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Friday, October 05, 2018

OT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom knew the old thread would get closed, thus detracting from what this site is really about: the baseball playoffs, maybe?

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 05, 2018 at 03:43 PM | 6856 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   4401. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: January 06, 2019 at 08:05 PM (#5802923)
Or Becky Hammon, I’d be fine there, too. Let Saunders coach out the season, trade Rose, Taj, Teague, and try to move Wiggins.
   4402. tshipman Posted: January 06, 2019 at 08:37 PM (#5802933)
The timing on this move seems terrible.
   4403. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: January 06, 2019 at 08:52 PM (#5802935)
Better now then after he trades picks and Saric for some dire retread in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs.
   4404. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: January 06, 2019 at 08:55 PM (#5802937)
The timing on this move seems terrible.


True, but at this point tomorrow is always going to be a worse day than today to fire the guy.
   4405. JC in DC Posted: January 06, 2019 at 09:03 PM (#5802940)
I'm sure we all can't wait for Jeff van Gundy's take on this.
   4406. aberg Posted: January 06, 2019 at 09:51 PM (#5802945)
I'm not going to shed any tears for Thibs. It's a little weird to do it while they've won a couple convincing games in a row, but it was going to happen at some point between now and June. Maybe Taylor felt like him being the tab the risk of harming some of the younger guys, or that he'd seriously trade someone in the interest of winning a few games. I'm pretty much all the way out on Wiggins, but I'd they can find a way out from under him, kat, saric, okogie, tyus, and Roco are a good, fairly young core.

I think that even a bad coach could put this team to a top 10 ortg. The defense has hardly improved. I think the only upgrade was going from an unmotivated butler to roco. He has been an unsuccessful coach.

I assume Hoiberg will get the job and that's fine. I said before that I want the next coach and gm to be the most boring hires possible. He fits that mold.
   4407. JC in DC Posted: January 06, 2019 at 09:55 PM (#5802947)
I ask this seriously: is there any chance they go to McHale?
   4408. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 06, 2019 at 10:00 PM (#5802949)
This means only Pop is in a dual coach-GM/POBO role, right?
   4409. maccoach57 Posted: January 06, 2019 at 10:12 PM (#5802952)
The Spurs have a GM, RC Buford. But yes, Popovich is Coach/POBO.
   4410. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: January 06, 2019 at 10:15 PM (#5802955)
still a good one:
605. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 14, 2016 at 04:28 PM (#5265156)
oh, this is a good one: who was the worst GM in wolves history?
607. aberg Posted: July 14, 2016 at 04:47 PM (#5265168)
oh, this is a good one: who was the worst GM in wolves history?
Yes.
608. Fourth True Outcome Posted: July 14, 2016 at 04:55 PM (#5265173)
How bad could a Wolves GM be and be the best Wolves GM ever?
3 out of 4 ain't bad:
635. CFBF Rides The Zombie Ice Dragon Posted: July 15, 2016 at 01:11 AM (#5265477)
You know, it would be hilarious if Simmons won Rookie of the Year, Saric made an instant impact, Okafor took a sophomore leap and the Sixers catapulted themselves to respectability one year after firing Hinkie.
all of the above:
2. "Who wants to sex Mutombo?"
I know this is sacrilege to suggest, but I knew a guy in college who was in the apartment when this happened (I know, I'm sure 40,000 people were "in the apartment") and he insists that the line was "Who wants to suck Dikembe?"
#647, It was in an apartment? I thought the quote came from when he entered the Atlanta Gold Club. It's definitely in urban legend status, so even if there is some truth there I'm sure the details are all over the place.
I always heard that it was at a party at Georgetown. Alozno Mourning basically confirmed it, and they went to Georgetown together but never played in the NBA together FWIW.
Doing a little google research, seems like Dikembe used that line quite extensively, starting in Georgetown and continuing through his NBA career.
Greatest pick up line EVER.
"Who wants to suck Dikembe" is clever, or, uh, "clever" in the 14-yr-old boy sense. OTOH, "Who wants to sex Mutumbo" has the inexplicable rightness of genius. Witnesses be damned!
I heard it was at The Tombs (Georgetown bar), the first time he'd ever had alcohol, drunkenly bellowed out to no one in particular.

That's close to the story I heard. That version placed it in the apartment complex across the street from the Tombs. I forget the name of the apartments, but the academic building is called Walsh hall and the apartments are attached to it with a central courtyard.



the laughing man.
Stuck at the office and I got SL on in the background. Someone on Minny just had a pretty sick block and Thibs went all this on us:

the laughing man.

I was sick of him at the end but I can't deny the man loves basketball. Maybe a bit too much.
691. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: July 19, 2016 at 12:49 PM (#5267581)
Sean Highkin ‏@highkin
Denzel Valentine on the idea that Summer League doesn't matter: "The people who are saying that have never won Summer League."
I have a new favorite Bull.
the laughing man.
   4411. tshipman Posted: January 06, 2019 at 10:15 PM (#5802956)
I assume Hoiberg will get the job and that's fine. I said before that I want the next coach and gm to be the most boring hires possible. He fits that mold.


I kinda feel like when it comes to coaches, there are (incredibly oversimplified):

bad coaches--very few of these in the NBA today. Boylan may be one.
just another guy--lots of these
difference makers--maybe 5 of these guys in the NBA. But coaches lose their fastball just like players do.

I kinda think it's a mistake to hire anyone who has proven to be at best just another guy. I'd rather roll the dice with someone new than go with a retreat I know isn't great. Here's a list of guys who won championships in the last 30 years as "just another guy" retread coaches:

1. Doc Rivers
2. Larry Brown
3. Rick Carlisle

I think all of those guys were COY before they got rehired, also. I wouldn't hire Hoiberg.

   4412. maccoach57 Posted: January 06, 2019 at 10:37 PM (#5802958)
bad coaches--very few of these in the NBA today. Boylan may be one.
just another guy--lots of these
difference makers--maybe 5 of these guys in the NBA. But coaches lose their fastball just like players do.


Almost entirely agreed, with the caveat that the "just another guy" guys, are, IMO, usually pretty smart and competent--so the guy on the other bench usually is as well.
   4413. aberg Posted: January 06, 2019 at 10:44 PM (#5802962)
I mostly agree with you, tship. Only caveat is that I think there might be more than 5 difference making coaches right now. Pop, Carlisle, spo, Kerr for sure. Strong arguments for bud, doc, dantoni, stotts, Stevens. I worked say that every one of those guys makes a real, positive difference. I personally love Casey, too.
   4414. tshipman Posted: January 07, 2019 at 12:12 AM (#5802977)
I mostly agree with you, tship. Only caveat is that I think there might be more than 5 difference making coaches right now. Pop, Carlisle, spo, Kerr for sure. Strong arguments for bud, doc, dantoni, stotts, Stevens. I worked say that every one of those guys makes a real, positive difference. I personally love Casey, too.


I think you have to make a Finals before I really consider you a difference maker.

The skillset for taking a decent team and bringing them to the playoffs is very different from taking a team to a championship. Look at Doc--he never managed to make those Clippers teams better than the sum of their parts. He does a better job with a bunch of random dudes.
   4415. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 07, 2019 at 01:08 AM (#5802984)
Of course, Rivers has taken teams to the Finals twie.
   4416. tshipman Posted: January 07, 2019 at 01:45 AM (#5802987)
Of course, Rivers has taken teams to the Finals twice.


Do you think Doc is a difference maker as a coach?

I will admit to not really knowing what to think about Doc. I didn't think much of him in Orlando. I thought he was really good with Boston, getting them to buy in quickly. I thought he would take the Clippers to contention as a huuuuuge upgrade over Vinny Del Negro, and they were basically the same team until CP3 left. He's been very good with the more rag-tag assemblage of talent they have now, although they're not really contending.

After Thibs had so much success in Chicago, I thought Boston was all Thibs' system. Thibs later struggles and Doc's successes post Chris Paul have gotten me to rethink that a bit, but I still am not really sure what I think of Doc. To me, he's more like D'Antoni than Pop or Spo.
   4417. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 07, 2019 at 02:02 AM (#5802989)
aberg, I am very curious to understand what Stotts has done to get himself on your list of maybe difference makers.

I know it might be crazy at this point, but I'm still not convinced Kerr is a true difference makers. I tend to be in the "Mark Jackson was terrible" camp re: the transition and he has had an incredible set of weapons at his disposal. Admittedly, unless/until GSW's roster falls apart, this is an unfalsifiable claim, so not really fair, and he does surely get credit for setting up an environment where these people want to stay (probably an underrated aspect of the coach).

Pop and Stevens are the only two coaches I'm confident are positive difference makers right now. I would bet there are another couple but too much noise to really know who (maybe from among Carlisle, Spoelstra, Malone, Doc, Kerr, McMillan).

The one coach that I feel much more positively about than at the beginning of the year is Billy Donovan, who at the start of the year I thought was bad, and now think is probably a tiny bit above average.

Boylen seems really terrible.
   4418. Tin Angel Posted: January 07, 2019 at 02:35 AM (#5802991)
I know it might be crazy at this point, but I'm still not convinced Kerr is a true difference makers.


My go to is always, putting the supposed best coaches on the worst teams. Would the Magic be any better with Kerr as their coach? How about if Brad Stevens coached the Cavs? I kind of feel like there is a very top level two or three person tier like Pop where he somehow raises a team above it's talent level.
   4419. maccoach57 Posted: January 07, 2019 at 02:37 AM (#5802992)
I also agree with the idea in 4418.
   4420. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: January 07, 2019 at 05:37 AM (#5802995)
I think that like with most managers, a bad coach can do much more damage than a good one can produce success.
   4421. jmurph Posted: January 07, 2019 at 09:47 AM (#5803013)
I hope Minnesota just goes with the interim through the rest of the year and does an actual search. I'm not sure what kinds of names will be out there, but maybe someone like Stotts becomes available if Portland flames out in the first round again. This just seems like a pivotal hire for them- assuming the guy they get stays for 3 years, that's the timeline for when stars on big contracts start getting itchy about playing for a winner. I don't have any great ideas, but I just feel like they need some boring competence, like (to use examples of unavailable guys) Casey or McMillan.
   4422. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: January 07, 2019 at 10:08 AM (#5803020)
I was into the idea of Jaeger. I can see the Kings firing him for no good reason at the end of the season.
   4423. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: January 07, 2019 at 10:10 AM (#5803021)
But yeah, let Saunders play out the string. Do a normal coaching search at the end of the season.
   4424. spivey Posted: January 07, 2019 at 10:18 AM (#5803025)
On the one hand, I do agree that most of the coaches are pretty interchangeable. On the other hand, I don't know if that really *should* be the case.

Just thinking about how much shot charts have changed in the last 10 years, there would have been a lot of free points for teams that started deemphasizing post ups and midrange jumpers earlier. I do think it's a copycat league, but there's still variations. I'm sure part of this may be the work of analytics teams which isn't directly the head coach's responsibility, as well as I imagine there are new analytics and some other strategies that seem less widely adopted (limiting opponent's FTA is one) where coaches may want to do it but struggle to implement it into how the team actually plays.
   4425. JC in DC Posted: January 07, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5803037)
D'Antoni is underrated above; he's got as much claim as almost anyone to being a difference maker.
   4426. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 07, 2019 at 10:41 AM (#5803041)
bad coaches--very few of these in the NBA today. Boylan may be one.

Maybe. But we know for sure Boylen is a bad coach. /dadjoke

D'Antoni is underrated above; he's got as much claim as almost anyone to being a difference maker.

Absolutely. He's like Don Nelson - even if they didn't get there themselves, their impact on the game was just massive.

Pop and Stevens are the only two coaches I'm confident are positive difference makers right now. I would bet there are another couple but too much noise to really know who (maybe from among Carlisle, Spoelstra, Malone, Doc, Kerr, McMillan).

See, this is a rehash, but it's absolute forking bananas to me to claim Stevens is a definite difference maker and Kerr is a maybe.
   4427. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: January 07, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5803044)
Lately I've been entertaining a sneaky suspicion that Brad Stevens is somewhat less of a genius when Al Horford isn't out there being Al Horford.
   4428. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 07, 2019 at 10:53 AM (#5803050)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 3m3 minutes ago

Houston has traded guard Michael Carter Williams and cash to Chicago, league source tells ESPN.


Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 38s38 seconds ago

Chicago will send a future conditional second-round pick to complete deal, source says. Salary cap move for the Rockets, who would've had to guarantee Carter-Williams deal for the season by 5 PM today.


What the ####### fuck is this ####### bullshit?

EDIT: Ok, but exactly how much money is Jerry getting to pocket for doing this favor?

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 3m3 minutes ago

Chicago will waive Michael Carter-Williams, league source tells ESPN. His contract would become guaranteed for season at 5 PM today.
   4429. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: January 07, 2019 at 11:16 AM (#5803065)
The nanny filter really confuses me.
   4430. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 07, 2019 at 12:01 PM (#5803086)
Uh

Former NBA player Hedo Turkoglu, now a chief adviser to the President of Turkey, says comments by Enes Kanter about the country are nothing more than an ongoing "political smear campaign" by the New York Knicks center.

Kanter earlier this week said he would not travel with the Knicks to London for a game against the Washington Wizards on Jan. 17 because he fears for his life because of his ongoing clash with Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan.


"We know that [Kanter] has not been able to travel to many countries due to visa issues since 2017," Turkoglu said in a statement posted to Twitter on Monday. "In other words, Kanter can't enter the UK not because of fears for life as he claims but due to passport and visa issues. This being the long-known truth, he is trying to get the limelight with irrational justifications and political remarks.

"Such remarks constitute another example of the political smear campaign Kanter has been conducting against Turkey as well as his efforts to attribute importance to himself by covering up the contradictions in his sports career. ... It is obvious that this person's remarks are irrational and distort the truth."

Kanter reportedly was indicted by the Istanbul Cyber Crimes Investigation Bureau last year because of "hurtful and humiliating" comments made about Turkoglu, the president of the Turkish Basketball Federation, on social media.
   4431. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: January 07, 2019 at 12:09 PM (#5803094)
As of Monday, Simmons is averaging 16.4 points and shooting 57.4 percent from the floor, accurate enough for 14th in the NBA. He ranks sixth in assists (7.9) and 20th in rebounds (9.2). He’s seen meaningful bumps in field goal percentage, true shooting percentage, and, particularly, free throw rate; he’s now getting to the stripe, proportionate to shot attempts, as much as James Harden
...
among leaguewide lineups that have logged more than 200 minutes, Sixers starters have been outstanding; their net rating of 15.3 is third best in the NBA.
...
In Tuesday night’s game against the Clippers, Simmons bricked a 17-footer early in the shot clock and the response from the online commentariat was giddy celebration. People are encouraging a basketball genius to play like Jordan Clarkson.
...
Another way Simmons could placate the howling mobs would be to catapult a few 3s like Milwaukee star Giannis Antetokounmpo, whose 17.6 percent rate from deep has the graceful touch of a Plymouth Voyager tumbling down a mountain.
...
Simmons has far more in common with Denver center Nikola Jokic than Kemba Walker or Steph Curry. He’s 20th in the league in post-ups and shoots 50 percent on his attempts from the trenches, comparable to lugs like Enes Kanter and Blake Griffin. He’s currently tied with Embiid for 13th in the league in dunks.
...
No one gets bent out of shape when Montrezl Harrell or Steven Adams eschews uncontested jumpers.
...
The real concern is separating the pair from guards who struggle to shoot; according to NBAWowy’s numbers, lineups with Simmons and Embiid on the floor but Markelle Fultz and T.J. McConnell sidelined have an offensive rating of 116.4 in 560 minutes.
link
   4432. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: January 07, 2019 at 12:34 PM (#5803110)
On the last page, someone pushed for less playing time for George Hill and more for Pat Connaughton, arguing that Hill was cooked. That struck me as not jibing with what I've seen but not worth arguing about, but this caught my eye on Bucks twitter today:

George Hill has an exceptional net rating paired with literally anybody else on the team. I think he's been a great addition.
   4433. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 07, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5803117)
Do you think Doc is a difference maker as a coach?


Most people don't seem to, which points out the difficulty of 'been to a Finals' as the litmus test. I think he is a good coach, with the right roster, but not a great one.
   4434. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 07, 2019 at 12:52 PM (#5803119)
I've long had the mental model that there are three broad areas where coaches have an effect: culture, broad tactical planning (team style of play), and granular tactical adjustment (in game/in series). I think the last is typically pretty evident to those of us on the couch, the second somewhat evident, and the first is often largely obscure, or too complicated to parse out from what you can learn through the media.

That tends to make me think that the bulk of what differentiates competent from truly great coaching is publicly evident only through secondhand information and long-term success (i.e. Pop). Kerr seems like he's a great cultural coach, which you need for a team like the Ws. (See also Phil Jackson, of course.) Stevens seems to be pretty good at all three, but my read on that is also probably biased by my fandom. More than anything else, I think it's tricky to make any real absolute claims about the quality of a (non-Boylan-level) coach.
   4435. jmurph Posted: January 07, 2019 at 01:18 PM (#5803132)
which points out the difficulty of 'been to a Finals' as the litmus test.

I'm also surprised anyone here would use this criteria. Just think of the number and variety of coaches LeBron has had in the Finals. Scott Brooks was up 1-0 in the Finals once!
   4436. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 07, 2019 at 02:05 PM (#5803156)
   4437. jmurph Posted: January 07, 2019 at 02:19 PM (#5803163)
I've come across the author of that Ringer/Ben Simmons piece on twitter before and let's just say I'm not totally sure he's isn't stiggles.
   4438. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: January 07, 2019 at 02:24 PM (#5803164)
I've come across the author of that Ringer/Ben Simmons piece on twitter before and let's just say I'm not totally sure he's isn't stiggles.
it's also the same guy who broke the colangelo tweeter scandal.
   4439. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 07, 2019 at 02:27 PM (#5803166)
it's also the same guy who broke the colangelo tweeter scandal.

If that's not FULL STIGGLES I don't know what is.
   4440. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: January 07, 2019 at 02:33 PM (#5803169)
actually, you do:
2051. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 17, 2018 at 06:58 PM (#5655516)
I thought I was ready for FULL STIGGLES; I was not ready for FULL STIGGLES.



that article is, at most, 15% FULL 57i66135.
   4441. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 07, 2019 at 02:42 PM (#5803172)
Oh, I didn't mean the article itself, I meant exposing the Colangelo family drama as a way of forcing the GM out would be the sort of high dudgeon I associate with the FULL STIGGLES highwire act.
   4442. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 07, 2019 at 03:31 PM (#5803194)
I've come across the author of that Ringer/Ben Simmons piece on twitter before and let's just say I'm not totally sure he's isn't stiggles.


I unfollowed him a while back because of that.
   4443. jmurph Posted: January 07, 2019 at 03:36 PM (#5803195)
Also the gist of the article is "these mouth breathers all want him to miss bad shots, the absolute dipshits!" Which, no one wants him to miss bad shots, they want him to get good enough at making jump shots that he might be willing to occasionally take one in a game. Seems pretty straight forward.
   4444. Rally Posted: January 07, 2019 at 03:53 PM (#5803202)
D'Antoni is underrated above; he's got as much claim as almost anyone to being a difference maker.


With the right roster. He looked pretty bad coaching NY and LA for a 6 year stretch.
   4445. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: January 07, 2019 at 03:54 PM (#5803203)
With the right roster. He looked pretty bad coaching NY and LA for a 6 year stretch.

Not so much right roster as right personality. D'antoni's flaw is in managing personalities/adjusting to guys who don't want to play his way.
   4446. aberg Posted: January 07, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5803206)
aberg, I am very curious to understand what Stotts has done to get himself on your list of maybe difference makers.


He's probably the most marginal one on the list given the lack of big success for his teams. There are two reasons I included him on that second tier. The first is that every other coach who talks about him raves about his genius level knowledge of x's and o's. The second is that players tend to only get better when they get to Portland. Nurkic, Harkless, and Aminu were basically castoffs before they got there and they are 3/5 of a starting lineup on a good team. He got more out of guys like Napier and Crabbe than anyone else has.
   4447. spivey Posted: January 07, 2019 at 04:04 PM (#5803209)
On the last page, someone pushed for less playing time for George Hill and more for Pat Connaughton, arguing that Hill was cooked. That struck me as not jibing with what I've seen but not worth arguing about, but this caught my eye on Bucks twitter today:

George Hill has an exceptional net rating paired with literally anybody else on the team. I think he's been a great addition.


That was me. That's interesting. His on/off numbers are good. It looks like defensively they're about the same with him on/off, but offensively they're playing significantly better with him on the court. He's not turning the ball over at all, which is good. His distance shooting is meh, but buoyed up by high 2pt%. It's something I'm interested keeping an eye on since he doesn't have good box score stats, efficiency, or defense and the sample size is relatively small.

He doesn't strike me as a guy that can really be trusted to make a play right now, but perhaps he doesn't need to.
   4448. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: January 07, 2019 at 04:44 PM (#5803216)
The nanny filter really confuses me.

It's like a PG-13 movie. You get one fuck. But if you try and use more than one ####, then #### you, you ###.
   4449. JC in DC Posted: January 07, 2019 at 05:01 PM (#5803224)
I am not holding NY against Mike D'antoni.
   4450. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: January 07, 2019 at 05:41 PM (#5803233)
It's like a PG-13 movie. You get one ####.
But it better not be a ####### gerund.
   4451. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 07, 2019 at 07:37 PM (#5803252)
As apparently I'm the thread's Patrick McCaw updater, now that Cleveland is involved things have (of course) gotten weird. Apparently Cleveland waived his non-guaranteed 2 yr/6m deal, making him a UFA. The Warriors aren't commenting on whether they're going to ask the NBA to look into this, so who knows where this odd, unimportant saga will go next. McCaw has the negotiating freedom he's been seeking all along, but basically no leverage, and the Cavs are acting shady.
   4452. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 07, 2019 at 07:46 PM (#5803255)
[4448] Paul George was in a movie?
   4453. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: January 07, 2019 at 07:47 PM (#5803256)
Can someone explain the Patrick McCaw contract situation to an NBA newbie? I don't quite understand all the terms being thrown around (I have basically no idea how contracts/free agency/etc work in the NBA at all; my only framework on this is MLB, which is pretty useless here.)
   4454. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 07, 2019 at 07:57 PM (#5803258)
Patrick McCaw, as a player at the end of his rookie contract, was eligible for restricted free agency, in which his team has the right to match any contract he is offered. As he had a down/injured year prior to becoming a restricted free agent, there wasn't much interest in him. The Warriors, as the team that controlled his rights, extended the qualifying offer of something like 1 yr/1.7 million dollars they had to to retain his rights as an RFA, and also made an offer of a 2 yr/5 million dollar contract. McCaw's team turned both down, a fairly unusual move, betting that another team would come in with a better offer that the Warriors would have to match or let him take. (Normally when a player is dissatisfied with the offers he gets in RFA the move is to sign the qualifying offer, which doesn't pay much but allows the player to become a full unrestricted free agent the following year.)

Cleveland offered him a 2 yr/6 mill contract recently, enough for him to save face and sign, but it was a non-guaranteed contract, and they waived him so that it wouldn't become guaranteed. If that's on the up-and-up he now becomes a full UFA, but it's unclear if the NBA is going to take issue with signing him to a contract with what sure seems like the express intent to waive him and get him into a different contract status.

I've been following it because spuring the qualifying offer and entering a standoff with your team without much leverage is not something people do, and I've been curious to see how it plays out for McCaw, who is a good-not-great young player.
   4455. JJ1986 Posted: January 07, 2019 at 08:07 PM (#5803264)
It might have been a little bit off, but it's not like Cleveland offered him $8 million this year. If the Warriors matched the offer, it would have cost them only a little more this year than their own offer to him and then they could have let him go or kept him next year.
   4456. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: January 07, 2019 at 08:30 PM (#5803274)
Who's McCaw's agent? My first thought is that McCaw's agent may have called in a favor to Cleveland, or Cleveland pre-emptively did him a solid.

(I looked it up and no, that's not what happened; McCaw's agent is listed by RealGM as a nobody named Marlon Harrison. Did McCaw separate from his previous agent when he refused to sign Golden State's offer?)
   4457. JJ1986 Posted: January 07, 2019 at 08:36 PM (#5803278)
McCaw may technically be repped by a lower level guy at the same agency, but every piece lists Bill Duffy as his agent.
   4458. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 07, 2019 at 09:05 PM (#5803285)
Pistons beat the Warriors on December 1 and were 13-7.
Blake's having a career season.
They're somehow going to be out of the Leastern Conference playoff chase by Super Bowl Sunday.
   4459. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: January 07, 2019 at 09:43 PM (#5803296)
Watching James Harden torch the Nuggets, I'm starting to understand why everyone who's not a Rockets fan hates him so much. Ugh, he's so aggravating: if you lag off him he makes everything, and if you play him close they just call you for a foul every time. He's unstoppable!
   4460. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: January 07, 2019 at 09:50 PM (#5803297)
The Nuggets are winning 52-20 if we only count 2-pointers.

They are.....not winning by real rules.
   4461. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: January 07, 2019 at 09:53 PM (#5803300)
Pistons beat the Warriors on December 1 and were 13-7.
Blake's having a career season.
They're somehow going to be out of the Leastern Conference playoff chase by Super Bowl Sunday.

trade machine: who says no?

PHI: blake griffin, trey burke, zaza pachulia
DET: markelle fultz, wilson chandler, mike muscala, amir johnson
NYK: furkan korkmaz
   4462. JC in DC Posted: January 07, 2019 at 10:06 PM (#5803304)
More importantly: what do Barry Bonds, Furkan Korkmaz, Kyle Kuzma, J-Lo, and I have in common?
   4463. maccoach57 Posted: January 07, 2019 at 10:18 PM (#5803307)
4462: if it is anything other than Astrological Sign, I may get uncomfortable. I am psyched that Jennifer Lopez made it into the NBA Thread.

Popovich tied Utah's long-time coach Jerry Sloan on the all-time wins list (3rd) tonight.
   4464. maccoach57 Posted: January 07, 2019 at 10:22 PM (#5803308)
Also Kobe Bryant stood up for Luke Walton on Twitter tonight. As noted I think Walton is "just another guy" but I do not blame him, either.
   4465. JC in DC Posted: January 07, 2019 at 10:28 PM (#5803311)
And for the Bears kicker. I like Kobe.
   4466. tshipman Posted: January 07, 2019 at 11:19 PM (#5803331)
which points out the difficulty of 'been to a Finals' as the litmus test.

I'm also surprised anyone here would use this criteria. Just think of the number and variety of coaches LeBron has had in the Finals. Scott Brooks was up 1-0 in the Finals once!


I think I phrased this poorly.

Making the finals is a necessary, but not sufficient criterion for being a great coach to me. There are no retired coaches that I can think of that I would characterize as difference makers who did not at least make a finals.

So I want guys to make the Finals first before I start talking about them as a difference maker. Quin Snyder, Brad Stevens, maybe throw Brett Brown or Kenny Atkinson in there, I want them all to make a Finals first before I consider them as a real difference maker as opposed to just a guy who was in the right place at the right time with the right group of guys.

At one point, people talked about Jason Kidd the same way they talk about Kenny Atkinson.
   4467. tshipman Posted: January 07, 2019 at 11:22 PM (#5803333)
Also, in the trade Brandon Ingram news already, somehow he took 21 shots tonight without taking a 3. As a supposed "shooter"!!!

JaVale looks so sad without LeBron in. There is only one player on the Lakers who can run a freaking PnR with a big.
   4468. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 07, 2019 at 11:54 PM (#5803340)
On the coach thing, kind of similar to the above, but I think of there being three different types of great coaching (it is perhaps unclear how many you need to have to be considered a great coach).

1. Turning an uninspiring collection of players into a playoff team. This is about your system being solid, fundamentals, instilling discipline, etc.. Some examples are Clifford with the Horcats or Spoelstra with the recent Heat. I think a sufficiently good coach in this department can turn almost any team into a playoff team.

2. Turning a playoff team into a contender. This is about figuring out how to maximize the superpowers of your star players, developing people into the best version of themselves, personalizing and adapting to the players you have. Some examples here are Stevens with the recent Celtics, D'Antoni with the recent Rockets, Stan Van Gundy with the Magic.

3. Turning a contender into a champion. This is largely about the playoffs, and figuring out how to coach against a specific opponent and then make adjustments, seven games in a row. Note that many coaches may have the ability to do this but never really have the contender in the first place.

Of current coaches, I think only Popovich has really demonstrated skill in all three. Spoelstra has done 1 and 3. D'Antoni has done 2 only -- he failed at 1 with the Knicks and failed at 3 with the Suns -- and that just doesn't seem sufficient to me (Pop schooled him in #3 two years ago). Stevens has done 1 and 2, but not yet 3 (but he's young). Doc seems to have done 1 and 3 but failed at 2 with the CP3 / Blake / Jordan Clips. Kerr has done 3 and maybe 2 depending on how you count, but has not had the opportunity to do 1. Carlisle has demonstrated all at times, but maybe not any of them consistently.
   4469. Roger McDowell spit on me! Posted: January 08, 2019 at 05:52 AM (#5803356)
Matching McCaw's offer sheet would also have cost the Warriors a little over 11 million in additional luxury taxes this year alone plus used their last roster spot. McKinnie is filling McCaw's role fairly well and they want to keep that last spot open for a buyout big, at least until they know Boogie is healthy enough to give them 15 quality minutes a game.
   4470. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 08, 2019 at 06:00 AM (#5803357)
The Nuggets are winning 52-20 if we only count 2-pointers.

They are.....not winning by real rules.


If Jim Boylen has his way though... These quotes came after a game the Bulls lost by 17 on Sunday:
“We got to play better defense,” Boylen said. “We lost the game tonight because our defense was poor. They made shots. They got to where they wanted to get to and they made shots. We can’t give up 117 at home. So I don’t want to make it all about our offense. We can’t give up 117 at home. I’m disappointed in that.”

Boylen started his post-game statement by asking the final tally in the battle of paint points. He didn’t have his glasses, so the tiny numbers printed at the bottom left of the stat sheet resting atop the dais in front of Boylen didn’t mean anything. He couldn’t see it. So I did him a solid. I told him 62-46, Bulls. He chose to start there with his comments.

"I do like 62 (points) in the paint,” he said. “I think we could have 80 if we could finish a play better. We’ll work on that and keep growing.”

Next came questions about LaVine. “I’m proud of Zach LaVine,” Boylen said. “He got 27 points on two 3s. That’s, to me, who he’s got to be. Drive that ball and attack, attack. Hopefully we can get some free throws as we go forward for him. But I love that, 27 on two 3s. That’s who I want him to be is a driver and an aggressive downhill guy.”

Finally, this when I asked if he has a number of 3-point attempts he’d like the Bulls to average: “We haven’t talked about a number like that. Take your open shots, but we’re focused on trying to get the ball downhill, trying to drive the ball, trying to get paint points and then spray out for open shots.”


Bulls took 18 3PA to the Nets 46. Maybe he's also taking Pops dislike of 3's to heart (did you know he used to coach for Pops?).
   4471. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: January 08, 2019 at 06:57 AM (#5803358)
D'Antoni has done 2 only -- he failed at 1 with the Knicks

The Knicks were tanking for LeBron for his first two years. In year 3 he got Amar'e (plus 1/3 of a season of Melo) and a bunch of forgettable guys to the playoffs. In year 4 he was riding Chandler/Lin to another potential playoff appearance and then the Melo beef happened and he quit. Perhaps that's not enough to meet your criteria, but I don't think D'antoni's first two years in NY are in any way relevant to a discussion of his merits as a coach.
   4472. JC in DC Posted: January 08, 2019 at 09:24 AM (#5803369)
[4471] completely agree. As I said, you can't count NY against D'Antoni.
   4473. jmurph Posted: January 08, 2019 at 09:38 AM (#5803371)
Making the finals is a necessary, but not sufficient criterion for being a great coach to me. There are no retired coaches that I can think of that I would characterize as difference makers who did not at least make a finals.

So I think I broadly support this on paper, especially when we're talking long coaching careers, but I think it kind of breaks down a bit in practice. Especially when you do it in reverse and look at the coaches that have made a Finals. Or two, in Byron Scott's case! David Blatt was absolutely beclowned by his players at every opportunity, and his shorthanded team won two games against one of the best teams of all time. The aforementioned Scott Brooks. Lue has a ring as a coach because LeBron and Kyrie went scorched earth for a couple games, despite the fact that in 3ish years his teams played defense for a grand total of like 9 minutes. So I guess I'm suggesting, and I admit this logic isn't as sound as 1+1=2, but if you can be a not particularly great coach and make multiple Finals, even win some, surely you can be a great coach and miss out due to other circumstances.

But then here's where I admit I can't think of any retired coaches who a. didn't make an appearance and b. are considered to be great coaches.

Final thought: what if Durant finishes out his career alongside Curry? How many Finals appearances will be available to non-Warriors teams in the western conference during that run?
   4474. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: January 08, 2019 at 09:40 AM (#5803372)
Making the finals is a necessary, but not sufficient criterion for being a great coach to me. There are no retired coaches that I can think of that I would characterize as difference makers who did not at least make a finals.

I think that there are a variety of ways to be a great coach; and that there are very few (maybe no) coaches who are great at all of those ways. For instance, what about Don Nelson?
   4475. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 08, 2019 at 10:11 AM (#5803378)
There are no retired coaches that I can think of that I would characterize as difference makers who did not at least make a finals.


Highest win% by coaches that didn't make a finals (min 200 games):

Billy Donovan: .614
Danny Ainge: .602
Tom Thibodeau: .589
Jerry West: .589
Joe Lapchick: .569

Hmmm. Maybe it does work.
   4476. jmurph Posted: January 08, 2019 at 10:38 AM (#5803385)
AROM just alluded to this in another thread, and wow, I did not realize this: DeRozan has 7 made threes this season. 7-40! In 41 games. That's wild.
   4477. aberg Posted: January 08, 2019 at 12:29 PM (#5803439)
Has anyone noticed how great Gallinari has been this year? He's over 44% on >5 3pa per game and 92% on aboug 6 FTA/g. He's 5th among SF in RPM. He has also only missed one game, which is probably the most surprising stat. He's a big part of why the Clippers have been better than expected.
   4478. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 08, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5803445)
   4479. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: January 08, 2019 at 12:49 PM (#5803452)
[4477] * Raises hand * My hope has been that he would sneak into the ASG, but (1) SF/wing is too loaded and he lacks name recognition (2) Tobias Harris averages more PPG and will likely get more credit for LAC's performance.
   4480. Tin Angel Posted: January 08, 2019 at 12:49 PM (#5803453)
From this Deadspin article:

During his best season in Brooklyn (2012-2013), Lopez attempted nearly three-quarters of his shots from within 10 feet, making 42 percent between three and 10 feet and a whopping 69.8 percent around the rim, per Basketball Reference.

Now? Lopez has adapted to the modern NBA trends to a hilarious degree. Through 39 games with the Bucks this year, Lopez is attempting 70 percent of his shots from downtown, and he’s making them at a 37.5 percent clip. Brook Lopez, immobile big man, has turned into Brook Lopez, court spacer. He’s shooting more threes per game than he is grabbing rebounds, and he’s hitting at a better rate than Klay Thompson, for fuck’s sake.


I'm kind of fascinated by how some guys can learn to shoot 3's and others can't. Why can Brook Lopez over the course of a season or two become a good 3 point shooter and someone like Draymond Green just gets worse?
   4481. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: January 08, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5803457)
It's obviously not perfect but there's a reason people look at free throw percentage as a proxy for shooting ability. Dray's career FT% is about 70%, Brook's is about 80%. Brook's always been a really good shooter, the league just prioritized different skills at the beginning of his career.
   4482. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: January 08, 2019 at 01:25 PM (#5803461)
Robin Lopez's FT% is about the same as Brook's. I guess since he plays for Chicago we'll never know if Robin could have developed a late career three point stroke as well as Brook.

It does make me wonder which team is going to acquire Robin Lopez this offseason and tell him to start pumpin' those threes.
   4483. JJ1986 Posted: January 08, 2019 at 01:29 PM (#5803463)
It does make me wonder which team is going to acquire Robin Lopez this offseason and tell him to start pumpin' those threes.
Nets, Warriors, Lakers or Knicks.
   4484. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 08, 2019 at 01:53 PM (#5803470)
A good thread on how Gobert guarded Giannis last night:
https://twitter.com/ry_nguyen/status/1082520037238353921
Quick mini thread. One of the things I wonder if teams might explore is putting a 5 on Giannis since it was pretty effective when Gobert was defending him. Most teams often have a 3/4 & the defense has to double, dig + show multiple bodies to shrink floor.


Giannis was just 13-30 from the field and 4-6 from the line, and only got two assists as well. The rest of the defense was not as good, but Rudy was phenomenal and it will be interesting to see if other teams with good defensive centers will try this.
   4485. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: January 08, 2019 at 01:59 PM (#5803473)
Just out of curiosity I looked up everyone with a FT% > 80 with decent playing time, and the only one on the list who doesn't really shoot threes is Enes Kanter. And now that I clicked on him, it looks like he's shooting 35% on an attempt every 2 games, so I guess Fizdale has him shooting a few this year.

Going down the list, there's Boban and Ayton at 78% and then the cut off seems to be around 75%, where there's a bunch of guys around and under that line that don't really shoot threes: Nurkic, Bam Adebayo, Zaza, Sabonis etc. The list also really makes clear that almost everyone in the NBA shoots threes now.

edit to include the link. sorry that it won't let me hyperlink in edit.
https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=FT_PCT&dir=-1&CF=GP*G*10:FTM*G*1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular Season
   4486. aberg Posted: January 08, 2019 at 02:02 PM (#5803476)
Nets, Warriors, Lakers or Knicks.


He might be a little too get for GS to get him on a minimum deal, but that's exactly the sort of thing that would happen and would make everyone roll their eyes in May and June.
   4487. aberg Posted: January 08, 2019 at 02:03 PM (#5803477)
Kanter is also such a dominant offensive rebounder that there's a real tradeoff to pulling him away from the rim. Probably worth it in the long run, but there are schematic questions to consider with someone like him.
   4488. jmurph Posted: January 08, 2019 at 02:06 PM (#5803479)
Giannis was just 13-30 from the field and 4-6 from the line, and only got two assists as well. The rest of the defense was not as good, but Rudy was phenomenal and it will be interesting to see if other teams with good defensive centers will try this.

Horford guarded him quite a bit in the playoffs last year. I remember it being mildly effective, but the series did go 7, so...
   4489. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: January 08, 2019 at 02:17 PM (#5803482)
Yeah, Horford is one of the better Giannis defenders. I agree that Gobert did a good job against him last night too, but I would be careful assuming things that work for Gobert will work for other centers. He's pretty unique and generally Giannis is going to run right past most true 5s.

Giannis had a good quote about Rudy last night: "I'm still stronger than him, but he can get the bump and still contest the shot because he's so long. It was hard. It was hard trying to finish over him."
   4490. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 08, 2019 at 02:45 PM (#5803491)
Kanter is also such a dominant offensive rebounder that there's a real tradeoff to pulling him away from the rim. Probably worth it in the long run, but there are schematic questions to consider with someone like him.

I'm guessing it's probably not worth it. He'll always be a terrible defender, and right now his elite offensive rebounding and interior scoring are the only things keeping him in the rotation. Playing beyond the arc would jeopardize everything that makes him useful.

The guys who I think might benefit most from a 3-point transformation are Cody Zeller and Kyle O'Quinn. They fit the Brook/Vucevic mold of an all-around competent big man who could really elevate his offensive utility as a floor spacer.
   4491. aberg Posted: January 08, 2019 at 02:59 PM (#5803493)
I think of guys who are really valuable defensively but don't have a defined offensive role. Myles Turner would be a good one (that has been discussed a lot). Mahinmi, Valanciunas, Adebayo, Noel...

The first name that came to mind was Javale, but that's too preposterous.
   4492. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: January 08, 2019 at 03:21 PM (#5803496)
I think of guys who are really valuable defensively but don't have a defined offensive role. Myles Turner would be a good one (that has been discussed a lot). Mahinmi, Valanciunas, Adebayo, Noel...

?

And he's been shooting them a bit more this year. It is a sight to see.
   4493. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: January 08, 2019 at 03:26 PM (#5803498)
Giannis was just 13-30 from the field and 4-6 from the line, and only got two assists as well. The rest of the defense was not as good, but Rudy was phenomenal and it will be interesting to see if other teams with good defensive centers will try this.


I will be interested to see that, too. But having a good defensive center is not at all the same thing as having Rudy Gobert.
   4494. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 08, 2019 at 03:32 PM (#5803503)
Yeah, Horford is one of the better Giannis defenders. I agree that Gobert did a good job against him last night too, but I would be careful assuming things that work for Gobert will work for other centers. He's pretty unique and generally Giannis is going to run right past most true 5s.

Giannis had a good quote about Rudy last night: "I'm still stronger than him, but he can get the bump and still contest the shot because he's so long. It was hard. It was hard trying to finish over him."


That is a good quote. I don't think there is any other center who could bother Giannis like Rudy, but I hope the Rockets try it with Capella and the Pelicans with Davis (in addition to Celtics using Horford again). I don't think either will be as successful as Rudy since their advantage over Rudy defensively is lateral movement and perimeter defense, but it will be interesting to see if they can do a better job than wings.
   4495. Master of the Horse Posted: January 08, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5803511)
Thanks for sharing the Giannis info. What was really great about the win was him raving about Thon Maker who came off the bench to hit some big shots in the fourth quarter. Maker has become an end of the bench guy but he showed up big last night.

There was earlier talk here on how Draymond would shut down Giannis if they met in the playoffs, and I still have not had that explained to me. The consensus I hear is that Green isn't playing to his usual standard while Giannis has taken another step this season. The two didn't meet when the two teams played so no current game samples to reference. Interested in what others have to say.
   4496. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: January 08, 2019 at 04:06 PM (#5803513)
Making the finals is a necessary, but not sufficient criterion for being a great coach to me. There are no retired coaches that I can think of that I would characterize as difference makers who did not at least make a finals.
Given the confounding effect that players have on coach evaluation, I'm surprised no one has called out the survivorship bias baked into this method. Getting to the finals is about the clearest possible signal that the coach didn't hold their team back, but unless you find a way to control for roster strength, I'm not convinced it's much more than that.

There's an excellent piece on Cleaning The Glass (paywalled, but worth it IMHO) about evaluating coaches; unsurprisingly, a heavy focus of the piece is on the intractability of evaluating coaching given available knowledge:
Perhaps, as David Berri of Wages of Wins found, most coaches are fairly interchangeable:

The majority of the coaches we looked at did not have a statistically significant impact on player performance. And some of these coaches are ranked among the all-time greats. Such findings suggest that the outcomes we observe for teams are mostly about the players, not the coaches. So teams that wish to improve should focus on the people in the uniforms, not the people wearing suits on the sidelines.

Or perhaps evaluating coaches without good data puts us squarely in a realm clouded by Bill James’ statistical fog. Perhaps coaches matter, even a lot, but we are unable to measure their true impact.

Because there are further problems here. Not only are coaches just one part of an array of moving parts that combine to produce team performance, but they make thousands of decisions over the course that we don’t have a good way to evaluate. We don’t get to see the counterfactual, what would have happened if the decision was made a different way.

Getting frustrated when coaches make decisions that don’t work out may be akin to getting upset when a player misses a wide open three. Sure, it seems like they should be able to make it, but even the best shooters in history miss wide open threes fairly routinely. Some decisions for coaches are 60-40 propositions. When they go against the team, that doesn’t necessarily mean the coach was wrong, it may simply be that the decision didn’t work out as hoped.

The way around this is something that is unfortunately not readily available to anyone outside the organization: an evaluation of the process, not the results.

and, most speculatively but also most interestingly,
Maybe, as David Berri argued, coaches are mostly interchangeable. But there’s a strong argument to be made that even if that was once the case, the value of coaches has rapidly risen as the nature of the game has changed.

Ethan Strauss ✔
@SherwoodStrauss
One question I have is if the game's strategic acceleration has made coaching more valuable, and to what extent.
When I grew up there was a lot of just dumping the ball into the post and waiting for a double team

The NBA of today is very different from that of even 10 and certainly 20 years ago. A confluences of factors, most notably the changes in illegal defense and the enforcement of hand-checking, skewed the game away from one-on-one play and toward team dynamics. An explosion of skill, fueled in part due to the increasing international popularity of the game, redefined what could be expected from players. Technology and data have opened up new perspectives on best practices.
   4497. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: January 08, 2019 at 04:08 PM (#5803515)
That is a good quote. I don't think there is any other center who could bother Giannis like Rudy, but I hope the Rockets try it with Capella and the Pelicans with Davis (in addition to Celtics using Horford again). I don't think either will be as successful as Rudy since their advantage over Rudy defensively is lateral movement and perimeter defense, but it will be interesting to see if they can do a better job than wings.

yeah, gobert was literally the defensive player of the year last year, so that's probably not a plug and play kind of thing.

if giannis is ripping you up, i guess it's worth trying with myles turner, hal jortsford, jarrett allen, and maybe ibaka, but you probably shouldn't expect the same results.
The guys who I think might benefit most from a 3-point transformation are Cody Zeller and Kyle O'Quinn. They fit the Brook/Vucevic mold of an all-around competent big man who could really elevate his offensive utility as a floor spacer.
favors, plumlee, carter, collins, okafor.
   4498. Master of the Horse Posted: January 08, 2019 at 04:11 PM (#5803516)
Has any player seen a similar jump in 3 point output like Lopez season to season? And not a 3 point guy coming off injury but a player who previously did not shoot that many threes making the leap to volume and acceptable efficiency?
   4499. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: January 08, 2019 at 04:13 PM (#5803520)
Has any player seen a similar jump in 3 point output like Lopez season to season? And not a 3 point guy coming off injury but a player who previously did not shoot that many threes making the leap to volume and acceptable efficiency?
spencer hawes.
paul millsap.
al horford.
demarcus cousins.
blake griffin.
marc gasol.
serge ibaka.
walter mccarty.
brian cook.
jahlil okafor.
raef lafrentz.
brad miller.
   4500. aberg Posted: January 08, 2019 at 04:18 PM (#5803523)
favors, plumlee, carter, collins, okafor.


Your performance art of wedging Okafor into as many posts as possible is not unnoticed, nor is it unappreciated.
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