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Friday, October 05, 2018

OT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom knew the old thread would get closed, thus detracting from what this site is really about: the baseball playoffs, maybe?

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 05, 2018 at 03:43 PM | 2479 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   601. Just TFTIO Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:01 PM (#5769609)
Flip.
   602. JC in DC Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:06 PM (#5769617)
Looks like Atlanta will be terrible. New York had seven guys in double digits in a blowout win.
   603. tshipman Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:09 PM (#5769620)
I really wish the Lakers could have brought Randle back.


They absolutely could have. They chose not to. I kinda disagree with that, and the Lakers with Randle and no Rondo are a significantly better team in my opinion.
   604. spivey Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5769622)
Milwaukee almost lost, but winning on the road in this league, especially in a game where you know the team is trying, is tough. Kemba and Monk hit some really big shots down the stretch, too. But the results yesterday and today are interesting, but mainly just remind me how tough it is to win on the road against a motivated team.
   605. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5769623)
Never mind. Got up tp take the dog out for a whiz and misread the score when I got back.
   606. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:12 PM (#5769627)
They absolutely could have. They chose not to.
I think, when it came down to it, Randle just didn't feel wanted or respected, and he had a point.
   607. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5769631)
Elfrid Payton with a triple double.
   608. spivey Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:18 PM (#5769634)
If the Spurs make the playoffs, they'll need a Dedmon and a Jonathon Simmons types to give them some athletic verve off the scrap heap. I still believe even if their team is getting older and less athletic, they are good at hitting on those types of deals.

They will have to rebuild at some point soon, and while I think they're very good talent evaluators, I think they do that in spite of being passed up by a lot of other teams' analytics work.
--
If Elfrid Payton can be solid-good (he's putting up a 10/9/10 tonight as of this post), that team looks really interesting.

Gotta shout out to Der K. Back a year ago when Mirotic was getting into fisticuffs and his value was at an alltime low, Der K I believe said something like he'd still give him a 3/45 or 4/60 deal. I feel like most of the thread (me included) thought he was a 9th man type at that point. Man, he's like a way more athletic Ryan Anderson with his ability to stroke it. He took and made some tough 3s tonight too, he doesn't need a ton of room.
   609. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:21 PM (#5769641)
Not real efficient, but a 24-12 line for Kawhi tonight.
   610. spivey Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5769651)
Prime Kawhi and Danny Green was a pretty athletic wing combination for the Spurs. Shame that's gone.
   611. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:29 PM (#5769670)
I still believe even if their team is getting older and less athletic, they are good at hitting on those types of deals.
Maybe. I'll have to see it to believe it. They know how to coach'em up, though. The 3-point shooters are still finding their spots, and the ball movement is still there.
   612. PJ Martinez Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:38 PM (#5769690)
The Davis-for-MVP campaign is off to a good start.
   613. spivey Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:40 PM (#5769694)
This works really well for ESPN. Get those required Suns/Mavs games in early, but people also really want to see Doncic/Ayton.

Am I a bad person for caring more about this than the ALCS? I feel like I should put on the ALCS... but I kind of just don't want to.
   614. jmurph Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:45 PM (#5769710)
Imagine throwing the tantrum Butler threw and then coming out like this. Just one game and all, but man.

And the complementary point: imagine being challenged all month by your teammate and coming out like KAT did.
   615. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:46 PM (#5769711)
Awful first game for KAT. Fouls out with over 3:30 left, 8 points, 9 boards, 3 assists, 3 turnovers, zero impact.
   616. spivey Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:50 PM (#5769717)
I'm pretty out on Towns. I just don't see how he becomes better than crappy on defense, he has no quickness. The offense will be there. But he seems like a mild guy too, and I do wonder if he forces the team to deal Butler. This situation doesn't seem his style.
   617. jmurph Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:52 PM (#5769720)
I'm not even sure I'm writing Wiggins off until they bring in someone to clean up the Butler/Thibs mess. (I mean I'm pretty sure, but still...)
   618. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:54 PM (#5769726)
Luka is doing a Magic Johnson thing. Every pass is on the money.
   619. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:57 PM (#5769731)
Doncic and Ayton are off to nice starts in their NBA debuts.
   620. PJ Martinez Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:57 PM (#5769732)
My favorite Doncic pass so far (i.e., from his first seven minutes).
   621. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: October 17, 2018 at 10:58 PM (#5769735)
<3 Luka.
   622. spivey Posted: October 17, 2018 at 11:05 PM (#5769746)
Really exciting that JVG and Mark Jackson have been broken up. At least tonight.
   623. Harlond Posted: October 17, 2018 at 11:42 PM (#5769793)
Mavs look like they spent preseason practicing on 9 1/2 foot rims. Not close on much of anything.

And Doncic looks way less chiseled than everybody else.
   624. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:07 AM (#5769825)
Is there anyone on earth who's worse at defending the pick-and-roll than Jokic?
   625. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:39 AM (#5769888)
Could the Clippers actually figure out a way to deploy Boban Marjanovic? It would make me so happy.

"MVP" chants from a friendly home crowd!
   626. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:45 AM (#5769900)
omg, he just dunked it without jumping. And broke the basket.
   627. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:55 AM (#5769923)
Ha! Clippers get a technical foul for too many players on the court!!!
   628. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 18, 2018 at 01:07 AM (#5769962)
Hypothetically speaking, if picks were illegal, where would Boban rank in terms of NBA players? Top 20? Top 10?
   629. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 18, 2018 at 01:49 AM (#5770053)
In the opening games so far, 23 of 26 teams have scored in triple digits. As someone who grew up on mid 90s basketball, this is a fun NBA.
   630. JC in DC Posted: October 18, 2018 at 06:54 AM (#5770069)
Break up the Knicks!
   631. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: October 18, 2018 at 08:47 AM (#5770082)
Andre Drummond must have the most ineffective 20 point-20 rebound games in the history of the NBA.

I can't take much more Reggie Jackson.

Even if Blake Griffin really has a second-stage of his career renaissance the Pistons will waste it.

There's your report from the world's last Pistons fan.
   632. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 18, 2018 at 10:20 AM (#5770145)
John Schuhmann @johnschuhmann 4m4 minutes ago

Minutes the Rockets trailed by 20 or more points...
2017-18 season: 13.2
2018-19 season: 12.2
   633. Just TFTIO Posted: October 18, 2018 at 10:41 AM (#5770162)
That NOP/HOU result makes me very, very happy.
   634. jmurph Posted: October 18, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5770163)
Feeling good about my Ayton ROY pick through 1 (one) game. He's just going to pile up points and rebounds if he stays reasonably healthy all year.
   635. jmurph Posted: October 18, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5770169)
Also feeling good about this through one game (the best part of opening night(s) is using all outcomes that support my predictions as evidence that I'm right, and dismissing those that don't support them as meh, it's just one game):
jmurph Posted: October 15, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5766761)
memphis: under 34.5
I think this is low key the worst situation in the NBA.
   636. Just TFTIO Posted: October 18, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5770176)
Also feeling good about this through one game (the best part of opening night(s) is using all outcomes that support my predictions as evidence that I'm right, and dismissing those that don't support them as meh, it's just one game):

My 0-82 prediction for the Wolves is still live!
   637. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 18, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5770183)
Also feeling good about this through one game (the best part of opening night(s) is using all outcomes that support my predictions as evidence that I'm right, and dismissing those that don't support them as meh, it's just one game):

Yeah, that one also makes me feel bad about my JJJ ROY prediction. They're starting Green at PF and Parson at SF. We all know Parson will get hurt again soon enough, but they do sure seem to think they can win this year. Kinda sad to see how much both Conley and Gasol are shells of their former selves.
   638. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 18, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5770192)
Boban’s stats (per 36 minutes of course) since getting traded to the Clippers: 26.4 points, 18.6 rebounds, .573 FG%.

Also last night he dunked without jumping. And broke the basket.

I wish he weren’t the worst player in history at everything else! I love watching him dunk on mere mortals!
   639. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: October 18, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5770234)
Last night was so much fun. Opening night for 22 NBA teams, plus a couple LCS games including a late-night classic. I tried to watch a bit of most of the games. Here are some impressions:

Miami used Josh Richardson as its go-to guy down the stretch last night. It didn't work out great -- he stepped out of bounds on the last possession and very nearly did so on the possession before as well -- but it's really interesting to see. By starting low-usage Rodney McGruder and Derrick Jones Jr. alongside him, the Heat seem to be pushing Richardson to take on more of a primary scorer and secondary ballhandler role.

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander's big hair is gone, but he still stood out last night. He zipped passes all over the court with either hand, nailed a long stepback jumper, got into the paint and to the rim with ease, finished through contact, and picked someone's pocket defensively. It's only one game against a team with questionable D (Nuggets), but he looked comfortable and effective as an NBA point guard. He ended up with 11 points on 5-6 fg, along with 2 rebounds, 4 assists, a steal and a block in 28 minutes off the bench.

Kemba Walker is so good and cares so much, he needs to be on a contender. He took over in the second half against the Bucks, hitting 3s off the dribble and pull-up mid-range jumpers. Kemba ultimately missed a contested layup that could've won the game and completed an amazing comeback. He hung his head on the court for a solid 30 seconds thereafter, with teammates coming over to console him. You could tell how badly he wanted to win the home opener.

The Kings could be a very entertaining team to watch this year. They're really pushing the pace, making the most of a young athletic roster [note: they played at the league's slowest pace last year]. They've gone super-small in the starting lineup, surrounding De'Aaron Fox with Yogi Ferrell, Buddy Hield, Nemanja Bjelica, and Willie Cauley-Stein. WCS and Bjelica looked more spry than I remembered -- maybe they're happier playing like this or maybe the open-court style creates that illusion.

Joe Ingles is the most shockingly coordinated player in the league. You watch him poke the ball away from a point guard dribbling away from him, or see him drain a pull-up 3 in transition, and you question how that just happened. Last night he even dunked over WCS (he had a step on him, but still!). One of the best undrafted players in recent history.
   640. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: October 18, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5770265)
Pat McCaw is still holding out and didn't attend the ring ceremony on Tuesday. This is the weirdest hold out I can remember because he has no leverage. He was awful last season and no one else is offering him a contract. Very strange.
   641. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 18, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5770285)
I'm probably going to catch hell for this, but... Markelle Fultz. Fultz has obvious tools, which have aptly been described as the Dwyane Wade Starter Kit. But I think his skill set is such that, more so than for other types of star toolkits, in order to reach his potential he really has to play aggressive, mean, with a ####-you edge and absolute arrogance. None of that is there, and it worries me as concerning his chances of reaching his potential.

Joe Ingles is the most shockingly coordinated player in the league. You watch him poke the ball away from a point guard dribbling away from him, or see him drain a pull-up 3 in transition, and you question how that just happened. Last night he even dunked over WCS (he had a step on him, but still!). One of the best undrafted players in recent history.


Ingles has been in the league four years now, everyone knows what he can do, and he STILL comes up with surprising steals and blocks, breaks guys' ankles off the dribble, stuff like that a few times every game. I am 100% convinced it's because, his face, he LOOKS so much like a clumsy white doofus that even when you've played basketball against him for years and you know how good he is, your brain just rejects it. You can't help but assume he's a stiff; one look at his face and instinct takes over. And the half-second it takes for your conscious brain to overrule your unconscious instinct is all the time he needs to punk you.

----------------------------------

A bullet list of thoughts I had while watching the Milwaukee-Charlotte game...

* Charlotte's uniforms are hideous. They look like mismatched pajamas. How can you #### up teal so badly?

* Malik Monk can play really good defense when he wants to. He's going to be a very good player if the effort level gets consistently there.

* Milwaukee was a little bit lucky to come away with that one, based mostly on their scorching hot shooting in the first half. But it was one hell of a statement of intent on their part, zinging the ball around and shooting threes. The Milwaukee Bucks, raining threes!

* I know the advanced stats peg John Henson as a useful rotation guy, but man, I've watched him play for a couple years now and I will never understand. To my eyes he looks like he doesn't belong on an NBA court. But somehow he makes it work, with skills apparently too subtle for me to detect.

* Is Thon Maker injured? He didn't play but I don't see him on the injury report. They're better without him.

* Kemba Walker is a badass. And I think he's going to have a monster contract year. He probably should have calmed down a little bit toward the end there and remembered basketball is a team sport, though.

* Let's talk about Giannis. Giannis was so out of sorts in the fourth quarter that I wondered if he'd suffered some kind of injury sometime in the third. I saw no such thing and have heard no such reports, so I guess we just have to conclude he kind of lost his head. The officiating was very lopsided in Charlotte's favor in the second half and that might have gotten to him. Whatever it was... if Giannis wants to be the MVP, he's got to take over games like that. He played his worst when the game was on the line.

* Not that he didn't try, mind. He kept driving, and it was clear that Borrego instructed his team to just hack Giannis immediately whenever he starts to drive, don't let him get anywhere near the rim; make him beat us from the line. (Which he did; he did make two critical free throws at the end, though he missed some before.) I think Giannis and Bud can expect this treatment from most teams going forward.

* And if Giannis wants to be a serious DPOY candidate, which he certainly has the skills for, he has got to ####### stop picking up dumb fouls. It really hurts Milwaukee in the second halves of games to have Antetokounmpo either sitting on the bench or playing passive defense because he's in foul trouble. All those reach-ins, wildly challenging layups and rebounds from behind, produce a few highlight reel plays, but on balance hurt his team by racking up too many unnecessary fouls. IMO this is an even bigger hole in his game than his jumper.

* I was wrong about Donte DiVincenzo. He can play.
   642. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5770294)
I'm having a hard time really disagreeing with anything here, even if they're not really giving the Bulls FO enough credit for getting good twice before (Skiles era, then Thibs era; both of which did include plenty of good and bad luck).

Also, Cam Payne is starting for the Bulls tonight with Dunn out for personal reasons.
   643. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5770305)
Kirk Goldsberry (he of the amazing shooting charts, and most recently of the Spurs) is back at ESPN. Good for ESPN and us, not a great sign IMO for the Spurs.
   644. aberg Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5770316)
Really fun Kirk Goldsberry piece on ESPN today (link) going through the progression of Lebron's shot charts over his career. One interesting note that he made is that Lebron is about as good of a 3pt assister as Curry is a 3pt shooter. I'd love to see more investigation on that.
   645. aberg Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5770317)
Ha, partial coke to AS. I'll split it with you. You can keep the can.
   646. jmurph Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5770320)
I know we've beaten this to death but I think there are now two additional Butler scenarios I hadn't really considered:

1. They don't trade him and he just walks at the end of the season.
2. Less likely, but not radically so: they don't trade him and he signs a new deal at the end of the season to stay in Minnesota.

I think these are options because he probably really hurt his trade value last week, and separately from that, we know that Thibs and Layden don't actually want to trade him and aren't making an effort to do so. There exists a (perhaps strong) possibility that Glen Taylor just makes a deal above their heads and trades him soon, sure. But say this drags into January/February at the trade deadline, and say they're in the top 8 in the standings, or a couple games back. Are they really going to just trade their best or second best player at that point, and kill their playoff odds? That seems hard to believe.
   647. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5770321)
Really? JFC. What a great way to start the year looking at Cam Payne's mug in the starting lineup. Yea Blogabull's coverage has found its shine during the "rebuild". YFBB's column the other day was good as well. They are half assing things in Chicago. "Trust the process" is at this point almost a meaningless cliche but Chicago does not "trust the process" and it results sometimes in lucky outcomes like Wendell Carter but often it leads to stupid #### like signing Jabari.

As for the games last night thanks for all the great impressions from around the league. I watched Knicks Hawks and then Suns Mavs.

Knicks impressions:

Knox was really nervous and rushing. Has an NBA ready frame and a pretty good handle but he's a project. Needs a lot of offensive polish he seems to want to think mid range too often, at least last night. Too many floaters. That said, I still love what he did in SL and I think he'll be fine.

Timmy was always going to have that game against the Hawks wasn't he? Was locked in and that's what he can provide when he's locked in. But he won't be every night and he will shoot the Knicks out of games as well. Ideally he's like your 3rd or best scorer on a championship team.

Mitchell Robinson lasted all of about 5 minutes before hobbling off with an ankle sprain. Needs to do some ankle strengthening work or something seems to have steph curry like problems with them.

The crazy experiment in the back court with Burke, Trier and Baker actually worked for the most part. Fizdale going to a full court press and playing so many guys was...interesting. Worked against the god awful Hawks. Hawks have to be the worst team in the league right? I give credit to Lin for coming back incredibly from that torn patella tendon but he was a turnstyle defensively. As for Young -- not a great debut. Really didn't show much. I feel like he could be out of the league in 5 years or maybe a solid starter. I don't see All-Star in his game right now but anybody including myself that says they know how he'll pan out is lying to themselves: his game is a litmus test for the new NBA and if a guard can replicate the Steph Curry experience without being Steph Curry (aka not at all athletic in the traditional sense).

Len is garbage. God, why is he on their roster? Tanking purposes must be.

_______________________________

Luka I thought looked good. Really big guy. Scouting reports were accurate about how he likes to try and start the break after a defensive rebound. It might take him a few years to really get an NBA body (he's a bit flabby imo) but he uses his size really well to get into the paint without great quickness or explosion. THe big question, which was only amplified last night is: can he shoot? 0-5 from deep. Dallas is gonna be bad, really bad. Smith Jr is looking sorta busty early. Undersized guards always seem to give trouble to forecasters. Some get away with it, some just never seem to get past it. I can see a Trey Burke trajectory from Smith if he doesn't get it together.

Ayton was made for 2018 NBA. Doesn't matter that he doesn't have much offensive polish he's going to get a lot of points on easy slams, put backs and clean ups and dumpoffs. You know how occasionally a pro athlete is on another level athletically from his peers and it's kinda mind blowing (Saquon Barkley for example)? That's Ayton out there. A bigger Amare. Seems to have oven mitts for hands as well, which is a huge difference maker imo. Great hands on a guy that athletic is a massive bonus. Just throw it up to him, down to him, around him and he'll go get it and put in the basket more often than not.

Other than Ayton Phoenix looks fun. Jackson played well, so did Booker. I guess if you're going to sign Ariza you might as well let him chuck threes like he did. I feel like I'll be 50, it will be 2035, and Ariza will still be fantasy viable because he's hitting 3 threes a night from a wheelchair.



####, I just remembered that Moses said Dunn is out tonight. Oh well, at least Fred announced that Jabari is on the bench and so is Rolo.
   648. aberg Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5770323)
About the Wolves...

-I think KAT touched the ball once in a potential attacking position in the first six minutes. I texted some friends that Thibs feels comfortable completely freezing him out now that he signed his extension. He fouled out with 3 late offensive fouls, all obviously because he felt like he needed to do something to take over the game.

-Butler made a big 3 to tie it late, but he was very inefficient for the whole game and looked out of sorts. It was like the offense was being run by an out-of-shape guy who hadn't practiced with the rest of the team. Hmm.

-Wiggins was fine. He made a couple of threes and also bricked lots of midrange shots. He got a few more rebounds when he was nominally the PF in a very small lineup (Teague-Rose-Butler-Wiggins-Gibson). Wiggins gets way too much credit from the announcers for the occasional hustle play.

-Brynn Forbes has got to be one of the weakest perimeter defenders in the league. Teague figured out that he can just dribble to the rim and make a layup as if Forbes wasn't there and got the Wolves back in the game because of it.

-Dieng looked alive, which was nice. Tolliver didn't attempt a 3, which was disheartening. Rose was active, which has never really been the problem. Aldridge continued to bully anyone who guarded him, Derozan was very wily, and Gasol made some beautiful passes.
   649. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5770341)
I didn't watch the game, but if Derrick Rose continues to take twice as many shots as KAT, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the Wolfs aren't going to win a lot of games.
   650. jmurph Posted: October 18, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5770344)
So the G League is going to start offering $125K contracts to "elite one and done prospects" according to twitter. I'm not seeing actual news article links yet, but everyone is discussing it. This from Woj is interesting (with a killer line at the end):
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
I have doubts about how many top players will go this route. Some, yes. But G-League is full of early connecting flights, long bus rides, small gyms. It isn't glamorous. Big-time NCAA ball still has the trappings of exposure, packed houses, private jets. You'll get paid there too

I think this is a great first step.
   651. jmurph Posted: October 18, 2018 at 01:03 PM (#5770348)
Here's an overview.

They still need to figure out the details, including how the players will actually be assigned to G League teams (these are still not draft eligible players, so they won't be drafted and won't be under contract to an NBA team). I so rarely have good ideas but for years I've thought they just need to expand the draft by a round or two and make high school grads eligible again. I think they're otherwise overthinking things.
   652. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 18, 2018 at 01:05 PM (#5770350)
Heh, yeah. $125,000 is probably less money than an elite player at an elite school makes in college.

Definitely looks like a step on the NBA's part in the direction of running its own minor league instead of using the NCAA as a de facto minor league.
   653. JJ1986 Posted: October 18, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5770353)
If they can sign shoe contracts, the very top guys might be able to make much more money that way while playing in the G-League.
   654. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: October 18, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5770354)
I think this is a great first step.


I think it's about the professional environment angle as much as anything else. NO SCHOOL. Not even the pretension of it. Or, if they do want some school they can get it in a much more streamlined environment and more tailored to their needs as a very talented young pro athlete.

   655. aberg Posted: October 18, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5770411)
1. They don't trade him and he just walks at the end of the season.
2. Less likely, but not radically so: they don't trade him and he signs a new deal at the end of the season to stay in Minnesota.


I think there is a fair chance at #1, and I'm ultimately ok with it. If the reported Miami offer (Richardson, Waiters, a protected future first) is the best that's out there, then one year of Butler might actually be preferable.

The only chance that #2 is remotely possible, I think, is if they unload Wiggins's salary. I don't think Taylor has the cojones to do that, even if it's the right move.
   656. GregD Posted: October 18, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5770417)
I think it's about the professional environment angle as much as anything else. NO SCHOOL. Not even the pretension of it. Or, if they do want some school they can get it in a much more streamlined environment and more tailored to their needs as a very talented young pro athlete.
And not much oversight. That would appeal to lots of 18 year olds. Many colleges spend lots of time and money keeping watch over their basketball players. Unquestionably some break free and cause trouble. But presumably in the G League they could do whatever they want with no curfew or bed checks.
   657. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 18, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5770490)
I love how the NBA thread has roared to life with the league's opening nights.

Butler made a big 3 to tie it late, but he was very inefficient for the whole game and looked out of sorts. It was like the offense was being run by an out-of-shape guy who hadn't practiced with the rest of the team. Hmm.
Early on, he looked like he was very much looking to take every shot, and Wiggins responded by trying to take every shot. It was ugly to watch in real time. Butler toned it down after the first half; maybe he got tired, maybe it just isn't his game to be so over-the-top selfish, or whatever, but it was not great to watch.
Brynn Forbes has got to be one of the weakest perimeter defenders in the league. Teague figured out that he can just dribble to the rim and make a layup as if Forbes wasn't there and got the Wolves back in the game because of it.
The only reason the Wolves were in the game at all was Teague going iso against Forbes again and again. THAT's not going to be there for Minnesota every game. Unfortunately for San Antonio, that WILL be there against them every game.
Luka I thought looked good. Really big guy. Scouting reports were accurate about how he likes to try and start the break after a defensive rebound. It might take him a few years to really get an NBA body (he's a bit flabby imo) but he uses his size really well to get into the paint without great quickness or explosion. THe big question, which was only amplified last night is: can he shoot? 0-5 from deep
It's one night, so I don't wanna read too much into it. He didn't look like he had is legs under him after that first quarter, and that may help explain his ugly bricks. His defense is terrible, but that just means he fits in with the rest of the Mavs (DJordan was AWFUL last night). His passing is really on point, and he's got pro handles. He needs to work on getting a NBA man's body, but he's got skills for real. Dallas has to get Dennis Smith to play SOME defense, or else they'll just have none at all on the perimeter, or hide Luka in the paint (which is a problem since they're already going to have to hide Jordan in the paint).

The Suns looked good offensively. The Mavs helped, but Phoenix had 35 assists last night, a total they've only matched one other time since the Steve Nash years. Pretty good first game for Igor Kokoskov.
   658. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: October 18, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5770499)
I was pleasantly surprised by the maturity of Ayton's face up game.
   659. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: October 18, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5770501)
Finally finished that Blogabull article: I agree 100% that Fred Hoiberg (gulp) is currently the smartest basketball mind in Chicago. GarPax keeps giving him chickenshit. He's trying to make chicken salad. Good luck.
   660. maccoach57 Posted: October 18, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5770533)
Randle/Rondo: I have talked about this a few times. Supposedly Randle did not want to be back, but if that is true, I expect it is in part because Magic did not make him feel wanted. The only Jim Buss guy Magic likes is Ingram--the rest of the Bussdraftees--Randle, Russell, Clarkson, and Nance Jr.--are gone, and Magic talks too much sometimes.

And I think letting Randle go and getting Rondo was probably a mistake, but Magic's arc will be determined by when, how, and whether he gets James' wingman and who the guy actually is if they get him.

New Orleans: They had an abysmal preseason, and as noted, I don't like them 5-12. But Randle/Mirotic/Holiday around Davis is a pretty interesting core as I said the other day.

Butler: Didn't see the game. I like Butler and Minnesota is overdue, so I think it is unfortunate this is going on. OTOH, I am not a fan of Taylor or Thibodeau so I have 0 sympathy for those guys.



   661. aberg Posted: October 18, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5770536)
And I think letting Randle go and getting Rondo was probably a mistake, but Magic's arc will be determined by when, how, and whether he gets James' wingman and who the guy actually is of they get him.


As you allude to, Randle is probably better than Rondo for 2019, but I suspect neither of them are in the plans for 2020 and beyond. I think everyone agrees that punting any season of Lebron is curious, but if it ends up getting them another star without sacrificing Ball or Ingram (or two stars with one/both of them gone), all of these debates become moot.

   662. aberg Posted: October 18, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5770538)
Finally finished that Blogabull article: I agree 100% that Fred Hoiberg (gulp) is currently the smartest basketball mind in Chicago. GarPax keeps giving him chickenshit. He's trying to make chicken salad. Good luck.


How about Butler and Patton for Lavine, Dunn, and Markkanen?
   663. maccoach57 Posted: October 18, 2018 at 04:56 PM (#5770545)
I think everyone agrees that punting any season of Lebron is curious


I am going to be my usual twitchy self here: I think James punted this season himself, as I have said. It was a very minor story, but just last week, Jeanie Buss gave an interview saying that she was "hurt" that Paul George wouldn't even give the Lakers a sitdown and I believe the reports about what Popovich and Buford were asking for in exchange for Leonard.

I expect that the Magic/Pelinka FO will have a pretty rocky ride, but James is in LA on this team because he wants to be, and I don't really think that they had a realistic shot at getting a second guy this fast. I suppose you can argue that they should have simply given SA whatever they wanted for Leonard and I would not entirely disagree, but I am not behind the head-scratching about James joining a lottery team being aimed at the Lakers' FO. It was James who did that, and a lot of people sort of shrugged and said, "Yeah, yeah Lakers." But obviously Decision III was about more than Basketball Reasons.
   664. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: October 18, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5770571)
How about Butler and Patton for Lavine, Dunn, and Markkanen?


Thibs for Garpax straight up! How about this weather in PNW!
   665. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 18, 2018 at 06:12 PM (#5770579)
I will say on the record that I think there is at least a 30% chance Anthony Davis gets traded to the Lakers next offseason. Too soon to speculate on the return, but Ingram and Ball may well both be part of it.
   666. aberg Posted: October 18, 2018 at 06:43 PM (#5770585)
Thibs for Garpax straight up! How about this weather in PNW!


Shhh. People can't find out about it. The roads are already too crowded.

I will say on the record that I think there is at least a 30% chance Anthony Davis gets traded to the Lakers next offseason. Too soon to speculate on the return, but Ingram and Ball may well both be part of it.


Davis probably has some say about it, but which of these would you rather receive as NO if you were trying to kickstart a post-brow rebuild:

Sacramento's 2019 first, Memphis's 2019 first (top 8 protected, then top 6, then unprotected), and some combination of Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier
or
Some combination of Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, and a late first rounder or two?

Also- you can bet on where Davis opens the 19-20 season, and I believe LAL is a huge favorite, like better than even money.
   667. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 18, 2018 at 07:00 PM (#5770590)
Washington Wizards center Dwight Howard will not play in tonight’s season-opener against the Miami Heat, league sources tell Yahoo Sports. He still needs more practice time.


...
   668. SteveF Posted: October 18, 2018 at 08:21 PM (#5770606)
Philly fans just booed/groaned at Fultz for passing up a wide open three.
   669. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: October 18, 2018 at 08:44 PM (#5770613)
some combination of Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier
Terry Rozier will be a RFA and ineligible to be traded like that. Also SHHHHHHH you're going to jinx it.
   670. aberg Posted: October 18, 2018 at 09:04 PM (#5770619)
Washington Wizards center Dwight Howard will not play in tonight’s season-opener against the Miami Heat, league sources tell Yahoo Sports. He still needs more practice time.


SVG reading this thinking, "that's all I had to do?"
   671. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: October 18, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5770637)
Am I crazy? I don't read the Sixers crowd reaction to Fultz at all like anyone on the TNT broadcast does. To me, the crowd is clearly behind him/imploring him to shoot because they want him to succeed. These guys seem to think the crowd is against him and dreading him shooting.
   672. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: October 18, 2018 at 09:28 PM (#5770638)
Also, I think the Sixers should trade Fultz for Courtney Lee.
   673. Booey Posted: October 18, 2018 at 09:31 PM (#5770640)
Jeanie Buss gave an interview saying that she was "hurt" that Paul George wouldn't even give the Lakers a sitdown


In his recent interview with The Undefeated, George says that he was disappointed the Lakers didn't value him highly enough to pony up the assets to get him directly from the Pacers as soon as they put him on the trading block. He reiterates that he really was set on LAL before he got traded.
   674. SteveF Posted: October 18, 2018 at 09:32 PM (#5770642)
Am I crazy?

You are not crazy. They were clearly groaning at him for passing up wide open jump shots. (The people calling the game got it right at the time. It's only Barkley that got it wrong.)
   675. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 18, 2018 at 09:37 PM (#5770643)
In his recent interview with The Undefeated, George says that he was disappointed the Lakers didn't value him highly enough to pony up the assets to get him directly from the Pacers as soon as they put him on the trading block. He reiterates that he really was set on LAL before he got traded.


This line of reasoning is always so dumb to me. Wouldn't you rather join a team as a free agent so that you're joining a better team (that didn't have to sacrifice those assets)? I guess you lose out on some money in the process but I always thought this was a strange thing to be insulted by. It's the same reason I always was excited to get picked last for sports teams (I was short growing up and tended to play w/ older kids), it meant the rest of the team was better.
   676. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 18, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5770666)
I always thought this was a strange thing to be insulted by.
Pro athletes are insulted by the dumbest ####. "Oh, you didn't want to destroy your franchise to get me? I'm so very hurt, I don't even want to hear your max offer to me. I'll just stay with the team that will pay me tens of millions more. Also, it's not about the money."
   677. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 18, 2018 at 10:18 PM (#5770688)
Isn't Paul George also the guy who

(a) is something like 1-for-25 in his career taking the decisive shot at the end of a game, and also
(b) gets pissed off when the decisive shot isn't called for him?

I seem to remember that being a thing in Indiana. Please correct me if I'm misremembering.
   678. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 18, 2018 at 10:19 PM (#5770695)
Last time we saw Paul George in a game that mattered, he was shooting 2-16. I remember saying something to the effect of "I NEVER WANT TO SEE HIM IN A LAKER UNIFORM!" or something. I've no hard feelings at all about him passing on the Lakers.
   679. spivey Posted: October 18, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5770703)
In my experience most of the people that ##### about players being all about the money would be all about the money in their own life. Also, respect/value is shown by money, etc. in the NBA.

And finally, Paul George sucked in OKC's last game. But his playoff resume is very good.
   680. PJ Martinez Posted: October 18, 2018 at 10:46 PM (#5770736)
Watching Fultz lead the bench at the end there, and show flashes of confidence, made it seem even weirder that Philly insists on having him in the starting lineup (though I will readily concede that the Sixers coaches and front office presumably know things about his makeup and what might get him going that I don't).
   681. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 18, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5770771)
So far, I'm enjoying LeBrons Laker tenure.
   682. SteveF Posted: October 18, 2018 at 11:15 PM (#5770777)
This looks familiar. Lebron goes to the bench; team falls apart.
   683. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 18, 2018 at 11:56 PM (#5770865)
Super dumb question:

Just saw Rajon Rondo is a Laker now. I know enough to know that he’s basically just the veteran version of Lonzo Ball (pass-first point guard with no jumper).

So uh....what does that mean for Ball? Is he just relegated to backup this year? Or is Rondo just the “veteran presence” who will teach Ball the ropes (a la the Chase Utley role on the Dodgers)?
   684. tshipman Posted: October 19, 2018 at 12:27 AM (#5770876)
Lakers are 0-15 on the road from 3 against a playoff team and are within a point.

This LeBron guy is pretty good.
   685. tshipman Posted: October 19, 2018 at 01:07 AM (#5770883)
Lakers going to an interesting small lineup with LeBron/Kuzma/Hart/KCP/Rondo down 11 with 3 to go.
   686. SteveF Posted: October 19, 2018 at 01:17 AM (#5770885)
19 minutes for Ball at -15.
   687. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 19, 2018 at 01:23 AM (#5770886)
@darrenrovell
JUST IN: @Warriors “Kiss Cam” this season will be sponsored by last minute hotel booking service @HotelTonight. The fans with the best kiss for each home game, that get the largest crowd applause, will get a free hotel room to stay in courtesy of the sponsor.
   688. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 19, 2018 at 02:24 AM (#5770887)
I go play a few softball games and the Lakers fall on their face? Clearly, the court vision that matters for Los Angeles is mine.
   689. spivey Posted: October 19, 2018 at 09:00 AM (#5770909)
Ball only had 19 minutes. That's spicy. Just one game, but I wonder if it's a precursor for how the rotation will be managed - erring on the side of winning vs. minutes for the young guys?
   690. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: October 19, 2018 at 09:41 AM (#5770933)
Ball only had 19 minutes. That's spicy. Just one game, but I wonder if it's a precursor for how the rotation will be managed - erring on the side of winning vs. minutes for the young guys?

He's working back from injury so I wouldn't read too much into it yet.
   691. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: October 19, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5770940)
Don't know about the rest of the East Coast crew, but I'm a wreck after forcing myself to make it to halftime of two national TV late games in one week. Looks like this will be the first year since LeBron went to MIA that I will watch less than ~80 of his games.
   692. Harlond Posted: October 19, 2018 at 10:10 AM (#5770958)
Ball only had 19 minutes. That's spicy. Just one game, but I wonder if it's a precursor for how the rotation will be managed - erring on the side of winning vs. minutes for the young guys?
Hart, Kuzma, and Ingram (is he still a young guy?) all got 27+ minutes, while Beasley and Stephenson had 2 and 16 minutes respectively.

The game Sauce Castillo had should not go unremarked. 24 points on 7/11 shooting in 27 minutes with a plus/minus of 18. That's useful.

   693. jmurph Posted: October 19, 2018 at 10:13 AM (#5770962)
Ingram (is he still a young guy)

You're probably kidding but in case not, he's more than a year younger than Simmons, so I'd say definitely yes!

   694. spivey Posted: October 19, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5770968)
It annoys me the Spurs didn't get Josh Hart. He felt like such a Spurs guy coming out.
   695. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: October 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5770975)
Anyone know if there's a way to download games on the League Pass app? Google tells me there is but I tried clicking around on my app and haven't been able to figure it out. Took me way too long to figure out how to turn off score display as well.
   696. JC in DC Posted: October 19, 2018 at 10:22 AM (#5770980)
Lots of folks saw Hart as a near certain short-term contributor at least. I (and I think, NJ) wanted NY to pop him in the second. Smart, athletic, skilled, hard-working, good size: what's not to love?
   697. Harlond Posted: October 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM (#5770983)
I didn't watch the Miami/Washington game, but I see from the boxscore that Ian Mahinmi, the guy replacing Dwight Howard in the starting lineup, got zero defensive rebounds in the 11:38 minutes he played. Meanwhile, 22 of Miami's total 55 rebounds were offensive rebounds. That's a lot of offensive rebounds, especially compared to Washington's 7. Mahinmi hit 1 of his 2 three-point shots, but that doesn't seem like a viable trade-off. From this one game, it appears the Wizards might really need Howard back.

   698. Booey Posted: October 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM (#5770986)
Ball only had 19 minutes. That's spicy. Just one game, but I wonder if it's a precursor for how the rotation will be managed - erring on the side of winning vs. minutes for the young guys?

It's just evidence that he's going to be the centerpiece in the inevitable trade that brings Anthony Davis or Damian Lillard or some other superstar to LA to become LeBron's #2.
   699. spivey Posted: October 19, 2018 at 10:32 AM (#5770998)
Has there been actual real rumors coming from AD's camp that he's not happy in New Orleans? They were pretty good last year, should be better this year, and he's the face of the team and getting paid a ton. Seems like he's finally in a good situation there.
   700. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: October 19, 2018 at 10:37 AM (#5771009)
Has there been actual real rumors coming from AD's camp that he's not happy in New Orleans? They were pretty good last year, should be better this year, and he's the face of the team and getting paid a ton. Seems like he's finally in a good situation there.

New Orleans can also give him the Super Max. I don't think AD has packed his bags just yet.
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