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Tuesday, November 06, 2012

OT: NFL/NHL thread

i estimate that absolutely noone gives a damn about the NHL, so by folding that thread into this one, we won’t distract from what this thread is really about: boner pills, blood doping (is it low t?), and…jesus christ did mike vick just throw another ####### interception?

steagles Posted: November 06, 2012 at 12:03 AM | 7987 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nfl, nhl

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   7901. jmurph Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:27 AM (#4670789)
Sproles to the Eagles for a 5th rounder. Love it.


The NFL's salary/draft structure continues to be immensely stupid. What an insane deal.
   7902. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:31 AM (#4670794)
Oh man, Sproles + Kelly = fun to watch, provided Sproles still has speed left in the tank.


Yeah, I am pretty excited to see what that offense can do with a year under their belt. Pretty much the exact same team, except Jason Avant has been (theoretically) upgraded to Jeremy Maclin and now Sproles comes in to add to the RB mix.

Makes the draft easy for the eagles - get the best defensive player available in the early rounds, then take shots at WR or OL later on in the draft.
   7903. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:32 AM (#4670795)
The NFL's salary/draft structure continues to be immensely stupid. What an insane deal.


Learn to manage your cap. It's not really that hard.
   7904. jmurph Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:56 AM (#4670810)
Learn to manage your cap. It's not really that hard.


Ha, tell that to about 20 teams.

But that's not really what I was getting at. These kinds of deals are silly. Nearly every team in the league should be willing to offer better than a 5th rounder for Sproles, much like with the Boldin deal last year.
   7905. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 02:07 PM (#4670988)
DE Chris Clemons, DL Ziggy Hood to the Jags
WR Eric Decker to the J-E-T-S
WR Jacoby Jones stayd in BAL
QB Josh McCown to TB - will be the starter
   7906. zenbitz Posted: March 13, 2014 at 02:21 PM (#4670992)
If you imagine the NFL as just offering 1-year contracts to everyone all the time, then everything begins to make sense. The trades are always outliers because the value of someone under contract (other than recent 1st round draft picks) is essentially 0.
   7907. steagles Posted: March 13, 2014 at 02:45 PM (#4671000)
But that's not really what I was getting at. These kinds of deals are silly. Nearly every team in the league should be willing to offer better than a 5th rounder for Sproles, much like with the Boldin deal last year.
before the 2007 season where the patriots went 18-1, they acquired randy moss and wes welker for samson setele (2nd round pick), jon bowie (4th round pick) and abraham wright (7th round pick). moss and welker combined for 2600 receiving yards and 31 TDs that season.

my guess would be that this trade does not work out quite as well as either of those.
   7908. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 13, 2014 at 02:54 PM (#4671004)
DL Ziggy Hood to the Jags


You're just making up names now, right?
   7909. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 02:56 PM (#4671005)
But that's not really what I was getting at. These kinds of deals are silly. Nearly every team in the league should be willing to offer better than a 5th rounder for Sproles, much like with the Boldin deal last year.


But the draft pick is worth $16 million+!!!!!

I'm kidding. But if you think MLB teams overrate draft picks, NFL teams are 1000000 times worse.
   7910. JJ1986 Posted: March 13, 2014 at 02:59 PM (#4671007)
You're just making up names now, right?


"Evander Hood" sounds even more fake.
   7911. jmurph Posted: March 13, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4671053)
But if you think MLB teams overrate draft picks, NFL teams are 1000000 times worse.


Big time, that's a significant part of it. It's also underrating actual talent, especially in a world like the NFL where you can get out of many deals so easily. And, as jacksone alluded to, many teams are just really bad at managing their caps.
   7912. Joey B.: posting for the kids of northeast Ohio Posted: March 17, 2014 at 12:46 PM (#4672801)
Colts owner Jim Irsay arrested.

Colts owner Jim Irsay faces four felony counts after being arrested late Sunday night on preliminary charges of possession of a controlled substance and driving while intoxicated.

Irsay was arrested in the northern Indianapolis suburb of Carmel, according to the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office. His bond was set at $22,500.

"During the course of the investigation, Irsay subsequently failed several roadside field sobriety tests," Carmel police Lt. Joe Bickel said in a release.

While searching Irsay's vehicle, "multiple prescription drugs were discovered in pill bottles. These Schedule IV prescription drugs were not associated with any prescription bottles found in the vehicle," according to police.


I bet a few old-timer Colts fans still in Baltimore are probably smiling right now.
   7913. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 17, 2014 at 01:03 PM (#4672824)
How about that, an NFL owner pinched not 500 yards from my front door. If the address of the traffic stop is accurate, that's coincidentally quite close to the Colts K, Vinitari's house(sp)) Irsay lives about a mile and a half south of this.

So the biggest twitter user amongst the NFL brass doesn't know how to use Uber?
   7914. Joey B.: posting for the kids of northeast Ohio Posted: March 17, 2014 at 06:47 PM (#4673082)
Given Irsay's enormous wealth and his long-established issues with drugs and alcohol, that bond personally seems absurdly low to me. He's pretty clearly a danger to the community, whether he wants to be or not.
   7915. Publius Publicola Posted: March 17, 2014 at 10:40 PM (#4673147)
Vinitari's house(sp))


Nope. You spelled house correctly.
   7916. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: March 17, 2014 at 11:48 PM (#4673155)
otoh, champ bailey and my personal man-crush, charles tillman, are blue-chip talents at CB, and although they're aging, you might get to return to form with a move to safety. losing speed and agility is less damaging at safety, and if a player has great instincts at CB, it usually carries over in the switch. and it's been done before, and effectively. charles woodson has already made that switch; rod woodson did it; aeneas williams did it; deion sanders did it.

I'm glad the Bears resigned Tillman, and have kinda wanted them to move him to safety for a couple months now. But he's still fine at CB, if he can stay healthy. As for the bolded part, is that true? I don't remember that.

Is Safety the least important non-kicking starting position on an NFL team?

I doubt this, but I don't know what the answer would be. If the Bears had even one average safety last year, they're in the playoffs (that 4th down against GB is only one play, but that was the difference) and they might have won several more games.
   7917. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 18, 2014 at 06:35 AM (#4673176)
The least important position on an NFL team is running back, or at least it's the most fungible. There's nearly zero correlation between the stature of a team's running back and its success. Actually there may be an inverse correlation, because star running backs take up a lot of cap space (think of all the very most famous running backs since Emmitt Smith that come to your mind, and note how few Super Bowl appearances they have among them).
   7918. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 18, 2014 at 07:55 AM (#4673184)
So, after being subjected to a trailer for this movie--MOVIE--about the NFL draft starring Kevin Costner and Jennifer Garner (of course Jennifer Garner, who is more football than Jennifer Garner) I officially proclaim that the NFL has jumped the shark.
   7919. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: March 18, 2014 at 08:06 AM (#4673188)
Is Safety the least important non-kicking starting position on an NFL team?

no, tight end. pretty sure tight end is the lowest paid starting position in the nfl.

and I think if you broke out 'center' from the larger population of 'offensive linemen' folks would be surprised how little centers are paid in the league
   7920. Howie Menckel Posted: March 18, 2014 at 09:14 AM (#4673210)

The Giants won a Super Bowl a few years back while finishing last in the league in rushing. Granted, they weren't all that good a team, but still.....
   7921. puck Posted: March 18, 2014 at 11:14 AM (#4673295)
Ronnie Lott moved to safety, though he did it a lot earlier than the other guys discussed. Bailey is a good tackler, so that's another data point suggesting he could make the move.
   7922. steagles Posted: March 18, 2014 at 07:06 PM (#4673635)
Colts owner Jim Irsay arrested.
jesus this guy just showed up on parks and rec looking drugged out of his mind. oh god, and now here's newt gingrich.

As for the bolded part, is that true? I don't remember that.
seeing as you're the 2nd (3rd?) person to question that, i may be wrong. i thought he moved to safety when he got to baltimore, but maybe not.

anyway, the eagles signed nate allen. i'm not a huge fan of that, but i can't imagine he'll hurt the team too badly. and if you take away the fact that he was with the eagles, he does make sense as a guy in howie roseman's wheelhouse. he's a young former 2nd round pick, who's cheap and had his development held back by constant scheme and coaching changes.
and I think if you broke out 'center' from the larger population of 'offensive linemen' folks would be surprised how little centers are paid in the league
i think guards are a lot more fungible than centers, there just happens to be a much larger pool of guards for teams to choose from.
   7923. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: March 19, 2014 at 04:08 PM (#4674119)
no, tight end. pretty sure tight end is the lowest paid starting position in the nfl.

and I think if you broke out 'center' from the larger population of 'offensive linemen' folks would be surprised how little centers are paid in the league

If we are parsing positions that fine, the answer is fullback.
   7924. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 25, 2014 at 02:17 PM (#4676835)
Matt Schaub to the Raiders, Mike Vick to the Jets, Mark Sanchez to the Eagles

The merry-go-round of awful QBs never stops y'all.
   7925. steagles Posted: March 26, 2014 at 02:58 AM (#4677094)
Matt Schaub to the Raiders, Mike Vick to the Jets, Mark Sanchez to the Eagles

The merry-go-round of awful QBs never stops y'all.
i am not at all optimistic about sanchez, but at least he's the youngest of the 3.

and if matt barkley legitimately outplays him in the preseason, i will actually feel somewhat better about barkley's future as a QB.
   7926. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 26, 2014 at 10:13 AM (#4677185)
i am not at all optimistic about sanchez, but at least he's the youngest of the 3.

and if matt barkley legitimately outplays him in the preseason, i will actually feel somewhat better about barkley's future as a QB.


If Foles gets hurt, or regresses, the Eagles are done. Although that is true of 90% of teams out there, so I guess it's not something to worry about. Any word on the contract $$?
   7927. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: March 26, 2014 at 10:25 AM (#4677192)
Bears sign Jared Allen. He gets almost 2x as much guaranteed as Peppers (~$8mil to ~$15mil) but a overall smaller deal (3/$30 vs 4/$32). Allen's a better pass rusher at this point, but Peppers still has to be the better overall player (maybe?). And Allen is the 3rd FA DE the Bears signed (Houston, Young). Not sure how to feel about this right now - though it does mean a DT is almost a lock to be the first pick. I'm still not liking the patchwork LB and S spots, but they're clearly done with FAs now (Cutler actually restructured his deal already to fit in Allen).

Or maybe I'm just wrong. He's younger, and more "impactful".

EDIT: Also, maybe this means the Bulls take a S first. I dunno.
   7928. zack Posted: March 26, 2014 at 12:11 PM (#4677247)
RIP Ralph Wilson, the only owner the Bills have ever had.

I was convinced for a long time that when he died, the Bills were out of Buffalo, but I believe they just signed a development deal with the State that should keep them around for a few years. With Jim Kelly getting cancer treatment, not a great day for Bills fans.
   7929. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 01:54 PM (#4678302)
DeSean Jackson and the Eagles have conspicuously uncoupled.
   7930. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 28, 2014 at 01:59 PM (#4678307)
Apparently, Jackson has been affliated with some gang members and that's part of the reason he ended up there.

He has been linked with the Raiders, Jets, Seahawks, and Niners. If either of the latter two get him, they'd be the favorites. If Seattle gets him, they'd be the prohibitive favorites. They had the best pass defense last year and if they went into the season with Harvin and Jackson, they'd have a pretty strong passing offense as well.
   7931. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:07 PM (#4678312)
Goal post "dunks" are now illegal. I guess they were waiting for Gonzalez to retire before making his move a penalty. But they still get to leap into the stands in Green Bay? I wonder if they'll ever call that "I just caught a three yard slant on 2nd' and 2, let me get up and dance around and make a first down sign in the face of the DB" thing a taunting penalty.
   7932. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:21 PM (#4678367)
The NFL outlawed goalpost dunks because Jimmy Graham damaged a goalpost with one and delayed a game last year.

Someone made a very good point I hadn't thought of about moving the spot on extra points back to the 20 or 25: That making extra points non-automatic will encourage coaches, who already attempt far too many field goals, to attempt even more field goals rather than trying for touchdowns.

I think giving a touchdown-scoring team the choice between an automatic one point and an attempt from the 2 yard line for two points is the way to go.
   7933. steagles Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:49 PM (#4678390)
DeSean Jackson and the Eagles have conspicuously uncoupled.
still have all the faith in the world in chip kelly.

but if this is closer to a cris carter situation than an aaron hernandez one, this is a terrible move.
   7934. Kurt Posted: March 28, 2014 at 04:21 PM (#4678405)
Goal post "dunks" are now illegal. I guess they were waiting for Gonzalez to retire before making his move a penalty. But they still get to leap into the stands in Green Bay? I wonder if they'll ever call that "I just caught a three yard slant on 2nd' and 2, let me get up and dance around and make a first down sign in the face of the DB" thing a taunting penalty.


I've lost track, is the Santana Moss spin thing a penalty yet?
   7935. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 04:35 PM (#4678414)
DeSean Jackson is cut for hanging out with dudes. Ray Rice on the other hand...
   7936. Joey B.: posting for the kids of northeast Ohio Posted: March 28, 2014 at 06:07 PM (#4678438)
DeSean Jackson is cut for hanging out with dudes.

Yeah, those "dudes" sure sound like regular choirboys.

And his rather dubious associates in fact are far from the only reason they cut him and are going to be taking a $6 million cap hit for doing so:

Rather, sources close to Jackson and within the Eagles' organization say, it originally was Jackson's off-field behavior that concerned the front office. A bad attitude, an inconsistent work ethic, missed meetings and a lack of chemistry with head coach Chip Kelly were the original reasons for his fall from grace, sources told NJ.com.
   7937. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 07:29 PM (#4678451)
Jackson clearly took plays off and I can see him clashing with Kelly, so I don't blame them I suppose if it was just a bad chemistry fit. But

it originally was Jackson's off-field behavior that concerned the front office.


C'mon man, you signed your QB out of LEAVENWORTH FEDERAL PEN.
   7938. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 29, 2014 at 12:46 AM (#4678512)
I'm not dogging the cutting of Jackson, but there are many examples, besides Rice, where guys are kept around, despite of their conduct off the field.
   7939. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 03, 2014 at 05:03 PM (#4678749)
Jackson clearly took plays off


Every WR clearly takes plays off.

I am pissed. Feels too much like Kelly is making a power play just to show he's boss. Jackson's $$ was high but easily affordable for the Eagles, with Foles costing nothing they comfortably locked up the entire core of the team. At some point you need to be able to incorporate someone who you don't get along with as a head coach to get that extra win.
   7940. steagles Posted: April 03, 2014 at 07:35 PM (#4678865)
Every WR clearly takes plays off.

I am pissed. Feels too much like Kelly is making a power play just to show he's boss. Jackson's $$ was high but easily affordable for the Eagles, with Foles costing nothing they comfortably locked up the entire core of the team. At some point you need to be able to incorporate someone who you don't get along with as a head coach to get that extra win.
i trust chip kelly. but i'd be a lot happier if jackson hadn't signed in DC.

that should be a scary offense. jackson, garcon, reed, morris, griffin and trent williams. if they were coached by chip kelly, they'd be unstoppable.



anyway, i expect the eagles to use a ton of multi-TE sets this year. and with darren sproles on the roster, i think they'll use more 2-back formations, too. that, plus getting maclin back seems likely to at least replace the playing time jackson got here.

and looking at the draft, i would trade down if at all possible. i'm not a huge fan of either clinton-dix or pryor, and i don't think there's a big difference between dee ford/jarvis landry at 22 and scott crichton/allen robinson at 42, so getting some extra picks would be ideal, imo.

as for specific names, scott crichton at OLB, christian jones at ILB and keith mcgill at DB would not surprise me at all. and since brent celek gets carried off the field every other week because of a hit to the head, i'd really like to steal austin seferian-jenkins too, if at all possible.
   7941. steagles Posted: April 24, 2014 at 04:43 PM (#4693491)
i don't know that a lot of people will agree with me on this, but i think greg robinson is the best prospect in this draft. he is huge and athletic and LTs are so much more valuable than pass rushers or receivers that it seems really odd to me that robinson isn't getting nearly as much support as watkins or mack or clowney.

robinson is the best LT prospect since trent williams, and if he hits his ceiling, a great LT helps in the running game, in the passing game, he keeps your franchise QB from getting killed, he can't be gameplanned against, isn't susceptible to slumps, and will almost certainly have a 10-15 year run of being one of the best LTs in the sport.

   7942. steagles Posted: May 01, 2014 at 03:05 AM (#4698064)
best guess/case for the eagles:
22: ra'shede hageman, DT/DE minnesota
54: scott crichton, rush LB oregon state
86: deone bucannon, S washington state
122: telvin smith, LB florida state
162: shaq evans, WR UCLA


i know that hageman is kind of a polarizing prospect, but i think you need big athletes like him on the defensive line to have any chance at slowing down RGIII and russell wilson and cam newton and colin kaepernick, all of whom are going to stand between the eagles and the superbowl for the next decade. i think him, bennie logan and fletcher cox could turn into a dominant unit, and if vinny curry sticks around, he gives you boost as a pass rusher.

crichton and smith might not start this year, but they'd be penciled in to take over for trent cole and demeco ryans at some point.
bucannon would give you another body to throw into the meat grinder at safety alongside jenkins, allen, wolff and maragos(?)

and then shaq evans just seems like a chip kelly guy and good value if you can get him in the 5th/6th/7th round.
   7943. zenbitz Posted: May 01, 2014 at 03:47 PM (#4698377)
I thought this was vaguely interesting from an analytics perspective:

http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/2014/04/bayesian-draft-prediction-model.html#more

There is a PCA article there too but meh.
   7944. steagles Posted: May 06, 2014 at 01:11 AM (#4700926)
my not final, but pretty close to final wishlist(/ish, notes on bottom):
day 1:
ra'shede hageman DT/DE minnesota
anthony barr OLB UCLA
eric ebren TE UNC
ryan shazier LB ohio state

day 2:
dominique easley DT/DE florida
allen robinson WR penn state
daquan jones DT penn state
stephen tuitt DT/DE notre dame
austin seferian jenkins TE washington
kyle van noy LB BYU
cody latimer WR indiana
kareem martin DE/OLB UNC
scott crichton DE/OLB oregon state
marcus smith DE/OLB louisville
dee ford DE/OLB auburn
christian jones LB florida state

day 3:
will clarke DE/OLB west virginia
brent urban DE west virginia
khairi fortt LB cal
arthur lynch TE georgia
telvin smith LB florida state
shaq evans WR UCLA
taylor hart DT/DE oregon
deandre coleman DT/DE cal
shane skov LB stanford
devon kennard LB USC
devin street WR pitt


notes:
i didn't look at RBs or QBs because i don't think the eagles need either of them.
i didn't even try to look at DBs because i have even less of an idea of what makes them tick than every other position. i probably would not complain too much if the eagles took one in the 1st round.
the eagles could use an offensive lineman, but probably not until the 5th/6th/7th round.
i'd really prefer the eagles not draft a WR in the first round, but if they do, i'd take marquise lee over cooks, beckham, benjamin, latimer and robinson.


i still think the best scenario is trading down. luckily, since QBs seem to be falling out of favor in the top 10, i think it might wind up being possible to get a 2/3/4 from some team looking to get ahead of the browns at 26 if they don't take a QB at 2.
   7945. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 10:45 PM (#4703188)
Welcome to the Factory of Sadness, Johnny.
   7946. SteveF Posted: May 08, 2014 at 10:52 PM (#4703193)
Welcome to the Factory of Sadness, Johnny.

If you pick enough quarterbacks, eventually one of them won't suck.
   7947. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 08, 2014 at 10:54 PM (#4703195)
   7948. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 10:59 PM (#4703196)
Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel were all drafted by the Factory of Sadness at #22, after they picked someone else with a top ten pick.

You can't make this #### up.
   7949. JuanGone..except1game Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:16 PM (#4703199)
Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel were all drafted by the Factory of Sadness at #22, after they picked someone else with a top ten pick.

THIRD TIME'S THE CHARM!!
   7950. steagles Posted: May 09, 2014 at 01:22 AM (#4703212)
i'd say the cardinals had the worst night. they traded the 20th pick for the 27th and 91st, while the eagles traded the 22nd pick for 26th and 83rd, which means their GM is either lazy, unpopular, inept or some combination thereof, and then they went out and drafted a 3rd round prospect at a non-premium position.


meanwhile, i liked that the eagles traded down (though i would have really loved it if they had managed to do it again; 2 second round picks and 3 third round picks would have been a dream in this draft) and i guess marcus smith fits with a lot of what the coaching staff has been saying since they've gotten here, that they weren't interested in specialists, but guys who could do a little bit of everything. they talked about it with barwin and jenkins and after drafting smith, i guess that's now something that has to be taken seriously in the future.
   7951. DA Baracus Posted: May 09, 2014 at 03:37 AM (#4703225)
i'd say the cardinals had the worst night. they traded the 20th pick for the 27th and 91st, while the eagles traded the 22nd pick for 26th and 83rd, which means their GM is either lazy, unpopular, inept or some combination thereof, and then they went out and drafted a 3rd round prospect at a non-premium position.


20 for 27 and 91 is in line with previous trades from that position. The Eagles benefited greatly from Cleveland being dumb.
   7952. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 09, 2014 at 09:31 AM (#4703281)
So I guess the Chiefs drafted a guy who was not only a reach, but an injury risk. And they bypassed a pretty good corner (Dennard) and wideout (Marquise Lee) to do so! Awesome!

Rams and (feels weird to write this) Browns seem to make out the best out of this. The Bills GM is clearly drafting for his job, no?
   7953. Bitter Mouse Posted: May 09, 2014 at 09:35 AM (#4703283)
The Factory of Sadness is a great phrase, by the way. Just awesome and I may steal and re-purpose it.
   7954. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: May 09, 2014 at 09:43 AM (#4703291)
At #10, a hybrid tight end who can't block and drops a bunch of passes, when you drafted a TE in the first round five years ago who you just resigned and when you already have another tight end you use in the red zone.

When your back seven is godawful and plenty of potential blue chip back seven guys are still on the board.

Don't ever change, Lions. Don't ever change.
   7955. Bad Doctor Posted: May 09, 2014 at 10:08 AM (#4703316)
meanwhile, i liked that the eagles traded down (though i would have really loved it if they had managed to do it again; 2 second round picks and 3 third round picks would have been a dream in this draft) and i guess marcus smith fits with a lot of what the coaching staff has been saying since they've gotten here, that they weren't interested in specialists, but guys who could do a little bit of everything. they talked about it with barwin and jenkins and after drafting smith, i guess that's now something that has to be taken seriously in the future.

The trade down was great. A third round pick is nothing to sneeze at ... as Kelly points out, that equaled Bennie Logan last year. This year, you could get an intriguing guy down there ... someone like, I don't know, Marcus Smith!

For all the predraft talk about Manziel, and Kelly's love of dynamic quarterbacks, apparently his true loves are converted quarterbacks.
   7956. zenbitz Posted: May 09, 2014 at 02:23 PM (#4703563)
As a 49 fan, all I can say after Round 1 "Huh" is ... "In Baalke We Trust".
   7957. zenbitz Posted: May 09, 2014 at 04:06 PM (#4703666)
....And then he Ninja's Stevie Johnson for a conditional 3/4/5 (not sure in what round) in 2015.
   7958. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: May 09, 2014 at 04:34 PM (#4703688)
With Donald not falling to the Bears, I feel OK with drafting Fuller. DT is probably their biggest need with safety and CB both being high on the list. I was mildly surprised they didn't take Pryor or Clinton-Dix but if they think Fuller is a better player then I'm all for it.

I would bet any amount of pretend money they go DT with their next pick. They are fortunate that there is a lot of talent still on the board at that position. Hopefully the second round doesn't begin with a run on that position. The coming QB scrambling should help.
   7959. DA Baracus Posted: May 09, 2014 at 04:44 PM (#4703693)
So I guess the Chiefs drafted a guy who was not only a reach, but an injury risk. And they bypassed a pretty good corner (Dennard) and wideout (Marquise Lee) to do so! Awesome!


Lee fell out of the 1st for medical reasons.

This year, you could get an intriguing guy down there ... someone like, I don't know, Marcus Smith!


Mock drafts are worthless. Former scout Daniel Jeremiah in April: "I've talked to 2 GM's in the last week that swear Smith will be gone by pick 35"
   7960. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: May 10, 2014 at 12:11 AM (#4703893)
My worthless thoughts about the Niners draft so far.

They had an obvious need at defensive back. I would have preferred an actual cornerback but apparently Jimmie Ward can play there as well as safety. I just don't like the idea of going into next year with Tremaine Brock, Chris Culliver, and Ward as their cornerbacks. The front seven has been the strength of their defense and that's going to have to be the case even more so this season.

Wide Receiver: Stevie Johnson is a nice pickup but they still didn't get anyone that can stretch the field as a WR. Vernon Davis does a fine job of doing that for them at TE but I would have liked them to get a guy like that in this draft. I don't get that Borland pick at all, using a 3rd round pick on a special teamer/backup inside linebacker when you have Bowman and Willis. Would have preferred a WR there.

I really like the Carlos Hyde pick. Gore looked like he was slowing down late year and he's got a lot of miles on him. Marcus Lattimore can't be your best option as insurance if Gore loses it this year and now he's not. Lattimore, Hyde, and Kendall Hunter is very good insurance if Gore is done.

Marcus Martin is apparently a monster runblocker at center. That'll work for the team the Niners are.

Brandon Thomas: Because the Niners are pretty deep, they can afford to stash guys away for a year. Thomas was a possible first rounder before he got hurt and I like draft him as a potential Iupati replacement next year if the latter gets expensive.

The Niners have a lot of picks left but those guys aren't likely to make an impact on the team this year.

   7961. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 10, 2014 at 01:12 AM (#4703905)
I found out where "Factory of Sadness" comes from.
   7962. steagles Posted: May 10, 2014 at 11:04 AM (#4703995)
not a big fan of what the eagles did on day 2.

they panicked in trading up to get jordan matthews. personally, i liked cody latimer and allen robinson more than him at WR, but i'm okay with him as a player. i just think that wasn't an ideal use of resources.

i don't think they got enough for louis nix. houston was trading up for the player, not the pick, and i think you needed to make them pay a much higher premium to do it. that's especially true if the eagles can't get a good haul for today's 1st pick.

josh huff, again i don't think that was a great use of resources. i'm okay with the player (i actually think he has a lot of hines ward in his game), but with as many WRs as are still on the board, i think trading down would have been better.


also, in terms of draft strategy, i think they're starting to go a little too far out on a limb with their picks this year. it's okay to pick guys you like, or guys who fit your system, but i think you put a target on your back when you start to reach with every pick you make.
   7963. steagles Posted: May 10, 2014 at 11:46 AM (#4704026)
and i like how today is shaping up. a lot of interesting LB and DL.

at LB, you have christian jones, khairi fortt, devon kennard, shane skov, jordan zumwalt.
at DL, you have brent urban, taylor hart, daquan jones.

i think you can probably wait on a LB until round 7. you might not get the #1 guy on your list doing that, but like TE last year, i'm pretty sure someone decent is going to be available.

i'd probably take one of the lineman sooner than later. you could probably trade down and still get one. or take a DB early in the 4th round and either trade back into the 4th or try to wait it out and get one with the 1st pick in the 5th.
   7964. steagles Posted: May 10, 2014 at 02:40 PM (#4704094)
or take a DB early in the 4th round and either trade back into the 4th or try to wait it out and get one with the 1st pick in the 5th.
so, yep. jaylen watkins in the 4th, taylor hart in the 5th.

i'm pretty okay with that.


2 picks left (1 in the 5th, 1 in the 7th). i'd say a LB and another DB would be ideal. or maybe an offensive lineman. don't think RB should be a priority, but if it is, i like storm johnson and damien williams.
   7965. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 10, 2014 at 03:50 PM (#4704158)
I know it's hard for fans to wrap their minds around after 40 years of excellence, but the people presently running the Steelers have no idea what the hell they're doing. The team is going to spectacularly crater the moment Roethlisberger leaves the lineup.
   7966. DA Baracus Posted: May 10, 2014 at 06:48 PM (#4704213)
the people presently running the Steelers have no idea what the hell they're doing.


The Steelers had a nice draft.
   7967. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 10, 2014 at 06:57 PM (#4704219)
They had no such thing. They needed help at every position except LB, RB and WR*, and so what do they invest most of their draft in..?

* To be fair, nobody needs help at RB.
   7968. DA Baracus Posted: May 10, 2014 at 09:25 PM (#4704268)
Drafting for need is how you wind up with a crappy team. Like how the Steelers have drafted in recent years.
   7969. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 10, 2014 at 09:48 PM (#4704273)
Drafting for need makes perfectly good sense in the NFL except at the top of the draft. The talent level is bunched closely enough together that you definitely can target positions (which is one reason why there are so many draft-day trades in the NFL, and not just in the first round.)

The Steelers drafted a RB and a WR high because they wanted a RB and a WR, not because those guys were clearly the best player on the board at the time.

I concede your point where Ryan Shazier is concerned. The Steelers like him and thought he was the BPA; I don't like him and will be shocked if he succeeds in the NFL.

   7970. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 10, 2014 at 10:46 PM (#4704286)
More openly gay players were selected in the draft than Texas Longhorns.
   7971. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 10, 2014 at 11:08 PM (#4704290)
I don't envy the Rams if (as is likely) the time shortly comes that they have to release Sam, who probably isn't an NFL-caliber player.
   7972. steagles Posted: May 11, 2014 at 07:42 AM (#4704322)
pretty happy with day 3 for the eagles. jaylen watkins has a lot of things going in his favor. taylor hart is a pretty prototypical 3-4 end. beau allen should be able to push damion square in training camp, if not beat him out for a roster spot. ed reynolds seems like just a guy, but i really like all of the other players the eagles picked, even if i'm not overly enamoured with some of the moves they made to get there.
I don't envy the Rams if (as is likely) the time shortly comes that they have to release Sam, who probably isn't an NFL-caliber player.
the rams drafted him when every other team already passed on him at least a half-dozen times. if they wind up cutting him at some point, they shouldn't get any flack for it.
   7973. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: May 11, 2014 at 08:02 AM (#4704324)
I don't envy the Rams if (as is likely) the time shortly comes that they have to release Sam, who probably isn't an NFL-caliber player.


I think if the perception is that he was given a fair shot to make the team, and doesn't, well...that's how it goes.

Personally, I think he'll end up being one of those guys who make the team but rarely starts, gets 10-12 plays off the bench, has a bit of a fan following, and is out of the league in 1-2 years.

Basically, he'll be Munenori Kawasaki.
   7974. Howie Menckel Posted: May 11, 2014 at 11:16 AM (#4704399)

"More openly gay players were selected in the draft than Texas Longhorns."

if only there were a snappy, familiar, vulgar, offensive, rhyming headline to be made from this fact...


   7975. SteveF Posted: May 11, 2014 at 05:05 PM (#4704576)
if only there were a snappy, familiar, vulgar, offensive, rhyming headline to be made from this fact...

...and you ain't got no horns, boy.
   7976. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 12, 2014 at 09:29 AM (#4704816)

I don't envy the Rams if (as is likely) the time shortly comes that they have to release Sam, who probably isn't an NFL-caliber player.


I think he probably is as a pass-rushing specialist, but the Rams are stacked on the D-Line, its hard to see how he makes their roster.
   7977. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 12, 2014 at 09:44 AM (#4704838)
Well, all right, but there are 31 teams that disagree with you about that.

I imagine you may be right insofar as if he works hard and practices adequately in camp and the Rams release him anyway because their d-line is crowded, Fisher and friends may pass word through the grapevine that he's worth a look. But, delicate as it is to raise this issue, there likely aren't many teams besides the Jets that will be inclined to invite a media circus to town over a marginal pass rusher.*

It's in a (hilariously ironic) way similar to the Tebow situation, where a use might have been found for Tebow in an alternate universe where employing him didn't invoke a swarm of media locusts descending upon your stadium.

*Though there are teams like the Jaguars and Buccaneers and Raiders and Bills that might well regard any attention as good attention.
   7978. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 12, 2014 at 10:20 AM (#4704880)
Well, all right, but there are 31 teams that disagree with you about that.


You admit yourself that the media circus is what is making teams wary of drafting him, not 100% his talent so I'm not sure how we can say teams passing on him is evidence he isn't an NFL-caliber player. Before he came out people were saying he was a 3rd-5th round talent.
   7979. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 12, 2014 at 10:30 AM (#4704890)
That's a mischaracterization. Before the combine, which he bombed, people were saying he was a 3rd-5th round talent. Regardless of whether he'd come out or not, he was in the 7th/undrafted neighborhood--though he was definitely going to get invites to camp from several teams, because no matter how bad your combine was being SEC DPOY makes you worth a look.

I think the Rams tossed a 7th round pick his way because he's local and it's good PR. If he makes the team, great, but 7th rounders rarely do and the media circus will likely be gone by season's start.

Actually, come to think of it, the most likely outcome here is that he goes to the Rams' practice squad. Maybe someone will sign him off it sometime during the season, but I doubt it. At this point we just have to wait and see how he performs in camp.
   7980. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 12, 2014 at 11:54 AM (#4704988)
I think the Rams tossed a 7th round pick his way because he's local and it's good PR. If he makes the team, great, but 7th rounders rarely do and the media circus will likely be gone by season's start.

But, delicate as it is to raise this issue, there likely aren't many teams besides the Jets that will be inclined to invite a media circus to town over a marginal pass rusher.*

You're kind of contradicting yourself here on whether there will be a "media circus".
   7981. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 12, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4705002)
Very well, I will acknowledge that I don't know what I am talking about. Unfortunately I cannot delete the posts.
   7982. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 12, 2014 at 12:25 PM (#4705036)
Sam has the #2 selling jersey among all rookies this week. #1 is Johnny Manziel, who is the hottest selling jersey among all NFL players this week.
   7983. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 12, 2014 at 01:44 PM (#4705130)
Well, all right, but there are 31 teams that disagree with you about that.

Did I miss something that decreed the draft and all GMs infallible?

If he makes the team, great, but 7th rounders rarely do

I don't think this is anywhere near true. Most draft picks make the team these days, AFAIK. And a fair number of undrafted guys litter rosters all over the place.
   7984. DA Baracus Posted: May 12, 2014 at 02:26 PM (#4705205)
There were 47 players taken in the 7th round last year, they all were on a roster: 35 of them were on an active roster, 12 were on IR or the practice squad.
   7985. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 12, 2014 at 03:30 PM (#4705264)
in its little corner of the world the packers drafting jared abbrederis out of wisconsin sent the local fans in a tizzy

kid walked on to wisconsin to become one of hte best receivers in the big ten and now gets a chance to catch passes from aaron rodgers. and be paid to do it!
   7986. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 12, 2014 at 03:39 PM (#4705270)
in its little corner of the world the packers drafting jared abbrederis out of wisconsin sent the local fans in a tizzy

For some reason, the Bears signing Jordan Lynch as an UDFA was good enough for the top story on trib.com yesterday. He's switching from QB to RB, so this could be an interesting experiment in how Tebow's career maybe could have gone differently.
   7987. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: May 12, 2014 at 04:00 PM (#4705287)
in its little corner of the world the packers drafting jared abbrederis out of wisconsin sent the local fans in a tizzy

Maybe it's because his name was memorable, but I remember him making big plays when I watched.
   7988. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 12, 2014 at 04:12 PM (#4705293)
ed

abbrederis ate up the ohio state corner who also was drafted in the first round. rang up more than 200 yards against him with a pretty pedestrian qb throwing the ball.

he's not strong and he's not that fast but he's smart, he runs precision routes and is tough as shoe leather. concussion prone though. i think if anything derails his career it will be that because otherwise the kid has kept proving everyone wrong at each level.
   7989. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: May 12, 2014 at 05:28 PM (#4705345)
Harveys, what are your thoughts about Chris Borland?
   7990. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 14, 2014 at 06:25 AM (#4725756)
Chuck Noll died last night.

When I first started watching football with my dad in 1989 and he told me about how Chuck Noll was their coach through the glory years in the 1970s, that made him seem impossibly old to me--I was surprised some years later to come to understand that Noll wasn't that old at all, and that he walked away from coaching for good before he turned 60. Noll still being around in 1989 is like Belichick still being around in 2015.
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