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Tuesday, April 16, 2019

OT - NBA thread (Playoffs through off-season)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and this one only cares about the NBA thread and the Cubs so I have no idea what the rest of the website cares about.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 16, 2019 at 02:18 PM | 6241 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   3701. stevegamer Posted: June 15, 2019 at 12:22 AM (#5852204)
Guys, I really, really shouldn't have the Celtics. There has to be somebody here who is a Celtics fan, while I've been disliking them or worse since the 1970's.

If there's nobody else, I will do it, but it'd be better to give me a team with just a second rounder or something.


   3702. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 15, 2019 at 12:35 AM (#5852207)
@stevegamer I think Dallas is open. (You were DAL a couple years ago, right?) Our commish said you can just switch out whenever if you don't want a team.

JJ1986 Posted: June 14, 2019 at 02:31 PM (#5852020)
Here's the draft list as I have it now. I think I got everyone who asked for a team. Again, anyone who doesn't like their assignment can trade.

...

31. Brooklyn – mike f
32. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic
33. Philadelphia- 57i66135
34. Philadelphia- 57i66135
35. Atlanta - Der-K
36. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
37. Dallas
   3703. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 15, 2019 at 02:14 AM (#5852210)

1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball
3. New York – JC and NJ
4. Los Angeles Lakers - Hombre/rr
5. Cleveland - Harlond
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic
7. Chicago - Moses
8. Atlanta - Der-K
9. Washington – Dandy Little Glove Man
10. Atlanta - Der-K
11. Minnesota - aberg
12. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
13. Miami – Mouse
14. Boston – stevegamer
15. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
16. Orlando – Athletic Supporter
17. Atlanta - Der-K
18. Indiana – JJ1986
19. San Antonio – Quaker
20. Boston – stevegamer
21. Oklahoma City – Thok
22. Boston – stevegamer
23. Utah - Booey/Cervo
24. Philadelphia- 57i66135
25. Portland – PASTE
26. Cleveland - Harlond
27. Brooklyn – mike f
28. Golden State - sardonic
29. San Antonio – Quaker
30. Milwaukee – Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw

31. Brooklyn – mike f
32. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic
33. Philadelphia- 57i66135
34. Philadelphia- 57i66135
35. Atlanta - Der-K
36. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
37. Dallas
38. Chicago - Moses
39. New Orleans – sardonic
40. Sacramento - smileyy
41. Atlanta - Der-K
42. Philadelphia- 57i66135
43. Minnesota - aberg
44. Atlanta- Der-K
45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
46. Orlando – Athletic Supporter
47. Sacramento - smileyy
48. LA Clippers
49. San Antonio – Quaker
50. Indiana – JJ1986
51. Boston – stevegamer
52. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135
55. New York – JC and NJ
56. LA Clippers
57. New Orleans – sardonic
58. Golden State - sardonic
59. Toronto
60. Sacramento - smileyy
   3704. stevegamer Posted: June 15, 2019 at 03:55 AM (#5852213)
Dallas works, please swap me on the list. As a 76ers fan, I just can't be the Celtics. As a guy who really disliked Ainge as a Blue Jay, that goes double.

I've been Cleveland, and somebody else with cap issues for sure. The Mavericks are kind of easy.

   3705. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 15, 2019 at 05:16 AM (#5852216)
Updated First Round (teams not listed have same assignments as shown above):

1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball - ON THE CLOCK
3. New York – JC and NJ
4. Los Angeles Lakers - Hombre/rr
5. Cleveland - Harlond
...
14. Boston – ???
...
20. Boston – ???
...
22. Boston – ???

   3706. Thok Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:22 AM (#5852221)
As the fake OKC GM, I'm seriously tempted to try to make the following offer to New Orleans work (NBA trade machine says the salaries work).

OKC gets: Jrue Holiday, Anthony Davis
New Orleans gets: Russell Westbrook, Andre Roberson, OKC 2019 1st, OKC 2021 1st, OKC 2023 1st.

That said, I think this requires OKC to buy back their partially protected 2020 1st from Philly and their partially protected 2022 1st from Atlanta, and I'm not sure what those GM's would want for that buyback.
   3707. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 15, 2019 at 10:48 AM (#5852228)
(me watching an NBA draft video, one third of the way through)
“This guy could be an all-star!”
(me watching an NBA draft video, two thirds of the way through)
“This guy might not finish his rookie contract!”

Mike Schmitz knows how to manipulate me emotionally in ways ace filmmakers simply can’t do.
   3708. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 15, 2019 at 10:50 AM (#5852230)
Thok, if that deal goes somewhere, we will work with you.
   3709. sardonic Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5852235)
@orioletragic

Done deal! New Orleans sends Jahlil Okafor and #39 for #32 overall.
   3710. sardonic Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5852236)
@Thok Not interested in Westbrook and three late firsts isn't enough to swing it for me. If there's a third team that wants to give up assets for Russell but not AD and/or Jrue alone, make yourselves known!
   3711. sardonic Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:38 AM (#5852238)
Obviously I was going to cut Jah to open up more cap space anyway, as I expect the actual Pellies to do after burying him on the bench. For next year, I'm trying to open up close to $40M of cap space to pick up a couple more assets, potentially even after the season starts.
   3712. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:59 AM (#5852243)
2019 playoffs, top 10 net +/-:
Net
Rk                  Player  Tm    MP  PTS
1               Kyle Lowry TOR 900.0 
+161
2            Kawhi Leonard TOR 940.3 
+156
3              Joel Embiid PHI 334.8 
+143
4           Draymond Green GSW 863.4 
+127
5            Stephen Curry GSW 858.3 
+120
6    Giannis Antetokounmpo MIL 514.4 
+111
7              Danny Green TOR 684.3 
+109
8          Khris Middleton MIL 515.6 
+107
9             Jimmy Butler PHI 421.0  
+98
10             Brook Lopez MIL 438.8  
+98 

and per 100 possessions:
Net
Rk                  Player  Tm    MP   PTS
1              Joel Embiid PHI 334.8 
+20.4
2             Kevon Looney GSW 420.7 
+12.4
3              Brook Lopez MIL 438.8 
+10.9
4             Jimmy Butler PHI 421.0 
+10.8
5              George Hill MIL 394.7 
+10.5
6          Khris Middleton MIL 515.6 
+10.2
7             Eric Bledsoe MIL 423.5 
+10.0
8    Giannis Antetokounmpo MIL 514.4  
+9.9
9              Serge Ibaka TOR 501.2  
+8.8
10           Kawhi Leonard TOR 940.3  
+8.7 

   3713. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 15, 2019 at 12:22 PM (#5852245)
and the bottom 10:

net +/-
Rk             Player  Tm    MP PTS
1       Mason Plumlee DEN 218.6 
-75
2         Will Barton DEN 328.4 
-58
3    Shaun Livingston GSW 310.3 
-46
4        Jaylen Brown BOS 273.8 
-44
5    Danilo Gallinari LAC 201.5 
-43
6    Maurice Harkless POR 387.8 
-35
7        Monte Morris DEN 224.7 
-33
8       DeMar DeRozan SAS 250.4 
-33
9        Zach Collins POR 275.5 
-23
10    Al
-Farouq Aminu POR 399.1 -20 

net +/- per 100 possessions:
Rk              Player  Tm    MP   PTS
1        Mason Plumlee DEN 218.6 
-15.5
2     Danilo Gallinari LAC 201.5 
-10.5
3         Jaylen Brown BOS 273.8  
-8.8
4        DeMar DeRozan SAS 250.4  
-8.7
5          Will Barton DEN 328.4  
-8.6
6         Monte Morris DEN 224.7  
-7.2
7     Shaun Livingston GSW 310.3  
-5.5
8       Gordon Hayward BOS 267.1  
-4.6
9    LaMarcus Aldridge SAS 244.3  
-3.9
10         Bryn Forbes SAS 212.3  
-3.8 

   3714. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 15, 2019 at 12:24 PM (#5852246)
and i just noticed this:
Kawhi Leonard TOR 940.3 +8.7
DeMar DeRozan SAS 250.4 -8.7

Kawhi Leonard TOR 940.3 +156
DeMar DeRozan SAS 250.4 -33

   3715. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 15, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5852247)
this also just came to mind:
Joel Embiid PHI 334.8 +20.4
Jabari Parker PTSUKN DNP DNP
Andrew Wiggins MIN DNP DNP
   3716. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 15, 2019 at 01:17 PM (#5852250)

@MEM/Willard Baseball you are on the clock.

1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball - ON THE CLOCK
3. New York – JC and NJ
4. Los Angeles Lakers - Hombre/rr
5. Cleveland - Harlond
...
31. Brooklyn – mike f
32. Phoenix – sardonic
33. Philadelphia- 57i66135
34. Philadelphia- 57i66135
35. Atlanta - Der-K
36. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
37. Dallas
38. Chicago - Moses
39. New Orleans – Oriole Tragic
...

Transactions:
NOP #32
PHO #39, Jahlil Okafor
   3717. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 15, 2019 at 02:14 PM (#5852255)

Lakers Open As 2019-20 NBA Title Favorites In Vegas Sportsbooks

They know something we don't about upcoming FA movement, I guess?
   3718. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 15, 2019 at 02:30 PM (#5852259)
They know something we don't about upcoming FA movement delusional Lakers fans, I guess?


FTFY
   3719. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 15, 2019 at 03:00 PM (#5852262)
Sardonic/Stiggles, would you do this?

Orlando gets: PG Jrue Holiday (2/52 + 1/27 p-opt) from NOP

New Orleans gets: #16 (from ORL), #24 (from PHI), #41 (from PHI), Orlando 2021 1st (top 10-protected, else top 4-protected in 2022, else unprotected in 2023), C Timofey Mozgov (1/17) from ORL

Philadelphia gets: SG Evan Fournier (2/34 + 1/17 p-opt) from ORL

That's 1 near lottery pick, another first rounder with upside, and a couple other picks for Jrue and taking on Mozgov's 1-year contract (saving a net $9M this year). Philly gets Fournier for #24 and #41. What do you guys think?
   3720. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2019 at 03:07 PM (#5852263)
Pretty sure "Don't Google" Fournier is a negative value contract.
   3721. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 15, 2019 at 03:12 PM (#5852265)
Some other point guard feelers, anyone interested in trading a point guard better or younger than DJ Augustin, let me know.

Knicks: DSJ (as I mentioned before), how do you value him?
Pistons: How badly do you want to get rid of Reggie Jackson's contract? (Like, it clearly has negative value, but how much to you?)
Nets: Are you interested in trading Dinwiddie (I assume Kyrie is coming)?
Boston: Planning to jettison proven clubhouse cancer Terry Rozier?
Sacto: Want something really tiny for Frank Mason's unguaranteed contract?


It's outside the scope of this exercise, but we will also be making a modest offer to RFA Delon Wright.

Pretty sure "Don't Google" Fournier is a negative value contract.


He had an off shooting year last year, but he is a career 37% shooter from three, can create his own shot a bit, and has been a big positive on defense (via on/off) 3 of the last 4 years. He'll turn 27 this October. Is he worse than Tobias Harris, who will get a lot more than 2/34?
   3722. puck Posted: June 15, 2019 at 03:49 PM (#5852266)
and the bottom 10:

net +/-
Rk Player Tm MP PTS
1 Mason Plumlee DEN 218.6 -75
2 Will Barton DEN 328.4 -58
3 Shaun Livingston GSW 310.3 -46
4 Jaylen Brown BOS 273.8 -44
5 Danilo Gallinari LAC 201.5 -43
6 Maurice Harkless POR 387.8 -35
7 Monte Morris DEN 224.7 -33
8 DeMar DeRozan SAS 250.4 -33
9 Zach Collins POR 275.5 -23
10 Al-Farouq Aminu POR 399.1 -20


Oh that Nuggets 2nd unit. Sigh. Will Morris and Beasley do better next time around? Morris went 0-13 on 3's in the playoffs after making nice contributions (41.4%) off the bench during the regular season.
   3723. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 15, 2019 at 04:27 PM (#5852273)
That's 1 near lottery pick, another first rounder with upside, and a couple other picks for Jrue and taking on Mozgov's 1-year contract (saving a net $9M this year). Philly gets Fournier for #24 and #41. What do you guys think?

i have 3 thoughts:

1: PHI doesn't have pick #41. i believe we have #24, #33, #34, #42 and #54 (hinkie lives)
2: i'd like to dump jonathan simmons' 1MM guarantee somewhere in here.
3: if i'm giving up two picks, 17MM in cap space, and renouncing bird rights on redick, boban, scott and (butler or tobias harris), i need another player coming back. wesley iwundu would be a good fit.

basically, i'd need something like this:

NOP: #16, #24 (from PHI), #42 (from PHI), ORL 2021 #1 (w/ protections as in [3719], mozgov
ORL: jruth (from NOP), jonathan simmons (1MM guarantee if he's waived; from PHI)
PHI: fournier, iwundu


(i think i have all of that right)
   3724. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 15, 2019 at 05:49 PM (#5852287)
@3723 if that doesn't work out, I'll take Simmons for Jackson, straight up nvm, my proposal was disallowed by Trade Machine.
   3725. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 15, 2019 at 05:52 PM (#5852289)
Stiggles, I'd like to keep Iwundu. Can I interest you in a Melvin Frazier instead (1 more year of team control at that)? I am happy to absorb Simmons' 1MM.

Sardonic, thoughts?
   3726. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 15, 2019 at 06:35 PM (#5852298)
Ball, Ingram, Hart and three 1sts, including the #4 this year for AD.

ETA as reported by ESPN
   3727. CFBF's Overflowing Pathos Posted: June 15, 2019 at 06:37 PM (#5852300)
Just to provide the color to TFTIO's post, from Woj:

The Pelicans have agreed to a deal to trade Anthony Davis to the Lakers for Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart, and three first-round picks – including the No. 4 overall in 2019 Draft, league sources tell ESPN.
   3728. JC in DC Posted: June 15, 2019 at 06:50 PM (#5852301)
It's a good week for Kawhi.
   3729. JC in DC Posted: June 15, 2019 at 06:53 PM (#5852303)
And, I think Griffin did pretty well. I know some people are down on Lonzo, but I like him. Ingram, Lonzo, and Hart are nice pieces. The #4 pick isn't shabby, and adding two more firsts is pretty solid. Maybe it's a pu pu platter, but I think that's not a bad return.
   3730. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 15, 2019 at 06:55 PM (#5852304)
I like the deal/think it makes sense for both sides especially given reports BOS was unwilling to put Tatum in the deal.
   3731. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:00 PM (#5852305)
So like I thought, the deal got worse in the offseason for New Orleans. New Orleans now doesn't get additional pieces like Kuzma or Zubac.
   3732. smileyy Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:00 PM (#5852306)
I'm really happy about AD to the Lakers.
   3733. CFBF's Overflowing Pathos Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:05 PM (#5852307)
Was this offer available to New Orleans during the season? Did they want to wait to see where the draft pick would shake out? Or was New Orleans just not willing to make a deal with Magic?
   3734. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM (#5852308)
Was this offer available to New Orleans during the season? Did they want to wait to see where the draft pick would shake out? Or was New Orleans just not willing to make a deal with Magic?


Fairly consistently reported:


The Los Angeles Times' Broderick Turner reported Tuesday the Lakers had put Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart, Ivica Zubac, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and a pair of first-round draft picks on the table.


Notably, New Orleans leaked the offers.
   3735. aberg Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:19 PM (#5852310)
4 pick guaranteed is obviously better than ev of a lotto pick where la was (and would get with Davis). No way to know if kuzma would've been included if the 4 pick was a certainty.

I'd love to hear from hombre and rr on where they'd like to see the Lakers go from here.

   3736. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:27 PM (#5852312)
One of those picks will have to be post-LeBron, right?
   3737. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:32 PM (#5852313)
Marc Stein

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Kemba Walker will be a top target in free agency for the Lakers after they reached an agreement in principle to trade for Anthony Davis, according to league sources

   3738. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:33 PM (#5852314)

@sardonic are you entertaining offers for Ball or Ingram?
   3739. aberg Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:36 PM (#5852315)
I see the appeal in getting kemba and it takes the player evaluation out of it, but with the number of holes they have and the diminishing returns on having a ball dominant lead guard next to LeBron, I'm not sure that would be the avenue I'd go.
   3740. PJ Martinez Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:51 PM (#5852316)
I think I like that trade for both teams.
   3741. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:53 PM (#5852317)
I'd love to hear from hombre and rr on where they'd like to see the Lakers go from here.


I think you are probably the only one, since everybody else is waiting for Moses and Der-K to explain, but OK.

NO first:

They now have Williamson, Holiday, Ball, Ingram, Hart, and the #4. If I were them, I would consider shopping Holiday, drafting Garland, adding a couple of cheap vets to stabilize/mentor, and going full youth movement. I do not know how it will work out, but it is a pretty good place to be, considering that you pretty much never get value for a guy like Davis. The key, ofc, is that they have the #1, so they may get their next cornerstone guy immediately. There is a large, yappy contingent in the Lakers fanbase that will like the Pelicans more than the Lakers, especially if they keep Randle.

Lakers:

As a fan, I am comfortable with all of it except the three picks (would have been OK with two), but I can see why Pelinka would not want to hold it up. The key for the Lakers is this:

Bobby Marks

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1h1 hour ago
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The Lakers will have either $27.8M in room or $32.5M in room after this deal. All depends on the timing and if Davis waives his $4M trade bonus.

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Bobby Marks

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The Anthony Davis trade with Los Angeles cannot be completed until July 6. The question now comes down to how LAL times the trade. LAL can use cap space as a buffer first or wait 30 days and have the salaries match up. Waiting would preserve cap flexibility to use $32.5M in room.


So, by doing it this way and now, they have enough space to get some real help for James and Davis. If the Irving-BKN stuff is real, then D'Angelo Russell would, weirdly, actually make sense for the Lakers. Have no idea if that would get off the ground. The main thing is to add a backcourt player who can score, IMO. After that, role players who can space the floor--Bullock and Muscala would make sense on a James/Davis team. Given that the best team Davis was on in New Orleans had Rondo on it, I expect he will be back.
   3742. aberg Posted: June 15, 2019 at 07:59 PM (#5852318)
I had the same thought about DLo, which would be very funny. I'm sure JR Smith will get to LA at some point too.
   3743. jmurph Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:00 PM (#5852319)
So like I thought, the deal got worse in the offseason for New Orleans. New Orleans now doesn't get additional pieces like Kuzma or Zubac.

They got an additional first and a potential swap, so I guess it just goes to how they value those things vs those other players.
   3744. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:03 PM (#5852321)
I had the same thought about DLo, which would be very funny.


Yes, it would, but if you look at his age, skillset, and likely salary level, it is a pretty good fit. And while he could play with Kyrie Irving, that would not be an optimal fit for Brooklyn IMO.
   3745. jmurph Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:03 PM (#5852322)
It’s against my own interests obviously, but LeBron and Davis should be a lot of fun to watch.
   3746. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:07 PM (#5852324)
They got an additional first and a potential swap, so I guess it just goes to how they value those things vs those other players.


In part, but it is also the calendar, and the switches from Demps and Magic to Griffin and Pelinka.

I predicted--incorrectly ofc--that Davis would end up on a team like Denver or Portland. With Durant and Thompson injured as they are, I think that those teams should have gotten in on this, and I think it is likely that the unfortunate injuries to the GS stars made Pelinka a little more willing to trigger.
   3747. Willard Baseball Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:07 PM (#5852325)
Memphis selects Ja Morant
   3748. King Mekong Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:08 PM (#5852326)
My plan 1a for the Lakers would be jimmy butler
1b Khris Middleton. Either of those scenarios I’d go for pat Beverly ont the full mle. If I can’t get them or kawhi I think I’d go for Danny green and more of a bench.
   3749. PJ Martinez Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:08 PM (#5852327)
What's the latest on Ingram's health?
   3750. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:08 PM (#5852328)
The protections on the picks aren't known yet, right? And what are these pick swaps?

Anyway, since I was asked but now things have moved on, Pistons aren't giving up future stuff to dump Reggie Jackson just for the sake of dumping him. Even if they moved him and took 0 salary back, they are only $15 or so below the cap with 0 point guards on the roster.

I guess it could make sense to do something like that if they could line up a better PG option at that price, but I doubt a better option is willing to go to Detroit for $15M. Just one more year of Jackson and he got better as the year went on.
   3751. Willard Baseball Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:09 PM (#5852330)
Memphis will now build around Ja, JJJ and Kyle Anderson. We are in big-time rebuild mode.

We will just let Chandler Parsons deal play out this year.

Make your offers for Mike Conley....very underrated guard, wide open NBA title chances...he can put you over the top!
   3752. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:15 PM (#5852332)
players who weren't massive disappointments (yet) in BOLD

Rose wasn't a massive disappointment. The injuries were, but that's different than the rest of those bums.
   3753. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:16 PM (#5852333)
Updated for LAL/NO deal:

1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball - Ja Morant, G, Murray State
3. New York – JC and NJ ON THE CLOCK
4. Los Angeles Lakers - sardonic
5. Cleveland - Harlond
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic
7. Chicago - Moses
8. Atlanta - Der-K
9. Washington – Dandy Little Glove Man
10. Atlanta - Der-K
11. Minnesota - aberg
12. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
13. Miami – Mouse
14. Boston – stevegamer
15. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
16. Orlando – Athletic Supporter
17. Atlanta - Der-K
18. Indiana – JJ1986
19. San Antonio – Quaker
20. Boston – stevegamer
21. Oklahoma City – Thok
22. Boston – stevegamer
23. Utah - Booey/Cervo
24. Philadelphia- 57i66135
25. Portland – PASTE
26. Cleveland - Harlond
27. Brooklyn – mike f
28. Golden State - sardonic
29. San Antonio – Quaker
30. Milwaukee – Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw

Transactions:
NOP #32
PHO #39, Jahlil Okafor

NOP #4, Ingram, Ball, Hart, future 1sts
LAL Anthony Davis
   3754. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:20 PM (#5852334)
Oh, and the AD trade might be one of those win/win deals when we look back. If the get kemba too, that's a good to great team.
   3755. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:23 PM (#5852335)
If I trusted Pelinka to make intelligent moves, I'd like him to fill out the roster and get some depth with a focus on defense and 3 point shooting. Pat Beverley is a guy I would love in that scenario. However, I don't trust Pelinka so, as a LeBron fan, I just hope he gets the order of operations right so the Lakers can sign a big money guy and hope they're able to overwhelm with talent. Either way, with a starting point of LeBron and Davis I think they are the current WC favorites (lots of other moves to go).
   3756. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:40 PM (#5852338)
They got an additional first and a potential swap, so I guess it just goes to how they value those things vs those other players.


And this year's 1st ended up being 4th overall, which did not look likely (and probably doesn't happen?) if they traded AD to Lakers at the deadline.

This looks fair for both teams. I don't think Pelicans are likely to get any all stars out of the trade, but got some good assets. Between Lebron's age, AD's health, and Lakers' FO problems, there's at least some risk this doesn't work out for the Lakers, though I'm not counting on that.
   3757. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:46 PM (#5852340)
I see the appeal in getting kemba and it takes the player evaluation out of it, but with the number of holes they have and the diminishing returns on having a ball dominant lead guard next to LeBron, I'm not sure that would be the avenue I'd go.



I see what you are saying, but as we all know, James' title teams all actually had that kind of guy: Wade in Miami, and Irving in Cleveland. I think at 35, James will want a 3rd guy who can initiate the O and score on his own. The guy does not have to be as good as Wade and Irving, since Davis will be, actually, the best player James has ever played with. But I think the Lakers will want that kind of guy and Walker is exactly that--that type of guy, and good, but not as good. Also, Walker, unlike all the other big FAs, does not really make much sense for his current team anymore.

But the problem as you suggest is that Walker would pretty much take up all the money...which is one reason why I thought of Russell.
   3758. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:53 PM (#5852341)
Anyone have Kemba's catch and shoot numbers handy?
   3759. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 15, 2019 at 08:54 PM (#5852343)
From The RiiiiIIIIIIiiiinger:
Loser: The Boston Celtics
...
For years, we’ve been hearing about how nobody had a better war chest than Ainge. But what did it get him?
I suspect that this take will be significantly weakened if Kyrie stays with the C's.
   3760. Tin Angel Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:01 PM (#5852350)
Either way, with a starting point of LeBron and Davis I think they are the current WC favorites (lots of other moves to go).


Been seeing this a lot and I just don't get it. LeBron, AD, Kuzma, and maybe Kemba Walker...I realize it depends on how they fill out the roster but even with those main pieces I don't see them as being any better than Houston or Denver, or even Utah and Portland.
   3761. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:11 PM (#5852356)
That’s a super thin lineup, and I would be worried with Davis’ health history and LeBron’s creeping senescence.
   3762. jmurph Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:13 PM (#5852359)
Guys, LeBron/Davis/Kemba would be a RIDICULOUS top 3. I think you’re overthinking it.
   3763. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:19 PM (#5852367)
Good trade for both teams
Carries risk for the lakers but I can see kemba going there and that’s an outstanding team in the short term
   3764. PJ Martinez Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:20 PM (#5852368)
I suspect that this take will be significantly weakened if Kyrie stays with the C's.
Counter-argument: if Kyrie stays, people will be more perplexed that Ainge reportedly kept Tatum out of the deal.

The consensus at the moment appears to be that with Davis insisting he was going to L.A. when he became a free agent, and with Kyrie evidently on his way to Brooklyn, it didn't make sense for Boston to deal their best young players and picks for a rental. Which may be debatable but makes some sense. If Kyrie stays, though, it becomes even more fair to wonder why Ainge didn't roll the dice at a possible 2020 title with Davis and Irving and whoever was left after the deal.
   3765. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:22 PM (#5852369)
The Lakers are not WC favorites right now, since the rest of the roster is Kyle Kuzma, Moe Wagner and Isaac Bonga. And no, Davis doesn't play 82 games a year and yes, James will be 35. But:

1. No one else has two guys better than James and Davis, since Durant is hurt.
2. I think some people still don't get how good Davis is, just like some people didn't get how good Kevin Garnett was 15 years ago. And Davis is 26, not 30.
3. The Lakers will have enough money to fill out the rest of the rotation, and will have options for doing so, and it seems reasonable to assume that the James/Davis combo and the LA market will be a draw for some guys. Once you have two guys like James and Davis, it becomes harder to mess up the rest--even with a shaky FO.

Tom Cervo is right--it is possible it might not work out, the biggest reason being James's age. But I think it is also quite possible that the Lakers do look like WC favorites by the end of July.
   3766. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:23 PM (#5852370)
So like I thought, the deal got worse in the offseason for New Orleans. New Orleans now doesn't get additional pieces like Kuzma or Zubac.
are you insage?

NOP got ball AND ingram AND #4 overall, plus hart and two additional #1 picks. it's a hell of a lot better than LAL's offer at the deadline.

FWIW, i'm not a big fan of this deal for LAL. i get it...especially after how things turned out with paul george and russell westbrook and dangelo russell, but i think they should have held back a bit knowing that they had the in on AD next summer.
They now have Williamson, Holiday, Ball, Ingram, Hart, and the #4. If I were them, I would consider shopping Holiday, drafting Garland, adding a couple of cheap vets to stabilize/mentor, and going full youth movement. I do not know how it will work out, but it is a pretty good place to be, considering that you pretty much never get value for a guy like Davis. The key, ofc, is that they have the #1, so they may get their next cornerstone guy immediately. There is a large, yappy contingent in the Lakers fanbase that will like the Pelicans more than the Lakers, especially if they keep Randle.

i had the opposite reaction to this.

i think holiday, zion, ball and ingram is a core that's 80+% ready to compete. that's a great perimeter defense, with a ton of length, plus multiple ballhandlers/decision makers.

they still need:
-- a high volume scorer (preferably a wing/forward; valanciunas? vucevic? wiggins? griffin? gallinari? harris?)
-- a center who can defend (nerlens noel would be a great fit; maybe capela or WCS or shiteside? drummond?)
-- maybe a bit of experience/toughness (james johnson? mike scott? avery bradley? marcus and/or markieff morris? james posey? marvin williams? jae crowder?)


but they can get all/most/some of that crossed off since they still have the draft, free agency and next year's trade deadline in front of them.


if i was them, i'd take jarrett culver at #4, then make a run at nik vucevic as soon as free agency opens.

G: jrue, lonzo, etwaun moore
W: ingram, culver, hart
F: zion, (randle?)
B: vucevic, diallo, wood



i'd also poke around GSW because if they wind up resigning durant and klay, NOP may have some daylight to make an offer for draymond. if that happens, a lineup of lonzo-jrue-(ingram/culver/hart)-zion-draymond would be one of the most dangerous teams in the playoffs.
   3767. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:27 PM (#5852372)
Probably fake but FWIW (the guy is verified but has like 400 followers):
@CodyMSchiever
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Jimmy Butler has agreed to sign with the LA Lakers when Free Agency begins on June 30th at 6:00 p.m EST. First reported
   3768. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:31 PM (#5852377)
Butler has always seemed the most likely guy to want to come here to me, but yeah, it could be fake. OTOH, Pelinka may have triggered knowing he had an in on Butler.

If that actually happens, Popovich, Cuban, Gilbert, and Barkley will all publicly demand an investigation.
   3769. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:36 PM (#5852379)
Butler might make more sense than Kemba considering James' age and desire to try on defense, though they really need to add some shooting. Pelton also noted in his article on the trade that Lakers will be slightly below max cap room:
As noted, the Lakers won't have max room if they make a Davis trade immediately after the moratorium. In fact, even if they traded everybody on the roster besides LeBron and AD -- and Davis waived his $4 million trade bonus -- they'd still come up a hair shy of the max for players with 7-9 years of experience based on current projections. So fans of other teams probably don't have to worry about the Lakers building a superteam around three present All-Stars.


But with Lebron and AD already there I could see another star being fine with that if it's barely under.
   3770. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:36 PM (#5852380)
two things worth pointing out about LAL's end of this:

1: lebron has not played well with elite bigs. he turned bosh into a spot up shooter, then did the same thing to love. to be fair, neither bosh nor love were as good as davis is, but they were top 10-15 players in the world when lebron turned each of them into robert horry.

2: at this point in his career, lebron doesn't seem to want to play defense or be a primary facilitator. he's not all-in anymore, and i think that's as big a reason as any of the others as to why top FAs don't want to take LAL's money.
   3771. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:42 PM (#5852382)
Stigs is apparently a little pissed off that James will be playing with the only big in the NBA who is better than Joel Embiid.

   3772. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:48 PM (#5852383)
I mean, at least part of this is looking past LeBron, and that’s reason enough to get Davis.
   3773. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:51 PM (#5852385)
2: at this point in his career, lebron doesn't seem to want to play defense or be a primary facilitator. he's not all-in anymore, and i think that's as big a reason as any of the others as to why top FAs don't want to take LAL's money.
Jimmy Butler has agreed to sign with the LA Lakers when Free Agency begins on June 30th at 6:00 p.m EST. First reported

oh, FFS.


obviously i hope the report is wrong, but i wouldn't be "shocked" if butler does go to LAL. i can't even honestly say it'd be a mistake, but as a sixers fan, it'd be a huge disappointment.
   3774. PJ Martinez Posted: June 15, 2019 at 09:57 PM (#5852388)
Windhorst said the Lakers gave Pelicans control of their picks for the "next 5 to 7 years."
Woj says Jimmy Butler could have interest in the Lakers if things don't work out with the Sixers.
   3775. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 10:01 PM (#5852389)
Boston: Like I have said many times, building a title-level NBA roster requires luck and timing as well as money and smarts. Ainge is smart, and Boston will spend money. But with Hayward's injury, Irving's weirdness, George's deciding he likes Westbrook, Masai Ujiri's smarts and timing, and James' decision to go to the Lakers, helping to get Davis here, the timing and luck have not been working for Ainge the last couple of years.

But we'll see. Things have a way of changing fast sometimes, and Ainge makes moves.
   3776. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 10:04 PM (#5852392)
Windhorst may be right, but he also said that Davis was probably going to Boston. My guess is that the three picks and a lot of talk from Griffin were required to get Gayle Benson to sign off.
   3777. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 15, 2019 at 10:14 PM (#5852396)
I just have this feeling that LeBron the force is done. A year of nagging injuries doesn't bode well. I mean, AD might be the 5th or so best player in the league but if LeBron is only the 15th or 20th best player, that's not a juggernaut per se.

One thing is for sure, it'll be interesting to see. I tend to agree with STIGGLES that this is an overpay for a year of AD if he was going to go there anyway, but a hand in the bush, Paul George, etc..
   3778. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2019 at 10:19 PM (#5852400)
Marc Stein

Verified account

@TheSteinLine
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The Boston Celtics refused to make Jayson Tatum available in trade talks with New Orleans, league sources say, putting the Lakers in prime position to strike the deal that teams Anthony Davis with LeBron James



Who could have predicted this? Truly impossible to guess that Ainge was going to lowball.

***

1: lebron has not played well with elite bigs. he turned bosh into a spot up shooter, then did the same thing to love. to be fair, neither bosh nor love were as good as davis is, but they were top 10-15 players in the world when lebron turned each of them into robert horry.


So I do actually think this is a potential concern. Davis is actually a better defender than Bosh (although LeBron is obviously much diminished from Miami). I'd be more confident if I thought the coach was really able to handle all of this.

Btw: great job getting Jason Kidd to mentor Lonzo, Lakers.
   3779. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 15, 2019 at 10:21 PM (#5852401)
I just have this feeling that LeBron the force is done. A year of nagging injuries doesn't bode well. I mean, AD might be the 5th or so best player in the league but if LeBron is only the 15th or 20th best player, that's not a juggernaut per se.

One thing is for sure, it'll be interesting to see. I tend to agree with STIGGLES that this is an overpay for a year of AD if he was going to go there anyway, but a hand in the bush, Paul George, etc..
considering the many, many (many) times i tapdanced on the grave of the team that wound up winning the NBA title this year (going through MIL, PHI and (the undead corpse of) GSW to do it, no less), i may not be the guy you want to agree with right now.
   3780. JC in DC Posted: June 15, 2019 at 10:27 PM (#5852403)
Any Fultz news lately? I'm serious. Wondering about that kid, since Tatum came up.
   3781. Kurt Posted: June 15, 2019 at 10:32 PM (#5852405)
Rose wasn't a massive disappointment. The injuries were, but that's different than the rest of those bums.


John Wall's reputation really has fallen *hard*, hasn't it.
   3782. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 15, 2019 at 10:46 PM (#5852411)
Any Fultz news lately? I'm serious. Wondering about that kid, since Tatum came up.

ofc not.

   3783. sardonic Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:20 PM (#5852418)
I like that trade for NOP, it's along the lines of what I was looking for.

@Athletic Supporter
I am in if you and Stiggles can work it out. I think two mid firsts and a late first is close enough to what I was looking for.
   3784. PJ Martinez Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:22 PM (#5852419)
The Pelicans will get the following picks from the Lakers, league sources tell ESPN:

No. 4 pick in 2019
Top-8 protected in 2021, becomes unprotected in ‘22
Unprotected swap in ‘23
Unprotected first in ‘24
Unprotected swap in ‘25

Tremendous haul for David Griffin & the Pelicans.
   3785. sardonic Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:24 PM (#5852420)
I also disagree with Stiggles... The core of Jrue, Ball, Ingram and Zion doesn't have enough shooting. I think that's like the 18th best offense. It also doesn't have any rim protection. Very few rookies are actual playoff rotation material no matter how good their long term prognosis, and by next year Jrue will be in his last year.

Instead of shoving in my chips for Vucevic, I'm biding my time one more year and picking up assets more aligned with Zion's prime.
   3786. PJ Martinez Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:25 PM (#5852421)
Anthony Randolph was a 40% 3 point shooter this season for Real Madrid on 6.5 attempts per36. 17 points per 36.

Do the right thing Warriors.
   3787. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:28 PM (#5852422)
So I do actually think this is a potential concern. Davis is actually a better defender than Bosh (although LeBron is obviously much diminished from Miami). I'd be more confident if I thought the coach was really able to handle all of this.


I am not concerned about either fit or Vogel. The big concerns for me are simple:

1. James's age.
2. The draft pick package, which I have now seen. Edit: and was posted above by a Celtics fan.

This will work for the Lakers strategically if James has another two years as a Top-10ish guy, they land a really good FA to replace him when he is done, and if Davis has a healthy 6-7 year run as a top player. The other way it works is the Banners Hang Forever scenario, where maybe it all falls apart by 2022 but they actually win a championship before it does.

   3788. sardonic Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:29 PM (#5852423)
Wow, with the swaps that's insane. LeBron will be 41 in 2025, and even with an extension I think that's the last year of AD's deal. If AD misses a chunk of time at any point in the next five years one of those picks could end up in the lottery.
   3789. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:34 PM (#5852425)
Keep in mind that the flattened lottery odds make “disaster” scenarios less painful.
   3790. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:42 PM (#5852427)
Wow, with the swaps that's insane.


Nah. But it is a pretty big gamble, but at the same time, you have to allow for the possibility Pelinka knows stuff we don't--specifically, that no FAs are coming, and/or maybe one will come now that Davis is here. Also, I think the assumption that Davis would have come next year is questionable, since I think that a chance for a 2-3 year run with James is a big part of the reason Davis is here, and that the FO's word they would empty the gun to get a second star by this year at the latest is a big reason James came here to begin with.

That said, they could have just kept everybody and everything and tried to sign Butler or Irving outright, and had a good team next year if they had been able to. If this goes wrong, they will be in another long downturn, like they were after the Nash and Howard deals blew up.

But there are so many variables and complex realities: development arcs, guys coming off their rookie deals. injuries, uncertainty of lottery as noted above, crapshoot of draft, etc.
   3791. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2019 at 11:42 PM (#5852428)
Wow, with the swaps that's insane.


I don't think the swaps matter. It's basically impossible to predict whether a given team will be better six years in the future.

The 2024 first hurts, but that's really the only one.
   3792. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 16, 2019 at 12:02 AM (#5852434)
I don't think the swaps matter. It's basically impossible to predict whether a given team will be better six years in the future.


What? This is backwards -- that's exactly why they DO matter.

If we assume both picks are evenly distributed between 1-30, if you're subject to a swap, you have a 1 in 10 chance of getting a top 10 pick, and those are heavily weighted towards the bottom of that range (of course, you can't draft first). That's not great.

Conversely, if you are on the good side of a swap, you have a 56% chance of drafting in the top 10, slightly weighted towards the good side of that.

That's a 5x difference in terms of odds of getting a premium pick. If you look at top 5, it's more like a 15x difference.
   3793. Scott Lange Posted: June 16, 2019 at 12:05 AM (#5852435)
I don't think the swaps matter. It's basically impossible to predict whether a given team will be better six years in the future.


If your second sentence is true, then you’re saying the Lakers may well be worse then the Pelicans, which makes your first sentence false.

FWIW, I mostly agree with sentence 2, which is why I think the swaps are pretty darn nice to have.
   3794. aberg Posted: June 16, 2019 at 12:22 AM (#5852440)
Me: I really like LeBron. He's fun to watch. We're the same age, and I can follow the career of this prodigy and see if he makes good.

World: what if he publicly antagonizes his home town to embarrass everyone?

Me: uhh

World: and then goes to the one franchise you hate?

Me: uhh

World: and then another superstar undermines his team for a full year to agitate to get to the Lakers in a way that embarrasses the whole league?

Me: uhh

World: and then we'll have your favorite team mortgage its future on a star player, and that player will eviscerate the whole franchise such that the whole coaching staff and front office will have to be turned over.

Me: wait, what?

World: and when that player gets traded for cents on the dollar, he will join the jerk superstar and LeBron on the one team you hate. You sure you like LeBron?

Me: why can't we just have nice things?
   3795. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 16, 2019 at 12:40 AM (#5852441)
That is a big gamble, given those swaps. Oof.
   3796. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: June 16, 2019 at 12:46 AM (#5852443)
This really could be the Celtics-Nets trade v2.0.
   3797. stevegamer Posted: June 16, 2019 at 01:01 AM (#5852445)
My opinion of Griffin as a GM just went up with that deal. The swaps, while they could be nothing, could be huge.

In a year where things go awry for the Lakers, that's a nice extra shot at a nice pick.

Mavs are open for business, not that we have much behind Doncic & Porzingis. Everyone else is available, more or less.
   3798. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: June 16, 2019 at 01:19 AM (#5852446)
This really could be the Celtics-Nets trade v2.0.
Perhaps this is unfair to the Lakers, who now are in a much better position to contend than the Nets were following their trade.

And to bring it all the way around, don't forget part of that 2013 deal was... Kyle Kuzma.

July 12, 2013: The Boston Celtics trade Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Jason Terry, D.J. White, a 2017 1st round draft pick (Kyle Kuzma was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Aleksandar Vezenkov was later selected) to the Brooklyn Nets for Keith Bogans, MarShon Brooks, Kris Humphries, Kris Joseph, Gerald Wallace, a 2014 1st round draft pick (James Young was later selected), a 2016 1st round draft pick (Jaylen Brown was later selected), a 2017 1st round draft pick (Markelle Fultz was later selected) and a 2018 1st round draft pick (Collin Sexton was later selected). (BOS got 2017 #1 overall pick from BRK as result of pick swap)
   3799. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 16, 2019 at 01:35 AM (#5852447)
Flip
   3800. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 16, 2019 at 01:36 AM (#5852448)
Murray
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