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Tuesday, April 16, 2019

OT - NBA thread (Playoffs through off-season)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and this one only cares about the NBA thread and the Cubs so I have no idea what the rest of the website cares about.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 16, 2019 at 02:18 PM | 6241 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   4001. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2019 at 11:16 AM (#5853113)

BOSTON is on the clock.

1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball - Ja Morant, G, Murray State
3. New York – JC and NJ - RJ Barrett, F, Duke
4. New Orleans (from LAL) - sardonic - Jarrett Culver, G Texas Tech
5. Cleveland - Harlond - DeAndre Hunter, F, UVA
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic - Coby White, PG, UNC
7. Chicago - Moses - Darius Garland, G, Vanderbilt
8. Atlanta - Der-K - Cam Reddish, F, Duke
9. Indiana – JJ - Brandon Clarke, F/C, Gonzaga
10. Atlanta - Der-K - Bol Bol, C, Oregon
11. Minnesota - aberg - Nickeil Alexander-Walker, G, Virginia Tech
12. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - Sekou Doumbouya, F, Limoges CSP
13. Miami – Mouse - Jaxson Hayes, C, Texas
14. Boston – stevegamer
15. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
16. New Orleans (from ORL) – sardonic
17. Atlanta - Der-K
18. Indiana – JJ1986
19. San Antonio – Quaker
20. Boston – stevegamer
21. Oklahoma City – Thok
22. Boston – stevegamer
23. Memphis (from UTA) – Willard Baseball
24. New Orleans (from PHI) – sardonic
25. Portland – PASTE
26. Cleveland - Harlond
27. Brooklyn – mike f
28. Golden State - sardonic
29. San Antonio – Quaker
30. Milwaukee – Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw

31. Brooklyn – mike f
32. New Orleans (from PHO) – sardonic
33. Philadelphia- 57i66135
34. Philadelphia- 57i66135
35. Atlanta - Der-K
36. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
37. Dallas
38. Chicago - Moses
39. Memphis (from NOP via PHO)– Willard Baseball
40. Sacramento - smileyy
41. Atlanta - Der-K
42. New Orleans (from PHI) – sardonic
43. Minnesota - aberg
44. Atlanta- Der-K
45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
46. Orlando – Athletic Supporter
47. Sacramento - smileyy
48. LA Clippers
49. San Antonio – Quaker
50. Indiana – JJ1986
51. Boston – stevegamer
52. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135
55. New York – JC and NJ
56. LA Clippers
57. New Orleans – sardonic
58. Golden State - sardonic
59. Toronto
60. Sacramento - smileyy

Transactions:
MEM #39, Josh Jackson, Tyler Johnson
PHO Derrick Favors

MEM #23, Derrick Favors, Tony Bradley
UTA Mike Conley

NOP #16 (from ORL), #24 (from PHI), #42 (from PHI), ORL 2021 #1 (top-10 protected, then top-4, then unprotected), Mozgov (from ORL)
ORL J. Holiday (from NOP), J. Simmons (from PHI)
PHI Frank Jackson and Melvin Frazier(?) (from NOP), Fournier (from ORL)

NOP #32
PHO #39, Jahlil Okafor

WAS #17, #35
ATL #9

ATL Damontis Sabonis, #18
IND #9, #44

IRL:
NOP #4, Ingram, Ball, Hart, future 1sts and swaps
   4002. JJ1986 Posted: June 18, 2019 at 11:18 AM (#5853114)
I think this is all right. Boston is on the clock.

1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball - Ja Morant, G, Murray State
3. New York – JC and NJ - RJ Barrett, F, Duke
4. New Orleans (from LAL) - sardonic - Jarrett Culver, G Texas Tech
5. Cleveland - Harlond - DeAndre Hunter, F, UVA
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic - Coby White, PG, UNC
7. Chicago - Moses - Darius Garland, G, Vanderbilt
8. Atlanta - Der-K - Cam Reddish, F, Duke
9. Indiana – JJ - Brandon Clarke, F/C, Gonzaga
10. Atlanta - Der-K - Bol Bol, C, Oregon
11. Minnesota - aberg - Nickeil Alexander-Walker, G, Virginia Tech
12. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - Sekou Doumbouya, F, Limoges CSP
13. Miami – Mouse – Jaxson Hayes, C, Texas
14. Boston – The Might Quintana
15. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
16. New Orleans (from ORL) – sardonic
17. New Orleans (from ATL via WAS) - sardonic
18. Atlanta (from IND) – Der-K
19. San Antonio – Quaker
20. Boston – The Might Quintana
21. Oklahoma City – Thok
22. Boston – The Might Quintana
23. Memphis (from UTA) – Willard Baseball
24. Washington (from PHI via WAS) – Dandy Little Glove Man
25. Atlanta – Der-K
26. Cleveland - Harlond
27. Brooklyn – mike f
28. Golden State - sardonic
29. San Antonio – Quaker
30. Milwaukee – Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw

31. Brooklyn – mike f
32. Washington (from PHO via NOP) – Dandy Little Glove Man
33. Philadelphia- 57i66135
34. Philadelphia- 57i66135
35. Washington (from ATL) - Der-K
36. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
37. Dallas - stevegamer
38. Chicago - Moses
39. Memphis (from NOP via PHO)– Willard Baseball
40. Sacramento - smileyy
41. Atlanta - Der-K
42. New Orleans (from PHI) – sardonic
43. Minnesota - aberg
44. Indiana (from ATL) - JJ1986
45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
46. Orlando – Athletic Supporter
47. Sacramento - smileyy
48. LA Clippers
49. San Antonio – Quaker
50. Indiana – JJ1986
51. Boston – The Might Quintana
52. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135
55. New York – JC and NJ
56. LA Clippers
57. New Orleans – sardonic
58. Golden State - sardonic
59. Toronto
60. Sacramento - smileyy

Transactions:
MEM #39, Josh Jackson, Tyler Johnson
PHO Derrick Favors

MEM #23, Derrick Favors, Tony Bradley
UTA Mike Conley

NOP #16 (from ORL), #24 (from PHI), #42 (from PHI), ORL 2021 #1 (top-10 protected, then top-4, then unprotected), Mozgov (from ORL)
ORL J. Holiday (from NOP), J. Simmons (from PHI)
PHI Frank Jackson and Melvin Frazier(?) (from NOP), Fournier (from ORL)

NOP #32
PHO #39, Jahlil Okafor

WAS #17, #35
ATL #9

ATL Damontis Sabonis, #18
IND #9, #44

NOP #17
WAS #24, #32

POR Omari Spellman
ATL Skal Labissiere, #25

IRL:
NOP #4, Ingram, Ball, Hart, future 1sts and swaps
LAL Anthony Davis
   4003. billyshears Posted: June 18, 2019 at 11:52 AM (#5853122)
I actually prefer Barrett over Morant for the Knicks. Maybe I'm just tired of watching young point guards flounder. But I think we can fetishize efficiency for young players that have a broad base of skills. Barrett has very good size, strength and athleticism. He is strong and physical. He can score, create and rebound. He's reported to be a very hard worker. He's also not yet 19. He did get ball dominant and took a lot of bad shots. His shooting is just ok (some of that is shot selection). If he works, I think his shot improves, he learns the game, becomes more selective, and the efficiency comes. That's the upside. The downside is of course Andrew Wiggins.

On a related note, a number of the points above are why I'm somewhat high on D'Angelo Russell. If Kyrie goes to the Nets, I can see the Knicks making a run at him. Obviously, Durant is still the Holy Grail, but given his injury, I'm more apt to try to go young with the Knicks remaining cap space rather than make a run at Butler or Kemba or another FA whose prime is sliding by and will spend the next year trying to drag a team of 20 year olds to the 8th spot. I know there is a real split of opinion on D-Lo around here, and the overwhelming likelihood is that he will never be as good as Kyrie, Butler or Kemba, but he will cost less, and I can see D-Lo continuing to improve, much like Bradley Beal did. I don't mind the thought of putting him on next year's Knicks team and hoping that group can grow together.
   4004. Master of the Horse Posted: June 18, 2019 at 12:29 PM (#5853131)
Lot of creating thinking here. Pretty cool.

   4005. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2019 at 12:45 PM (#5853145)
For the record I was looking at Bol Bol and Sekou Doumbouya, so I had to find another option.

On the flip side I wasn't interested in Jarrett Culver, Cam Reddish, or especially Cam Reddish. But that might say more about me than them honestly.

EDIT: The first Cam was supposed to be Brandon Clarke, but the result is funny enough I am leaving it.
   4006. The Mighty Quintana Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:00 PM (#5853151)
Ahhh, really wanted Jaxson Hayes.

Celtics select Romeo Langford
   4007. sardonic Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:01 PM (#5853153)
We now have this year's Jordan Bell award winner: Sekou Doumbouya!

(already off the board at 12 to Charlotte)

Edit: Nice ninja edit 4006!
   4008. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:02 PM (#5853155)
I have a confession...I still like Cam Reddish. I feel like I've been peer pressured out of my feelings for him.
   4009. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:08 PM (#5853159)
Barrett has very good size, strength and athleticism. He is strong and physical. He can score, create and rebound. He's reported to be a very hard worker. He's also not yet 19. He did get ball dominant and took a lot of bad shots. His shooting is just ok (some of that is shot selection). If he works, I think his shot improves, he learns the game, becomes more selective, and the efficiency comes. That's the upside. The downside is of course Andrew Wiggins.

He's not a very good athlete and if the shooting thing was purely shot selection (and the shot selection is...REALLY bad and it doesn't make me feel better that every flowery quote about him is about how's a real New Yorker and an Alpha male and the second coming of Kobe except without all the Kobe skill) his FT% would have been better. He definitely seems to be a hard worker though, so that's nice.
   4010. aberg Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:10 PM (#5853161)
I have a confession...I still like Cam Reddish. I feel like I've been peer pressured out of my feelings for him.


I can sympathize. I've always kind of likd DLo and was excited to see him linked to the Wolves, and then discussion here has really made me reconsider. I'm being DLo-shamed online.
   4011. The Mighty Quintana Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:11 PM (#5853162)
Langford does (and does not do) the things Jaylen Brown does. But both are smart and hard workers, so hoping they challenge each other and get incremental improvements in 3P% and FT%.

Anyway, C's should get good rebounding from the wings and guards, at least.
   4012. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:27 PM (#5853177)
Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress 39m39 minutes ago

Source: The Atlanta Hawks have been aggressive exploring trades packaging the No. 8 and 10 picks to move up in the draft. Their offer to the Knicks for the No. 3 pick was apparently rebuffed. The Pelicans are considering the possibility of trading the No. 4 pick for 8+10.]

Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress 1h1 hour ago

Darius Garland will conduct a last-minute workout in Tarrytown with the New York Knicks tomorrow, a source told ESPN. Garland is in serious consideration for the No. 3 pick. Minnesota, Boston, Chicago are teams looking at potentially trading up to No. 4 with Garland in mind.
   4013. sardonic Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:31 PM (#5853180)
Seeing how this draft has played out and getting to know the prospects a bit better, it feels like the second tier is Garland, Culver, Hunter and maybe White going 4-7, which makes trading all the way back to 8 a bit painful. Still, I guess maybe Griffin is a better NBA GM than me. Or maybe the rest of you are just better than Pelinka and Co.
   4014. sardonic Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:32 PM (#5853181)
I mean, who really knows right, if Griff were to trade back to 8 and 10 I'd support the move as shadow GM.
   4015. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5853192)
Pick 15 Pistons take Grant Williams

I was brain washed by some posts at The Stepien
   4016. DCA Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:58 PM (#5853198)
I mean, who really knows right, if Griff were to trade back to 8 and 10 I'd support the move as shadow GM.

And I, as shadow fanboy. Beyond the first N, where N varies by draft, either 1 or 2 in this draft, sometimes as low as zero, you're better off with lottery pick volume than the highest pick.
   4017. JC in DC Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:58 PM (#5853200)
[4009] Not a fan, huh, NJ?
   4018. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:14 PM (#5853211)
Those Stepien rankings are weird (which is fine!) but also include at least one guy not in the draft anymore (not good) and they’ve relatively little draft content this year. Wonder why?
   4019. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:16 PM (#5853215)
Those Stepien rankings are weird (which is fine!) but also include at least one guy not in the draft anymore (not good) and they’ve relatively little draft content this year. Wonder why?


Seems like they've half let the site go for things like rankings. Which is obviously weird. The Ben Rubin write ups of Williams sold me.
   4020. JJ1986 Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:20 PM (#5853217)
Sean Derenthal left The Stepien to work for the Sixers and I think he was the guy putting stuff like rankings together. It does seem that no one took over that role.
   4021. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:28 PM (#5853221)
Asked and answered; thanks!
   4022. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:29 PM (#5853222)
Oriole Tragic, I’d do it (give you Skal) for something trivial, like a protected future second round pick (say, 2020 - protected 31-44, after five years it converts into 500k if not conveyed). If you don’t mind getting cute, toss in the rights to Cenk Aykol, who will never play in the NBA but whose rights have been traded many times - twice by Atlanta.
@Der-K sold, including the cute option.
   4023. . Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:30 PM (#5853223)
Pretty clear that the Knicks are leaking the Atlanta turndown and the Garland workout because they're shopping the 3. Hope they know what they're doing, but confidence is naturally low.

(Meanwhile, the Rangers rebuild continues to go almost perfectly, with yet another pre-draft trade steal (Jacob Trouba) and a few days out from adding a generational or near-generational talent with the 2nd pick in the draft. It's hard to find comparisons for a situation where the same clown owns two businesses wherein one is run fantastically and the other is run completely incompetently. Even the movies would be hard-pressed to make up something so bizarre.)
   4024. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:31 PM (#5853225)
Anyone looking to move out of the late 1st?

Are we allowed to buy picks here?

Knicks would like to make some moves.

EDIT: Early 2nd works too.
   4025. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:36 PM (#5853229)
Harrison Barnes just opted out of his $25mil option for next year, for some reason.

also, the Bucks would be interested in moving out of #30 for a couple second rounders, but the Knicks don't really have that to offer.
   4026. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:56 PM (#5853237)
@sardonic/NOP is on the clock.

1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball - Ja Morant, G, Murray State
3. New York – JC and NJ - RJ Barrett, F, Duke
4. New Orleans (from LAL) - sardonic - Jarrett Culver, G Texas Tech
5. Cleveland - Harlond - DeAndre Hunter, F, UVA
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic - Coby White, PG, UNC
7. Chicago - Moses - Darius Garland, G, Vanderbilt
8. Atlanta - Der-K - Cam Reddish, F, Duke
9. Indiana – JJ - Brandon Clarke, F/C, Gonzaga
10. Atlanta - Der-K - Bol Bol, C, Oregon
11. Minnesota - aberg - Nickeil Alexander-Walker, G, Virginia Tech
12. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - Sekou Doumbouya, F, Limoges CSP
13. Miami – Mouse – Jaxson Hayes, C, Texas
14. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Romeo Langford, G, Indiana
15. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - Grant Williams, F, UT
16. New Orleans (from ORL) – sardonic ON THE CLOCK
17. New Orleans (from ATL via WAS) - sardonic

18. Atlanta (from IND) – Der-K
19. San Antonio – Quaker
20. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
21. Oklahoma City – Thok
22. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
23. Memphis (from UTA) – Willard Baseball
24. Washington (from PHI via WAS) – Dandy Little Glove Man
25. Atlanta – Der-K
26. Cleveland - Harlond
27. Brooklyn – mike f
28. Golden State - sardonic
29. San Antonio – Quaker
30. Milwaukee – Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw

31. Brooklyn – mike f
32. Washington (from PHO via NOP) – Dandy Little Glove Man
33. Philadelphia- 57i66135
34. Philadelphia- 57i66135
35. Washington (from ATL) - Dandy Little Glove Man
36. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
37. Dallas - stevegamer
38. Chicago - Moses
39. Memphis (from NOP via PHO)– Willard Baseball
40. Sacramento - smileyy
41. Atlanta - Der-K
42. New Orleans (from PHI) – sardonic
43. Minnesota - aberg
44. Indiana (from ATL) - JJ1986
45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
46. Orlando – Athletic Supporter
47. Sacramento - smileyy
48. LA Clippers
49. San Antonio – Quaker
50. Indiana – JJ1986
51. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
52. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135
55. New York – JC and NJ
56. LA Clippers
57. New Orleans – sardonic
58. Golden State - sardonic
59. Toronto
60. Sacramento - smileyy

Transactions:
MEM #39, Josh Jackson, Tyler Johnson
PHO Derrick Favors

MEM #23, Derrick Favors, Tony Bradley
UTA Mike Conley

NOP #16 (from ORL), #24 (from PHI), #42 (from PHI), ORL 2021 #1 (top-10 protected, then top-4, then unprotected), Mozgov (from ORL)
ORL J. Holiday (from NOP), J. Simmons (from PHI)
PHI Frank Jackson and Melvin Frazier(?) (from NOP), Fournier (from ORL)

NOP #32
PHO #39, Jahlil Okafor

WAS #17, #35
ATL #9

ATL Damontis Sabonis, #18
IND #9, #44

NOP #17
WAS #24, #32

POR Omari Spellman
ATL Skal Labissiere, #25

ATL 2020 2nd (protected 31-44 or 500K in 2025), rights to Cenk Aykol
PHO Skal Labissiere

IRL:
NOP #4, Ingram, Ball, Hart, future 1sts and swaps
LAL Anthony Davis
   4027. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:59 PM (#5853238)
[4025] I am willing to let go a lightly used Allonzo Trier.

EDIT: [4009] Not a fan, huh, NJ?

There are some positives...but also some (for me) glaring red flags. I want him to be great.
   4028. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 18, 2019 at 03:09 PM (#5853240)
Griffey, I don’t know how much you want to think about the Bucks’ FA situation but they need to save a few $ salary wise - hence the real world attempts to move Snell or Ilyasova (who’s actually on a decent contract, imo).
   4029. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 18, 2019 at 03:10 PM (#5853241)

@NJ in NY what do you want (if anything) from PHO for Trier?
   4030. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 18, 2019 at 03:10 PM (#5853242)
One would assume the Barnes opt out is because they have a multi-year agreement in place (distributing his "extra" money across it).
   4031. The Good Face Posted: June 18, 2019 at 03:27 PM (#5853249)
Barrett has very good size, strength and athleticism. He is strong and physical. He can score, create and rebound. He's reported to be a very hard worker. He's also not yet 19. He did get ball dominant and took a lot of bad shots. His shooting is just ok (some of that is shot selection). If he works, I think his shot improves, he learns the game, becomes more selective, and the efficiency comes. That's the upside. The downside is of course Andrew Wiggins.


I like Barrett too, for many of the same reasons. He's not a superfreak athlete, but how many times do we need to see guys who weren't superfreak athletes go on to become big stars before we stop fetishizing that? He's got good size and strength for his age, a broad spectrum of skills, and most importantly has a huge motor. Yeah, he occasionally got selfish and had questionable shot selection, but he also busted his ass all the time. That alone distinguishes him from the Wiggins of the world.
   4032. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 18, 2019 at 03:30 PM (#5853252)
He's not a superfreak athlete, but how many times do we need to see guys who weren't superfreak athletes go on to become big stars before we stop fetishizing that?

Those guys usually have elite skill(s).
   4033. aberg Posted: June 18, 2019 at 03:46 PM (#5853264)
One would assume the Barnes opt out is because they have a multi-year agreement in place (distributing his "extra" money across it).


I will baselessly speculate that he will re-sign for 4 years and between 65-75m.
   4034. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5853271)
He's not a superfreak athlete, but how many times do we need to see guys who weren't superfreak athletes go on to become big stars before we stop fetishizing that?
Those guys usually have elite skill(s).
And when they don't, they become Jeff Green. To my non-expert eyes, RJ Barrett is a gunner version of Jeff Green. He's not without value, but I wouldn't pick him until the teens.
   4035. mike f Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:07 PM (#5853272)
Nets are looking to trade out of 27 and/or 31. I'm assuming we're signing Kyrie and I'm going after Jimmy Butler.

Also, I'm not particularly interested in trading Dinwiddie or Napier. Apologies for the late response on those feelers.
   4036. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:09 PM (#5853274)
One thing I think is funny about this period: signings can't be announced, but it seems like people often instead take otherwise gratuitous/dumb actions that imply those deals, presumably to try to convey them for the benefit of other FAs in terms of potential teammates / cap space. A few of these:

-- Nets renouncing RHJ
-- Barnes declining p-opt
-- Josh Hart parading around in a NOLA shirt
-- Utah saying they aren't interested in re-signing Rubio
   4037. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:18 PM (#5853281)
Griffey, I don’t know how much you want to think about the Bucks’ FA situation but they need to save a few $ salary wise - hence the real world attempts to move Snell or Ilyasova (who’s actually on a decent contract, imo).

yeah, I think the Bucks will probably trade this pick but for the purposes of this exercise I've decided I don't care because:

a) in real life the team has the capability to bring all their crucial pieces back without moving anybody. It'll just cost the owners more money, of which they have plenty.

and b), considering I don't really care about them spending more money in real life, I really shouldn't care about it in a fun mock draft on a baseball message board. There's a legitimate case that adding another cost-controlled player is as important as shedding salary for the Bucks, and it's more fun, so that's the approach I'm taking.
   4038. The Good Face Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:23 PM (#5853282)
He's not a superfreak athlete, but how many times do we need to see guys who weren't superfreak athletes go on to become big stars before we stop fetishizing that?

Those guys usually have elite skill(s).

And when they don't, they become Jeff Green. To my non-expert eyes, RJ Barrett is a gunner version of Jeff Green. He's not without value, but I wouldn't pick him until the teens.


Damn, the kid is like 18, it's probably a little early to write off his skills. I'm not saying I think he's a sure thing to be a star, but in this draft there's no obvious better choice at 3.
   4039. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:39 PM (#5853288)
The delicate relationship between Houston Rockets stars James Harden and Chris Paul has been termed “unsalvageable” and the star players want a divorce, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Paul went to Rockets management and demanded a trade, and Harden issued a “him or me” edict following the Rockets’ second-round loss to the Golden State Warriors, sources said.

The backcourt mates went nearly two months without speaking to each other during the season, sources said, creating a tenuous environment for teammates and everyone involved with the franchise.
Linky.
   4040. sardonic Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5853289)
Der-K is on the clock!

16. New Orleans selects C Goga Bitadze, Mega Bemax


Bitadze is being mocked in this range (14th to Boston by the Athletic, 19th to San Antonio by ESPN), and I like the sound of a young player with real Euroleague potential and is described as a good pick and roll finisher, able to protect the rim and with a little range.

17. New Orleans selects F Rui Hachimura, Gonzaga


I was torn between a few players here, but again picked someone roughly mocked in this range (13th at the Athletic, 12th at ESPN). I liked the combination of shooting (.746 FT% and .417 on 1 3PA per game his last year) and athleticism stats (0.9 BLK + 0.6 STL) over the other options I was looking at show me that there's some defensive potential here to guard bigger forwards/smaller centers while adding some spacing in smaller lineups.

Current asset list (ahem), I mean roster:

PG Lonzo Ball
SG Jarrett Culver
SF Brandon Ingram
PF Zion Williamson
C Goga Bitadze

C Timofey Mozgov
F Rui Hachimura
SG Josh Hart
SG E'Twan Moore
SF Solomon Hill
PF Christian Wood

That's a ton of youth. I still have #42 and #57 left, and am now in the market to take on veterans that are perhaps bad money but could be useful mentors to a group like this with some young veterans like Ingram, Hart, Moore and Hill. Still I think it's a core with a ton of athleticism, plus length, a notable lack of shooting (which I tried to infuse through Culver and Hachimura). Someone like Shaun Livingston.

Long term, if you get one All Star out of Lonzo, Ingram, Culver, Bitadze and Hachimura to pair with Zion, that's a pretty good start, and there'd hopefully be at least one more decent starter and a rotation player in that group.

It might be quite at the Ben Simmons/Joel Embiid level core the Process yielded in terms of highest end talent, but I'd probably take that over a lot of other rebuilding situations given how clean the cap sheet looks.

Plus with $34M in cap space remaining, that's plenty of room to sign a good young veteran piece (Beal in a couple years? Looney can't cost more than a few million bucks, Brogdon or Randle?) in case there are bargains to be had, and/or land another first round pick for absorbing contracts, and or just keep your powder dry for next season after Mozgov's money is off the books and you know more about what you have with this stable of young talent.

1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball - Ja Morant, G, Murray State
3. New York – JC and NJ - RJ Barrett, F, Duke
4. New Orleans (from LAL) - sardonic - Jarrett Culver, G Texas Tech
5. Cleveland - Harlond - DeAndre Hunter, F, UVA
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic - Coby White, PG, UNC
7. Chicago - Moses - Darius Garland, G, Vanderbilt
8. Atlanta - Der-K - Cam Reddish, F, Duke
9. Indiana – JJ - Brandon Clarke, F/C, Gonzaga
10. Atlanta - Der-K - Bol Bol, C, Oregon
11. Minnesota - aberg - Nickeil Alexander-Walker, G, Virginia Tech
12. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - Sekou Doumbouya, F, Limoges CSP
13. Miami – Mouse – Jaxson Hayes, C, Texas
14. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Romeo Langford, G, Indiana
15. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - Grant Williams, F, UT
16. New Orleans (from ORL) – sardonic - Goga Bitadze, C, Mega Bemax
17. New Orleans (from ATL via WAS) - sardonic - Rui Hachimura, F, Gonzaga
18. Atlanta (from IND) – Der-K - ON THE CLOCK
19. San Antonio – Quaker
20. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
21. Oklahoma City – Thok
22. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
23. Memphis (from UTA) – Willard Baseball
24. Washington (from PHI via WAS) – Dandy Little Glove Man
25. Atlanta – Der-K
26. Cleveland - Harlond
27. Brooklyn – mike f
28. Golden State - sardonic
29. San Antonio – Quaker
30. Milwaukee – Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw

31. Brooklyn – mike f
32. Washington (from PHO via NOP) – Dandy Little Glove Man
33. Philadelphia- 57i66135
34. Philadelphia- 57i66135
35. Washington (from ATL) - Dandy Little Glove Man
36. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
37. Dallas - stevegamer
38. Chicago - Moses
39. Memphis (from NOP via PHO)– Willard Baseball
40. Sacramento - smileyy
41. Atlanta - Der-K
42. New Orleans (from PHI) – sardonic
43. Minnesota - aberg
44. Indiana (from ATL) - JJ1986
45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
46. Orlando – Athletic Supporter
47. Sacramento - smileyy
48. LA Clippers
49. San Antonio – Quaker
50. Indiana – JJ1986
51. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
52. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135
55. New York – JC and NJ
56. LA Clippers
57. New Orleans – sardonic
58. Golden State - sardonic
59. Toronto
60. Sacramento - smileyy

Transactions:
MEM #39, Josh Jackson, Tyler Johnson
PHO Derrick Favors

MEM #23, Derrick Favors, Tony Bradley
UTA Mike Conley

NOP #16 (from ORL), #24 (from PHI), #42 (from PHI), ORL 2021 #1 (top-10 protected, then top-4, then unprotected), Mozgov (from ORL)
ORL J. Holiday (from NOP), J. Simmons (from PHI)
PHI Frank Jackson and Melvin Frazier(?) (from NOP), Fournier (from ORL)

NOP #32
PHO #39, Jahlil Okafor

WAS #17, #35
ATL #9

ATL Damontis Sabonis, #18
IND #9, #44

NOP #17
WAS #24, #32

POR Omari Spellman
ATL Skal Labissiere, #25

ATL 2020 2nd (protected 31-44 or 500K in 2025), rights to Cenk Aykol
PHO Skal Labissiere

IRL:
NOP #4, Ingram, Ball, Hart, future 1sts and swaps
LAL Anthony Davis
   4041. Booey Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:49 PM (#5853293)
The delicate relationship between Houston Rockets stars James Harden and Chris Paul has been termed “unsalvageable” and the star players want a divorce, league sources told Yahoo Sports.


Hate to side with Paul, but Harden blowing up CP3's kitchen and not owning up to it WAS kind of a d!ck move...
   4042. sardonic Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:58 PM (#5853297)
Hate to side with Paul, but Harden blowing up CP3's kitchen and not owning up to it WAS kind of a d!ck move...


I laughed.

EDIT: The only thing that could have made that commercial better would have been Harden flopping to the ground as he protested "That's not me!"
   4043. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 18, 2019 at 05:04 PM (#5853300)
@Oriole Tragic, sorry, looking for a late 1st/early 2nd.

@mike f, I would love 31. What can I interest in. Please take a gander at my roster, filled with gems. Lance Thomas and Trier can both provide serviceable bench minutes for next year's playoff bound Nets.
   4044. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 18, 2019 at 05:10 PM (#5853303)
EDIT: The only thing that could have made that commercial better would have been Harden flopping to the ground as he protested "That's not me!"
Ha! Legit LOL from that one.
   4045. aberg Posted: June 18, 2019 at 05:21 PM (#5853304)
I wonder if the Celtics would be interested in Paul. Grizzly Haggard could get close to matching salary, and they still have a decent number of assets that now won't be traded for Davis. Brown and General Hospital for Paul? CP3, Smart, Tatum, Morris, Horford.
   4046. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 18, 2019 at 05:29 PM (#5853306)
Personally I wouldn't touch Chris Paul and his contract with a 40 foot pole. I think he's done. And a done but dramatically overpaid Chris Paul is just about the last person short of Dwight Howard Himself that I'd want in my locker room.

But presuming for the moment that I'm wrong, you know who would be a really fascinating spot for him, if they could acquire him, which they can't, but it would be really fun if they could? The Lakers.
   4047. Master of the Horse Posted: June 18, 2019 at 05:44 PM (#5853311)
I don't think Paul is done and certainly by the numbers he's not done but it seems like the trend of him running down come playoff time is fairly strong. So unless you can convince him to do the manage minutes thing and have a guy where the dropoff to 'not Chris Paul' is not terrible why spend all that cash? And whatever else it takes to get him?

Feel bad for the guy because he was and is a great player.
   4048. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 18, 2019 at 06:03 PM (#5853317)
Before I pick, anyone wanna trade up?
   4049. Oriole Tragic don't want me here no more Posted: June 18, 2019 at 06:17 PM (#5853321)

@Der-K how about something around Derrick Favors? Still only 27, still really good (tied his career-high 21.8 PER in 2018), and he's under contract for 17MM in 2019...which you can waive before 5 July!
   4050. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 18, 2019 at 06:27 PM (#5853326)
Point guard is entering a bit of a weird phase in the NBA, as the old guys like Paul fade out. There just aren't really many good young point guards. If you look at 2013 onwards, almost none of the best players drafted have been point guards -- which I think is part of why people are all excited about Trae Young and Morant. To be fair, the rise of positionless basketball has changed the game a lot, but look at the top 10 WS from the 2013-2015 drafts:

2013: Giannis, Gobert, S. Adams, Mason Plumlee, Porter, McCollum, Olynyk, Dieng, Oladipo, Zeller
2014: Jokic, Capela, Dwight Powell, Jerami Grant, Aaron Gordon, Randle, Embiid, Nurkic, Smart
2015: Towns, M. Turner, Harrell, WTCS, Nance Jr, Richardson, Richaun Holmes, Porzingis, Kaminsky, Delon Wright

The only guys who could even remotely be considered point guards on those lists are Oladipo and Wright, and Oladipo is more than a bit of a stretch. For whatever reason there seemed to be this point guard drought -- WS is not that great a metric as evidenced by some of these names, but if you look at guys under 29 as of the start of next season by any lens, it's slim pickings. Irving is 27, Simmons is 23, and then you have guys like Fox and Jamal Murray who it's still not really clear what they'll be (hell, that's true of Simmons also). Unless I missed someone, there is just this whole age group of point guards missing.
   4051. Booey Posted: June 18, 2019 at 06:40 PM (#5853328)
Unless I missed someone, there is just this whole age group of point guards missing.


Maybe that's why so many seem higher on D'Lo than the stats suggest they should be?
   4052. sardonic Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:19 PM (#5853334)
Maybe it's a bit of arbitrary endpoints/just a weird blip? Damian Lillard was drafted in 2012, and in 2016 you get Jamal Murray, Dejounte Murray, Malcolm Brogdon and whatever Ben Simmons is. So it's really that three year time period.

Also there are some cromulent point guards not on those lists, like Dennis Schroeder (2013), Elfrid Payton (2014), Spencer Dinwiddie (2014), 2019 ALL STAR D-Lo (2015), Terry Rozier (2015) who are taking up about 4 starting spots between them.
   4053. Thok Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:25 PM (#5853338)
I'm not exactly sure who would decline a Russell Westbrook/Chris Paul challenge trade.

If somebody actually has an interesting proposal for Westbrook, I'm listening. But I expect to hear crickets.
   4054. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:31 PM (#5853339)
I'm not exactly sure who would decline a Russell Westbrook/Chris Paul challenge trade.
both. HOU would want more value; OKC wouldn't throw away the guy who chose to stay.
   4055. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:39 PM (#5853341)
The thunder would hang up so fast...

Houston isn't getting any value from CP.

...

Major change in the Al Horford situation:
Per source close to Horford, his side is no longer discussing a new 3-year deal to stay with the Celtics. He is expected to sign a 4-year free agent contract elsewhere...
Story to come.


Stein RTed this.
   4056. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:39 PM (#5853342)
Maybe that's why so many seem higher on D'Lo than the stats suggest they should be?


I'm not sure why I still don't totally hate the idea of Jazz signing him if they can't get Conley. I basically agree with tship and even in his big breakout year Nets were barely better with him on than off the court. But he's also just 22 and I think Pelton has hammered home in my mind that point guards do tend to take longer to develop.
   4057. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:40 PM (#5853344)
Shams:
The Boston Celtics are preparing for strong scenario that All-Stars Kyrie Irving and Al Horford will leave as free agents, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.


Woj:
Boston and Al Horford had discussed contract scenarios, but the gulf is too great for sides to believe they can close on a new deal now, league sources tell ESPN. Horford is prepared to enter the free agency to find a three or four year deal elsewhere.


/Bullsfanwhohatestheceltics
   4058. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:44 PM (#5853345)
My immediate response is to feel happy for Horford -- I would love to see him on a bona fide contender next season, so long as it's not the Lakers or the Sixers or Golden State (none of those teams seems likely, obviously). Seems like the Celtics need to be aiming to peak a couple of years from now,* and Horford's only got so many good years left.

I reserve the right to be more upset about this later, of course.

* Clearly, Horford leaving makes this a lot more true, but it might have already been the case (and perhaps factored into the gulf in the negotiations that Woj is reporting).

Edit: alternatively --
The Celtics could now create $32.7 million in cap space to pursue a max-level free agent, though they'd have to consolidate (and/or draft-and-stash) their three first round picks. A fascinating and pivotal summer approaches for the Celtics.
   4059. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:46 PM (#5853347)
Maybe it's a bit of arbitrary endpoints/just a weird blip? Damian Lillard was drafted in 2012, and in 2016 you get Jamal Murray, Dejounte Murray, Malcolm Brogdon and whatever Ben Simmons is. So it's really that three year time period.


Oh, it's definitely a weird blip / random small sample thing, I'm not saying there was something in the water during that time period or whatever. But it kind of produces weird dynamics around the point guard market, which is probably going to get a guy like Brogdon overpaid.
   4060. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:46 PM (#5853348)
Thanks, Oriole, but I’m loaded with “favors types” in Sabonis and Collins and able to take on money right now.

Atlanta selects F Nassir Little. I feel like this might be a bad pick - there’s a lot about him that screams tweener - but he has the athleticism to succeed as a wing on defense and I think he can learn to shoot.

At this point, here's the Hawks depth chart:
C Sabonis / Len / Bol / Plumlee
F Collins /
F Bembry / Reddish / Little
G Huerter / Bazemore / Crabbe
G Young / Adams

--


1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball - Ja Morant, G, Murray State
3. New York – JC and NJ - RJ Barrett, F, Duke
4. New Orleans (from LAL) - sardonic - Jarrett Culver, G Texas Tech
5. Cleveland - Harlond - DeAndre Hunter, F, UVA
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic - Coby White, PG, UNC
7. Chicago - Moses - Darius Garland, G, Vanderbilt
8. Atlanta - Der-K - Cam Reddish, F, Duke
9. Indiana – JJ - Brandon Clarke, F/C, Gonzaga
10. Atlanta - Der-K - Bol Bol, C, Oregon
11. Minnesota - aberg - Nickeil Alexander-Walker, G, Virginia Tech
12. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - Sekou Doumbouya, F, Limoges CSP
13. Miami – Mouse – Jaxson Hayes, C, Texas
14. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Romeo Langford, G, Indiana
15. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - Grant Williams, F, UT
16. New Orleans (from ORL) – sardonic - Goga Bitadze, C, Mega Bemax
17. New Orleans (from ATL via WAS) - sardonic - Rui Hachimura, F, Gonzaga
18. Atlanta (from IND) – Der-K - Nassir Little, F, UNC
19. San Antonio – Quaker ON THE CLOCK
20. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
21. Oklahoma City – Thok
22. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
23. Memphis (from UTA) – Willard Baseball
24. Washington (from PHI via WAS) – Dandy Little Glove Man
25. Atlanta – Der-K
26. Cleveland - Harlond
27. Brooklyn – mike f
28. Golden State - sardonic
29. San Antonio – Quaker
30. Milwaukee – Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw

31. Brooklyn – mike f
32. Washington (from PHO via NOP) – Dandy Little Glove Man
33. Philadelphia- 57i66135
34. Philadelphia- 57i66135
35. Washington (from ATL) - Dandy Little Glove Man
36. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
37. Dallas - stevegamer
38. Chicago - Moses
39. Memphis (from NOP via PHO)– Willard Baseball
40. Sacramento - smileyy
41. Atlanta - Der-K
42. New Orleans (from PHI) – sardonic
43. Minnesota - aberg
44. Indiana (from ATL) - JJ1986
45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
46. Orlando – Athletic Supporter
47. Sacramento - smileyy
48. LA Clippers
49. San Antonio – Quaker
50. Indiana – JJ1986
51. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
52. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135
55. New York – JC and NJ
56. LA Clippers
57. New Orleans – sardonic
58. Golden State - sardonic
59. Toronto
60. Sacramento - smileyy

Transactions:
MEM #39, Josh Jackson, Tyler Johnson
PHO Derrick Favors

MEM #23, Derrick Favors, Tony Bradley
UTA Mike Conley

NOP #16 (from ORL), #24 (from PHI), #42 (from PHI), ORL 2021 #1 (top-10 protected, then top-4, then unprotected), Mozgov (from ORL)
ORL J. Holiday (from NOP), J. Simmons (from PHI)
PHI Frank Jackson and Melvin Frazier(?) (from NOP), Fournier (from ORL)

NOP #32
PHO #39, Jahlil Okafor

WAS #17, #35
ATL #9

ATL Damontis Sabonis, #18
IND #9, #44

NOP #17
WAS #24, #32

POR Omari Spellman
ATL Skal Labissiere, #25

ATL 2020 2nd (protected 31-44 or 500K in 2025), rights to Cenk Aykol
PHO Skal Labissiere

IRL:
NOP #4, Ingram, Ball, Hart, future 1sts and swaps
LAL Anthony Davis
   4061. Quaker Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:53 PM (#5853350)
I'll take PJ Washington for the Spurs
   4062. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:56 PM (#5853351)
I'll take PJ Washington for the Spurs


I almost took Washington for the Pistons. Going from the Fake Pistons to Fake Spurs is a great boost for Fake PJ's prospects going forward.
   4063. jmurph Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:03 PM (#5853353)
Super, super bummed about the Horford news. It's the first swing and miss this summer that's actually upset me (they'll miss Kyrie, obviously, but that situation is just more complicated).

Terrified that D'Angelo Russell is going to be walking through that door. I really hope not.
   4064. sardonic Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:04 PM (#5853354)
I was looking at PJ as well vs. Rui Hachimura. Wished he shot a tiny bit better, but not a lot separating the prospects of those two IMO.
   4065. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:04 PM (#5853355)
I don't know, if I were a fake prospect, I'd be trying to get myself to a fake team managed by Moses or Der-K.
   4066. jmurph Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:08 PM (#5853356)
My immediate response is to feel happy for Horford -- I would love to see him on a bona fide contender next season, so long as it's not...

And I totally agree with this, as well. Definitely hope he lands with someone like the Clippers and not with someone I don't like.
   4067. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:10 PM (#5853357)
The Clippers would be my first choice, I think. I could probably enjoy rooting for him on the Bucks, too.

Meanwhile:
Lakers are trying to expand Anthony Davis trade and create ability to open max salary slot on July 6, sources tell @BobbyMarks42 and me. Lakers offering contracts of Mo Wagner/Jemerrio Jones/Isaac Bonga to additional teams, so LA can satisfy CBA rules on creating $32M in space.
   4068. Moeball Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:11 PM (#5853358)
Ok I'm really puzzled by the Irving and Horford stuff. Honestly, where are they going to go that's a better situation than where they're already at? Seriously, does Kyrie think being the #1 guy on the Nets is going to be better than being the #1 guy on the Celtics? He'll get to start his vacations sooner at the end of each season, that's for sure, but is that really a benefit he wants? And what the heck does Horford expect to get out of this? Nobody can say they're chasing rings because they're already on a contending team with a good coach. I really don't understand this. What am I missing?
   4069. jmurph Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:14 PM (#5853359)
Ok I'm really puzzled by the Irving and Horford stuff. Honestly, where are they going to go that's a better situation than where they're already at? Seriously, does Kyrie think being the #1 guy on the Nets is going to be better than being the #1 guy on the Celtics? He'll get to start his vacations sooner at the end of each season, that's for sure, but is that really a benefit he wants? And what the heck does Horford expect to get out of this? Nobody can say they're chasing rings because they're already on a contending team with a good coach. I really don't understand this. What am I missing?

Eh I think they're both pretty straight forward, aren't they? Kyrie's decision seems based on fit/team culture/his teammates, and Horford looks around, sees a lot of uncertainty on a team that isn't going to be anywhere near a favorite next year, and has an opportunity for one more big 4 year payday on a contender. Both seem totally fair and logical to me. I disagree with Kyrie's assessment of the situation but, crucially, my opinion super doesn't matter.
   4070. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:17 PM (#5853360)
Generally agree with 4069. Also, Irving grew up in the New York area and may want to play there in part for that reason.

The early reporting is that Horford wants more money than the Celtics are willing to pay.

If both of them leave, it doesn't seem at all like a given that Brooklyn will be worse than Boston next year.
   4071. jmurph Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:21 PM (#5853364)
I am (unironically) glad that the league seems to have decided to completely not care about tampering anymore. It makes for a much more interesting pre-free agency period!
   4072. tshipman Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:51 PM (#5853384)
I have a confession...I still like Cam Reddish. I feel like I've been peer pressured out of my feelings for him.


I can sympathize. I've always kind of likd DLo and was excited to see him linked to the Wolves, and then discussion here has really made me reconsider. I'm being DLo-shamed online.


Shame is a good impulse here.
   4073. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:55 PM (#5853388)
Zach Lowe:
Just spoke to Daryl Morey. He reiterated there has been no trade demand from Chris Paul. "Tweet that I said that. Print it. Tweet it twice."
   4074. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:55 PM (#5853389)
Lakers offering contracts of Mo Wagner/Jemerrio Jones/Isaac Bonga to additional teams, so LA can satisfy CBA rules on creating $32M in space.
Yet another reason to not have traded Zubac for no good reason whatsoever.
   4075. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 18, 2019 at 09:01 PM (#5853392)
He'll get to start his vacations sooner at the end of each season

The Nets with Kyrie definitely can get to the 2nd round.

If both of them leave, it doesn't seem at all like a given that Brooklyn will be worse than Boston next year.

Right, it's a given the Nets will be better.
   4076. The Mighty Quintana Posted: June 18, 2019 at 09:11 PM (#5853395)
Wow - looks like these three Celtics picks might stick on the roster...so I better make 'em count!!

Chuma Okeke - Auburn

Tore his ACL in tourney, so will have to wait on him a bit, but he can shoot it.



   4077. JJ1986 Posted: June 18, 2019 at 09:19 PM (#5853398)
Kyrie seems like a guy who wants out of any situation that's not to his liking instead of trying to make it better. That's fine, but it probably means he won't be happy anywhere for very long and I think he probably makes a terrible team leader. I will be surprised if he goes to the Nets and plays with just their current roster because it seemed like he was unhappy playing with 'kids' in Boston and wanted at least one of his peers on the team. Although, adding either KD or Jimmy Butler would just be compounding guys who are never happy in the locker room.
   4078. The Mighty Quintana Posted: June 18, 2019 at 09:23 PM (#5853399)
1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball - Ja Morant, G, Murray State
3. New York – JC and NJ - RJ Barrett, F, Duke
4. New Orleans (from LAL) - sardonic - Jarrett Culver, G Texas Tech
5. Cleveland - Harlond - DeAndre Hunter, F, UVA
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic - Coby White, PG, UNC
7. Chicago - Moses - Darius Garland, G, Vanderbilt
8. Atlanta - Der-K - Cam Reddish, F, Duke
9. Indiana – JJ - Brandon Clarke, F/C, Gonzaga
10. Atlanta - Der-K - Bol Bol, C, Oregon
11. Minnesota - aberg - Nickeil Alexander-Walker, G, Virginia Tech
12. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - Sekou Doumbouya, F, Limoges CSP
13. Miami – Mouse – Jaxson Hayes, C, Texas
14. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Romeo Langford, G, Indiana
15. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - Grant Williams, F, UT
16. New Orleans (from ORL) – sardonic - Goga Bitadze, C, Mega Bemax
17. New Orleans (from ATL via WAS) - sardonic - Rui Hachimura, F, Gonzaga
18. Atlanta (from IND) – Der-K - Nassir Little, F, UNC
19. San Antonio – Quaker - P.J. Washington, F, Kentucky
20. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Chuma Okeke, F/G , Auburn
21. Oklahoma City – Thok - ON THE CLOCK
22. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
23. Memphis (from UTA) – Willard Baseball
24. Washington (from PHI via WAS) – Dandy Little Glove Man
25. Atlanta – Der-K
26. Cleveland - Harlond
27. Brooklyn – mike f
28. Golden State - sardonic
29. San Antonio – Quaker
30. Milwaukee – Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw
   4079. aberg Posted: June 18, 2019 at 09:25 PM (#5853401)
Boston and Al Horford had discussed contract scenarios, but the gulf is too great for sides to believe they can close on a new deal now, league sources tell ESPN. Horford is prepared to enter the free agency to find a three or four year deal elsewhere.


Horford demanded Tatum and the Grizzlies pick. Ainge lowballed him.

Atlanta selects F Nassir Little. I feel like this might be a bad pick - there’s a lot about him that screams tweener - but he has the athleticism to succeed as a wing on defense and I think he can learn to shoot.


FWIW, I have read in multiple places that he has been lights out shooting in workouts. Obviously very different than doing it in games, but his reputation before getting to UNC was that he was a very good shooter, then he couldn't shoot (in a role he hadn't played before), and now he can supposedly shoot again.

Terrified that D'Angelo Russell is going to be walking through that door. I really hope not.


Upon re-re-re-examination of DLo, I think this thread might be a little too hard on him. There are definitely things that don't look good- namely the horrible defensive on/off numbers and the lack of getting to the rim- but he also showed real progress in some important areas as a 22 year old last year. He had his best eFG of his career on his highest usage. Maybe getting his 3pt% up to 37% (on lots of attempts) was a fluke, but he was ~35 the first two seasons before a bad 3rd season. His assist percentage was a career high by a pretty large margin and his turnover rate was a career low, so it's not just making a few more threes. If nothing else, shooting a bunch of threes at a decent clip and making some plays without turning the ball over makes him something of an evolved player stylistically.

RPM doesn't hate him, either. He's a mediocre 21st in the rate version of the stat, but clustered around guys like Fox, Rubio, Murray, Dragic. He was 16th in the counting version. That's not a max player, but he's an NBA starter.
   4080. Thok Posted: June 18, 2019 at 10:13 PM (#5853424)
OKC takes Cameron Johnson, UNC

OKC desperately needs shooting, and I'd prefer somebody who can pretend to play a stretch 4 ala Ryan Anderson than another shooting guard; OKC is sort of in win now mode, and sort has to expect Terrance Ferguson to breakout anyways.
   4081. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 18, 2019 at 10:28 PM (#5853427)
Upon re-re-re-examination of DLo, I think this thread might be a little too hard on him.

I think the majority of the thread is solidly meh on him, too many people here have said a different version of this same thing. Tship, otoh...
   4082. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 18, 2019 at 10:30 PM (#5853428)
I like Cameron Johnson and his fit for OKC. Don't think there's any way he falls to the Bucks but he'd be good there too.
   4083. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: June 18, 2019 at 10:41 PM (#5853436)
The Mighty Quintana
Willard Baseball
Dandy Little Glove Man
Der-K
Harlond
mike f
sardonic
Quaker
Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw


Please. Someone. Trade with me.
   4084. Willard Baseball Posted: June 18, 2019 at 10:44 PM (#5853438)
It won't be Memphis. I am irrationally high on a guy for my pick, and if Boston takes him (they won't), I like another guy as well.
   4085. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 18, 2019 at 11:52 PM (#5853461)
Those workouts are part of why I took him (little).

I remember when UNC added Cam Johnson and I told all their fans would listen that he was a phenomenal pickup for them. I’m less sold on him as a pro but he should have a long career as a depth piece. One aspect of his game that I think is underrated, fwiw, is his passing - though I’m not sure he has the strength to play four.

I’m irrationally high on a pair of guys who are coming up (I bet Memphis takes the one I want more).
   4086. aberg Posted: June 19, 2019 at 12:50 AM (#5853477)
Somebody should take Thybulle soon.
   4087. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: June 19, 2019 at 01:04 AM (#5853478)
Russell: He is a guy who is not as good as his box score numbers, but he is 23, has good size, and a broad base of decent offensive skills that he could still improve on. The problems are that he is not great at any one thing, and he is not an awesome jock. But I think many teams would be fine plugging him as a starter for his age 23-26 seasons, depending on price, and a lot of guys are overpaid. Also, I hold to the idea that guys who can score have value, even if they are sometimes overrated.

Boston: Their situation is a good example of the "NBA is insane" stuff Lowe was talking about. Complex and difficult to build a champion.

RJ Barrett: Watching a little video and looking at his stats, he does remind me a bit of Wiggins. Given my track record as a scout, that probably means that he is the next Kobe Bryant instead.

Lakers: Nothing new to add, but I am struck by how many ways this could go. Could be great, could be ehh, could be a disaster. But, ultimately, they have LeBron James and Anthony Davis on the team, and even with James being old, they have LeBron James and Anthony Davis on the team. I will share more of my vapid meanderings when we see what the roster will actually be.
   4088. PJ Martinez Posted: June 19, 2019 at 06:26 AM (#5853488)
I think I agree with this:
I am (unironically) glad that the league seems to have decided to completely not care about tampering anymore. It makes for a much more interesting pre-free agency period!
And on that note, from Marc Stein:
The belief making the front-office rounds tonight is that Al Horford already knows there’s a four-year contract worth in excess of $100 million waiting out there for him June 30 .. knowledge that led to Horford’s talks with the Celtics dissolving
   4089. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: June 19, 2019 at 09:02 AM (#5853499)
4088- obviously the appearance of tampering here is apparent, but even without Horford having direct knowledge of the four year offer, doesn’t he profile as someone who would likely get such a contract in this market? There are quite a few teams that have cleared out cap space and the league is relatively open competition wise for the foreseeable future, and Horford, although on the older side, is really good. I’m thinking the offer is from the Nets by the way.
   4090. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2019 at 09:18 AM (#5853504)
I’m thinking the offer is from the Nets by the way.

I wouldn't think Horford would sign up for the Kyrie Experience again given some of the things that came out last year, but who knows. It's also totally possible the media never quite had that right.

but even without Horford having direct knowledge of the four year offer, doesn’t he profile as someone who would likely get such a contract in this market?

I'm honestly not sure? He just turned 33. I think it has to be the right fit- win now, but also maybe money coming off the books over the course of that 4 years?

For the record, in a world in which Boston was just basically running it back (keeping Kyrie, letting Morris and Rozier go), I would have gladly signed up for 4/100+ for Horford. I don't know that it would have made sense in the latter half of the contract, but a. he's good now and vital to what they were doing and b. he's one of my favorite Celtics ever, so there's that.
   4091. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2019 at 10:25 AM (#5853516)
Umm, what? Kyrie to Brooklyn not a done deal?
Chris Montano @gswchris
Woj says that if Nets don't land another star with Kyrie that they'll just keep D'Angelo Russell instead. Brooklyn isn't sold on Kyrie's ability to run a team alone.
   4092. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 19, 2019 at 10:26 AM (#5853517)
Umm, what? Kyrie to Brooklyn not a done deal?

This next couple of weeks is going to be bananas.
   4093. JJ1986 Posted: June 19, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5853519)
I read that as keep DLo to go along with Kyrie. The Nets would then have a team where 5 of their 6 best players are guard-sized.
   4094. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2019 at 10:34 AM (#5853520)
I read that as keep DLo to go along with Kyrie.

Doesn't seem that was the indication, but this is of course twitter quotes of a Woj TV spot so who the hell knows.
   4095. sardonic Posted: June 19, 2019 at 10:38 AM (#5853521)
4088- obviously the appearance of tampering here is apparent, but even without Horford having direct knowledge of the four year offer, doesn’t he profile as someone who would likely get such a contract in this market? There are quite a few teams that have cleared out cap space and the league is relatively open competition wise for the foreseeable future, and Horford, although on the older side, is really good. I’m thinking the offer is from the Nets by the way.


Also, 4-years and $100M isn't what it used to be -- it's not anywhere close to a max offer, especially for a 10 year vet like Horford. Capela imo isn't nearly as good, and is in the middle of a 5-year, $90M deal signed when he was an RFA. Drummond signed for 5/$127M, Gasol signed for 5/$113M at age 30 in 2015, Love signed for 4/$120M last year.

Horford is a bit older than those guys, but on the other hand he's probably as good or better than a lot of them at the point when they signed the contract, and the cap has gone up since some of those deals were signed.
   4096. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 19, 2019 at 10:52 AM (#5853525)
Love signed for 4/$120M last year.

I feel like I've completely forgotten about both him and that deal.
   4097. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2019 at 11:04 AM (#5853531)
Capela imo isn't nearly as good, and is in the middle of a 5-year, $90M deal signed when he was an RFA. Drummond signed for 5/$127M, Gasol signed for 5/$113M at age 30 in 2015, Love signed for 4/$120M last year.

It should probably be noted that all of those teams then set about trying to move those contracts (some immediately, some only eventually, like Gasol).
   4098. sardonic Posted: June 19, 2019 at 11:18 AM (#5853535)
It should probably be noted that all of those teams then set about trying to move those contracts (some immediately, some only eventually, like Gasol).

No doubt, but if I'm Horford and I like money, I'm thinking: "Now it's my turn!" And damn if the man hasn't earned that right. In the right situation he'd even be worth it the first couple years at least. I love the idea of pairing him with Kawhi on the Clippers.
   4099. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2019 at 11:22 AM (#5853537)
No doubt, but if I'm Horford and I like money, I'm thinking: "Now it's my turn!" And damn if the man hasn't earned that right.

Oh definitely, of course. I hope he gets it.
   4100. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2019 at 11:22 AM (#5853538)
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