Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, November 06, 2012

OT: NFL/NHL thread

i estimate that absolutely noone gives a damn about the NHL, so by folding that thread into this one, we won’t distract from what this thread is really about: boner pills, blood doping (is it low t?), and…jesus christ did mike vick just throw another ####### interception?

STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: November 06, 2012 at 12:03 AM | 7938 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nfl, nhl

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 79 of 80 pages ‹ First  < 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 > 
   7801. SoSH U at work Posted: February 04, 2014 at 03:34 PM (#4651530)
By the time the Bills lost #4, people were definitely questioning the AFC.


I think so too (and with good reason). But that kind of thing is forgotten in the long run by the typical fan. What's left behind, ultimately, is the 0-4. The details, such as the Bills were probably the better team than NY (though not by as much as we thought at the time) in their first SB loss, or that they led at half in the last one, are generally lost to time in the crafting of these simple narratives.

Let's face it, it's a really dumb perspective to begin with. Reaching four straight Super Bowls was a tremendous feat. In no way should the Bills (or 70s Vikes) be seen as losers because they were second-best (or in the vicinity) four times in a short time frame.

   7802. Kurt Posted: February 04, 2014 at 03:49 PM (#4651542)
Let's face it, it's a really dumb perspective to begin with. Reaching four straight Super Bowls was a tremendous feat. In no way should the Bills (or 70s Vikes) be seen as losers because they were second-best (or in the vicinity) four times in a short time frame.


Definitely agree with this. Those Bills were a great team.

But - and this is where I agree with Andy - part of the perspective on the Bills came from the blowout losses. If they had lost three heartbreakers they would have been America's Team by #4; people would have been rooting like crazy for them (especially against the Cowboys). As it stood the overwhelming sentiment was ugh, not the Bills again.
   7803. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 04, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4651552)
By then it was just the assumption that the NFC team would blow out the AFC team.

including the Pack over the Broncos following the 97 season (oops)
   7804. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 04, 2014 at 04:13 PM (#4651565)
No I think Brees is a great answer, although he was seen as just average when SD let him go.

Mike Vick might be another one, but there were unique circumstances there.

I think the answers are "Brees, Vick and Peyton." Which comes down to "INJURY RISK, IN PRISON, INJURY RISK."


Late on this, and things have not exactly worked out for the best for everyone, but the Bears getting Cutler when they did was a bit of a rarity.
   7805. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 04, 2014 at 04:29 PM (#4651572)
Cutler's not what was being asked about though. Nobody has ever dreamed Cutler was on his way to the Hall of Fame. But it underlines the point: even a reasonably good quarterback is almost never available anywhere but the draft.
   7806. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: February 04, 2014 at 04:32 PM (#4651573)
Andy's original claim was that the Niners won't be viewed the same as the Bills and Vikings because a) they played in a better conference, b) they lost close games to the eventual champions.

My claim is pretty straightforward:

---The 70's Vikings, the 80's Broncos and the 90's Bills were seen as big fish in a minnow pond. In nearly all of those years, they wouldn't even have won their corresponding division if they'd switched conferences, let alone the conference championship. You can dismiss the point, but they were the butt of a considerable number of jokes that lined up with this narrative, most famously the time the Broncos were lampooned on The Simpsons. (With bad timing, since they then went on to win the Super Bowl for the first time later that year.)

---------------------------------------

By the time the Bills lost #4, people were definitely questioning the AFC.

Given how at that point the AFC had lost 10 straight SB's by an average score of 38 to 16, I'd say that's a reasonable assumption. (smile)

---------------------------------------

Let's face it, it's a really dumb perspective to begin with. Reaching four straight Super Bowls was a tremendous feat. In no way should the Bills (or 70s Vikes) be seen as losers because they were second-best (or in the vicinity) four times in a short time frame.


Definitely agree with this. Those Bills were a great team.

I'm sorry, but "great"** teams don't lose three straight blowout Super Bowls. They were a great team only within the context of an inferior conference. I'm not sure why this issue of conference strength seems to be such a sensitive point when it's right there in the the numbers.

**I will concede that winning four straight conference championships is one hell of an impressive feat, maybe even a great one. But great feats on a secondary level don't necessary equate with great teams. If you want to talk about great teams, I'd be beginning with those Redskins and Cowboys teams that walloped the Bills in those last three SB's.
   7807. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 04, 2014 at 04:33 PM (#4651574)

Definitely agree with this. Those Bills were a great team.


And they were heads and tails above everyone else in the AFC during that time. Here are the scores of the AFC Championship games they won:

Buffalo 52 Los Angeles 3
Buffalo 10 Denver 7
Buffalo 29 Miami 10
Buffalo 30 Kansas City 13

They were 49-15 over those four seasons. Yea, the AFC was a very weak conference back then, but they dominated the conference as they should have.
   7808. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: February 04, 2014 at 04:40 PM (#4651580)
They were 49-15 over those four seasons. Yea, the AFC was a very weak conference back then, but they dominated the conference as they should have.

Which is why you should say that they accomplished a great feat, without trying to stretch it into saying that they were a great team. The truly great teams in those years were all in the NFC.
   7809. Kurt Posted: February 04, 2014 at 04:41 PM (#4651581)
**I will concede that winning four straight conference championships is one hell of an impressive feat, maybe even a great one. But great feats on a secondary level don't necessary equate with great teams. If you want to talk about great teams, I'd be beginning with those Redskins and Cowboys teams that walloped the Bills in those last three SB's.


The Cowboys were one of the five best teams of all time, maybe #1. I'm not getting sucked into a semantic argument about greatness, but the Bills were vastly better than, say, the 94 Chargers or the 86-89 Broncos.
   7810. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 04, 2014 at 04:45 PM (#4651585)

Which is why you should say that they accomplished a great feat, without trying to stretch it into saying that they were a great team. The truly great teams in those years were all in the NFC.


They were a great team. They weren't the greatest team.

FWIW, the Bills were 14-2 against the NFC over that stretch in the regular season. The only two losses were the last week of the year losses with scrubs playing.
   7811. Kurt Posted: February 04, 2014 at 04:48 PM (#4651589)
Which is why you should say that they accomplished a great feat, without trying to stretch it into saying that they were a great team. The truly great teams in those years were all in the NFC.


SoSH was right, you're overboard on this.

In those four years, the Bills played 16 regular season games against NFC opponents and won 14 of them, including two against the teams they eventually lost to in the SB.

You have it exactly backward. The 1990 Giants were a very, very good team that accomplished a great feat (beating the Bills). The 90-93 Bills were a great team. I have no idea why you'd measure greatness over 4 games rather than 76.

   7812. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 04, 2014 at 04:54 PM (#4651592)
Here are the DVOA rankings for the 90s Bills:

1990: #6
1991: #4
1992: #7
1993: #12
   7813. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 04, 2014 at 05:07 PM (#4651604)
Cutler's not what was being asked about though. Nobody has ever dreamed Cutler was on his way to the Hall of Fame. But it underlines the point: even a reasonably good quarterback is almost never available anywhere but the draft.

Fair enough, but then Vick doesn't fit either. Cutler then, was almost rarer, since he was still so early in his career and there weren't really any extenuating circumstances that forced the Broncos to move him. Perhaps they get some credit for getting out before he was overpaid, but considering they replaced him with Orton and Tebow, they lose that credit and much, much more.
   7814. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 04, 2014 at 05:12 PM (#4651609)
But consider: If they'd kept Cutler, they would still have Cutler today. Instead they have Peyton Manning and just won the AFC Championship. Is it likely they'd have achieved the success of the past two years at any point had they hung onto Cutler?

This seems to me like an apt illustration of why overpaying a non-Hall-of-Fame quarterback is a very bad investment.

That's not why Denver traded him, though. Denver traded him because Josh McDaniels couldn't stand him and/or was convinced a genius of his stature could win with any quarterback.
   7815. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: February 04, 2014 at 05:12 PM (#4651610)
The Cowboys were one of the five best teams of all time, maybe #1. I'm not getting sucked into a semantic argument about greatness, but the Bills were vastly better than, say, the 94 Chargers or the 86-89 Broncos.

No argument there. But don't forget the 91 Redskins on your list of all-time greatest teams.

----------------------------------------

Here are the DVOA rankings for the 90s Bills:

1990: #6
1991: #4
1992: #7
1993: #12


And no argument with that.

----------------------------------------

In those four years, the Bills played 16 regular season games against NFC opponents and won 14 of them, including two against the teams they eventually lost to in the SB.

You have it exactly backward. The 1990 Giants were a very, very good team that accomplished a great feat (beating the Bills).


That part I'll agree with. Neither the Giants nor the Bills were particularly great that year.

The 90-93 Bills were a great team. I have no idea why you'd measure greatness over 4 games rather than 76.

Because those were the four most important games they played over that period, and they were blown out in three of them. You don't have to win a Super Bowl to be a great team (see the 2007 Patriots), but you can't be massacred three straight years and still try to stake such a claim. Way too much grade inflation going on there.
   7816. Joey B. is being stalked by a (Gonfa) loon Posted: February 04, 2014 at 05:23 PM (#4651619)
The Houston Oilers absolutely should have crushed Buffalo that one year though.

The two most epic choke jobs I've ever seen in my life were Maryland blowing that huge lead to Duke in the last minute, and the Oilers blowing that huge lead to career backup Frank Reich of all people.
   7817. Yardape Posted: February 04, 2014 at 05:28 PM (#4651626)
Because those were the four most important games they played over that period, and they were blown out in three of them.


What's a blowout? Could you respond to the comment above that the Bills were leading Super Bowl #4 at halftime?
   7818. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 04, 2014 at 06:17 PM (#4651677)
They play 60 minutes of football, not 30. The Bills lost by 17 points and were utterly dominated in the second half. It might not quite qualify as a "blowout", but after a lethargic first half the Cowboys delivered a thorough asskicking.
   7819. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 04, 2014 at 06:24 PM (#4651682)
But consider: If they'd kept Cutler, they would still have Cutler today. Instead they have Peyton Manning and just won the AFC Championship. Is it likely they'd have achieved the success of the past two years at any point had they hung onto Cutler?

This seems to me like an apt illustration of why overpaying a non-Hall-of-Fame quarterback is a very bad investment.

That's not why Denver traded him, though. Denver traded him because Josh McDaniels couldn't stand him and/or was convinced a genius of his stature could win with any quarterback.


We're not disagreeing, and it's not insignificant that it is a different front office/coaching staff, but they still were lucky that it worked out the way it did.
   7820. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 04, 2014 at 06:31 PM (#4651687)
One famous (at the time) QB was Jurgensen for Norm Snead before the 64 season. It's certainly unusual to trade 2 starting QB'a for each other (although the Skins also threw in the immortal Claude Crabb). Jurgensen had been an all-pro and had set the record for most passing TD's in a season. (soon broken by Tittle).

Those 60's Jurgensen Redskins weren't very good, but damn, they were fun to watch.
   7821. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 04, 2014 at 06:34 PM (#4651690)
I'm going over videos of the Bills' Super Bowls on Youtube and man I had forgotten just how much Thurman Thomas killed them.
   7822. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: February 04, 2014 at 06:40 PM (#4651693)
What's a blowout? Could you respond to the comment above that the Bills were leading Super Bowl #4 at halftime?

I'll just second #7818. Having a halftime lead isn't much consolation when you get outscored 24 to 0 in the final 30 minutes.

----------------------------------------------------

The two most epic choke jobs I've ever seen in my life were Maryland blowing that huge lead to Duke in the last minute, and the Oilers blowing that huge lead to career backup Frank Reich of all people.

But if you're a Maryland fan, then surely you've also got to remember what Frank Reich did to Miami in 1984 after the Hurricanes had taken a 31 to 0 halftime lead. At the time that was the biggest comeback in Division 1 football history.

And BTW after Reich led that Buffalo comeback against Houston, he also led them to a 23-7 win over the Steelers the next week, but then had to watch from the bench as Jim Kelly led them to a 17-52 loss in the Super Bowl. Reich is the only QB in history to retire undefeated in postseason play with more than one start to his credit.
   7823. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: February 04, 2014 at 06:45 PM (#4651699)
Those 60's Jurgensen Redskins weren't very good, but damn, they were fun to watch.

They were fun to watch from the day that Bobby Mitchell first integrated the team in 1962. After going 2-21-3 in the previous two years as the last all-white franchise in the big three professional sports, they began 1962 by going unbeaten for the first six weeks before the defense collapsed, as it always would until George Allen came to the rescue.
   7824. billyshears Posted: February 04, 2014 at 06:51 PM (#4651703)
This seems to me like an apt illustration of why overpaying a non-Hall-of-Fame quarterback is a very bad investment.


Maybe, but I'm not sure that teams that are playoff contenders (like the Cutler Bears, Manning Giants or Flacco Ravens) should really take a step back. If Andrew Luck is right there in front of you, or you have a young QB that has been groomed, great. But the difference between the expected value of E. Manning, Flacco or Cutler and the ordinarily available replacement QB options is generally enough to take a team out of playoff contention for a few years and eliminate the puncher's chance of a SB title.

I get that an average or so QB on an expensive contract makes it hard to construct a championship caliber roster. I think that for most teams that find themselves in the position of making this choice though, it is an easier path to contention to keep the QB and figure out the cap than preserving a sound cap situation but needing to find the QB. Talent isn't especially liquid in the NFL and teams can't always deploy available resources to fit their needs efficiently. Obviously, the particulars of any given roster matter, but deciding to find a new QB often means rebuilding. Also, because NFL contracts are non-guaranteed, teams don't pay for bad contracts forever. As a fan, I'd rather a pretty good team play out the string until it becomes obvious they can't win, then clean out their cap situation all at once while bottoming out for a couple years.
   7825. zack Posted: February 04, 2014 at 06:58 PM (#4651711)
Let me just say that I'm from upstate new york and I was in 8 in 1990. You all are killing me.

I'm going over videos of the Bills' Super Bowls on Youtube and man I had forgotten just how much Thurman Thomas killed them.

Didn't he spend an entire quarter of the 2nd Cowboy's game sitting on the bench because he lost his helmet?

The two most epic choke jobs I've ever seen in my life were Maryland blowing that huge lead to Duke in the last minute, and the Oilers blowing that huge lead to career backup Frank Reich of all people.

At the time he retired, Reich held both the NCAA and NFL records for biggest comebacks.

At least no one can take Don Beebe away from me.

Oww, my soul. Shameful how Norwood was treated though. I think I tore up his card.
   7826. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 04, 2014 at 07:12 PM (#4651720)
Are we really certain Reich wasn't good enough to be at least a mediocre starter?
   7827. Yardape Posted: February 04, 2014 at 08:48 PM (#4651766)
It might not quite qualify as a "blowout", but after a lethargic first half the Cowboys delivered a thorough asskicking.


It was a one-score game with 10 minutes to go. (Yes, yes, they play football for 60 minutes, not 50). I agree that the Cowboys were clearly better and won comfortably, but calling this a blowout is a huge stretch.
   7828. puck Posted: February 04, 2014 at 08:54 PM (#4651767)
Didn't he spend an entire quarter of the 2nd Cowboy's game sitting on the bench because he lost his helmet?


Looks like 2 plays.
   7829. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 04, 2014 at 09:25 PM (#4651780)
Just saw a lawyer commercial on the NBC Sports broadcast of the Capitals-Islanders game trolling for concussion victims from NCAA athletes. Litigation seems likely, I suppose, given the NFL settlement.
   7830. Doris from Rego Park Posted: February 05, 2014 at 09:19 AM (#4651898)
   7831. jmurph Posted: February 05, 2014 at 09:26 AM (#4651900)
Maybe, but I'm not sure that teams that are playoff contenders (like the Cutler Bears, Manning Giants or Flacco Ravens) should really take a step back. If Andrew Luck is right there in front of you, or you have a young QB that has been groomed, great. But the difference between the expected value of E. Manning, Flacco or Cutler and the ordinarily available replacement QB options is generally enough to take a team out of playoff contention for a few years and eliminate the puncher's chance of a SB title.


Football Outsiders has Flacco as providing the 40th most value (DYAR) among starting quarterbacks this past season. Manning was 42nd (35th and 38th, respectively, if you prefer value per play). Both were well below replacement level. Now I don't think either one is likely to be anywhere near that bad in the future, but I still wouldn't be too excited to pay them $18 or so million to figure it out.
   7832. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: February 05, 2014 at 11:21 AM (#4651964)
Obligatory Buffalo Bills Super Bowl Video

That clip was so reminiscent of Puddy the Face Painter's rant about "THE DEVILS!!! WE'RE THE DEVILS!!!!", I'd be surprised if Larry David didn't use it as an inspiration.
   7833. Doris from Rego Park Posted: February 05, 2014 at 12:39 PM (#4652020)
dalls is going down, gary. only buffalo is gonna win it.
   7834. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 07, 2014 at 11:28 AM (#4653150)
   7835. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: February 07, 2014 at 01:21 PM (#4653243)
The Houston Oilers absolutely should have crushed Buffalo that one year though.

The two most epic choke jobs I've ever seen in my life were Maryland blowing that huge lead to Duke in the last minute, and the Oilers blowing that huge lead to career backup Frank Reich of all people.


I remember watching that game (no replay reviews at that time) and the officials just killed the Oilers with a few bad calls in key moments. I wasn't a fan of either team and I can remember being pissed off watching that game. I can't remember specifics, however.
   7836. BDC Posted: February 08, 2014 at 02:52 PM (#4653675)
The Cowboys are working out a quarterback named Kafka. I hope he ends up playing a lot for them. If he can make the metamorphosis from practice squad to starter, it should yield some good headlines. But it will be a trial. At times in camp he'll feel like he's in a penal colony.
   7837. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: February 08, 2014 at 03:22 PM (#4653684)
I just hope he doesn't find any bugs in the Cowboys' offensive system.
   7838. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: February 08, 2014 at 06:15 PM (#4653712)
I remember watching that game (no replay reviews at that time) and the officials just killed the Oilers with a few bad calls in key moments. I wasn't a fan of either team and I can remember being pissed off watching that game. I can't remember specifics, however.

Same. Though the main thing I remember is Buffalo repeatedly holding / tangling up Houston players well away from the ball, and wondering why no flags were thrown.
   7839. Howie Menckel Posted: February 08, 2014 at 11:24 PM (#4653751)

Kafka played 4 games for the Eagles in 2011, but he had yet to fully emerge.
   7840. Srul Itza At Home Posted: February 09, 2014 at 10:14 PM (#4653994)
   7841. jobu Posted: February 09, 2014 at 10:44 PM (#4654003)
Missouri's Michael Sam says he's gay in advance of 2014 NFL Draft


Odd phrasing (kind of like he's "geeked for the draft"), but it's good to see an active athlete with a future come out. Lot of ugly comments at that link. I hope that I don't have to hear drunken NFL fans trying to be "funny" about Michael Sam this next season.
   7842. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 11:19 PM (#4654013)
It will be interesting to see where Sam falls in the draft. He was already thought of as kinda undersized for pass-rusher off the end, who got most of his sacks against inferior competition.

Execs are skeptical on Sam

If Sam is among that group of players, the potential distraction of his presence -- both in the media and the locker room -- could prevent him from being selected.
"That will break a tie against that player," the former general manager said. "Every time. Unless he's Superman. Why? Not that they're against gay people. It's more that some players are going to look at you upside down. Every Tom, Dick and Harry in the media is going to show up, from Good Housekeeping to the Today show. A general manager is going to ask, 'Why are we going to do that to ourselves?'


You take a player who is undersized, who skills may not translate to the next level, and add the media circus, and its bound to hurt his draft stock. I mean, Tim Tebow wasn't taken until late in the first round.
   7843. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 10, 2014 at 12:00 AM (#4654028)
I think it's likely Sam coming out dropped him from 5th rounder to undrafted.
   7844. Howie Menckel Posted: February 10, 2014 at 12:22 AM (#4654032)

"I think it's likely Sam coming out dropped him from 5th rounder to undrafted."

Tou must be new to gambling. I'll take your money if you need more education.
Your 5th-round call - that, I'd at least have to research.

   7845. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 10, 2014 at 12:24 AM (#4654033)
He'd be the first ever SEC Defensive Player of the Year to go undrafted then. Another barrier broken!
   7846. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 10, 2014 at 12:38 AM (#4654037)
we'll know we've made progress when some draft prospect announces he's gay and no one gives a shit
   7847. greenback likes millwall, they don't care Posted: February 10, 2014 at 01:02 AM (#4654038)
I guess if an NFL coach was both honest and unbigoted, he would say that Sam is undersized, but if Sam commits to an ungodly steroid regimen, then the team is interested.
   7848. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 10, 2014 at 01:20 AM (#4654043)
Well played, #7847.
   7849. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 10, 2014 at 01:37 AM (#4654049)
he's really not that undersized. 6'1, 260 is a bit small for a DE, but as a traditional 4-3 OLB, or even a 3-4 rush-LB, he fits in just fine. if he can run well at the combine and show the potential to cover TEs and RBs, that puts him in the 2/3/4/5 range alongside basically every other medium/high level LB in the NCAA.

two other thoughts:
1, this was absolutely the right time for him to come out. if you wait until after the draft, coming out could piss off some random homophobe on the team that drafts you with the power to ruin your career (hi mike preifer). but doing it now means that anyone who drafts you knows what they're getting and by doing it before the combine, he makes it easier on himself because teams can just evaluate him with that in mind, instead of going back afterwards and reevaluating him with an even more critical eye.

   7850. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 10, 2014 at 01:38 AM (#4654050)
and 2, i'm happy that he's going to be the first openly gay player, as opposed to someone like jason collins who lived in the closet for 10 or 15 years. honestly, i love gareth thomas and i love robbie rogers, but it's nice that michael sam is coming out just because it's who he is, as opposed to gareth thomas, who came out because the pressure of staying in the closet turned him into a suicidal trainwreck.


   7851. Squash Posted: February 10, 2014 at 01:38 AM (#4654051)
"That will break a tie against that player," the former general manager said. "Every time. Unless he's Superman. Why? Not that they're against gay people. It's more that some players are going to look at you upside down. Every Tom, Dick and Harry in the media is going to show up, from Good Housekeeping to the Today show. A general manager is going to ask, 'Why are we going to do that to ourselves?'

I'm not completely sure about that. For a lot of teams a little positive publicity in having the league's first openly gay active player is a feature, not a bug. Particularly a very crappy or very deep team in a liberal city ... Seattle? San Francisco? The Giants? He's probably going to get moved to OLB anyway so I wouldn't really compare him to other DEs.
   7852. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: February 10, 2014 at 02:23 AM (#4654062)
My prediction: Given a chance, Sam's sexuality will be as significant as Tim Tebow's Holy Roller status and Manti Teo's weird history as it relates to how his teammates perceive him. In other words, provided he shows up and works hard, it will be a non-issue.

Yes, there will be some neanderthal teammates/coaches who have a negative view of his orientation. But those voices will have no weight, and will not be welcome from the majority of his teammates.
   7853. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 10, 2014 at 11:38 PM (#4654573)
demaurice smith, the NFLPA's executive director:
“[W]hen you contrast a group of anonymous G.M.’s against a 24-year-old college player, it seems like only one of them had the guts to put his name behind his message,” Smith told CSN Washington. “So my first reaction has nothing to do with Michael Sam. My reaction is to call those G.M.’s for what they are: They’re gutless. And if a young man has the courage to stand up and put his name and his face to talk about what he thinks is important, I would expect that a grown man can do exactly the same thing. But apparently they can’t.”
   7854. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 18, 2014 at 11:33 AM (#4658431)
So, Richie Incognito fired his agent on Twitter and seems to be melting down on social media.

I haven't read the independent investigation. Someone give me the Cliffs Notes version.
   7855. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 18, 2014 at 11:49 AM (#4658444)
I haven't read it either, but presumably Incognito is melting down as the reality dawns on him that his football career is over.
   7856. JJ1986 Posted: February 18, 2014 at 11:54 AM (#4658448)
I read this summary, which I thought gave more than enough information.
   7857. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 18, 2014 at 12:22 PM (#4658472)
I read this summary, which I thought gave more than enough information.


Wow. That is....something. Even if you wanted to defend the "culture of the lockeroom", the treatment of the trainer is ripe for a lawsuit and digusting on several levels. Incognito is the kid who never grew up. John Jerry sounds pretty awful too.
   7858. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 22, 2014 at 01:47 AM (#4660655)
3 thoughts:
1, i'm gonna go out on a limb and say the eagles will sign both jairus byrd and tj ward this offseason. they probably don't need to sign both, but it seems like their styles of play complement each other very well, and they've played together and they've played for a chip kelly coached team. the team should have more than enough cap space to do it since nick foles is being paid nothing as a starting QB and it just seems to me that howie roseman is being very, very coy about his offseason plans and that seems kind of odd to me.

2, i was pretty vocal about not liking the eagles pick of zach ertz last year and while he played well this year, it just kills me that they could have passed on him last year and had joseph fauria as a 7th round pick instead and then they could have come back this year and been in prime position to pluck one of amaro, ebren or sefarian jenkins this year.

3, right now, i'd say a couple early under-the-radar-ish favorites of mine in this draft are DE/OLB kareem martin, DT/DE brent urban, DT/NT dequan jones, TE arthur lynch, and RB storm johnson.

3b, i'd also say that so far the only prospects i want no part of are louis nix and cyrus kouandijio. i can't quite find the words for why i don't like kouandijio, but i don't. and with nix, i just have visions of him collapsing on the field in exhaustion after 3 quarters worth of trying to catch wilson and kaepernick and newton and griffin.


   7859. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 22, 2014 at 03:00 PM (#4660761)
NFL to institute 15 yard penalties for niggas.
   7860. Joey B. is being stalked by a (Gonfa) loon Posted: February 22, 2014 at 03:12 PM (#4660764)
I haven't read it either, but presumably Incognito is melting down as the reality dawns on him that his football career is over.

Personally, I don't understand the ongoing media obsession with the Incognito/Martin story. Half of the professional blowhards on D.C. sports talk radio are obsessed with it and want to talk about almost nothing else.

I suppose I could understand it if (or when) Martin decides to file lawsuits, but he hasn't done that yet, and if he's not going to sue anyone, I'm ready to move on. He has said absolutely nothing publically that I'm aware of, and I'm not sure if he even wants to play professional football any longer.
   7861. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 22, 2014 at 11:12 PM (#4660905)
I'd be surprised if he played in the NFL again even if he wants to. He was good enough to be a first day pick, though, so some team may be desperate enough to kick the tires on him.

Hell, I'd be mildly surprised if Incognito played in the NFL again, but only mildly. It wouldn't shock me if he signed with the Jets soon.
   7862. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 23, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4661088)
3b, i'd also say that so far the only prospects i want no part of are louis nix and cyrus kouandijio. i can't quite find the words for why i don't like kouandijio, but i don't. and with nix, i just have visions of him collapsing on the field in exhaustion after 3 quarters worth of trying to catch wilson and kaepernick and newton and griffin.
well, i guess this makes a lot more sense now:
Ian Rapoport ? @RapSheet
Bad news for #Bama OT Cyrus Kouandjio. I’m told several teams have failed him on his physical. Arthritic knee from failed surgery. “Ugly.”
   7863. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 25, 2014 at 12:00 AM (#4661845)
There's been some talk that Martin would be a good fit for the Niners. He's played under Harbaugh and the latter had a lot of nice things to say about him.
   7864. Kurt Posted: February 26, 2014 at 10:38 AM (#4662694)
There's been some talk that Martin would be a good fit for the Niners. He's played under Harbaugh and the latter had a lot of nice things to say about him.


So, Harbaugh's still going to be with the team come September?
   7865. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 10:44 AM (#4662699)
Yea, what's the deal with the Harbaugh thing? Does he not get along with the GM? Or was this the Browns owner just covering his ass to make it seem like he was doing something to try to win?
   7866. Kurt Posted: February 26, 2014 at 11:13 AM (#4662728)
I'd like to know also. I heard a very brief snippet that he and the GM are not on speaking terms, but I really don't know what the story is there.
   7867. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 11, 2014 at 05:18 PM (#4669803)
Blaine Gabbert dealt to the 49ers for a 6th round pick. He makes twice as much as starting QB Colin Kaepernick.

FREE AGENCY!

DT Paul Soliai, DE Tyson Jackson and OG Jon Asamoah to ATL
OG Zane Beadles, DE Red Bryant to JAX
OG Geoff Schwartz, OLB O'Brien Schofield, S Stevie Brown to NYG
LB Adam Hayward, G Shawn Lauvao, WR Andre Roberts to WAS
WR Dexter McCluster to TEN
DT Earl Mitchell, OT Branden Albert to MIA
DT Arthur Jones to IND, CB Vontae Davis to IND
S TJ Ward to DEN
S Malcolm Jenkins to PHI
OT Eugene Monroe back to BAL
K Dan Carpenter back to BUF
TE Brandon Myers, DT Clinton McDonald to TB
DE Lamarr Houston to CHI
OT Jared Veldheer to ARI
OT Rodger Safford to OAK
LB Karlos Dansby, S Donte Whitner to CLE

DAL releases DE Demarcus Ware
PIT releases LB Lamarr Woodley
ATL releases S Thomas Decoud
HOU releases TE Owen Daniels and CB Brice McCain
   7868. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 11, 2014 at 05:43 PM (#4669811)
Man the Steelers are a mess, and they just keep kicking the can. The next few years are going to be miserable ones in Pittsburgh.
   7869. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:57 PM (#4669970)
The Gabbert acquisition will likely not mater much overall in the grand scheme of things. He'll likely make fewer than 10 passes next year for San Francisco and they will likely be in garbage time. That said, it's one that sounds better in theory but is more likely to be a bad move than a good move. Gabbert has a lot of physical ability and Harbaugh has a reputation as a QB whisperer but he's been really awful so far in the NFL. I think the Niners would have been better off signing a more traditional backup but Harbaugh/Balke have earned my trust.

I like the Jonathan Martin acquisition a lot more. He was a 2nd round pick just two years ago and has played for Harbaugh before. He's much more likely to be an asset. And the price is as cheap as it could possibly be, a conditional 7th round pick in the 2015 draft.
   7870. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 03:52 AM (#4670010)
The Gabbert acquisition looks like a pure vanity move--after all, the only quarterback that's ever been anywhere near as bad as Gabbert over more than a season's worth of work was Alex Smith.

Smith was better for a project than Gabbert, who is hopeless because he can't feel pressure and has no sense of timing.
   7871. Fancy Pants Handle doesn't need no water Posted: March 12, 2014 at 04:46 AM (#4670011)
The Gabbert acquisition looks like a pure vanity move--after all, the only quarterback that's ever been anywhere near as bad as Gabbert over more than a season's worth of work was Alex Smith.

JaMarcus Russell would like to throw his hat in the ring for that honor... but he missed the ring by 10 yards.
   7872. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 05:45 AM (#4670012)
It's hard to believe, but even JaMarcus wasn't as bad as Alex Smith's first three seasons.
   7873. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 09:49 AM (#4670061)
CB Aqib Talib to DEN
S Jairus Byrd to NO
LB D'Qwell Jackson to IND
DE Michael Johnson and CB Alterraun Verner to TB
DE Michael Bennett back to SEA
DE Everson Griffin back to MIN
CB Sam Shields back to GB
QB Matt Cassel back to MIN
QB Chad Henne back to JAX
TE John Carlson to ARI

DE Julius Peppers let go
WR Santonio Holmes let go
WR Lance Moore let go
CB Antonio Cromartie let go
CB Carlos Rogers let go
CB Champ Bailey let go

RB Darren Sproles was going to be released but so many teams expressed interest in him, the Saints are going to trade him instead
   7874. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: March 12, 2014 at 10:24 AM (#4670094)
it doesn't seem like there are many good safeties left on the market, which isn't a good thing since the eagles still kind of need one. i'd say their best option right now would be to sign an older corner that they can convert to the position. someone like champ bailey or charles tillman or jabari greer or maybe charles woodson, who's already made that conversion. any of those guys is only a stopgap, but i think that's a better option than signing someone because he's younger, but who's also just not very good.

   7875. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 10:50 AM (#4670122)
it doesn't seem like there are many good safeties left on the market, which isn't a good thing since the eagles still kind of need one. i'd say their best option right now would be to sign an older corner that they can convert to the position. someone like champ bailey or charles tillman or jabari greer or maybe charles woodson, who's already made that conversion. any of those guys is only a stopgap, but i think that's a better option than signing someone because he's younger, but who's also just not very good.


Chris Clemons is still out there. I would like to see the Eagles get him and re-sign Nate Allen, still think he could be worthwhile.
   7876. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:09 PM (#4670217)
Chris Clemons is still out there. I would like to see the Eagles get him and re-sign Nate Allen, still think he could be worthwhile.
well, i agree with you, in that those are the last 2 safeties i'd be okay with signing as starters (though i'd strongly prefer clemons to allen if the money is reasonable; and there's a third guy out there, major wright, but i'm not really a fan of his), but i think it's a better idea to sign one of the guys i mentioned (bailey, woodson, greer, tillman) and then come out of the draft with another safety, so that you go into training camp with (as an example) jenkins, wolff, champ bailey and tre boston, giving you 4 potential starters that can grow into the position (since all of them will be somewhat new) and who will compete for playing time going into the season. that's kind of a dice throw, but (compared to signing clemons...and doubly/triply so nate allen) i think it's a plan that's more likely to produce above average play both this season and in the future, whereas signing clemons is more likely to produce average* play this season and in the future.


*which isn't to say that average is bad, but clemons is very wysiwyg and there's a reason every other safety of note but him is already signed. also, even if the eagles sign clemons, average is not a guarantee.


oh, and i'd be very okay with the eagles signing ravens DB corey graham.
   7877. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:54 PM (#4670276)
*which isn't to say that average is bad, but clemons is very wysiwyg and there's a reason every other safety of note but him is already signed. also, even if the eagles sign clemons, average is not a guarantee.


This is true, but I don't like the idea of trying an older, breaking down player at S. I think all of the injuries and turnover at the position hurts almost as much as the lack of talent. There is value in that 200 inning, average ERA, starter pitcher beyond just his stats. That's how I am viewing S for the Eagles - not a plus position for them, but at least get it back to zero value gained or lost.
   7878. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: March 12, 2014 at 02:27 PM (#4670400)
This is true, but I don't like the idea of trying an older, breaking down player at S. I think all of the injuries and turnover at the position hurts almost as much as the lack of talent. There is value in that 200 inning, average ERA, starter pitcher beyond just his stats. That's how I am viewing S for the Eagles - not a plus position for them, but at least get it back to zero value gained or lost.
the problem with that is that the eagles have been signing that exact guy ever since dawkins left. marlin jackson was supposed to be that guy. patrick chung was supposed to be that guy. jared page, kenny phillips.

chris clemons might be better than those guys (or at least healthier), but he's in that same mold. 160-200 IP, 90-95 ERA+...unless he falls off the table, which is a fairly common occurrence.


otoh, champ bailey and my personal man-crush, charles tillman, are blue-chip talents at CB, and although they're aging, you might get to return to form with a move to safety. losing speed and agility is less damaging at safety, and if a player has great instincts at CB, it usually carries over in the switch. and it's been done before, and effectively. charles woodson has already made that switch; rod woodson did it; aeneas williams did it; deion sanders did it.

it raises the talent level on your defense and gives you another veteran leader on the field and in the locker room. you're not bringing champ bailey (or tillman or woodson or greer) in to be your defense's best player, and you're not gonna break the bank to get him, either (if someone was willing to break the bank for him, it'd be as a CB, not a S). and aside from his/their age (which may in fact be a dealbreaker for the eagles), he/they seem to check off a lot of the boxes the eagles value when looking at free agents.
   7879. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 02:57 PM (#4670427)
Can anyone point me to an analysis of how well NFL players age at certain positions?
   7880. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: March 12, 2014 at 03:26 PM (#4670460)
otoh, champ bailey and my personal man-crush, charles tillman, are blue-chip talents at CB, and although they're aging, you might get to return to form with a move to safety.


#Facepalm
   7881. Fancy Pants Handle doesn't need no water Posted: March 12, 2014 at 03:39 PM (#4670472)
Can anyone point me to an analysis of how well NFL players age at certain positions?

Poorly.
   7882. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 03:53 PM (#4670484)
Tillman strikes me as a guy that might quickly morph into a Pro Bowl-caliber safety. Good corners who aren't afraid of contact are a good bet for that conversion.
   7883. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: March 12, 2014 at 04:04 PM (#4670497)
Poorly.
yep. i would say the only possible exceptions are safety and offensive tackle. well, and kicker, but they're not real people, so who cares.
   7884. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: March 12, 2014 at 04:06 PM (#4670498)
#Facepalm
what do you have against peanut?
   7885. Every Inge Counts Posted: March 12, 2014 at 04:11 PM (#4670503)
Love the Lions signing of Golden Tate today.
   7886. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: March 12, 2014 at 05:37 PM (#4670583)
i'm looking at this mockdraft on walterfootball, and comparing who's on the board around the eagles picks to who i like personally, and right now, my favorite player on the board at each of the eagles picks are:

1: kony ealy, DE, missouri
2: kareem martin, DE, north carolina
3: daquan jones, DT, penn state
4: deandre coleman, DE, california


so, i'm gonna go ahead and say they should draft a DB in the 1st round. or maybe a TE. or ideally, just trade down.
   7887. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: March 12, 2014 at 05:41 PM (#4670586)
How many TEs do they need?
   7888. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 05:42 PM (#4670588)
DeMarcus Ware to Denver. Browns release Jason Campbell and Brandon Weeden. Browns planning on running 100% Wildcat next year!
   7889. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 06:01 PM (#4670593)
i'm looking at this mockdraft on walterfootball, and comparing who's on the board around the eagles picks to who i like personally, and right now, my favorite player on the board at each of the eagles picks are:


I am curious to see if the Eagles will continue with the 'never have enough OL' philosophy when it comes to the draft now that Reid is gone.
   7890. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: March 12, 2014 at 06:11 PM (#4670597)
what do you have against peanut?


As a corner, nothing. "Although they're aging, you might get to return to form with a move to safety." sounds like a transcript of a WIP call.

i'm looking at this mockdraft on walterfootball


Walterfootball is a joke.

I am curious to see if the Eagles will continue with the 'never have enough OL' philosophy when it comes to the draft now that Reid is gone.


They brought in four offensive linemen last year, three of which were rookies.
   7891. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: March 12, 2014 at 06:26 PM (#4670603)
Walterfootball is a joke.
what does that even mean?
   7892. zenbitz Posted: March 12, 2014 at 06:40 PM (#4670616)
Is Safety the least important non-kicking starting position on an NFL team?
   7893. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: March 12, 2014 at 06:57 PM (#4670627)
what does that even mean?


Walter Cherepinsky is considered a joke by his peers. He pumps out a ton of mock drafts but has no actual substance.
   7894. zenbitz Posted: March 12, 2014 at 07:10 PM (#4670628)
There are mock drafts that are not jokes? Or Walter only does mock drafts which are, almost by definition, long boring jokes?
   7895. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: March 12, 2014 at 07:22 PM (#4670631)
There are mock drafts that are not jokes?


Well, unlike Cherepinkski there are ones that don't just repeat the exact same thing each week because he's lazy. He's a guy who doesn't know what he is talking about but he's got his own website so people think he does.
   7896. JJ1986 Posted: March 12, 2014 at 08:12 PM (#4670649)
Walter's bad for other reasons, his picks have been in the toilet for three years because he tries to use way too many one-size-fits-all rules (last year his rule was basically bet-with-sharps/fade-the-public), but I don't see anything particularly bad about his mock drafts.
   7897. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 08:33 PM (#4670658)
If he actually knew what the sharps were doing, he'd be a sharp.
   7898. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 12, 2014 at 09:53 PM (#4670683)
Revis a Patriot, Talib and Ware a Bronco. Both teams need to go for it while Brady and Manning are still elite QBs.
   7899. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:18 AM (#4670780)
Sproles to the Eagles for a 5th rounder. Love it.
   7900. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:26 AM (#4670787)
Oh man, Sproles + Kelly = fun to watch, provided Sproles still has speed left in the tank.
Page 79 of 80 pages ‹ First  < 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
The Id of SugarBear Blanks
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogToronto Star: Blue Jays pave way for grass at the Rogers Centre
(20 - 11:26pm, Apr 24)
Last: Boileryard

NewsblogJonah Keri Extended Interview | Video | Late Night with Seth Meyers | NBC
(15 - 11:24pm, Apr 24)
Last: Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016

NewsblogOT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2014
(527 - 11:23pm, Apr 24)
Last: Maxwn

NewsblogConnie Marrero, oldest Major Leaguer, dies at 102
(23 - 11:20pm, Apr 24)
Last: Russ

NewsblogOMNICHATTER for 4-24-2014
(60 - 10:59pm, Apr 24)
Last: Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes

NewsblogMichael Pineda ejected from Red Sox game after pine tar discovered on neck
(126 - 10:33pm, Apr 24)
Last: AJMcCringleberry

NewsblogJosh Lueke Is A Rapist, You Say? Keep Saying It.
(260 - 10:13pm, Apr 24)
Last: CrosbyBird

NewsblogColiseum Authority accuses Athletics of not paying rent
(28 - 10:08pm, Apr 24)
Last: bobm

NewsblogIndians Usher Says He Was Fired for Refusing to Wear Pro-Sin Tax Sticker
(25 - 10:05pm, Apr 24)
Last: bobm

NewsblogOTP April 2014: BurstNET Sued for Not Making Equipment Lease Payments
(2653 - 9:55pm, Apr 24)
Last: CrosbyBird

NewsblogNY Times: The Upshot: Up Close on Baseball’s Borders
(58 - 9:22pm, Apr 24)
Last: Esoteric

NewsblogMatt Williams: No problem with Harper's two-strike bunting
(29 - 9:19pm, Apr 24)
Last: boteman digs the circuit clout

NewsblogOT: The NHL is finally back thread, part 2
(234 - 8:44pm, Apr 24)
Last: zack

NewsblogCalcaterra: Blogger Murray Chass attacks me for bad reporting, ignores quotes, evidence in doing so
(38 - 8:41pm, Apr 24)
Last: Hysterical & Useless

NewsblogThe Five “Acts” of Ike Davis’s Career, and Why Trading Ike Was a Mistake
(68 - 8:24pm, Apr 24)
Last: Walt Davis

Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats

 

 

 

 

Page rendered in 1.0796 seconds
53 querie(s) executed