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Tuesday, April 16, 2019

OT - NBA thread (Playoffs through off-season)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and this one only cares about the NBA thread and the Cubs so I have no idea what the rest of the website cares about.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 16, 2019 at 02:18 PM | 6553 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   6401. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: August 06, 2019 at 11:25 AM (#5868720)
Well, you have a year to mentally prepare for your NBA bubble to burst.

Carter will play an NBA-record 22nd season, where he will spend a second straight year mentoring one of the NBA's youngest rosters, which includes seven players under 23 years old.

Carter will pass Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Willis and Robert Parish, all of whom played 21 NBA seasons.

If he plays in a game in 2020, Carter will be the first player in NBA history to appear in a game in four different decades, according to Elias Sports Bureau research.
   6402. Booey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 11:54 AM (#5868733)
NBA.com All-Decade teams (2009-10 to 2018-19). Rather than being strictly by position, they include 2 backcourt players and 3 frontcourt players.

1st Team:
Curry, Harden, LeBron, Durant, Kawhi

2nd team:
CP3, Westbrook, AD, Griffin, Carmelo

3rd team:
D-Wade, Kobe, PG-13, Aldridge, Giannis


Random thoughts and observations:

- The 1st team has 10 titles this decade between them, including the last 8 (2 of Curry's and Durant's are duplicative, of course)
- The 2nd team is the "underachiever team", with no titles between them and a lot of seasons where their team underperformed expectations
- Kawhi on the 1st team with just 3-AS seasons to this point seems like a bit of recency bias...

Who's on there that shouldn't be? Who should've been there that wasn't? Off the top of my head, I think I might switch Wade and Kawhi. D-Wade had 7 AS appearances in the decade (not counting the honorary one this past year), played in 4 Finals and won 2 titles (he's a tough one for these kinds of lists though since his best years were split almost evenly between the 2000's and 2010's). Meanwhile, Kawhi's incomplete career would look right at place on the 3rd team next to Giannis (just 3 AS appearances so far) and Kobe (4 "real" AS appearances in the decade, not counting the last 3 fanboy selections).
   6403. spivey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5868749)
I'm not sure Carmelo was ever really that good, and certainly hasn't been for a while. Giannis and Kobe didn't have enough good seasons for me. I'd take Lowry over Kobe, easily, as one example.
   6404. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 06, 2019 at 12:07 PM (#5868752)
The NBA offseason established a bunch of new story lines that require closer inspection. Throughout the next month-plus, we’re giving second thoughts to the most intriguing ones.

Today’s question: Are we sure the Sixers shouldn’t split up Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid?



this might the most pointless article that has ever been written.


   6405. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 06, 2019 at 12:35 PM (#5868772)
Kawhi's incomplete career would look right at place on the 3rd team next to Giannis
kawhi has been the best player on two different championship teams. his spot on the 1st team is earned.
Who's on there that shouldn't be? Who should've been there that wasn't?
kobe was only good for 4 of these 10 years.
melo...eh, i'm not gonna kick him while he's down.
aldridge? really?

i'll cosign the 1st team:
Curry, Harden, LeBron, Durant, Kawhi

my 2nd team:
CP3, westbrook, PG13, AD, marc gasol

3rd team:
kyrie, wade, manu, pau gasol, horford


a few details:
-- the biggest "snubs" from my teams are demarcus cousins, blake griffin, kyle lowry and mike conley.
---- i really wanted to fit in lowry, but kyrie's performance in the 2016 NBA finals is more important than anything lowry's done.

-- if i had to put a center on the first team, it'd be AD.
---- in that scenario, i think i'd bump durant to the 2nd team, rather than kawhi.
---- again, it comes down to the NBA finals performances, and kawhi outshines durant by that measure.

-- i'm really happy to get marc gasol and horford in there.
---- marc represents those 2010s MEM teams that were a pain in everyone's ass.
---- horford covers three different eastern conference finals appearances with ATL and BOS

-- pau gasol covers the early 2010s LAL teams.
---- he was as productive as kobe when those teams were good, and the tail of his career is less worthless.

-- team-wise, the biggest snubs:
---- CHI
-------- rose, butler and noah just weren't good enough to get on here.
---- POR
-------- aldridge just isn't at this level
-------- lillard doesn't have a signature moment/performance
---- DEN
-------- there just isn't room for millsap
-------- jokic (like embiid) doesn't have enough years under his belt.
---- UTA
-------- i was really close to putting favors on here, but the competition was just too strong.
---- DAL
-------- dirk's best years were just too far in the past.
-------- tyson chandler is a really interesting case. he was the backbone of DAL's defense when they won the title, then he went to new york and had some really great seasons. if he had gone somewhere relevant in the summer 2015, instead of going to PHO and dropping off the face of the earth, there's a strong chance he'd be on my 3rd team.
   6406. Booey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 01:17 PM (#5868808)
kyrie, wade, manu, pau gasol, horford


Did Wade or Ginobili play enough SF for this team to qualify under the rules they gave (2 backcourt players, 3 frontcourt players)? I'd call this a 3 guard team...

-- if i had to put a center on the first team, it'd be AD.
---- in that scenario, i think i'd bump durant to the 2nd team, rather than kawhi.
---- again, it comes down to the NBA finals performances, and kawhi outshines durant by that measure.


Kawhi over Durant for the decade is nuts, IMO. KD matches Leonard with 2 Finals MVP's, plus he's got a lot more AS seasons, regular season MVP, 4 scoring titles, etc.

lillard doesn't have a signature moment/performance


Well, he's ended 2 playoff series with a deep, buzzer beating 3. Those were pretty memorable.
   6407. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 06, 2019 at 01:25 PM (#5868814)
Seeing Kobe crack the list literally made me LOL.
   6408. Booey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 01:53 PM (#5868826)
Since I'm bored at work, here's my off-the-top-of-my-head teams for the other 2 decades I've been following the NBA, following the same guidelines as the previous team (2 guards and 3 forwards/centers, only performance in that decade counts)...

1990-1999:

1st team - Jordan, Stockton, Malone, Olajuwon, Robinson

2nd team - Miller, Payton, Pippen, Barkley, Shaq

3rd team - Drexler, Wilkins, Ewing, Kemp, Mullin

- I'm not trying to be fanboyish by putting both Stockton and Malone on the 1st team, but since they were basically playing every game every year, their overall value (WS) easily surpasses their competition. Plus the Jazz had the 2nd best record in the decade behind the Bulls (and they were a lot closer to #1 than they were to #3).
- I'm not very confident about some of the selections on my 3rd team. Should any of Mutombo, Mourning (only played 7 years in the decade), or Hill (5 years) be on there instead?

2000-2009:

1st team - Kobe, Nash, Duncan, Dirk, Garnett

2nd team - Kidd, Ray Allen, Shaq, Pierce, McGrady

3rd team - Iverson, Ginobili, Webber, VC, Pau Gasol

- Shaq deserves a 1st team somewhere, but his 14 AS caliber seasons were split exactly evenly between the 2 decades, and 7 great seasons isn't enough to supplant some tough competition in Malone/Robinson/Olajuwon or Duncan/Dirk/KG.
- Not very confident in my 3rd team again. Ginobili, Webber, and Gasol are guys who's best years were split almost evenly between the previous or next decade.

And again, both these teams are by memory. It's very possible - likely even - that I'm forgetting someone obvious.
   6409. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: August 06, 2019 at 04:00 PM (#5868896)
kawhi has been the best player on two different championship teams. his spot on the 1st team is earned.

A thing that has always irked me, but even moreso this offseason, is the strange insistence that Kawhi was the best player on the '14 Spurs. He wasn't. It was Duncan.

EDIT: [6408] I want to argue that Ewing and Pippen should switch spots, but I haven't really looked at it.
   6410. spivey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 04:07 PM (#5868898)
A thing that has always irked me, but even moreso this offseason, is the strange insistence that Kawhi was the best player on the '14 Spurs. He wasn't. It was Duncan.

Their entire offense also was heavily dependent on Tony Parker. The narrative was that Parker was the best player on the team, too, though the stats had it as Duncan because of his advanced defensive stats. Kawhi had a good finals. Danny Green also made about 5 3s a game in the finals, and everyone else made every shot they took. I mean, people are definitely taking a generous interpretation of what that year meant. Hell, I might argue that Ginobili was the best per-minute player on that team. That team didn't have any great player, they just peaked at the right time and had very perfect balance, and their deep rotation guys were way better than typical and most of them could do multiple things (like Diaw, that chunker, I love him).
   6411. spivey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 04:13 PM (#5868900)
- I'm not trying to be fanboyish by putting both Stockton and Malone on the 1st team, but since they were basically playing every game every year, their overall value (WS) easily surpasses their competition. Plus the Jazz had the 2nd best record in the decade behind the Bulls (and they were a lot closer to #1 than they were to #3).


That era really had a lot of 1 star teams. Man, the top guys were incredible and were all timeless talents, but looking down the roster of some of those Spurs/Rockets/Knicks teams is something.
   6412. jmurph Posted: August 06, 2019 at 04:20 PM (#5868902)
I definitely think Duncan's defense was widely underappreciated in those final few years as his minutes ticked down, but I'm not sure about the best all around player on the team. I probably agree with spivey's 6410.
   6413. Booey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 04:22 PM (#5868904)
A thing that has always irked me, but even moreso this offseason, is the strange insistence that Kawhi was the best player on the '14 Spurs. He wasn't. It was Duncan.


I was going to respond to dispute this too, arguing that he may have been their best player in the Finals, but not for the entire season...but when I actually looked up the advanced stats, I think there's a good argument that it's true. Kawhi leads the team in WS, WS/48, BPM, and VORP.
   6414. Booey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 04:32 PM (#5868906)
they just peaked at the right time


Maybe, but they were also the best team in the league in the regular season. Led the NBA with a 62-20 record, 61-21 pythag, and 8.00 SRS. Finished 3rd in DRTG and 7th in ORTG. They certainly weren't just a postseason hotstreak/small sample size fluke, like (arguably) the 2011 Mavs.

They and the 2004 Pistons are the main teams the 2020 Jazz should be using as a blueprint for building a championship caliber team without an MVP candidate.
   6415. spivey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 04:41 PM (#5868908)
Amusing fact about that Spurs team. They had 21 3pt attempts per game and were 16th in the NBA in volume. They shot 25/game last year and were last.

I know we've seen all of the stats, I just liked that one.

I was going to respond to dispute this too, arguing that he may have been their best player in the Finals, but not for the entire season...but when I actually looked up the advanced stats, I think there's a good argument that it's true. Kawhi leads the team in WS, WS/48, BPM, and VORP.

Even if he was (these stats are all fairly crude), it was very close. And I would argue it doesn't really matter. When people are saying it, ISTM they to be saying it as a legacy thing, and that should not be his legacy from that season. He wasn't a top 15 or even probably top 20 player. He just played on a team with a bunch of other guys around that same range, who all had skillsets that meshed very well, and let him focus on what he was good at. Kawhi was not capable of giving you crunch time offense at that point in his career. He was a good defender, and a board man.
   6416. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 06, 2019 at 04:41 PM (#5868909)
Kawhi over Durant for the decade is nuts, IMO. KD matches Leonard with 2 Finals MVP's, plus he's got a lot more AS seasons, regular season MVP, 4 scoring titles, etc.

all-star appearances, scoring titles and finals MVPs don't belong in this conversation.

kawhi shut down two dynasties (three, if you include blowing up SAS on the way out).
KD wasn't even the best player on his own team for the last 3 years.
A thing that has always irked me, but even moreso this offseason, is the strange insistence that Kawhi was the best player on the '14 Spurs. He wasn't. It was Duncan.

nah. that was true(ish) in 2013, but by 2014, kawhi's combination of defensive excellence and offensive efficiency made that team his.

his usage didn't ramp up until after winning that title, but he was already SAS's best player.
Well, he's ended 2 playoff series with a deep, buzzer beating 3. Those were pretty memorable.

#eastcoastbias
   6417. Booey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 04:42 PM (#5868910)
That era really had a lot of 1 star teams. Man, the top guys were incredible and were all timeless talents, but looking down the roster of some of those Spurs/Rockets/Knicks teams is something.


There wasn't much superstar movement back then, so to get 2 stars you generally had to draft and develop them both yourself, which is really hard. Probably not a coincidence that the 3 best overall records of the decade were 3 of the few teams that were able to do that: the Bulls (Jordan/Pippen), Jazz (Stockton/Malone), and Sonics (Payton/Kemp).
   6418. spivey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 04:43 PM (#5868912)
Maybe, but they were also the best team in the league in the regular season. Led the NBA with a 62-20 record, 61-21 pythag, and 8.00 SRS. Finished 3rd in DRTG and 7th in ORTG. They certainly weren't just a postseason hotstreak/small sample size fluke, like (arguably) the 2011 Mavs.


That's a good point, and I'm glad you corrected me. They were a great team that year and the year before. Their playoff/finals performance that year was obscene, though, and probably has to be considered playing at damn near the 100th percentile of their ability.
   6419. Booey Posted: August 06, 2019 at 04:48 PM (#5868914)
Even if he was (these stats are all fairly crude), it was very close. And I would argue it doesn't really matter. When people are saying it, ISTM they to be saying it as a legacy thing, and that should not be his legacy from that season. He wasn't a top 15 or even probably top 20 player. He just played on a team with a bunch of other guys around that same range, who all had skillsets that meshed very well, and let him focus on what he was good at. Kawhi was not capable of giving you crunch time offense at that point in his career. He was a good defender, and a board man.


I agree with all this. There's definitely some post-HOC rationalization in how people view that title WRT Kawhi nowadays.
   6420. Red Voodooin Posted: August 06, 2019 at 05:15 PM (#5868919)
Not that it is really germane to this discussion, but part of Kawhi's "legacy" is the missed free throw in 2013 (which led to Ray Ray etc). I'm pretty sure there's no other example of a "make free throw = win a championship... but he missed and they lost" in NBA history.
   6421. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: August 06, 2019 at 07:53 PM (#5868954)
Leonard/Legacy: I think it is worth noting that at the beginning of the decade, there was a second Kobe/Pau/Phil title, followed by the Nowitzki Mavs on their surprising run. Since then, there have been two times the trophy went to a team that was not Golden State or to a team that did not have LeBron James, and Leonard won the Bill Russell Award both times.
   6422. The Mighty Quintana Posted: August 06, 2019 at 08:07 PM (#5868960)
I'm old, so I'll do 80's

1980-1989:

1st team - Magic, Isiah, Bird, Erving, Malone

2nd team - Moncrief, DJ, Worthy, McHale, Jabbar

3rd team - Gervin, 'Nique, B. King, Dantley, Parish
   6423. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: August 06, 2019 at 09:22 PM (#5868983)
6422: Like some of it, but Michael Jordan was in the NBA from 84-85 and was pretty much the best player in the league every year from 1986 to 1993. So I think that he has to replace Thomas on the first team.
   6424. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: August 06, 2019 at 11:39 PM (#5869010)
2000-2009:

1st team - Kobe, Nash, Duncan, Dirk, Garnett

2nd team - Kidd, Ray Allen, Shaq, Pierce, McGrady

3rd team - Iverson, Ginobili, Webber, VC, Pau Gasol

I'd suggest replacing Iverson, Webber, and Pau with Chauncey Billups, LeBron, and Ben Wallace. The Pistons made 6 straight ECFs that decade, ended the Shaq/Kobe title run, and took one of the best Spurs teams to 7 games. They need to be represented, and in any event, I think we tend to go overboard with the concept that the Pistons had no stars. Billups especially deserves to be here, probably above the 3rd team. He has a decent case for 1st team alongside Kobe, as no other guard can match his combination of regular season and playoff performance. The case for LeBron in the 00s is basically the same as the case for MJ in the 80s. Missed a few years, but too good when he played to be left out.
   6425. Booey Posted: August 07, 2019 at 12:36 AM (#5869012)
#6424 - LeBron, d'oh! I swear I meant to include him when I was coming up with names in my head, and I knew I was missing someone(s) when I actually sat down to type them out. And yeah, Billups and Wallace are good choices that need to be there, too. I think I agree with all of your suggestions, except that I might dump Ginobili instead of Iverson, just cuz AI's peak was more centered in the decade and Manu missed the first few seasons (and Iverson had an MVP, several scoring titles, a lot more AS selections, etc).

WRT the Pistons, I don't think anyone thinks they had NO stars, just that they didn't have the MVP caliber superstar that most title teams do* (and Billups best years came AFTER their title season).


* Ditto with the 2014 champion Spurs and the 2020 champion Jazz.
   6426. Thok Posted: August 07, 2019 at 09:30 AM (#5869028)
3rd team - Drexler, Wilkins, Ewing, Kemp, Mullin


If you go just by the 90's, Mullin might be the third best player out of the Run TMC group. (He only had a 4 1/2 year peak, two of which were the 88-89 and 89-90 seasons; Richmond and Hardaway had more post TMC success.)
   6427. Booey Posted: August 07, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5869092)
If you go just by the 90's, Mullin might be the third best player out of the Run TMC group. (He only had a 4 1/2 year peak, two of which were the 88-89 and 89-90 seasons; Richmond and Hardaway had more post TMC success.)


True, but those guys are both guards and I needed another forward (or center).

But yeah, going just by memory, I wasn't very confident that anyone on my 3rd team definitely belonged other than Ewing and Drexler.
   6428. spivey Posted: August 07, 2019 at 12:31 PM (#5869138)
Yeah, the 90s seems weak. Nique and Mullin seem like more of their prime was in the 80s.

I'd maybe put Webber and Grant Hill in there. You're getting a lot of each of their best years, and I think they may/do both have higher primes than the older guys, and I definitely think their highs were higher in the 90s specifically.
   6429. Thok Posted: August 07, 2019 at 01:35 PM (#5869179)
Is there a good argument for putting Grant Hill above Alonzo Mourning that isn't "I don't want to list a fifth center for the 90's?"
   6430. Rally Posted: August 07, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5869185)
Erving first team for the 80's - He retired after 86-87 and was not an elite player the second half of the 80s. He's definitely first team 1970s if you count ABA. Otherwise he's a great example of the downside of doing this by end points of years ending in zero. He's first team NBA for the 76-85 decade.
   6431. GregD Posted: August 07, 2019 at 02:00 PM (#5869195)
Yeah the decade lists favor guys born mid decade so get the 25 to 35 age run in one intact decade and penalizes guys like Dr J born in a zero year (1950) who are too young for the start of one decade and too told for the end of the next.
   6432. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 07, 2019 at 09:54 PM (#5869386)
1st team - Magic, Isiah, Bird, Erving, Malone

2nd team - Moncrief, DJ, Worthy, McHale, Jabbar

3rd team - Gervin, 'Nique, B. King, Dantley, Parish
Adrian Dantley should be on that 2nd team; he was better than Worthy. Alex English should be in there somewhere. Gervin and Dr. J have endpoints problems. Bernard King shouldn't be on the list at all.

1st Team: Magic, Jordan, Bird, English, Malone

2nd Team: Moncrief, Thomas, Dantley, McHale, Jabbar

3rd Team: Cheeks, Drexler, Barkley, Worthy, Parrish
   6433. Booey Posted: August 07, 2019 at 10:29 PM (#5869395)
The Hoops Hype top 100 of the 21st century list continues...

To recap:

100. Serge Ibaka
99. Antoine Walker
98. Rudy Gay
97. Andre Drummond
96. Karl-Anthony Towns
95. Rudy Gobert
94. Nene
93. Shane Battier
92. Al Jefferson
91. Jason Richardson
90. Kyle Korver
89. David Lee
88. Sam Cassell
87. Joakim Noah
86. Michael Redd
85. Marcus Camby
84. Brandon Roy
83. Lou Williams
82. Hidayet Turkoglu
81. Rajon Rondo

And now...

80. Stephon Marbury
79. Richard Hamilton
78. Jamal Crawford
77. DeMar Derozan
76. Kemba Walker
75. DeMarcus Cousins
74. Richard Jefferson
73. Yao Ming
72. Gilbert Arenas
71. Jermaine O'Neal
70. Mike Bibby
69. Luol Deng
68. Carlos Boozer
67. Antawn Jamison
66. Metta World Peace
65. Andrei Kirilenko
64. Chris Webber
63. DeAndre Jordan
62. Baron Davis
61. John Wall
   6434. smileyy Posted: August 07, 2019 at 11:29 PM (#5869408)
Starbury has to be up there for "star" with the most disappointing career, right?
   6435. Booey Posted: August 07, 2019 at 11:42 PM (#5869410)
Not if you count his career in China!
   6436. JJ1986 Posted: August 08, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5869551)
DAJ is like 50 spots too high.
   6437. jmurph Posted: August 08, 2019 at 03:49 PM (#5869622)
I mean I'm all for summer time wasting to keep the NBA conversation alive, but that Hoops Hype list is just... blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. It's very hard for me to get excited about the relative merits of Andre Drummond and David Lee!
   6438. Booey Posted: August 08, 2019 at 04:44 PM (#5869639)
#6437 - Well, your first line explained my point behind it. ;-) And it will get more interesting when it starts getting into the actual superstars.

Edit: Plus this can settle the LBJ vs MJ GOAT debate once and for all...LeBron's entire career, vs Jordan's Wizard's years!
   6439. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: August 08, 2019 at 04:45 PM (#5869640)
superbeas gets a 5 game drug suspension
   6440. jmurph Posted: August 08, 2019 at 04:49 PM (#5869642)
Oh I wasn't blaming you booey! Just thinking maybe Hoops Hype should have gone with a top 50 or something. Don't force me to think about Antoine Walker's career!
   6441. Booey Posted: August 08, 2019 at 05:19 PM (#5869648)
Heh. Noted. Personally, I'm curious to see how many Jazz guys crack the list. We've already had Gobert, Big Al, Korver, Booze, and AK-47 (I'm not counting cameo Jazzmen like Richard Jefferson). I suspect DWill and Millsap will be on there soon, and unfortunately they'll probably be the last (again, not counting cameos like Joe Johnson, even though he was crucial to the 2017 team's playoff series win vs LAC in his one full season here).

Kinda sad that they might not have a top 50 player (Millsap MIGHT squeak in, but even then all of his AS seasons were with the Hawks).
   6442. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: August 08, 2019 at 05:26 PM (#5869652)
Similar to jmurph -- my takeaway from that list is that, over a 20 year period, there just aren't that many NBA players who matter.

I think of 61-100, the only ones who really matter are Yao (very short career), Webber (who obviously is missing some of his career in this accounting), and Towns (going forward). The other dudes are all fine and good and pretty useful but don't really matter to the fabric of the NBA.

I guess John Wall's contract matters to the fabric of the NBA.
   6443. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: August 08, 2019 at 05:58 PM (#5869663)
Rondo mattered for a few years, and then he started sandbagging regular season games and then he tore his ACL.

One sideplot I'll be tracking next season (I'm not going to pretend this is of universal interest: I'll happily cop to a homeric attachment to Rondo, even 5 years on) is whether he still matters in the playoffs: since leaving the Celtics, he's had two brilliant playoff games with Chicago, a historical pants-shitting of a series with Dallas, and a whole lot of long summer vacations.
   6444. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: August 09, 2019 at 01:12 AM (#5869749)
Rondo: He had the nice series when NO swept POR in the 2018 playoffs, and that is the only playoff series that the Pelicans won while Anthony Davis was in New Orleans. I think Rondo's new deal with the Lakers was a "star service" signing, like "fan service" in a MCU movie. Davis has not signed an extension here. Rondo will also run the point a lot when James sits/"load manages."

As to whether Rondo has anything left...not much. His D is bad, and he is out of place in today's 3-obsessed NBA. I said when they signed him last year that the Rondo and Stephenson deals had Magic's sensibilities written all over them, and I think that Rondo is still with the Lakers now mostly to make Davis more comfortable. Cousins has some of that going on as well, but he also may have some actual value on-floor.

That said, I think that both Cousins and Rondo are examples of guys that other players, at least some of them, like a lot more than fans/media do. Lonzo Ball talked a few times last year about how smart Rondo is and how much Ball learned from him, and I have seen some "Boogie is really a good guy" stuff over the years when players talk about him.
   6445. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: August 09, 2019 at 02:31 PM (#5869903)
I put some stock (not sure how much: there are clear deficits in both sample size and observability here) in the narrative that Rondo excels when given the chance to play the same team repeatedly, memorize their playbook in-depth, and talk his teammates through breaking the opponent's scheme. It certainly fits what I've seen watching his playoff runs. His (overstated but real) shooting deficits, lazy defense, and ball-hogging tendencies will certainly crop up throughout the regular season, though: the ability to adapt your game to an opponent is less useful when there's a new one almost every single night.

The obvious caveat: this is exactly the sort of vaguely-defined phenomenon that is most prone to confirmation bias, and Rondo is one of my very favorite players of all time.

Edit: just to be clear, I think everything rr said in 6444 is totally sound, and I largely agree. I think that that analysis is the correct one for the regular season; and though I think there's a solid chance he raises his game in the playoffs, it's hardly a guarantee at this point. His best days occurred in a much less shooting-oriented league, when he had a much bigger relative advantage in athleticism to create separation and elevate for clean looks near the rim.
   6446. tshipman Posted: August 09, 2019 at 04:58 PM (#5869970)
The issue with Rondo is that he's one of the worst defenders in the league. He's a perfectly okay offensive player who turns into a giant dumpster fire on defense.

You don't need to do a bunch of complicated analysis with Rondo: ever since 2011 he's made his teams worse on the defensive end, and since about 2014, he's been a disaster.
   6447. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 09, 2019 at 06:55 PM (#5869995)
the sixers just hired an assistant coach who is 6 months younger than al horford.
   6448. jmurph Posted: August 12, 2019 at 12:21 PM (#5870562)
From this, on Towns:
Towns had started to spread his wings after the mid-November trade that sent Jimmy Butler to the Sixers, but he reached a new level after the Wolves fired Tom Thibodeau in early January. In the 37 games Towns played under Wolves coach Ryan Saunders, he averaged 26.8 points (on a ridiculous 54/42/84 shooting split), 12.4 rebounds, 3.7 assists, and 1.3 blocks per game. The most eye-popping figure of the lot might be Towns’s accuracy from 3, hitting 42 percent on nearly five attempts per game.
   6449. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: August 12, 2019 at 12:35 PM (#5870566)
It’s almost like Towns is a generational offensive talent stifled by a dreadful coaching staff for his entire career.
   6450. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 12, 2019 at 12:42 PM (#5870573)
It’s almost like Towns is a generational offensive talent stifled by a dreadful coaching staff andrew wiggins for his entire career.
FTFY.

2019:
Age  G   MP  TSUSGOBPM DBPM  BPM
Karl
-Anthony Towns    23 77 2545 .622 28.9  4.8  2.0  6.8
Andrew Wiggins        23 73 2543 .493 24.4 
-1.7 -1.3 -2.9 


2018:
Age  G   MP  TSUSGOBPM DBPM  BPM
Andrew Wiggins        22 82 2979 .505 23.4 
-1.1 -1.4 -2.5
Karl
-Anthony Towns    22 82 2918 .646 22.9  4.4  1.1  5.5
Jimmy Butler          28 59 2164 .590 24.9  4.9  0.1  5.0 

2017:
Age  G   MP  TSUSGOBPM DBPM  BPM
Andrew Wiggins        21 82 3048 .534 29.0  0.2 
-2.9 -2.7
Karl
-Anthony Towns    21 82 3030 .618 27.5  4.7  0.2  4.9 

   6451. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 12, 2019 at 12:56 PM (#5870580)
i have no idea if BPM is meant to scale like this, but my read on the stats in [6450] is that when MIN chose andrew wiggins over jimmy butler, they lost ~8 points per 100 possessions.
   6452. jmurph Posted: August 12, 2019 at 01:50 PM (#5870611)
i have no idea if BPM is meant to scale like this, but my read on the stats in [6450] is that when MIN chose andrew wiggins over jimmy butler, they lost ~8 points per 100 possessions.

This isn't a thing that happened, but yes, I think we can all agree Jimmy Butler is better than Andrew Wiggins.
   6453. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 12, 2019 at 03:24 PM (#5870651)
This isn't a thing that happened, but yes, I think we can all agree Jimmy Butler is better than Andrew Wiggins.
sure, it wasn't a strict either/or situation, but yes, they did choose to pay wiggins at the cost of being willing/able to pay butler.



i'm pretty sure this is overly pessimistic, but now that the full schedule is out, i see the sixers sitting at 12-8 on december 1.
   6454. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: August 12, 2019 at 03:25 PM (#5870653)
Charania:

Sources: Marquee slate of NBA games on Martin Luther King Jr. Day, Jan. 20, for the 2019-20 season schedule most notably include:

Golden State vs. Portland, Lakers vs. Boston, Houston vs. Oklahoma City.
   6455. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 12, 2019 at 03:43 PM (#5870659)
I've been pretty lucky that NBA tends to schedule good matchups for the Jazz when I visit family, and they host the Blazers the day after Christmas this season.

And at least one of the Jazz games in Phoenix this season is on a weekend, making it more likely my wife can go with me.
   6456. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: August 12, 2019 at 03:44 PM (#5870660)
Hmmm. TOR @ MIN, January 18. Because of course I want to travel in the dead of winter from the freezing shores of Lake Ontario to ... Minneapolis.
   6457. spivey Posted: August 12, 2019 at 04:14 PM (#5870665)
I'm so geeked out about the schedule.
   6458. jmurph Posted: August 12, 2019 at 04:31 PM (#5870668)
Haberstroh's over/under locks:

Sixers over 55 wins
Nuggets over 52.5 wins
Pelicans over 39 wins

Clippers under 54.5 wins
Nets under 43.5 wins
Hawks under 33.5 wins
   6459. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: August 12, 2019 at 04:52 PM (#5870671)
Clippers under 54.5 wins

I hate to throw cold water on Steve Ballmer’s woo!-fest, but I’m still worried about Paul George’s short-term health. After undergoing surgery on both of his shoulders this summer, George stayed mum on his return timetable at the Clippers’ introduction presser. There are also murmurs that he won’t be back until November. For regular-season win projections, that’s not good news.

Beyond George’s return from double shoulder surgery, I think coach Doc Rivers will prioritize the postseason just like the Raptors did last season with Kawhi Leonard. While he may not miss 22 games like he did last season, I would expect the Clippers to be conservative when handling the face of their franchise. If Leonard plays half the team’s back-to-backs I’ll be stunned.

Yes, the Clippers won the offseason by getting two MVP candidates, but questions about their health make me nervous in the regular season. Postseason is a different story. I’m bearish on the Clippers, but that changes in May.


That screams hot take to me. For one (and he did write that before the schedule was out), the Clippers only play 13 B2Bs this year so that's probably not a big amount he'll miss. I know there's going to be a diff between East and West again this year, and he has the Sixers as a lock over 55 so he's not just high total averse. I absolutely would not expect the Nugs to win more than the Clippers, too.
   6460. aberg Posted: August 12, 2019 at 07:06 PM (#5870699)
That screams hot take to me. For one (and he did write that before the schedule was out), the Clippers only play 13 B2Bs this year so that's probably not a big amount he'll miss. I know there's going to be a diff between East and West again this year, and he has the Sixers as a lock over 55 so he's not just high total averse. I absolutely would not expect the Nugs to win more than the Clippers, too.


Also screams hitting a deadline. A lot of unders come down to health, so he's trying to make an educated guess on injury risks months before the games start.
   6461. JJ1986 Posted: August 12, 2019 at 07:36 PM (#5870713)
None of those scream 'lock' to me. Just looking at the board now, Dallas under is the only pick that I really like.
   6462. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: August 12, 2019 at 09:11 PM (#5870773)
Agree with 6461 and 6460. Haberstroh is a smart guy, so that seems like deadline/clickbait. I would not call any of those a "lock."
   6463. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: August 12, 2019 at 11:43 PM (#5870818)
Guys, we live in a world where a +420 upset is called "astronomical" on another thread on this board. English ain't what it used to be.
   6464. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: August 12, 2019 at 11:53 PM (#5870820)
I'm not sure where Haberstroh is getting his lines from, but using this article, this is what I'd go with if forced to pick three overs and three unders, in order of confidence:

Overs:
Toronto +45.5 -- might tear it down midseason, but I think even without Kawhi they are a big step up from teams like Orlando and Miami that are only rated a few wins lower
Denver +51.5 -- continuity and I don't think people realize how young Jokic and Murray are
Cleveland +24.5 -- this team is better than Washington (see below) and has enough NBA players that I think they can win 30ish games without too much going just right

Unders:
Washington -27.5 -- it looks like Beal will stay there, but he may be literally their only above replacement player; this team is worse than Cleveland and Charlotte (23.5)
Houston -53.5 -- I don't think Westbrook will improve the team on either end (won't use possessions efficiently) and Harden is due for an injury/regression to the mean
Lakers -51.5 -- I think to beat this they need LeBron coming back strong, some non-LeBron/AD guy posting a surprising season, and figuring out the mesh early enough to be strong in the regular season, which seems like a lot to parlay
   6465. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: August 13, 2019 at 01:28 AM (#5870836)
Over-unders:

Washington: I think they will move Beal and go about 17-65.
Lakers: I could see them winning anywhere from 45-57 games, but I think some people are selling James/Davis and several guys who can hit open 3s, plus maybe some good work from Cousins, a little short. Danny Green is 32, limited, and will not hit .455 from the arc again, but he is a great fit on a James/Davis team. Yes, James is old, but he is still James and he is still an excellent player. Davis will not be 27 until March, and he is probably the best two-way big in the game.
Clippers: I think they probably have the strongest overall roster in the West, but George may start the season on the IL.

Basically, I think trying to sort out who will win the most games in the West at this point is like trying to predict the best movies of 2022. I mentioned that in 2010, the entire Western Conference playoff field was between 50 and 57 wins. Portland, San Antonio, and OKC all won 50 and were seeded 6-8. Utah and Denver each won 53, and were 4-5. Phoenix won 54, Dallas won 55, and the Lakers won 57. It was actually almost that tight last year, going from 48 to 57.

This year, there are some decent teams 9-12, so I think the whole field could easily be between 47 and 55.
   6466. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 14, 2019 at 12:29 AM (#5871197)
oh my god.

i just saw a commercial for "don't google", in the wild. here's an abstract from one of the results when i googled "diabetes fournier commercial":

Newer Diabetes Drugs Linked to 'Flesh-Eating' Genital Infection ...
https://www.usnews.com › Civic › Health News
May 7, 2019 - SGLT2 inhibitors are a newer class of diabetes medications, introduced in 2013. ... Fournier gangrene occurred in 55 people taking these drugs ...
   6467. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: August 14, 2019 at 02:52 AM (#5871205)
'Flesh-Eating' Genital Infection


This has a lot of handle potential.
   6468. CFBF's Overflowing Pathos Posted: August 14, 2019 at 10:14 AM (#5871233)
This has a lot of handle potential.


Or a hell of a name for a punk band.
   6469. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: August 14, 2019 at 11:01 AM (#5871245)
Rumor is that the Nuggets might want to sign Bol Bol to a 2-way deal and that his camp is resistant. On that:
- He would the highest drafted guy to sign one of those deals (which pay way less than a min deal)
- Denver is one of only two teams not to have its own G League team (the other is Portland), which would make developing him, imo, a bit harder than it has to be if he is healthy enough to play, as he supposedly is.
   6470. Booey Posted: August 14, 2019 at 11:24 AM (#5871251)
It's certainly not as interesting as a flesh eating genital infection, but it's time...

...for another installment of the Hoops Hype Top 100 of the 21st century list. The Dubs dynasty and Grit N Grind are well represented here.

60. David West
59. Andre Miller
58. Zach Randolph
57. Lamar Odom
56. Draymond Green
55. Jason Terry
54. Derrick Rose
53. Rashard Lewis
52. Mike Conley
51. Jimmy Butler
50. Predrag Stojakovic
49. Tyson Chandler
48. Marc Gasol
47. Rasheed Wallace
46. Kevin Love
45. Paul Millsap
44. Kyle Lowry
43. Deron Williams
42. Al Horford
41. Andre Iguodala

Edit: Random side note - There's been 4 guys named Andre (or Andrei) on the list. I didn't think that was a very common name...
   6471. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 14, 2019 at 11:50 AM (#5871259)
Rumor is that the Nuggets might want to sign Bol Bol to a 2-way deal and that his camp is resistant. On that:
- He would the highest drafted guy to sign one of those deals (which pay way less than a min deal)
- Denver is one of only two teams not to have its own G League team (the other is Portland), which would make developing him, imo, a bit harder than it has to be if he is healthy enough to play, as he supposedly is.
bol bol is the wrong guy to pull that on.
   6472. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: August 14, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5871268)
Maybe this is recency bias, or my Michigan State University bias, but ranking Draymond that low seems absolutely ridiculous to me.
   6473. Booey Posted: August 14, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5871275)
Maybe this is recency bias, or my Michigan State University bias, but ranking Draymond that low seems absolutely ridiculous to me.


They drop you 10 spots for every nut kick.

Seriously though, Draymond is a hard one to rank. He's only played 7 seasons, and made just 3 All Star teams, which is a comparable amount to most the other guys around his rank. His career 43.3 WS is far less than many (most?) of the guys ranked behind him. Obviously being a vital star to a 3 time champion carries a lot of weight (as it should), because going off just the stats themselves (whether traditional or advanced), he's way too HIGH rather than way too low.
   6474. jmurph Posted: August 14, 2019 at 12:42 PM (#5871280)
I mean would you rather have Draymond or Jason Terry, the guy ranked one spot better? I don't see how that's even a conversation worth having.
   6475. jmurph Posted: August 14, 2019 at 12:46 PM (#5871285)
And speaking of the Warriors, Klay hasn't been ranked yet, so he's presumably coming in the top 40? Has Klay been more valuable than Draymond, to the Warriors?
   6476. Booey Posted: August 14, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5871291)
I mean would you rather have Draymond or Jason Terry, the guy ranked one spot better? I don't see how that's even a conversation worth having.


Well yeah, but I think that's more an argument that Terry is way too high than it is that Draymond is way too low. I'm not sure I'd take 7 years of Draymond over the longer careers of most the other players listed ahead of him so far. It's similar to Towns and Gobert being ranked in the mid 90's. Obviously they're way better than everyone else in that range, but they've only played 4 and 6 years respectively. They're not figuring future projections into their rankings.
   6477. DCA Posted: August 14, 2019 at 01:12 PM (#5871295)
Has Klay been more valuable than Draymond, to the Warriors?

Well, Klay got a 5/$190m extension, despite being out for much of the season with a major injury, and Dray got a 4/$100m extension, so apparently the team thinks so.

   6478. jmurph Posted: August 14, 2019 at 01:26 PM (#5871298)
Well, Klay got a 5/$190m extension, despite being out for much of the season with a major injury, and Dray got a 4/$100m extension, so apparently the team thinks so.

Well I would also take Klay for the next 5 years over Draymond, but I don't think that's what the list is about. (I would take Draymond's next 5 years over Tim Duncan's next 5 years, for instance.)
   6479. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: August 14, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5871306)
Well I would also take Klay for the next 5 years over Draymond, but I don't think that's what the list is about. (I would take Draymond's next 5 years over Tim Duncan's next 5 years, for instance.)


I don't know, Duncan is a SA assistant coach now. I could see a world where he develops <checks notes> Poeltl or Lyles into a Hall of Famer by teaching them the beautiful geometry of the bank shot, which would be pretty valuable, and he doesn't count against the salary cap.
   6480. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: August 14, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5871307)
I guess I've thought the Draymond stuff is crazy for years. I thought his first extension was a massive underpay at the time. I thought his current one is an underpay, maybe not massive. I think he's under-rated here.

He was 6th in RPM wins in 14-15, 1st in 15-16, 5th in 16-17, 18th in 17-18.

I know he was less this past season but then was good again playoffs. He has a 6.4 career BPM in the playoffs, 12th among all players with more than 2,000 playoff minutes. I'm willing to believe that maybe he goofs these all-in-one numbers somehow, or always being on the Warriors has inflated his value in those numbers somehow, but not enough to put him behind Jason Terry or Peja Stojokovic or Rashad Lewis.
   6481. jmurph Posted: August 14, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5871309)
They're not figuring future projections into their rankings.

Huh? I definitely wasn't doing that (see 6478). I'm literally saying I'd rather have Draymond's short career to date than Jason Terry's entire career. I'm not trying to pick on Terry other than he was ranked one spot better and thus made for an easy comparison, but other than sticking around a loooooooooong time, he's basically a footnote. He's not coming up in any conversation about best players of any particular era, or particular year, or particular team, even. He was the 6th man of the year once, made no All Star teams. Draymond has been a DPOY once, 3 All Star teams, 5 All Defensive teams, and 2 All NBA teams, in addition to being a key to one of the best teams of all time.
   6482. jmurph Posted: August 14, 2019 at 01:50 PM (#5871312)
Jason Terry! I'm arguing about Jason Terry! Damnit Booey I told you last week I didn't want to think about the likes of Antoine Walker (and now Jason Terry)!

(EDIT: I think this should be obvious but just in case, I'm just kidding- not about the merits of Draymond and Terry and Antoine, of course, but I'm not actually particularly fired up about it.)
   6483. Booey Posted: August 14, 2019 at 02:11 PM (#5871329)
Jason Terry! I'm arguing about Jason Terry! Damnit Booey I told you last week I didn't want to think about the likes of Antoine Walker (and now Jason Terry)!


(twisting my handlebar mustache) MUAH HA HA HA HA HA!

I agree with you about Terry vs Draymond, as I mentioned in 6476. Guys who were never stars shouldn't rank as high as Terry does, IMO.
   6484. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: August 14, 2019 at 04:23 PM (#5871417)
Green: I don't like him, but I agree that he is underrated here. Golden State may end up short-sheeted a little bit historically because of the 2016 loss and because they ended with the proverbial whimper, but their 2017 team was as good as any team has ever been, and Green's odd but very valuable skillset was one big reason for that invincibility. Green is still a very valuable player when he is in shape and focused, and if Thompson comes back OK, Golden State will still be putting good teams on the floor the next 2-3 years.

   6485. Fourth True Outcome Posted: August 14, 2019 at 04:46 PM (#5871425)
I was glad when Green signed his extension because I suspect his staying in GSW will be good for his legacy. Not that they're guaranteed any success, but as rr says his skillset fits well with Curry and Thompson, and he always seemed to me like a guy who could fade and/or cause friction if he left and ended up in a worse situation. I'm very interested to see how good GSW can be with their core three plus whoever they're able to surround them with over the next few years, and would bet that it will help, not hurt, Draymond's legacy.
   6486. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 14, 2019 at 05:45 PM (#5871443)
1050. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: July 15, 2017 at 07:31 PM (#5494102)
Also, you say Fultz "will" be better than the #1 busts, but that's an improper use of the future positive tense. He may be. He may be the fifth name on that list. We don't know.
sure it's possible fultz winds up being the 5th name in that group, but it's not really worth considering. okafor, noel, MCW and stauskas are all top 11 picks who've been more or less processed out of the team's future plans. if fultz isn't good enough, the same thing will happen to him.

also, all 4 of kwame/olowokandi/bargnani/bennett were known to be questionable/terrible picks at the time. the floor for fultz is much more likely to be of the joe smith/kenyon martin variety.
   6487. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: August 14, 2019 at 07:04 PM (#5871472)
There's a certain irony to dredging up such a big whiff during hittin' 53450n.
   6488. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 14, 2019 at 08:12 PM (#5871486)
There's a certain irony to dredging up such a big whiff during hittin' 53450n.

like ray e ain on your wetting dayuh?
   6489. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 14, 2019 at 09:26 PM (#5871503)
32. Sean Forman Posted: June 05, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5686303)
Thanks for the new thread, but I sure hope I don't have to look at the colangelo meme for six months.
45. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 05, 2018 at 05:04 PM (#5686436)
I just ad blocked it, like every other intro that's included a pic or gif.
46. villageidiom Posted: June 05, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5686438)
Yeah, that's you. But do you expect Sean Forman to advocate ad-blocking?

48. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: June 05, 2018 at 05:28 PM (#5686454)
I just ad blocked it, like every other intro that's included a pic or gif.
on a related note:
Marcel Freinbichler
@fr3ino
Because of #GDPR, USA Today decided to run a separate version of their website for EU users, which has all the tracking scripts and ads removed. The site seemed very fast, so I did a performance audit. How fast the internet could be without all the junk!
5.2MB → 500KB

Marcel Freinbichler
@fr3ino
They went from a load time of more than 45 seconds to 3 seconds, from 124 (!) JavaScript files to 0, and from a total of more than 500 requests to 34.
51. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: June 06, 2018 at 01:56 AM (#5686760)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
ESPN Sources: Philadelphia 76ers ownership met Tuesday night to weigh Bryan Colangelo’s fate in wake of probe.

Jon Johnson @jonjohnsonwip
According to @Adrian Wojnarowski, Sixers ownership met tonight in NY to discuss whether the findings of investigation "necessitates his(Colangelo) firing."

John Barchard @JohnBarchard
Per @jonjohnsonwip now on WIP, the Sixers are holding out hope that Bryan can continue as GM. Unreal. Also says the Jerry is using as much power as he has

Sarah Todd @NBASarah
I think the tweets and the info shared is beyond damning. If a conversation about his future is happening tho, and someone is trying to make a case they’re probably latching onto nuance. In the end, I don’t think it will matter though.

Jon Johnson @jonjohnsonwip
Meeting for several hours certainty suggests a struggle to decide. #Sixers

Mike Chiodo @MHC_76
Jon Johnson, on WIP, reports that the reason the investigation is taking so long is NOT because the Sixers are looking for reason to fire him with cause and avoid a lawsuit, but that ownership is holding out hope that the investigation will prove BC innocent. Unreal.




185. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: June 07, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5687754)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Philadelphia and Bryan Colangelo have agreed to part ways, league sources tell ESPN.

Sixers are holding a news conference with owners this afternoon to make the announcement, sources said.

In the wake of the twitter burner account probe, Bryan Colangelo's departure in Philadelphia is expected to be described as a resignation, league source tells ESPN.

Sixers coach Brett Brown will oversee basketball operations on an interim basis.
191. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: June 07, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5687772)
@KyleNeubeck
Sources tell PhillyVoice: Part of delay in Sixers process was due to pressure from Jerry Colangelo, who threatened to damage team relationships in the event Bryan was fired. https://t.co/0dWUPPtgBz
203. JJ1986 Posted: June 07, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5687815)
I'll bet the Sixers look at Shane Battier and James Jones
207. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5687828)
not sure about jones, but battier might be worth a look.
(my instincts on this one: 100)
@imbeccable
colangelo’s wife did a factory reset of her iphone, but eric jr posted tweets from an android
254. Sean Forman Posted: June 08, 2018 at 01:59 AM (#5688174)
God, I am so relieved/happy Colangelo is gone. Phew.
Fultz just went 4-for-18 shooting 3s in around-the-world format.
— Tom Moore (@TomMoorePhilly) June 18, 2017
Fultz struggled to hit his 3-point shots consistently in drill. Have to wonder if he's feeling effects of the trip here.
— Jessica Camerato (@JCameratoNBCS) June 18, 2017
Fultz from beyond arc
pic.twitter.com/TrB2P9nHBr
— Jon Johnson (@jonjohnsonwip) June 18, 2017

274. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: June 08, 2018 at 12:45 PM (#5688379)
The simplest deal would be trading LeBron for Hayward, Marcus Morris, and a first-round pick. Cleveland, as much as they might hate to trade LeBron within their conference, would have to do it. If Hayward returns at 100 percent from his ankle injury, he would be their new franchise player, and a team built around Hayward and Kevin Love would immediately be relevant in the Eastern Conference.

never go FULL SIMMONS
   6490. spivey Posted: August 14, 2019 at 09:39 PM (#5871510)
Team USA sounds like they got spanked in a scrimmage with G League guys. Harrison Barnes should not be in any closing lineups.
   6491. Moeball Posted: August 14, 2019 at 10:13 PM (#5871532)
Just heard about shooting in Philly. Don't know much about what happened but hoping Stiggles and other Philly fans and families ok.
   6492. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: August 15, 2019 at 01:59 AM (#5871563)
Is there a good argument for putting Grant Hill above Alonzo Mourning that isn't "I don't want to list a fifth center for the 90's?"

He was a much better player?

(Said as a big Zo fan)
   6493. stevegamer Posted: August 15, 2019 at 05:50 AM (#5871567)
Just heard about shooting in Philly. Don't know much about what happened but hoping Stiggles and other Philly fans and families ok.


Thanks for the thoughts. It was just a standoff between a guy and the police, not a mass shooting of civilians or anything. I was using Google Maps at the time it was going down, and I saw "shooting" pop up. That was very odd.
   6494. jmurph Posted: August 15, 2019 at 09:47 AM (#5871603)
Team USA sounds like they got spanked in a scrimmage with G League guys. Harrison Barnes should not be in any closing lineups.

He must be a really nice guy, it's honestly very confusing why he gets these kinds of opportunities.
   6495. jmurph Posted: August 15, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5871620)
And speaking of Team USA, Windhorst is on the latest Simmons podcast with some reporting on the practices and scrimmages. It's pretty good, though trigger warning for some of you, it's a bit Celtics-centric early (just on Tatum and Kemba, I think that's mostly it).
   6496. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: August 15, 2019 at 11:27 AM (#5871646)
Woj: “Lakers center DeMarcus Cousins has suffered a possible knee injury and will undergo further testing today in Los Angeles, league sources tell ESPN. Cousins was working out in Las Vegas on Monday when he had to leave the court, sources said. He signed a one-year deal in July.”
   6497. jmurph Posted: August 15, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5871653)
Interesting article ($$) on the 19-20 schedule, and efforts the league is making to increase TV viewership.
   6498. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: August 15, 2019 at 12:39 PM (#5871680)
[6490]
from DSPN:
If they have any sense of how to play with one another, it was not at all legible in these 12 minutes. P.J. Tucker is receiving the ball with some expectation to “create.” Donovan Mitchell looks like one of two people on his team that can successfully dribble three times in a row, and yet dreadful things happen when he does so. A closing lineup of Mitchell, Kemba Walker, Harrison Barnes, and Brook Lopez—which likely isn’t far off from the team they’ll close with in the actual tournament—was thoroughly worked by dudes who can’t sniff an NBA roster.
   6499. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: August 15, 2019 at 12:47 PM (#5871682)
Pelton projections are out ($):

WC:
HOU/DEN

LAL/LAC/UTA/GSW
DAL

POR/SAC/MIN
SAS/NOP/PHX
OKC

MEM

EC:
MIL
BOS/PHI/ORL
TOR
MIA/IND
BRK
CHI/DET

WAS
ATL/CHA

CLE/NYK
   6500. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: August 15, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5871684)
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