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Thursday, September 26, 2019

OT - NBA thread (pre-season)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about baseball, and this thread is the only thing keeping this site alive.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 26, 2019 at 09:56 AM | 673 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   201. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 07, 2019 at 05:01 PM (#5887517)
Honestly, this being sportswriting, the answer may well be that The Athletic will cowardly dodge anything political, but we'll see. I'm sure they noticed that many of the critical comments compared them to what Deadspin has been doing with its coverage here very unfavorably

worth noting:

even though i've posted a few excerpts from deadspin about this issue (i think their coverage of it, both in terms of volume and substance, has been pretty exemplary), the current status of deadspin's editorial independence is questionable at best.
   202. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: October 07, 2019 at 05:05 PM (#5887525)
There is at least one thing that unites all basketball fans of every nation, creed, and tribe the world over, and has for many years: we all of us believe that this will definitely be the year the Trail Blazers sink out of the playoffs and back to .500ish obscurity.
   203. aberg Posted: October 07, 2019 at 05:10 PM (#5887530)
198--Thanks for sharing, and I checked out the comments section and holy #### is that writer getting crushed.


I almost feel bad for him. He's way out of his depth. He responded to one of the comments with something like, "hey, I'm just reporting two viewpoints on an issue" without any understanding that one of those sides is jailing/killing political dissidents and the other is opposing doing that.
   204. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 07, 2019 at 05:22 PM (#5887539)
To be clear, what’s happening here is part of something much larger and more terrifying than the original Gamergate. The Chinese government, one of the world’s most repressive regimes, one responsible for numerous ongoing outrages against human rights and privacy in and outside its borders—including a present-day program of genocide against its Muslim population in Xinjiang—is organizing to make it financially unfeasible and professionally suicidal for anyone in the world to criticize it, even mildly.

DSPN, again.
   205. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 07, 2019 at 06:01 PM (#5887556)
There is at least one thing that unites all basketball fans of every nation, creed, and tribe the world over, and has for many years: we all of us believe that this will definitely be the year the Trail Blazers sink out of the playoffs and back to .500ish obscurity.

"Andrew Wiggins will remain terrible".
   206. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 07, 2019 at 06:34 PM (#5887571)
it is important to understand the history and context of the demand for history and context, as offered by Brooklyn Nets owner Joe Tsai
...
Tsai brought up the opium wars, the humiliation of the Qing dynasty, and the Rape of Nanjing, among other things, to explain why the “territorial integrity of China and the country’s sovereignty over her homeland” are “non-negotiable.” This is the standard script when the People’s Republic of China wants to weaponize nationalism—every provocation must be considered in the light of all historic provocations.

The script is nonsense
...
The message of a spiel like Tsai’s is that foreign institutions can coexist with the Chinese government on mutual terms of respect, as long as those institutions honor the boundaries around China’s nonnegotiable sensitivities. The truth, though, is that those boundaries are constantly moving. Ever since the 2008 Beijing Olympics, which were supposed to celebrate China’s full integration into the international order, the government has been aggressively tightening the limits...

What are you going to do, after all, turn your back on 1.4 billion people? Or 1.399 billion, if you don’t count the 1 million Uighurs reportedly held in prison camps where their culture is trained out of them by force (in a territory where the NBA established a training camp)?
not DSPN
   207. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 07, 2019 at 07:07 PM (#5887606)
If you look at the swirl of demands, statements, apologies, retractions, overreactions, and poses that followed Morey’s original tweet, this might look like a complicated story, a story of accidental cultural conflict brought about through deep geopolitical nuance. It isn’t. It’s just another nasty little farce about money and power and the breathtaking speed with which 21st-century capitalists are prepared to sell out democracy for a Skee-Ball token. The Chinese market is strategically important to the NBA’s global expansion. The Rockets, the team that drafted Yao Ming in 2002, are the second-most-popular team in China, according to a recent survey. The Chinese authorities, like most autocratic governments, love manufacturing controversies that let them pretend to have the moral high ground while stirring up nationalist sentiment on social media. Everyone in this situation is acting out the role dictated to them by this set of circumstances. Almost none of it has do with principle, or even with sincere belief.

Also not DSPN
   208. Hexx Posted: October 07, 2019 at 07:12 PM (#5887613)
The Athletic has turned off the comments on that article. It's really making me question my subscription. It's amazing on how one tweet has exposed just how much power China really has and how they're not afraid to use it.
   209. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 07, 2019 at 07:25 PM (#5887627)
I emailed support at The Athletic expressing my disappointment but also asking what their standards are and whether this article met them. I'll be very curious to see how they respond (if they in fact do in a meaningful way; we'll see).
   210. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: October 07, 2019 at 07:29 PM (#5887629)
I actually am pondering combining 208 and 209 and canceling my subscription and telling them this is why. THAT is the only thing that might possibly get their attention... but probably not. China’s money and power far exceeda that of any internet movement even in my most optimistic dreams.
   211. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 07, 2019 at 07:32 PM (#5887630)
Yeah, I included a very concrete threat of doing so in my email, but that is not at all the same thing as following through and hitting them in their pocketbook.
   212. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 07, 2019 at 08:52 PM (#5887666)
again not DSPN:
Tilman Fertitta, the Rockets’ owner, occasionally goes on CNBC to praise Donald Trump, from whom he bought an Atlantic City casino in 2011, and to say things like “Obamacare does not work.” He has no problem then turning around and declaring that the Rockets are a “non-political organization” to make nice with China, because what he means by “non-political organization” is that he thinks hundred-dollar bills are nice, and also #### you.
...
It’s likely that the NBA’s pursuit of its own business caused small but actual harm to the Hong Kong protesters this week. In walking back Morey’s brief moment of sincere political conviction, the league put out the message to anyone who was paying attention that the state of affairs in Hong Kong is somehow too sensitive and complex to take on any position at all, as if the only responsible outlook on the protests were a sort of grave, Thoughts and Prayers–ish bewilderment

   213. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 07, 2019 at 11:45 PM (#5887760)
In non-China-related news, Marcus Morris is out here following through on his "old school Knicks" talk.
   214. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 07, 2019 at 11:49 PM (#5887764)
Ok I posted that because I watched the clip ten times in a row when a video of Morris doinking Anderson in the forehead with the ball showed up on my twitter feed, but the details only improve it:
Morris, who often cites his toughness as being from “North Philly,” was given a Flagrant 2 foul, which carries an automatic ejection. An NBA official said all Flagant 2’s are reviewed for potential suspension and the penalty would be served at the start of the regular season.

That is a fact Morris did not realize.

“It’s preseason,’’ Morris said. “I’d be concerned if it was regular season. I wouldn’t want to miss any regular-season games. If it was regular season I wouldn’t have done that. My team needs me.’’

Morris fist-bumped a Knicks fan on his way out and wore a smile on his face throughout his long walk to the locker room. When told later — after he had met with the media — any suspension would not be served until for the regular season, Morris let out an expletive.

NY Post
   215. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 07, 2019 at 11:56 PM (#5887767)
The Athletic article on Lowry's extension commented on the amazingly thin free agent market next summer, which I hadn't previously put together. AD is the only real impact guy who even might be on the market, and he presumably is a heavy favorite to remain with the Lakers. It's interesting because the league looks very high-parity this year, and that's likely to carry on to next year as well -- or, alternatively, if someone wanted to trade a star they might be able to get a very rich price next offseason.

Andrew Wiggins, come on down!
   216. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 07, 2019 at 11:58 PM (#5887768)
Morris, who often cites his toughness as being from “North Philly,”
stop snitching.
   217. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 07, 2019 at 11:59 PM (#5887771)
or, alternatively, if someone wanted to trade a star they might be able to get a very rich price next offseason.
tobias harris isn't walking through that door.
   218. Howie Menckel Posted: October 08, 2019 at 12:17 AM (#5887779)
ah, not worth it
   219. tshipman Posted: October 08, 2019 at 01:58 AM (#5887806)
“It’s preseason,’’ Morris said. “I’d be concerned if it was regular season. I wouldn’t want to miss any regular-season games. If it was regular season I wouldn’t have done that. My team needs me.’’

Morris fist-bumped a Knicks fan on his way out and wore a smile on his face throughout his long walk to the locker room. When told later — after he had met with the media — any suspension would not be served until for the regular season, Morris let out an expletive.


*kisses fingers*

Perfection. Just peak Knicks and it's only the preseason.
   220. spivey Posted: October 08, 2019 at 08:57 AM (#5887824)
Looks like Silver took a little bit less of a milquetoast stance, basically saying they're not going to regulate this in any way, and it looks like this is going to get even messier. I can't tell if the latest is CCTV is just canceling showing the 2 pre-season games or all NBA games. Either way, messy!
   221. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 08, 2019 at 09:30 AM (#5887836)
I admit I am conflicted about this story.

First of all I really don't like politics in my sports entertainment. Especially because sports reporting is horrifically bad when applied in that area. When I am consuming entertainment I prefer not to have to care about non-sports stuff (including contracts, social issues, and whatever).

Other the other hand the issues at play are way more important than sports. Pushing back on China and their horrible regime is important, and punishing the NBA for their utterly weenie sell out (which is understandable, because business exists to make money, and Chinese money is awesome) is a kind of important step to put business on notice.
   222. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 08, 2019 at 09:57 AM (#5887847)
I'm not conflicted, just resigned.
   223. spivey Posted: October 08, 2019 at 10:11 AM (#5887849)
I mean, Silver's latest statements were about as strong as you would expect someone in his position to make. The early returns are China is not happy. The NBA started off being pretty weak, and they're still not quite as strong as I'd like, but I feel like Silver has basically told China to deal with it, the NBA isn't going to restrict speech on anyone. It'll be interesting to see where this goes - China abandoning the NBA, what would be next there? Just abandoning the sport of basketball? That seems drastic and I wonder how well it would work. If they move their support/coverage to the Euro leagues, it's only a matter of time before this happens there too.
   224. JL72 Posted: October 08, 2019 at 10:18 AM (#5887852)
but I feel like Silver has basically told China to deal with it, the NBA isn't going to restrict speech on anyone.


I would be interested to see what would happen if a player said something. Morey is a team employee, so having him back down is one thing. But players are different. And some players are more different than others.
   225. spivey Posted: October 08, 2019 at 10:33 AM (#5887863)
I would be interested to see what would happen if a player said something. Morey is a team employee, so having him back down is one thing. But players are different. And some players are more different than others.


I think nothing would or could happen, at least from the league, which I think is why Silver probably amended his statement. I mean he's right. He doesn't have either the legal or logistical resources to police every single thing anyone associated with the NBA can say.
   226. The Good Face Posted: October 08, 2019 at 10:45 AM (#5887868)
I would be interested to see what would happen if a player said something. Morey is a team employee, so having him back down is one thing. But players are different. And some players are more different than others.


Players like money, just like everybody else. The big stars could potentially be risking a lot of money by speaking out. And the non-stars could potentially be risking their careers, since they tend to be pretty replaceable.
   227. JL72 Posted: October 08, 2019 at 01:02 PM (#5887937)
Players like money, just like everybody else.


I think that is right. I guy like LeBron, who has a ton of money already, could say something, but looking at how much more he stands to make in China, I doubt he speaks up.
   228. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 08, 2019 at 01:17 PM (#5887942)
Agreed. Only player I've seen speak up is Bogut.
--
On a different note, weren't the newly collected heights to be made available by now?
   229. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 08, 2019 at 01:30 PM (#5887947)
Moreso than the NBA putting pressure on the players to stay quiet, I bet it's their sponsors (like Nike, adidas, etc) that's doing a better job of keeping guys from speaking up.

---

Bucks backups clobbered the Bulls last night (not that I was able to watch even if I wanted to - Dish Network is fighting with FOX so I'm currently without FOX/FS1/NBCSN which is also cramping my NFL and MLB watching), but I guess this is one positive:
Mark Strotman @markstrot
Otto Porter averaged 4.6 midrange attempts per game last season. Zach LaVine averaged 3.2 per game.

How many did they take last night in 39 combined minutes?

One, because Otto Porter's foot was on the line on a 3-pointer.

THAT is your biggest takeaway. 2019 arrived in Chicago.

Mark Strotman @markstrot

78 of the Bulls' 98 attempts came inside the restricted area or from the 3-point line. That's nearly 80% of their attempts. Chris Fleming and Roy Rogers already deserve raises.
   230. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 08, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5887949)
I think I need to set up some sort of alert for any time Brook or Robin are talking about each other:

Eric Nehm @eric_nehm

Asked Robin Lopez what he thought of Brook's tea celebration.

"It was a poor mimicry of mine. It didn't have any of the insight or any passion. His miming skills aren't what mine are."

Told Brook that Robin called it a poor mimicry.

Brook: He's a poor mimicry of me in general.

K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop

Robin Lopez on leaving Bulls for Bucks: "Obviously, it was an appealing offer, a very good organization top to bottom. They’re ideally trying to win now."

As for being teammates with Brook for 1st time since Stanford? "You can’t have everything."
   231. If on a winter's night a new father Posted: October 08, 2019 at 01:36 PM (#5887951)
weren't the newly collected heights to be made available by now?
They have been, I think, but I haven't sen any centralized collection of them; just team-by-team releases for their first preseason game. Speaking as a Celtics fan, the biggest bombshells I've seen so far are: Walker keeping a 6 at the start of his height; Tatum's listed height staying exactly the same (he grew a bit since being drafted, and would probably be listed at 6'9" now by the old system); and Tacko Fall's incredulity at being measured at a measly 7'5".

Any other gems from other teams' newly-standardized height measurements? The only ones I can recall seeing so far are Embiid being (barely) under 7' and Horford being shorter than Simmons.
   232. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 08, 2019 at 01:39 PM (#5887952)
K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop
FWIW, all the Bulls who were on last season's roster have same heights listed on this season's roster. There are some changes in weights, with Felicio moving from 265 to 280 pounds the biggest. Markkanen's listed weight dropped from 240 to 227 pounds.
   233. jmurph Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:12 PM (#5887971)
Speaking of Tacko, I'm extremely disappointed in my fellow Celtics fan posters for not providing breathless coverage of his preseason debut the other night. He was delightful and I demand he makes the team.

In related news, they might have some trouble defending the paint this year.
   234. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:17 PM (#5887974)
Re: Heights

I didn't get why people made such a big deal out of the Embiid and Zion ones. I think both guys lost an inch from their previous "official measurement" so both heights made sense to me from the perspective of these are without shoes.
   235. Harlond Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:21 PM (#5887976)
I wonder if the Lopezes' mom enjoys their public #$%@ talking as much as we do? I hope so, because it's great.
   236. If on a winter's night a new father Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5887981)
I don't get the Zion one at all; Embiid is funny because a) such a big deal has been made of him being 7'2", and b) 6'11 3/4 sits riiiiiight below the threshold of a round number.

I'll co-sign all of jmurph's thoughts on Tacko—he's tremendous entertainment on the court, he's remarkably smart and poised off of it, and the potential he brings for at least situational rim protection is hard to beat. I haven't said much on the subject because I find the carnival act nature of so many people's reaction to his size a little distasteful, but I'll be extremely disappointed if the Celtics don't lock him in with at least a two-way contract.
   237. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:42 PM (#5887984)
and yet, every generation has a few remarkable athletes who stand up in the face of such overbearing hostility. jackie robinson; muhammad ali; curt flood; john carlos; tommy smith; jahlil okafor; michael sam; colin kaepernick; magic johnson.


?
   238. jmurph Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:43 PM (#5887985)
My only take on the adjusted heights is that opposing players should be embarrassed that a guy who is apparently only 6'5 has been the best big man defender in the league for years now.
   239. jmurph Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:44 PM (#5887986)
?

Jake, stiggles-town, etc.
   240. If on a winter's night a new father Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:44 PM (#5887987)
Pretty sure that's a reference to this.
   241. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 08, 2019 at 03:09 PM (#5887996)
   240. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: October 08, 2019 at 02:44 PM (#5887987)
Pretty sure that's a reference to this.
nah. it's actually a reference to this:
4500. aberg Posted: January 08, 2019 at 04:18 PM (#5803523)
favors, plumlee, carter, collins, okafor.

Your performance art of wedging Okafor into as many posts as possible is not unnoticed, nor is it unappreciated.
   242. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 08, 2019 at 03:16 PM (#5888001)
My only take on the adjusted heights is that opposing players should be embarrassed that a guy who is apparently only 6'5 has been the best big man defender in the league for years now.


Nerlens Noel is only 6'5"???
   243. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: October 08, 2019 at 03:22 PM (#5888003)
Couldn't be more hyped for my Knicks to brawl their way to 29 wins.
   244. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 08, 2019 at 03:23 PM (#5888004)
Embiid is funny because a) such a big deal has been made of him being 7'2", and b) 6'11 3/4 sits riiiiiight below the threshold of a round number.

take out the cornrows, put some shoes on him, and smack him with a meterstick if it looks like he's slouching, and i guarantee he'll get up 7'2.


while i was looking (unsuccessfully) for karl towns' new height (which will be less than ben simmons', or i'll eat a 1/3 pound of cooked bacon (on white toast, with some pickled jalapenos) for dinner), i ran into these:
@DaneMooreNBA
In Timberwolves camp, to create habits of being an active cutter/rim-attacker, the coaching staff is incentivizing the action. In the scrimmages, players are getting a point + the ball back after drawing shooting fouls. Ryan Saunders calls it an “analytics-based scoring system”

@JonKrawczynski
Wolves hosted 120 basketball coaches from Minnesota at camp today. A big initiative from John Thomas and Ryan Saunders to establish a connection to the grassroots
@JonKrawczynski
Robert Covington was open and honest about his mental health struggles during his injury last year. Said he had to send his family away at one point so they weren't brought down as well. Saunders, Layden and Gregg Farnam helped him find a therapist.
   245. jmurph Posted: October 08, 2019 at 03:33 PM (#5888008)
I like some of the depth pieces Minnesota added- Napier, Layman, Bell, even Vonleh- but they might be baaaad. Who is the starting 5? Towns/Wiggins/Teague/Covington...? Okogie? Layman?
   246. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 08, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5888017)
I like some of the depth pieces Minnesota added- Napier, Layman, Bell, even Vonleh- but they might be baaaad. Who is the starting 5? Towns/Wiggins/Teague/Covington...? Okogie? Layman?


It depends (from what I hear) on if they are playing big or small. The small line up has Covington as the 4, else he is the 3. Depending on him they fill in the final spot with whoever works for that role against the specific opponent.

Just a guess though.
   247. Booey Posted: October 08, 2019 at 03:51 PM (#5888019)
I hope my twins grow up to be like Brook and Robin.

I mean 7 feet tall and making millions in the NBA, but the good natured sh!t talking would be fun too...

i'll eat a 1/3 pound of cooked bacon (on white toast, with some pickled jalapenos) for dinner)


That...doesn't sound too bad.
   248. jmurph Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:22 PM (#5888030)
I mean 7 feet tall and making millions in the NBA, but the good natured sh!t talking would be fun too...

For my own non-twin sons I'm cool with the millions and the NBA parts but the 7 foot business really seems like it would be difficult for my family's bottom line through the high school years. They already eat a lot and they're only 3 and 6.
   249. Booey Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:32 PM (#5888034)
For my own non-twin sons I'm cool with the millions and the NBA parts but the 7 foot business really seems like it would be difficult for my family's bottom line through the high school years. They already eat a lot and they're only 3 and 6.


Mine are the opposite. We basically have to force them to eat anything.

Plus I'm 5'11" and Mrs Booey is 5'1". I'm not too worried about our kids reaching 7 foot. ;-)
   250. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:34 PM (#5888036)
My girls are not going to be seven footers, but based on what we've observed, they will definitely eat us out of house and home.
   251. aberg Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:37 PM (#5888039)
It depends (from what I hear) on if they are playing big or small. The small line up has Covington as the 4, else he is the 3. Depending on him they fill in the final spot with whoever works for that role against the specific opponent.

Just a guess though.


I think they'll try RoCo at the 4 early, but I think that's more of a 15 min/g solution, or a good matchup against teams that play small. I have a sneaky feeling that Layman will work his way into the lineup later in the year and they'll go with the trendy two combo forward style. He needs to shoot a lot better (he has, for stretches), but the outline of a useful, modern player is there.

The two things that have me hung up going into the year are: 1) Wiggins, for all the Wiggins reasons and 2) the lame duck PG situation. I thought they'd have some sort of succession plan or have moved on from Teague by now. He's almost certainly gone at the end of the year and Shabazz Napier is the only other PG on the roster. I suppose the plan is to be active in the trade market, but that's a pretty important spot to have no long-term plan.
   252. aberg Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:39 PM (#5888041)
My girls are not going to be seven footers, but based on what we've observed, they will definitely eat us out of house and home.


My wife and I had a daughter this summer. We're both tall. Baby was born in the 15th percentile in height and was up to 80th by month 2. I'm hoping she maintains this pace and gets up to 145th percentile by month 4, dunking (2-handed, of course) by month 8.
   253. jmurph Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:42 PM (#5888043)
Congrats berg!

My wife and I are tall but just normal people tall (I'm 6'2, she's 5'8), so while our kids have always been in the 90ish percentile for height I don't think we need to worry too much.
   254. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:42 PM (#5888045)
My wife and I had a daughter this summer. We're both tall. Baby was born in the 15th percentile in height and was up to 80th by month 2. I'm hoping she maintains this pace and gets up to 145th percentile by month 4, dunking (2-handed, of course) by month 8.

Peanut, 4, is hopelessly un-athletic. Her little sister, Nails, however, is something else.
   255. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:45 PM (#5888047)
I am the family giant on both sides of my family at 5'11". My father-in-law is 5'6".

Suffice to say my son is very likely going to have to live with being short. He already is a four-year-old the height of the average three-year-old.
   256. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:48 PM (#5888049)
I'm 6'3", and Nails at 2 ½ is already taller than her four year old sister.
   257. If on a winter's night a new father Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:55 PM (#5888053)
[252] almost exactly maps to my hopes for my own daughter (still a fetus, and scheduled to remain that way for 9 more days), although I'd prefer she doesn't make a habit of dunking on 10' rims until she's at least 4, for the sake of her growing joints.
   258. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 08, 2019 at 04:58 PM (#5888056)
My wife is 5 foot on a good day and my mom is 4'11" (I'm 5'6".) My daughter shocked everyone by being 80th percentile through her first birthday. By age 2 she was down to 50th and I'm not sure she has grown at all in the 10 months since. Regression to the mean is a real #####.
   259. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 08, 2019 at 05:05 PM (#5888059)
[257] Is she going to be #1?
   260. If on a winter's night a new father Posted: October 08, 2019 at 05:13 PM (#5888061)
[259] Yep! Our only dependent out of the womb is a dog.

My wife is 6' and I'm 6'3", so I reckon the real struggle is going to be keeping her from being pigeonholed as a center growing up so I can crush her life under my vicarious dream of stardom as a big point guard.
   261. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 08, 2019 at 05:13 PM (#5888062)
Mine are the opposite. We basically have to force them to eat anything.

Same. Also, no risk for either of my boys breaking any heights records. My 3 year old nephew the same size as my 5 year old.
   262. aberg Posted: October 08, 2019 at 05:16 PM (#5888064)
My wife is 6' and I'm 6'3", so I reckon the real struggle is going to be keeping her from being pigeonholed as a center growing up so I can crush her life under my vicarious dream of stardom as a big point guard.


Good luck. You need one of those late growth spurts so she has PG skills in a post body.
   263. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 08, 2019 at 07:14 PM (#5888088)
Yep! Our only dependent out of the womb is a dog.

Congratulations! You have no idea what you're in for!
   264. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: October 08, 2019 at 07:18 PM (#5888089)
My daughter, 3.5, has spent most of her life in the 35-45% range for height but recently shot up to 60%. I'm 5'9" and my wife is 5'4". I'm embarrassed at how much time I've spent figuring out whether she'll have the height to compete at a high level in tennis or soccer. During our last visit to the doctor, we were told that our son to be's weight was in the 85th percentile, so hopefully he's just as tall and can fulfill my NBA dreams.
   265. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 08, 2019 at 07:25 PM (#5888091)
I think that Nails is likely to be able to compete at a high level in krav maga, given the frequency and severity with which she administers swift kicks to my balls.
   266. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 08, 2019 at 08:26 PM (#5888110)
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
Ben Simmons just made a 3. Standing O.

@jonjohnsonwip
Ladies & Gentlemen, I present....Ben Simmons
pic.twitter.com/z8jscj11Ox
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!!!!!
   267. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 08, 2019 at 08:41 PM (#5888117)
DSPN: "The Athletic Outrages White Men Everywhere By Censoring Their Opinions On China"
When the Athletic did get around to covering the fallout from Morey’s tweet, though, they fell way short of “getting it right.” This article by senior NBA writer Joe Vardon is framed as a kind of explainer for the whole affair, but seems to take the Chinese establishment’s explanation for the outrage at face value. This had the unfortunate effect of presenting an authoritarian government’s propaganda uncritically, and under the guise of neutral journalism.

   268. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 08, 2019 at 08:48 PM (#5888120)
also DSPN:
At the tail end of First Take’s extended discussion today about the ongoing debacle between the NBA and China, Stephen A. Smith had one final take he wanted to get off. He began auspiciously, if not with his trademark eloquence: “I would remind you that, throughout this world, one of the things that exists is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.” Shocking no one, host Molly Qerim just about broke her neck trying to rush to the commercial break:
...
I’m pretty sure Max Kellerman wasn’t the only one on set making that face.


some shades of rick sanchez there.
   269. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 08, 2019 at 08:53 PM (#5888123)
“I would remind you that, throughout this world, one of the things that exists is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.”

"Of all the things that exist, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of them"
   270. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 08, 2019 at 08:57 PM (#5888127)
and finally, DSPN:


Chuck Salituro, the senior news director of ESPN, sent a memo to shows mandating that any discussion of the Daryl Morey story avoid any political discussions about China and Hong Kong, and instead focus on the related basketball issues. The memo, obtained by Deadspin, explicitly discouraged any political discussion about China and Hong Kong. Multiple ESPN sources confirmed to Deadspin that network higher-ups were keeping a close eye on how the topic was discussed on ESPN’s airwaves.
...
[SportsCenter] called the protestors in Hong Kong “anti-government” protestors.
...
High Noon’s Bomani Jones and Pablo Torre dedicated more than five minutes to their discussion, which while thoughtful as usual, also elided any discussion about what exactly Morey was supporting with his tweet:
...
Tony Reali threw the topic to Ramona Shelburne, who alluded to “both sides” of the “issue” without giving any sort of explanation of what those sides or issues were
...
the viewers were ill-served by Shelburne and the others so thoroughly dancing around what is at the heart of this story. You don’t have to be a scholar or expert in Chinese political systems to grasp and talk about what is happening in Hong Kong, especially with respect to Morey’s tweet
...
The idea that Chinese politics are simply too complex to talk about on sports TV just isn’t convincing.

   271. stevegamer Posted: October 08, 2019 at 09:57 PM (#5888153)
It'll be interesting to see where this goes - China abandoning the NBA, what would be next there? Just abandoning the sport of basketball? That seems drastic and I wonder how well it would work.



Plans are already underway
   272. If on a winter's night a new father Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:43 AM (#5888177)
Anyone else catch game 4 of the WNBA finals? It was a humdinger, and went down to the final seconds. Connecticut came out like gangbusters, building a 16-point lead at the half; Washington had an even better 3rd to tie it back up, pushing it to a 5-point lead in the 4th. Much of the last minute was a single-point game, but after the free throws were sorted out, the Sun won by 4 to force a winner-take-all game 5. Elena Delle Donne still has a janky back, but was able to move decently; here's hoping that continues Thursday night (I'm not rooting for Washington—I'm not really pulling for either team specifically—but we're talking about the MVP in the Finals here).
   273. jmurph Posted: October 09, 2019 at 11:38 AM (#5888258)
Hollinger is doing division by division projections/predictions for The Athletic. Here's the Pacific Division link. He's got it pretty close at the top, but I suspect this is not the order most will have:

Clippers 53-29
Warriors 51-31
Lakers 50-32
Suns 31-51
Kings 30-52

I don't love Sacramento's offseason, either, but man I'd be surprised if Phoenix wins more games than they do.
   274. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:12 PM (#5888280)
That caught my eye as well.
Sacramento has a weird, weird team, but their floor ought to be kind of high - they don't have a lot of bad players.
   275. aberg Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:37 PM (#5888297)
Sacramento has a weird, weird team, but their floor ought to be kind of high - they don't have a lot of bad players.


Phoenix, on the other hand, has a lot of bad players.

I don't mind a starting 5 of Rubio-Booker-Oubre-Saric-Ayton. Beyond, that I'm not sure they have a single bench player who I think is even average as a bench player. I suppose Cam Johnson could make a ton of threes, or Bridges could deliver on some of his potential. The rest of it is just gross.
   276. aberg Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:39 PM (#5888299)
For posterity, and since we do have people who really go through these archives, I think it's worth noting that Silver has seemingly been more supportive of Morey's free speech rights than his initial "regrettable" tweet would have indicated. I give him some credit for that. I thought he purely chose money over principles, but I might have judged too quickly.
   277. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:07 PM (#5888313)
273--If they have Hollinger around, maybe I will subscribe. I have heard it is a good source.

As to the predictions, I have said a few time that I think trying to sort out 1-7 in the West for the regular season is mostly guesswork. As was the case in 2008 and 2010, I could easily see all these teams:

UTAH
CLIPPERS
LAKERS
GOLDEN STATE
DENVER
HOUSTON
PORTLAND

between 49-56 wins, and stuff that cannot be foreseen but will happen (trades and injuries) will likely have a big effect on one or two of these teams. That said, I do think that Golden State might be a little better than the popular consensus. If I had to pick a team for best record, I would probably take Utah. If I had to pick a team to win the conference, I would probably take the Clippers.

I am not big on either Sacramento or Phoenix at all, but I think the Kings will win more games than the Suns.
   278. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5888314)
I thought he purely chose money over principles, but I might have judged too quickly.

I've been realizing this over the last 24 hours. Silver's second comment and China's reaction to it has made me realize this is an ongoing negotation of what the relationship between the NBA and China is and should be going forward, and what that does and doesn't mean for GMs and other team employees. The PR blowback on this, especially when combined with the similar-but-worse Blizzard situation, has to have caught his attention too. It's a tricky situation for the league, and I'm very curious to see how Silver negotiates it.
   279. jmurph Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:36 PM (#5888322)
273--If they have Hollinger around, maybe I will subscribe. I have heard it is a good source.

I'm a relatively new subscriber, but they have some solid basketball coverage, and it might be worth it just for that. They're constantly running 40% off sales so definitely don't pay full price.
   280. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5888327)
For posterity, and since we do have people who really go through these archives, I think it's worth noting that Silver has seemingly been more supportive of Morey's free speech rights than his initial "regrettable" tweet would have indicated. I give him some credit for that. I thought he purely chose money over principles, but I might have judged too quickly.
fwiw, i don't see it this way.

i think silver's initial comments (also, i'm not sure it's fair to single out dave silver in this; this controversy caught everyone flatfooted, and the first thing in his ear was chinese government propaganda, being fed to him by one of the league's 30 managing partners) are exactly what we read them to be; the chinese government just wasn't willing to take the win.

morey's tweet was deleted immediately; everyone who was involved (even tangentially) apologized immediately; that could have been the end of it...except the chinese government doesn't respect ceasefires. which, again, is the reason why the people of hong kong are fighting to keep the chinese government out of their legal system.
   281. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:51 PM (#5888330)
I'm surprised at how aggressive the Chinese gov't has been here. I think they had a win already.
   282. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:57 PM (#5888333)
Yeah, I think I'm with snuggles here; I think even this "principled" stand is about money. Once China went into full teardown mode, Silver/NBA took that L and are now doing damage control to not lose anything more here. IOW, this new stand would have meant more if it was taken when there was still anything on the line to lose with China.

For the record, I also don't find myself disappointed with the NBA here even if I completely disagree with how they handled it; any expectation that any company or industry is going to stand for the "right" thing over money is probably just naive optimism. I realize how cynical that sounds - but nothing is an absolute, so it's not like I don't hope to be wrong about that every chance I can.

Although Silver isn't Stern, I still think this quote from Stern does a pretty good job of explaining the NBA's reactions here:
“Believe me, the China situation bothers me,” the former commissioner told Sports Illustrated for a story published in November 2006. “And a voice at home (his wife, Diane Bock Stern) reminds me about it all the time. But at the end of the day, I have a responsibility to my owners to make money. I can never forget that, no matter what my personal feelings might be.”


BTW, I pulled that from this new Athletic piece, which was much better than the last one they tried.
   283. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 09, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5888345)
"The de-Kobe-ing of Jayson Tatum has begun" is quite the click-baity headline for a certain subset of folks.
   284. jmurph Posted: October 09, 2019 at 02:34 PM (#5888346)
"The de-Kobe-ing of Jayson Tatum has begun" is quite the click-baity headline for a certain subset of folks.

Yeah that entire narrative is super lame, and I should be roughly the target audience for it.
   285. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 09, 2019 at 03:12 PM (#5888350)
The most annoying part is that I'm very interested about how Tatum is trying to shift his game, how well it will work, and what that will mean for his ceiling and the Celtics over the next few years, but I would much prefer to just hear about that than get it filtered through a Mamba Mentality lens.
   286. my email address is hashtag 57i66135 Posted: October 09, 2019 at 03:31 PM (#5888354)
“Believe me, the China situation bothers me,” the former commissioner told Sports Illustrated for a story published in November 2006. “And a voice at home (his wife, Diane Bock Stern) reminds me about it all the time. But at the end of the day, I have a responsibility to my owners to make money. I can never forget that, no matter what my personal feelings might be.”
this isn't about profitability; the NBA is profitable with, or without, china. while the NBA is more profitable with china than it is without china, being in china is not a necessity.

this is about greed.
   287. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 03:44 PM (#5888357)
this isn't about profitability

this is about greed.


Ummmm.
   288. The Good Face Posted: October 09, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5888358)
this isn't about profitability; the NBA is profitable with, or without, china. while the NBA is more profitable with china than it is without china, being in china is not a necessity.

this is about greed.


Corporations are not on your side, or anyone's side really. If doing the "right" thing from a given perspective will make them more money, that's what they'll do. If groveling in front of a brutal dictatorship will make them more money, they'll do that instead. Vociferously stand up for LGBT rights? You bet! Police speech for the folks genociding Uighurs and selling their organs? No problem! The thing a lot of people overlook about woke capital is the CAPITAL.

In this case though, I'm starting to think the NBA may have miscalculated. Churchill's old quote comes to mind; "You were given a choice between dishonor and war. You chose dishonor and you will have war."
   289. aberg Posted: October 09, 2019 at 04:00 PM (#5888361)
In this case though, I'm starting to think the NBA may have miscalculated. Churchill's old quote comes to mind; "You were given a choice between dishonor and war. You chose dishonor and you will have war."


That's how I read it. They chose dishonor, but didn't follow through (by ousting Morey or otherwise punishing him) when it was apparent that the Chinese government wasn't going to accept the apology.
   290. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 09, 2019 at 04:01 PM (#5888362)
ISTM that the NBA realized that the Chicoms weren't going to accept the apology, and decided to rip off the bandaid with the second statement. So yeah, they lose twice.
   291. CFBF's Overflowing Pathos Posted: October 09, 2019 at 06:51 PM (#5888454)
Here's Lowe's annual tiers column, which I assume is probably banned in China at the moment.
   292. If on a winter's night a new father Posted: October 09, 2019 at 08:33 PM (#5888519)
Lowe's annual tiers column
If you're going to do a more-or-less proper write up of 26 teams (I laughed, but I don't count that joke about the Pistons as a write up), why not actually discuss every team?
   293. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 09, 2019 at 08:55 PM (#5888533)
If you're going to do a more-or-less proper write up of 26 teams (I laughed, but I don't count that joke about the Pistons as a write up), why not actually discuss every team?

Who wants to talk about Charlotte? Or Cleveland? I'd certainly rather see more about Memphis than about New York, though.
   294. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 09, 2019 at 11:09 PM (#5888577)
Zion's shot chart is a work of art.
   295. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: October 10, 2019 at 03:20 AM (#5888717)
Lowe: One of the things he is good at is pointing out variables/uncertainty. The Golden State material is probably the best example of that in the piece. I agree with most of his takes, including some of the doubts about Denver.

I wonder if Booey will report tonight's Jazz score like he did after their first preseason game. Ha.

   296. . Posted: October 10, 2019 at 07:16 AM (#5888731)
I would be interested to see what would happen if a player said something.


Yeah, no -- LeBron's gonna shut up and dribble on this one.
   297. jmurph Posted: October 10, 2019 at 09:26 AM (#5888755)
Anybody see any of OKC the other night? They're kind of... fun? It's weird, I feel freed to root for Chris Paul again for the first time in a looooong time. They were playing all 3 point guards at once- Paul, Schroder, and SGA. Paul/Adams makes a lot of sense? Gallo is pretty good? It's all very odd, but I find it to be kind of a likable mix of talent, minus Schroder, whose game is pretty ugly.

So the general consensus is that Denver/LAL/LAC/Utah/GS/Houston are locks to make the playoffs. Portland probably pretty close to a lock. With the obvious caveat that they're presumably shopping everyone with the possible exception of SGA, I think OKC could easily be in the mix for 7 or 8 with San Antonio, etc.
   298. The Good Face Posted: October 10, 2019 at 09:28 AM (#5888757)
Zion's shot chart is a work of art.


It's nuts. There were times it still looked like he was going up against kids last night. Except the kids were actual NBA players.
   299. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: October 10, 2019 at 09:30 AM (#5888758)
You're the first person all year I've seen suggest Portland is anywhere near a lock. Hollinger has them out of the playoffs, Lowe has them just barely in.

I don't think Golden State is a lock, either. About 65 healthy games from Curry is going to be a requirement for them, IMO, and he has to carry a lot more of the load than he ever has before (and will be harder to hide on defense, too). Depth is a problem, and the Western Conference is so tough. In a way I'm fascinated to see how Steve Kerr does with a merely good team.

I know reasonable health of stars has to be assumed or else there's no such thing as a lock in the NBA and little point to making predictions at all, but it seems to me that Golden State and the Lakers are in especially precarious positions, leaning heavily on aging superstars who have struggled with injuries lately.
   300. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: October 10, 2019 at 09:31 AM (#5888759)
If you're going to do a more-or-less proper write up of 26 teams (I laughed, but I don't count that joke about the Pistons as a write up), why not actually discuss every team?


Being a Pistons fan is painful even when it comes to reading articles during the day at work.

Lowe put Luke Kennard in one of his six players to watch column this year, so maybe he took that into account when writing his column.
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