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Thursday, September 26, 2019

OT - NBA thread (pre-season)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about baseball, and this thread is the only thing keeping this site alive.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 26, 2019 at 09:56 AM | 762 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   401. jmurph Posted: October 11, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5889373)
All their guys besides Capela are old and getting older. Who is going to improve on that team?

Agree. I'll probably have them 4th in the West, I think, when I do picks?
   402. JC in DC Posted: October 11, 2019 at 01:35 PM (#5889376)
I think Fiz is a good candidate because every projection system I've seen has the Knicks as either the worst or second worst team and the Knicks brass very clearly believes they've constructed a team that will be competitive.

I don't believe them. I think they're pushing product and selling "we're not tanking again." I think they're not quite tanking a la last year, but they're in (young) talent acquisition mode, looking to develop a few players, move other guys (who are movable) and looking to lose.

That said, that still might make your point: Fiz could be sacrificed as the "We weren't tanking and expected more" Girardian victim.
   403. tshipman Posted: October 11, 2019 at 01:45 PM (#5889379)
I don't believe them. I think they're pushing product and selling "we're not tanking again." I think they're not quite tanking a la last year, but they're in (young) talent acquisition mode, looking to develop a few players, move other guys (who are movable) and looking to lose.

That said, that still might make your point: Fiz could be sacrificed as the "We weren't tanking and expected more" Girardian victim.


I think basically any coach on a bad team is at risk of being fired at any time.

It probably shouldn't be that way, but it is.
   404. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 11, 2019 at 01:59 PM (#5889386)
I think basically any coach on a bad team is at risk of being fired at any time.

Totally agree, which is why Boylen being virtually bullet-proof this year is so unique. Basically, being so ####### terrible and insane early on bought him more job security than someone in his situation normally would have. IOW, the Bulls are an entirely ###### up org that does some things right and usually for the wrong reasons - like, they're going to be pretty entertaining this year but most definitely isn't by design.
   405. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 11, 2019 at 03:26 PM (#5889426)
Repost for flip, wacky predictions contest, scoring details on last page:


1. How many games will Joel Embiid play?
2. Who will be the first coach fired?
3. How many total blocks plus steals will Zion Williamson have?
4. How many 3-pointers will Ben Simmons make: 0, 1-4, 5-19, 20-81, or 82+?
5. Who are two players who will make the All-Star Game for the first time?
6. How many games will the Milwaukee Bucks win by 20+ points?
7. How many home losses will the Denver Nuggets have?

P1. Who will have more free throws made minus free throws missed: Markelle Fultz or Dwight Howard?
P2. Will a Rocket lead the league in field goals missed?
P3. Who will average more points per game: new Celtics PG Kemba Walker or old Celtics PG Kyrie Irving?
P4. Which NBA Finalist will win more games: the Toronto Raptors or Golden State Warriors?
P5. Which LA team will win more games: the Clippers or Lakers?
P6. Who will have more dunks: Rudy Gobert or Giannis Antetokounmpo?


To me the weirdest thing about RAPTOR's numbers is that over its 6 year lifetime, Kevin Durant's *best* season by their metrics ranks only 34th overall (rate stat). They love them some Chris Paul and definitely favor distributors in general, but also, Jusuf Nurkic's 2019 is ranked higher than that!
   406. jmurph Posted: October 11, 2019 at 03:36 PM (#5889430)
On the Woj/Lowe tv show that was turned into a Lowe Post episode, they discussed possible Kyle Lowry trades if Toronto explores that later in the year. Woj threw out the Wolves as a potential destination, which I kind of love as an idea. Probably too much for the Wolves to hope Toronto would be interested in Wiggins? But maybe something around Teague's expiring/Dieng for Lowry/something else could work.
   407. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 11, 2019 at 03:38 PM (#5889432)
Woj threw out the Wolves as a potential destination, which I kind of love as an idea.

Yeah, I'd be on board. I love Lowry, a lot, and I think he'd make Towns so much better. A point guard who can make post entry passes! Imagine that!

But speaking with my Raptors fan hat on, I hope they keep Lowry, because he is awesome, and should retire as the Greatest Barney Of All Time.
   408. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 11, 2019 at 03:47 PM (#5889438)
538's RAPTOR: I dunno, I'd didn't have any trouble working with their various pages + have spent a little time looking at what they posted on github (includes some component data, including how a given player impacts their team's pace).
I have some concerns but it's an interesting stab at things. Not sure I like some of their defensive rankings... from eyeballing people, it might overrate prolific thefts (per their dictum that steals correlate with other types of positive defensive play, though I don't think that's true at the extremes) and there's some other outliers that stand out. Looks like the relationship b/w +/- and $ value may have changed markedly. Likely overrating playmakers (though I get their logic).
   409. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 11, 2019 at 03:52 PM (#5889441)
Lowry just signed an extension. While that doesn't preclude a trade, it's hard for me to see the Raptors trading him without his consent, and with all due respect to the resdients of Minneapolis, I have no idea why he'd prefer to be on the Wolves than the Raptors.

Raptors are my sleeper team this year I think. Good coach, good GM, they're not going to give much playing time to bad players, which matters. Why can't they grab 3rd in the East?
   410. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: October 11, 2019 at 03:53 PM (#5889442)
I think this quote from the Press Box podcast on The Ringer backs up my feeling that this was just a case of Simmons trying to be smarter than everyone else. And not some pressure from advertisers or HBO. It's pretty much completely opposite to Simmons' 'oh it's so complicated, and the history, and the layers, the layers' take. And in general, I think The Ringer staff have been pretty free to hammer China over this, much more so than any other sports coverage provider, which I don't think would be the case if anyone was giving The Ringer marching orders:

(In response to audio clip about Kerr's rambling statement):
I want to push back on that, a little bit. This isn't complicated. NBA salary stuff is complicated, but somehow we all figure that shit out. Any of us, who have lived through the cold war - and that includes you and me, David, and Steve Kerr - get the broad strokes of this story pretty quickly.

This is an authoritarian regime, that is leaning on, and attempting to reduce the freedoms of a semi-autonomous city state within it. The End.
   411. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: October 11, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5889443)
Terry Stotts is my stealth firing candidate.


It's not officially the holiday season until the first "Terry Stotts Is On the Hot Seat" article appears.

I suppose sooner or later Portland will have a REALLY bad fall/winter and he'll get fired, and then he'll have to endure the suffering of being unemployed for about ten minutes.
   412. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: October 11, 2019 at 04:04 PM (#5889447)
1. How many games will Joel Embiid play? 47
2. Who will be the first coach fired? Brett Brown
3. How many total blocks plus steals will Zion Williamson have? 171
4. How many 3-pointers will Ben Simmons make: 0, 1-4, 5-19, 20-81, or 82+? 20-81
5. Who are two players who will make the All-Star Game for the first time? Bam Adebayo, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
6. How many games will the Milwaukee Bucks win by 20+ points? 5
7. How many home losses will the Denver Nuggets have? 4

P1. Who will have more free throws made minus free throws missed: Markelle Fultz or Dwight Howard? Fultz
P2. Will a Rocket lead the league in field goals missed? No
P3. Who will average more points per game: new Celtics PG Kemba Walker or old Celtics PG Kyrie Irving? Irving
P4. Which NBA Finalist will win more games: the Toronto Raptors or Golden State Warriors? Warriors
P5. Which LA team will win more games: the Clippers or Lakers? Cippers
P6. Who will have more dunks: Rudy Gobert or Giannis Antetokounmpo? Giannis
   413. tshipman Posted: October 11, 2019 at 04:15 PM (#5889451)
1. How many games will Joel Embiid play? 47
2. Who will be the first coach fired? Brett Brown


Muy picante.
   414. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 11, 2019 at 04:32 PM (#5889457)
The Toronto court's new dino footprint motif is really something. I'm not 100% sold on it being a good design, but I'm delighted they went for it.
   415. . Posted: October 11, 2019 at 07:22 PM (#5889516)
Nor was Steve Kerr ever what he was advertised as.

Shut up and watch Steph dribble, Steve.
   416. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 11, 2019 at 09:09 PM (#5889554)
The Toronto court's new dino footprint motif is really something. I'm not 100% sold on it being a good design, but I'm delighted they went for it.

I like the Grizz throwback to the Vancouver days.
   417. smileyy Posted: October 11, 2019 at 11:23 PM (#5889656)
So, Zion Williamson...
   418. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: October 12, 2019 at 02:54 AM (#5889684)
I'm late to the WNBA conversation but I'd like to toss in that this was the first season that I really followed it the way I do with other sports (ie picking a team, watching most of their games, attending a few, following the standings, reading news etc) and it was really enjoyable. The league has a lot of really compelling stars right now and it definitely scratched the itch for off-NBA-season basketball. And the Finals were great-- Delle Donne is so damn good and Jonquel Jones is right behind her.
   419. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 12, 2019 at 11:54 AM (#5889708)
Howard Bryant has some thoughts on NBA players and Hong Kong. I think they are worth reading.
   420. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: October 12, 2019 at 12:37 PM (#5889712)
agreed. thanks for bringing it up.
Full Dissident
@hbryant42
1) It’s not a pro-China take. Nor a pro-corporate one. It’s a response to how this is unfolding for the players *before* even getting to the events over there. People who want the players to leap into this long-standing international fight often didn’t back them here.
...
5) African American players decided to advocate for black people in large numbers for the first time in half a century, were absolutely vilified for it. Media companies changed their business models, people lost their jobs, positions. Their advocacy was not celebrated.
...
8) Now, one tweet from a white exec who was not in any prominent way publicly supportive of human rights advocacy here, has now erased these edicts that have smothered a gen of black players? What’s really being said is: “That wasn’t real. Your issues weren’t important. This is.”
   421. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 12, 2019 at 01:24 PM (#5889722)
I think Bryant nailed it.
   422. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: October 12, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5889732)
[419] ...had not considered things from that perspective. Good stuff.
   423. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: October 12, 2019 at 01:58 PM (#5889734)
[417] A thing I love about basketball is that the Zion doesn’t have enough skill people are about to look as silly as the Luka isn’t athletic enough people.
   424. puck Posted: October 12, 2019 at 02:27 PM (#5889748)
What's the context for Bryant's statement? I assume something happened since Silver's statement. Are people criticizing Harden or the players for not protesting or something?
   425. puck Posted: October 12, 2019 at 02:31 PM (#5889752)
What's interesting about the Zion highights from the preseason game vs the jazz is it looks exactly like one of his Duke highlight films. Following a shot for a putback, the same sorts of cuts around players, the combo of speed and strength (he's a little like a mini shaq there...not nearly as big, but similar weird combo of size, strength and quickness relative to his position on the floor), the nice touch around the hoop as he's finishing moves.

Granted it's preaseason. But I did not quite expect that.
   426. tshipman Posted: October 12, 2019 at 03:35 PM (#5889789)
Re: Zion:

I'm absolutely blown away at his finishing ability. The variety and skill he shows around the hoop is very, very impressive. Like, before the pre-season, I thought Zion was going to be a 70%+ finisher at the hoop, but I thought he'd be doing it on dunks, not Steve Nash-like layup moves.

To be sure, he looks mostly lost on defense, and the outside shot needs a lot of work, but he's ready to step in and be a star on offense.

***

Kind of agree and disagree with the Bryant take.

People are disappointed in LeBron and Kerr because they want those guys to be leaders. It's not enough for leaders to focus on their own backyard. I absolutely understand the confusion and desire to not get mixed up in an area that isn't close to home, but LeBron and Kerr have positioned themselves as leaders.

They don't have to do anything. LeBron can keep on selling sneakers in China, and continue to speak out for black causes in the US. But I want LeBron to be better. I admire LeBron and I hope he takes a principled stand because I think well of him. I want Kerr to speak out. Not because they have to, or because it would be easy for them to do so, but because I admire them and I want them to look out for their brother man when it's hard.

I'm willing to be disappointed here, and not blame them, but I do want them to be better.
   427. Hot Wheeling American Posted: October 12, 2019 at 03:42 PM (#5889796)
What's the context for Bryant's statement? I assume something happened since Silver's statement. Are people criticizing Harden or the players for not protesting or something?

Yes. Jackals like 415 here snapping at the heels of personalities they already don’t like.
   428. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: October 12, 2019 at 05:25 PM (#5889836)
I mean if #415 doesn't show up on your screen as "[ Ignored Comment ]," you have nobody to blame put yourself. Don't let yourself get wound up by SBB, and don't point to one of his posts as any kind of representative of anything or anybody.
   429. Hot Wheeling American Posted: October 12, 2019 at 06:30 PM (#5889870)
Was easier to point to this page rather than pull a tweet from any right wing concern troll going after this ‘garbage league’, but ok.
   430. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: October 12, 2019 at 11:44 PM (#5890034)
this may seem hyperbolic, but i don't think opponents will score a single point against the sixers in the 4th quarter all season.
   431. JC in DC Posted: October 13, 2019 at 12:22 AM (#5890036)
I honestly can't figure people who are surprised by Zion. How did you watch this kid and think anything other than he's going to be great?
   432. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 13, 2019 at 12:47 AM (#5890038)
I'm confused. Do these Zion truthers exist? Certainly on this board it seemed unanimous that he was going to be great and it seemed universal in what I read from the media too.

There has definitely been a debate over what he'll look like *this season* but I don't recall anyone skeptical about his long term potential.
   433. smileyy Posted: October 13, 2019 at 01:23 AM (#5890041)
I expected Zion to be great. I didn't expect him to shoot 75% from the floor, getting to and finishing at the rim like he has. Preseason and all, but damn...
   434. Harlond Posted: October 13, 2019 at 06:47 AM (#5890052)
The NBA league pass page is trying to discourage me from buying by telling me that in my viewing area I won’t be able to watch Wizards game. Not sure it’s working.

I’m sure this has been covered before, but are you league pass users pretty satisfied?
   435. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 13, 2019 at 08:25 AM (#5890056)
I’m sure this has been covered before, but are you league pass users pretty satisfied?

I live in Toronto, and I use a DNS based VPN to watch League Pass, and it’s great. I can watch everything, and, because it’s the international feed, I get the in-arena package, meaning Quick Change and Red Panda and the dance routines and stuff.
   436. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: October 13, 2019 at 08:54 AM (#5890060)
I live in NYC and love League Pass. I get the sense a lot of people here aren’t big fans though.
   437. sardonic Posted: October 13, 2019 at 10:24 AM (#5890065)
I had a lot of trouble getting League Pass to Chromecast to my TV a couple seasons ago. Might be better now or not an issue.
   438. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 13, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5890071)
Yeah, the client you use for League Pass is pretty important in how satisfied you are gonna be with the service. I use my ancient Apple TV or the PlayStation 4. Neither is good from a UX perspective but the streams work pretty well.
   439. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: October 13, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5890073)
I was thinking how disturbing this whole China thing is -- and how much I like my local bar, which already has league pass. Reckon this year I'ma give my money to the local bar instead of the NBA. We'll see if my liver (and sense of self righteousness ;)) holds up.
   440. puck Posted: October 13, 2019 at 12:41 PM (#5890090)
I honestly can't figure people who are surprised by Zion. How did you watch this kid and think anything other than he's going to be great?


I have no idea if I am included by this comment, but if so, I did not doubt that he has an immensely high ceiling and even floor. To me, there's no real comps, not Barkley and not Grandmama, as he's bigger than either and just as quick if not quicker. But he's also basically a college soph and I allowed for some time for adjustment. He was said to be out of shape in summer league but looked like a player who needed to figure out how to play against NBA athletes. He's looked completely different in the preseason highlights.
   441. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: October 13, 2019 at 05:19 PM (#5890122)
I was thinking how disturbing this whole China thing is -- and how much I like my local bar, which already has league pass. Reckon this year I'ma give my money to the local bar instead of the NBA. We'll see if my liver (and sense of self righteousness ;)) holds up.

If not, there is always piracy.
   442. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 13, 2019 at 10:04 PM (#5890190)
RE: China

We're all complicit in this. I'm typing this post on an Apple iMac, I watch loads of Disney-owned properties, I watch the NBA, I listen to some ESPN podcasts, I use Reddit, I use Google, and when I travel, I stay at Sheratons and Marriotts. Like a billion of other people, I would like to see things change, but I also don't want all the things I like to go away or get more expensive, I don't want jobs to disappear.

What am I supposed to do? I didn't personally tie myself to China (and family history motivates me to be very anti-Chinese Communist), but it's very, very difficult to live a 21st century life without doing something that benefits some company with ties to China. And that's just this issue. There's a bunch of other issues I care about, too!

And even if I decide to leave the 21st century behind, that doesn't actually change anything about the world, only about how I live in it. The status quo remains unchanged and unchallenged because I chose not to live in it rather than change it.

It's all very exhausting.
   443. tshipman Posted: October 13, 2019 at 10:19 PM (#5890201)
I'm so happy for Lonzo that he is playing with Zion. Just the perfect situation for him to go to.
   444. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: October 13, 2019 at 11:50 PM (#5890247)
I'm so happy for Lonzo that he is playing with Zion. Just the perfect situation for him to go to.
i've never felt so attacked in this thread....
   445. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: October 13, 2019 at 11:55 PM (#5890249)
What am I supposed to do?

first step:
read "The Russian propaganda guide to stealing your roommate’s burrito"

second step:
make the bastards eat the whole ####### thing when you get the chance.
   446. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 14, 2019 at 01:03 AM (#5890278)
"The Russian propaganda guide to stealing your roommate’s burrito"
This made my life better.
   447. spivey Posted: October 14, 2019 at 08:46 AM (#5890297)
I was thinking a bit about who could be Milwaukee this year - a great, great year out of nowhere. I think the Pelicans are probably the best bet. Rookies often take time to adjust, and I'm sure Zion's shooting, turnovers, and defense will all improve with time. But I think he's going to be a great bucket creator from the get go, and they have some pretty interesting pieces around him.

Miami could be up there too, if Butler plays like he did 2 years ago. But even still, I don't see a path for them to be a contender.
   448. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:10 AM (#5890305)
deep dive into how travel and lack of sleep affects NBA players, most noteworthy that in a small sample of NBA players they found that their testosterone levels dropped from the 88th percentile to the 34th due to sleep deprivation.
   449. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:29 AM (#5890314)
new orleans is a possibility - zion is a hoss and jrue is better than people realize.
   450. jmurph Posted: October 14, 2019 at 10:01 AM (#5890328)
Yeah I think New Orleans are going to be one of the 11ish teams in the West that expect to make the playoffs. It should be a really interesting year, especially in the 5-11 range.
   451. jmurph Posted: October 14, 2019 at 10:32 AM (#5890342)
Hollinger's Atlantic Division preview is up.
   452. The Good Face Posted: October 14, 2019 at 11:01 AM (#5890349)
I'm absolutely blown away at his finishing ability. The variety and skill he shows around the hoop is very, very impressive. Like, before the pre-season, I thought Zion was going to be a 70%+ finisher at the hoop, but I thought he'd be doing it on dunks, not Steve Nash-like layup moves.


He basically has the skillset and athleticism of an elite 90s 2 guard, only in the body of, well, nobody's really had that body before. The explosion, agility and body control are astonishing in a man that big. They'd be amazing in a 200lb guy.

I worry about him holding up though. He's putting a hell of a pounding on his knees and ankles and he generates so much force... how long can his tendons and ligaments take it? I mean this is a guy who planted so hard in college he made a shoe explode.
   453. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 14, 2019 at 03:13 PM (#5890401)
Bulls are up to 8th in Lowe's League Pass ratings (part 2). I think I agree, though overall he's still a little higher on them than I am (in one of his other previews).
   454. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: October 14, 2019 at 07:06 PM (#5890451)
I get that the LP rankings are just a fun, subjective thing and I like that Lowe does it (as well as goofy stuff like what court logos he likes). But I really cannot see New Orleans as low as 9 in any "Do you want to check this team out?" ranking. I think they are Top 5-material in that, given the presence of Williamson and all the new guys from the Davis deal.
   455. Moeball Posted: October 14, 2019 at 07:49 PM (#5890458)
3 questions:

1) Is Lonzo going to average 10 assists per game?

2) Will he be healthy enough to play enough games for that to even matter?

3) For those projecting Zion to have barely over 100 blocks/steals, are you suspecting he'll be injured for a good chunk of the season? Looked like the range on that is running from 105-250 thereabouts.
   456. KronicFatigue Posted: October 14, 2019 at 08:48 PM (#5890502)
It's all very exhausting.


Do you watch The Good Place? It's kinda about this, and in a podcast the creator (good old Fire Joe Morgan's Ken Tremendous) touched on the subject of Antinatalism. I had never heard of it before, but it makes too much sense for my exhausted self, and just came up in the New Yorker.

I'll shut up and watch people dribble now, but man, everything is so exhausting, all the time.
   457. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:20 PM (#5890519)
Do you watch The Good Place?
Yes, I do, and the show HAS gotten me to think more broadly about what it means to live a moral life. (Because of that show, I actually picked up Todd May's "A Decent Life" on audiobook. At some point soon, I'll start it up.)
   458. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 14, 2019 at 09:24 PM (#5890522)
Nice username and comment synergy, KF.
   459. CFBF's Overflowing Pathos Posted: October 14, 2019 at 10:13 PM (#5890560)
   460. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 14, 2019 at 10:45 PM (#5890583)
LeBron's comments on Moreygate are...not super-duper.
It's certainly fresh blood for the stick-to-sports crowd.
   461. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 14, 2019 at 11:16 PM (#5890590)
It took me a while, but I've finally found my "why is everyone counting out the Celtics, how do they not see the upside here" groove this offseason. Granted, it was weird last season to have consensus actually believe in them as much as I did, and that ended badly, so maybe I should just lean into logical fallacy and be glad. But! Tatum is trying to adjust his shot selection in exactly the right ways and was possibly Team USA's best player until his injury derailed their winning ways; Jaylen Brown has started making left-handed shots and passes (seriously, his abrupt growth as a passer starting part way through the world cup run was downright head-scratching, especially if it lasts); Gordon Hayward looks far more athletic and decisive than he did at any point last year. If those three all pop and the chemistry is good (it's perfectly reasonable to see either or both as unlikely, but not prohibitively so), they have a shot at "best third-best wing in league history" and an outside shot at contention.

Hmm—this seems like a good time to derail my homerism, because now I'm really curious who the best third-best wing in league history is.
   462. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: October 14, 2019 at 11:49 PM (#5890593)
Hmm—this seems like a good time to derail my homerism, because now I'm really curious who the best third-best wing in league history is.
tracy mcgrady from the late 90s raptors.

iguodala with GSW the last few years is an option.

turkoglu, with the mid-00s kings.

kukoc.
   463. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 15, 2019 at 12:02 AM (#5890594)
Whichever of Kawhi/Manu/Danny Green was worst between 2011-2014 is another option.
   464. tshipman Posted: October 15, 2019 at 12:15 AM (#5890596)
LeBron's comments on Moreygate are...not super-duper.


Qing James.
   465. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: October 15, 2019 at 04:07 AM (#5890611)
"Chinese buy sneakers too."
   466. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 15, 2019 at 08:01 AM (#5890615)
He’s lost the Mandate of Heaven.
   467. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 15, 2019 at 08:53 AM (#5890621)
The new Dunc'd on Basketball has a long segment on the China/NBA that I think is quite good/thoughtful (guest: Bill Bishop (Sinocism))
   468. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 15, 2019 at 09:13 AM (#5890626)
Sinocism is great, and Bishop does a good job on the Dunc'd on pod. Highly recommended.
   469. . Posted: October 15, 2019 at 09:35 AM (#5890634)
As I've noted about the NBA and Steve Kerr already, there was no reason to expect anything more from LeBron, and he delivered. I've never, and will never, understand the thought process that ascribes to these single-minded people anything more than single-mindedness. "People want LeBron to be a leader??" Huh???????? Who's looking to LeBron to be a "leader," other than fanboys?

Charles Barkley said rather famously long ago, when he was in the prime of his career, that he wasn't a role model. Now that's intelligence. Unfortunately, not only did that lesson not sink in, the social media age has made it go in the opposite direction.

With very rare exceptions, these are entertainers and business people. They are nothing more. I assume that when people go to the movies, or the opera, or a music festival that they don't expect the performers to do anything other than perform and exhibit their craft. Who gives a #### about the politics of some guy who plays Hamlet at the local Shakespeare festival? Why they then in turn wouldn't apply the same standards to athletes and coaches (*)-- who, all else equal, are even less likely to have sensible and informed worldly opinions -- is among the biggest mysteries out there.

In any event, the start of the NBA season is typically a time of renewal for this fan and this year is no different. I will enjoy the competition and the tribulations of my team and the atmosphere in the arena and all the rest as much this year as in any year. I think less of Adam Silver and Steve Kerr and LeBron James now, but I never really thought of them outside their professional roles much to begin with.

(*) To adults, glorified gym teachers.

   470. The Good Face Posted: October 15, 2019 at 10:07 AM (#5890645)
LeBron's comments on Moreygate are...not super-duper.


Shut up and evaluate dribblers!
   471. jmurph Posted: October 15, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5890704)
Yeah, the client you use for League Pass is pretty important in how satisfied you are gonna be with the service. I use my ancient Apple TV or the PlayStation 4. Neither is good from a UX perspective but the streams work pretty well.

To get back to this from yesterday, I stream League Pass through the NBA app on my Fire TV, and I noticed last week they seem to have added in a feature to actually let you watch games that are being broadcast on the NBA Network through the same app, which is convenient for flipping back and forth between games without having to close out of that app and launch your TV app of choice (you of course need a cable/streaming service log-in to verify you have access to the NBA Network). Really my only complaint about LP, aside from occasional glitchiness,* has been that. I wish they would add the same feature for the ESPN//TNT games, too.

*Sunday, I think, for the entire 1st quarter of the Celtics/Magic game, there was a loop of (I think) Vucevic working out pregame instead of the live game feed.
   472. JJ1986 Posted: October 15, 2019 at 01:12 PM (#5890707)
I usually watch games as replays at lunch at work and don't particularly like the way it works in browsers. It's unusable in Firefox. It's annoying that games don't save your place in the timeline if you close them (and often I have had games jump back to the beginning while viewing them). I don't use it as much, but I've found it works much better Chromecasting from the app on my phone.
   473. jmurph Posted: October 15, 2019 at 01:46 PM (#5890714)
I mean if we're asking for new features, I'd love to be able to start a game from the beginning even if I was tuning in mid-game, essentially like a DVR. I would use the hell out of that.
   474. aberg Posted: October 15, 2019 at 01:54 PM (#5890718)
tracy mcgrady from the late 90s raptors.

iguodala with GSW the last few years is an option.

turkoglu, with the mid-00s kings.

kukoc.


Satch Sanders would be high on the list. Or Heinsohn toward the end of his career when the Celts had Havlicek and Sam Jones.

Depending on how you arrange players at positions, Gail Goodrich might be the third wing on some late 60s/early 70s Lakers teams.

Showtime had Wilkes, Cooper, and Worthy at the same time.

Other candidates: Vinnie Johnson, Billy Cunningham. Kind of strange that the Heatles never had a good third wing (Battier?)
   475. aberg Posted: October 15, 2019 at 02:06 PM (#5890723)
1. How many games will Joel Embiid play? 66
2. Who will be the first coach fired? Scott Brooks
3. How many total blocks plus steals will Zion Williamson have? 160
4. How many 3-pointers will Ben Simmons make: 0, 1-4, 5-19, 20-81, or 82+? 5-19
5. Who are two players who will make the All-Star Game for the first time?
6. How many games will the Milwaukee Bucks win by 20+ points? 8
7. How many home losses will the Denver Nuggets have? 7

P1. Who will have more free throws made minus free throws missed: Markelle Fultz or Dwight Howard? Howard
P2. Will a Rocket lead the league in field goals missed? No
P3. Who will average more points per game: new Celtics PG Kemba Walker or old Celtics PG Kyrie Irving? Irving
P4. Which NBA Finalist will win more games: the Toronto Raptors or Golden State Warriors? Warriors
P5. Which LA team will win more games: the Clippers or Lakers? Clippers
P6. Who will have more dunks: Rudy Gobert or Giannis Antetokounmpo? Gobert
   476. jmurph Posted: October 15, 2019 at 02:09 PM (#5890724)
You missed the new all stars question, berg.
   477. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 15, 2019 at 02:22 PM (#5890725)
I mean if we're asking for new features, I'd love to be able to start a game from the beginning even if I was tuning in mid-game, essentially like a DVR. I would use the hell out of that.

mlbtv allows that. When you go to a game, you can go live or start from beginning.
   478. aberg Posted: October 15, 2019 at 02:33 PM (#5890726)
You missed the new all stars question, berg.


Making me do the hard work...
1. How many games will Joel Embiid play? 66
2. Who will be the first coach fired? Scott Brooks
3. How many total blocks plus steals will Zion Williamson have? 160
4. How many 3-pointers will Ben Simmons make: 0, 1-4, 5-19, 20-81, or 82+? 5-19
5. Who are two players who will make the All-Star Game for the first time? Mike Conley, Pascal Siakam
6. How many games will the Milwaukee Bucks win by 20+ points? 8
7. How many home losses will the Denver Nuggets have? 7

P1. Who will have more free throws made minus free throws missed: Markelle Fultz or Dwight Howard? Howard
P2. Will a Rocket lead the league in field goals missed? No
P3. Who will average more points per game: new Celtics PG Kemba Walker or old Celtics PG Kyrie Irving? Irving
P4. Which NBA Finalist will win more games: the Toronto Raptors or Golden State Warriors? Warriors
P5. Which LA team will win more games: the Clippers or Lakers? Clippers
P6. Who will have more dunks: Rudy Gobert or Giannis Antetokounmpo? Gobert
   479. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 15, 2019 at 05:12 PM (#5890775)
1. How many games will Joel Embiid play? 65
2. Who will be the first coach fired? Fizdale
3. How many total blocks plus steals will Zion Williamson have? 171
4. How many 3-pointers will Ben Simmons make: 0, 1-4, 5-19, 20-81, or 82+? 20-81
5. Who are two players who will make the All-Star Game for the first time? Mitchell, Siakam
6. How many games will the Milwaukee Bucks win by 20+ points? 7
7. How many home losses will the Denver Nuggets have? 5

P1. Who will have more free throws made minus free throws missed: Markelle Fultz or Dwight Howard? Howard
P2. Will a Rocket lead the league in field goals missed? No
P3. Who will average more points per game: new Celtics PG Kemba Walker or old Celtics PG Kyrie Irving? Irving
P4. Which NBA Finalist will win more games: the Toronto Raptors or Golden State Warriors? Warriors. Having said that, I think people are overestimating their floor - things could go real wrong.
P5. Which LA team will win more games: the Clippers or Lakers? Clippers.
P6. Who will have more dunks: Rudy Gobert or Giannis Antetokounmpo? Giannis

These are hard questions.
   480. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 15, 2019 at 05:33 PM (#5890778)
1. How many games will Joel Embiid play? 69
2. Who will be the first coach fired? Mike-Dan Tony
3. How many total blocks plus steals will Zion Williamson have? 162
4. How many 3-pointers will Ben Simmons make: 0, 1-4, 5-19, 20-81, or 82+? 5-19
5. Who are two players who will make the All-Star Game for the first time? Tatum, Doncic
6. How many games will the Milwaukee Bucks win by 20+ points? 15
7. How many home losses will the Denver Nuggets have? 6

P1. Who will have more free throws made minus free throws missed: Markelle Fultz or Dwight Howard? Howard
P2. Will a Rocket lead the league in field goals missed? No
P3. Who will average more points per game: new Celtics PG Kemba Walker or old Celtics PG Kyrie Irving? Irving
P4. Which NBA Finalist will win more games: the Toronto Raptors or Golden State Warriors? Warriors
P5. Which LA team will win more games: the Clippers or Lakers? Clippers
P6. Who will have more dunks: Rudy Gobert or Giannis Antetokounmpo? Antetokounmpo
   481. Kurt Posted: October 15, 2019 at 07:25 PM (#5890814)
While ESPN analysts and guests talked about some of these issues on the network’s airwaves, its reporting notably did little to move the story forward, a departure from its usual NBA coverage.

Meanwhile, the Twitter feed of the NBA’s most famous and best-connected reporter, Adrian Wojnarowski — usually ground zero for NBA news — was almost completely devoid of China news, although he did appear on ESPN’s television network to discuss the China story.

The self-described Worldwide Leader in Sports featured a number of stories on the topic on ESPN.com, but many of them were without bylines and attributed to ESPN’s news service, or simply “ESPN.”

In at least one case, a reporter was explicitly told to stand down on covering the story the way he wanted. Prominent NBA reporter Zach Lowe attempted to host an expert from the Council on Foreign Relations on his podcast, only to be told he couldn’t.


link
   482. stevegamer Posted: October 15, 2019 at 10:16 PM (#5890928)
Getting my contest picks in this year, as I think I missed this last year.

1. How many games will Joel Embiid play? 59
2. Who will be the first coach fired? Scott Brooks
3. How many total blocks plus steals will Zion Williamson have? 200
4. How many 3-pointers will Ben Simmons make: 0, 1-4, 5-19, 20-81, or 82+? 1-4
5. Who are two players who will make the All-Star Game for the first time? Doncic, Siakam
6. How many games will the Milwaukee Bucks win by 20+ points? 8
7. How many home losses will the Denver Nuggets have? 8

P1. Who will have more free throws made minus free throws missed: Markelle Fultz or Dwight Howard? Fultz
P2. Will a Rocket lead the league in field goals missed? Yes
P3. Who will average more points per game: new Celtics PG Kemba Walker or old Celtics PG Kyrie Irving? Irving
P4. Which NBA Finalist will win more games: the Toronto Raptors or Golden State Warriors? Raptors
P5. Which LA team will win more games: the Clippers or Lakers? Clippers.
P6. Who will have more dunks: Rudy Gobert or Giannis Antetokounmpo? Gobert
   483. tshipman Posted: October 15, 2019 at 10:16 PM (#5890929)
2. Who will be the first coach fired? Mike-Dan Tony


You really think both the Tony Brothers will be fired? Wow.
   484. Booey Posted: October 16, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5891068)
After dragging it out for a ridiculously long time, Hoopshype posted the finale of their Top 100 of the 21st Century list:

5. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Kevin Durant
3. Kobe Bryant
2. Tim Duncan
1. Joe Ingles (misspelled as "LeBron James")
   485. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 16, 2019 at 01:03 PM (#5891090)
Wiz waive personal fave Wing/square peg in a round hole Jemerrio Jones. Can't shoot, so-so dribbler, insanely good rebounder, plus passer, good locker room guy. Could easily become an better David Nwaba.
   486. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: October 16, 2019 at 01:07 PM (#5891091)
[484] Without looking, I feel like Dirk is definitely ahead of Durant and that Dirk-Kobe is at least a conversation.

EDIT: And KG was robbed.
   487. spivey Posted: October 16, 2019 at 02:15 PM (#5891110)
Garnett is the David Robinson of his generation. I don't even understand how the narrative has changed with some to have Dirk above him. I mean, Kobe shouldn't be above him either, but they play different positions so it's a bit of a murkier comp.
   488. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 16, 2019 at 02:16 PM (#5891111)
All his best offensive years were in Minnesota, and defence is less amenable to stupid internet list making.
   489. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 16, 2019 at 02:31 PM (#5891112)
Carsen Edwards went nuts last night, drilling 9 threes, 8 of them in the 3rd quarter. Preseason scoring feats against the Cavs are worth exactly as much as preseason games, of course, but the initial returns on Edwards have been a lot of fun. His release is lightning-fast and he'll pullup any time, so if he can keep hitting threes at a decent rate he seems well on his way to being a microwave scorer a la Eddie House 2.0.

Any other rookies looking good/interesting/fun in preseason play? I haven't watched much beyond the Cs games, so I'm curious about anyone really showing out so far, even though nothing really matters yet.
   490. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 16, 2019 at 02:35 PM (#5891114)
Towns went bananas on poor Goga Bitazde last night. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do now that he has a front office that understands his abilities.
   491. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: October 16, 2019 at 02:59 PM (#5891120)
489--Edwards can get crazy hot if his Purdue history means anything. His last season as a Boiler was pretty fun to watch as he would up some crazy ass shots, play defense and scream nonstop at nobody in particular. He was kind of awful for like a month but then had a hot finish including that great tournament performance. High variance type player.
   492. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: October 16, 2019 at 03:09 PM (#5891122)
Edwards was for sure a breakout performer in the NCAAs last year.

Tyler Herro looked like the best rookie on the floor against the Hawks (Reddish and De'andre Hunter didn't do much for Atlanta). He's averaging 16 ppg in preseason. If he can contribute, I'm kind of liking Miami as a team that can be Raptors-ish by playing a lot of guys that don't stink.
   493. Booey Posted: October 16, 2019 at 03:58 PM (#5891142)
Garnett is the David Robinson of his generation. I don't even understand how the narrative has changed with some to have Dirk above him.


Has it changed? From what I remember, KG was always underrated. Other than maybe his MVP year, I don't remember him ever being in mainstream conversations for "Best player in the game" the way Kobe and Duncan were. And since it happened throughout his entire career, it doesn't surprise me that it's still happening afterwards too. As for his ranking vs Nowitzki specifically, I think Dirk tends to be given more credit for willing a team with no other stars to a surprise championship than KG does for winning his title with one of the first modern superteams.

I guess that does make Garnett like Robinson, though, cuz the Admiral was always underrated too. At his peak I think he was considered just a bit better than Ewing and clearly below Olajuwon. Actual stats don't support that, of course.
   494. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 16, 2019 at 04:16 PM (#5891145)
Add Hollinger to the list of people who see the Bulls as a playoff contender (he pegs them as 8th in the East).

I was pretty comfortable in taking the over on them every number I've seen, but I still don't think I will say for sure they'll actually get to the playoffs this year.
   495. aberg Posted: October 16, 2019 at 05:05 PM (#5891152)
I think there were many things that contributed to KG being underrated. Here are a few that come to mind:

1. He played in Minnesota during his prime, which is and was off the NBA's beaten path.
2. He played on bad teams in his prime. He only got out of the first round once in MN. That had to do with bad front office decisions, bad teammates, and bad luck.
3. He rose to prominence in an era where 7-foot wings weren't a thing. He got a lot of crap for not posting up enough because it was still the era of Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Malone, Barkley, and Shaq. Face-up, jump-shooting bigs were not accepted like they are now.
4. His greatest strength was his defense, which is always underrated.
5. The things he did well on defense (versatility, switching, help and recover) are harder to notice than crazy block or steal numbers, which he never had.
6. He was pathologically unselfish, which is how he averaged 5 assists every year as a big man on bad teams.
7. He came along at the same time as a very similar player who was very slightly better and on far superior teams (Duncan).
   496. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 16, 2019 at 05:32 PM (#5891159)
a very similar player who was very slightly better and on far superior teams
The last of those three assertions is much more clearly true than the others, I think; especially considering how KG's best traits (defensive versatility, offensive versatility, switching, passing, spacing, screening) are inextricable from the team context he was working in, while Duncan's biggest advantages over KG (post play, rebounding, being a center) are much easier to evaluate regardless of context.
   497. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 16, 2019 at 06:43 PM (#5891172)
I would love to see prime KG in today’s league. Holy cow.
   498. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: October 17, 2019 at 10:29 AM (#5891250)
Beal signed a two year extension, per The Athletic
   499. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 17, 2019 at 11:51 AM (#5891280)
https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2019 is upon us once more
   500. jmurph Posted: October 17, 2019 at 01:12 PM (#5891319)
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