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Tuesday, April 16, 2019

OT - NBA thread (Playoffs through off-season)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and this one only cares about the NBA thread and the Cubs so I have no idea what the rest of the website cares about.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 16, 2019 at 02:18 PM | 6552 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   6201. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: July 19, 2019 at 04:04 PM (#5863285)
Flip!
   6202. jmurph Posted: July 19, 2019 at 04:09 PM (#5863287)
I would probably phrase it as, "if every player in the league went into a giant re-draft, what would be your draft order, not considering contracts?"

For just 19-20, or going forward indefinitely?
   6203. aberg Posted: July 19, 2019 at 04:17 PM (#5863288)
For just 19-20, or going forward indefinitely?


Indefinitely.
   6204. Booey Posted: July 19, 2019 at 04:27 PM (#5863293)
Indefinitely.


Hmmm. That's a way different and tougher project than just ranking the top 30 players, then. Age would be critical. Someone like Zion - who wouldn't crack my top 30 list of the BEST players for 2020 - might outrank LeBron.
   6205. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: July 19, 2019 at 04:52 PM (#5863298)
I'd like that one, or the top 30 for next year. Either could be fun. Might actually be more fun to do a draft (that would also takes up tons of time), because then you might have some people trying to build a 2019 contender, others thinking more long term.

---

Nick Nurse threw out the first pitch, and just sang the 7th inning stretch at Wrigley. Lifelong Cubs fan from Iowa, they says.
   6206. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 19, 2019 at 05:40 PM (#5863309)
Someone like Zion - who wouldn't crack my top 30 list of the BEST players for 2020

nah.

zion is built in the same mold as lebron, ben simmons and blake griffin. these guys are huge, powerful and athletic in a way that allows them to come into the league fully formed, from day one. there are always adjustments that have to be made, development that will happen down the line, but zion will be a fringe all-star on day one, and he'll get better from there.

or maybe he'll be thomas robinson. who the hell knows, really?
   6207. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: July 19, 2019 at 05:45 PM (#5863311)
Someone like Zion - who wouldn't crack my top 30 list of the BEST players for 2020

nah.

zion is built in the same mold as lebron, ben simmons and blake griffin. these guys are huge, powerful and athletic in a way that allows them to come into the league fully formed, from day one.


I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and call it a joke, but for anyone not in on it neither Simmons or Griffin were anywhere near the top 30 in the NBA the season after they were drafted.
   6208. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 19, 2019 at 05:58 PM (#5863314)
Flip!


Saunders!
   6209. Booey Posted: July 19, 2019 at 07:15 PM (#5863326)
Was LeBron f'n James even a top 30 player his rookie year? He didn't crack the top 20 in any of the advanced stats.

Rookies are almost never top 30 players. Someone like Shaq and Duncan might prove me wrong a couple times per decade, but overall I think it's a fairly good bet to never place a rookie that high.
   6210. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 19, 2019 at 07:46 PM (#5863336)
The season just needs to start already. It's maddening that we still have 3 months to go.
two things:
1: literally noone wants the NBA season to be longer. stop it.

2: the best basketball of the year is on the deuce right now. i for one could not be more excited for the matchup between levance fields and ali farokhmanesh that we might see (fingers crossed) in round 2.
   6211. smileyy Posted: July 19, 2019 at 09:53 PM (#5863362)
I've enjoyed every Seattle Storm game I've been to...even the one they won(!) without Sue Bird, Breanna Stewart and Jewel Loyd
   6212. Harlond Posted: July 19, 2019 at 10:10 PM (#5863365)
I would also be up for a top player re-ranking. I would probably phrase it as, "if every player in the league went into a giant re-draft, what would be your draft order, not considering contracts?"
Have we ever drafted actual teams? You know, a snake draft where you end up with a roster of maybe ten players? Maybe followed by some sort of tournament where we set out a matchup, and every drafter not involved in the matchup votes on which team they think would win the matchup, until there's a champion? That might take three months!
   6213. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: July 19, 2019 at 10:24 PM (#5863367)
Auction drafts are always far more interesting and fun than ordered drafts.

If there were no max contract but there was a hard cap, how much of your cap would you be willing to devote to Giannis?
   6214. King Mekong Posted: July 20, 2019 at 09:09 AM (#5863413)
I like the auction idea. Not sure how we would do it though. What about a snake draft to build a starting five and then runs sim to see who would win.
   6215. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 20, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5863436)
Korver to MIL (frank mason on a 2-way there as well. Apparently mason has yet to play in the G; that’s weird)
   6216. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: July 20, 2019 at 02:25 PM (#5863466)
I like the auction idea. Not sure how we would do it though. What about a snake draft to build a starting five and then runs sim to see who would win.



Well, give everyone a set pool of money. Auction is once around (starting order random), whoever bids first in a round can bid twice, last player outbid gets to start following round. Players drafted in descending order of last year's PER (or stat of choice).
   6217. JJ1986 Posted: July 20, 2019 at 03:35 PM (#5863483)
I think an auction draft would be pretty hard to complete here unless we set a time and tried to get it all done at once.
   6218. spivey Posted: July 20, 2019 at 04:20 PM (#5863489)
Open to some of the draft ideas. I'd do a ranking thing, but finding a balance between one year and career makes it harder, and if it's just one year and just top ~30, I think everyone's lists are going to look very similar.

Excited about the Korver signing for the Bucks. He can really light it up and with his length and the rest of the Bucks' length I think he can be hidden pretty well against everyone but some of the most ISO heavy west teams.
   6219. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 21, 2019 at 04:00 PM (#5863623)
I would enjoy reading about a draft or auction, but I am busy enough and not knowledgeable enough that I really can't participate meaningfully.
   6220. Harlond Posted: July 21, 2019 at 09:32 PM (#5863668)
Well, it says something that it never occurred to me that ignorance should stop me from participating. :(
   6221. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: July 22, 2019 at 07:06 PM (#5864006)
Duncan's a Spurs assistant coach now. Pretty neat.
   6222. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 22, 2019 at 08:27 PM (#5864027)
Duncan's a Spurs assistant coach now. Pretty neat.
fun fact:
the spurs are now being investigated for cap circumvention.
   6223. RJ in TO Posted: July 23, 2019 at 10:55 AM (#5864138)
ATTN: steagles
Ben Simmons hits a three!
   6224. JC in DC Posted: July 23, 2019 at 11:41 AM (#5864161)
I'm not following any of this beyond the name's pulling out, but what's the story on all the guys refusing to play for Team USA? Just a coincidence? Common occurrence that's being made into a drama? Pop-haters? Trump-haters? Something else?
   6225. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: July 23, 2019 at 11:56 AM (#5864169)
Good question. Derozan just pulled out too, and he was a replacement for someone else. They're getting desperate:

Shams Charania
Boston’s Jaylen Brown and New York’s Julius Randle have been added onto USA Basketball’s training camp roster for World Cup, league sources told @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. Team USA assembling young, talented squad comparable to 2010 gold medal team.


Also, Shams, stick to scooping.
   6226. jmurph Posted: July 23, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5864197)
Having the World Cup the year before the Olympics seems like a bad idea.
   6227. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 23, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5864201)
The future is now for franchises across the NBA map. Which one has put together the best group of players under the age of 25? We rank every team’s collection of young’uns.
they boast an ostensibly talented young core that, the optimistic thinking goes, can mature into the next Knicks playoff team. The Knicks were even favored in Las Vegas to win the summer league title. (They did not.)

I wasn’t convinced about that optimism. In a recent staff survey, I noted that “maybe half the league has a better foundation of under-25 players” than the Knicks. Conceivably, every team that consistently picks near the top of the draft should have at least one or two promising young players. Where does New York’s young core stand among them? We can try to quantify an answer to that question.


23. Washington Wizards
WAR: 16.5 | Best Under-25 Player: Thomas Bryant (7.1)

The results of Washington’s five first-round draft selections after picking Bradley Beal no. 3 overall in 2012:

2013: Used on Otto Porter Jr., who was traded last trade deadline for two expiring contracts and a future second-round pick

2014: Traded for Marcin Gortat

2015: Used on Jerian Grant, who was traded on draft night for Kelly Oubre Jr., who was traded last season for half a season of Trevor Ariza

2016: Traded for Markieff Morris

2017: Traded for Bojan Bogdanovic

And that’s how a team turns half a decade of first-round picks into precisely zero players on a present-day roster in dire need of some young talent.
Besides Barrett, the only Knicks first-rounders still with the team are Frank Ntilikina, who has the worst career shooting percentage among active players (minimum 750 attempts), and Kevin Knox, who has the second-worst career shooting percentage among active players. Knox in particular stands out in a negative way: He projects as the worst NBA player over the next five seasons, with a befuddling minus-11.6 WAR
Andrew Wiggins (6.8), worst of all, doesn’t even qualify as one of the three best young players on his own team.
In the entire NBA, only three players project for more WAR over the next five seasons than Doncic.
Ball’s projection is among the most curious on this list; CARMELO thinks he’s a future All-Star. While his first two seasons offer some evidence to push back against this prediction, the drama surrounding the former Laker might have masked his more positive traits: Ball is an excellent distributor with impressive defensive numbers, so even if he’s not shooting well he can still contribute in multiple facets of the game. For New Orleans, Ball and Jrue Holiday could form the league’s best defensive backcourt duo from Day 1.


   6228. JC in DC Posted: July 23, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5864209)
Not good for the Knicks. I'm down on Knox. If part of success involves imposing your will on your competitors, Knox seems to have ZERO of that in him. He's got plenty of length and athleticism and some solid skills, but man, does he look passive. I hope I'm wrong.
   6229. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 23, 2019 at 01:36 PM (#5864219)
I'm not following any of this beyond the name's pulling out, but what's the story on all the guys refusing to play for Team USA? Just a coincidence? Common occurrence that's being made into a drama? Pop-haters? Trump-haters? Something else?

half of the NBA was eligible for free agency this summer. that's more stressful than people realize, so i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of guys would prefer to decompress rather than going right back into a competitive environment.

relationships are probably pretty strained after everything that happened this summer. harden probably doesn't want to see chris paul; lebron probably doesn't want to see kawhi; kyrie doesn't want to see tatum or brown; draymond probably doesn't want to see durant; butler probably doesn't want to see wiggins; conley probably doesn't want to see mitchell.


if i was picking team USA, given these (or similar) constraints, i'd want to pick something like this roster:

G: d.augustin, f.vanvleet
W: d.booker, j.brown, o.porter, k.anderson, s.dinwiddie, j.richardson, j.winslow, m.morris
B: k.olynyk, m.plumlee

a roster like that gives you:
a bunch of versatile (and unselfish) wings.
a #### ton of length/defensive ability.
enough veteran leadership (augustin, morris, olynyk, plumlee)
noone who's played fewer than 3 NBA seasons
2 pure PGs to keep everyone happy.


obviously those aren't the best players we could bring to the table, but i think that team wipes the floor against just about anyone in the world.
   6230. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: July 23, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5864224)
According to Newsbreaker Tweets, everyone that drops out of Team USA is dropping out for some noble reason. Every after-thought that gets added is being added because they are super awesome.

   6231. jmurph Posted: July 23, 2019 at 01:58 PM (#5864227)
You can't be serious with that team.

Also Olynyk is Canadian.
   6232. aberg Posted: July 23, 2019 at 02:20 PM (#5864245)
You can't be serious with that team.

Also Olynyk is Canadian.


Ok, fine, put Okafor on there instead.
   6233. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 23, 2019 at 02:40 PM (#5864249)
Sure, Dewayne Dedmon would listen if Team USA called.
   6234. JJ1986 Posted: July 23, 2019 at 02:43 PM (#5864250)
Since when is Spencer Dinwiddie a wing?
   6235. jmurph Posted: July 23, 2019 at 03:12 PM (#5864260)
Since when is Spencer Dinwiddie a wing?

You hate to cut into DJ Augustin's minutes at the point.
   6236. Booey Posted: July 23, 2019 at 03:30 PM (#5864267)
Stigs, were you deliberately trying to build the best team with no stars that you possibly could?
   6237. Booey Posted: July 23, 2019 at 03:32 PM (#5864270)
And the international teams have improved enough that no, a team full of American role players would not win it all.
   6238. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: July 23, 2019 at 05:20 PM (#5864313)
Well, it says something that it never occurred to me that ignorance should stop me from participating. :(


Harlond, New York Knicks, a marriage made in heaven!
   6239. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: July 23, 2019 at 06:02 PM (#5864323)
I'm not following any of this beyond the name's pulling out, but what's the story on all the guys refusing to play for Team USA? Just a coincidence? Common occurrence that's being made into a drama? Pop-haters? Trump-haters? Something else?



I may be missing something, but I figured it was just "load management + this is not the Olympics."

It won't happen, but I think it would be cool if they went back to college guys. USA as underdogs in basketball for a change.



   6240. aberg Posted: July 23, 2019 at 06:20 PM (#5864326)
It won't happen, but I think it would be cool if they went back to college guys. USA as underdogs in basketball for a change.


Maybe a more workable version of that would be guys on rookie deals, or guys 23 and under. I would very much enjoy a roster like:

G- Fox, Young, Ja
W- Tatum, Murray, Mitchell, Brown
B- Zion, Turner, Allen
   6241. Harlond Posted: July 23, 2019 at 10:00 PM (#5864385)
Harlond, New York Knicks, a marriage made in heaven!
Ouch.

But hey, the idea of drafting/auctioning a team seemed to draw some interest, but nothing was settled. Is the idea dead, or are there enough people interested in some iteration of the idea to move forward?
   6242. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 23, 2019 at 11:48 PM (#5864421)
Stigs, were you deliberately trying to build the best team with no stars that you possibly could?
it was more of a spitball kind of thing. the first iteration had MCW, nerlens noel, jeremy grant and matisse thybulle, so this one was better than that, but it could probably be improved in various ways.
And the international teams have improved enough that no, a team full of American role players would not win it all.
a lot of international teams have the same issues as team USA. ben simmons isn't playing; kristaps isn't playing; and i'm sure there are others who will sit out.

"international" players are closer to american players than ever before...however, that talent isn't clustered within any single country, and most of the countries that do have a cluster of talent, do not spread that talent across a variety of positions.

only ESP, CAN, AUS and FRA can put out an entire starting 5 with NBA talent, and some of the lineups get kind of ugly towards the 4th and 5th starters.
ESP: rubio/abrines/hernangomez/mirotic/ibaka
CAN: SGA/murray/wiggins/powell/olynyk
AUS: mills/dellavadova/jingles/simmons/bolden
FRA: okobo/fournier/luwawu/batum/gobert


Also Olynyk is Canadian.
well, cross him off the list then.
   6243. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:04 AM (#5864536)


With no Olynyk, why not three Plumlees?
   6244. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:47 AM (#5864562)
Since when is Spencer Dinwiddie a wing?
he's a 6'6 secondary perimeter initiator. with the way i characterize players, that means he's a wing.
With no Olynyk, why not three Plumlees?
because two of them aren't good. i'm not sure which are the bad ones, but i'm pretty sure only one of them is better than mediocre.

i guess i'd lean towards replacing olynyk with someone like cody zeller or meyers leonard.
it was more of a spitball kind of thing. the first iteration had MCW, nerlens noel, jeremy grant and matisse thybulle, so this one was better than that, but it could probably be improved in various ways.

to get back to this for a second:

my original idea was to put as much ball pressure as possible on opposing perimeter initiators because i think 80+% of them aren't good enough to break it. press full court, trap half court, blitz every ball screen...basically build a team USA that plays like VCU, because that team can win an olympic gold medal without top 50 talent.

when team USA gets into trouble, it's because they try to stitch together 3rd and 4th tier "stars" (harrison barnes, julius randle, eric gordon, dangelo russell, devin booker, jayson tatum, donovan mitchell) who think they're good enough to show up and win (they're not), who aren't willing/capable of doing the kind of defensive work that can make up for a narrower talent gap, and who don't have enough experience and/or awareness to know that things are going wrong and to make whatever adjustments are necessary.


what separates team USA from the rest of the world is a depth of unselfish, versatile, defensive-minded wings/forwards who are happy to do the dirty work on both ends, but still have enough functional skill to run a successful offense when called upon.

there's room for a few james hardens or carmelo anthonys in this kind of model, but the bulk of team USA should be oriented towards a VCU style of play.
   6245. Rally Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:07 PM (#5864572)
Since when is Spencer Dinwiddie a wing?


I can see he wasn't born until 1993, but every time I see the name I think he should have played in the 1970s. I would have had no problem believing that "Spencer Dinwiddie" started his career in the ABA with the multi-colored ball, played a few years in the NBA after the merger, and played his entire career with a big 'fro. The name just fits.

   6246. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 24, 2019 at 02:22 PM (#5864648)
korkmaz stays with philly, 2 yrs at the min
   6247. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 24, 2019 at 03:12 PM (#5864671)
korkmaz stays with philly, 2 yrs at the min
if i was him, i'm pretty sure i wouldn't want to go back to turkey right now, either.


he's only 22 years old, he has good size and he's supposed to be a good shooter. shooting might be the sixers' biggest weakness right now, so if this furkan guy can make 3s, i'm pretty sure the sixers will find regular playing time for him.
   6248. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 24, 2019 at 03:51 PM (#5864690)
korkmaz: i don't know if we know what he can do as of yet. i wish they'd have him play in delaware for a month, get a baseline.
---
jakarr sampson to indy for the minimum
just an energy/defense guy (despite technically averaging 20 pts a game last year!), but versatile and improving. like him.
   6249. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 24, 2019 at 03:54 PM (#5864691)
pau - 1 year with POR
   6250. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 24, 2019 at 04:19 PM (#5864700)
I guess Jakarr Sampson is one of the best among the myriad players the Sixers cycled through during the "intentionally lose every game" era. Up there with Richaun Holmes. Not at the level of Dewayne Dedmon but way above Arnett Moultrie, Henry Sims and K.J. McDaniels.

I wish Tony Wroten had panned out.
   6251. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 24, 2019 at 05:48 PM (#5864721)
i saw your comment and thought how it was unfortunate for henry sims that he was a destitute man's greg monroe at the very moment the league moved away from greg monroe types.
related: monroe is gonna play in germany next season.
   6252. aberg Posted: July 24, 2019 at 06:19 PM (#5864729)
i saw your comment and thought how it was unfortunate for henry sims that he was a destitute man's greg monroe at the very moment the league moved away from greg monroe types.


Interestingly, Sims succeeded Monroe as the passing big man in JTIII's Prince-town offense.
   6253. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 24, 2019 at 06:47 PM (#5864732)
I guess Jakarr Sampson is one of the best among the myriad players the Sixers cycled through during the "intentionally lose every game" era. Up there with Richaun Holmes. Not at the level of Dewayne Dedmon but way above Arnett Moultrie, Henry Sims and K.J. McDaniels.

I wish Tony Wroten had panned out.

moultrie was pre-hinkie (mostly).

my personal favorite churn-victims:
hollis thompson -- i'm not sure why he didn't catch on somewhere else. he has great size for a wing and he shot 39% from beyond the arc across 4 seasons.
brandon davies -- i know exactly why this guy didn't catch on, but he was a hell of a lot better than i expected him to be while he was a sixers.
thomas robinson -- he averaged 17 and 15 per 36 while he was a sixers. that's good production.
christian wood -- i'm still a believer.


   6254. tshipman Posted: July 24, 2019 at 10:28 PM (#5864769)
Best news about next season I've seen:

Richard Deitsch

Verified account

@richarddeitsch
Follow Follow @richarddeitsch
More
Via sources: TNT will no longer air the Players Only NBA broadcast. Turner Sports will likely do some Players Only content but as far as games for the 2019-20 season, the Players Only broadcast on TNT is no more.

   6255. smileyy Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:58 PM (#5864793)
What do people think of the Elam(sp?) ending being used by TBT this year?
   6256. spivey Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:27 AM (#5864815)
TBT used the Elam ending last year too, right? I like it, though I don't think the end of game scenario in the NBA is *so* bad that they're going to do something this wild, even though it would be on the whole a better product.

Watching these teams is a trip down memory lane of when I used to care about college basketball. The level of play doesn't seem as high as I'd want.
   6257. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5864820)
they did and experimented with it the prior year, as i recall
   6258. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:58 AM (#5864862)
Dragan to mil for 2 yr
   6259. jmurph Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:14 PM (#5864870)
Dragan to mil for 2 yr

Man he's still young. Will turn 22 just after the season starts.

I've maybe literally never seen him play, but this seems like as good a spot as any to see if he has anything at all.

EDIT: Also hooooooooooo boy those Phoenix drafts were something.
   6260. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:20 PM (#5864872)
I really liked him as a prospect, felt about him like I did about Porzingis (who I also really liked), in part because I thought he'd get stronger than he has and become considerably more aggressive.
Oops.
   6261. spivey Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5864894)
A lot of the Phoenix draft picks were risky/raw players, but they were mostly drafted within the range of the mocks. It's hard to say how much is them being unlucky and the draft being a crapshoot, and how much is they're awful at developing talent.
   6262. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 01:02 PM (#5864896)
They definitely are pretty bad at developing talent, but I'm curious as to that interplay as well.
   6263. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: July 25, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5864898)
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania 4m
Los Angeles Clippers’ Montrezl Harrell and Denver Nuggets’ Mason Plumlee have been added onto USA Basketball’s training camp roster for World Cup.


stiggles!
   6264. JJ1986 Posted: July 25, 2019 at 01:23 PM (#5864900)
I haven't watched a World Cup game since 2002 (or maybe 2006), but I think it would be more interesting if the USA sent a team of pros in their first 4 years. We already send a team of dominant MVP-types to the Olympics; do we need to do it twice?
   6265. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 25, 2019 at 01:48 PM (#5864910)
I haven't watched a World Cup game since 2002 (or maybe 2006), but I think it would be more interesting if the USA sent a team of pros in their first 4 years. We already send a team of dominant MVP-types to the Olympics; do we need to do it twice?
a few things:
1: the NBA wants to get the olympics's money grubbing hands out of their pocket, so they're trying to supplant the olympics with their own "basketball world cup whatever". it's not gonna work, but it is a clear priority for them.

2: sending dominant MVP types can grow the sport internationally. mason plumlee isn't getting anyone wet.

3: pros in their first 4 years have more to lose than anyone else. they haven't gotten their first contract extension yet, so if one of them happens to have a paul george type injury, it could cost them hundreds of millions of dollars in future earnings.

EDIT: Also hooooooooooo boy those Phoenix drafts were something.
must read:
The Suns started a full-scale rebuild at the same time as the Sixers, but they’ve made so many unpredictable turns that it sometimes appears as if they have no guiding process at all. That’s wildly unfair, but the contrast between these teams — and the gut punches they’ve suffered over the last week — provides a window into the unmatched influence of owners in charting a team’s course.
Knight is a high-character guy in the same 25-and-under age range as Bledsoe, Markieff Morris, Alex Len, T.J. Warren, Archie Goodwin, Devin Booker, and the rest of the young core
   6266. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 25, 2019 at 01:51 PM (#5864911)
What do people think of the Elam(sp?) ending being used by TBT this year?
the biggest positive is that it takes away the incentive for late game fouling.

the biggest negative is that it's an awful gimmick that would ruin any sense of statistical continuity if it were implemented by an established league.

   6267. aberg Posted: July 25, 2019 at 02:06 PM (#5864920)
Ok, instead of all young guys, how about a roster of guys who are 35+?

G- Devin Harris, Jamal Crawford
W- Redick, Iguodala, Korver, Vince
B- Chandler, ZBo, Frye

Lebron and Melo qualify this year, too. You could throw in Wade as a recently retired player. I love this idea. It would be so fun to see these guys play.
   6268. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: July 25, 2019 at 02:30 PM (#5864935)
If we're bringing in retirees, I think Joe Johnson would still have a good shot at making that roster. He was productive to the end of his NBA career, and he's absolutely wrecking the rest of the Big3 competition.
   6269. Rally Posted: July 25, 2019 at 02:56 PM (#5864949)
Let's see that old team take on Kyrie Irving, Nate Robinson, Reggie Miller, Lisa Leslie, Chris Webber, and Shaq.
   6270. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 25, 2019 at 03:08 PM (#5864956)
Team Joe Johnson

G - John Jenkins, Jarrett Jack
W - Joe Johnson, Josh Jackson, Justin Jackson, James Jones, Jalen Jones
B- James Johnson, Jaren Jackson

Too bad Jerome James is a bit old to provide a true center option.
   6271. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:12 PM (#5865002)
Team Joe Johnson

G - John Jenkins, Jarrett Jack
W - Joe Johnson, Josh Jackson, Justin Jackson, James Jones, Jalen Jones
B- James Johnson, Jaren Jackson

Too bad Jerome James is a bit old to provide a true center option.
that team needs jared jeffries.
   6272. Scott Lange Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:52 PM (#5865024)
the biggest positive is that it takes away the incentive for late game fouling.

the biggest negative is that it's an awful gimmick that would ruin any sense of statistical continuity if it were implemented by an established league.


You chop off a few minutes and add back whatever time is needed to reach 8 points more than the leader has. That's calibrated to roughly balance out. Sure, it would be maybe raise or lower the total scoring in the league by like a percentage point (at most), but who cares? There are changes with bigger impacts on statistical outputs all the time. Heck, shots used to be worth 2 points; now almost half of them are worth 3!

I like the Elam ending a lot. It would take some getting used to, but eliminating the nightmare slog of late game fouling is a massive plus. Can you imagine if we were all used to a world without 15 minutes of intentional fouls at the end of games, and then someone suggested adding it?
   6273. aberg Posted: July 25, 2019 at 06:56 PM (#5865037)
I'm a fan. They should at least try it out in the G-Leauge to see if they can iron out any unforeseen problems. The thing I like about this version is that it seems more friendly to commercial breaks than most of the alternatives I've seen. A friend of mine has been on a soapbox for years calling for games to just be a series of "sets" to 21 and play best of 5 or best of 7, almost like tennis. That would be too radical of a departure to me, but the NBA has thrived by embracing evolution in rules and styles of play.
   6274. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 08:34 PM (#5865073)
Trey Burke to PHI, which was smart on their part.

I like the Elam Ending, though I’d be receptive to hearing tweaks to it.
   6275. smileyy Posted: July 25, 2019 at 09:25 PM (#5865087)
The Elam ending would be the best thing to ever happen to college basketball.
   6276. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:24 PM (#5865097)
Trey Burke to PHI, which was smart on their part.
WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

burke, over the last 3 years:
37% 3P
54% TS
24% USG
3:1 AST:TO ratio

i'm not actually sure he's better than tj mcconnell, but in terms of style of play, the sixers needed a guy who can come off the bench and get buckets and that's what burke does. i know i'm usually pretty reserved in my opinions, but this is a huge get for the sixers.



this season (rotation in bold; COOKED in caps; < 500 MP entering the season in italics) :
starters: simmons / richardson / tharris / horford / embiid
bench: G burke, G milton, W thybulle, W zhaire, W ennis, W korkmaz, F scott, F bolden, F KOQ

last season (rotation in bold; COOKED in caps; < 50 GP entering the season in italics) :
starters: simmons / REDICK / covington / saric / embiid
bench: G mcconnell, G fultz, G shamet, W zhaire, W korkmaz, F chandler, F bolden, F muscala, F AMIR


one of those rosters is built to contend for a title; the other one was a colossal ####### waste of a season.
   6277. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 25, 2019 at 10:34 PM (#5865103)
oh...and how could i possibly forget about the sixers now also having raul neto. this is just an embarrassment of riches.
   6278. Famous Original Joe C Posted: July 26, 2019 at 07:28 AM (#5865137)
one of those rosters is built to contend for a title


Usually title contenders have someone you'd trust to run your offense in the last three minutes of a tight playoff game.
   6279. spivey Posted: July 26, 2019 at 08:50 AM (#5865149)
I like the Burke add for the 6ers way more than the Bender add for Milwaukee.
   6280. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: July 26, 2019 at 09:06 AM (#5865152)
Joe, hope you're doing well. I'm actually in London this week, and staying in Tower Hill near that pub we went to.
   6281. tshipman Posted: July 26, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5865326)
This is something I've been wondering about a lot as well.

Is The NBA’s Small-Ball Revolution About To End?


There are actually two concurrent trends in the NBA.

One of them we talk a lot about: the rise of 3p shooting.
One of them we don't: the rise of defensive rebounding. I wonder if there's an opportunity to really bludgeon teams with rebounding, particularly now that Kevin Durant and Steph Curry play on different teams.
   6282. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: July 26, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5865332)
the rise of defensive rebounding
Interesting. What is changing about defensive rebounding? It's not something I've either looked into or heard discussed.
   6283. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: July 26, 2019 at 05:18 PM (#5865337)
Usually title contenders have someone you'd trust to run your offense in the last three minutes of a tight playoff game.


But enough about Milwaukee. :)
   6284. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 26, 2019 at 06:10 PM (#5865357)
One of them we don't: the rise of defensive rebounding. I wonder if there's an opportunity to really bludgeon teams with rebounding, particularly now that Kevin Durant and Steph Curry play on different teams.
who the #### is 'we'? i've been leading this charge for years.
Interesting. What is changing about defensive rebounding? It's not something I've either looked into or heard discussed.

nothing has really changed for defenses. what's different is that offenses are using 4- and 5-out lineups which leave noone in the paint to get an offensive rebound.

the sixers stumbled ass-backwards into something interesting two years ago. they'd play two designated shooters (redick, belinelli, covington, ilyasova), with simmons and 2 other forwards who would just attack the offensive glass (ilyasova, richaun holmes, trevor booker, saric, amir johnson). it was ugly as hell...but also reasonably effective, especially considering that it was primarily used to steal some rest for embiid.
   6285. tshipman Posted: July 26, 2019 at 06:19 PM (#5865361)
Interesting. What is changing about defensive rebounding? It's not something I've either looked into or heard discussed.


2019: 77.1% DRB rate
2014: 74.5% DRB rate
2009: 73.3% DRB rate
2004: 71.4% DRB rate
1999: 69.8% DRB rate
1994: 67.8% DRB rate

Over the last 25 years, this has risen by 10%, and on a pretty consistent rate.
   6286. tshipman Posted: July 26, 2019 at 06:27 PM (#5865364)
nothing has really changed for defenses. what's different is that offenses are using 4- and 5-out lineups which leave noone in the paint to get an offensive rebound.


This isn't true. The change has existed before 4 and 5 out offenses were common.
   6287. Fourth True Outcome Posted: July 26, 2019 at 06:34 PM (#5865368)
nothing has really changed for defenses.

I'm not sure that's entirely true; the Rivers/Thibodeau Celtics defenses schematically abandoned offensive rebounds in favor of getting back on defense. I agree spread offenses and jumpshooting trends are larger causes of this, but defensive schemes probably have a role here too. I doubt Thibs was the first to do it, but I have no idea how you'd track that sort of thing (other than looking at defensive ratings and OREB rates and those correlations, but I'm at work so I'm not going to try to run it down right now.)
   6288. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 26, 2019 at 06:56 PM (#5865371)
I think it’s mostly defenses getting back in transition
   6289. tshipman Posted: July 26, 2019 at 06:57 PM (#5865373)
I'm not sure that's entirely true; the Rivers/Thibodeau Celtics defenses schematically abandoned offensive rebounds in favor of getting back on defense. I agree spread offenses and jumpshooting trends are larger causes of this, but defensive schemes probably have a role here too. I doubt Thibs was the first to do it, but I have no idea how you'd track that sort of thing (other than looking at defensive ratings and OREB rates and those correlations, but I'm at work so I'm not going to try to run it down right now.)


Pop teams, and Popovich disciples, have all largely eschewed offensive rebounding.

Last year the top 4 teams in DREB% were Milwaukee (Bud), Utah (Snyder), Orlando (Clifford) and San Antonio (Popovich). Three out of the 4 are out of the Pop coaching tree.
   6290. spivey Posted: July 26, 2019 at 07:12 PM (#5865380)
I think it’s mostly defenses getting back in transition

Natch. San Antonio's success for my adult life has basically come down to making you grind for every point. Limit 3s, fast breaks, and points (edit: I meant free throws).
   6291. tshipman Posted: July 26, 2019 at 07:29 PM (#5865388)
Natch. San Antonio's success for my adult life has basically come down to making you grind for every point. Limit 3s, fast breaks, and points (edit: I meant free throws).


Right, but the interesting thing to me is that it predates Pop. Like, in the heyday of Showtime, teams didn't get back on defense aggressively against the Lakers. They still went for the offensive rebound. Even the Doug Moe Denver Nuggets basically had an average defensive rebound rate.

That's completely changed, and it started happening before Pop entered the league.

Edit: and I will point out that it's also not just 3p shooting. The shorter 3p line in the 90s shows no impact to DREB rate.
   6292. CFBF's Overflowing Pathos Posted: July 28, 2019 at 02:43 PM (#5865742)
   6293. Tin Angel Posted: July 28, 2019 at 03:54 PM (#5865756)
Jeremy Lin seems to be a bad place.


Not sure how to feel about this...it sucks if you really want to play and can't find a spot. But he's made $53 million dollars in his career, just won a title sitting on the bench, and is not very good. If only all of our low points could be so "low." Having to retire at age 30 with tens of millions in the bank...must be rough. I can see why he's crying.
   6294. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 28, 2019 at 03:57 PM (#5865757)
Not sure how to feel about this...it sucks if you really want to play and can't find a spot. But he's made $53 million dollars in his career, just won a title sitting on the bench, and is not very good. If only all of our low points could be so "low." Having to retire at age 30 with tens of millions in the bank...must be rough. I can see why he's crying.
did he graduate from harvard, or did he just "attend"?

   6295. Thok Posted: July 28, 2019 at 07:54 PM (#5865827)
According to his wikipedia article, Lin earned a degree in economics (with a 3.1 GPA).
   6296. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: July 28, 2019 at 09:44 PM (#5865858)
Lowe and Windhorst on "tense" NBA Owners Meeting on FA:

In the midst of it, Rick Buchanan, the NBA's longtime general counsel, issued an evenhanded but sobering message to the room, multiple sources said.

Buchanan told the governors that as partners they were entitled to expect all teams to abide by a common set of enforceable rules for free agency -- and that the league office would come back with a proposal for a revised set of rules that would then be strictly enforced. He asked the group if they were comfortable with the league "seizing servers and cellphones," a line that stuck with many in attendance, according to sources who recounted the scene later.

Buchanan's tone was not threatening, or aggressive, sources say. He appeared to be offering guidance: This is what strict enforcement might look like.


link
   6297. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 29, 2019 at 10:00 AM (#5865914)
Lin has good reasons to be frustrated.
He's also had a tremendous career and, on the surface, life.

Still, give the man for feelings!

(If he'd take the minimum he's certainly still worth a spot.)
   6298. spivey Posted: July 29, 2019 at 10:11 AM (#5865920)
I'm just a small town pizza lawyer, but I think trying to handle the pre-free agency chatter from a technology standpoint just isn't going to work. The technology is too ubiquitous and it will be too hard to completely track.

I understand it sucks for the fans when a team's best player requests to be traded. But usually it's because the team is wasting that guy's career. I find it amusing that's been the narrative is it's unfair to the teams that this is happening so much, players signed a contract, blah blah blah. But the writers don't get bent out of shape on the player's behalf when they're traded. You think Chris Paul wants to be playing the end of his career in OKC? He didn't sign up for that.

Some of the big NBA writers, even guys like Zach Lowe, can sometimes come off like ownership mouthpieces.

Anyways, if both sides view this as an important issue, I think probably the best way to handle it is in the contract themselves.
   6299. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: July 29, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5865934)
did he graduate from harvard, or did he just "attend"?

A distinction without a difference, to people who want to talk about how they attended Harvard.
   6300. jmurph Posted: July 29, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5865935)
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