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Tuesday, April 16, 2019

OT - NBA thread (Playoffs through off-season)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and this one only cares about the NBA thread and the Cubs so I have no idea what the rest of the website cares about.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 16, 2019 at 02:18 PM | 4193 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   3301. sardonic Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:43 PM (#5850628)
I'm honestly not sure Golden State wouldn't do it? Would that shock anyone?

EDIT: This is maybe muddled. I'm saying I don't think I'd be surprised if the Warriors gave him a 3+1 (or whatever) 3 weeks from now, coming off the surgery.


I think they would. For one thing, they're capped out anyway, so they can't really get talent any other way. For another thing, it seems like the right thing to do, and the Warriors notably with Iguodala have shown a willingness to take care of their own players. Lacob grumbles sometimes about the luxury tax (and, to be fair, it is a crapload of money) but evidence to date is that they will not let money slow them down from putting the best team together (Gave Curry the supermax, Iguodala 3rd year, big contract to Kerr, buying second round picks consistently, using the MLE every year to add talent like Nick Young and a rehabbing DMC).
   3302. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:44 PM (#5850629)
Bobby Marks said he talked to three teams that would.


I don't doubt it. But I do doubt Durant has any interest in playing for the likes of Atlanta, Cleveland, and Sacramento. :)

If it weren't for their disaster of a medical staff, New Orleans would be a reeeeeal interesting destination for a superstar who's going to miss next season...
   3303. spivey Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:45 PM (#5850630)
Armchair doctoring: Durant's initial "calf" injury seemed so much like an achilles injury. I think these doctors are good at their jobs, even though it seems like almost every training team is #### on, but I wonder if there was something missed?
   3304. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:47 PM (#5850632)
Or if Golden State's doctors knew exactly what kind of injury it was, but Durant insisted on playing anyway.
   3305. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:47 PM (#5850633)
If it weren't for their disaster of a medical staff, New Orleans would be a reeeeeal interesting destination for a superstar who's going to miss next season...

The Warriors should sign him and then trade him for AD, just to troll the world.
   3306. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:49 PM (#5850634)
achilles tears aren't that painful compared to other major injuries. at first, you think someone kicked you in the back of the leg, and then you just kind of hobble around because your leg doesn't move right.

Yeah, I was playing pickup ball and fell over on the perimeter (not an unusual occurrence, but). It felt exactly like someone had accidentally kicked my heel and it knocked me over. Then, I got up and couldn't put any weight on the foot, but that I assumed was a sprain or a rolled ankle. It wasn't until I noticed that I couldn't actually move my foot that I realized how bad it was.
   3307. jmurph Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:50 PM (#5850636)
Or if Golden State's doctors knew exactly what kind of injury it was, but Durant insisted on playing anyway.

I don't think he'd be cleared, in that case, and therefore wouldn't be allowed to play.
   3308. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:59 PM (#5850637)
I have to imagine the decision was made to let him play because they thought the risk of further injury was acceptable but non-zero, and everyone is sick about that decision in hindsight. Pretty impossible to know how much of a gamble they took from outside the HIPAA circle of trust.
   3309. sardonic Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:00 PM (#5850638)
If it weren't for their disaster of a medical staff, New Orleans would be a reeeeeal interesting destination for a superstar who's going to miss next season...


David Griffin actually brought on a new head trainer from Phoenix.

I do get the sense that NBA stars/players general form bonds with players of roughly the same age (hence the Banana Boat crew, etc.) as a result of stuff like Team USA, coming into the league together, even competing in AAU together. It'd be cool for us to see KD player with Zion, but I doubt it has the same appeal to KD.
   3310. sardonic Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:03 PM (#5850639)
I have to imagine the decision was made to let him play because they thought the risk of further injury was acceptable but non-zero, and everyone is sick about that decision in hindsight. Pretty impossible to know how much of a gamble they took from outside the HIPAA circle of trust.


Yeah, this is also my guess. Everyone who knows KD always talks about how much he loves to play ball. I'd guess that he pushed to play.
   3311. Eddo Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:19 PM (#5850646)
edit: Either he was jacked full of some world class painkillers out there or he is one TOUGH mofo, because when his Achilles blew he knew it immediately, and just sat down with no expression on his face. I would have been screaming in agony and begging someone to kill me, I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, that struck me, too - how emotionless he was. No apparent pain, no muttered \"####\" under his breath, no disappointed look that he'd re-injured it... just a blank expression. Odd and amazing.
   3312. Tin Angel Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:33 PM (#5850655)
Kobe was similar when he tore his. Hell, he wouldn’t even let anyone help him walk off the court.
   3313. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:10 PM (#5850675)
KD did yell out a bleeped \"####\" as he left the court.

Unrelated, but I've been training jiu-jitsu for about 10 months now and at a recent tournament this woman I train with had her elbow dislocated and she just kind of sat there angry, but silent, as the doctor attempted to tend to her. I'm certain I would have been screaming bloody murder.
   3314. aberg Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:14 PM (#5850677)
I don't think there's any team that would prefer to have KD injured, but for a team like the Knicks, having another year for their young players to develop and/or having KD in pocket as a centerpiece to attract other talent plus getting a year of free tanking with no negative fan reaction.
   3315. Booey Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:23 PM (#5850685)
They've ignored all the job applications I've mailed them requesting to be the new GM, but if I DID run the Jazz, I'd absolutely still offer KD the full max. However slim, the chance that he might heal completely and still be KEVIN FREAKIN' DURANT! for the last 3 years of the contract is too great to ignore, especially since the odds of Utah picking up a different free agent that good are about the same as the odds of Zion falling into our lap after 22 teams passed on him in the draft.
   3316. jmurph Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:41 PM (#5850703)
Jeff Zillgitt @JeffZillgitt
Warriors forward Draymond Green can't afford a technical foul in Game 6. If he gets one, he will receive an automatic suspension (per NBA rules) for Game 7, if there is one.

Surely it will take an actual act of violence for Draymond to pick up another technical? At least I hope so. Draymond certainly earns his share (and then some) but I hate this rule.
   3317. JL72 Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:54 PM (#5850711)
I don't think there's any team that would prefer to have KD injured, but for a team like the Knicks, having another year for their young players to develop and/or having KD in pocket as a centerpiece to attract other talent plus getting a year of free tanking with no negative fan reaction.


Makes me think back to the late 90s Spurs, when David Robinson went down with an injury. The team fell apart and the Spurs ended up with Tim Duncan.
   3318. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 11, 2019 at 05:11 PM (#5850715)
Unrelated, but I've been training jiu-jitsu for about 10 months now and at a recent tournament this woman I train with had her elbow dislocated and she just kind of sat there angry, but silent, as the doctor attempted to tend to her. I'm certain I would have been screaming bloody murder.
adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
Surely it will take an actual act of violence for Draymond to pick up another technical? At least I hope so. Draymond certainly earns his share (and then some) but I hate this rule.
the rule is awful.
i hope he gets suspended for game 7.
They've ignored all the job applications I've mailed them requesting to be the new GM, but if I DID run the Jazz, I'd absolutely still offer KD the full max. However slim, the chance that he might heal completely and still be KEVIN FREAKIN' DURANT! for the last 3 years of the contract is too great to ignore, especially since the odds of Utah picking up a different free agent that good are about the same as the odds of Zion falling into our lap after 22 teams passed on him in the draft.
the jazz should absolutely do that.

also, does KD's personality remind anyone else of derrick fisher?
   3319. Booey Posted: June 11, 2019 at 06:12 PM (#5850733)
the jazz should absolutely do that.


Hire me as GM? :-D
   3320. sardonic Posted: June 11, 2019 at 06:28 PM (#5850737)
Can we just have a pact that if one of us wins the Powerball, that we're going to buy a team (the Kings?) and hire this thread to work in the front office, right? Moses and Der-K will be President of Basketball Operations and GM, of course.
   3321. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 11, 2019 at 06:32 PM (#5850738)
Can we just have a pact that if one of us wins the Powerball, that we're going to buy a team (the Kings?) and hire this thread to work in the front office, right? Moses and Der-K will be President of Basketball Operations and GM, of course.

dibs on "executive vice president of media relations and bovine waste"
   3322. aberg Posted: June 11, 2019 at 06:54 PM (#5850743)
I will sign up for this pact. What would be the cheapest NBA franchise? I was shocked that Newcastle- not a top EPL team but one with some history and a chance to be good again- just sold for E350. Is there an NBA team that is worth less than $750m at this point? I'm thinking Pacers, Pelicans, Hornets, Grizzlies, Kings are probably the least valuable, but not all equally purchasable. Who else- Cavs? Pistons? Buffalo Braves? Chicago Zephyrs?
   3323. aberg Posted: June 11, 2019 at 07:22 PM (#5850753)
dibs on "executive vice president of media relations and bovine waste"


Are you sure? Nobody has even applied for Assistant Director of Normal Collars.
   3324. sardonic Posted: June 11, 2019 at 08:01 PM (#5850757)
Raptors fans have certainly taken a heel turn after all the positive press early in the series.

@TheRenderMedia
Raptors fans heckling and swearing at Stephen Curry’s mom outside their hotel


Raptors fans cheering "F--- KD" in Jurassic Park with a fan self-captioning: "LMAOOOO F--- KD ACHILLES ASS B----"

Between entitled minority owners and the riotous North, is it even safe to go to a game these days?
   3325. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 11, 2019 at 08:08 PM (#5850758)
Perhaps it is time to recall the 2011 Vancouver Stanley Cup riot.
   3326. tshipman Posted: June 11, 2019 at 08:49 PM (#5850767)
Raptors fans have certainly taken a heel turn after all the positive press early in the series.


Let's not forget the ######### excusing it in this thread and following up with a smiley face.
   3327. JJ1986 Posted: June 11, 2019 at 09:08 PM (#5850773)
Even with Durant's injury and Kyrie preferring Brooklyn, the Knicks can still end up with Two All-Stars in free agency.
   3328. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: June 11, 2019 at 09:11 PM (#5850776)
@darrenrovell
JUST IN: A pair of floor seats was just purchased on the @warriors website for game 6 of the NBA Finals in Oakland on Thursday for $106,066.26.
   3329. Paul D(uda) Posted: June 11, 2019 at 09:16 PM (#5850777)
Toronto media has dug up footage of Golden State fans cheering when Kawhi got hurt in 2017. Which isn't helpful.
   3330. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 11, 2019 at 10:30 PM (#5850795)
[3326] Man, you Warriors fans are getting real touchy these days.
   3331. tshipman Posted: June 11, 2019 at 10:54 PM (#5850800)
In Toronto's most popular sport, fans routinely cheer the deliberate injury of other players.

I'm just saying.

If you don't like it, I'll happily drop my gloves ;)


Is this the kind of #### that belongs in a basketball discussion?
   3332. JC in DC Posted: June 12, 2019 at 01:48 AM (#5850826)
It's all just another reminder of the general grace with which most athletes in any sport handle the sheer nonsense and offensive behavior directed at them by fans who have nothing at stake and no accountability. Many fans are complete tools.
   3333. O Tempura, O Morays ('Spos) Posted: June 12, 2019 at 08:13 AM (#5850838)
Toronto's most popular sport...


...is moaning about the Leafs. Second most popular appears to be hoops, third is probably hockey.
   3334. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 12, 2019 at 09:36 AM (#5850855)
Forbes team value estimates are notoriously iffy but they have every NBA valued at $1.2B or more, with a cluster of the usual suspects at that floor.
   3335. JJ1986 Posted: June 12, 2019 at 09:45 AM (#5850857)
Do we want to pick teams for a mock draft this year? I can do the list of teams and try to see who has been claimed so far.
   3336. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 12, 2019 at 09:50 AM (#5850860)
I'll take the Pistons if someone is organizing a mock draft and there's still an open spot.
   3337. sardonic Posted: June 12, 2019 at 09:57 AM (#5850862)
Forbes team value estimates are notoriously iffy but they have every NBA valued at $1.2B or more, with a cluster of the usual suspects at that floor.


See, there's the business acumen of a Team President right there.
   3338. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:16 AM (#5850881)
Search for Stephen A.’s and Irving’s names online, and two videos will appear side by side, both clipped from episodes of First Take. “Stephen A. Hints That Kyrie Irving Might Join the Lakers in Free Agency,” reads the first, posted January 17, 2019. “Stephen A.’s Sources Say ‘No Way in Hell’ Kyrie Irving Is Going to the Lakers,” reads the other, published on May 13, 2019. Two days prior, Stephen A. reported that Irving was a “95 percent” certainty to sign with the Knicks. Just last week, he told First Take viewers that Irving had “given every indication” that he planned on coming to Brooklyn. No matter what happens, Stephen A. will be at least two-thirds wrong.


i wouldn't recommend reading the bulk of the article, but the intro is pretty great.
   3339. JJ1986 Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:17 AM (#5850884)
There were only a few teams claimed and I reassigned some from last year. I took the Pacers and assigned other people who said they would take any team. Take yourself off or switch yourself if you want a different team or out.

MHS usually drafts for the Celtics, but I haven’t seen him post for awhile, so I left them unassigned.

1. New Orleans
2. Memphis
3. New York – JC and NJ
4. Los Angeles Lakers - Hombre/rr
5. Cleveland - Harlond
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic
7. Chicago - Moses
8. Atlanta - Der-K
9. Washington
10. Atlanta - Der-K
11. Minnesota - aberg
12. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
13. Miami
14. Boston
15. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
16. Orlando – Mouse
17. Atlanta - Der-K
18. Indiana – JJ1986
19. San Antonio
20. Boston
21. Oklahoma City
22. Boston
23. Utah - Booey/Cervo
24. Philadelphia- 57i66135
25. Portland
26. Cleveland - Harlond
27. Brooklyn
28. Golden State - sardonic
29. San Antonio
30. Milwaukee – Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw

31. Brooklyn
32. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic
33. Philadelphia- 57i66135
34. Philadelphia- 57i66135
35. Atlanta - Der-K
36. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
37. Dallas
38. Chicago - Moses
39. New Orleans
40. Sacramento - smileyy
41. Atlanta - Der-K
42. Philadelphia- 57i66135
43. Minnesota - aberg
44. Atlanta- Der-K
45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
46. Orlando – Mouse
47. Sacramento - smileyy
48. LA Clippers
49. San Antonio
50. Indiana – JJ1986
51. Boston
52. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135
55. New York – JC and NJ
56. LA Clippers
57. New Orleans
58. Golden State - sardonic
59. Toronto
60. Sacramento - smileyy
   3340. BrianBrianson Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:22 AM (#5850887)
Is this the kind of #### that belongs in a basketball discussion?


Oh, perhaps not. But if the Raptors sucked, the city wouldn't be buying computers off Leonard's brother at twice retail.
   3341. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:22 AM (#5850889)
How long have you guys done mock drafts here? Do any of you have the results from past years?
   3342. JJ1986 Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:27 AM (#5850892)
How long have you guys done mock drafts here? Do any of you have the results from past years?
2014 or '15 was the first one. I don't have full results (stiggles probably does), but I know that I took Fred VanVleet late in the second round.
   3343. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:27 AM (#5850894)
I’ll take Washington unless there’s a serious Wizards fan lurking out there who wants them.
   3344. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5850895)
How long have you guys done mock drafts here? Do any of you have the results from past years?

I single-handedly turned around the Nets fortune a couple years ago but rested on my laurels last year.
   3345. Willard Baseball Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:32 AM (#5850897)
I am just a lurker, but did Memphis last year and would be happy to do so again.
   3346. RJ in TO Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:48 AM (#5850907)
I’ll take Washington unless there’s a serious Wizards fan lurking out there who wants them.

Serious Wizards fans are probably too depressed to post here.
   3347. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:55 AM (#5850916)
2014 or '15 was the first one. I don't have full results (stiggles probably does), but I know that I took Fred VanVleet late in the second round.
i think 2015 was the first one. i know i drafted okafor that year.
2016, i drafted ben simmons, jaylen brown and kris dunn.
2017, i drafted josh jackson and justin jackson
2018, i drafted shai gilgeous alexander.
   3348. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:55 AM (#5850919)
fun fact:
this will be the first year where i do not trade richaun holmes.
   3349. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:56 AM (#5850920)
oh, right:
in 2018, i also traded dario saric for andre drummond.
   3350. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:00 AM (#5850925)
Can I grab Orlando again, Mouse? I don't think you have a strong preference of teams outside the Wolfs?
   3351. sardonic Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:30 AM (#5850959)
I'm curious what Der-K is thinking -- Atlanta is probably in the most interesting spot this year with 8, 10 and 17.

The Warriors will be ever boring, as we're capped out and against the luxury tax and yet also have a pretty strong roster, so for the nth straight year we'll likely just be going BPA with our two picks.
   3352. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5850960)
It seems like the thread needs to make an Anthony Davis trade in order to make the draft work.
   3353. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5850963)
Sagar Trika @BlazersBySagar
Woj names Utah, Indiana, and Boston *IF* Kyrie Irving leaves as teams that would be interested in trading for Mike Conley.

Things seem like they would work better if the draft took place after the beginning of free agency.
   3354. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:36 AM (#5850964)
From Rich Paul himself:
“They can trade for him, but it’ll be for one year. I mean: If the Celtics traded for Anthony Davis, we would go there and we would abide by our contractual [obligations] and we would go into free agency in 2020. I’ve stated that to them. But in the event that he decides to walk away and you give away assets? Don’t blame Rich Paul.”
   3355. sardonic Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:35 PM (#5851026)
Interesting interview with Robb Nen and Giants trainer Stan Conte on the Athletic about Nen's decision to pitch through a torn rotator cuff during the Giants' (ultimately unsuccessful) run to Game 7 of the World Series in 2002.
Nen never pitched again after a blown save in Game 6. His career was toast at age 32, despite a regular season in which he was at the peak of his powers with 43 saves and a 2.20 ERA.

Still, Nen never wavered in his decision to risk permanent injury in pursuit of San Francisco's first World Series title.

Not then. Not now.

"I still wouldn’t change anything I did," Nen said by phone Tuesday evening.

"Yeah, I knew the consequences. I knew anything could happen for sure. And I think it was one those deals where we were just in the moment.

"Do I blame Stan? No. Do I blame myself? No. I think we all made the right decision. We went out there and did what we needed to do to get ourselves to the World Series. I think we were on the same page, for sure."

Conte has been through enough of these "return to play" meetings regarding star players to suspect that everyone had some kind of voice.

"I can tell you that that there’s not a medical department in sports that wouldn't have taken this all the way to the top, probably even to ownership," Conte said.

Considering the apocalyptic risk to Durant's career, Conte said if the Warriors knew an Achilles was at stake then, "I would assume that the player made that decision to take that chance. Because, medically, I don’t think the medical department would do that."

There's some other good stuff in there -- I really think the Athletic is worth the $5/month to folks in this thread just for the NBA coverage if you can spare it.
   3356. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5851028)
I don't expect The Athletic to last, but while it's around, I cannot recommend it strongly enough.
   3357. sardonic Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5851030)
Blake Murphy's Recalibrations have been fantastic. He's the Raptors beat writer, but definitely has the best coverage of the series I've read anywhere. Like having an up-and-coming Zach Lowe covering the series.
   3358. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2019 at 01:00 PM (#5851049)
Can I grab Orlando again, Mouse? I don't think you have a strong preference of teams outside the Wolfs?


Absolutely. I was just wondering at the randomness of me getting Orlando. I will cheerfully ruin any teams draft ;)

   3359. JJ1986 Posted: June 12, 2019 at 01:14 PM (#5851059)
I was just wondering at the randomness of me getting Orlando.
I tried to give out the teams that have no fans.
   3360. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2019 at 01:15 PM (#5851062)
I tried to give out the teams that have no fans.


That makes sense. No worries, just slide me over to the next team with no fans and I will be plenty happy.

Thanks!
   3361. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 01:18 PM (#5851063)
Whoever was pretending to be the stiggles of Orlando last year obviously has to draft for Orlando. Athletic Supporter, maybe?

EDIT: I now see it is indeed Athletic Supporter who made the request. I am a dumb, as usual.
   3362. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 12, 2019 at 01:53 PM (#5851081)
I'm curious what Der-K is thinking -- Atlanta is probably in the most interesting spot this year with 8, 10 and 17.

Me too!
I agree that they're in an interesting spot. Personally, I'm not a fan of the options in this range (most of the first round really) - blech.
I've targeted one dude but otherwise, it's rough.
   3363. sardonic Posted: June 12, 2019 at 02:00 PM (#5851083)
Schlenk is obviously thinking something with the move to pick up 17 -- three picks in that 8-17 range is a lot of picks to make, I feel like there's a good chance of some wheeling and dealing to pick up assets there. No need to give up your plan before the actual (mock) draft of course, just think there's a lot of possibility there.
   3364. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 12, 2019 at 02:03 PM (#5851088)
As the GM of the Orlando Magic, will wait until teams are assigned to go in full bore, but we will be interested in trading pick 16 for a youngish point guard. 24 year old George Hill would be perfect. If you can draft the next Kawhi, even better.
   3365. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 12, 2019 at 02:13 PM (#5851089)
Life as a Pistons fan is paying back the good fortune of 3 titles in a 15 or so year span. We must be almost paid up, right?:

https://twitter.com/thebig3/status/1138868952027676672
   3366. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 02:18 PM (#5851093)
We must be almost paid up, right?:

Oh wow, another year at $5.3 million! Amazing.
   3367. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 12, 2019 at 03:08 PM (#5851115)
I just can't see giving up Tatum or Brown for a guy who is making it very clear he is going to leave in free agency after next season and sign with the Lakers.

I know the popular thought out there is that maybe he's bluffing in the hope he can still be traded to the Lakers now, and/or can be persuaded to re-sign once he sees how wonderful life with the Celtics is, but... not a risk I'd be willing to take.
   3368. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 03:12 PM (#5851117)
I just can't see giving up Tatum or Brown for a guy who is making it very clear he is going to leave in free agency after next season and sign with the Lakers.

I know the popular thought out there is that maybe he's bluffing in the hope he can still be traded to the Lakers now, and/or can be persuaded to re-sign once he sees how wonderful life with the Celtics is, but... not a risk I'd be willing to take.

Right, you do not need to be in love with Boston's young players or picks to decide this is not a risk worth taking. I'm definitely against the idea at this point.
   3369. Quaker Posted: June 12, 2019 at 03:13 PM (#5851118)
I'll do Spurs or Hawks if no one has taken them yet.
   3370. Master of the Horse Posted: June 12, 2019 at 03:16 PM (#5851119)
Wasn't Paul George supposed to sign with the Lakers and then obviously didn't? And wouldn't the Laker situation have to change in a big way for a player of any quality to choose to play on that team??
   3371. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 03:19 PM (#5851121)
Wasn't Paul George supposed to sign with the Lakers and then obviously didn't? And wouldn't the Laker situation have to change in a big way for a player of any quality to choose to play on that team??

A totally fair point (the PG part, I don't really have an opinion on the latter), but I think most people think the Davis/Klutch Sports/LeBron angle is a different beast.

Also, at the time, it was thought that OKC wasn't parting with supreme assets. Oladipo looked overpaid and Sabonis had his detractors.
   3372. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 12, 2019 at 03:23 PM (#5851126)
I don't know when our draft will be (would it largely be after the actual draft?) but I don't care what team I get. So, if Quaker wants the Hawks, that's okay with me.
   3373. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 12, 2019 at 04:03 PM (#5851173)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 7m7 minutes ago

Celtics and Lakers are engaged in trade talks with New Orleans on All-NBA star Anthony Davis, league sources tell me, @ZachLowe_NBA, @ramonashelburne and @WindhorstESPN. Lakers No. 4 pick has been discussed as trade chip to help Pels acquire high-level player in multi-team deals.

Shams Charania @ShamsCharania 5m5 minutes ago

Warriors All-Star Kevin Durant has underwent surgery to repair a ruptured Achilles tendon.


Scoop-off. KD's is from KD's instagram.
   3374. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 12, 2019 at 04:07 PM (#5851182)
So, with KD effectively guaranteed gone next year, one way or the other, that makes the WC a lot more interesting. I'm assuming the Lakers are going to go all in for the AD trade, this could be LeBron's last shot.
   3375. aberg Posted: June 12, 2019 at 04:09 PM (#5851183)
The messaging from NOP sounds like they don't want the additional pick. If they're drafting Zion as the franchise centerpiece, then wouldn't getting another rookie be the perfect complement in terms of timing? Unless they think Zion has no aging curve and will enter the league in his prime (I do not believe that), I don't see the rush to get more established guys. I guess it's possible that Griffin hates everyone outside the top 3 in the draft but that usually turns out to be pretty bad thinking.
   3376. aberg Posted: June 12, 2019 at 04:10 PM (#5851185)
So, with KD effectively guaranteed gone next year, one way or the other, that makes the WC a lot more interesting. I'm assuming the Lakers are going to go all in for the AD trade, this could be LeBron's last shot.


This is a good point. And Houston seems to be retooling, as well, though they could run it back if the Conference opens up. I still think LAL needs a better third banana than they currently have to go with Lebron and Davis.
   3377. Fridas Boss Posted: June 12, 2019 at 04:35 PM (#5851207)
Happy to take Charlotte as assigned. When we kicking it off?
   3378. sardonic Posted: June 12, 2019 at 04:53 PM (#5851219)
If the Warriors re-sign KD, Klay and Draymond to max contracts, their payroll including luxury tax will average almost $400M/year for the next four years!

Removing KD and his $40M-$50M salary + luxury tax from that equation reduces that number to $157M.

If you're just thinking between the lines there's no reason not to sign KD, but that is a sobering number. Or perhaps a signal that Draymond won't be re-signed/extended the season after.

Warriors offseason decisions from ESPN
   3379. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 12, 2019 at 04:54 PM (#5851220)
Schlenk is obviously thinking something with the move to pick up 17 -- three picks in that 8-17 range is a lot of picks to make, I feel like there's a good chance of some wheeling and dealing to pick up assets there. No need to give up your plan before the actual (mock) draft of course, just think there's a lot of possibility there.

getting #17 from BRK was just good value. it's the kind of trade ATL could make because they're not trying to make the playoffs this year, or use their cap room to sign a major free agent this summer.
The messaging from NOP sounds like they don't want the additional pick. If they're drafting Zion as the franchise centerpiece, then wouldn't getting another rookie be the perfect complement in terms of timing? Unless they think Zion has no aging curve and will enter the league in his prime (I do not believe that), I don't see the rush to get more established guys. I guess it's possible that Griffin hates everyone outside the top 3 in the draft but that usually turns out to be pretty bad thinking.

it's a weak draft. there's very little difference between the 5th best prospect, the 15th best prospect and the 45th best prospect, relative to a more normal distribution of draft prospects.
Right, you do not need to be in love with Boston's young players or picks to decide this is not a risk worth taking. I'm definitely against the idea at this point.

that depends on what goes along with those young players. if BOS can use tatum and a few picks to dump hakgmarsd ("one all-star, one young player with all star upside and at least one first round pick"), even if davis leaves after a year, BOS is probably not that much worse off.

even if AD leaves, BOS would have two max contract slots to replace him (and horford) that summer. rozier/smart/brown/horford/davis would be pretty solid defensive unit, and if they could add a shooter on top of it, plus some other rotation depth, it's not a bad option, imo.
   3380. GregD Posted: June 12, 2019 at 05:05 PM (#5851226)
If the Warriors re-sign KD, Klay and Draymond to max contracts, their payroll including luxury tax will average almost $400M/year for the next four years!

Removing KD and his $40M-$50M salary + luxury tax from that equation reduces that number to $157M.

If you're just thinking between the lines there's no reason not to sign KD, but that is a sobering number. Or perhaps a signal that Draymond won't be re-signed/extended the season after.
holy crap!

My own guess is that they are not going to push hard for Draymond (though what they'd do in his absence is a mystery)
   3381. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 12, 2019 at 06:01 PM (#5851231)
Davis/Lakers: The Lakers have a lot of problems, but as I have been saying to James Haters inside the fanbase, the perception/experience of NBA stars of the Lakers' "situation" is probably a lot different than that of, say, a random Milwaukee Bucks fan who hangs out on the net a lot, or that of a random Kobe Fan on a Lakers site. Davis's perception appears to be that he will be playing in LA with a great brand, playing with his friend and mentor the great LeBron James, that they can pick up some roster help, and that Davis's career will still be "rolling" as Rich Paul says, even when James retires. At least, this appears to be how Davis sees it, based on what is being leaked, and what has now been directly stated, by his agent. Davis may not end up here, and it may not work out that great if he does, but I think it is obvious at this point that he wants to be here so he can play in LA with James.

Davis/Celtics: Ainge being Ainge, I could see him pulling the trigger on it anyway, for a variety of obvious reasons. I have never been sold on the idea that Bradley, Crowder, Olynyk, Brown, Rozier, Tatum, Smart, and Yabusele were and are a special group of guys, and I felt and feel the same way about Clarkson, Nance Jr, Russell, Randle, Zubac, T Bryant, Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, and Hart, although I wish the Lakers still had a couple of the ones they got rid of. So gambling on Davis would be a pretty Aingeian move. That said, Tatum et al do have some real value, and trading young guys the fans mostly like for a guy whose agent just stated in public that the guy wants to play for the Lakers and will bail would be kind of awkward.
   3382. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 12, 2019 at 06:03 PM (#5851233)
Golden State/cap/tax: Supposedly the new arena will be a Silicon Valley-driven money-printing machine, so that does not need to be an issue for them unless Lacob wants to make it one.
   3383. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 12, 2019 at 06:15 PM (#5851237)

The Lakers have made Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball and the No. 4 pick in the June 20 draft available in trade talks with the Pelicans, league sources say. New Orleans has made it known it hope to assemble a three-teams-or-more deal before surrendering Anthony Davis


Marc Stein

@TheSteinLine
The Lakers' ability to seal a deal for Anthony Davis likely hinges on what the No. 4 pick can fetch. If the No. 4 pick can land a player to excite New Orleans, on top of Ingram and Ball, then the teams are headed for an agreement in principle before draft night next Thursday

1,931
1:40 PM - Jun 12, 2019
   3384. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 12, 2019 at 06:23 PM (#5851239)
I mean, I'd be trying to find a sucker to give up a good player for Ball and the #4, too.
   3385. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 12, 2019 at 06:25 PM (#5851241)
3384

Spec on that is Bradley Beal. Also, in spite of his weirdness and flaws, Ball is not as shitty as you seem to think he is, and he is still 21. For a team starting over, pairing him with Darius Garland, who supposedly will be there at 4, and giving them a long development leash would make some sense.

The big issues with Ball for me are the abysmal FT shooting and the injury flags.
   3386. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 12, 2019 at 06:37 PM (#5851245)
There's plenty of talk in Chicago of the Bulls trying to jam themselves into an AD 3 way, with the intent of getting Ball out of it. There's a lot of similarities between him and Dunn, but Ball still is better at the passing part of PG and has more potential. If the Bulls can get Ball with the 7 pick/whatever other roster filler, they have to do it. I'm sure the Lakers would value Ball higher than just that, and if the Pels really aren't crazy about #4, not sure how #7 really sweetens the pot.
   3387. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 12, 2019 at 06:56 PM (#5851249)
I don't think Ball is shitty. I just don't think he has the toolset to be an impact player in the modern NBA. He has Ben Simmons' flaws without the supreme athleticism that is pretty much required to start for a good NBA team with those flaws. That's before considering his apparent fragility. He might still grow up to be Ricky Rubio, but I wouldn't want to bet on it and it doesn't seem like NBA GMs are lining up to, either (and of course his narcissist father doesn't help encourage you to roll the dice on him).
   3388. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: June 12, 2019 at 07:05 PM (#5851252)
If I were the Pela I think I’d like the #7 more than Ball.
   3389. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 12, 2019 at 07:16 PM (#5851253)
Ball took 228 3s last year, and nosed his % up to .329. Simmons took 6, and missed all of them. Ball also improved his finishing--long one of Ricky Rubio's biggest problems--from .494 to .596. As to his dad, FWIW, Ball announced that he is no longer wearing BBBs, fired a guy who was an associate of his dad's who Ball says slimed him on some money, and had a kid and also talked about "managing his own career now" etc. His DBPMs have been strongly in the plus column both years he has been in the league.

Lakers fans overvalue him, but he is a reasonable piece to include in a trade like one for Davis, in spite of his problems.

   3390. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 12, 2019 at 08:25 PM (#5851258)
I don't think Ball is shitty. I just don't think he has the toolset to be an impact player in the modern NBA. He has Ben Simmons' flaws without the supreme athleticism that is pretty much required to start for a good NBA team with those flaws. That's before considering his apparent fragility. He might still grow up to be Ricky Rubio, but I wouldn't want to bet on it and it doesn't seem like NBA GMs are lining up to, either (and of course his narcissist father doesn't help encourage you to roll the dice on him).

just want to point out:
over the last 6 months, as LA's entire sewer system has been dredged to the surface, lavar ball hasn't been touched by any of it.


also, LAL was 25-22 with lonzo ball this year and just 12-23 without him. maybe that had more to do with lebron than lonzo, but the lakers were only 28-27 with lebron in the lineup this year; and last year, LAL was 24-28 with lonzo and 11-19 without him.

obviously, that's not conclusive, but it does indicate that lonzo's defense and playmaking have already made him an impact player.

still, fragility is an issue for him, and so is 3P shooting, and FT shooting, and finishing at the rim, but i think some of those things should improve naturally as he gets more NBA experience.
   3391. JJ1986 Posted: June 12, 2019 at 08:35 PM (#5851259)
Would Washington really make a major trade without a GM?
   3392. JJ1986 Posted: June 12, 2019 at 08:35 PM (#5851260)
I still like Ball's skills, but I'd be majorly concerned about his injury history at this point.
   3393. GregD Posted: June 12, 2019 at 09:07 PM (#5851268)
Golden State/cap/tax: Supposedly the new arena will be a Silicon Valley-driven money-printing machine, so that does not need to be an issue for them unless Lacob wants to make it one.
i get it but still $240 million a year is some major dough. if i read the comment right Durant's contract with all the tax penalties would add almost $1 billion in expenses over 4 years. the arena's not bringing in an extra 1/4 billion a year
   3394. tshipman Posted: June 12, 2019 at 09:44 PM (#5851274)
He has Ben Simmons' flaws without the supreme athleticism that is pretty much required to start for a good NBA team with those flaws.


I don't think that's true.

Simmons is unwilling to shoot. Lonzo is not a good shooter. Those are different things. Simmons is a great on-ball defender and a bad helper. Lonzo is a great help defender and average on ball.

The "problem" with Simmons is that he doesn't really mesh with Embiid and Brown hasn't figured out a system that maximizes both of them.
   3395. sardonic Posted: June 12, 2019 at 09:53 PM (#5851275)
i get it but still $240 million a year is some major dough. if i read the comment right Durant's contract with all the tax penalties would add almost $1 billion in expenses over 4 years. the arena's not bringing in an extra 1/4 billion a year


You read it right. I feel good about the fact that I can at least expect/hope that Lacob/Warriors ownership would cut the check to put the best product possible on the court -- I think there are plenty of owners who wouldn't even think of it.
   3396. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:31 PM (#5851282)
Simmons is a great on-ball defender and a bad helper. Lonzo is a great help defender and average on ball

the one about simmons is not at all true.
i suspect the one about ball is similarly inaccurate, but i haven't watched him play enough to confidently address it.
The "problem" with Simmons is that he doesn't really mesh with Embiid and Brown hasn't figured out a system that maximizes both of them.

i'd like to disagree, but...nah. brown has barely even tried to optimize the sixers playing style relative to their personnel.
   3397. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:32 PM (#5851283)
Would Washington really make a major trade without a GM?
that's a normal process. move on, find a new slant.
   3398. tshipman Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:16 PM (#5851287)
the one about simmons is not at all true.


This is a pretty good overview of Simmons.

Ben Taylor calls him out as having kind of a low motor on defense at times, which matches my observation of his game in the playoffs. Stout when he's engaged, particularly on ball, but not the kind of off-ball defender that you have to be in order to have a huge impact.
   3399. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:24 PM (#5851288)
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic
32. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic

Open for business! No player or pick is untouchable. (Not that anyone else wants them.)
   3400. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 13, 2019 at 12:00 AM (#5851292)
flop.
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