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It's not second guessing. It just looks really silly to do the above and then basically run out of time two minutes later.
I suppose I can forgive the timeout before the 3rd down play - but not really, because you really need to save your timeouts just in case. You should be ready to roll with these goal line plays.
yes. lewis had about a half dozen tackles
If it's first-and-goal from the five, how do you not give it to him at least ONCE during the next four plays?
John Harbaugh should have stopped the clock. Jim had little reason to. Jim needed to score and if possible use as much time up as they could. John needed as much time as he could get if he got scored on.
Anyway, great game, even if the government tried to throw it to the Niners by conspiring to shut off the power.
Yeah, your best chance of winning the game there (by far) is to score and not leave Baltimore time to kick a field goal. Calling a timeout to preserve time would have been a bad move.
You must have missed the full out tackle on the 49er trying to get to the punter...
How silly was it for the announcers to keep talking about momentum, particularly as related to the power outage? And after the game too with Sharpe and Esiason.
Gang, if you get three or four momentum swings during the game, as Sharpe said, then it ain't momentum and there is no such thing.
Which, even though I was annoyed with it, was a really good play. They should have held every Niner they could, by the facemask if necessary. If it would have helped they could have lined up offsides and put guys in motion illegally too.
Well, there was some insane holding on that play.
Offensive penalty to get the 10 second runoff! Surprised this didn't happen, actually.
Eh. Theys are touchin' each other in the end zone. But I figure it's one for Sam. They aren't going to call that. I would have like to see a play where Kaepernick has a better scramble option.
Game was basically: Ravens receivers catch everything, Niners recievers don't.
And we see it on the hail mary plays at the end of games.
Memo to Phil Simms: Just because the refs don't call this stuff doesn't mean it's not a joke.
No time.
But thankfully we're done with Ray Lewis, for all practical purposes. What a clown that guy is, with absolutely nothing interesting to say about anything.
Not very considering that the 49ers played significantly better after it and the Ravens played worse. I think terms like "momentum" are overrated but it's hard to it didn't have some kind of effect.
Offensive penalty to get the 10 second runoff! Surprised this didn't happen, actually.
What's the rule on that, though? I know the game can't end on a penalty in a situation like that, but would they allow any time at all to run off the clock? I'm not 100% sure, but I think that they'd just have penalized the Ravens half the distance to the goal line and then reset the clock back to whatever it was before, either 10 or 12 seconds.
Why? What would cause the effect?
Not really. The Ravens made two key drops in the second half that killed their drives. Both passes were right on the money, too.
But that was the point, wasn't it?
They didn't want to score TOO quickly, and they still had two time outs.
If you can't run off 3-4 running plays in 2 minutes with 2 time outs...
Everyone was taken out of their rhythm by the game suddenly stopping for a bizarre reason. Routine was broken, and people respond differently to that.
I do think we need to figure out if we want the game to be called differently with two minutes left. Let them play? Or call it by the book? Right now, 'let them play' is certainly winning out, for better or worse.
This is simply an unprovable after-the-fact assertion, which is useless.
You'd have done better if you'd said that the break gave the 49ers defenders a chance to rest, or something. That would be a tangible cause. Though it would still not be momentum.
Which also can't be proven. You asked why people were talking about momentum and the power outage. They were talking about it because it was the point where the 49ers started playing better. You can draw your own conclusions why.
Geez, was Crissy Snow not available for post game quotes?
oh, and also, that because of halftime and the kick return TD and the blackout, the baltimore offense went damn near an hour and a half without running a play, and it took them a while to get back into the flow of the game.
It sure helped put them in a quick hole, but the truth is that both teams made enough bad plays and got enough breaks that it's impossible to play the "what if" game without recognizing that it cuts both ways. If the Niners had pulled it out, the Ravens could've lamented Rice's fumble, those two key dropped passes, a couple of (well deserved) critical penalties, the failure to convert twice within the red zone, and a badly shanked punt. Those plays are no less real because they didn't flip the final result. It was a terrific game in terms of drama and excitement, but neither team was nearly at its best.
Agreed. The delay of game, if they weren't going to hand it off, wouldn't have necessarily hurt them much. The field was extremely compressed with the ball inside the 5, the penalty would have opened the field up for passing.
Ray, when you win, you can say any ####### thing you want. There isn't a sports team on Earth without a roster full of Christian psychobabblers who can drive any sane person crazy if they're insane enough to listen to him. There's a very good reason to wait till the opening kickoff to turn on the sound, and to turn off the TV once the final gun has sounded, and to hit the pause button during commercials when you're recording the game.
I don't know about this, but the penalty for holding in the end zone is a safety. So Darren is right - the Ravens should have done *everything* in their power to keep the defense away from the punter for as long as possible.
I don't think so. Once the Niners failed to score, they would have loved to have it back. But it's still just the difference between 45 seconds left and no TO and four seconds left and no TO. Neither are very promising situations. Inside the 10 was their best chance. I wouldn't squander it to save a TO (though ordinarily, I agree with the idea of not trading a TO to save five yards).
And I thought the non-call was fine. He initiated contact within 5 yards, and contact was maintained for the next two. Had he initiated contact later, or re-engaged, it would be flag-worthy. But continuous contact is generally, though not always, allowed.
Ray Lewis does have two Super Bowl rings...
Yes, yes, yes. All three timeouts should be saved for the end of the game, almost without exception. I suppose I could see a need to take one on a big third down play - as Jim H did tonight - but that in itself indicates a breakdown in coaching to me.
True, but there's nothing that compels anyone to listen to any of them, and he's hardly the only jock with a criminal past who does the Jesus bit. Avoiding their babble completely is one of the things that makes sporting events infinitely more enjoyable.
Of course masochists might beg to differ, but that's another story.
And he's the only player to have played in the only Super Bowls that the Giants and 49ers have lost. Not even the great Trent Dilfer can say that.
Some Jim Gray type should just stop these guys and be like, wtf are you talking about, this makes no sense.
I was the guy here who ####### about the Falcons timeout early in the 3rd quarter of the NFC title game, how it might come back to bite them - and it did.
So what did the 49ers learn from that? Nothing - they had their own preposterous, 5-yard-penalty-avoiding 3rd quarter timeout tonight.
The second timeout, near the end, with a shot to score the go-ahead TD - reasonable people can differ, although obviously they then lost a slim chance on a last possession without that extra timeout. But there's little point in debating a plausible choice when an absurd one is there for the criticizing.
NEVER call a 3rd-quarter timeout to avoid a 5-yard penalty when you are outside of 5 or so yards from scoring a TD. We can debate calling it on certain down/yardage spots in that area as well, but we keep seeing QBs/coaches not willing to accept spots like going from 3rd and 6 at the 40 to 3rd and 11 at the 45, which is absurd.
Of course not, they won that game. There was no impetus for the 49ers to change.
Not saying this to be snarky in any way. But enough coaches are hired that know less about clock management than a 13 year old with a madden game that it clearly is not a priority
The Bears drive me nuts with this all the time. Recently the Bears have had problems getting the call in on time and it has forced Cutler to burn a timeout or two to avoid the delay and it drives me nuts when they do it. You really need to call a timeout on 2nd and 10 at your 27 in the second quarter? Why?
1) I think that was a defensive holding against Crabtree on 4th down. It's hard for me to complain because Bowman might have held on the last play against the Falcons.
2) I can't believe the Niners didn't run the ball on one of those first two plays with first and goal. I give that ball to Frank Gore at least once during that series. You have a hard runner and a big offensive line. That's the biggest thing I will think about for the rest of the offseason.
3) I find it surprising that Ray is using tonight's game as evidence against the idea of momentum in sports because I thought the exact opposite.
4) I am pretty happy with the way Kaepernick played in the game. I generally felt that the Niners were able to move the ball pretty well. I wish he would have run the ball a little more but that's nitpicking.
5) I think the Niners are in good shape for the next season. They need a true number two receiver to be a great offense. They basically redshirted AJ Jenkins this year and it'll be interesting to see if they believe in him as much as they say they do. I think they need a true shutdown corner to be a great defense so they'll obviously be interested in Revis. They need to address the kicking game.
But I specifically recall a MNF game where they did this, and Michaels said "And the Rams have been doing this for years..."
Some thoughts as a Ravens fan:
1. I thought that this was going to be a tight game all the way, since the Ravens were (finally) at full strength and the Niners' weaknesses had been exposed by several teams during the year, most notably the Giants, Seahawks and Patriots (in the second half). OTOH Kaepernick was an X-factor, since the Ravens hadn't faced any QB other than Griffin with his combination of arm strength and mobility skills, and Kaepernick is bigger, stronger and healthier than Griffin.
2. If people haven't figured out by now that Flacco is a lot more than an "average" quarterback, they probably never will. "Average" quarterbacks don't perform as consistently and as well as Flacco has done in the postseason. This wasn't the first time he's stepped up in an elimination game, and it's getting to be a pretty large "sample size", wouldn't you think?
3. I don't know whether I'd call it "momentum" or not, but the power outage gave the 49ers a chance to regroup. Maybe their turnaround was a pure coincidence, but color me skeptical about that.
4. Going forward, the 49ers look set for years, and if they played the Ravens next week or next year, I think they'd win. The Ravens's defense is old and slow, and the 49ers exploited that once they got settled. Whatever you think of Lewis as a man, he's going to leave an enormous hole to fill in his position.
5. I can't really root against the 49ers, but damn, I'm glad to see a total blue collar team from a blue collar city other than Pittsburgh win it all. The 2001 champs were dominant in a way that this team wasn't, but it was sure a lot more fun watching Flacco at work than it was crossing my fingers with Trent Dilfer.
Obligatory.
Harbaugh didn't call the timeout. He was pissed that it was called.
I assume this is about the TO on the final set of 49er downs - Harbaugh did call that one, I think.
It was a logical disconnect. The TO is a good one if you're approach is to run the ball from the 5. Running from the 5 and running from the 10 are very different.
However, if your plan is to pass 4 times, take the penalty. Hell, maybe take another 5 yarder. As stated several times above, not running once in that last set of downs is bewildering. Frank Gore four times straight up the middle probably has a better chance than what they did. Given that the 49ers seemed able to run at will after the blackout, they should simply have run 4 times. Yug.
And the third and fourth down plays weren't great calls. Rollouts near the goal line rarely work, and with a guy as fast as Colin, a dropback gives him a better opportunity to scramble. I haven't watched the 49ers a ton, but I haven't seen Kaepernick complete any of those fade throws--it sure doesn't seem like his strength.
here is the goal line play calling courtesy of espn.com
1st and 7 at BAL 7 (Shotgun) L.James right guard to BLT 5 for 2 yards (D.Ellerbe; D.Tyson).
2nd and 5 at BAL 5 (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete short right to M.Crabtree (C.Graham).
Timeout #2 by SF at 01:55.
3rd and 5 at BAL 5 C.Kaepernick pass incomplete short right to M.Crabtree (J.Smith).
4th and 5 at BAL 5 (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete short right to M.Crabtree.
i think it was reasonable for san fran coaches to expect the same on the 4th down. i know i called it before it happened and i am no svengali
it's the obvious defensive call if you are certain there is no run, you trust your blitzer to not lose contain and you are asking your corners to hold up for 2 seconds. that fit baltimore perfectly. they knew wiht 5 yards there was almost certainly no running play, they believe more in ed reed than anyone and their corners grabbed jerseys to give ed the time he needed.
Now, off my lawn!
I know this is conventional wisdom, but I'd really like to see the numbers on this. Is it really easier to score a throwing TD from the 10 than the 5 (it might be, but this gets said a lot but I've never seen anything definitive)?
Regardless, when you've got a QB who can turn a pass play into a run like SF does, I'd still rather be on the 5. Curious the Niners didn't call a play where that was a possibility.
he's annoying?
Great thoughts here from Andy, Harv, Russlan et al.
Wow, I wonder if they gave the 49ers coach a trophy for Biggest Loser.
Two weeks after his team wins in large part on a non-call on 4th down (which I had no problem with), he whines like a ##### about not getting the same call for HIS team (which I wouldn't have called, either).
talk about myopic. Didn't have any firm opinion on the 49ers before (noticed that this coach was a jackass, but it hadn't reached a critical mass), but now I think it's delicious that their coach is absorbing a second consecutive gut-wrencher end to a season. Looking forward now to seeing it happen again next year.
I take it no media member asked him to compare the two plays?
as Michigan fans know all-too-well, Harbaugh is a hell of a coach, but a total ####.
2011 (2 games) - overall QB rating 90.0
Opponents: at Kansas City (10-6); at Pittsburgh (12-4)
2012 (2 games) - overall QB rating 96.1
Opponents: vs. Houston (10-6); at New England (13-3)
2013 (4 games) - overall QB rating 117.2
Opponents: vs. Indianapolis (11-5); at Denver (13-3); at New England (12-4); vs San Francisco (11-4-1)
Total: 2 home games, 5 road games, and one neutral site. The Ravens were underdogs in 5 of those 8 games. I'd like to know how some of the more elite quarterbacks stack up against that record.
Andy, I would go to war with Flacco. I love how he (with the permission of Harbaugh) throws deep, and throws deep, and throws deep, and then throws deep again. He is constantly looking to take shots downfield, which I love. And he has the range on his arm, although his deep ball appears a bit balloon-y to me like a Marc Wilson in Super Tecmo Bowl. I don't think Flacco is a great quarterback, but he's better than average, yes. So I agree with you there. But...
...You're off base here. The idea that two evenly matched teams would go through stretches where one outscores the other is not at all surprising. It is not momentum. It is football. Sometimes the two teams don't score much; sometimes they alternate scores; sometimes one scores more than the other. What else would we expect to happen?
1st and 7 at BAL 7 (Shotgun) L.James right guard to BLT 5 for 2 yards (D.Ellerbe; D.Tyson).
2nd and 5 at BAL 5 (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete short right to M.Crabtree (C.Graham).
Timeout #2 by SF at 01:55.
3rd and 5 at BAL 5 C.Kaepernick pass incomplete short right to M.Crabtree (J.Smith).
4th and 5 at BAL 5 (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete short right to M.Crabtree.
Huh. I honestly don't remember the 1st down play.
I guess I don't keep my head in clutch situations.
The quirk I like about Warner's numbers: Every time he started all 16 games in a season, his team went to the Super Bowl.
They might make a move for Revis, too.
Where were the niners safeties in this game? Getting beat and not hitting.
...You're off base here. The idea that two evenly matched teams would go through stretches where one outscores the other is not at all surprising. It is not momentum. It is football. Sometimes the two teams don't score much; sometimes they alternate scores; sometimes one scores more than the other. What else would we expect to happen?
Looking at Sheehan's recap and then looking at the sequence that immediately followed, I'll back off on my skepticism. What happened after Sheehan left off was a miscommunication between Flacco and Boldin that would've been a first down, and then a completion to Rice that came up just short and forced a punt. After that, Kaepernick settled down and showed the same kind of stuff he'd shown in the two previous playoff games, aided by Rice's fumble that let the Niners get right back in the game. So yeah, I don't think that the power outage had much to do with anything, other than its being a slightly delayed coincidence. It certainly didn't cause Ray Rice to fumble.
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Really, on this site we're using passer rating and opponent's record in 8 games to validate the play of an individual? This is "pitch to the score" level of analysis.
Except that those "8 games" are about as un-random a selection as you can imagine, and what the hell does "pitching to the score" have to do with it?
I'm not trying to compare Flacco's regular season stats to more consistent QBs like Peyton Manning or Brady, but when over three years worth of postseason games he's outplayed every elite quarterback he's faced, to me that says a lot more about his performance than a pitcher "pitching to the score" in a bunch of 6 to 5 games.
That's Brady twice (and the defensive disparity between the two teams is huge) and Manning once. He got thoroughly outplayed by B-Ro (who was still elite then).
Some quibbles about the coverage, aside from the typical uselessness of these two.
Did they not have a good angle of the line of scrimmage on the two point conversion. They suggested that Reed was offside but only the down the line shot would have shown it. They have 62 cameras, I understand.
Don't they have a camera which would have shown if Akers missed field goal was good or not (the one on which running into the kicker was called)
Did it not occur to anyone that the 49ers could have then gone for fourth and two instead of retrying the field goal.
On the fight which resulted, as fights always do, in offsetting penalties; they not only missed the issue of the Raven player shoving the ref, they didn't replay the fight itself. I am fairly sure two Ravens were pounding someone on the ground and I do not think the intentional roughness was equal. But I couldn't tell for sure.
Because it's the same rudimentary way to analyse a player. Similar things were said about Mark Sanchez after "he beat" Manning and Brady.
I thought that was a terrible call (though understandable). He started to fall over the Raven defender before he was touched.
It occurred to me. But, then, I pretty much always want to go on 4th down :-)
Though it doesn't apply here because it was a FG attempt, I generally subscribe to Sheehan's other statement: "...but cowardly punting is the way the big, strong manly football of the NFL is played."
And that has informed his view here. He thinks the postseason is Magic. Arod is a Choker. Jeter is a Clutch Postseason Gift Basket God. Etc.
Bottom line is that while Flacco hasn't yet displayed the overall regular season consistency of an elite QB---the numbers don't lie---he's more than performed on that level in his last three postseasons, against the best teams the league has had to offer. He's led his team to one championship, and only a dropped pass in the final minute in 2012 stopped him from being able to compete for another one. I'm not sure why anyone would feel the need to nitpick that assessment, but then I'm not a mindreader.
And that has informed his view here. He thinks the postseason is Magic.
Ray, you just said yourself that you'd "go to war with Flacco." And since I'm not putting him in the class of Peyton or Brady in the regular season, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, unless it's that you'd go to war with a lucky QB.
As for the World Series, you can dwell on the luck factor if you'd like. I tend to value the results more than the excuses, win or lose.
Because it's the same rudimentary way to analyse a player. Similar things were said about Mark Sanchez after "he beat" Manning and Brady.
Again, what does "pitching to the score" in a 6-5 baseball game have to do with the level of QB ratings that Flacco's had in the past three postseasons? If the Ravens had won a bunch of 10 to 7 games to win the Super Bowl I wouldn't be talking about Flacco.
And yet the guy didn't throw a single INT during the entire postseason, with tons of long bombs, so what do I know? Flacco and Harbaugh quite obviously know something (lots of things, really) I don't.
Because the implication is the Flacco has some innate ability to perform better in the postseason. Anyone would grant that a. Flacco has the ability to have great games and b. his last six playoff games (I think including 2011 doesn't boost his case) have been great games. The difference is whether you think that's because it's the postseason or you think it's a combination of a hot streak and luck.
If the Denver safety hadn't been an idiot no one thinks Flacco's an elite playoff QB.
of course now the new buzz phrase in sports faux stats circles is 'the wyatt earp' effect.
as someone who earned his masters in stats many moons ago though glad that real stat work has taken hold seeing it discussed by folks with only a superficial understanding such as barnwell or neyer grates at times. they are just blabbing back something they heard and then slapping it on a situation to look informed.
thus concludes harvey's snobbish discourse of the day. but i wanted to get that off my chest
Because passer rating is a junk measurement too. Flacco has played well in the playoffs, I don't think anyone doubts this. But you are arguing as if you are saying that he is an elite QB and has some kind of ability to make himself elite in the post-season despite being thoroughly mediocre in the regular season for his entire career.
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