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Friday, October 05, 2018

OT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom knew the old thread would get closed, thus detracting from what this site is really about: the baseball playoffs, maybe?

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 05, 2018 at 03:43 PM | 6856 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   6601. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: February 09, 2019 at 01:38 AM (#5813892)
Anthony Bennett is shooting 70 percent from two, 45 percent from three, 83 percent from the line this year in the G League. Is there a chance he makes it back?
   6602. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 09, 2019 at 01:50 AM (#5813893)
Isn't that basically what came about?

The Sixers took on about 6 million of bad money, a fake first rounder, and got a second back.
can you explain how OKC's top-20 protected 2020 1st round pick is a "fake first rounder"?

and even if that pick doesn't convey as a 1st rounder, it converts to 2 2nd round picks. so even then, fultz wasn't traded for "a" 2nd round pick; he was traded for three 2nd round picks.

also, only 1MM of simmons's salary next season is guaranteed, so that bad money is mostly negligible, especially if the sixers plan to go ahead and max out harris and butler.



so...no, it's not at all what came about.
   6603. Hot Wheeling American Posted: February 09, 2019 at 10:00 AM (#5813912)
i'm not looking for sympathy here.

I laughed.
   6604. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 09, 2019 at 11:26 AM (#5813936)
There’s no way around it: The Lakers failed on Thursday. Massively, spectacularly, and very publicly.
...
the Lakers head into the home stretch with, essentially, the same roster that has produced a bottom-third offense and a barely-.500 record
...
this isn’t last season’s Eastern Conference. The Lakers will have to grind just to leapfrog the Clippers and Kings to get into the postseason; according to multiple projection systems, they’re not even a coin-flip bet to crack the top eight right now.


it was hard not to notice that, as he wheeled and dealed, every move Morey made pared down the Rockets’ total financial obligations by a little bit, and by a little bit more, until eventually, Houston had ducked down below the luxury-tax line.
...
“Do you understand what the luxury tax can do to you if you’re in it three years in a row?” Fertitta said in a preseason interview with SB Nation’s Steven Godfrey. “It has another multiplier of three and a half. For every million dollars you’re over, it costs you nine in tax. It’s unbelievable.

those bookkeeping transactions did allow Memphis to sign ex-Raptors curio Bruno Caboclo for the rest of the season; he’ll never be the Brazilian Kevin Durant, but he’s still just 23 years old with go-go-Gadget limbs, and he put up 16 points, five rebounds, and three 3-pointers in Thursday’s blowout loss
...
I’m here for some weird-ass lineups. Give me a Valanciunas-Jackson–Kyle “Slow-Mo” Anderson–Wright-Conley group. Get small and nasty with Conley-Wright–Jevon Carter three-guard groups. Play skyscraper ball with Anderson running point and Caboclo at the 2. Let’s unshackle all these misfit toys, J.B. Bickerstaff.

What if a chemistry experiment gone awry prompts Doncic to look at how Porzingis forced his way out of New York and say, “Hey, I can do that, too”? I wouldn’t bet on the situation in Dallas deteriorating as rapidly and completely as it did with Porzingis in New York. If it does, though, the Mavs could find themselves with a whole bunch of cap space that players don’t want to take, without draft picks to use to add talent around Doncic, and with few appetizing paths to building the kind of sustainable winner they’ve been missing since the 2011 championship.

link
   6605. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 09, 2019 at 11:29 AM (#5813938)
I laughed.

let me just add some clarity to this:

i'm working through the anger phase of the grief cycle. you know: anger, denial, anger, anger, bargaining, anger, depression, anger, anger, anger, rage, anger, rage, rage, acceptance, anger.


   6606. tshipman Posted: February 09, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5813944)
can you explain how OKC's top-20 protected 2020 1st round pick is a "fake first rounder"?


1. It's a year away. Picks further out than this year are worth less.
2. It's 50/50 on whether it conveys as a first.
3. I think it turns into second rounders in subsequent years, so a 2020 and 2021 second, which again, has a discount compared to closer picks.

It's hard to gauge the value precisely of a protected pick. I think Nate/Danny say that a late first is worth about 20 million in dead money, so if you discount for a year away and discount for the likelihood that it's worth two seconds, I think the accurate value is about 10-15 million. Since Simmons is 6 million of dead money next year and about 3 million of dead money this year, there's not a lot of surplus value there.

Edit: Oh, now I see your point about Simmons' contract not being guaranteed. Yeah, that makes it a bit better--more like Fultz got traded for the equivalent of two seconds, albeit ones far in the future.
   6607. SteveF Posted: February 09, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5813945)
You're an injury to Embiid away from a psych hold.
   6608. Booey Posted: February 09, 2019 at 02:19 PM (#5813965)
Stigs - Embiid, Simmons, Butler, Harris, and Redick might be the best non GSW starting lineup in the league. Philly has the cap space to re-sign both Butler and Harris to big deals if they choose to (right?). The Sixers are still in a great spot.
   6609. tshipman Posted: February 09, 2019 at 03:18 PM (#5813971)
the best non GSW starting lineup in the league


Amusingly, by plus/minus, the best non-GSW starting lineup in the league was:

S. Adams | T. Ferguson | P. George | J. Grant | D. Schroder

I didn't check everyone, but I did check all the usual suspects. 90% sure.
   6610. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 09, 2019 at 04:26 PM (#5813982)
Best net rating for 5-man lineups, minimum 100 minutes

This has OKC #2, and there is no way I would have guessed #1.
   6611. tshipman Posted: February 09, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5813985)
I did come across #1, but didn't include it because they never started for their team.

(I do think there is something to the whole "playing against backups" thing, so I do tend to discount lineups that don't start or close games like that lineup or Toronto's Lowry + Bench from last year)
   6612. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 09, 2019 at 06:20 PM (#5813995)
Fun fact from Doris Burke on Nikola Jokic: "Do you know this guy has more triple-doubles than dunks?"
   6613. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 09, 2019 at 08:21 PM (#5814005)
1. It's a year away. Picks further out than this year are worth less.
2. It's 50/50 on whether it conveys as a first.
3. I think it turns into second rounders in subsequent years, so a 2020 and 2021 second, which again, has a discount compared to closer picks.

i agree that the odds are around 50/50 that that pick conveys, but a coinflip chance at a first round is not a fake first round pick. a fake pick is when a sub-.400 DAL team traded a top 20 protected #1 pick for nerlens noel, or when the sixers traded their own top 55 protected 2nd round pick for eric maynor and byron mullens. those picks had no chance to convey; this OKC pick, otoh, has a very legitimate chance.

You're an injury to Embiid away from a psych hold.
i know:
6524. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:32 AM (#5813566)
if embiid gets injured, this team is absolutely beyond ######. sure, most competitive teams would be ###### by losing one of their three best players, but let me list the sixers current depth chart at center, so you can get an idea of the total ####### in the offing:

embiid - he's fine.
boban - 10 MPG, because he can't move.
amir - 10 MPG, because he can't move.
patton - 4 career MP, because he's glass.

Stigs - Embiid, Simmons, Butler, Harris, and Redick might be the best non GSW starting lineup in the league. Philly has the cap space to re-sign both Butler and Harris to big deals if they choose to (right?). The Sixers are still in a great spot
even if the sixers lose butler, there are ways that they can resign harris and still have near max cap space to add a 4th star (unlikely, but maybe a dangelo russell offer sheet?), or to pad out the rest of the rotation with veterans (beverley, nwaba, bogdanavic, thad), or take some chances on younger role players (brogdon, lamb, bullock, vonleh), or go all in on floor spacing (redick, satoransky, jerebko, mirotic).


   6614. PJ Martinez Posted: February 09, 2019 at 08:53 PM (#5814007)
This is my favorite Zion GIF so far.
   6615. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: February 09, 2019 at 09:05 PM (#5814008)
Jazz finish the easiest stretch in human history 12-3.

5-0 on gimme games (home vs CLE ATL ORL PHX CHI)
4-1 on favored games (home vs DET MIN SA POR and LAL without LeBron)
3-2 on tossups (at LAC at POR at MIN vs DEN vs HOU)

I'd call that holding serve or maybe a bit better. From 20-21 and out of the playoffs to 32-24 and the 6 seed. This was just evening out, so the schedule goes back to normal strength over rest of the year, not hellacious (though the last game pre ASB is the hardest possible game: at GS).
   6616. Oriole Tragic didn't have the teams Lebron had Posted: February 09, 2019 at 09:09 PM (#5814010)
This is my favorite Zion GIF so far.
OMFG. Thanks for posting that. It's so unbelievable that it almost looks fake. Almost. Wow.
   6617. Booey Posted: February 09, 2019 at 09:59 PM (#5814014)
This was just evening out, so the schedule goes back to normal strength over rest of the year, not hellacious (though the last game pre ASB is the hardest possible game: at GS).


Yeah. That early schedule was just brutal. Made them look worse than they really were early on. The schedule does flatline a bit from here on out, but they hadn't played the Suns yet until a couple days ago so they still have 3 more against Phoenix, plus their only remaining road trip of more than 2 games is just about the easiest 4 game roadie you can imagine - an Eastern swing through WAS, NYK, ATL, and CHI. There...um...should be some wins in there. ;-)

This rodeo road trip is gonna be a killer for the Spurs, isn't it? Only halfway through and already 0-4 with losses of 15, 39, 9, and 20 (last 4 include games against the Grizz and Knicks, though). I still think they'll make the playoffs, but it's going to be closer than it looked a few weeks ago.
   6618. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 09, 2019 at 10:34 PM (#5814019)
I've seen that Zion clip shared like 10X now and each time I see it I stop and watch it again. I can't wait to see him in the NBA with even more spacing.

For Jazz, it is nice to see that the early season issues were due in large part to the schedule. I'm still kind of disappointed they couldn't make a trade to get into the hey-if-the-Warrior-are-super-injured-we-have-a-chance tier, but I also love Favors and Rubio.

Instead, playing the game early allowed a European audience to tune in at a much more reasonable time, especially important in a game that featured Rubio, Rudy Gobert, Thabo Sefolosha, Jakob Poeltl, Davis Bertans, Marco Belinelli, and Pau Gasol. That only can help interest in the NBA from overseas, thus making everyone more money.

But Rubio really appreciated this early start for perhaps the most heartbreaking reason possible.

“It’s great, because when I finish the game, everybody’s on their phones getting messages from their friends and family. I only have one from my dad,” Rubio said. “Sometimes he falls asleep, but I don’t blame him.”

Rubio confirmed that he received many more messages after this game.

I mean, who besides a monster like Thibs doesn't love Rubio?
   6619. Oriole Tragic didn't have the teams Lebron had Posted: February 09, 2019 at 10:51 PM (#5814021)
I mean, who besides a monster like Thibs doesn't love Rubio?
You are the Ollie to Booey's Stan. :D
   6620. nick swisher hygiene Posted: February 09, 2019 at 11:31 PM (#5814024)
6616–After watching it ten times, I see the trick: at the moment when our view of him is obscured by the Duke #2, the large man switches on a small jetpack concealed in the back of his shorts....
   6621. Booey Posted: February 09, 2019 at 11:49 PM (#5814029)
This Zion guy might end up being pretty good...
   6622. Tin Angel Posted: February 10, 2019 at 12:04 AM (#5814031)
I was in a bar the other day when Duke was playing Boston College. One guy was insisting Zion is too small to play PF and was going to be a bust. Shortly after that he missed an absurd reverse dunk (during a blowout) and another guy chimed in "Yeah, no way I would draft that guy! That's not going to work in the NBA!" I chose to remain silent.
   6623. Howie Menckel Posted: February 10, 2019 at 12:32 AM (#5814033)
late last year I mentioned the likely schedule-induced rollercoaster coming for the Spurs.

and indeed they recently won 5 in a row (last 4 of those at home) to get to 32-22. second 5-game winning streak since post-Christmas.

since then they have lost at Kings, at Warriors, at Blazers, at Jazz in a span of 6 nights.

now Tuesday at Grizzlies. hmm. then 9 days off for ASB. then at Raptors, at Knicks (lol), and at Nets in 3rd road game in 4 nights. longest 8-game "road trip" in NBA history? February home schedule is Feb. 2 and Feb. 27.

next 5 after that include Pistons and Hawks - and home vs Thunder, Nuggets, Bucks.

every team's schedule has its ups and downs, but the Spurs' version seems a bit more intense to me.
   6624. spivey Posted: February 10, 2019 at 12:57 AM (#5814034)
Bucks were absolutely awful without Giannis tonight. Shooting was awful and intensity was mostly crap. Sometimes you need games like that though. Still having a great season of course.
   6625. Howie Menckel Posted: February 10, 2019 at 01:23 AM (#5814035)

Greg Logan
‏Verified account @GregLogan1
11m11 minutes ago

Here's how tough #Nets schedule is: Of final 25 games, 17 are vs teams in playoff position plus 2 vs non-playoff teams with winning record on road (LAL & SAC). Last 13 vs playoff-position or winning teams. No guarantee of making playoffs. Need to beat 6 losing teams, 2 on road.
   6626. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 10, 2019 at 01:43 AM (#5814036)
The Clippers sans Harris were not supposed to win road games where they fall behind by 23 points after the first quarter. (Nobody's supposed to win those games.)
   6627. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 10, 2019 at 08:17 AM (#5814045)
Bucks were absolutely awful without Giannis tonight. Shooting was awful and intensity was mostly crap. Sometimes you need games like that though. Still having a great season of course.


There's no use in trying to draw anything meaningful out of any team on the back end of a back-to-back.

I've mentioned this before but when I cruise League Pass deciding which game I'm going to watch today, I always check the previous night as well, and avoid any game in which either team played the previous night.

The league really needs to drop to a 70 game schedule. All these games in which one team (or worse, both) is on the back end of a back-to-back add no viewing value at all, IMO.

My personal top five players I love to watch right now:

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Luka Doncic
4. Ben Simmons
5. Damian Lillard

Don't look now, but after losing four straight after Oladipo went down, Indiana has now won five in a row, convincingly. Only two of the five games were gimmes (the Lakers on Deadline Day, and Cleveland last night). That said, it sure looks like the Eastern Conference is going to have a very boring first round before a tremendous second round.
   6628. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:27 AM (#5814050)
Donovan Mitchell was born in New York, went to high school in New Hampshire and college at Louisville. Why the hell is he a Penguins fan?
   6629. PJ Martinez Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:28 AM (#5814052)
The Clippers sans Harris were not supposed to win road games where they fall behind by 23 points after the first quarter. (Nobody's supposed to win those games.)
28! And they won by 11. Kyrie went down with a knee sprain in the second quarter, but still.

What a weird season so far for the Celtics. After the game, Marcus Morris made some comments about the lack of chemistry, how it's been a team of individuals and guys aren't rooting enough for each other or having fun. Granted that people often look to chemistry issues after the fact, seeing good chemistry when a team has won and bad chemistry when they've lost, but that has genuinely seemed to be an issue all season, and it shows up in games like last night, when the Celtics just don't seem to muster the effort to hold off a team that isn't giving in, and it shows up in their record in back-to-backs, which, after being surprisingly good in previous seasons, has been dreadful this year.

The chemistry issues also provided some of the context or subtext for Kyrie's weird series of monologues about leadership -- the younger guys, whether it's their fault or his, don't really seem to connect with him. The team is talented enough to have an SRS equal to that of the Raptors anyway, but I do think this is among the reasons they've underachieved relative to expectations. (Obviously the biggest reason is Hayward's struggles; he had a good game last night, by the way.) Stevens seemed to blame himself a little for last night's loss, and it is partly on him to get people on the same page.

At this point, I could see the Celtics making the Finals or losing in the first round -- both results would be surprising, but neither would be a shock.
   6630. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:29 AM (#5814053)
We've focused a lot on how unsettled the Lakers are with the AD stuff, but not much attention has been paid to the Celtics who are in the exact same situation. It can't be ease for Brown or Tatum right now.
   6631. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:42 AM (#5814056)
In almost every Utah game I've seen, the refs--and I assume it's not the same crew every time--are constantly making every close call against Rudy Gobert that they can, and constantly looking for the slightest excuse to T him up. I don't know how exactly he got to be Public Enemy Number One to the officials, but it's a problem for Utah. A feud with a refs is a feud you just can't win.

We've focused a lot on how unsettled the Lakers are with the AD stuff, but not much attention has been paid to the Celtics who are in the exact same situation. It can't be ease for Brown or Tatum right now.


That's probably true, but I suspect Kyrie is a bigger issue right now.
   6632. PJ Martinez Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:48 AM (#5814058)
Also, the Celtics are strangely terrible when Aron Baynes is out -- I can't find the win-loss numbers, but they're striking (though presumably if you dug into them you'd find other factors at play as well).
   6633. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 10, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5814068)
In almost every Utah game I've seen, the refs--and I assume it's not the same crew every time--are constantly making every close call against Rudy Gobert that they can, and constantly looking for the slightest excuse to T him up. I don't know how exactly he got to be Public Enemy Number One to the officials, but it's a problem for Utah. A feud with a refs is a feud you just can't win.
the only way out is through.

gobert needs to rip the refs so ####### hard that they become self-conscious about not appearing to be biased.
   6634. tshipman Posted: February 10, 2019 at 12:01 PM (#5814087)
Also, the Celtics are strangely terrible when Aron Baynes is out -- I can't find the win-loss numbers, but they're striking (though presumably if you dug into them you'd find other factors at play as well).


Celtics have a difference between theory and results.

In theory, they are a fearsome team to play one big, 3 wings, one point.

In reality, they play much better with one wing, two points, two bigs. I don't really know why that is, but it appears to be the case.

Their starting lineup to start the season that everyone was excited about--Horford, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Kyrie--is actually -3.8 on the season.
   6635. Booey Posted: February 10, 2019 at 12:05 PM (#5814089)
gobert needs to rip the refs so ####### hard that they become self-conscious about not appearing to be biased.


That's what's ironic about the whole thing; the quick whistle the refs have given him ever since he publicly ripped them for inconsistency only proves his point.

But yeah, this isn't a fight he can win. Not getting T's in critical situations is more important than being right.
   6636. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: February 10, 2019 at 12:54 PM (#5814101)
The Clippers sans Harris were not supposed to win road games where they fall behind by 23 points after the first quarter. (Nobody's supposed to win those games.)

It was one of two games yesterday in which a good team lost at home after holding a 20-plus point lead at halftime; the Thunder won in Houston after being down 22 at the half (and 26 at one point). Paul George out-Hardened Harden, outscoring him 45-42 and shooting 18 FT to Harden's 15.
   6637. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 10, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5814103)
Is it time to maybe take Paul George seriously as an MVP candidate?

I guess he's in line behind Giannis and, depending how Houston finishes, Harden. And I would vote for Giannis (and, assuming no major injury or collapse from Milwaukee, I expect he will get it). But George might at least be top three this year.
   6638. Booey Posted: February 10, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5814105)
I guess he's in line behind Giannis and, depending how Houston finishes, Harden. And I would vote for Giannis (and, assuming no major injury or collapse from Milwaukee, I expect he will get it). But George might at least be top three this year.


Curry, Durant, and Kawhi need to be in the conversation. LeBron would have been before he got hurt.

But yeah, PG has been great. Just looked him up and he's at 28.3 ppg! I was thinking he was somewhere in the 25-26 range.
   6639. PJ Martinez Posted: February 10, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5814106)
Milwaukee is a feel-good team, but there is something I don't trust about them. May be the narrative about their offense, when it's their D that's a lot better. Maybe it's the reliance on Giannis, who is great but doesn't shoot well. I don't know. ORL destroying them didn't help.
-- Dean Oliver
   6640. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 10, 2019 at 01:15 PM (#5814107)
It amazes me that people take any result on the back end of a back-to-back seriously. Milwaukee didn't give a damn about that game.

That said--yes, I have several times watched Milwaukee games this year in which they build a big lead, then Giannis rests in the third quarter and the other team erases it in a few minutes. It happened against Dallas the other night--and it was Dallas's bench that went on something like a 22-3 run against Milwaukee while Giannis sat (Middleton also didn't play in that game.) And it does seem like they are particularly hopeless on defense without Giannis on the floor.

I don't think it has anything to do with Giannis' shooting. They have plenty of shooters now. But it seems like they are really, really bad when he's not on the floor, even more so than other teams without their superstar (except maybe the Lakers).
   6641. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: February 10, 2019 at 01:53 PM (#5814114)
Milwaukee: They remind me a bit of the 2009-2010 Cleveland teams. Those teams went 66-16 and 61-21. The 2009 Cavs were 3rd in ORTG and 4th in DRTG, and the 2010 Cavs were 6th and 7th. They had James at age 24 and age 25, putting up PERs over 30, but they didn't make it out of the East either year. That said, Middleton and Bledsoe are better than the second and third-best guys Cleveland had back then. So, while the Orlando game may not mean anything, there are reasons to be cautious about Milwaukee in postseason IMO.

Boston: Hayward has a 14.4 PER, a .537 TS, and a 0.2 BPM. His last year in Utah he was at 22.2, .595, and 4.2. His DBPM in Utah was 0.0, so the BPM was all O. Sometimes I look at things too simplistically, like Kidd/Budenholzer, but I continue to believe that the "problem" with Boston is that Hayward is just a guy now, instead of a very good guy. I remember there were several Hayward vs. George convos here before they changed teams. Even so, Boston is 9th in ORTG and 5th in DRTG, and any team that is Top-10 in both will usually be a tough out in a best-of-7 (unless you are the Raptors playing the LeBron James Cavs).
   6642. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: February 10, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5814115)
BTW, Basketball on Paper by Dean Oliver is kind of the seminal basketball sabermetrics book, and I recommend it
   6643. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: February 10, 2019 at 02:45 PM (#5814124)
The Bucks have about a +5 net rating when Giannis isn't on the floor, which would put them at 6th in the league. I think one of the many reasons that they've been notably better this year is that they're still good when Giannis sits, and it's led to him playing his fewest minutes since his 2nd year in the league (33 a night).

And presumably they'll only get better since Niko will be taking some of those bench minutes away from Ersan, who's been terrible.
   6644. PJ Martinez Posted: February 10, 2019 at 02:45 PM (#5814125)
Even so, Boston is 9th in ORTG and 5th in DRTG
This is sort of my point: even with Hayward (and other players, to varying degrees: Brown, Rozier, Tatum) disappointing, Boston's fundamentals are strong, and they have some quality wins this year. But they seem to play down to their opponents even more than most teams, to roll over on back-to-backs more than previous Stevens teams have, and, in general, to be less consistent and less resilient than you might expect a team that's outscoring its opponents by 6.5 points per game to me. Maybe it's all noise and randomness, but watching the games it doesn't look that way; it looks like there is a real incohesion and frustration that is hurting the team in what might otherwise be winnable games. Hard to measure that, of course.
Their starting lineup to start the season that everyone was excited about--Horford, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Kyrie--is actually -3.8 on the season.
That lineup was utterly abysmal; that said, Hayward and Brown are both playing better since the lineups were changed, and correlation may or may not be causation there. I'll be curious to see whether the latest bit of turmoil prompts Stevens to fiddle with his lineups again; Morris said he'd be happy to come off the bench if that helped, and given that he's no longer particularly outplaying Brown or Hayward, I wouldn't mind if that happened.
   6645. PJ Martinez Posted: February 10, 2019 at 02:46 PM (#5814126)
Magic Johnson is asked if New Orleans had good faith negotiations with the Lakers: “No.”
   6646. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: February 10, 2019 at 03:01 PM (#5814128)
Maybe it's all noise and randomness, but watching the games it doesn't look that way; it looks like there is a real incohesion and frustration that is hurting the team in what might otherwise be winnable games. Hard to measure that, of course.


The main item is that Boston has a 39-17 PYTH. So, they may be a little better than the W/L record indicates. The b2b home losses to the Lakers and the Clippers were frustrating for Boston fans for obvious reasons, but probably not significant big picture. In an 82-game schedule, shitt happens. If you look at the Lakers 3p numbers, several of the core guys have shot worse than they did last year (Stephenson has been far above his career numbers but on balance they have been a bit worse than might have been expected). So, they may have a few more big games the rest of the way in that regard, especially if Bullock and Muscala shoot around their career numbers (and the Lakers will need that to happen to make postseason since they have a tough schedule the last 27 games).

The stuff about laying down in b2bs and frustration and incohesion....well, no offense, but that is team-based blog stuff that fans say when their teams lose games that the fans think they shouldn't have.

Boston has a good team, but I do not think that they are coming out of the upgraded East unless Hayward plays significantly better. But I may be wrong. Milwaukee is very good, obviously, but I do not think that they are going to steamroll the other three teams. I am an old-school star power/roster core guy, so I kind of like Philadelphia's chances with Butler and Harris. We will see.
   6647. tshipman Posted: February 10, 2019 at 03:04 PM (#5814129)
This is sort of my point: even with Hayward (and other players, to varying degrees: Brown, Rozier, Tatum) disappointing, Boston's fundamentals are strong, and they have some quality wins this year. But they seem to play down to their opponents even more than most teams, to roll over on back-to-backs more than previous Stevens teams have, and, in general, to be less consistent and less resilient than you might expect a team that's outscoring its opponents by 6.5 points per game to me. Maybe it's all noise and randomness, but watching the games it doesn't look that way; it looks like there is a real incohesion and frustration that is hurting the team in what might otherwise be winnable games. Hard to measure that, of course.


Perhaps in support of this:

Against the bottom 4 teams in the East (I used those teams because the Cavs, Bulls Hawks and Knicks are all not trying to win games), the Celtics have an 11-1 record and a point differential of +18.25.

Against the rest of the NBA, they are 24-20, and have a point differential of +3.2.

Every team beats up on bad teams, but the Celtics are a bit extreme. The Bucks, by comparison, since they play roughly the same conference schedule:

9-1 vs. the weak sisters, with a +14 point differential
and
32-13 vs. the rest of the NBA, with a +8.78 point differential.
   6648. spivey Posted: February 10, 2019 at 03:06 PM (#5814130)
And presumably they'll only get better since Niko will be taking some of those bench minutes away from Ersan, who's been terrible.


Sweet jesus is this true. He was so bad last night. He cannot stay in front of anyone without fouling, and constantly tries to body block people. I thought the signing was good at the time given their lack of depth/shooting/rebounding. But with Mirotic now and DJ Wilson in the future I don't want him playing more than like 9th or 10th man minutes.
   6649. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 10, 2019 at 03:20 PM (#5814133)
I am an old-school star power/roster core guy, so I kind of like Philadelphia's chances with Butler and Harris. We will see.
has there been a team in the last 20 years that's been thrown together in the middle of the season and then surpassed expectations in the playoffs?

2 of 5 sixer starters were added mid-season (butler and harris)
4 of 6 key bench players were added mid-season (boban, scott, ennis*, simmons)


even CLE only turned over 1 starter (george hill) and 3 bench players (nance, hood, clarkson) during last year's kitchen sink throwing.


*i would argue that ennis should start over redick, since that would improve the defense, add scoring to the bench, cut down on redick's minutes (since he's old as hell), and free up possessions for the other starters (since ennis is very low-usage), while still providing floor spacing (since ennis can shoot).
   6650. PJ Martinez Posted: February 10, 2019 at 03:22 PM (#5814135)
The stuff about laying down in b2bs and frustration and incohesion....well, no offense, but that is team-based blog stuff that fans say when their teams lose games that the fans think they shouldn't have.
I am genuinely curious: do you not think that interpersonal issues affect performance in basketball? Or do you think they do but our ability to perceive that effect is so imperfect as to make it not worth talking about? I can respect the latter, though I obviously disagree; the former proposition strikes me as extreme. It is of course true that various outlets (not just fan-blogs but many national sports columns) overplay the psychological or emotional dimension of sports at the expense of analytics, but I think a lot of people who care about analytics ignore that dimension in a way that makes their analysis superficial, too, albeit in a very different way. (This is why I continue to prefer Zach Lowe to guys like Pelton or the Dunc'd On crew, though I enjoy them all.)
Boston has a good team, but I do not think that they are coming out of the upgraded East unless Hayward plays significantly better.
This I agree with.

On the news front, Woj says that Irving's right knee sprain is not serious and that he's day to day.

P.S. I realize that #### happens: on Thursday, the Lakers hit a crazy number of threes and Irving was strangely off, so that (extremely close) loss didn't strike me as particularly revealing, even if Boston blew an 18-point lead. But in the loss against the Clippers the team seemed (not for the first time) out of sync, including on the defensive end (where Irving's absence shouldn't be as big a deal).
   6651. tshipman Posted: February 10, 2019 at 03:41 PM (#5814138)
I am genuinely curious: do you not think that interpersonal issues affect performance in basketball? Or do you think they do but our ability to perceive that effect is so imperfect as to make it not worth talking about? I can respect the latter, though I obviously disagree; the former proposition strikes me as extreme. It is of course true that various outlets (not just fan-blogs but many national sports columns) overplay the psychological or emotional dimension of sports at the expense of analytics, but I think a lot of people who care about analytics ignore that dimension in a way that makes their analysis superficial, too, albeit in a very different way. (This is why I continue to prefer Zach Lowe to guys like Pelton or the Dunc'd On crew, though I enjoy them all.)


Interpersonal issues have impact, but our ability to predict interpersonal issues is poor. The Shaq/Kobe Lakers had some serious interpersonal issues, but it didn't matter until it did. Rasheed Wallace was a malcontent who sabotaged his teams until he wasn't.

In the absence of the ability to make accurate predictions about those issues, it's probably most honest to shrug and say we don't know when discussing it.

Everyone looks frustrated when they lose, and incoherent when open shots are going down.
   6652. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: February 10, 2019 at 04:35 PM (#5814154)
In the absence of the ability to make accurate predictions about those issues, it's probably most honest to shrug and say we don't know when discussing it.

Which is the only really reasonable position to take. It's fun to speculate, however.
   6653. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 10, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5814160)
SO CLOSE!!!
   6654. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: February 10, 2019 at 05:06 PM (#5814162)
[6648] the Pistons acquired Sheed midseason, and that worked out well.

There aren't that many contending teams that acquired two starters midyear, I imagine, so sample size is really low. Not sure anything is really predictive of anything here.
   6655. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 10, 2019 at 05:52 PM (#5814169)
i know leborn doesn't regret going to LA, but he really should have come to philly instead. at least for a year.


embiid, harris, redick and butler had 95 points on 55 FGAs. that's pretty decent, right?
   6656. Tin Angel Posted: February 10, 2019 at 06:04 PM (#5814176)
In the absence of the ability to make accurate predictions about those issues, it's probably most honest to shrug and say we don't know when discussing it.


Since Bill Simmons annoys me to no end, I would like to again point out on the Lowe Post he predicted the Warriors wouldn't repeat because of their "interpersonal issues."
   6657. GregD Posted: February 10, 2019 at 06:10 PM (#5814177)
BTW, Basketball on Paper by Dean Oliver is kind of the seminal basketball sabermetrics book, and I recommend it
Thanks. And recommend it still, not just as a record of the development of basketball sabermetrics? Any others you recommend?
   6658. Hot Wheeling American Posted: February 10, 2019 at 06:49 PM (#5814185)
High Flying Bird is a relevant watch for this thread. On Netflix, directed by Soderbergh.
   6659. Tin Angel Posted: February 10, 2019 at 06:50 PM (#5814186)
High Flying Bird is a relevant watch for this thread. On Netflix, directed by Soderbergh.


Watching this tonight, looking forward to it.
   6660. PJ Martinez Posted: February 10, 2019 at 07:19 PM (#5814188)
In the absence of the ability to make accurate predictions about those issues, it's probably most honest to shrug and say we don't know when discussing it.
But there's a difference between trying to make accurate predictions and trying to understand, to the best of one's ability, the things that have already happened. I am at least equally interested in the latter, as a fan. And there are things you can see happening on the court that reflect internal states that we can't properly measure. Someone mentioned back-to-backs above: we all know that teams do worse on those, because they're tired. We can't measure fatigue precisely, but it would be foolish to discount it. When a player is dealing with an injury, we take that into account when analyzing their play, even though, again, we can't determine with precision what effect an injury is having. When you see players get annoyed with each other, and give up on plays, and fail to hustle over on defense or pass to the open man -- and then when the players themselves say there's a lack of unity in the locker room and people aren't focused for this reason or that reason, sure, you can shrug your shoulders and say that drawing any conclusions about that would be less than empirical, or conclude that all such commentary is mere post-hoc reasoning and utterly without basis, and therefore we must refrain from commentary about it. But that's missing something, in my view.

E.g., why has Terry Rozier been so much less effective this year than he was in last year's playoffs? Is it randomness? Maybe; there was probably some luck involved in that playoff run. But is it also because he wants to start and brings an energy when he's getting all the touches and attention he wants that is lacking when he has to come off the bench? I suspect that has something to do with it, though obviously I don't know for sure.

Guys like Bill Simmons give these sorts of observations a bad name because he talks as though he *knows* what's going on and as though it explains 75% of what's happening sometimes. Which I'm sure we would all agree is not the case. But ignoring this aspect of sports entirely is not more accurate; it just limits the discussion to things that we can assess with more confidence.
   6661. PJ Martinez Posted: February 10, 2019 at 07:25 PM (#5814190)
   6662. baudib Posted: February 10, 2019 at 07:46 PM (#5814192)
Can't give Elton Brand enough credit for what he's done this year.
   6663. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 10, 2019 at 07:47 PM (#5814193)
It's pretty funny that Marcus Morris of all people is ######## to the media that the Celtics don't play enough like a team. I appreciate the things Morris does well, but a defense really has to harass the hell out of him to force him to pass the basketball.
   6664. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 10, 2019 at 08:12 PM (#5814194)
@sreekyshooter

Ben Simmons saw Kendall Jenner looking at LeBron like this and decided to start shooting 3s oh my god


https://twitter.com/sreekyshooter/status/1094722580685049857

Still not as good as Rihanna brushing off Durant but loving Lebron.
   6665. tshipman Posted: February 10, 2019 at 08:19 PM (#5814195)
But there's a difference between trying to make accurate predictions and trying to understand, to the best of one's ability, the things that have already happened. I am at least equally interested in the latter, as a fan. And there are things you can see happening on the court that reflect internal states that we can't properly measure. Someone mentioned back-to-backs above: we all know that teams do worse on those, because they're tired. We can't measure fatigue precisely, but it would be foolish to discount it. When a player is dealing with an injury, we take that into account when analyzing their play, even though, again, we can't determine with precision what effect an injury is having. When you see players get annoyed with each other, and give up on plays, and fail to hustle over on defense or pass to the open man -- and then when the players themselves say there's a lack of unity in the locker room and people aren't focused for this reason or that reason, sure, you can shrug your shoulders and say that drawing any conclusions about that would be less than empirical, or conclude that all such commentary is mere post-hoc reasoning and utterly without basis, and therefore we must refrain from commentary about it. But that's missing something, in my view.


The reason why predicting is important is because it means that we really do understand it.

If we can look back, and say, "Oh, well the reason this happened was because guys were upset." Well, maybe that's true, maybe it's not. The reason why predicting matters, because it shows that you actually understand something.
   6666. spivey Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:06 PM (#5814200)
Boston is very good, they overperformed last year, so people had too high of expectations this year, and they're slightly underperforming this year. But if everyone's healthy they will be a tough out.
   6667. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:10 PM (#5814201)
The perhaps disappointing reality is that the Eastern Conference champion will very likely just be whichever of the big four is healthiest in May.
   6668. Booey Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:45 PM (#5814207)
Jazz stanning time!

With 5 more dunks against SAS yesterday, Gobert passed Giannis for the league lead (199-197). Both players are on pace to shatter Dwight Howard's 2008 record of 269.

Giannis is actually averaging slightly more dunks per game than Rudy, but he's also missed a few games whereas Gobert has a perfect attendance record so far.
   6669. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:49 PM (#5814208)
Can't give Elton Brand enough credit for what he's done this year.
yes.

GM responsible for acquisition:
hinkie (3): embiid, simmons, mcconnell
colangelo (4): redick, bolden (via hinkie), korkmaz (via hinkie), amir
brown (1): smith (via hinkie)
brand (7): butler (via hinkie), harris (via brown), boban, scott, ennis, j.simmons (via colangelo), patton

   6670. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:58 PM (#5814209)
Interpersonal aspects: In addition to what shipman said, I think that fandom adds a signal/noise issue to it. A Lakers example: As a rookie, Ingram shot .294 on 3s. Last year, he shot .390. This year, he is at .289. The .390 was one of the reasons Lowe gave for believing in Ingram heading into the year. If you listen to various subsets of Lakers fans, Ingram is shooting worse because James is toxic and has the ball too much, because Walton is a clownhole, because Ingram's head is messed up because of the possibility he will be included in a trade a for a star, etc. Any or all of those might have some truth in them, but I think the more likely answer is that Ingram is just not that great of a shooter and will probably settle in at .340 or so for his career.

It can be very tough for all of us as fans to get to two places with our guys and our teams:

1. We lost because our guys just aren't that good, will never be that good, and the other team has better guys and will probably still have better guys next year.
2. We lost because shitt happens in games and seasons.

It is easier to blame the refs, or the coach, or the rotations, or the team's mental state, or whatever. My answer on Rozier: like the rest of Boston's role players, he is just not that good. Stevens makes those guys look good because Stevens is a smart guy who puts his players in position to succeed. But over the long haul, they are just guys.

That said, I would never say it is not worth talking about. I think almost anything basketball-related is worth talking about.
   6671. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: February 10, 2019 at 10:07 PM (#5814210)
76ers roster turnover: It is correct that there is not much sample size to go on, and this may be a case where I am oversimplifying, but Philadelphia is arguably the best team OTGS (Other Than Golden State) 1-4 in the league right now. I think they have a good shot to win the East.

Books: Oliver's book was written around the turn of the century, so he is analyzing stuff that is outdated. But he writes pretty well and it was a new way to look at the game for me. The stuff about Bill Russell and Michael Jordan is good. John Hollinger wrote Bill James-style annual books in early 2000s, first as Basketball Forecast then as Basketball Prospectus before getting the gig with the Grizzlies, and those books were good.

Also, Bill Simmons' book is good. Even if you do not like Simmons, there is good stuff in it.
   6672. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 10, 2019 at 10:58 PM (#5814219)
   6673. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 10, 2019 at 11:01 PM (#5814220)
joel embiid is the straight guy who goes to an orgy, then stands in the corner for a while because he's a bit weirded out by the fact that everyone there is male, but then after a few jello shots yells #### it, "who wants to sex 'the process'?"

jj redick is the guy who notices a young woman tied up in the trunk of a taxi while he's taking his luggage out of its trunk, then lets the cab leave before calling the police.

the woman is never identified.
   6674. baudib Posted: February 10, 2019 at 11:16 PM (#5814221)
joel embiid is the straight guy who goes to an orgy, then stands in the corner for a while because he's a bit weirded out by the fact that everyone there is male, but then after a few jello shots yells #### it, "who wants to sex 'the process'?"


I was thinking the exact same thing tbh.
   6675. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 10, 2019 at 11:28 PM (#5814222)
I was thinking the exact same thing tbh.
he's a man of the people.
   6676. Howie Menckel Posted: February 11, 2019 at 12:49 AM (#5814230)
Someone mentioned back-to-backs above: we all know that teams do worse on those, because they're tired.

it makes sense.

in other news, the Islanders hockey team this season is 9-0-0 in the second game of back-to-backs.

they have been irrelevant forever, then were able to hire the Capitals' Stanley Cup-winning coach.

so even after losing their franchise player - John Tavares - they are dominant this year.

I imagine Brad Stevens thinking, "Damn - that dude can COACH!"
   6677. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: February 11, 2019 at 07:25 AM (#5814241)
High Flying Bird is a relevant watch for this thread. On Netflix, directed by Soderbergh.
1308. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 15, 2015 at 02:36 PM (#5000468)
I think that A. the owners have too much to lose by shutting it down for a whole year, and B. the players always, always cave, at least in part because the public can't stand all of these rich black people going on strike for more money, even though it's nearly always a lockout and not a strike, and the players are nearly always in the right. But hey, what are you gonna do, convince the public to not be a bunch of idiots?
the owners need the players a hell of a lot more than the players need the owners. i've said it before, but the players need to start planning for their own league so they can cut the owners out of the equation.

2 conferences, 16 teams, 8 cities. sell the TV rights, sell the naming rights (marvel would have to eat this #### up, right; the anaheim hulkbusters v. the pittsburgh morlocks could sell a ton of merchandise), put advertising on the courts and the uniforms. there would have to be enough money there for lebron to get his 25MM and for mo williams to get his 2. it might be a squeeze for everyone in between, but that would get worked out in the next 5-10 years.
   6678. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 11, 2019 at 08:30 AM (#5814245)
Man, Dion Waiters was bombing last night. I found it both annoying and entertaining as hell at the same time. A confident, healthy Dion Waiters is a fun player. I wouldn't want him on my team, but he can be fun to watch when he's good for someone else.
   6679. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 11, 2019 at 08:59 AM (#5814249)
So Brad Stevens got much love here (and elsewhere) for the job he had done through last year. At what point does he get grief (perhaps even more than he deserves)?

Note: I am not saying he deserves it necessarily, just pointing out the imbalance.
   6680. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 11, 2019 at 09:05 AM (#5814250)
Nate Duncan made the point on his last pod that, by differential, the Celtics are just where you'd expect them to be--on pace for about 57 wins.
   6681. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: February 11, 2019 at 09:51 AM (#5814260)
So Brad Stevens got much love here (and elsewhere) for the job he had done through last year. At what point does he get grief (perhaps even more than he deserves)?

Note: I am not saying he deserves it necessarily, just pointing out the imbalance.

If and when they lose in the second round (or first). Regular season is meaningless. Yeah, you would like better seeding, but as long as they are top 4, it's meh. The most important thing for the regular season was always getting Goblin Hackward back to speed, which was always going to take time (and definitely still a work in progress). The second most important goal was to figure out what works in terms of lineups, strategy, playing time, and so on. Third is making sure everyone is reasonably well rested come playoffs. If they sacrifice a handful of wins in pursuit of those goals, so be it.

If the Celtics do well in the postseason nobody will remember what seed they were, or how many games they won in the regular season. If they lose early, everybody will think they flopped. That is pretty much the deal.
   6682. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 11, 2019 at 10:06 AM (#5814263)
Portland and Dallas are both among the league's most consistently entertaining teams, so it was an easy choice which game to watch last night.

At the end of the first half Doncic passed to Dirk just across halfcourt, and Dirk immediately threw the ball to absolutely no one, because he expected Doncic to take it back and Doncic cut instead. And Doncic stood there and stared Dirk down--a guy who was playing for the Mavericks before Luca was born--like "What the hell, bro?" It was Dirk's mistake and he immediately owned it. But still. It's great that you're a badass and you know that you're a badass, Luka, but show a little respect!

There is nothing in basketball quite like Damian Lillard taking over a game. He started the game 2-for-11 through two and a half quarters--I actually thought he was sitting for a long stretch when he wasn't, he was so invisible--despite which Portland held a lead throughout. Then Dallas surged, poked ahead--and Lillard IMMEDIATELY ripped off 8 straight buckets--that's 8-for-8, 5 of them threes--as Portland opened up a 14 point lead. He did almost the same thing against San Antonio the other night. He does this regularly. I wonder if part of the reason why Portland always seems to overachieve in the regular season, yet always seems so harmless in the postseason, is the regularity with which Lillard can do this against middling-to-weak teams--but it's much harder to pull off against playoff-caliber teams who are well rested and keyed in on stopping you.

Usually when one team's up 15 in the fourth quarter, that's good enough for me to call it done. But I don't even THINK about it when Luka Doncic is involved. Lillard re-entered the game after Dallas closed from 96-81 to 96-93, but he didn't look right down the stretch. He was hesitating and passing out when he had room to shoot, took a couple of wild, out-of-control drives which is very uncharacteristic of him (including the final play of the game), just didn't look right. Stotts may have left him on the bench a minute or two too long in the fourth quarter, perhaps thinking of saving him for tonight's game in OKC. That bit him in the ass, if so.

All in all, a really bad loss for Portland, who are probably going to lose tonight too. But entertaining for us!

Also, Tim Hardaway Jr. can play. He's overpaid, but I don't think he's a pure bad contract. If he could just be persuaded to pass up three or four contested jumpers a night, he can be a good player. I was thinking this before his red hot streak in the second half. He'll always be a liability on defense, but with proper coaching--which he now will get in Dallas--he can help you on offense.

As for Boston, I think by now it's pretty clear, uncomfortable as it may be, that come playoff time Hayward needs to be limited to strictly bottom-of-the-rotation minutes. Possibly benched entirely, depending who's healthy come May. It sucks, and it's pretty brutal to have to tell him this to his face after he's worked so brutally hard for so long to rehab from a horrific injury, but right now he's just not a good enough player to be on the floor for a contender except in bench units. I will be curious as to whether Stevens/Ainge prove willing to do this.
   6683. . . . . . . Posted: February 11, 2019 at 10:33 AM (#5814266)
He'll always be a liability on defense, but with proper coaching--which he now will get in Dallas--he can help you on offense.


Hardaway has been coached for much of his career by Beilein and Budenholzer. Those are 2 of the top ~10 basketball coaches alive? He's been properly coached, he just sucks.
   6684. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 11, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5814297)
@975TheFanatic

"Rob Pelinka called me and said that Ben (Simmons) wanted to talk to Hall of Famers after the season, Magic was on the list. He asked for authorization... I said no. This was over a month ago." - Elton Brand shooting down the Ben/Magic meeting


https://twitter.com/975TheFanatic/status/1095002105427955713

Magic really loves tampering.
   6685. jmurph Posted: February 11, 2019 at 12:54 PM (#5814299)
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw
The Pelicans would prefer to sit, and protect the health of, Anthony Davis until trying to trade him this summer, but the NBA threatened to fine the team $100K per game under the NBA's anti-resting policy--a policy that relates to anti-tanking.

I think I alluded to this last week, but this is total bullshit. Houston didn't have to play Carmelo. The Knicks don't have to play Kanter. The Celtics don't have to play Guerschon Yabusele. Is there a talent test for this, now? The league gets to decide who is too good to get a DNP-CD? Teams should really be putting their foot down over this.

EDIT: More names, from a Marc Stein thread: Zach Randolph, Parsons, JR Smith, I'm sure there are many more. None of these were a problem. I'm not defending all of the things New Orleans has done to find themselves in this place, but it's pretty obviously in their best interests now to not play Davis, given he wants a trade and has a long injury history. It's not like they're not planning to pay him, but I just don't understand how the league has grounds to demand a specific player get minutes.
   6686. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5814308)
The league gets to decide who is too good to get a DNP-CD?

I don't think it's a coincidence that Chandler Parsons will be playing now, too. Optics! I think the only spectacle dumber than AD not playing, is the Pelicans playing him 20 minutes a game and sitting him in the 4th quarter.
   6687. JC in DC Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:16 PM (#5814317)
I agree on Hardaway. Coaching isn't the problem; not being very good is.

I couldn't disagree more about the NBA fining NOP for not playing Davis. The NOP have value because of the league. It's the league's job to pursue game integrity and competition. So, yes, talent does matter. Only Mr. and Mrs. Kornet care if Luke is playing; the rest of the paying customers want to see Mitchell Robinson.
   6688. SteveF Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:18 PM (#5814320)
the Celtics are just where you'd expect them to be--on pace for about 57 wins.

Assuming you expected the team to win 57 games! It's hard to look at their roster and see 57 wins, maybe even with a completely whole Gordon Hayward[sic].
   6689. jmurph Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:19 PM (#5814322)
I couldn't disagree more about the NBA fining NOP for not playing Davis. The NOP have value because of the league. It's the league's job to pursue game integrity and competition. So, yes, talent does matter. Only Mr. and Mrs. Kornet care if Luke is playing; the rest of the paying customers want to see Mitchell Robinson.

You're disagreeing with me by pointing out that the Knicks should focus on their future by playing Mitchell Robinson?
   6690. JC in DC Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5814324)
The last part was a joke, silly. The first part is the disagreement.
   6691. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:23 PM (#5814325)
Kornet is 23 years old, 7-1, and shooting 43% from three.
I'd want to see SOME Kornet.
   6692. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:25 PM (#5814327)
If and when they lose in the second round (or first). Regular season is meaningless.


For the record I think this is way too reductive. Coaching matters in the regular season and under performing expectations then should matter. If you get better seeding in the regular season you are less likely to go out in the first or second round.

I mean I get what you are saying, but I don't think Stevens got his wunderkind reputation based on massive playoff success, so why should it only be harmed with playoff failure?

Again, I have no idea if Stevens if a great coach, bad coach, or just another guy, but his rep suggests he is a top tier coach and what we are hearing from the locker room and the results we are seeing on the court don't really align with that reputation.
   6693. jmurph Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:26 PM (#5814328)
The last part was a joke, silly. The first part is the disagreement.

Okay. But the Knicks are a good example of this, I think! Kanter is very clearly one of their best players. But they've (correctly, I think!) determined that a guy who isn't long for the team is not the best place to invest minutes during this season in which they're obviously not going to make the playoffs.
   6694. JC in DC Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:28 PM (#5814329)
Stevens is good, but as Howie suggested above, he's not Trotz good. Go Isles!
   6695. JC in DC Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:30 PM (#5814330)
Kanter is very clearly one of their best players.


He really wasn't. He was terrible except for accumulating some numbers. I would play Kornet over him, or Robinson, or Vonleh. He was so awful defensively teams were mocking him in games.
   6696. jmurph Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:32 PM (#5814331)
The Knicks have a great deal of bad players, point conceded. But he's obviously good enough to be in their rotation.
   6697. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:37 PM (#5814335)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 48s48 seconds ago

Jeremy Lin is finalizing a buyout with Atlanta, clearing the way for him to sign with Toronto, agents Jim Tanner and Roger Montgomery tell ESPN.
   6698. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:39 PM (#5814337)
such a weird and not great signing for atlanta (and i like lin. sort of).
   6699. jmurph Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:40 PM (#5814338)
such a weird and not great signing for atlanta (and i like lin).

Their entire approach to the last couple years has been odd.
   6700. JC in DC Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:41 PM (#5814339)
The Knicks have a great deal of bad players, point conceded.


Yes. Yes, indeed.
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