP): I hate to ask you this on such a day; a lot was made last night about Markelle Fultz's free throw. Did you see it? What was your reaction?

Brand: I saw the free throw, for sure. I've been seeing him work this summer, and all of this season, and he has times where something like that happens. But following that, he shot it very well and it looked very fluid. He's going to have some ups and downs. He's going to have more ups than downs. You saw the talent level in flashes, how talented he is.



...the best thing in this article is that it didn't even note that fultz broke joel embiid's face last march.
   2692. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5790207)
My Wall views align with rr.
   2693. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 21, 2018 at 05:30 PM (#5790221)
this compilation video of markelle fultz making 3s at UW is an interesting watch right now.
   2694. PJ Martinez Posted: November 21, 2018 at 05:31 PM (#5790222)

"John Wall Could Own the East Sooner Than You Think" -- SI.com, July, 2017, just after he signed the extension (after taking a few days to think it over!)

In an era of superstar instability, Wall’s decision is extremely meaningful for the Wizards. The announcement came the same day Kyrie Irving requested a trade, weeks after Jimmy Butler and Paul George were traded, and in the same month Gordon Hayward announced he would be leaving the Utah Jazz. Amid the flurry of movement, Wall is deciding to stay with a team that could soon shoot to the top of the imploding East.

Seriously, who in Wall’s conference will be a contender at this time next year? If LeBron heads West and Kyrie leaves Ohio, the Cavs will freefall. Toronto’s core is older than Washington’s, and less talented to boot. Would you rather have the Wizards’ big three of Wall, Beal and Porter, or the Celtics’ likely three-max core of Isaiah Thomas, Al Horford and Hayward?

"Actually 2017 Is Very Good, John Wall Signed His Max Extension" -- Deadspin, same day as above

Once the Wizards decided to pay Otto Porter $106 million over the next four years, they needed John Wall to sign that extension—you cannot decide to continue trying to be good and then subtract John Wall from your 49-win roster.
   2695. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 21, 2018 at 05:46 PM (#5790224)
gonzaga up 14 on dook late in the 1st half.
   2696. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 21, 2018 at 05:50 PM (#5790225)
gonzaga up 14 on dook late in the 1st half.
dook closed the half on a 6-0 run and is down 8 going into the locker room.

they're going to win by 30.
   2697. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 21, 2018 at 06:40 PM (#5790235)
   2698. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 21, 2018 at 06:53 PM (#5790236)
"Markelle Fultz is having a wrist issue examined next week and would prefer a move to a new team, sources tell @JaredWeissNBA, @DerekBodnerNBA and I.

@ShamsCharania & @DavidAldridgeDC also contributed to a new report, now on @TheAthleticNBA

https://theathletic.com/669684/2018/11/21/markelle-fultz-dealing-with-wrist-issue-on-top-of-shoulder-woes-sources-say-he-would-prefer-a-move-to-new-team/"

when jimmy butler wanted out of MIN, he went to practice, made towns, wiggins and teague into his #######, then went on ESPN and owned it in a 1 on 1 interview with rachel nichols.

when fultz wants out, he fakes an injury after getting benched, whines to his agent and leaks the story to a website.

GTFOOHWTBS.


if fultz wants out, all he has to do is tell the truth (or ####### lie, for that matter) about how he injured his shoulder in a motorcycle accident. that would let the sixers void his contract so then he'd be free to sign with anyone he wants.
As another source of intrigue, there remain uncertainty as to the origin of Fultz’s shoulder woes. There has been uncorroborated speculation that Fultz might have suffered the injury in a motorcycle accident that occurred at some point in 2017. If such speculation is true and if the injury occurred after Fultz signed with the 76ers on July 8, 2017, the 76ers would arguably have grounds to suspend Fultz or even void his contract. The NBA’s uniform player contract expressly prohibits players “driving or riding on a motorcycle or moped or four-wheeling/off-roading of any kind” without the written consent of the team.
link
   2699. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 21, 2018 at 07:16 PM (#5790240)
Woj weighs in:
"Raymond Brothers, the agent for Sixers guard Markelle Fultz, tells ESPN: “I have given no indication to Elton Brand or anyone else that Markelle would prefer to be traded. My focus is to get Markelle healthy. End of story.”'
   2700. PJ Martinez Posted: November 21, 2018 at 07:23 PM (#5790242)
if fultz wants out, all he has to do is tell the truth (or ####### lie, for that matter) about how he injured his shoulder in a motorcycle accident. that would let the sixers void his contract so then he'd be free to sign with anyone he wants.
Yes, that seems extremely likely, and definitely in his best interests.
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