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Monday, January 21, 2013

OT: NHL is finally back thread

Now that the season has finally started it’s time to break from the NFL thread.

odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: January 21, 2013 at 01:09 PM | 1685 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hockey, nhl, ot

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   301. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 13, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4441629)
I am a little worried about this Hawks/Wings series, even though the Hawks handled them pretty well in the regular season. The Hawks tend to struggle against teams with actual skill, but I'm not sure if they'll be able to keep up with the Hawks speed.

Is that 4th Hawks supposed to be Wings? The Wings just struggle with the Hawks' speed. The Ducks were a perfect matchup for Detroit, so that rational side isn't worried about the Wings. The irrational side is though. In spite of his (or the teams' success), I'm not worried about Howard stealing the series, and that is the Wings' best shot, IMO.
   302. zack Posted: May 13, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4441664)
The 'hawks could easily lose, but the Dead Things scare me less than any other team still remaining. The recipe for defeating the 'hawks is to use a 2-man forecheck to generate garbage goals and abuse the refs unwillingness to cause obstruction to slow them down. The Wings, being built and trained to dominate teams, will play them straight up. If the 'hawks play to their ability they should win. Knock on wood.

Let's hope the Sharks can at least take a pound of flesh from the Kings.
   303. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 13, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4441666)
They're the Sharks, so they'll probably get swept.
   304. Chris Fluit Posted: May 13, 2013 at 01:31 PM (#4441702)
I agree with Zack, and I'm a Red Wings fan. The Ducks were a great matchup for them; the Hawks are not. It's the NHL so anything can happen but it would take divine intervention for the Wings to win. I'm hoping for the huge upset but I'm not counting on it or calling for it.
   305. zack Posted: May 13, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4441728)
What took the Rangers so long in bringing up Mats Zuccarello? Did they lose him to the KHL and have to resign him, or was that their idea? I love that he's currently doubling up the combined points of Nash and Richards.
   306. zack Posted: May 13, 2013 at 02:21 PM (#4441775)
The Ducks were a great matchup for them; the Hawks are not.

On the other hand, 3 of the 4 games this season went to OT. And Howard is certainly capable of shutting them down for a series.
   307. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 13, 2013 at 02:51 PM (#4441807)
FWIW, Hawks also won the last 3 matchup between the teams last season. And the non-OT game was one of those laughers the Hawks had this year.
   308. zack Posted: May 13, 2013 at 07:22 PM (#4442079)
I see Boston is going for the tried and true "make it a shitshow!" strategy.
   309. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: May 13, 2013 at 09:37 PM (#4442198)
I keep my eye on the Leafs because Phil Kessel is one of my favorite players in the league...

... Is their best defensive pairing really ####### Dion Phaneuf & Carl Gunnarson?
   310. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 13, 2013 at 09:41 PM (#4442202)
The only question here is whether Boston will win within the first five minutes of OT, or in triple OT. There's no in between. It's not enough for the Maple Leafs to lose; they have to rip their fans' hearts out and eat them bite by bite like the dude from Last of the Mohicans.

Wait, there's another unanswered question here: Are the Maple Leafs the Vikings of the NHL, or are the Vikings the Maple Leafs of the NFL? I'm not sure.
   311. Obo Posted: May 13, 2013 at 09:46 PM (#4442208)
Dunno about the Vikings but as a longtime Leaf fan I can assure you that they generally get nowhere near far enough to rip anyone's heart out regardless of circumstances. As for the upcoming OT, any old bounce and they're through (in both senses).
   312. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 13, 2013 at 09:47 PM (#4442209)
If you told me at the beginning of the series, as a Leafs fan, that they get to OT in game 7 against the Bruins...I would have begged for that result.

   313. Flynn Posted: May 13, 2013 at 09:54 PM (#4442216)
LOL LEAFS.
   314. Obo Posted: May 13, 2013 at 10:07 PM (#4442235)
Yeah, lol leafs.
   315. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: May 13, 2013 at 10:07 PM (#4442236)
Ouch. Ouch.
   316. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 13, 2013 at 10:40 PM (#4442255)
Can't help but feel for the Leaf fans, that's a real kick in the nuts. That was the Bruin season in one game though, alternating the awful and the brilliant and Bergeron and Rask saving their bacon when it counts.
   317. Famous Original Joe C Posted: May 13, 2013 at 10:58 PM (#4442263)
[316] Ditto, down to the word.
   318. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 14, 2013 at 12:15 AM (#4442304)
I kinda think the Pittsburgh-Ottawa series will likely decide the East; if Pittsburgh wins that series they'll probably win the conference finals, and if Ottawa wins that series they'll probably lose the conference finals to the New York-Boston winner.

The West is simpler, Chicago's going to win it unless they run into a scorching hot goalie.
   319. Greg K Posted: May 14, 2013 at 04:22 AM (#4442363)
Wow. I really thought the Leafs had lost the power to depress me. I suppose that never goes away.
   320. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 14, 2013 at 09:01 AM (#4442402)
The Bruin-Ranger series should be a fun one. You've got two goalies capable of being top notch and both teams have key scorers who have been quiet so far. I don't think there is anything predictable about this series. Not sure how the Rangers health is but if the Bruins are without Seidenberg that's a big blow. He's a rock.
   321. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 14, 2013 at 06:53 PM (#4443096)
Apparwntly ovi is saying that there seems to be some conspiracy that took them to game 7. I really hate that guy, he needs tonlearn more then offense and i hope he gets hurt crosby style
   322. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 14, 2013 at 06:56 PM (#4443098)
Almost every series Washington has played in the Ovechkin era has gone seven (and they've lost most of them). When the human mind recognizes a pattern it doesn't like, it's pretty standard for it to attribute it to a conspiracy.

Ovechkin ######## about officiating is pretty LOL. Nobody in the league gets calls by diving more than he does except Evgeni Malkin (who is the Gretzky of diving, bar none).

In six years of the Ovechkin era, Washington has won its division five times (and earned 92 points and the 5 seed the other time), including the 1 seed twice, and has yet to reach a conference final, in fact has only escaped the first round three times. Ovechkin has (or rather will soon have) three Hart trophies during that time.
   323. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 14, 2013 at 07:01 PM (#4443101)
Ovechkin ######## about officiating is pretty LOL. Nobody in the league gets calls by diving more than he does except Evgeni Malkin (who is the Gretzky of diving, bar none).

As a Kings fan, I'd like to nominate Dustin Brown. He's absolutely shameless.

Anyway, off to Staples. This would be a good time for the Sharks to remember they are the Sharks.

   324. Steve Treder Posted: May 14, 2013 at 07:27 PM (#4443115)
Anyway, off to Staples. This would be a good time for the Sharks to remember they are the Sharks.

Actually, this would be a terrible time for that.

Care for a friendly wager on this series, RiMB?
   325. DA Baracus Posted: May 14, 2013 at 07:39 PM (#4443123)
In six years of the Ovechkin era, Washington has won its division five times (and earned 92 points and the 5 seed the other time), including the 1 seed twice, and has yet to reach a conference final, in fact has only escaped the first round three times. Ovechkin has (or rather will soon have) three Hart trophies during that time.


A by product of playing in a crap division. They'd never win the division or get a 1 seed if they played elsewhere.
   326. Snowboy Posted: May 14, 2013 at 07:54 PM (#4443130)
A by product of playing in a crap division. They'd never win the division or get a 1 seed if they played elsewhere.


Bingo. Playing constantly against Florida, Atlanta, Greensboro, Vicksburg, and every where else Bettmann wants to try to develop a market will get you some wins.
   327. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 14, 2013 at 07:57 PM (#4443134)
Incidentally, I wish I could put money on "Fleury will be starting again before this series ends."
   328. Snowboy Posted: May 14, 2013 at 08:33 PM (#4443162)
Incidentally, I wish I could put money on "Fleury will be starting again before this series ends."


No kidding? You could pay off the mortgage with that one.
What about "it will rain one day between now and September?" can you find anyone to cover that bet?

Vokoun is a backup at this point in his career, and not just because he is on a good team. Even if the Pens roll to a sweep, they have to switch back to Fleury at some point.
   329. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 14, 2013 at 08:39 PM (#4443166)
Vokoun is in fact not significantly better or worse than Fleury.
   330. Famous Original Joe C Posted: May 14, 2013 at 08:44 PM (#4443169)
i hope he gets hurt crosby style


Awesome, great sentiment.
   331. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 14, 2013 at 09:18 PM (#4443187)
Actually, this would be a terrible time for that.

Care for a friendly wager on this series, RiMB?


Sure. Name it.

Edit: Going into Staples now, I don't get much service in there. So Steve, whatever you want to bet, I accept. Probably won't see this until after the game.
   332. Steve Treder Posted: May 14, 2013 at 11:04 PM (#4443292)
Sure. Name it.

Edit: Going into Staples now, I don't get much service in there. So Steve, whatever you want to bet, I accept. Probably won't see this until after the game.


Understood.

How about this: Kings win the series, Steve sponsors whichever currently-unsponsored bb-ref page Robert specifies. Sharks win, vice-versa.
   333. Steve Treder Posted: May 15, 2013 at 12:38 AM (#4443335)
I want to shoot Jonathan Quick.
   334. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 15, 2013 at 01:03 AM (#4443340)
How about this: Kings win the series, Steve sponsors whichever currently-unsponsored bb-ref page Robert specifies. Sharks win, vice-versa.

Done.

Love me some Slava Voynov, even with the porn stache.
   335. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 15, 2013 at 01:07 AM (#4443341)
My daughter's analysis (she's eight): "This will be easy. These guys aren't as good as St. Louis." I think I might agree. We'll see, if Quick plays like that, I like our chances.
   336. zack Posted: May 15, 2013 at 09:28 AM (#4443432)
See, I want San Jose to win, because I'd much, much rather face them if the 'hawks get that far, but then I am forced to remember that Wilson traded for that piece of garbage.
   337. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: May 16, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4444695)
I must say last night's game assuaged some of my fears. The Hawks must have had possession of the puck for about 85% of the second period.
   338. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 16, 2013 at 03:30 PM (#4444979)
A little conflicted about the Stoll injury. The obvious take is that Stoll is very valuable and will be missed. Good faceoff man, good penalty killer, doesn't make dumb mistakes. On the other hand, the Kings aren't scoring much and I can't remember the last time Stoll or anyone from that third line (King, Lewis) scored a goal or even did anything that mildly threatened that they were going to score a goal. Maybe getting Richardson back in there, more time for Toffoli, shake things up a little. Can't rely on Quick to be superhuman all the time, you've got to light the lamp at some point.
   339. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: May 16, 2013 at 04:19 PM (#4445042)
The US beat Russia 8-3(!) in the quarterfinals of the World Hockey Championships today. Wow.
   340. Steve Treder Posted: May 16, 2013 at 04:58 PM (#4445112)
Can't rely on Quick to be superhuman all the time

From your lips to the God of Hockey's ears.
   341. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 17, 2013 at 03:29 AM (#4445508)
What a night at Staples. I'm going in late tomorrow.

It was a boarderline genius move by Sutter to get Toffoli into these games. He barely played down the stretch, then suddenly is inserted after the first few playoff games and is a force to be reckoned with.
   342. Snowboy Posted: May 17, 2013 at 04:36 AM (#4445510)
That was some incredible, champion-type stuff from LA tonight.
Trailing in the third, then getting a powerplay, is fortuitous.
Then quickly getting another penalty, to go 5-3, is Hollywood.

But then (even then) you still have to execute. And if you do, that's Hollywood x 12.
Most teams get too cute in a 5-3, waiting and passing forever, wanting to see at least two bodies sprawled on the ice, and the net looking as wide as an end zone, before they shoot.

LA went right for it, and after they scored one they kept their foot stamped on the gas to take advantage of a 5-on-4.

Kings lead the series. Meantime Niemi did not look exactly rattled or broken at the end of it, and there are a lot of skilled players on San Jose. Every game for LA, from here until they face an Eastern Conference team, will be like running uphill and in the sand.
   343. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 17, 2013 at 08:26 AM (#4445538)
I can't get over how well the young defensemen played for the Bruins. Hamilton isn't really a surprise, he had a great year but Bartkowski and Krug really stepped up. I don't know how long this can go on because Chara is in fact human and 30 minutes a night is going to blow him up sooner than later.
   344. zack Posted: May 17, 2013 at 10:20 AM (#4445612)
Losing on a puck-over-glass. Ouch.

The US beat Russia 8-3(!) in the quarterfinals of the World Hockey Championships today. Wow.

While Canada was eliminated by Sweden. Pretty impressive for a team that has only 3 players I picked to be part of the Olympic team (though more might actually show up, I'm just a guy obvs). They have a good shot at 2nd place, having to only beat (undefeated) Switzerland. Why couldn't they have done this last year when the results were heavily weighted into the Olympic seeding? They ended up ranked 7th (and there are only 7 big hockey countries), and so have ended up in the group of death*.

*As much as such a thing exists in hockey.
   345. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 17, 2013 at 01:17 PM (#4445797)
Reflecting on #338, the Stoll injury played out pretty much like I expected. Indeed there were some offensive contributions from the guys outside the top 6 forwards - Richardson, Toffoli and Lewis all contributed to goals. But the defense was much shakier and the Kings got killed on faceoffs. I think I liked it better the old way. Get well soon Jarret.
   346. Famous Original Joe C Posted: May 17, 2013 at 02:30 PM (#4445878)
Every game for LA, from here until they face an Eastern Conference team, will be like running uphill and in the sand.


Wait, what? Do you really think that whichever Eastern Conference team makes the Finals is going to be some kind of pushover? The Penguins and Bruins are at least as good as any non-Hawks Western team, and the Rangers can be as well with a hot Lundqvist.
   347. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 17, 2013 at 02:37 PM (#4445890)
Lundqvist scares the hell out of me. He was amazing last night.
   348. Steve Treder Posted: May 17, 2013 at 04:45 PM (#4446027)
I fear that those final two minutes of game 2 will prove to be the fulcrum on which this series turned. The swing for the Sharks from coming back home having achieved the 1-1 split, and having done so in stirring come-from-behind fashion against a goalie who's owned you, to suddenly coming home down 0-2 and having gotten there with a gut punch at the finish, is flipping enormous.
   349. Snowboy Posted: May 17, 2013 at 08:12 PM (#4446215)
Wait, what? Do you really think that whichever Eastern Conference team makes the Finals is going to be some kind of pushover? The Penguins and Bruins are at least as good as any non-Hawks Western team, and the Rangers can be as well with a hot Lundqvist.


No, I didn't mean it that way. If/when they finally do make it to the Finals, it will not get any easier, you are right on that. But there is a certain press of the reset button once you win your conference. You make it to the top of the hill, and you find out who your opponent is, and then you duke it out.

I also cannot believe how well Boston's defense is playing. I think Chara played 38 minutes last game. That was Krug's first ever goal, and he beat Lundqvist clean. Ference and Redden may come back, but I bet Seidenberg has torn something and will not be back. I don't know about Boychuk, he has really stepped up but that seemed like a real grimace on his face on the bench at the end of last game after going awkwardly into the boards.

Erik Karlsson does not look like a Norris trophy winner out there. Can't tell is it's the psychological damage of an on-ice achilles injury (and that he'll never return to form?) or if it's just not playing most of the year, but Crosby walked around him as if he was a 7th defenseman. His passes are terrible, which I think is just the rust, but he is bad in his own end also, and basically a liability.

Meanwhile Vokoun is one of Ottawa's best hopes.
   350. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 19, 2013 at 03:55 AM (#4446861)
Not surprised the Sharks won Game 3, we'll see if they can truly make it a series on Tuesday. I'd be fine with a little more 5 on 5 at the end of these games. Whistles have essentially decided the last two games which is never any fun.
   351. Famous Original Joe C Posted: May 19, 2013 at 08:49 AM (#4446880)
[349] Snowboy, got it, thanks for the explanation. I agree.
   352. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: May 20, 2013 at 09:18 PM (#4448152)
It appears that the key to beating the Hawks is to constantly take penalties. This PP is absolute garbage.
   353. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 20, 2013 at 09:54 PM (#4448188)
Seidenberg is practicing again, but who knows if that means anything. Chara is a beast.
   354. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 20, 2013 at 11:25 PM (#4448289)
I know that if I were a Hawks fan I'd be pretty pissed about them wiping away that goal. That seemed like BS to me.
   355. BurlyBuehrle Posted: May 21, 2013 at 03:26 AM (#4448363)
I am. I was.
   356. BurlyBuehrle Posted: May 21, 2013 at 04:03 AM (#4448365)
I am. I was. It was.

The Hawks need to shake up the lineup. There is no way 26 (Handzus) should be out there. He simply can't keep up with Detroit's forwards -- any of them. He looks like he's skating through wet sand. Also, for all the talk about how Bolland was going to help the team, he hasn't been good. He gets trashed at the faceoff dot, took a horrible penalty in Game 2, and hasn't really contributed much of anything.

The areas where the Hawks have lost this series thus far -- (1) faceoff dot: directly contributes to their power play difficulties, as they are always chasing 200 feet off the initial draw or after a goalie cover, rather than getting right into their offense. This forces them to enter the zone more often, which gives the killing Wings more chances to disrupt said entry; (2) taking dumb penalties: (cough Shaw cough) look, the Chicago kill is amazing, but you're not going to score too often short-handed; (3) Jimmy Howard standing on his head: 'nuff said; (4) luck: a tough call went against the Hawks, plus they hit 2-3 posts tonight. Dominated play in the 1st period and for stretches of the 3rd, but were unable to convert.

Vegas has the Hawks still at even money to win the series, but obviously, a win on Thursday is a near must.

BTW, what a game on Sunday night in Ottawa!! I haven't seen a prettier goal in crunch time than that equalizer from Alfredson. Wow. I'm rooting for Ottawa for no other reason other than I just like when the Canadian teams win. Their fans are amazing. The throngs of Leafs fans packed into a public square for a Game 5 of a *conference quarterfinal series??* No American team has that.

EDIT: EDIT FAIL on 355. Oh well. Not a high volume thread, so I hope I'll be forgiven.
   357. zonk Posted: May 21, 2013 at 09:06 AM (#4448433)
WTF WTF WTF

I really hate being hungover AND angry at work... I'm not ready to have nothing but the Cubs to watch.
   358. JL Posted: May 21, 2013 at 11:55 AM (#4448621)
As a Wings fan, I saw plenty of those goals wiped out in the past when it was called on Holmstrom, so not a lot of tears here. Interestingly, NBC thought it was clearly the wrong call, while CBC thought it was correct. Rule 69.3 says:

If an attacking player establishes a significant position within the goal crease, so as to obstruct the goalkeeper’s vision and impair his ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.

For this purpose, a player “establishes a significant position within the crease” when, in the Referee’s judgment, his body, or a substantial portion thereof, is within the goal crease for more than an instantaneous period of time.


Under that, I think it was the right call, though I really would not have argued it had they allowed it.

I still think Chicago wins this series because they are just so deep, plus the Hawks left a couple of shots off the iron that really could have gone in. But I am hoping I end up wrong.
   359. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 22, 2013 at 04:02 AM (#4449429)
However flimsy, at least the Hawks' lost goal had some rationale behind it. The Kings lost a goal thanks to a ref blowing his whistle for no reason as the puck is crossing the goal line. Awesome!

Sharks probably deserved to win but that was still tough to take. Anybody's series now. The Kings look completely clueless on offense. It probably doesn't help that Sutter seems to pledge before every game to make sure every forward gets to play on a line with every other forward at some point during the game.
   360. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 22, 2013 at 08:17 PM (#4450089)
It seems like every time the Penguins give up a really stupid goal, Letang is nearby.
   361. BurlyBuehrle Posted: May 24, 2013 at 01:47 AM (#4451143)
I still think Chicago wins this series because they are just so deep, plus the Hawks left a couple of shots off the iron that really could have gone in. But I am hoping I end up wrong.


You look wrong to me. Much to my chagrin.

I wonder if all the goalposts for the Blackhawks (two more tonight) are due to Howard being in their head -- they think a perfect shot...and only a perfect shot...will beat Howard at this point. As a result, they're aiming just a smidge outside, rather than just putting pucks on net and fighting for rebounds, etc.

I don't know. I didn't feel like Detroit outplayed the Hawks tonight. Jimmy Howard was just very, very good. If Jimmy Howard continues to play this way...well, let's just say it this way: Detroit will win nine more games before next season starts.
   362. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 24, 2013 at 02:42 AM (#4451156)
Fun night at Staples. Kings dominated, they seemed to carry over their momentum from the end of Game 4. The game was scoreless for way too long though. Demoting Brown to the third line and going with Clifford was a pretty bold move but it seemed to have worked. Always loved Penner on the second line with Richards and Carter, I don't know why it isn't always that way.

I hope they can get it done in San Jose on Sunday and get a long rest. I think Wings-Hawks is going seven.
   363. BurlyBuehrle Posted: May 24, 2013 at 03:49 AM (#4451157)
I hope they can get it done in San Jose on Sunday and get a long rest. I think Wings-Hawks is going seven.


I think the Kings will get it done on Sunday. I hope you're right about the latter, for obvious reasons.
   364. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 24, 2013 at 10:14 AM (#4451219)
I didn't feel like Detroit outplayed the Hawks tonight. Jimmy Howard was just very, very good.

They didn't. Same thing for game 3. Game 1 was all Hawks, game 2 all Wings. Howard has been the best player this series, so he's essentially stolen both games in Detroit. Toews's frustrations got the better of him last night, and that unfortunately was the difference in the game. The series is still winnable, but I don't know if Coach Q is the right guy for the job - from afar he doesn't seem like the steady hand type. Completely jumbling the lines (Handzus with Hossa and Sharp?) and the PP (Rosival instead of Leddy?) in ways that didn't make a lot of sense isn't helping.
   365. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 24, 2013 at 10:26 AM (#4451226)
The Blackhawks have outplayed the Red Wings throughout the series, but I think it's now official that Jimmy Howard is this year's Hot Goalie. The Red Wings are probably going to the Finals.
   366. zack Posted: May 24, 2013 at 10:51 AM (#4451241)
If the Blackhawks are outplaying the Wings, it's not by a whole lot (and not at all in game 2). Howard has been sensational, but the Wings haven't let them set up the cycle more than a few times. They've also hit the post like 5 times in the last 2 games which doesn't help.

I also have no idea how they didn't get at least one penalty shot last night. If Saad getting hauled down from behind isn't one, then only going Last Boyscout on someone would be.
   367. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 24, 2013 at 10:55 AM (#4451244)
If the Blackhawks are outplaying the Wings, it's not by a whole lot (and not at all in game 2).

If you look at the corsi numbers I linked, it's surprising how much they favor the Hawks in games 3 and 4.
   368. zack Posted: May 24, 2013 at 11:05 AM (#4451249)
The aggregate corsi was only +5, which is nothing. At 5v5 it was better, but given how completely woeful the PP has been I'm not willing to just throw out special teams. And I bet the scoring chances aren't as far apart as corsi.
   369. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 24, 2013 at 11:32 AM (#4451286)
At 5v5 it was better, but given how completely woeful the PP has been I'm not willing to just throw out special teams.

Both teams have 1 PP goal. It wouldn't be crazy to say special teams has been essentially a draw.
   370. Steve Treder Posted: May 24, 2013 at 12:03 PM (#4451321)
Kings dominated, they seemed to carry over their momentum from the end of Game 4.

Too true. Unlike game 2, when it was almost exclusively the Jonathan Quick Show, the Kings outskated and outhit the Sharks pretty much all the way. Just as I feared, the Sharks blowing that lead in the final two minutes of Game 1 is now looming enormous. This doesn't look good.
   371. zack Posted: May 24, 2013 at 12:05 PM (#4451324)
In results, but not in process, since the Wings have been dangerous while the 'hawks can't even ####### set up in the ####### zone. I was referring only to how the special teams influence the total scoring chances in the series (and thus which team is outplaying the other), regardless.
   372. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: May 24, 2013 at 02:45 PM (#4451486)
This may be my angry/irrational side talking, but I think I'm back on the "fire Coach Q" bandwagon. The Stalberg stuff at the beginning of this series was ####### silly, and basically benching Kane during the 3rd period last night was ####### dumb.
   373. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 24, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4451513)
If they lose this series, I wouldn't be opposed to him getting canned but I don't think I'm be upset if they don't. 3 straight underachieving years.

In results, but not in process, since the Wings have been dangerous while the 'hawks can't even ####### set up in the ####### zone. I was referring only to how the special teams influence the total scoring chances in the series (and thus which team is outplaying the other), regardless.

Fair enough. It probably isn't a stretch to say the Hawks have had just as many, if not more, scoring chances short handed than with the advantage.
   374. JL Posted: May 24, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4451546)
This may be my angry/irrational side talking, but I think I'm back on the "fire Coach Q" bandwagon. The Stalberg stuff at the beginning of this series was ####### silly, and basically benching Kane during the 3rd period last night was ####### dumb.


Interesting. I can't stand Q, but I don't think he has been that bad (though I admittedly have not followed him that closely). I thought the Hawks played decent the last two games. He certainly had them motivated. I also thought the stretch passes last night were giving Detroit fits. If Howard is not playing so well, the Hawks likely have a couple of goals with those. Some of his adjustments have not worked, but I don't think he has been awful.
   375. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: May 24, 2013 at 04:54 PM (#4451602)
I think those long passes amounted to a ########### of a 3rd period for the Hawks. It seemed like Q was just out of ideas at that point and thought \"#### it, let's go for the Hail Mary."

I wouldn't fire him based on this series alone. The PP's basically been a mess for the last several years. He still has an infatuation with grinders like Shaw, Pisani, Carcillo, John Scott, and Bollig. And as Moses mentioned, three straight underachieving seasons. I mean, it's tough to call a President's Trophy-winning season an "underachieving" season, but I was expecting the Hawks to stay in the playoffs a bit longer (and of course they still may stick around a bit, they're not dead and buried).

I'd like a coach who's a better fit for the type of team we have. I don't think Q's that guy.
   376. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 24, 2013 at 05:47 PM (#4451630)
I'm wondering where Alain Vigneault will end up in the summer. His record is too strong to sit on the sidelines, and I blame the GM (Gillis) more than him for Vancouver's recent implosions. If Q gets fired, I wonder if AV ends up there.
   377. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 24, 2013 at 10:09 PM (#4451776)
I think it's really strange for Blackhawks fans to regard this as a failure of a season and want to fire their coach. From the perspective of an outsider who doesn't really care about any of the teams involved, the Detroit-Chicago series doesn't seem to be anything more interesting than a superior team running into a Hot Goalie. It happens pretty near every year and I don't think it's anything to make major changes to a Presidents-winning team over. But that's easy for me to say from over here.
   378. zack Posted: May 25, 2013 at 08:41 PM (#4452247)
I'm wondering where Alain Vigneault will end up in the summer. His record is too strong to sit on the sidelines, and I blame the GM (Gillis) more than him for Vancouver's recent implosions. If Q gets fired, I wonder if AV ends up there.


Oh sweet god no. AV is a terrible coach. Fortunately the Blackhawks' management hates the Vancouver management as much as the players hate their players.

As for Q, I think you could do much, much, much worse. He has his obnoxious tendencies, but so does every coach. I wouldn't be mad if he was fired, but only because he's been in Chicago for 5 years already.
   379. zack Posted: May 25, 2013 at 08:50 PM (#4452253)
I wonder if someone is going to throw dumb money at Bryan Bickell. He deserves a nice pay day, since he took a 3-year league-minimum deal last time to make sure he'd get on the roster.
   380. Kiko Sakata Posted: May 25, 2013 at 08:55 PM (#4452256)
I think it's really strange for Blackhawks fans to regard this as a failure of a season and want to fire their coach. From the perspective of an outsider who doesn't really care about any of the teams involved, the Detroit-Chicago series doesn't seem to be anything more interesting than a superior team running into a Hot Goalie. It happens pretty near every year and I don't think it's anything to make major changes to a Presidents-winning team over. But that's easy for me to say from over here.


I live in Chicago and think this is pretty much spot on. The probability of the Blackhawks' next coach being better than Joel Quenneville seems really, really low to me.
   381. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 25, 2013 at 11:07 PM (#4452299)
I have similar feelings about Tortorella - I loathe the Rangers so I sure hope they fire him. He's abrasive as hell and definitely easier to admire from a distance, but as far as I can tell he's a very good coach. I don't honestly think the Rangers have been a tremendously talented team the last few years, to be going as far as they have.
   382. Snowboy Posted: May 26, 2013 at 02:57 AM (#4452323)
The Hawks were not hitting, and they were not backchecking hard enough.
They corrected the first part last night, but they need to keep working on the second part.
Quenneville got too cute, and whoever talked him into tonight's changes (or if it was him?) deserves credit: maybe it was the desperation of being down 3-1, or whatever, but ride your number 1 line of Toews-Kane-Sharpe, and play Keith and Seabrook together.
Hossa is a fearsome player, but only inside the blue line, and hitting is not his game (and neither of "the Patricks" is much known for hitting either, but at least they will hustle back and stick-check) and he deserves to be dropped down in the playoffs. (But that's important for CHI anyway, they need Handzus to be alive, and in general second line scoring; it can't be all on Toews, and that's how he was feeling.)
I somehow knew Shaw was going to have a big game. I knew Chicago wasn't done, and a guy like him would be part of the push back.

I don't agree that Jimmy Howard has been terrific in this series. Chicago has shot is low into his pads, or right into his other equipment. He's been slightly better than Crawford, but still behind any goalie in either LA series, or either Boston series, and probably either Pittsburgh series so far, etc.

In NY, I think Torts wrung the most out of that gang that he could. Too soft this year, as a team. It's usually the coach that goes (fired) before the GM, and it could end up that way in this case. That would be too bad for Tortorella, because I agree that he is a good coach. But...but: when you have to bench a player like Brad Richards, you also have to look in the mirror. If you can't figure out how to press the buttons, or energize, a great player like Richards, then maybe you can't coach at this level?

Vigneault getting fired was a bad move. He coached that team beautifully, and they just didn't hit the back of the net in the first round and got bounced. He will get another job, or three. But the Canucks GM will not, once they eventually let him go. It's a farce in Vancouver, a bunch of players who hook and grab and whine and dive.

EDIT: tonight/last night: tomato/tomatoe, it's late here, talking about Saturday.

   383. BurlyBuehrle Posted: May 26, 2013 at 03:51 AM (#4452325)

I don't agree that Jimmy Howard has been terrific in this series. Chicago has shot is low into his pads, or right into his other equipment. He's been slightly better than Crawford, but still behind any goalie in either LA series, or either Boston series, and probably either Pittsburgh series so far, etc.


Couldn't disagree more. For the Hawks to score 2 goals in 3 games (by far their lowest output of any 3-game stretch all season), they either (a) stopped generating scoring chances or (b) stopped converting the scoring chances they did generate into goals. As Moses points out above (#364), their Corsi numbers demonstrated that they continued to generate chances against Howard in Games 3 & 4. During the regular season, the Blackhawks scored 149 goals; 2nd most in the NHL and by far the most in the West (Anaheim was next at 134). Considering that, it seems extremely unlikely that they suddenly forgot how to turn scoring chances into goals. It seems much more likely that something intervened, and that that something was Jimmy Howard.

They corrected the first part last night, but they need to keep working on the second part.


They haven't been a hitting team all year. I can't find the numbers, but I believe they were last in the NHL in hits. If you mean hitting when it matters, then we're in agreement.


EDIT: tonight/last night: tomato/tomatoe, it's late here, talking about Saturday.


=)
   384. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 26, 2013 at 11:03 AM (#4452377)
I think it's entirely possible Brad Richards has been injured and Tortorella has been protecting him, and/or Richards has been hiding his injury even from his own coaching and medical staff. Then again it's also possible he's just done.

The Boston-Pittsburgh series is the most interesting matchup in the playoffs so far for my money. Between the lingering hate of Matt Cooke and Pittsburgh for employing him and then both Iginla and Morrow rejecting trades to Boston because they liked their chances of winning the Cup better in Pittsburgh, Boston has no shortage of motivation for the series.

On one hand Pittsburgh's offensive skill makes them a challenge at all times; on the other hand Boston has a lot of defensive skill and should be able to lock them down and win the series if they play consistent sound fundamental hockey in their own zone and the neutral zone; on the third hand Boston hasn't been able to do that consistently all playoffs; on the fourth hand, Sidney Crosby.

I have absolutely no idea how that series is going to go. I could believe a sweep by Boston or a sweep by Pittsburgh or anything in between.
   385. zack Posted: May 26, 2013 at 02:18 PM (#4452445)
The Blackhawks have not hit anyone in 3 years, that is a ludicrous complaint. Hitting people does not open up the neutral zone.
   386. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 26, 2013 at 06:09 PM (#4452675)
Submitted for opinions: is the day going to come, some decades down the line, when checking is no longer allowed in hockey?
   387. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: May 26, 2013 at 06:16 PM (#4452681)
Yeah, when the Senior NHL comes into being.

No. They can legislate all sorts of types of hits, but clean hits that don't target the head will always be part of the game.

*cue the hairsplitters who see parallels between concussions and knee injuries (for example)*
   388. Steve Treder Posted: May 26, 2013 at 10:42 PM (#4452800)
Well, the Sharks just did what they needed to do, in workmanlike manner.

Still working uphill, of course, but anything can happen in a game seven.
   389. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 26, 2013 at 10:48 PM (#4452809)
On to Game 7!. I've never attended a Game 7 so that should be fun. Hopefully we'll win, but it really feels 50/50.

Tonight's game could have gone either way. Three posts in the first period for the Kings gave you the feeling it wouldn't be their night. Plus the stupid delay of game that made it 5-on-3 of course.
   390. Steve Treder Posted: May 26, 2013 at 10:55 PM (#4452812)
Yeah, those iron-clangers are basically just offensive bad luck. I really liked the Sharks effort tonight, but they'll need to bring all that and more in game seven down on your ice.
   391. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 26, 2013 at 11:06 PM (#4452817)
On to Game 7!. I've never attended a Game 7 so that should be fun. Hopefully we'll win, but it really feels 50/50.


You'll win. They're the Sharks.
   392. Steve Treder Posted: May 26, 2013 at 11:14 PM (#4452820)
You'll win. They're the Sharks.

Please don't remind me.
   393. steagles Posted: May 27, 2013 at 12:32 AM (#4452829)
I have absolutely no idea how that series is going to go. I could believe a sweep by Boston or a sweep by Pittsburgh or anything in between.
being a fan of a team that has gotten the best of both boston and pittsburgh in the playoffs over the last few years, i'd say that boston has the advantage. pittsburgh is, and always will be, mentally weak, so my money would be on boston finding a way to exploit that over a 7 game series.

   394. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 27, 2013 at 04:38 AM (#4452860)
You're welcome to your opinion of course, but that seems like a strange thing to say about a team that has recently won the Cup.

The Flyers particularly have definitely been inside their heads the past few years, so I can certainly see why you'd think that of them.

I see two extremely skilled teams, one of which (Pittsburgh) is prone to bad defensive/neutral zone mental lapses that lead to turnovers, and the other (Boston) that frequently seems to collectively sleepwalk through a period or two at a time. It'll be an interesting matchup.
   395. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: May 27, 2013 at 06:30 AM (#4452866)
If you go by how they matched up during the regular season, the Penguins have the advantage.

I hate the way they play. They run around taking cheap shots, then whine when their guys get hit. That series with the Flyers (Last year? The year before?) exposed them as a loathsome team.
   396. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 27, 2013 at 01:16 PM (#4453014)
I hate the way they play. They run around taking cheap shots, then whine when their guys get hit. That series with the Flyers (Last year? The year before?) exposed them as a loathsome team.


I'm curious about that--can you point out one instance of a cheap shot taken by a Penguin this playoffs? I can't remember one. They do whine, and they're world class divers, but the cheap shots thing I don't get. Even Matt Cooke pretty much stopped doling out cheap shots after the Savard cheap shot put his career one more errant elbow from being over.

In the Pittsburgh-Ottawa series the guy that was out of control was Chris Neil. Now he is loathesome. I'm not even certain Chris Simon didn't just change his last name after no one would employ him anymore.
   397. SteveF Posted: May 27, 2013 at 02:56 PM (#4453064)
Pittsburgh-Boston comes down to how much Pittsburgh wants it -- how willing they are to fight for pucks along the boards in their defensive end and clear out the Bruin's bigger bodies from the front of the net.

Boston doesn't have the offensive firepower to really match up, but they force you to pay a physical price (when they play well) in your own end. If Pittsburgh proves unwilling to pay that price as the series goes on, Boston will have a decent chance of scoring enough to win the 4-3 games this series is likely to feature.

I think Pittsburgh will be willing to pay that price in enough games to win the series.
   398. DA Baracus Posted: May 27, 2013 at 03:11 PM (#4453076)
I'm curious about that--can you point out one instance of a cheap shot taken by a Penguin this playoffs? I can't remember one.


Well there was this. And this was humorous.

Even Matt Cooke pretty much stopped doling out cheap shots after the Savard cheap shot put his career one more errant elbow from being over.


Tell that to Erik Karlsson.
   399. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 27, 2013 at 04:28 PM (#4453140)
Cooke is the greatest cheap shot artist in the history of the universe if he was able to do that on purpose.
   400. DA Baracus Posted: May 27, 2013 at 04:36 PM (#4453151)
Cooke is the greatest cheap shot artist in the history of the universe if he was able to do that on purpose.


This is Matt Cooke we are talking about. It's not impossible.
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