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Tuesday, November 06, 2012

OT: NFL/NHL thread

i estimate that absolutely noone gives a damn about the NHL, so by folding that thread into this one, we won’t distract from what this thread is really about: boner pills, blood doping (is it low t?), and…jesus christ did mike vick just throw another ####### interception?

steagles Posted: November 06, 2012 at 12:03 AM | 8036 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nfl, nhl

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   1901. steagles Posted: January 16, 2013 at 10:57 PM (#4348656)
getting back to chip kelly and nick foles and the eagles...since it's apparently a thing to wonder whether they can coexist:

1, i think it's mistaken to think that the only type of QB who could possibly excel in chip kelly's system is a running/dual-threat QB. i haven't heard kelly himself say this, and honestly, a lot of the people who i do hear saying it are lemmings who are known mostly for talking out of their ass. the new england patriots used a lot of kelly's concepts this past season, and while it's not entirely reasonable to compare nick foles to tom brady, i think new england's success does show that these concepts can work in the NFL without a running QB. so, taking 1 as a given,

2, how good does the QB have to be to succeed? nick foles is not likely to give you 100% of what tom brady gives new england, so if he gives you 90%, can that work? what about 80? or 60? now, that is something that there's really no way of knowing at this point. which brings us to

3, if foles washes out, who could they bring in? at the NFL level, there's joe webb and tom tebow, but those would definitely be system-type guys and if you bring them in, you really are committing to something like a 70/30 run/pass split. there's also denis dixon, who played for chip kelly a few years ago at oregon, but he's kind of got the same thing. looking at this draft, he could go after geno smith in the first round, but if you do that, you're acknowledging from the start that foles isn't your guy, which means you'd likely have to trade him (if not now, then down the road) for 50p on the dollar. if you look deeper into this draft, there's denard robinson, but then you get into the same issue as you have with webb and tebow and dixon where you're committing to someone who quite obviously is not an NFL-caliber passer. and then

4, ej manuel. he's not good, but if you're drafting him in the 4th round, you're not expecting him to be a savior. and if you get him early on day 3, you're not condemning nick foles to the scrap heap, you're just filling out your depth chart. and

5, jake locker. tennessee just drafted him in the top 10, so it's possible that they wouldn't want to give up on him this quickly. but on the other hand, he's ####### awful, so it's possible that they would. the upside for him with kelly and the eagles would be to maybe take advantage of his (overrated) athleticism and hope that kelly's system improves his (terrible) passing. also

6, terrelle pryor. again, he's not good. and again you'd be investing in chip kelly's magic pixie dust, but i can't imagine that he'd cost a ton to bring in, and he does seem to have some physical ability.



so, out of dixon, webb, pryor, locker, manuel, tebow, foles, and smith, my ideal would be the reverse of that order. but taking into account that foles is already an eagle and the eagles would have to spend a top 10 pick to get smith, i think that just about becomes a toss-up.


i'm pretty sure that i was the first person to jump on the nick foles bandwagon in philly considering i was on it before he was even drafted, but it's hard to deny that a dual-threat QB isn't just a huge competitive advantage, so if smith is the guy, i'd be okay with that.



   1902. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:00 PM (#4348660)
while i am perfectly fine with the media and the school of notre dame being completely embarrassed i am obviously puzzled as to what drove the young man to contrive such an implausible pile of bs

like he was daring people to ask obvious questions to make the whole thing end

   1903. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:11 PM (#4348667)
ok, so the espn guy said he couldn't find an obit or a news story on the car accident and when he asked a few questions the player told him to back off so he did

so he at least tried.
   1904. steagles Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:12 PM (#4348668)

like he was daring people to ask obvious questions to make the whole thing end
i don't think anyone asked any questions. i think this only came out because he came forward about it to notre damn administrators after he was confronted by the hoaxer (presumably because she wanted money to keep quiet about the whole thing).
   1905. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:13 PM (#4348669)
Wow STEAGLES, Terrelle Pryor? Why not look up Nate Davis while you're at it?

EDIT: he came forward about it to notre damn administrators after he was confronted by the hoaxer (presumably because she wanted money to keep quiet about the whole thing).

Where on Earth is any of that coming from? In particular, who is 'she'?
   1906. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:18 PM (#4348674)
And report what crime, exactly?


"Someone is stalking me."
   1907. Howie Menckel Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:19 PM (#4348675)

"ok, so the espn guy said he couldn't find an obit or a news story on the car accident and when he asked a few questions the player told him to back off so he did"

this is where the 'a-hole editor' play comes in. alas, some member of the player's 'team' needs to close that loop; player need not be involved.
   1908. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:22 PM (#4348678)
howie

no idea what you are saying.
   1909. steagles Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:25 PM (#4348680)
Where on Earth is any of that coming from? In particular, who is 'she'?
'she' is the woman who came forward to deadspin. the "presumably because she wanted money to keep quiet about the whole thing" was me putting forth a colorful theory.

   1910. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:26 PM (#4348682)
ok, so the espn guy said he couldn't find an obit or a news story on the car accident and when he asked a few questions the player told him to back off so he did

so he at least tried.


Hmm. Not sure how this is 'trying,' exactly. Seems like he was trying but then stopped.
   1911. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:28 PM (#4348684)
ray

giving him credit for at least checking. i am setting a low bar here.

//cue howie telling me i am stereotpyical gop anti-media jerk
   1912. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:36 PM (#4348689)
ray

giving him credit for at least checking. i am setting a low bar here.


Ok, fair enough.

My god, how freaking bad the media are at their jobs. They just report things and regurgitate them uncritically, without checking anything, just piggybacking off of other stories because the stories are so Feel Good -- for years. Not that this comes with even the smallest amount of surprise, but it does highlight the problem.
   1913. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:37 PM (#4348692)
ok, howie, ray went there first. so don't be carping on me this time
   1914. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:37 PM (#4348693)
:-) I really don't see anywhere else to go.
   1915. Howie Menckel Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:42 PM (#4348697)
Peace, Harvey.

And if I wasn't clear, then I must clarify.

If it's a sensitive topic, it can be difficult to 'demand' proof in the moment. But it works to come back and note reluctantly that bosses above you insist on such annoying details. oh well, so....

"trying" is not enough, in any field.

   1916. steagles Posted: January 16, 2013 at 11:50 PM (#4348704)
Wow STEAGLES, Terrelle Pryor? Why not look up Nate Davis while you're at it?
yeah, sure, why not. it really costs you absolutely nothing to bring a guy in over the offseason. 9 times out of 10, maybe even 99 times out of 100, you'll waste your time, but there's talent that's out there.

now, terrelle pryor may not be that talent, but if it costs you nothing but time and effort to find out, i think it's worth at least that.
   1917. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:14 AM (#4348719)
Swarbrick said that he wanted to give Te'o the opportunity to tell the story in his own words.

"And he will," Swarbrick said. "In many ways, Manti was the perfect mark, because he is a guy who is so willing to believe in others and so ready to help, that as this hoax played out in a way that called upon those tendencies of Manti, it roped him more and more into the trap... He was not a person who would have a second thought about offering his assistance and help."


These comments are simply out of place and thus make no sense. Te'o claimed that she was his girlfriend, not that the relationship was one where he was "helping" her in the way that Swarbrick suggests.

An hour or so after the story posted, Notre Dame released a statement saying the Heisman candidate had been the victim of a “hoax” last fall in which someone used the fictitious name Lennay Kekua to build an online relationship with Te’o, before conspiring with others to convince him she had died of leukemia in September.


Except that it seems this wasn't solely an "online" relationship:

The pair reportedly met in person in November 2009 after Stanford — where Kekua was enrolled — beat the Irish, 45-38.

   1918. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:22 AM (#4348728)
TMZ:

Manti Te'o told Notre Dame officials he NEVER met his supposed girlfriend in person ...


Some Swarbrick highlights:

-- Manti is expected to address the media sometime tomorrow (Thursday).
-- Swarbrick says Manti met with a media team, who had planned to release the story to the media next week ... but they were scooped by Deadspin.
-- Manti told ND officials he had gone to Hawaii to meet Lennay in person on several occasions, but she never showed up.


That third one is a howler. Yet, she was still his girlfriend!
   1919. zenbitz Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:37 AM (#4348744)
What Seattle had that SF lacks are corners who can shut down Roddy White and Julio Jones. If they double those guys, Gonzalez is open in the middle. I expect Atlanta to pass a lot more effectively against SF.


Oh, good point my Southern Foil.

The Niners secondary is merely solid, not outstanding. They will use both safeties over the top. So they will end up doubling White and Jones if they both go deep. They will use Bowman and Willis to cover Gonzales, and it will work OK. He will not get shut out but won't dominate either. Aaron Hernandez did have 10 for 92 but Brady threw 65 passes.

The niners weakness (such as it is) is shifty slot receivers not named Wes Welker (this was very surprising to Niner fans... possibly the Niner defense decided they'd rather have Hernandez beat them than WW...). In previous years they had trouble with passes to backs in the flat, but they shut that down this year (possibly Aldon Smith improving his coverage).

BUT the Niners pass defense depends on getting steady pressure from a 4 man rush - and really runs through Justin Smith. If that doesn't happen, Ryan is going to be able to hit someone down field.

So, I think if the niners execute on defense, they match up pretty well. Contrast this with Atlanta's problem. Their defense is solid, but not really outstanding, except maybe Asante Samuel. The front 4 is solid, but the LBs are unremarkable. The problems the Niner offense gives you is 3 fold:
1) You have to stop Gore and the Power run.
2) You have to stop Kaepernick on the read option
3) You have to double Vernon Davis

All that leaves you susceptible to Crabtree in the mid range and Harbaugh trickery (end arounds and the 2nd tight end). I think Atlanta showed they could stop the Read/Option. Can they stop that and the "vanilla" running plays? Remember, outside of last week, SF doesn't even RUN the option that much - but after a 180 yard day, they are going try to keep it in Atlanta's head.

Also, if you play more zone to watch the QB, or use a LB as a spy, you are going to have big trouble with the TEs and underneath routes. Worse -

Atlanta edges are that they are at home in the dome (and Kaepernick had trouble with noise in more than one game), and they get fewer penalties. Also, they have a functioning place kicker.

I think both offenses are going to have a good day, yardage wise. But if the Falcons can't run, they are going to kick field goals. As I said previously - if the Falcons' defense can cover the TEs in zone and confuse Kapernick into pulling the ball down too soon - they have a good chance
   1920. zenbitz Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:39 AM (#4348746)
I really thought Chip Kelly was going to end up in the NFCW facing off against Harbaugh and Carroll for all eternity.
   1921. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:43 AM (#4348752)
-- According to Swarbrick, Manti realized Lennay Kekua wasn't dead when he got a phone call from her cell phone at an ESPN award show in December ... months after her supposed death.


The problem with this is that if Manti is as stupid as he must have been to "fall" for this hoax, he would just assume she was back from the dead.
   1922. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:47 AM (#4348757)
TMZ: "But something doesn't add up ... because Te'o's father had gone on record during the season saying Manti told him he and the GF would often meet up in Hawaii."
   1923. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:51 AM (#4348759)
Te'o to ESPN's Gene W. in a taped interview:

"Possibly the most beautiful girl I've ever met, not because of her physical beauty but the beauty of her character."


Does "met" not indicate that he met her in person?
   1924. DA Baracus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:52 AM (#4348761)
I really thought Chip Kelly was going to end up in the NFCW facing off against Harbaugh and Carroll for all eternity.


He does get to face Monte Kiffin twice a year. That's pretty good.
   1925. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:03 AM (#4348768)
Swarbrick claims that the school engaged an independent investigatory firm and that the school got a "final report" from them on Jan 4.

Swarbrick:

"We are very comfortable with the consistency in how it all fit together. Our investigators through their work were able to discover online chatter between the perpetrators that was sort of the ultimate proof of this, the joy they were taking, the sort of casualness with which among themselves they were referring to what they had accomplished and what they had done."
   1926. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:13 AM (#4348774)
Gene W.:

"The only thing was, we did ask him if we could have photos of Lennay, and he said the family preferred not to provide those, and we did ask him if we could speak to the family of Lennay, and he again said that the family would prefer to keep their privacy in this matter. Given the circumstances and the context of that moment, we had to respect those wishes. In retrospect, now it makes a little more sense I guess."

Also, Gene W. said that AT THE TIME, he did try to find an obituary or news story about her illness or memorial service and couldn't find one, and simply wrote it off as "Well, this is a family who valued its privacy, and we will respect that."
   1927. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:18 AM (#4348780)
Is Vegas offering a line on "Reba, a hoaxer, hears about the pending ESPN report and #### generally about to hit the fan, and shopped her version to Deadspin to get out ahead of the story"?
   1928. Tripon Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:21 AM (#4348783)
Kyle Bonagura ?@KyleBonagura
It's too bad Notre Dame didn't travel to Los Angeles this year, where Te'o could've met his dead GF's family. Oh wait, ND at USC, Nov. 24.
Retweeted by Bruce Arthur
   1929. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:57 AM (#4348796)
I like the mock draft showing Eifert to the Bears at 20
   1930. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:58 AM (#4348797)
"SI's Peter Famel described how Te'o would phone her in the hospital, stay on the line with her as she slept through the night, and her relatives told him that at her lowest points she fought to emerge from a coma hearing her breath rate increase at the sound of his voice."

Ok, Manti, who are these 'relatives'? Please produce them. Phone records? Descriptions? How often did you speak to them? Number of relatives?
   1931. zenbitz Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:27 AM (#4348806)
Why is all the insipid Manatee chatter not in the NCAAF thread?
   1932. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:38 AM (#4348809)
Manti:

1. Who told you that she has passed away? The hospital? Her parents? Her relatives? Friends?

Please supply names, phone numbers, and phone records.

2. Who was helping you to communicate with her via phone "every night for four months" as she was in the hospital and in and out of heavy sedation? The hospital? Her parents? Her relatives? Friends?

Please supply names, phone numbers, and phone records.

3. Which hospital was she checked into?

For this to be true you need a network of fairly skilled people involved in scamming him.

-------------

I'm revising my prediction of 48 hours downward: if he speaks on Thursday as planned, he will confess to the entire scheme. There is simply no way he was not involved. I would sooner believe that OJ is innocent.
   1933. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: January 17, 2013 at 02:57 AM (#4348810)
Is Vegas offering a line on "Reba, a hoaxer, hears about the pending ESPN report and #### generally about to hit the fan, and shopped her version to Deadspin to get out ahead of the story"?

I still don't understand where this interpretation is coming from. It's what I was asking STEAGLES on the previous page.

This week, we got in touch with a woman living in Torrance, Calif. We'll call her Reba, to protect her identity. She was initially confused, then horrified to find that she had become the face of a dead woman.

All of those photographs—with one important exception—came from the private Facebook and Instagram accounts of Reba, whom we found after an exhaustive related-images search of each of Lennay's images (most of which had been modified in some way to prevent reverse image searching).


And Ray - while I understand where you're coming from in being almost offended at the ludicrous nature of the whole story - none of these questions have the slightest chance of being answered. Te'o's going to stick to the 'I'm embarrassed' story and 'focus on moving on' etc.
   1934. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:02 AM (#4348811)
And Ray - while I understand where you're coming from in being almost offended at the ludicrous nature of the whole story - none of these questions have the slightest chance of being answered. Te'o's going to stick to the 'I'm embarrassed' story and 'focus on moving on' etc.


We'll see. I disagree. With all of these types of stories, they reach a fever pitch and don't let up until the person either deals with the inconsistencies/flaws, or (more likely) confesses. See, e.g., Anthony Weiner. Or even Roger Clemens. Clemens persisted in his innocence and finally after he testified and then the matter was referred to the justice dept the fever pitch of the story subsided.
   1935. AuntBea Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:19 AM (#4348813)
I know it is unlikely, but could it be that Te'o claimed he met her in person (and all the other stuff) because he was embarrassed to be having an online only relationship? That seems to be what Swarbrick was implying in his press conference. Also, Swarbrick really seems to be going out on a limb here if he knows or suspects that Te'o was involved in the hoax. I would be surprised if he were stupid enough to do that.

Swarbrick is claiming that there was a place to send flowers, multiple people involved in the hoax that could act as family members, etc. Basically he is implying that yes Te'o is that dumb. (Someone with his resources really should not be taken in by a scam like this, if he was indeed taken in.)
   1936. steagles Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:54 AM (#4348816)
I still don't understand where this interpretation is coming from. It's what I was asking STEAGLES on the previous page.
there's a second woman. there's "reba", the allegedly** innocent woman whose pictures were used, but there's also a second woman: the "inside man" who talked with te'o on the phone, the one whose mysterious phone call from the grave prompted te'o to report the incident to notre dame.


that 2nd woman is who i referred to in post 1904.


**i say allegedly because at this point, we don't actually know whether her involvement in this situation is really as benign as she makes it seem. that's kind of a fool me once... type thing.
   1937. Tripon Posted: January 17, 2013 at 03:59 AM (#4348819)
Reagan Mauia, an Arizona Cardinals fullback, said he believes Kekua existed because he met her in person when he and other Polynesian teammates and Pittsburgh Steelers star Troy Polamalu went to do charity work in American Samoa in June 2011.

"This was before her and Manti," Mauia said Wednesday evening. "I don't think Manti was even in the picture, but she and I became good friends. We would talk off and on, just checking up on each other kind of thing. I am close to her family. When she was going through the loss of her father, I was -- I offered a comforting shoulder and just someone to bounce her emotions off. That was just from meeting her in Samoa."

Mauia said Tuiasosopo -- whom Mauia believes is Kekua's cousin -- introduced the two. After the initial meeting, Mauia said he met her at an "after-party" for all of the athletes involved in the camp.

"She was tall," he said. "Volleyball-type of physique. She was athletic, tall, beautiful. Long hair. Polynesian. She looked like a model ... "

When reached by ESPN.com on Wednesday night, former University of Washington and NFL quarterback Marques Tuiasosopo acknowledged that he is a cousin of Ronaiah Tuiasosopo but said he never had met or heard of Kekua.

Mauia said it is his understanding that Kekua's mother is operating her Twitter account. He said he'd never met her mother. When told by a reporter that she apparently might not have existed, Mauia said: "No, she is real."

Te'o is training in preparation for the NFL draft at the IMG Institute in Bradenton, Fla. He is No. 8 on Mel Kiper's latest draft board.


Edit: Why the heck did it take Deadspin to break this story?
   1938. steagles Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:12 AM (#4348822)
Edit: Why the heck did it take Deadspin to break this story?
because other "news" outlets have class and aren't willing to risk dancing on the grave of a guy's dead girlfriend if there's a possibility that they're wrong.

deadspin, for better or worse, quite obviously has no such hangups.
   1939. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 17, 2013 at 04:32 AM (#4348825)
because other "news" outlets have class and aren't willing to risk dancing on the grave of a guy's dead girlfriend if there's a possibility that they're wrong.

deadspin, for better or worse, quite obviously has no such hangups.

You could say they'd spin stories on the dead if they had to...
   1940. Machine Posted: January 17, 2013 at 05:42 AM (#4348829)
   1941. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 08:07 AM (#4348838)
-- Manti is expected to address the media sometime tomorrow (Thursday).
-- Swarbrick says Manti met with a media team, who had planned to release the story to the media next week ... but they were scooped by Deadspin.
-- Manti told ND officials he had gone to Hawaii to meet Lennay in person on several occasions, but she never showed up.


See, this is where the whole thing becomes a self-referential feedback loop. People now care about this only because it proves something they talked too much about in the first place was inaccurate. The entire thing is a product of the 24/7/365/TMZ/Deadspin culture we live in wherein the personal life of a college football player is both exhibited and observed with an excess and a creepiness that boggles the mind.

Underlying this is literally nothing of substance.
   1942. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 08:38 AM (#4348842)
Half the Internet now believes Manti Te'o is gay. He might as well go on Oprah's show and confirm it.


If Manti really wants to double down rather than coming clean, he could go on Oprah and confess to being gay even if he isn't.
   1943. Greg K Posted: January 17, 2013 at 08:52 AM (#4348848)
Having first heard about this little escapade by stumbling across this thread 20 minutes ago, I think that would be awesome. Just the kind of mad cap hi-jinks that help pass the time in Janaury.
   1944. JJ1986 Posted: January 17, 2013 at 09:22 AM (#4348855)
-- Manti told ND officials he had gone to Hawaii to meet Lennay in person on several occasions, but she never showed up.


I don't think I would want anyone to think I was this dumb. Better to just tell the truth.
   1945. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 17, 2013 at 09:29 AM (#4348861)
I don't understand the derision at the thought of Terrelle Pryor. He didn't play for Oakland because they were committed to getting something out of their stupid Carson Palmer trade. He went straight from missing out on 2010 B1G MVP by the narrowest of margins, to being suspended for most of the season because of the stupid Jim Tressel memorabilia-selling thing. He's 23 years old and his career should be deemed over because of two outbreaks of organizational stupidity?
   1946. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 09:44 AM (#4348869)
Swarbrick claims that the school engaged an independent investigatory firm and that the school got a "final report" from them on Jan 4.


Which, since it was really for the player's benefit, should be a deemed a payment to the player in violation of NCAA rules. The cover, of course, is that Notre Dame was investigating its own actions and statements and media policies, but that's not the entire truth.

   1947. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 17, 2013 at 09:47 AM (#4348872)
Edit: Why the heck did it take Deadspin to break this story?

I haven't been able to keep up with all this but I was under the impression they were approached by one of the hoaxers.

Anyway, the internet is one big, giant archive so I'm sure the truth will surface.

I think the Chiefs player also being taken in does suggest Te'o was not involved, however, at a minimum it appears details were fabricated to (at a minimum) make it a better story or cover embarrassment of the fact it was his online girlfriend. So Te'o doesn't look good even under the "best" set of facts.
   1948. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 09:50 AM (#4348873)
So Notre Dame spent a bunch of money on lawyers and investigators to get to the bottom of whether a football player's online girlfriend was real.

That makes sense, exactly how?
   1949. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:02 AM (#4348877)
That makes sense, exactly how?


Maybe paranoid PR gambit, possibly the desperate fear that somehow somewhere there are NCAA violations buried there, possibly a desire to do something good and right?

Yeah I got nothing.
   1950. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM (#4348880)
notre dame's brand has a tremendous amount of value. anything that has the potential to damage that brand needs to be confronted

that and notre dame has a history of staying close to their football playing alumni. if notre dame walks away from the kid there will be other football playing alum who will find that upsetting. athletes expect unconditional support no matter how stupid their actions
   1951. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:15 AM (#4348883)
notre dame's brand has a tremendous amount of value. anything that has the potential to damage that brand needs to be confronted

Putting aside how ridiculous the whole thing is, since when can a school front a student-athlete lawyers and investigators to investigate a purely personal matter? If a non-athlete at ND thinks he got hoodwinked by an online dating service, does the school buy him lawyers and investigators?

Anything can come under the umbrella of "protecting the brand."(*) That's nothing more than an empty bromide -- another example of the marketing/MBA culture run completely amok.

(*) Including, e.g., covering for a child molester to protect the Penn State "brand."
   1952. DA Baracus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:19 AM (#4348884)
notre dame's brand has a tremendous amount of value. anything that has the potential to damage that brand needs to be confronted


Like covering up the suicide of a student who was sexually by a football player, and the rape of another student by a football player.
   1953. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:22 AM (#4348885)
Like covering up the suicide of a student who was sexually by a football player, and the rape of another student by a football player.

Hey, at least the program didn't get anyone killed this year.

edit: Directly, I mean.
   1954. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:23 AM (#4348888)
post 1951

notre dame is selling all kinds of things via hundreds of channels. using the term 'brand' represents all of those transactions which has huge dollar value

notre dame wants alumni donations, people buying hats and jackets, season tickets purchased, notre dame events attended, etc

this mess could cause a decrease in that spend activity. that is of concern to the leadership of notre dame

paying 100k or whatever for a private investigation is chump change relative to the dollars at risk
   1955. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:28 AM (#4348891)
paying 100k or whatever for a private investigation is chump change relative to the dollars at risk

If they have had opportunity to investigate and it looks like a scam Te'o was in on, don't you think they would rush to chuck him under the bus on this one?
   1956. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:31 AM (#4348892)
notre dame is selling all kinds of things via hundreds of channels. using the term 'brand' represents all of those transactions which has huge dollar value

notre dame wants alumni donations, people buying hats and jackets, season tickets purchased, notre dame events attended, etc

this mess could cause a decrease in that spend activity. that is of concern to the leadership of notre dame

paying 100k or whatever for a private investigation is chump change relative to the dollars at risk


I get all that. It's all evidence of a sports culture run completely amok. Far too much attention is paid to these people, in lieu of the games themselves, which boomerangs back and damages the games themselves -- my primary concern.

And you could have said the same thing 30 years ago. Michigan and Notre Dame football have been packing the stands and selling tickets and stuff for decades (*), yet 30 years ago we didn't see this kind of silliness. It's excessive and creepy.

(*) And there's been immense pressure on coaches for longer than that. As I'm sure you remember, Ara Parseghian couldn't handle the pressure at Notre Dame even though he won, and got out in the mid-70s.
   1957. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:36 AM (#4348895)
pops

i wonder if notre dame would distance themselves

   1958. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:41 AM (#4348898)
This doesn't make any more sense today. I don't see any way to reconcile the Deadspin article and Te'o's (is that correct?) recent statement. Te'o says that he talked to the girl. The Deadspin article doesn't mention a girl apart from "Reba", who purports to be completely unconnected to the hoax. Who is the mystery date? The article strongly implies one of Te'o's male relatives was behind the hoax. If true, that means multiple people were involved, which makes any narrative in which Te'o is duped to be very hard to believe, as there seems to be no payoff.

One could believe a story in which a girl pretended to be Te'o's girlfriend in order to benefit financially down the line, but then it makes no sense to kill her off, and in the most spectacular fashion possible.

If you ask 'cui bono?' then the only narratives that make any sense at all are those in which Te'o is complicit.
   1959. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:56 AM (#4348904)
Putting aside how ridiculous the whole thing is, since when can a school front a student-athlete lawyers and investigators to investigate a purely personal matter?


It's not a purely personal matter, insofar as the school was selling merchandise related to the whole thing. Shirts with leis printed on them as a reference to Te'o's tragic loss, that kind of stuff.
   1960. DA Baracus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 10:59 AM (#4348909)
This doesn't make any more sense today. I don't see any way to reconcile the Deadspin article and Te'o's (is that correct?) recent statement. Te'o says that he talked to the girl.


If--if--Te'o was really duped, it is not crazy that he would have lied about talking to her on the phone. People who have online only relationships will lie to others about actually meeting the people they "date."
   1961. Rickey!'s people were colonized by wankers Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:00 AM (#4348910)
Contrast this with Atlanta's problem. Their defense is solid, but not really outstanding, except maybe Asante Samuel. The front 4 is solid, but the LBs are unremarkable.


This is wrong. Samuel is still a ball hawk, but he's not notably better than Thomas DeCoup or Dunta Robinson. The two best players in the Falcons secondary are Sean Weatherspoon (MLB) and William Moore (SS).

EDIT: Stephen Nicholas (OLB) as well.
   1962. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:07 AM (#4348921)

If--if--Te'o was really duped, it is not crazy that he would have lied about talking to her on the phone.


Sure, but he repeated that assertion in his statement yesterday. I don't see how that benefits him now, but so be it. My point is that his statement and the Deadspin article are incompatible; if he lied as you suggest in his latest statement, then Q.E.D.
   1963. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM (#4348922)
It's not a purely personal matter, insofar as the school was selling merchandise related to the whole thing. Shirts with leis printed on them as a reference to Te'o's tragic loss, that kind of stuff.

Which has as its ultimate source the purely personal matter of the existence or nonexistence of a player's "girlfriend."

There's nothing that impacts the institution enough to warrant spending a bunch of money on lawyers and investigators. The money was really spent on Teo's behalf, to investigate things relating to his personal life, which should be an NCAA violation.
   1964. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:09 AM (#4348923)
People who have online only relationships will lie to others about actually meeting the people they "date."

da

you need to stop lying to your mom
   1965. Shredder Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:09 AM (#4348924)
OK, here's my theory that leaves this still kind of messed up, but not quite as nefarious as people may think:

1) Someone fools Te'o into thinking this girl exists, and he starts some sort of Catfish type relationship with her, which may include phone calls, though probably not to the extent reported. The whole "their eyes met at a game" etc. was all B.S., but not necessarily B.S. that came from Te'o, but rather just some reporter's embellishment that no one bothered to correct.

2) People start asking Te'o about it, and embarrassed, he just sort of runs with it, girlfriend in Canada style. "Sure, we've met and she's really beautiful". "We talk on the phone all the time". That sort of thing, hoping that whoever is asking the question isn't really all that interested and will eventually just drop the subject.

2A) Te'o's dad covers for him, more as a way to change the subject than anything. Instead of saying "leave his personal life out of this", he says "yeah, whatever, they've met in Hawaii before".

3) The whole thing kind of gets out of hand, and instead of admitting they've never met, an embarrassed Te'o runs with it, expecting that at some point they actually WILL meet, and everything will be fine and forgotten.

4) The hoaxer pulls the plug on the girlfriend. Note that this actually requires Te'o to believe that she existed and was actually now dead. That "talking on the phone until falling asleep thing" is one of those fabrications that starts with a grain of truth, and has morphed into a lie that Te'o runs with. Like maybe once, he and the hoaxer did this, and became a "sure, it happened all the time" type of thing. It's like one of those lies that Te'o starts telling until it reaches the point where he actually starts believing it.

5) Te'o finds out the truth, and basically here we are. I can understand, in that case, why he didn't run to the media and tell them as soon as he found out.

There are some holes here, and I'm not completely sold on the idea that this is how it played out. I can't explain the part about sending flowers, except that it was just yet another lie that seemed inconsequential at the time. I'm not really buying the idea that he's gay and this was all to cover that up. It seems that a Mormon kid at a Catholic school would have ample excuses to explain why he wasn't trying to bang co-eds without trying to concoct some elaborate ruse. Just say it's against your religion and your saving yourself for marriage. That's a hell of a lot more believable.

And finally, I did like the line in Swarbrick's presser about how Te'o was duped into a deep and emotional relationship with someone who didn't exist. Seems to me that's a pretty accurate description of most religions.
   1966. Nasty Nate Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:11 AM (#4348926)
The lines I am seeing are the 49ers favored by 4 points, and the Pats by 8.5.

I like the Falcons bet; I think they will either lose a squeaker or win outright. I'm a Pats fan and so I don't really bet on their games, but gun to my head I take the Ravens with the points.
   1967. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:13 AM (#4348930)
The money was really spent on Teo's behalf, to investigate things relating to his personal life, which should be an NCAA violation.


Repeating this doesn't make it any truer. Notre Dame is Notre Dame - not just in terms of selling t-shirts, but in terms of its reasonably lofty academics and faculty quality etc - because of its brand, and its brand derives from its football team. There's nothing inevitable about the continued success of a university, particularly a catholic university in a small, depressed city in Northern Indiana. While this isn't an existential crisis on the order of the Paterno scandal, it still is likely to meaningfully hurt the Notre Dame brand going forward, meaning less alumni donations, inferior applicant pool, etc. Determining whether to stand behind Teo or throw him under the bus is Notre Dame's most important decision in this mess, from a communications perspective, and making that decision requires investigating his culpability.

You may not LIKE this, but its the way higher education works. Newsflash; same thing goes on at the Ivies, Seven Sisters, etc. too, just not necessarily with respect to sports.
   1968. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:15 AM (#4348933)
Shredder,

Your theory is plausible up to the point where we have to ask the motivation for the hoax in the first place. And if she had to die, why not just die in a car accident, why the accident + leukemia + long drawn-out dying process?
   1969. DA Baracus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:16 AM (#4348934)
Sure, but he repeated that assertion in his statement yesterday.


I missed that. Well there goes that.

da

you need to stop lying to your mom


I laughed.
   1970. Shredder Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:23 AM (#4348941)
Your theory is plausible up to the point where we have to ask the motivation for the hoax in the first place. And if she had to die, why not just die in a car accident, why the accident + leukemia + long drawn-out dying process?
Are we talking about the hoaxer's motivation? People are crazy. Maybe the guy is a weirdo who wanted to have some sort of connection with a somewhat famous athlete, and he idolized Te'o for some reason. That's actually the component I'm least interested in. Maybe the accident was some sort of test, and the hoaxer didn't really want to end it at that point, and if that's the case, then it would be pretty suspicious to have her be in ANOTHER accident. I think there are plausible explanations for those two questions, so long as you believe the hoaxer is a whack job. Also, there's a connection between Te'o and the hoaxer per the Deadspin story, so he may have already known that Te'o had a blind spot.

The one thing I really have absolutely no explanation for at all, the one thing that absolutely boggles my mind, is this guy from the Cardinals saying he's met her a bunch of times. It's like he's in on it, but doesn't realize the game is up. Like when you're the one guy in a room trying to play along with the story when everyone, including the mark, already knows the truth. Maybe he missed a memo.
   1971. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:23 AM (#4348942)
Repeating this doesn't make it any truer.

No, but it was true even before the repetition. Schools can't pay the legal bills of athletes for their personal affairs, otherwise the NCAA rules regarding improper benefits would be meaningless. And purely personal things can't become "institutional" just because the institution will look bad if the personal affairs of the athlete are exposed, or literally everything about the athletes' life would be "institutional."

The underlying source of this entire story is Teo's entirely personal affairs. They don't have a thing to do with sports or his role as a scholarship athlete.
   1972. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:24 AM (#4348944)
Some Swarbrick highlights:


-- Manti is expected to address the media sometime tomorrow (Thursday).
-- Swarbrick says Manti met with a media team, who had planned to release the story to the media next week ... but they were scooped by Deadspin.
-- Manti told ND officials he had gone to Hawaii to meet Lennay in person on several occasions, but she never showed up.

That third one is a howler. Yet, she was still his girlfriend!


What's your point? Eliza Dushku is totally my gf, even though she keeps forgetting to show up for our dates.
   1973. tshipman Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:28 AM (#4348947)
Isn't the Manti=Gay on the DL explanation the one that makes the most sense?

IOW, he actually was in a relationship, with this Ronniah guy (btw, what a weird flashback that he was Marques's cousin). The car accident thing seemed to happen at the same time. If he was just punking the media, why not admit to it? Some people would think it was funny, some people would be horrified, but no one would draft him lower because of it.

Gay on the DL is the only thing that explains his incentives to lie here. He obviously can't come out before the NFL draft, and maybe not at all.
   1974. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:29 AM (#4348948)

No, but it was true even before the repetition. Schools can't pay the legal bills of athletes for their personal affairs, otherwise the NCAA rules regarding improper benefits would be meaningless. And purely personal things can't become "institutional" just because the institution will look bad if the personal affairs of the athlete are exposed, or literally everything about the athletes' life would be "institutional."


These lawyers aren't Manti Te'o's lawyers. That's highly meaningful when lawyers are conducting an investigation because, among other things, if they uncover that Te'o is in on the hoax, that information can be published by Notre Dame. It benefits Notre Dame to fully investigate the hoax; if Te'o ancillarily benefits (and that only happens if he wasn't "in" on it), then that's great for him but its not an improper benefit.
   1975. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:30 AM (#4348950)
The lines I am seeing are the 49ers favored by 4 points, and the Pats by 8.5.

I like the Falcons bet; I think they will either lose a squeaker or win outright. I'm a Pats fan and so I don't really bet on their games, but gun to my head I take the Ravens with the points.

I got Baltimore when it was briefly at +10, that was a no-brainer. Back down at 9-9.5 at the online places I frequent. Holding off on Atlanta +175 for now. Like it more than the points, but I think if the line moves it will go higher, so no need to rush.
   1976. Tom Nawrocki Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:35 AM (#4348957)
Shirts with leis printed on them as a reference to Te'o's tragic loss, that kind of stuff.


What? I would assume a Notre Dame shirt with a lei printed on it was a reference to Te'o's being from Hawaii.
   1977. Rickey!'s people were colonized by wankers Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4348959)
Gay on the DL is the only thing that explains his incentives to lie here.


If you're running with the "gay on the DL" angle, you can't forget the "Mormon at a Catholic school" add on.
   1978. DA Baracus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4348960)
Isn't the Manti=Gay on the DL explanation the one that makes the most sense?


If so it's the stupidest cover they could think of.

Plus there's this:

It was an open secret on campus Te'o "had relations with other girls," according to Moorehead.
   1979. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4348961)
Are we talking about the hoaxer's motivation? People are crazy. Maybe the guy is a weirdo


But it's not "a guy". There are at least two people involved (the guy and whatever girl talked to Te'o) and the Deadspin story suggests that it may well have been more than that. The more people involved, the less the "crazy" hypothesis is credible.
   1980. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4348963)
if Te'o ancillarily benefits (and that only happens if he wasn't "in" on it), then that's great for him but its not an improper benefit.

He benefits even if he was in on it, because Notre Dame pays fees he would otherwise have to pay -- in the same way that senior corporate executives benefit from a board's "investigation" of corporate malfeasance (*) He doesn't have to be the lawyers' only client for the principle to apply.

(*) The end of both the Teo investigation and the typical corporate investigation encompassing the exoneration of the principals. Notre Dame isn't "investigating" to find the truth; they're "investigating" to find a way to say Teo was hoaxed.
   1981. DA Baracus Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:37 AM (#4348964)
What? I would assume a Notre Dame shirt with a lei printed on it was a reference to Te'o's being from Hawaii.


I bet they made money off of this.
   1982. Nasty Nate Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:38 AM (#4348965)
#1940 is great
   1983. Nasty Nate Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:41 AM (#4348969)
Like it more than the points, but I think if the line moves it will go higher, so no need to rush.


I would think it will get bigger, too.
   1984. Rickey!'s people were colonized by wankers Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:42 AM (#4348971)
The niners weakness (such as it is) is shifty slot receivers not named Wes Welker...


So, assume the 49ers use both safeties to cover over the top on the split wides, essentially doubling Roddy White and Julio Jones. At that point they have to cover Tony Gonzalez, Harry Douglas in the slot, and Jacquizz Rodgers out of the backfield. They also have to account for bubble screens to the wideouts, Jones in particular.

If they spread their defense that thin they have to stop Turner and Rodgers out of the back field with their front four.

Seattle was probably the best equipped defense to shut down Atlanta's offense, with Sherman and Browner capable of playing White and Jones 1 on 1.
   1985. Shredder Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:45 AM (#4348973)
But it's not "a guy". There are at least two people involved (the guy and whatever girl talked to Te'o)
This assumes he talked to anyone, which I'm not 100% convinced of.
   1986. Tom Nawrocki Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:47 AM (#4348976)
So, assume the 49ers use both safeties to cover over the top on the split wides, essentially doubling Roddy White and Julio Jones. At that point they have to cover Tony Gonzalez, Harry Douglas in the slot, and Jacquizz Rodgers out of the backfield.


That leaves no one to help block in the backfield, and the 49ers have a pretty good pass rush. Matty Ice better get rid of the ball fast.

If they spread their defense that thin they have to stop Turner and Rodgers out of the back field with their front four.


But since you've already sent all the eligible receivers out on pass patterns, that leaves only the five o-linemen to block for Turner or Rodgers.
   1987. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:52 AM (#4348979)
This assumes he talked to anyone, which I'm not 100% convinced of.


But if he didn't, then he lied in his statement yesterday. That's my point. His statement is incompatible with the Deadspin story. Something has to give.

Moreover, if he didn't, he lied when he told Gene Wojciechowski that he fell asleep with her on the phone every night for four months straight. That's damning in itself. No, his entire case at the moment has as its foundation the claim that there was a real girl whom he talked to repeatedly on the phone.
   1988. Rickey!'s people were colonized by wankers Posted: January 17, 2013 at 11:55 AM (#4348982)
But since you've already sent all the eligible receivers out on pass patterns, that leaves only the five o-linemen to block for Turner or Rodgers.


You're aware, of course, of the concept of the play-calling mix?
   1989. Shredder Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:00 PM (#4348986)
Moreover, if he didn't, he lied when he told Gene Wojciechowski that he fell asleep with her on the phone every night for four months straight. That's damning in itself.
Oh, there's a lot of lying going on. I thought that was evident in what I wrote. He could still be the victim of a hoax, despite the fact that he's lied about a bunch of stuff along the way. And it wouldn't shock me if he was still lying about things up through yesterday.

Let me put it another way. It's possible that he was totally reeled in by someone on the other end of this story, and that he fell for the whole thing hook, line, and sinker. It's also possible, if that last sentence is true, that he ALSO lied and embellished elements of story (and indeed, is still doing so). The two are not mutually exclusive. It's possible to believe that he thought this person was real based on their electronic communications, AND that he tried to convince other people that there was more to the relationship than there really was.
   1990. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4348987)
Isn't the Manti=Gay on the DL explanation the one that makes the most sense?


Who knows. Nothing really makes much "sense" at this point. But if it's true that he's gay, it would be far better to just say that.

After which we can all blame society for Making Him Do This.
   1991. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4348988)
#1940 is great


All the more so for not being the expected (at least by me) Albright pic.
   1992. JJ1986 Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4348992)
that he tried to convince other people that there was more to the relationship than there really was.


If this is true, then his father is in on it which is one more bit of weirdness.
   1993. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:07 PM (#4348997)
But if he didn't, then he lied in his statement yesterday. That's my point. His statement is incompatible with the Deadspin story. Something has to give.


His statement is incompatible with his previous statements.

Really, phone records will go a very long way towards proving or disproving this.

But if he lied the first 1,000 times, I wouldn't be all that shocked that he lied in his statement yesterday.

I think we're down to this. Either:

1. This was a vast conspiracy, with a number of highly skilled people involved in duping him, and he was extremely gullible and stretched the truth himself to avoid admitting it was just an online relationship; or

2. He is lying through his teeth.

I'm going with 2.

And 1 doesn't even really make sense, because (a) it is really something that only happens in Hollywood, and (2) there are so many inconsistencies in his story and so many previous statements of his that he'd have to walk back that it just is too difficult to do.

"I met her." "Well, I didn't actually meet her in person."

"My son went to Hawaii a number of times to see her." "Well, I went down there on multiple occasions but she never showed. But I still called her my girlfriend."

Etc etc.


   1994. Shredder Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:07 PM (#4348999)
Just up at Deadspin, with regard to the Reagan Maui'a angle:
One source close to Ronaiah Tuiasosopo, the man suspected of being behind the hoax, says he created Lennay Kekua as far back as 2008 and Te'o "wasn't the first person to have an online 'relationship' with her." So it's entirely possible that Tuiasosopo, from a big Hawaii football family, found marks in other local football products—like Reagan Maui'a. But his story of meeting "Kekua" would mean there was an actual, physical woman involved at one point. Every answer leads to twice as many questions.
When ESPN included this part of the story last night, it became the strangest part of the whole thing in my opinion. This at least partially explains it.
   1995. Every Inge Counts Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:08 PM (#4349000)
so, out of dixon, webb, pryor, locker, manuel, tebow, foles, and smith, my ideal would be the reverse of that order. but taking into account that foles is already an eagle and the eagles would have to spend a top 10 pick to get smith, i think that just about becomes a toss-up.


i'm pretty sure that i was the first person to jump on the nick foles bandwagon in philly considering i was on it before he was even drafted, but it's hard to deny that a dual-threat QB isn't just a huge competitive advantage, so if smith is the guy, i'd be okay with that


Why isn't Vick an option still?

I think one name to remember for the Eagles during the draft would be another Arizona Wildcat QB: Matt Scott.
   1996. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:08 PM (#4349001)
Shredder's theory is basically the same thing I said last page (1866). I agree that's less bad than if he were in on the hoax, or whathaveyou. I don't fully believe it either, but we'll see what he says when ESPN releases the one on one interview he does with Jeremy Schaap (no press conference).
   1997. tshipman Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:08 PM (#4349003)
Who knows. Nothing really makes much "sense" at this point. But if it's true that he's gay, it would be far better to just say that.


Is that really true? If he comes out before the draft, I'm pretty sure it costs him a lot of money. It would take the right coach, right lockerroom, etc, to pick him in the first round.

Financially, he's better off sticking to his bizarre story. It will blow over in a couple weeks.

***

Sam is going the full STEAGLES on the Hawks apparently.
   1998. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4349011)
The Teo family played on America's need to have the athletes they follow on TV and the internet be better people than they actually are.(*) It isn't enough that Teo is a good football player; he has to be a hero "overcoming great personal adversity," a narrative that the hacks on ESPN can beat into the ground.

Wake up, America: The people you're obsessing over are, with few exceptions, the country's future gym teachers, rec directors, and small-time football coaches. A lot of them won't even amount to that. They aren't remotely interesting enough people to warrant all the attention you lavish them with, and the hopes and dreams you project onto them.

(*) Well, either that or Manti Te'o's perceived need to stay in the closet.
   1999. Tom Nawrocki Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4349012)

If this is true, then his father is in on it which is one more bit of weirdness.


Why does his father have to be in on it? His father said that Manti met her in Hawaii a few times. Manti supposedly told ND officials he had tried to meet the girlfriend in Hawaii, but she didn't show up. So he probably told his father as well that he was meeting this girl in Hawaii, and his father naturally had no reason to doubt the story.

And when she failed to show up, Manti probably was too embarrassed to tell his dad that his Internet girlfriend stood him up. Or maybe he lied and said she had shown up, just to avoid embarrassment. There's no reason the father should know they never actually met.

   2000. JJ1986 Posted: January 17, 2013 at 12:19 PM (#4349016)
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