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Monday, November 05, 2012

OT: NFL/NHL thread

i estimate that absolutely noone gives a damn about the NHL, so by folding that thread into this one, we won’t distract from what this thread is really about: boner pills, blood doping (is it low t?), and…jesus christ did mike vick just throw another ####### interception?

starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 05, 2012 at 11:03 PM | 9242 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nfl, nhl

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   1801. DA Baracus Posted: January 16, 2013 at 01:32 PM (#4348302)
A innovative coach needs resources


No, a bland one does. An innovative coach gets blood from a stone.

the Bears have very little of those resources focused on the offense


They have the draft and free agency coming up.

If the Bears continue to have a good defense for the next 5 years and have an offense that goes from one of the worst to just below average and the Bears continue to not get "over the hump" will they allow the head coach/front office to continue in the direction they were going?


They will fire Trestman and Emery and start again. Realistically, who would you prefer the Bears to hire?


   1802. McCoy Posted: January 16, 2013 at 01:34 PM (#4348303)
Smith went to the Super Bowl in his third season and won the NFC North twice in his first three seasons. He then took the team to the NFC championship in his 7th season. Though I believe that after three seasons of mediocrity leading up to that he was on thin ice and if the Bears had failed to make the playoffs in 2010 he would have gotten fired.

What would have happened to Smith if instead of getting to the Super Bowl in year three he got them to 9-7 instead?
   1803. DA Baracus Posted: January 16, 2013 at 01:34 PM (#4348306)
In fact, there's rumblings they might even keep Marinelli around as DC.


This should be Trestman's #1 priority.
   1804. McCoy Posted: January 16, 2013 at 01:35 PM (#4348307)
The defense isn't getting any better, no matter who you hire. If you want to progress as a team, you need to bring in somebody to fix the offense, and primarily the line. And if you don't want to progress, and are happy where you are, then why fire Lovie?

I think the defense is getting old and their schemes are getting a bit dated. I think they definitely can improve on defense.

As to why fire Smith? Because I don't think he is a good head coach.
   1805. DA Baracus Posted: January 16, 2013 at 01:38 PM (#4348310)
I think they definitely can improve on defense.


Football Outsiders has them as the #1 defense. #1 total, #1 pass, #1 run. Advanced NFL Stats has them #1 as well.
   1806. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 01:39 PM (#4348311)
What would have happened to Smith if instead of getting to the Super Bowl in year three he got them to 9-7 instead?

I dunno, but I doubt he gets fired then.
   1807. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 16, 2013 at 01:40 PM (#4348315)
Man, gone are the days when college coaches stayed at the same college for decades.


Was that really an era, or was it just the few super-successful coaches who did that?

Wiki lists 71 college football coaches with 200 or more wins. Of those, 27 stayed (or have stayed) at their original school. Of those, the only easily recognizable names are Eddie Robinson, Joe Paterno, Tom Osborne, Jake Gaither, and Vince Dooley, and only three of them coached at big time Division I schools. Knute Rockne could be added even though he didn't coach long enough to get 200 wins, but the overwhelming majority of these coaches are either still coaching or retired only in the past 10 or 15 years.
   1808. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 16, 2013 at 01:43 PM (#4348318)
I think they definitely can improve on defense.

Football Outsiders has them as the #1 defense.

And by leaps and bounds. The difference between them and SF in #2, is about the same as the gap from #2 to #13. You aren't getting any better on defense. The best you can hope for is to not get worse.
   1809. DA Baracus Posted: January 16, 2013 at 01:48 PM (#4348322)
And by leaps and bounds. The difference between them and SF in #2, is about the same as the gap from #2 to #13. You aren't getting any better on defense. The best you can hope for is to not get worse.


Yup, by default they will be worse next year. Maybe only a little, but they'll almost certainly regress. Which makes improving the offense even more important.

Now, in fairness, not having Mike Tice as OC automatically improves the offense.
   1810. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4348368)
Wiki lists 71 college football coaches with 200 or more wins. Of those, 27 stayed (or have stayed) at their original school. Of those, the only easily recognizable names are Eddie Robinson, Joe Paterno, Tom Osborne, Jake Gaither, and Vince Dooley, and only three of them coached at big time Division I schools. Knute Rockne could be added even though he didn't coach long enough to get 200 wins, but the overwhelming majority of these coaches are either still coaching or retired only in the past 10 or 15 years.


I'd bet something that way more people know who Lavell Edwards (200+ wins, all at one school) is than Jake Gaither. I can't imagine that name having any meaning to someone south of 50 years old, unless they have some association with FAMU.
   1811. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 03:30 PM (#4348389)
There were plenty of coaches back in the day who went from school to school. The legendary Dana X Bible coached 8+ years at each of Texas A&M, Texas, and Nebraska, plus stints as HC of LSU and Mississippi College. Elmer Layden coached at both Duquesne and Notre Dame. Ara Parseghian had lengthy tenures at both Northwestern and Notre Dame.
   1812. DA Baracus Posted: January 16, 2013 at 04:01 PM (#4348407)
Alabama was Bear Bryant's fourth stop. Case closed.
   1813. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: January 16, 2013 at 04:12 PM (#4348420)
I view possible Oregon NCAA issues like I viewed Lance Armstrong being busted for enhancers. It was/is only a matter of time.
   1814. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: January 16, 2013 at 04:46 PM (#4348445)
Geroge Gund III former owner of SJ Sharks passes away

On a side note there will be a separate service for his eyebrows.
   1815. Moe Greene Posted: January 16, 2013 at 04:48 PM (#4348446)
   1816. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 04:58 PM (#4348454)
So... How do people see this weekend's games? Is the conventional wisdom that the Pats will have a tougher time with the Ravens than the 9.5 point spread indicates, because of the Pats' trouble in the secondary and the loss of Bibi Jones's friend to a broken arm?

I see the Ravens as a tough opponent, but I think they're kind of a binary team: either they will be very tough or very easy.

Too bad we have to suffer through another week of the Ray Lewis Admiration Society.

I don't really have a strong opinion on the NFC game. I'm interested to see how Kaepernick plays.
   1817. JJ1986 Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4348458)
Te'o is a #### human being? I am shocked that announcers can't corrrectly determine someone's character by watching him play football.
   1818. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:14 PM (#4348462)
Mmmmmmm, delicious Notre Dame schadenfreude. Om nom nom nom, oooh, so sweet and delclious. I think I'm going to take a bath in it.
   1819. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:18 PM (#4348464)
because of the Pats' trouble in the secondary and the loss of Bibi Jones's friend to a broken arm?

The former of these is somewhat mitigated (at least compared to the last meeting) because of the addition of Talib. Talib and Dennard in coverage with McCourty back at Safety isn't going to win any awards, but it's significantly better than the McCourty at CB situation from week 3.

If that's the conventional wisdom, I agree with it. I think the Patriots certainly deserve to be favored, but I see it as more of a 1 score game and wouldn't be schocked if the Raven won. Something like 31-24 Patriots seems about right to me.

Not a strong opinion on the NFC game, but if forced to put money on it, I'd probably go with SF in a close game.
   1820. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:23 PM (#4348467)
Now, as more details come out, I think I oversold myself in [1818]. If so, that's what I get for posting like an #######.
   1821. Moe Greene Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4348469)
ND says he was the victim of a hoax. That's awfully suspicious since he apparently knew one of the perpetrators, Tuiasosopo.
   1822. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:38 PM (#4348470)
That's awfully suspicious since he apparently knew one of the perpetrators, Tuiasosopo.


Apropos of nothing: Ronaiah Tuiasosopo, the guy who's apparently behind the hoax, is a cousin of former Mariners infielder Matt Tuiasosopo, who played for the Mets' AAA affiliate last year and signed a minor league deal with the Tigers for 2013.

Roniah is the son of Titus, who played football for USC, and Matt is the son of Manu, who played football in the NFL. Titus and Manu are cousins.
   1823. cmd600 Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:40 PM (#4348471)
That's awfully suspicious since he apparently knew one of the perpetrators, Tuiasosopo


Not sure I follow the logic. Aren't you more likely to be conned by someone who knows you at least a little than a complete stranger?
   1824. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:41 PM (#4348473)
ND says he was the victim of a hoax.


A catholic institution is spinning like mad to avoid negative PR? Me so confused.
   1825. DA Baracus Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:42 PM (#4348475)
This is the second most ridiculous Notre Dame football story to come out recently.
   1826. Eddo Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:43 PM (#4348476)
This is weird. If Te'o is not in on it, then who was the girl he met? Who was he talking to on the phone every night? Who texted his father?

If he is in on it, it's equally puzzling. Mostly that no one at all slipped all this time.
   1827. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:43 PM (#4348477)
Not sure I follow the logic. Aren't you more likely to be conned by someone who knows you at least a little than a complete stranger?

He claims he met her, in the stories from before this came out. What exactly is he claming was the hoax? And why would the university blindly try to help deflect for him?
   1828. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:46 PM (#4348478)
This is weird. If Te'o is not in on it, then who was the girl he met? Who was he talking to on the phone every night? Who texted his father?


He's in on it. No idea why the family played this, but they're all in on it.
   1829. Every Inge Counts Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:52 PM (#4348481)
He's in on it. No idea why the family played this, but they're all in on it.


The same Te'o family that runs his Facebook fan page and blacklisted a Hawaii newspaper for showing a picture of Te'o getting bowled over in the BCS title game...I have no idea what role they played in this hype machine...
http://www.faniq.com/blog/Manti-Teo-and-his-father-blacklist-Honolulu-newspaper-after-negative-coverage-Blog-60568
   1830. JJ1986 Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:58 PM (#4348484)
The different dates and times of death must have come from Te'o, since he as the media's only access to the fake girlfriend.
   1831. Eddo Posted: January 16, 2013 at 05:58 PM (#4348485)
He claims he met her, in the stories from before this came out. What exactly is he claming was the hoax?

I suppose (and note, I'm not claiming this is what I believe) that Tuiasosopo had a girl in on it as well, who actually did meet Te'o, and act the part.

That seems really, really unlikely though. It means Tuiasosopo was planning this for years, and then got lucky that Te'o turned into such a star.

EDIT: Sounds like the Te'o family is claiming essentially that (source Notre Dame, via Deadspin):
On Dec. 26, Notre Dame coaches were informed by Manti Te'o and his parents that Manti had been the victim of what appears to be a hoax in which someone using the fictitious name Lennay Kekua apparently ingratiated herself with Manti and then conspired with others to lead him to believe she had tragically died of leukemia.
   1832. JJ1986 Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:00 PM (#4348486)
I suppose (and note, I'm not claiming this is what I believe) that Tuiasosopo had a girl in on it as well, who actually did meet Te'o, and act the part.


A different girl from the one in the pictures?
   1833. Eddo Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:01 PM (#4348487)
A different girl from the one in the pictures?

Who knows? Perhaps the "Reba" girl was the one in on it, and now decided to come clean for whatever reason (money, conscience, etc.).

Though that seems farfetched.
   1834. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:03 PM (#4348488)
If that's the conventional wisdom, I agree with it. I think the Patriots certainly deserve to be favored, but I see it as more of a 1 score game and wouldn't be schocked if the Raven won. Something like 31-24 Patriots seems about right to me.
i don't think anyone's ever gone broke in betting on bill belicheck to run up the score.

   1835. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:08 PM (#4348491)
Ha, from October:

Manti Te'o
?@MTeo_5
Don't let your dreams stay dreams! Make them a reality!
   1836. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:23 PM (#4348495)
Only ways this makes sense is if:

a) Teo was in on it for publicity
b) Teo is naive enough to think a girl he met on Twitter (that is, never) was his ’gf', or
c) Teo was in on it for cover (assumes he's gay)

Edit: and (b) still stretches believability. Maybe a combo of b and c, covering for the fact that he'd never had a gf?
   1837. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:34 PM (#4348500)
My money is on C.
   1838. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:38 PM (#4348502)
How could Te'o be the victim of a hoax? Even IF someone hacked his twitter account, this story went public at least a number of months ago. So surely at some point Te'o would have heard the story or been asked about it and been like, um, whatthehellareyoutalkingabout?

Instead, we got this. From a November 13, 2012 ESPN story:

"Somebody told me one time the hardest thing about goodbyes is that when you wake up in the morning you have to say it again, when you realize that they're not there. So every morning when I wake up and my girlfriend's not on the phone, it reminds me that she's gone, and that's the hardest part for me. I go through it every day."


Did ESPN fabricate the quote?

Or this. October 25, 2012. Did SI fabricate this quote?

"Obviously, going through what I've gone through, with my girlfriend passing away from cancer, that whole thing hit home for me,'' Te'o said in a private moment the other day, "My whole thing was just to reach out and let them know I'm here. I wrote her parents.

...On the other end of that email were Brian and Louise Smith. Brian, a Notre Dame alum and fan, and Louise, a St. Mary's alum. They had watched the Notre Dame-Michigan game with Bridget just a few weeks earlier in the University of Michigan Intensive Care Unit. On Friday, Oct. 5, they were planning to disconnect Bridget's ventilator at 3 p.m.

It would be her last day.

That morning, they casually opened their email and saw one that had come from: MANTI TE'O. He would pour out his feelings about his own losses and connect with the Smiths' world.

"We opened that letter that morning, and it was just a bright spot on the saddest day of our lives,'' Louise Smith said. "We read it to her; we shared with her what it said. They say hearing is the last thing to go. I don't know. I believe she internalized it.


This is rich, from the SI article:

Lance Armstrong was built up as the greatest human being until we found out how he bullied and cheated.

Character is revealed behind closed doors. Te'o didn't save a life, but in his grief, he gave of himself to others.


More:

"I still constantly pray for Bridget and her family,'' Te'o said. "You know, Bridget's in a better place now. She's with my girlfriend. There's no better place to be.''


And then, there was - oh - the videotaped interview with Te'o himself talking about the loss of his girlfriend, on Charlie Rose's show.

Etc etc etc etc. He was not the victim of the hoax. He helped perpetuate it.

But I like this from Notre Dame:

On Dec. 26, Notre Dame coaches were informed by Manti Te'o and his parents that Manti had been the victim of what appears to be a hoax in which someone using the fictitious name Lennay Kekua apparently ingratiated herself with Manti and then conspired with others to lead him to believe she had tragically died of leukemia.


Did this person also conspire with others to lead Te'o to believe that he had a girlfriend and that he talked to her on the phone every night?
   1839. DA Baracus Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:38 PM (#4348503)
I have a hard time believing he wasn't in on it.

SOUTH BEND -- It never felt like a chance meeting, although it probably appeared that way from the outside looking in.

Their stares got pleasantly tangled, then Manti Te'o extended his hand to the stranger with a warm smile and soulful eyes.
   1840. JJ1986 Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:44 PM (#4348506)
Ray, Te'o isn't claiming that he'd never heard about the story.
   1841. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:45 PM (#4348507)
I suppose (and note, I'm not claiming this is what I believe) that Tuiasosopo had a girl in on it as well, who actually did meet Te'o, and act the part.


Then this "Reba" would have to be lying -- had to have actively scammed him, pretended she was his girlfriend and that she was dying -- but how does that even work when there was supposedly a hospital involved and a funeral, etc.? He never interacted at all with her friends or family? And she was his "girlfriend"?
   1842. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:48 PM (#4348508)
Jason McIntyre ?@TheBigLead
Confirmed from 2 sources: ESPN has known about the Manti Te'o story for 10 days. Had been reporting it, but could not confirm.


This is going to be the bigger story in this, IMO.
   1843. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:50 PM (#4348509)
Only ways this makes sense is if:

a) Teo was in on it for publicity
b) Teo is naive enough to think a girl he met on Twitter (that is, never) was his ’gf', or
c) Teo was in on it for cover (assumes he's gay)


And/or:

d) It started as a joke that got completely out of hand and then they just continued.
e) It was part of a Heismann campaign (if this makes sense; I don't even know who won).
f) They saw how easy it is to manipulate the media with this stuff and they took advantage.
g) They are all simply effed up, which they would have to be to use the real dead girl's parents' as pawns in the hoax.
   1844. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:50 PM (#4348510)
Chris Mannix ?@ChrisMannixSI
South Bend Tribune quotes Brian Te'o in October saying Te'o's fake GF flew to Hawaii to hang out with Te'o.
   1845. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:52 PM (#4348511)
Ray, Te'o isn't claiming that he'd never heard about the story.


Right, but my point is that he never said "Whoa, let's put on the brakes here, this story is not true." Instead, he participates.
   1846. Conor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:55 PM (#4348513)
He's claiming that somehow he was duped by this twitter account and really believed everything "she" said.

Not sure it passes the smell test. Ok I am sure; it doesn't.
   1847. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:56 PM (#4348514)
Gregg Doyel ?@GreggDoyelCBS
Manti's father: "They started out as just friends. She would travel to Hawaii (when) Manti was home, so he would meet with her there."


   1848. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:57 PM (#4348515)
Well, I hope Te'o wasn't in on it. Apparently such a hoax is not completely unheard of.
   1849. Kurt Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:57 PM (#4348516)
g) They are all simply effed up, which they would have to be to use the real dead girl's parents' as pawns in the hoax.

There is no real dead girl, is there? I thought the girl whose pictures were used is still alive.
   1850. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 16, 2013 at 06:58 PM (#4348518)
e) It was part of a Heismann campaign (if this makes sense; I don't even know who won).

Her "death" happened between the third and fourth games of the season. I don't think there was any real expectation he could become a Heisman candidate at that point.
   1851. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:04 PM (#4348522)
There is no real dead girl, is there? I thought the girl whose pictures were used is still alive.


No, apparently there is a real girl who did die, Bridget, as I quoted above, who Te'o sent a letter of sympathy too - though oddly it seems to have disappeared from the deadspin story:

"Obviously, going through what I've gone through, with my girlfriend passing away from cancer, that whole thing hit home for me,'' Te'o said in a private moment the other day, "My whole thing was just to reach out and let them [the Smiths] know I'm here. I wrote her [Bridget's] parents.

...On the other end of that email were Brian and Louise Smith. Brian, a Notre Dame alum and fan, and Louise, a St. Mary's alum. They had watched the Notre Dame-Michigan game with Bridget just a few weeks earlier in the University of Michigan Intensive Care Unit. On Friday, Oct. 5, they were planning to disconnect Bridget's ventilator at 3 p.m.

It would be her last day.

That morning, they casually opened their email and saw one that had come from: MANTI TE'O. He would pour out his feelings about his own losses and connect with the Smiths' world.

"We opened that letter that morning, and it was just a bright spot on the saddest day of our lives,'' Louise Smith said. "We read it to her; we shared with her what it said. They say hearing is the last thing to go. I don't know. I believe she internalized it.

"I still constantly pray for Bridget and her family,'' Te'o said. "You know, Bridget's in a better place now. She's with my girlfriend. There's no better place to be.''

   1852. Conor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:06 PM (#4348523)
Right, but did Bridget have anything to do with the alleged gf? I guess i read the deadspin story after they took it out.
   1853. Gamingboy Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:07 PM (#4348524)
This is so, so weird. I mean, there's weird, then there's WEIRD, and then there's this. If you were to pitch this to a Hollywood studio, they'd laugh at you.
   1854. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:08 PM (#4348525)
Breaking... Te'o's statement. See the end of the deadspin article:

This is incredibly embarrassing to talk about, but over an extended period of time, I developed an emotional relationship with a woman I met online. We maintained what I thought to be an authentic relationship by communicating frequently online and on the phone, and I grew to care deeply about her. To realize that I was the victim of what was apparently someone's sick joke and constant lies was, and is, painful and humiliating. It further pains me that the grief I felt and the sympathies expressed to me at the time of my grandmother's death in September were in any way deepened by what I believed to be another significant loss in my life. I am enormously grateful for the support of my family, friends and Notre Dame fans throughout this year. To think that I shared with them my happiness about my relationship and details that I thought to be true about her just makes me sick. I hope that people can understand how trying and confusing this whole experience has been. In retrospect, I obviously should have been much more cautious. If anything good comes of this, I hope it is that others will be far more guarded when they engage with people online than I was. Fortunately, I have many wonderful things in my life, and I'm looking forward to putting this painful experience behind me as I focus on preparing for the NFL Draft.


So basically for Te'o to be telling the truth, this Reba has to be lying.

And Te'o has to have an odd understanding of the term "girlfriend," I guess. Among a thousand other things.
   1855. JJ1986 Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:09 PM (#4348526)
The South Bend article claims that he met her in California. Now he's saying he met her online?
   1856. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:11 PM (#4348527)
e) It was part of a Heismann campaign (if this makes sense; I don't even know who won).

Her "death" happened between the third and fourth games of the season. I don't think there was any real expectation he could become a Heisman candidate at that point.


Ok.
   1857. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:17 PM (#4348530)
"To realize that I was the victim of what was apparently someone's sick joke and constant lies was, and is, painful and humiliating."


Dude. You said you had a girlfriend. Who was passing away from cancer. And you never visited her?
   1858. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:18 PM (#4348532)
This is the guy who believes in magic underwear, no? I figure he's a pretty gullible sort, period.
   1859. cmd600 Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:22 PM (#4348535)
Dude. You said you had a girlfriend. Who was passing away from cancer. And you never visited her?


Once summer practice hits, college football players aren't going too far from campus. And she was supposedly improving over the summer.

I'm not saying this means anything makes any more sense.
   1860. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:25 PM (#4348538)
I'm not going to go back through the details of the Deadspin story, but I'd be interested in reading a list of all the things we'd have to believe if Te'o is telling the truth (if anyone has such a list or has compiled it). I presume Deadspin will get on it.

I mean, he's not saying his Twitter account was hacked, as he couldn't since he was interviewed numerous times on this topic. I imagine he's said enough things in the past few months on the record -- between Twitter and the various print/tv interviews -- to sink his battleship several times over.

And you can believe that if this Reba is telling the truth, she is already giving Deadspin enough information to prove it -- i.e., phone records, emails, etc. Although I suppose if Te'o's story is that he never actually met the girl in person, then Reba can be telling the truth which means that there is some OTHER girl involved, who used Reba's picture and then pretended to be her over the phone. I think. There are a lot of layers to this now, and especially now that Te'o has gone on the record with a formal defense.

But I imagine a simple review of Teo's phone records would confirm, if he is telling the truth, that he made several calls to Imposter X over the months and the authorities will quickly be able to tell who Imposter X is from the phone records.

One wonders why, if Te'o is telling the truth, he and the school didn't go immediately to the police on December 26th. The authorities should have this wrapped up already, or at least be ready with a formal statement that they have been investigating.

We'll have confirmation soon enough. My guess is that Te'o will be issuing an apology for producing a fake cover story and an admission of guilt within 48 hours.
   1861. smileyy Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:36 PM (#4348545)
RDP, my guess is that someone will get paid enough to allow themselves to be thrown under a bus.
   1862. Moe Greene Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:41 PM (#4348551)
Old Hoss has been having a grand old time with this on Twitter.

"On the bright side, M. Te'o, it will be difficult for Dead Spin to acquire the imaginary photos of your member from her pretend cell phone."
   1863. cmd600 Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:44 PM (#4348552)
I mean, he's not saying his Twitter account was hacked,


Not sure how that affects anything.

he and the school didn't go immediately to the police on December 26th


And report what crime, exactly?
   1864. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:52 PM (#4348561)
I don't understand the confusion. The only things that are not immediately clear if you've read the Deadspin story:
-Te'o's motives for engaging in the hoax
-Whether - or to what degree - his father/family was in on it.

His 'I'm super embarrassed' cover story is also quite obviously his only out. To say he got taken in by someone he met online will also serve to explain why he won't want to talk about it, take interviews, or press the matter further - 'hopefully others will learn from my mistakes, and be more cautious in future' straight to the combine and then the draft.

Re the ESPN angle - also seems clear to me that the tipping point in Deadspin running the story was their ability to track the photos down to 'Reba' and thereby confirm that 'Lennay Kekua' was in fact fully fictional.
   1865. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 16, 2013 at 07:59 PM (#4348569)
One wonders why, if Te'o is telling the truth, he and the school didn't go immediately to the police on December 26th. The authorities should have this wrapped up already, or at least be ready with a formal statement that they have been investigating.

It seems they did, according to the university's press release:

On Dec. 26, Notre Dame coaches were informed by Manti Te’o and his parents that Manti had been the victim of what appears to be a hoax in which someone using the fictitious name Lennay Kekua apparently ingratiated herself with Manti and then conspired with others to lead him to believe she had tragically died of leukemia. The University immediately initiated an investigation to assist Manti and his family in discovering the motive for and nature of this hoax. While the proper authorities will continue to investigate this troubling matter, this appears to be, at a minimum, a sad and very cruel deception to entertain its perpetrators.


But I imagine a simple review of Teo's phone records would confirm, if he is telling the truth, that he made several calls to Imposter X over the months and the authorities will quickly be able to tell who Imposter X is from the phone records.

Yeah, I imagine phone records will provide a definitive answer to this.
   1866. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:03 PM (#4348571)
IMO, the best explanation for this, from Te'o's side, is that he truly was tricked, hoaxed, whatever. Once the gf "died", he just kept the story going and starting making up more and more details about her. He's still a liar there, but I understand something like that spinning out of his control much more easily than him being involved in setting up the hoax. Of course, I still believe he knew it was a hoax from the start, but I'm trying to see if there's any other possibilities here.

The SBT story claims they met in 2009. So, I have a really hard time he thought he was friends/gf/whatever with this person for 3 years and had no idea it was a hoax.
   1867. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:06 PM (#4348574)
His 'I'm super embarrassed' cover story is also quite obviously his only out. To say he got taken in by someone he met online will also serve to explain why he won't want to talk about it, take interviews, or press the matter further - 'hopefully others will learn from my mistakes, and be more cautious in future' straight to the combine and then the draft.


T'eo and his family were in on this charade. (Why is anyone's guess.)

T'eo is covering his ass as best he can, which is not well at all.

Notre Dame is running with the T'eo spin because they're Notre Dame, and they have an image to protect at all cost. For the university, T'eo was a victim of a Twitter hoax exactly as much as that girl that killed herself was totally *not* raped.
   1868. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:08 PM (#4348575)
as much as that girl that killed herself was totally *not* raped.

She never even alleged she was raped, so that's an odd stance.
   1869. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:11 PM (#4348578)
Swarbrick should really not be talking right now. This is going to bite him in the ass, big time.

He's saying that Te'o got a call on 12/26 from his "gf" telling him she wasn't dead. Swarbrick is saying he's know of this since then.
   1870. cmd600 Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:12 PM (#4348579)
She never even alleged she was raped, so that's an odd stance.


Forget it. He's rolling.
   1871. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:13 PM (#4348580)
She never even alleged she was raped, so that's an odd stance.


Uh huh.
   1872. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:14 PM (#4348581)
ND/Te'o were going to release the story next week? Come on.
   1873. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:15 PM (#4348582)
Uh huh.

I realize the only damning fact you need is the university involved but it might behoove you to read a news article before throwing out wild conclusions.
   1874. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:15 PM (#4348583)
He's talking about that Catfish documentary/show now.

BTW, that was the first thing he mentioned when asked what proof they had Te'o wasn't involved.
   1875. Moe Greene Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:16 PM (#4348584)
I hope Te'o and Tuiasosopo were having a relationship and tried to cover it up with this. That would make this story much more interesting.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
   1876. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:18 PM (#4348587)
Now he's saying he's going to let Te'o explain the story Te'o and the gf met. Swarbrick said it was "exclusively" an online relationship.
   1877. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:19 PM (#4348589)
As they're pressing for details, Swarbrick is getting more vague. "When did Te'o say they met?" "I'm not sure."
   1878. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:20 PM (#4348590)
You don't have your notes in front of you!?!?! Then why the #### are you having a press conference?
   1879. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:21 PM (#4348591)
I realize the only damning fact you need is the university involved but it might behoove you to read a news article before throwing out wild conclusions.


I do my best to read an article now and then.

At the time of her death, 10 days after reporting the attack to campus police, who have jurisdiction for even the most serious crimes on school property, investigators still had not interviewed the accused.


You'd have thought Paterno-Sandusky would have taught you people not to hold these golden calves so very high...
   1880. Moe Greene Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:21 PM (#4348592)
If they met in 2009 and this hoax went on for more than 3 years and Te'o wasn't in on it... holy cow, someone was really hellbent on screwing with Te'o.

That story strains credibility.
   1881. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:25 PM (#4348594)
I can't take any more of this bullshit.
   1882. DA Baracus Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:35 PM (#4348599)
Is Manti Te'o the dumbest man alive, is this the stupidest cover for being gay ever or is this just a really sick joke?

I'm not sure which option is best. Or least worst.
   1883. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:36 PM (#4348601)
I heard one of the authors (Dickey) on Finebaum this afternoon, he was kind of in disbelief at how there were so many holes and easy ways to blow up this story all along if anybody had even bothered to look in the first place. They didn't start snooping around until they were sent so many bits of information from a number of people.
   1884. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:39 PM (#4348604)
You'd have thought Paterno-Sandusky would have taught you people not to hold these golden calves so very high...
maybe it would have, but that wasn't the lesson that anyone wants to learn. the lesson that people wanted to learn was that joe paterno was an evil child rapisdt and that such a terrible thing could only happen because he was king of his own little sycophantic fiefdom at penn state.

   1885. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:40 PM (#4348605)
I heard one of the authors (Dickey) on Finebaum this afternoon, he was kind of in disbelief at how there were so many holes and easy ways to blow up this story all along if anybody had even bothered to look in the first place.


Who was going to investigate it? The school? HA! The networks that rely on golden helmed football to drive their ratings? DOUBLE HA!
   1886. DA Baracus Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:42 PM (#4348606)
maybe it would have, but that wasn't the lesson that anyone wants to learn.


Or did learn.
   1887. zenbitz Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:45 PM (#4348609)
I think if the Pats played the Ravens 1,000 times you would get lots of Patriot blow out wins and a not insignificant number of close games at least 1/2 of which are Raven upsets. FO puts it at 70-30 pats which seems as good a guess as any.

I do have strong opinions about the NFC. I think the niners will win, but i wouldnt touch the -5 point home dog line with a 10 foot pole.

I think that the NFCC is likely to be a shootout. I actually think of the Falcons as the Packers lite.
Atl has better OL, worse pass rush, worse Qb than the packers.
What atl does have is health, and thats huge.

Unless i have totally mis judged the atl defense (possible) the niners will put up points. I think they can stop the run (including option) OR the pass, but not both. Atl defense wins big if they can stuff the run and confuse kaepernick with solid zone defense. Seattle, stl, mia did a good job of stopping the post alex smith niners.

What i dont see is a lot of qb runs for sf. I think they will try to do to atl what seattle did in the 4th Q.

Possibly weird but i think the niner defense is the key to this game.
Will you get the one that stuffed ne for 3 quarters or the one since.

If atl can generate successes on the ground when sf is in nickel it will be a very close game.
   1888. The District Attorney Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:46 PM (#4348610)
If they met in 2009 and this hoax went on for more than 3 years and Te'o wasn't in on it... holy cow, someone was really hellbent on screwing with Te'o.
Oh, I could totally believe that someone would go to the trouble of performing an extremely drawn-out fake death over the Internet. Münchausen by Internet is very much a thing.

I don't think that's what happened here, though.
   1889. Machine Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:47 PM (#4348611)
   1890. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:47 PM (#4348612)
maybe it would have, but that wasn't the lesson that anyone wants to learn. the lesson that people wanted to learn was that joe paterno was an evil child rapisdt and that such a terrible thing could only happen because he was king of his own little sycophantic fiefdom at penn state.


Well, then that's their problem, isn't it?

Paterno wasn't a child rapist. He just abided and abetted one for 25 years. He was king of his own little sycophantic fiefdom at Penn State, the way Brian Kelly is at Notre Dame, the way Nick Saban is at Alabama, etc, et al. The problem is that all major athletic departments are sick little feudal wastelands and cults of power/"leadership" from the Great Head Coach. And lest it be said I am jumping on Notre Dame here for some personal distaste for that little self-righteous cult*, I guarantee you that there's been a sexual assault and rape by a member of the football team at 75% of all D-1 programs this season. And they all get covered up, because football comes first at all costs.

*which is not to say that I don't harbor a special vendetta against the cult in South Bend, because, seriously, I do enjoy their comeuppance more than I would most. About the only thing that would equal it would be something at Duke basketball.
   1891. haggard Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:49 PM (#4348614)
Do we know whether Te'o actually had a grandmother?
   1892. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:52 PM (#4348617)
If atl can generate successes on the ground when sf is in nickel it will be a very close game.


What Seattle had that SF lacks are corners who can shut down Roddy White and Julio Jones. If they double those guys, Gonzalez is open in the middle. I expect Atlanta to pass a lot more effectively against SF.
   1893. DA Baracus Posted: January 16, 2013 at 08:52 PM (#4348618)
Do we know whether Te'o actually had a grandmother?


Gold star for haggard.
   1894. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:05 PM (#4348626)
My totally wild ass guess is that it started as a prank, and then Teo kept it up because he's in the closet, but when he started getting more press due to his good season he made the poor choice to end it by killing the fictional beard.

eta: the Deadspin article implied that they'd actually first "met" in 2011, not 2009.
   1895. Machine Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:19 PM (#4348633)
ESPN has updated the story

Reagan Mauia, an Arizona Cardinals fullback, said he believes Kekua existed because he met her in person when he and other Polynesian teammates and Pittsburgh Steelers star Troy Polamalu went to do charity work in American Samoa in June 2011. "This was before her and Manti," Mauia said Wednesday evening. "I don't think Manti was even in the picture, but she and I became good friends. We would talk off and on, just checking up on each other kind of thing. I am close to her family. When she was going through the loss of her father, I was -- I offered a comforting shoulder and just someone to bounce her emotions off. That was just from meeting her in Samoa." Mauia said Tuiasosopo -- whom Mauia believes is Kekua's cousin -- introduced the two. After the initial meeting, Mauia said he met her at an "after-party" for all of the athletes involved in the camp. "She was tall," he said. "Volleyball-type of physique. She was athletic, tall, beautiful. Long hair. Polynesian. She looked like a model ... " He said it is his understanding that Kekua's mother is operating her Twitter account. He said he'd never met her mother. When told by a reporter that she apparently might not have existed, Mauia said "No, she is real."
   1896. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:26 PM (#4348636)
Weirder and weirder.
   1897. greenback calls it soccer Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:27 PM (#4348637)
Half the Internet now believes Manti Te'o is gay. He might as well go on Oprah's show and confirm it.
   1898. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:30 PM (#4348640)
Maybe it's the old school in me talking, but sports don't really work that well when it's so easy to know so much about these people.
   1899. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:42 PM (#4348645)
You don't want to know that Babe Ruth was really just the invention of a candy company?
   1900. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: January 16, 2013 at 09:48 PM (#4348649)
Maybe it's the old school in me talking, but sports don't really work that well when it's so easy to know so much about these people.
i am pretty sure that every single person who voted for johnny manzell to win the heisman is in the same boat.
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