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So did I. Although I suppose the ND statement referred to the day ND found out from Te'o.
I did too. Te'o told the school found on out Dec. 26th, claims he found out on the 6th.
The awards show was on the 6th.
I still don't know if he's lying or duped, and now I have more questions.
That doesn't pass the smell test.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/scout-manti-draft-stock-thrown-loss-article-1.1241810
Perhaps, but a 7th-round pick? Lavonte David was also first-team Big 10, and he was drafted in the 2nd round. I think Dennard was a third-round talent, no worse than 4th at most. Belichick himself said that the arrest affected his draft stock.
Earlier in the article:
Well, you wouldn't, unless perhaps your fact checker kept drawing blanks?
What about any detail? Was there a single detail the fact checker was able to corroborate?
And I don't think the Pulitzer Committee should be fawning over Deadspin, either. They seem to be holding back a lot of information. They tracked down the Photo Girl -- good for them -- but as I understand it, they don't explain the connection between her and the Creepy Guy allegedly using her photo or address why she thinks he is involved. And why are they giving anonymity to Creepy Guy's "friend" so he can say he is 80% sure Te'o knew?
Te'o may have been in on it, or he may be an extremely gullible person who was played. It's probably going to take a few more days to know which.
Who would this "family" be? Him knowing her "family" would extend the number of hoaxers beyond one, right?
And who reported to him that she had died? Obviously she couldn't have.
This is all detailed. They were high school classmates, at one point he asked her for one of the photos that was used.
Agreed, but Thamel did a follow up 2 months later. He whiffed on a chance to ask questions about it. He could have easily slipped in questions like "do you have a picture of her?" (assuming it was in person and not a phone interview) or "how many times did you see her?" Perfectly normal questions in that situation.
"Her brother" called him.
Using the phone, using Twitter, scheduling meetings in Hawaii with him, having him talk to her and her brother and her parents, creating a "sister" of hers via Twitter, etc etc?
Would it go on for months and years? Would it be set up over a period of years, seeds planted *years* before they actually started dating? Is that it?
He really needs to show the phone records. If he has phone records where he talked to "her" virtually nightly over a period of four months, and frequently for a longer period than that, I will believe him, I will believe that he is the most gullible person on the planet who stretched the truth in interviews even going so far as to deceive and mislead people because he was embarrassed about the relationship being online -- but not a participant in the hoax.
Pos has a good bit on Tony Gonzalez up at Sports on Earth.
That's what the Deadspin article plainly says happened.
Obviously. But the question was whether this fits the profile of catfishing.
I was just dialflipping, and rolled my eyes at first but - damn.
This was three different women who each fell for the same catfish around the same time. Two of them got the same fake pictures of the guy, even. The catfish turned out to be - a middle-aged WOMAN, not a young guy.
These were attractive women, not wallflowers. And it was similar to this - intense texting and emails, a feeling of falling in love... plus numerous plans to meet, only to have a virus or a loved one's car accident, or something else get in the way.
These went on for more than a year. The women are humiliated now, but they believed what they wanted to believe.
I don't necessarily believe any of this Notre Dame guy's story, but apparently it is true that even desirable people can fall for this. This woman even finessed the voice problem - the rare calls would be while she "had a cold" or "was hung over" or whatever.
So it can happen.
Yeah, but Te'o's a guy. I mean, honestly, what guy gets all misty over an Internet pen pal he's never so much as met, much less touched? Did they even Skype? I mean ... please.
This thing is so postmodern and weird, I'm having problems seeing where the "hoax" is. It's not really the person themself, since Te'o did communicate with a person who I guess he became fond of. And she was a woman.(*) So in what sense did she not "exist"? She wasn't who she said she was, I guess, but you don't need the internet for that.
I guess the "hoax" is that she died of leukemia, but if she didn't in fact die, why doesn't Te'o just get back together with her?
(*) And even that doesn't really matter, if a guy could play a woman that could be attractive in an online sense, the only sense in which Te'o knew "her."
A Notre Dame fan site I infrequent had some interesting (though obviously fourth hand and not necessarily reliable) information.
A twitter account was created which only followed Te'o and the Kekua account. Right around the time of the alleged car accident, Robert Woods (USC wide receiver) tweeted the dummy account saying, "hahaha sick, what did you guys do today"
The posters there baldly stated that Tuiasosopo has some sort of USC connections and it's plausible that he knows Robert Woods in some fashion.
EDIT: the implication is that the dummy account never sent tweets to anyone so the only reason Woods would tweet that account is if he knew who controlled it.
Or even basic background information. After interviewing him, you tell the intern to do some interweb searches to see what others reported on her death or the accident, what was in the obituary, etc. Maybe others have talked to the family and you can quote them. You don't have to even doubt his story to do this stuff.
I only heard the term today, but Te'o's version of the events would seem to describe a "catfishing" scenario. And if you Google the term, you can quite easily find the story of a guy who was a victim, but was able to make a documentary out of the experience and is now developing a TV show.
that's the difference between the Podunk Press and SI, for instance - the latter factchecks everything, precisely so this can't happen. The former guy may be shoveling out 4 stories a day. Doesn't excuse a lack of verification, but it's hardly surprising, either.
The 'big dog' news operations that failed here are a looking at a systemic blunder - they had people trying to verify info, being obviously unable to do so to any factual degree (getting someone to say 'yeah, that' is not the same as documentation), then running it anyway.
If we're lucky, they'll tighten up their standards, at least. What probably kills many of them right now is that while the puff piece "hero overcomes tragedy" saga moves the merchandise - so does undercovering a fraud. And the latter even lets you get taken seriously in the journalistic community.
It already is a TV show on MTV. And by sheer coincidence yesterday MTV aired the movie and then a marathon of episodes.
Sometimes the jokes write themselves.
It was more surprising, to me, to learn that they had made attempts to fact check this than if I had learned that they hadn't made any attempts.
We have both SI and ESPN (at least Gene W) making attempts to fact check, and either running into closed doors from Manti or getting past various doors but into empty rooms, and yet somehow running the base story anyway, with some modifications to account for the fact that they couldn't find any facts.
But where does even finding no obituary get you? Someone told Te'o she was dead, Te'o repeated it and would have no way of knowing otherwise ... where's the lie and the hoax? What "facts" are you even checking?
Again, postmodern to its core -- there really aren't any "facts" here to check or confirm. Accepting the premise that one can have a "girlfriend" through strictly online communication, in what sense did Teo's girlfriend not "exist"? Indeed, in what sense did Lennay Kukua not "exist"? She may have lied about her name, but there's no sense in which she didn't "exist."
And the plot gets thicker.
I saw that movie "Catfish" and apparently there are people that set up all these false profiles to live these identities apart from their own. I just thought that happened on games like "World of Warcraft".
I'm entirely serious. Read the questions again, closely.
Agreed, but we are talking about sports writers, who are by and large useless. These are the reporters that write about narrative over fact, they aren't investigative reporters. Then again those things rarely exist anymore.
It's plausible that maybe she never really went to Stanford, or the family didn't run a death notice in the local paper, and so on. Not a story-ender at that point.
But to not be able to turn up a single verifiable thing about this girl, her brother, etc. after reasonable professional journalistic effort is extremely implausible, even among young people these days. There are very few ciphers left.
All the big boys are probably reeling on this, but I'd guess SI most of all. One of the last bastions they had in the biz was ruthless factchecking.
At least a few people suggest that the entire set up for that documentary was staged.
Yes. As far as I understand it, at most they had a Twitter account of hers. And absolutely nothing else. And this despite there being a number of highly verifiable things: birth, school, accident, family, death... existence. Okay, maybe you come up dry on one or two of those. But not all. Being shut out on *all* is highly implausible. At a minimum it absolutely requires followup with Te'o.
It perhaps will come out that the person in the Lennay picture was involved in the whole thing, but I think the prevailing view so far is that a dude (_____ Tuiasosopo) ingratiated himself with Te'o by getting Te'o to fall in love with a beautiful (picture of a) woman who had only an online personality. It's likely (IMHO) that all the letters, texts, etc. from Lennay were written by Tuiasosopo.
So unless Te'o is willing to adopt the "Nobody's Perfect" POV from "Some Like It Hot," or play a real-life "Crying Game," he ain't getting back together with Lennay. Because she's a man, man.
No, this wouldn't work by itself. There has to have been more people involved than just Tuiasosopo. Because Te'o said that he spent countless nights and hours talking to this girl. So there has to be an actual female involved - i.e., more people than just Tuiasosopo, unless Tuiasosopo is REALLY good at talking in a high girly voice.
AND there has to be people pretending to be family members of her - again, unless this Tuiasosopo was playing those roles as well.
Or, has been said many times, Te'o fudged these parts of the stories a bit, maybe more than a bit, to avoid embarassment.
Well, from that SI interview with Te'o, most of the time they spent talking on the phone was Te'o listening to "Lennay" breathe. Literally. Literally, listening to his comatose "girlfriend" breathe. I have a pretty deep voice myself, but I'll bet I could pull that off.
It is not at all clear to me that they had many voice-to-voice conversations. I believe this guy is a gulli-bull (if not a nin-cow-poop), it's plausible that Te'o believed that a falsetto Tuiasosopo was a girl. Or, Tuiasosopo had a female friend do the limited voice work.
If you read the SI interview with that lens, it mostly hangs together. For example, when he is asked when they met, he responds that "She saw me" at whatever game it was. Te'o's answers in that interview very much smack of someone in an online relationship infused with a lot of make-believe.
It's one thing to not disclose that you never met her in person because you are embarrassed that it was purely an online/phone relationship.
Quite another to literally make up the "fact" that you spent every night on the phone for 4 months talking to her. That goes beyond being less than forthcoming because you were embarrassed to outright lying.
Pos has a good bit on Tony Gonzalez up at Sports on Earth.
Gonzalez started playing in KC when we lived out there. We stayed 4 more years and moved back to Philly since -- almost 12 years ago. My oldest son was 10 at the time; he's turning 26 next month. That's just incredible.
That's the thing--talking "to" her. While she was unable to communicate, but her breath could quicken at the sound of his voice.
So now we're supposed to believe that the countless hours he spent on the phone with her included very few actual words being exchanged?
What about this, from the SI article:
Or this:
No, we're supposed to believe either:
A) There were actually phone calls with someone pretending to be her on the other line and he didn't know it was a ruse
or
B) He made it all up because he was embarrassed that he had fallen in love with a person he only interacted with online
Those seem to be the most likely explanations, with option B being more likely.
I'd never really considered the real heft of Gonzalez' career until I read the Pos piece.
"Told me" [via text message, perhaps]. The next day she'd say [in an e-mail, perhaps] "Babe, my back is sore...." These are not inconsistent with a mainly online relationship.
The people on BBTF, for sure, can understand that you can get pretty emotionally charged up (e.g.: angry) about something written by someone you've never even met. I've mainly lurked for the ~8 years I've been a Primer/BBTF member, but even I have seen the suppositions and ad hominem attacks that are triggered by people's words. This is the same thing, but instead, there are POSITIVE feelings triggered by the words.
He turns 22 next week, which is younger than I would have guessed...
Unless "Lennay Kekua" is Hawaiian for "Meatwad" ...
Nah. Surely not.
If we're being asked to excuse this blatant a lie -- that he spoke to her every night for four months, as well as countless others of these kinds of lies -- then I don't particularly care whether he was in on the hoax or not. It's pretty much as bad.
He lied at every turn, or engaged in half-truths and deceptions. A "girlfriend." He "spoke" to her every night for four months. He spoke to "her family." He "visited" her. He "met" her. He commented about her AFTER he supposedly found out it was a hoax. Even assuming every inference in his favor, the whole thing was one big pile of half-truths and deceptions, if not flat out lies. I am not particularly interested in excusing that type of nonsense because he was embarrassed about... an online relationship? That is supposed to justify this behavior? He played everyone for fools.
If so, then the hoax was put back on immediately again -- she didn't 'die' from the accident. Maybe one of the hoaxers didn't want it to end and sent Te'o a message that she 'miraculously' pulled through, and the rest of the hoaxers had to go along or be found out. I don't know, it might not be any more bizarre than the other hypotheses.
i mean, if he's gay, yeah, i agree with the post from yesterday that he should just double down and milk that #### as far as it'd get him.
otherwise, i think he'd be best off to stay away from the camera and just try to connect with a single NFL team that has a pick in the mid-late first round and just make sure that he won't fall beyond that pick.
nothing good can come from him talking again, so until you get cash in your pocket, don't.
and the offical statements have the taint of "vaugely beliveable cover up".
Anyway, victimless non crime. Will keep him out of MLBs hall of fame, i guess.
If you want real family "dirt", McCarron's uncle did get busted a few months back as part of a pedo ring.
Look up the Brittney Wood case (McCarron's cousin by marriage) - the case has methheads galore, a missing girl, incest, a bunch of the family getting arrested, a suicide, family infighting. It's like every stereotype of rural Southerners come to life, but sadly does involve a still-missing, and presumably dead, young mother.
Also, I don't think the idea that he knows this Ronaiah Tuiasosopo really supports the idea that this was some random catfishing. But who knows.
Steagles, I again state my belief that he will have to talk at some point soon - and that he will.
No. "She" specifically told him to not go if it interfered with him playing a game. "It's what she wanted."
So what happened after "She" "died"? Did her family stop calling him? Her brother? Did he hear no more from them?
all that leaves you with what? the girl who talked to deadspin? the more she talks the more likely it'll be that holes appear in her story, so that's actually good for te'o.
the worst thing that could happen if te'o keeps his mouth shut is that his teammates start coming out and air their grievances in the press.
but if he comes out and explains himself and isn't convincing, then the school walks away from him, his teammates pull out all the dirty laundry from his time at notre dame, and anyone who's even remotely involved gets interviewed by bryant gumble on HBO.
if you're te'o, just cut your losses. take the hit, fall out of the top 10 or the top 20, but get into the NFL, make some money, and go forward from there.
I don't think it was random.
I think it's one of two things:
- Ronaiah Tuiasosopo is a jock-sniffer who crafted a way to get close to the ND team (witness all the supportive texts sent by "Lennay" to other team members)
- Ronaiah Tuiasosopo had an unrequited crush on Te'o, and, in a perverse way, found a way for Te'o to fall in love with him. It's Cyrano on top of all of the other mythic elements involved
I feel pretty confident in the above, but who knows. It could also be that Te'o is gay (NTTAWWT) and this was all a cover story. Or he really is a bad guy who hyped this so a true defensive player could actually win the Heisman. I really doubt that, though. I've known some really trusting, highly religious, sheltered folks that I'm sure would be susceptible to this kind of thing.
I would guess further that Tuiasosopo decided at some point he wanted to end it, and, knowing how head-over-heels Te'o was, the only way out was to put Lennay in a coma. The only problem is, Te'o is Tebow-esque in his religiousness, and he wasn't the kind of guy who was going to leave his comatose "girlfriend." It only added to his devotion--standing by her was the right thing to do. So Tuiasosopo actually had to kill her off to actually end it.
The "resurrection" I do find hard to explain/understand, unless Tuaisosopo longed for his connection to Te'o and the team, and he thought he might be able to resuscitate it.
It seems likely that it's one of these, at least initially. Or maybe 2b - weird hopeful flirting with plausible denability. "What? you're a dude" with hope of "Hey, maybe that could work" but 99% chance of "Na Na, fooled' ya into thinking I was a girl"
But also could just be a goof on Te'o (since they knew each other), then Te'o finds out and just rolls with it ...
Why does it have to be so sinister? He's 21 and a football player for cripes sake. Maybe it was just a prank that got out of hand. I mean "making up stuff to reporters" isn't a crime is it?
What makes this story kind of interesting for me is that I have a history of online relationships. I grew up in Toronto and while I was in high school met a girl from Saskatchewan (about 1000 miles away) online. We talked for over a year or so and met twice in that period (she visited me for a week once, and I visited her for a week).
At that point I went to a univeristy in Saskatchewan pretty much exclusively because of the relationship. We subsequently broke up, though we still stay in touch. Things actually worked out really great for me in the long run. For loads of other reasons me going to school in Saskatchewan was far, far better for me than had I gone to school in Toronto (as I likely would have).
Anyway, this is all to say that I can identify a bit with some of the theories advanced about this guy. In that, at the time I definitely lied about certain aspects of the relationship to friends and family because it's kind of embarassing. Even to this day I feel kind of silly admitting it. But I've actually come across a surprising amount of people of my generation who have similar experiences.
All of which isn't to say I believe this guy at all...but the experience of meeting people online and associating with them almost exclusively online (I probably talked to this girl for almost a year before actually meeting here, and to be honest I had probably already decided to move out to her before meeting her in person) is more common than you might think.
And Lizzy Seeberg, the 19-year-old St. Mary's student who committed suicide after her (entirely plausible) allegation of sexual assault against an ND football player went uninvestigated by the authorities.
To the Notre Dame higher-ups, Manti Te'o is a victim worthy of tears and sympathy, and school-funded investigators, but Lizzy Seeberg and Declan Sullivan -- you know, actual students -- are fodder to be marginalized by The Machine.
Stay classy, ND.
I'm curious, what should Notre Dame have done to not marginalize them?
That's where the story falls apart. The idea that you wouldn't move your online relationship with your "girlfriend" to at least video chats is preposterous on its face.
Well, for starters, investigate her claims and kick the perps off the team. In addition to being sexually assaulted (probably), she was sent menacing texts in an effort to shut her up.
And then don't hide the records of what happened from her family, as ND did.
The disparate treatment afforded Manti Te'o and Lizzy Seeberg is an abject disgrace, on a number of levels.
Te'o was exchanging tweets with an account that was supposedly Lennay's sister for at least a while. The Deadspin article talks about it.
I would never, ever...ever, EVER use a video chat, or skype or the like. For any reason whatsoever...ok, maybe if it was job-related. And I'm probably in a position where it would make sense for me to use (being on a different continent from family and many friends).
Though I think it's fair enough to say the vast majority of girlfriends who are actual people wouldn't let me get away with that.
EDIT: again, not saying I believe anything about this guy's story.
########.
EDIT: Funny enough, this week's episode was about a good looking, QB of the football team type who fell in love with some girl he'd never met who claimed to live in the same state and she managed to get away with not seeing him for perhaps over a year or so (IIRC). When Nev (showrunner) got them to meet, turned out she was a he.
edit: even if the perpetrator was real, the "victim" almost certainly suspected it and let it continue to shoot the film.
EDIT: Or what JJ said.
I think you're selling people's ability to believe just about anything and behave extremely awkwardly short. Especially when it comes to relationships.
I'd actually recommend it to a few based on this thread. It could be quite surprising I'm thinking.
Obviously there's a lot fishy, and just plain unbelievable elements about Te'o's case. It seems pretty obvious he's lying about a great deal. But some of the elements aren't that far out of leftfield for the run of the mill online relationship these days.
EDIT: It wouldn't surprise me if "Catfish" was a hoax. But at a certain level it doesn't really matter.
The investigation was turned over to the county prosecutor (as it should have been from the beginning). The 10 day delay in the investigation definitely looks bad.
With respect to kicking the accused out of the university, there is a complicating event in ND's past.
This is all from memory but back in the late 90's or ealy 00's a woman accused three ND players of raping her. ND immediately kicked them out and later the woman recanted her story a la Duke Lacrosse. In that situation the university had acted quickly but ended up just making a bad situation worse. When the prosecutor elected to not press charges because of the death of the victim and conflicting witness statements I can't be that critical of letting the player be.
Now, as to his non-football playing neanderthal friend who sent her those texts, I hope he was booted but we will never know because of federal laws.
Te'o is clearly a raging liar, but as has been pointed out, his motivation for being a raging liar remains unclear.
As for me, I cannot believe how incredibly gullible and naive people are about online relationships. Until you see them on Skype or in person, THEY ARE A MAN.
So Notre Dame itself feels compelled to do a thorough investigation of whether a football player's online "girlfriend" was real, but not to investigate in any way, shape, or form whether two of its football players sexually assaulted a woman and sent her threatening texts?
You can see how disproportionate and senseless that is, right?
Seriously. Didn't people learn anything from Bart Simpson catfishing Mrs. Crabapple? What I don't get is what's the appeal for the deceiver in these situations? It seems like a lot of trouble just to #### with someone like that. That's just way too much work for me. I prefer lazy practical jokes and mindfucks.
What are you talking about? How was it "not investigated in any way shape or form"?
My wife showed me a TMZ article where Tuiasosopo auditioned for The Voice and told them some outlandish sob story about a car accident where a friend was rendered comatose. Apparently he just likes to do this stuff for fun and/or attention.
They turned it over to prosecutors, as you said. Notre Dame, the institution, did not investigate the sexual assault charge or the threatening texts. They did, however, investigate the entirely trivial, bordering on juvenile, issue of whether a football player's online "girlfriend" was real.
Moreover, the Athletic Director referred to the football player as a "victim" and shed tears for him. Did he ever do the same for Declan Sullivan or Lizzy Seeberg -- actual victims of the football program?
He is besmirching the legendary name of Tuiasosopo! Crissakes, that family is practically football royalty.
They turned it over to prosecutors, as you said. Notre Dame, the institution, did not investigate the sexual assault charge or the threatening texts. They did, however, investigate the entirely trivial, bordering on juvenile, issue of whether a football player's online "girlfriend" was real.
Bear, I basically agree with you about big time college athletics and Te'o. But, surely, you can see that criminal acts (like rape) must be investigated by law enforcement. The Te'o case doesn't appear to involve any crime - certainly no one is claiming to be the victim of a criminal act. Thus, it's a PR problem. One that centrally involves Notre Dame. Of course, they're going to investigate that.
Athletes, especially in D-1 football and men's basketball are a hybrid between employee and student. Their jerseys are sold, they make appearances representing the school. When one of them is in trouble with a non-criminal act, the university almost always involves itself in the situation. Now, whether these sports should be such big-time, professional programs (I don't think they should, either) doesn't matter in our universe: they are. There is a ton of money in involved and, so, no school is going to let a student go out and take care of this themselves.
If a student is accused of a crime, they would probably like to investigate on their own (and some, no doubt, do) but they risk more serious trouble and, so, those get referred to the authorities.
You keep stating things as if they are facts. I don't have a clue what your basis is. If it makes you feel better, the last article I looked up (which now I can't find) said the investigation was conducted jointly by the county and campus police.
EDIT: and the investigation included the sender of the text messages.
Attention whoring, escapism, general craziness.
Here's a personal example:
A while back a woman contacted me on Twitter. She was objectively gorgeous and apparently into all of the same weird a off beat things I was into. Naturally, I assumed she was a man/middle aged woman/homely nerdy girl hiding behind a gorgeous picture or two. Nevertheless, I frequently exchanged non-flirtatious messages with "her" because we DID have common interests and I enjoyed the conversation.
After a few weeks, she surprised me by asking if I had Skype, which I do. She asked if she could Skype me, and I agreed. Turns out...she really was drop-dead gorgeous. The pictures were not fake.
For quite a while after that initial Skype session we communicated daily by text, by phone calls, or by Skype. I kept my guard up, though, because she was on the other side of the country and I still didn't truly know her.
Needless to say, after a few months I found out she was married and had children. I was a fun, attentive, far-away man to provide spice to her otherwise dull and listless life. It was pure escapism for her.
Never have I been more appreciative of my skepticism.
It's unfair. He's dragging down Marques. Everyone knows Marques was the QB of the best season of Rick Neuheisel's career, and was a part of Bill Callahan's. He's played with Jerramy Stevens, Rob Johnson and Bill Romanowski, among others. Think about all the people now tainted by this.
He is besmirching the legendary name of Tuiasosopo! Crissakes, that family is practically football royalty.
I haven't read to closely - basically this thread is my source of info - but it sort of sounds like this guy has been doing this awhile and the Te'o case is simply one where he landed his first big hit. The mark both fell for the girl and didn't catch on. You need both: if the mark doesn't fall in love, it doesn't matter if he buys the act or not. And, obviously, if the guy doesn't buy the act, then the game is up anyway. Te'o may have both bought it and fallen for her and then become embarrassed by the online nature of the relationship. If he does figure out later that he's been duped, raise the embarrassment an order of magnitude.
Basically, Tuiasosopo sounds like a serial catfisher and Te'o sounds both gullible, not terribly bright and not strong enough to come clean as soon as it is apparent something is out of order. If this is a catfish, it's the 80 pound, 40 year old mythic beast that everyone has hooked but no one reeled in.
Those are almost always directed by the "real" cops. The campus cops are there to act as a go between.
How dare you not mention Manu. You are dead to me!
Of course -- as a law enforcement matter. There's nothing saying the athletic department or university can't take a parallel look to see if the players should still be on the team. That kind of thing happens all the time. Some schools have Student Disciplinary Councils and the like that look at such things.
When one of them is in trouble with a non-criminal act, the university almost always involves itself in the situation.
Only if it impacts on NCAA compliance issues. The university does not, and cannot, get involved with personal issues involving the athlete solely as civilian. What do you think all the hullaballoo about trying to get scholarships to involve pizza and walking around money are all about? If schools could pay an athlete's lawyers if the athlete got a, say, DWI, why would there be all the talk about getting pizza and walking around money to athletes?
I was trying to keep him out of it!
Bahahahaha! Nope, never met her. And actively tried to steer conversations to non-intimate topics, because I know what the internet is, and what it is not.
Back in the day, lonely housewives read romance novels. Now, they try to write their own online.
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