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Tuesday, November 06, 2012

OT: NFL/NHL thread

i estimate that absolutely noone gives a damn about the NHL, so by folding that thread into this one, we won’t distract from what this thread is really about: boner pills, blood doping (is it low t?), and…jesus christ did mike vick just throw another ####### interception?

steagles Posted: November 06, 2012 at 12:03 AM | 8367 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nfl, nhl

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   2701. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:05 PM (#4351478)
flip
   2702. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:06 PM (#4351479)
Pollard is the Patriot's bogeyman.
   2703. Howling John Shade Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:06 PM (#4351480)
oof. looked like he got knocked out on his feet there.
   2704. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:07 PM (#4351481)
He was down.
   2705. DA Baracus Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:07 PM (#4351482)
He was down and he is out.
   2706. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:08 PM (#4351484)
Should they have gone for two there?


Yes.

As a full-blown Brady hater, I can tell you an 8-point lead is insignificant for a team that is trying to stop him and this offense.


And you don't know what you're talking about. As someone who's watched most Patriots games since before Brady even became QB.

---

And Ridley... ugh. That's a scary injury. Reminds me of the college hit in the endzone a few years ago, where the body just goes rigid to protect from even more damage. Though it doesn't look like the ball came out until his ass was on the ground.
   2707. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:08 PM (#4351485)
Hits like that are why I feel a little guilty watching what little football I still do. Hope he's ok.
   2708. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:09 PM (#4351486)
He's down and that's a helmet to helmet hit, so what a screw job.
   2709. NTNgod Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:10 PM (#4351487)
After that hit/fumble, Simmons' column will write itself.
   2710. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:10 PM (#4351488)
I'm glad to see he's up and talking on the sideline. He really shouldn't be back in the game.
   2711. JJ1986 Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:10 PM (#4351489)
You're allowed to helmet to helmet a running back.
   2712. zack Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:10 PM (#4351490)
Maybe if they want to reduce concussions, they should overturn fumbles when the player is clearly unconscious as he fumbles it?
   2713. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:10 PM (#4351491)
After that hit/fumble, Simmons' column will write itself.

My thoughts exactly.
   2714. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:10 PM (#4351492)
They just cannot stop the Ravens.
   2715. booond Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:11 PM (#4351493)
How was Ridley not down?
   2716. DA Baracus Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:11 PM (#4351494)
You're allowed to helmet to helmet a running back.


Ridley lowered his head.
   2717. dave h Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:11 PM (#4351495)
Is it just me, or have the Ravens had several uncalled false starts?
   2718. puck Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:11 PM (#4351496)
He's down and that's a helmet to helmet hit, so what a screw job.

I thought that only applied to defenseless receivers?
   2719. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:11 PM (#4351497)
I texted this to my parents before the turnover, but I called this being 28-13. I underestimated. It's going to be 35-13.
   2720. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:12 PM (#4351498)
Seriously, for people who watch football, was that hit on Ridley legal?
   2721. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:12 PM (#4351499)
So, get ready for Harbaugh vs Harbaugh ad nauseam. Luckily I don't watch ESPN unless I have to anymore.
   2722. JJ1986 Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:12 PM (#4351500)
Is it just me, or have the Ravens had several uncalled false starts?


I believe that Yanda is signalling the center when to snap the ball with a tap or somesuch and it looks like he's moving.
   2723. Eddo Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:12 PM (#4351501)
Seriously, for people who watch football, was that hit on Ridley legal?

Yes, only passers and defenseless receivers are protected from helmet-to-helmet hits.

EDIT: Kickers and punters, too.
   2724. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:12 PM (#4351502)
I'm more annoyed by the punts from inside the 40 than anything else this game.
   2725. DA Baracus Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:12 PM (#4351503)
Seriously, for people who watch football, was that hit on Ridley legal?


Yes. Helmet to helmet only applies to defenseless receivers.
   2726. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:13 PM (#4351504)
Also, will someone explain why they would go for two to be up by 9?
   2727. Tony S Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:13 PM (#4351506)
Nice drive by the Ravens there, though they probably should have tried to burn a little more clock than they did.
   2728. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:13 PM (#4351507)
I thought it was legal because he lowered his head.
   2729. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:13 PM (#4351508)
Still don't see how Ridley isn't ruled down on that, though.
   2730. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:14 PM (#4351509)
Thanks for the answers.
   2731. dave h Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:14 PM (#4351510)
I believe that Yanda is signalling the center when to snap the ball with a tap or somesuch and it looks like he's moving.


If it looks like he's moving, isn't it because he's moving? The most egregious one was a few plays before the TD, on the right guard. He makes a sudden move, the Patriots point, but no call.
   2732. cmd600 Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:14 PM (#4351511)
Also, will someone explain why they would go for two to be up by 9


Being up two scores is worth the risk considering the offense you are going up against. If the Patriots have to go for two, they'll probably get it, meaning being up 7 or 8 is essentially meaningless. Obviously there's a non-zero chance they might not convert, but it's less than the chances of you converting your own two point play.
   2733. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:15 PM (#4351512)
The hit was legal, just an unfortunate part of the game. If I had a kid, I wouldn't let him play.
   2734. Srul Itza At Home Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:16 PM (#4351514)
Coming up, Harbaugh v. Harbaugh in the Har-bowl -- or is that Har-brawl?
   2735. puck Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM (#4351515)
#92 made a surprisingly speedy play on that screen.
   2736. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM (#4351516)
This game ain't over.
   2737. Tony S Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM (#4351517)
Is it against the rules to cover Welker?
   2738. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM (#4351518)

Being up two scores is worth the risk considering the offense you are going up against.


Has someone run the numbers on this? Seems like a really bad bet. If you're feeling like you're up against a good offense, why do you want to put your 2-pt conversion skills up against theirs?
   2739. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM (#4351519)
Darren: That hit is exactly why I quoted two people on the last page talking about the hit on a WR. The NFL does a terrible, inconsistent job on dangerous hits to players. It makes me queasy about following the game. I agree with Shooty in 2733.

I also agree with Biff in 2729, I thought Ridley was down.
   2740. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:19 PM (#4351520)
Has someone run the numbers on this? Seems like a really bad bet. If you're feeling like you're up against a good offense, why do you want to put your 2-pt conversion skills up against theirs?


Because they won't go for the 2 pt conversion if they can tie with a PAT. Instead they'll just tie up the game.

eta: Making it a two score game is pretty huge.

#### YOU BRADY.
   2741. dave h Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:19 PM (#4351521)
Someone just needs to design a helmet that is better at protecting players than as a weapon.
   2742. NTNgod Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:20 PM (#4351523)
Pollard almost took out the cameraman, just for variety. Must have been a NE employee.
   2743. DA Baracus Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:20 PM (#4351524)
This might be the dumbest game Brady has played.
   2744. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:20 PM (#4351525)
OK, it is getting close to being over.
   2745. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:20 PM (#4351526)
Well, that's that, I think. When did Tom Brady become so immobile?
   2746. AuntBea Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:20 PM (#4351527)
Brady is a ####### #####
   2747. Tony S Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:21 PM (#4351528)

Huge stop
   2748. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:21 PM (#4351529)
What is he thinking there?
   2749. JJ1986 Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:22 PM (#4351530)
Should have gone right back to Welker in the flat again.
   2750. dave h Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:22 PM (#4351531)
Brady has always been immobile.

Story of the game: Talib's injury really affected the defense, and on offense they've dropped a few balls and not made many big plays. If you're moving the ball 10 yards at a time you can't make many mistakes.
   2751. Tony S Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:24 PM (#4351532)

Ravens making some really dumb decisions on offense.
   2752. JJ1986 Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:25 PM (#4351533)
Do not like the playcalling by Baltimore.
   2753. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:25 PM (#4351534)

Because they won't go for the 2 pt conversion if they can tie with a PAT. Instead they'll just tie up the game.

Ah, I see now. But still, you go for two, which is 50/50. But if you don't get it, you up their chances of tying from 55/45 to 100. It's a very close call, right?
   2754. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:26 PM (#4351535)
Don't the Ravens have that Rice guy? Do they think that he's more valuable if you just use him for TEH FEAR?
   2755. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:26 PM (#4351536)
This might be the dumbest game Brady has played.


Brady has always been dumb in the playoffs. It's no shock that his greatest success in the postseason was when he was on a very short leash. People talk about Peyton's problems in playoff games, but man. Brady tops him by a half.

And here's how toast Brady is: I asked a fairly smart St. Louis fan if he'd trade Bradford and a first rounder for Brady. Flat turned down.
   2756. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:27 PM (#4351537)
I might have run the ball once during that series but they have gotten in this position by passing the ball. I won't hate on them for going for it there.
   2757. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:28 PM (#4351538)
Welker is hurt, right?
   2758. AuntBea Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:28 PM (#4351539)
Not sure about the rest of the logic, but this is so obviously wrong it should be pointed out:

If the Patriots have to go for two, they'll probably get it, meaning being up 7 or 8 is essentially meaningless.
   2759. JJ1986 Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:28 PM (#4351540)
And that's it.
   2760. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:28 PM (#4351541)
D'oh!
   2761. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:28 PM (#4351542)
It's never, ever, ever easy against Brady.
   2762. Tony S Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:29 PM (#4351543)
And the Ravens get another chance to drain some time off the clock.

Well, maybe. I hate the way every pivotal play in the NFL has to be ratified.
   2763. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:29 PM (#4351544)
Is Talib that big of a player?
   2764. DA Baracus Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:29 PM (#4351545)
Brady has always been dumb in the playoffs.


Calm down.

And here's how toast Brady is: I asked a fairly smart St. Louis fan if he'd trade Bradford and a first rounder for Brady. Flat turned down.


This is meaningless.
   2765. Srul Itza At Home Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:29 PM (#4351546)
Game. Bring on the Har-brawl.
   2766. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:30 PM (#4351547)
I was obviously a play behind you guys.
   2767. DA Baracus Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:30 PM (#4351548)
Is Talib that big of a player?


No. He is pretty overrated. But the Pats CBs aren't that good so he qualifies as their best.
   2768. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:30 PM (#4351549)
it's so over.

Ah, I see now. But still, you go for two, which is 50/50. But if you don't get it, you up their chances of tying from 55/45 to 100. It's a very close call, right?


No, it really isn't. They still have to score a touchdown if you fail. If you succeed, they need two possessions, one of which is a touchdown.
   2769. puck Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:31 PM (#4351550)
No. He is pretty overrated. But the Pats CBs aren't that good so he qualifies as their best.

Also, he didn't hold the Pats' offense down.
   2770. Howling John Shade Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:32 PM (#4351551)
Ah, I see now. But still, you go for two, which is 50/50. But if you don't get it, you up their chances of tying from 55/45 to 100. It's a very close call, right?


Yeah, I think this is the argument. If you think your defense has a much better shot at stopping their 2-point conversion than your offense has of scoring a 2 point conversion then you kick the PAT. Being up by 8 and stopping the patriots conversion would also effectively make it a two score lead.
   2771. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:32 PM (#4351552)
Is Talib that big of a player?

I might be putting my foot in my mouth but at what point does Belicheck start getting criticized for not being able to build an averagish defense?

Talib is a nice player but not a guy a team should absolutely need.

I think there was a time when Belicheck was a "genius". At this point, I think he's winning a lot of games because they have a great offense which is easy when you have a great QB.

To be fair, they don't have Gronk.
   2772. AuntBea Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:32 PM (#4351553)
Both Harbaughs are great coaches. Someone explain to me why this is wrong... I want to hear the counter argument. Seriously. All I hear is the good stuff.
   2773. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:32 PM (#4351554)
It's never, ever, ever easy against Brady.


Hah! Tell that to the Ravens.
   2774. DA Baracus Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:34 PM (#4351555)
I might be putting my foot in my mouth but at what point does Belicheck start getting criticized for not being able to build an averagish defense?


It's been that way for a few years. Belichick the lousy GM is handcuffing Belichick the great coach. Coach as GM doesn't work.
   2775. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:35 PM (#4351556)
I might be putting my foot in my mouth but at what point does Belicheck start getting criticized for not being able to build an averagish defense?


He built a really good one in the first half of his Patriot run, but yeah. If Nick Saban were available I'd say fire him. He's a very good coach, but his game plans for playoff games are regularly unimpressive.

Talib is a very good, but not great CB. The Patriots have no ####### secondary depth, nor much talent on secondary. He was a huge upgrade, and a huge loss.
   2776. JJ1986 Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:35 PM (#4351557)
I think the Patriots drafted well in 2012. Jones, Hightower and especially Dennard helped the defense.
   2777. AuntBea Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:35 PM (#4351558)
Superbowl odds. 49ers by 7?
   2778. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:36 PM (#4351560)
Sam H, you still out there? Wanna go stab some people in the neck?
   2779. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:36 PM (#4351561)
   2780. NTNgod Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:37 PM (#4351562)
At least now the Falcons shouldn't feel so bad about not scoring in the second half...
   2781. booond Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:39 PM (#4351563)
Patriots put little pressure on Flacco. That exposed their secondary and when Talib went down it was exposed further.
   2782. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:39 PM (#4351564)
No, it really isn't. They still have to score a touchdown if you fail. If you succeed, they need two possessions, one of which is a touchdown.


Them scoring a TD is a given here, though. If they don't score a TD, it doesn't matter what you do. So the comparison has to be:

You go for it:
50 percent you get it--a TD and you're still ahead.
50 percent you don't get it and you're up 7. A TD means a tie.

vs.

You don't go for it:
They score a TD and 55 percent of the time they tie you.
They score a TD and 45 percent of the time you have the lead.

That's only a 5 percent difference, isn't it?
   2783. puck Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:42 PM (#4351565)
At least now the Falcons shouldn't feel so bad about not scoring in the second half...
It should make the Broncos feel better but it will probably make them feel worse (since the Patriots looked so beatable).
   2784. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:42 PM (#4351566)
The success that White and Jones had against the Niners defense makes me think that the Niners will have a tough time against the Ravens with Boldin and Jones.
   2785. DA Baracus Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:43 PM (#4351567)
I think the Patriots drafted well in 2012. Jones, Hightower and especially Dennard helped the defense.


This year they had a good draft and added some nice pieces. But their poor drafting on defense in previous years has hurt them. No defenders left from 2009, 2011 was fruitless. Last year's defense had 3.5 good players, with 1.5 of them being Wilfork.
   2786. Quaker Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:44 PM (#4351568)
This was mean.
   2787. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:46 PM (#4351569)
Although I think the Ridley fumble call was crap, the Ravens were certainly the better team today.
   2788. Darren Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:47 PM (#4351570)
Doesn't Belicheck get credit for the great offense too? Come on, Brady's excellent, but he became excellent under Belicheck, Belichick was 11-5 after losing Brady and going with his backup, and there are other excellent QBs who haven't had the kind of success that the Pats have had.
   2789. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:49 PM (#4351571)
Let's go Niners! Go black QBs!
   2790. JJ1986 Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:49 PM (#4351572)
49ers open at -5.
   2791. NTNgod Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:49 PM (#4351573)
Wasn't his rep orginally as a defensive whiz, way back when? Am I misremembering?
   2792. Tony S Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:50 PM (#4351574)

So is Joe Flacco the Jack Morris of the NFL?
   2793. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:50 PM (#4351575)
I didn't make myself clear. I think there was a time that he was a genius. Right now, I think he is a coach that has an all-time great QB in an environment where that is the single most important thing to have. I still think he's a pretty good coach, not a great one.

Jim Caldwell was able to win a ton of games with Peyton Manning and he was largely considered a dolt. Unfairly, I say.



   2794. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:51 PM (#4351576)
Doesn't Belicheck get credit for the great offense too?


Yes, and to be clear all my grumbling tonight is an overreaction. But there's a real question about what happens when Brady is toast, because while the rest of the Patriots team is pretty good, Belichick has shown himself to rely upon oft injured players without whom his team is far worse off.
   2795. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:52 PM (#4351578)
Wasn't his rep orginally as a defensive whiz, way back when? Am I misremembering?

Nope, not misremembering, that's entirely correct.
   2796. DA Baracus Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:53 PM (#4351579)
Doesn't Belicheck get credit for the great offense too?


Of course, but we are talking about the defense.
   2797. JJ1986 Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:58 PM (#4351580)
So is Joe Flacco the Jack Morris of the NFL?


Yes.
   2798. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:58 PM (#4351581)
So is Joe Flacco the Jack Morris of the NFL?

Just keep on with that sort of #### and feast your eyes on the ####### scoreboard. At some point you all are going to have to admit that the Ravens are just a better ####### team than the Patriots and that Flacco is just a ####### winner.

Looking forward to that AAFC reunion matchup in the Super Bowl. Maybe the Patriots and the Falcons can have a Pythagorean Bowl or something in someone's mother's basement.
   2799. DA Baracus Posted: January 20, 2013 at 11:01 PM (#4351582)
Just keep on with that sort of #### and feast your eyes on the ####### scoreboard. At some point you all are going to have to admit that the Ravens are just a better ####### team than the Patriots and that Flacco is just a ####### winner.


17th in DVOA and DYAR, his lowest since his rookie year. Never top 10 in any of them. He's a good average QB.
   2800. JJ1986 Posted: January 20, 2013 at 11:01 PM (#4351583)
Maybe the Patriots and the Falcons can have a Pythagorean Bowl or something in someone's mother's basement.


The Falcons are not really a statistical darling.
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