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Monday, January 21, 2013

OT: NHL is finally back thread

Now that the season has finally started it’s time to break from the NFL thread.

odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: January 21, 2013 at 01:09 PM | 1685 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hockey, nhl, ot

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   401. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: May 27, 2013 at 04:54 PM (#4453160)
I haven't been watching the Penguins this year, in the playoffs, yet.

I guess they've turned over a new leaf, and are no longer cheap shot artists who whine incessantly whenever one of their guys gets looked at cross-eyed.
   402. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 27, 2013 at 05:53 PM (#4453185)
Joe: They still incessantly whine, but I haven't seen much in the way of cheap shots from them. And the diving, ye gods, the diving.
   403. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 27, 2013 at 06:03 PM (#4453189)
Cooke is the greatest cheap shot artist in the history of the universe if he was able to do that on purpose.


The guy has a history of cheap shots, and then when something like that happens we are supposed to believe THAT one was an accident?

Sorry, but walk/talk/duck.
   404. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: May 27, 2013 at 07:24 PM (#4453218)
I think it's really strange for Blackhawks fans to regard this as a failure of a season and want to fire their coach. From the perspective of an outsider who doesn't really care about any of the teams involved, the Detroit-Chicago series doesn't seem to be anything more interesting than a superior team running into a Hot Goalie. It happens pretty near every year and I don't think it's anything to make major changes to a Presidents-winning team over. But that's easy for me to say from over here.

I'll wait until this series is over one way or the other to expound on this, but smart teams - and honestly, I do think the Hawks are a smart team - don't fire their coaches for one season, outside of extreme circumstances. If Q were to get fired, it's because the totality of the last 3 playoffs and previous 2 seasons outweighed the record pace of a shortened season. There are very specific criticisms of Q and how he uses this roster that could potentially be corrected with a new coaching staff. It's also worth nothing Bowman inherited Q, so I'm sure he wouldn't be too sentimental about 4 seasons ago to make a move if he thought it necessary.

Hossa is a fearsome player, but only inside the blue line, and hitting is not his game (and neither of "the Patricks" is much known for hitting either, but at least they will hustle back and stick-check)

Say what? Hossa is definitely the Hawks' bet backchecker, and while it's been nice to see Kane play some stick defense, it's not something he regularly does. The implication that Hossa doesn't hustle back or doesn't play defense all ice is absurd.

Vigneault getting fired was a bad move. He coached that team beautifully, and they just didn't hit the back of the net in the first round and got bounced. He will get another job, or three. But the Canucks GM will not, once they eventually let him go. It's a farce in Vancouver, a bunch of players who hook and grab and whine and dive.

Isn't that last sentence pretty much AV's fault? Again, if you think he's being fired for only this season, you're missing the bigger picture.

I'm curious about that--can you point out one instance of a cheap shot taken by a Penguin this playoffs? I can't remember one. They do whine, and they're world class divers, but the cheap shots thing I don't get. Even Matt Cooke pretty much stopped doling out cheap shots after the Savard cheap shot put his career one more errant elbow from being over.

I'm not as up on the East I should be, but I thought the Bruins were the class of the league in diving.
   405. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 27, 2013 at 07:59 PM (#4453236)
Hell Hossa is one of the better defensive forwards in the game, he isnt much of a hitter but uses his size to his advantage
   406. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 27, 2013 at 08:37 PM (#4453262)
one of the relations who is a hockey fan knows of my interest in numbers and shared that some guy named pascal dupuis set a career high in goals scored at age 33 and was on pace to set a new career high at age 34 and would have save for the shortened season. apparently all thanks to playing regularly next to Sidney Crosby.

that is really something
   407. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 27, 2013 at 08:43 PM (#4453267)
hey hockey fans, is there any advantage in hockey being left-handed?
   408. DA Baracus Posted: May 27, 2013 at 08:59 PM (#4453274)
that is really something


There's always a handful of guys who were (at best) decent players and get paired with the right guy and suddenly they're 30+ goal scorers. Dupuis scored 20 goals in Minnesota years ago. The bigger rags to riches was Chris Kunitz, nice player before this year, finished top 10 in goals this season on Crosby's line. James Neal was a nice high 20 goal scorer, plays alongside Malkin and nets 40 last year. See also: Matt Moulson, Johan Franzen and Mikael Samuelsson.
   409. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 27, 2013 at 10:02 PM (#4453306)
Kunitz is the guy who really benefited from playing with Crosby. He was leading the league in goals when Crosby went out injured and scored two goals the rest of the season (a month). He's a very good defensive forward who's pretty useless on offense--but *anyone* who plays with Sidney Crosby is going to look like an offensive star.

I love Pascal Dupuis. He gives every shift everything he has and plays competently in all phases of the game, and you can put him anywhere in the lineup you want and he'll quietly go out and produce. He's going to get dramatically overpaid in free agency this offseason and good for him, but I'm sad to see him go.

James Neal is a good shooter and brings nothing else to the table. The Penguins are badly overpaying him.

Of course that basically makes him Alex Ovechkin Lite, and not even that Lite...
   410. steagles Posted: May 27, 2013 at 10:18 PM (#4453313)
hey hockey fans, is there any advantage in hockey being left-handed?

short answer: no.

long answer:
no, but there are differences. whether you write with your right or left hand does not determine whether you play with a right or left handed stick. if you're right handed, playing with a left handed stick gives you better stick control since your dominant hand is on the top of the stick. but if you play with a right handed stick, it gives your shot more power because your dominant hand is lower.

also, it can make a difference positionally. if you play with a right handed stick, playing the left wing gives you a better angle when shooting at the net since it opens up the far corner of the net. similarly, if you play with a right handed stick as a defensemen, it gives you an advantage playing on the right side in the defensive zone because it puts the blade of the stick on the boards when you're in that corner which makes it easier to clear the puck out of the zone on the PK.

and all of that gets reversed of you play with a left handed stick.
   411. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 27, 2013 at 10:44 PM (#4453319)
Lots of people perceive a left-handed stick grip as better, as evidenced by the legions of right-handed players that skate lefthanded.
   412. zack Posted: May 27, 2013 at 10:54 PM (#4453323)
Maybe I'm confused, but at the end of this game the Red Wings scored at 4v4 in the last two minutes...and then it continued to be 4v4 after the goal. Shouldn't it have cancelled the Hossa penalty?
   413. Famous Original Joe C Posted: May 27, 2013 at 11:04 PM (#4453326)
Penalties don't get cancelled during a 4 on 4.
   414. zack Posted: May 27, 2013 at 11:16 PM (#4453331)
Clearly, but why? It's not like they were coincidental.

Glancing at the rulebook, that's the way it's written, but it's clearly incongruous with other penalty situations to me. It makes sense to not wipe out a penalty when they are coincidental minors, nut I don't get it for penalties that just happen to overlap.
   415. Langer Monk Posted: May 27, 2013 at 11:27 PM (#4453336)
if you're right handed, playing with a left handed stick gives you better stick control since your dominant hand is on the top of the stick. but if you play with a right handed stick, it gives your shot more power because your dominant hand is lower.


If I'm not mistaken, Canadian kids are specifically taught the 'reverse' of American kids - they prefer stick control over the power.
   416. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: May 27, 2013 at 11:38 PM (#4453339)
FWIW, Oduya thought the same thing, zack. Well, I'm not the only one who thinks the Wings needed to finish it tonight. They may have actually outplayed the Hawks for only the 2nd time this series. Hawks are lucky that awful goal didn't end the season.
   417. zonk Posted: May 28, 2013 at 08:24 AM (#4453425)
FWIW, Oduya thought the same thing, zack. Well, I'm not the only one who thinks the Wings needed to finish it tonight. They may have actually outplayed the Hawks for only the 2nd time this series. Hawks are lucky that awful goal didn't end the season.


If the Hawks win Wednesday - and I think that's a bigger if than I'd have imagined possible about 2 weeks ago - they won't have won this series, they'll have escaped it.
   418. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 28, 2013 at 08:41 AM (#4453433)
This series would already be over if Detroit's goalie hadn't stolen two games. The Blackhawks are fine and still the favorites to win the Cup if they win Wednesday.
   419. JL Posted: May 28, 2013 at 09:46 AM (#4453472)
This series would already be over if Detroit's goalie hadn't stolen two games. The Blackhawks are fine and still the favorites to win the Cup if they win Wednesday.


As much as it pains me, I tend to agree. Chicago is the better, deeper team (except maybe in goal). They win here and they have a great chance at the cup.

This is a learning year for bunch of the Wings. Younger players with some talent. We will see if they take the lessons learned here and apply them going forward.
   420. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 28, 2013 at 09:57 AM (#4453483)
I notice we still have a chance, if the Kings and Blackhawks take care of business, of the four teams left standing being the last four champions. That's neat.
   421. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 28, 2013 at 10:09 AM (#4453493)
zeth

you are very down on the penguins. they are a very worthy challenger to winning the cup
   422. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 28, 2013 at 10:24 AM (#4453507)
Hm? Sorry if I come off that way; I don't feel that way. The Penguins are a very good team and can definitely win the Cup. Since I pay close attention to them I'm more familiar with their particular weaknesses (lack of speed and proclivity to sloppy breakouts and neutral zone play, most notably) but they have obvious strengths (Sidney Crosby, good passing all around, many forwards who play sound defense, Sidney Crosby, more tough/resilient than most people give them credit for, and Sidney Crosby) too.

The Islanders were a bad matchup for them and soundly outplayed them in Round 1; the Penguins escaped that one because the Islanders' goalie went cold. I was worried about Ottawa being a similarly bad matchup, but needlessly; the Penguins mauled them. Paul MacLean said after Game 5 that "I hope they don't bill us for the clinic," which I thought was the funniest coach comment of the playoffs.

That said, the Bruins are also very good and playing very well.

EDIT: I do think Evgeni Malkin is overrated and would not mind seeing the Penguins trade him off, especially since they could get a lot of talent back for him. Guilty as charged there.
   423. zack Posted: May 28, 2013 at 10:46 AM (#4453527)
I notice we still have a chance, if the Kings and Blackhawks take care of business, of the four teams left standing being the last four champions. That's neat.

Also the four best teams (I don't think the Ducks were anywhere as good as their record). I'm not sure the Blackhawks can beat the Kings over 7 games, but then I'm not at all confident they can beat the Wings tomorrow. I nearly lost my #### on Handzus' goal because I was convinced Howard would save it even though Handzus had time to take his pants off before shooting.

Speaking of, thanks for being Brendan Smith, Brendan Smith.

I don't think you can put the series entirely on Howard's shoulders though. I said before it started that I wasn't worried about the Wings because the way to beat the Blackhawks was through obstruction, and they wouldn't use it systematically. And I was wrong.
   424. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 28, 2013 at 10:55 AM (#4453540)
Obstruction is the way to beat any good team, if you can get away with it (or just do it so much the refs get weary of calling it). It's why the refs should call penalties on obstruction every ####### time. It's my #1 pet peeve about hockey.
   425. Chris Fluit Posted: May 28, 2013 at 11:25 AM (#4453583)
I notice we still have a chance, if the Kings and Blackhawks take care of business, of the four teams left standing being the last four champions. That's neat.


If the Kings win tonight, then the five remaining teams will be the last five champions.
   426. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 28, 2013 at 11:31 AM (#4453594)
zeth

I suspect Pittsburgh would explore that if Crosby didn't have the head history he does. that franchise has been willing to make bold moves to keep themselves competitive
   427. JL Posted: May 28, 2013 at 12:26 PM (#4453649)
I don't think you can put the series entirely on Howard's shoulders though. I said before it started that I wasn't worried about the Wings because the way to beat the Blackhawks was through obstruction, and they wouldn't use it systematically. And I was wrong.


After that penalty shot gift, complaining about the refs seems unbecoming.
   428. zack Posted: May 28, 2013 at 01:00 PM (#4453684)
Where was a I complaining? The Wings adjusted tactically in the way they needed to, and have done an admirable job of gumming up everything the Hawks are good at. The tactic they chose may be de jure illegal, but it is completely de facto legal in the NHL. I wish that were not true because I think it is to the detriment to the game, but it is a fact of the sport and I haven't said anything about the refs.

As for the penalty shot, that was pretty much a textbook call. The only thing unjust about it is that the refs have failed to make that call twice previously in the series.
   429. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 28, 2013 at 01:05 PM (#4453692)
JDLk (427): Whacking the guy in the hands with a stick while he's handling the puck doesn't constitute a penalty where you come from?
   430. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: May 28, 2013 at 01:09 PM (#4453695)
The Bruins have to be pretty big underdogs to the Penguins. (I can't look it up, those sites are blocked here.)
   431. Steve Treder Posted: May 28, 2013 at 01:11 PM (#4453700)
If the Kings win tonight, then the five remaining teams will be the last five champions.

Therefore it would be a good thing for the Sharks to win tonight. Freshen things up a bit.
   432. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 28, 2013 at 01:15 PM (#4453709)
The Bruins are +170, way bigger underdogs than I expected, honestly. I know this because... let me channel my inner Bill Simmons here... if gambling were legal, I would have put $50 on the Bruins this morning, pursuant with my strategy to make myself happy no matter what: $20 on the Islanders in Round 1, $30 on the Senators in Round 2, $50 on the Bruins in Round 3, $100 on whoever the Penguins play in the Finals if they get there. Since the Penguins are the favorite I'm getting odds every time. So if gambling were legal, I would either lose $200 and see the Penguins win the Cup, or make a few bucks.
   433. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: May 28, 2013 at 01:35 PM (#4453750)
I'm surprised by that line. I'd definitely rate the Penguins as the favorite, and the Bruins can be maddeningly inconsistent, but they have the type of team that can give the Penguins trouble.
   434. JL Posted: May 28, 2013 at 01:48 PM (#4453760)
Where was a I complaining? The Wings adjusted tactically in the way they needed to, and have done an admirable job of gumming up everything the Hawks are good at. The tactic they chose may be de jure illegal, but it is completely de facto legal in the NHL. I wish that were not true because I think it is to the detriment to the game, but it is a fact of the sport and I haven't said anything about the refs.


It is a backhanded compliment at best, and adds a little whining to boot.

As for the penalty shot, that was pretty much a textbook call. The only thing unjust about it is that the refs have failed to make that call twice previously in the series.


I tend to agree. I have no problem with it being called a penalty, as long as it is always called as such. But as it almost never is, particularly in the playoffs, it was a gift.

Edit - Heck, if they even called it most of the time, then I would have had no problem with the call. I understand officials are going to miss things, but since this call is rarely made, it should not have been made then either.
   435. Shredder Posted: May 28, 2013 at 02:04 PM (#4453791)
Lots of people perceive a left-handed stick grip as better, as evidenced by the legions of right-handed players that skate lefthanded.
I don't think this is necessarily true. I think it's just a matter of how you learn the game. The New York Times did an article on this a couple years ago and found that about 60% of Canadians play left handed, and 60% of Americans play right handed. The best (but not proven) explanation is that Canadian kids start playing younger, and if you're right handed, it actually makes more sense to play left handed, especially as a kid, because you're right hand is stronger. And if you're a left handed shot, the only hand that is on your stick 100% of the time is your right (top) hand. American kids tend to pick up the game when both arms are a bit stronger.

I have no doubt that if I had been taught to play right handed, it would feel natural today. But when I first picked up a stick, it made sense to me to play left handed (not that I knew it at the time). My first stick didn't have a curved blade, so it didn't matter. But my right hand is much more important to how I play than my left hand. Anything I do one handed is with my dominant hand, and on wrist shots and passes, the left hand (low) is really more of a fulcrum than anything. A fair amount of my power (what of it there is) is generated by my right hand. Hockey is the only thing I do left handed.

So for me it makes more sense, but I know plenty of right handed people who are right handed shots. It probably just stems from what they did the first time they picked up a stick. If I try and play right handed now, it's as unnatural as trying to swing a golf club or throw a baseball left handed. Then again, I'm from L.A., so I was never really "taught" how to hold a stick. I'm sure more of that goes on in places where kids are coached. I just did what felt natural.
   436. zack Posted: May 28, 2013 at 02:08 PM (#4453795)
#434 you are reading things that I am not writing. It wasn't a complement, backhanded or not, just an observation.
   437. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 28, 2013 at 02:12 PM (#4453803)
Shredder (435): It may also be something to do with baseball being far more popular than hockey in the U.S. and the other way around in Canada. So Canadian kids pick up a hockey stick before anything else and are taught to hold it with their off hand forward, whereas American kids pick up a baseball bat first and are taught to hold it with their off hand back/low. That habit carries over when you pick up the other implement later in your childhood.

Sorry, you can tell I struggled to describe that properly, but I think you get the idea.
   438. zack Posted: May 28, 2013 at 02:34 PM (#4453829)
Really we should probably not refer to it as playing "right-handed" and "left-handed" but "right-shooting" and "left-shooting", because to many people playing "RH" is with a stick that curves to the right. I also wonder if there is a difference between forwards and defenders, since the latter are more likely to take slap shots.
   439. DA Baracus Posted: May 28, 2013 at 02:41 PM (#4453836)
Anecdotal, but I know I'm not alone on this, growing up you kind of had to go out of your way to find a left handed stick. Stores would always have right handed sticks, but not always left handed ones. So we grew up shooting right handed because that's what was available and that's what we thought you did.
   440. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: May 28, 2013 at 02:48 PM (#4453849)
I tend to agree. I have no problem with it being called a penalty, as long as it is always called as such. But as it almost never is, particularly in the playoffs, it was a gift.

I understand the frustration, but seeing as it was the right call I think gift is still unfair. Now, the disallowed goal in 3 on the other hand...
   441. JL Posted: May 28, 2013 at 03:27 PM (#4453886)
I understand the frustration, but seeing as it was the right call I think gift is still unfair. Now, the disallowed goal in 3 on the other hand..


We will have to disagree. If it is never called, and players act accordingly, then it is a gift to suddenly award the free shot.

As far as the disallowed goal, that is often disallowed (See Thomas Holmstrom's career).
   442. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 28, 2013 at 11:05 PM (#4454247)
the hawks have missed out on 2 goals, the disallowed one because of interference call and the one howard trapped with his leg against the pipe that was across a little bit but too quick of a whistle
   443. Steve Treder Posted: May 28, 2013 at 11:43 PM (#4454299)
Robert, name your player.

Great series.

God F@cking damn it.
   444. Shredder Posted: May 29, 2013 at 12:09 AM (#4454312)
Jonathan Quick is pretty clearly the best goaltender in the world. He more or less singlehandedly won this series for the Kings.

Nice of the Justin Williams that was the best skater on the ice in the St. Louis series to show up for the San Jose series.

Hopefully Raffi Torres doesn't keep the Kings' best face-off man out of the next series. He shouldn't even be in the league.

Love how the refs asked the video guys not to show controversial replays after calling Quick for embellishing a play where he took a freaking stick to the neck. You know what? Don't make obviously embarrassingly crappy calls and they won't be controversial.

I hope Joe Thornton is hurt, because if he's not, man, he just practically gave up in half of that game.

This series was like a boxing match where the guy who was ahead on points gets knocked out. I thought the Sharks were the better skaters throughout the series, but Quick was the difference.
   445. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 29, 2013 at 12:51 AM (#4454326)
It's my own opinion and do with it what you want, but I expect the Sharks to continue failing in the playoffs as long as Joe Thornton is on the team. That dude just doesn't really care, never has, never will, and since he's the best player on the team it inevitably rubs off on the team as a whole.
   446. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 29, 2013 at 12:58 AM (#4454329)
well the last 5 cup winners are still alive, should be an epic game tomorrow night as the hawks and wings meet for the last time as conference foes. This is how it should be between them, game 806 in the series go hawks
   447. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 29, 2013 at 01:53 AM (#4454349)
After Boyle scored, the last 13 minutes of the game was about as much fun as oral surgery. Flashbacks to Game 2, basically waiting for the other shoe to drop. Fortunately, it never did. It's crazy that in a series in which the home team won every game, that home ice was decided on the final game of the season where the two teams competed with all the intensity of the final preseason game.

Anyway, great series. I'll take my man Otis Nixon. He accomplished two of my teenage fantasies: Making 'The Catch' and nailing Pebbles. With those lines on his resume, I can overlook the other stuff.

Edit: And go...Wings? I guess? Since the Kings can apparently only win at home, I guess Detroit advancing would be nice. I can't actually cheer for the Red Wings though.

   448. zack Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM (#4454469)
I thought people might enjoy this piece. "the Hockey Gods are in charge tonight and they never really got past that stage where pulling the wings off flies was fun".
   449. Shredder Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:22 AM (#4454513)
Edit: And go...Wings? I guess? Since the Kings can apparently only win at home, I guess Detroit advancing would be nice. I can't actually cheer for the Red Wings though.
I think both would be fun. I have some friends who are big Red Wings fans, and of course I'm surrounded by Hawks "fans" in Chicago (who were suspiciously not among any of the ~1,500 people who used to show up for Hawks games 10 years ago). I would not have been emotionally stable enough to handle either of those matchups last year, but now that the Kings have a Cup, I'm in a better place.

I'll go with the Wings, though, because I'd rather have home ice, and I'd rather the series started Friday, since I have a date on Saturday which will cut into the end of the game.
   450. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:37 AM (#4454526)
I think both would be fun. I have some friends who are big Red Wings fans, and of course I'm surrounded by Hawks "fans" in Chicago (who were suspiciously not among any of the ~1,500 people who used to show up for Hawks games 10 years ago).

I'll pass on the standard defense here, since I'm sure you've heard it a million times. Regardless, it was awfully convenient of ol' Bill to die just as Toews and Kane came around.

I'll go with the Wings, though, because I'd rather have home ice, and I'd rather the series started Friday, since I have a date on Saturday which will cut into the end of the game.

Be fashionably late. While I do think the Kings match up quite well with the Hawks, I'd still think you'd prefer the Wings because they have more weaknesses.
   451. zack Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4454539)
Hey, I teared up a little during Dolla Bill's moment of silence. I've never been more proud of my fellow fans.

I think the Kings are favorites against either team, they scare me. Given the relative weakness of Detroit's defensive corps, they probably match up even more against the Wings.
   452. Ron J2 Posted: May 29, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4454556)
There's always a handful of guys who were (at best) decent players and get paired with the right guy and suddenly they're 30+ goal scorers.


Warren Young might be the classic. The Red Wings (back when they were a consistently poorly run organization) paid him fairly big mockey after he had a 40 goal season kind of out of nowhere. Missed the fact that Mario Lemieux wasn't going to be his center. (played mostly with Ron Duguay and John Ogrodnick. Decent enough offensive players to be sure, but nothing like Lemieux)
   453. DA Baracus Posted: May 29, 2013 at 12:23 PM (#4454569)
Rob Brown is the better example. 49 goals in 68 games along side Lemieux. Or Bernie Nichols scoring 70 goals when Gretzky came to town.
   454. Shredder Posted: May 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM (#4454589)
Be fashionably late. While I do think the Kings match up quite well with the Hawks, I'd still think you'd prefer the Wings because they have more weaknesses.
I wish I could, but it's dinner before an event that we have tickets for. It's game one. I'll be fine.

I think the Hawks have the skill to overwhelm the Kings in any one game, as they did a couple times this season. But over the course of a series, it will be interesting to see if the Kings' size can wear them down. They are a really, really big team.
Or Bernie Nichols scoring 70 goals when Gretzky came to town.
Nicholls was coming off a couple 40+ goal seasons before that, so he was always a goal scorer. He benefitted less from playing with Gretzky and more from centering the second line and getting away from the top pairing. I don't recall him playing with Gretzky all that much that season aside from the power play. As for Brown, an even BETTER example may be Kevin Stevens. Four great seasons with Lemieux (40, 54, 55, and 41 goals) and never came close to those numbers again. Of course, he had some other issues.
   455. Steve Treder Posted: May 29, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4454592)
Anyway, great series. I'll take my man Otis Nixon. He accomplished two of my teenage fantasies: Making 'The Catch' and nailing Pebbles. With those lines on his resume, I can overlook the other stuff.

Done! (though it isn't showing up yet, but I got the email from Sean!)
   456. DA Baracus Posted: May 29, 2013 at 12:48 PM (#4454595)
Nicholls was coming off a couple 40+ goal seasons before that, so he was always a goal scorer.


He was, but to go from 32 to 70 overnight is ridiculous, even for the 80s. I know he didn't play on Gretzky's line (although he did have 21 PP goals so he got some ice time with him), which makes it even more absurd. Brown and Young were feeding directly off Mario, but Nichols had the ripple effect. This is not to say that either one is "better."

an even BETTER example may be Kevin Stevens


Oh man I forgot about him. Dan Quinn too.
   457. zack Posted: May 29, 2013 at 01:38 PM (#4454635)
But over the course of a series, it will be interesting to see if the Kings' size can wear them down. They are a really, really big team.

And the Blackhawks are a relatively small team. Weighted by ice time these playoffs, the Kings are about 10 lbs heavier and a half inch taller. The Kings have 7 guys over 210, the Hawks have 4. And the Hawks have 4 guys under 6', where the Kings only have (200 lb) Mike Richards.

Combined with Mr. Quick, that's why I've said all year that the Kings scare me.
   458. Ron J2 Posted: May 29, 2013 at 01:40 PM (#4454637)
I think it's just a matter of how you learn the game


When I was growing up, Canadian Tire (the source for most sticks back then) didn't carry many right-handed sticks. Most kids were given their first sticks and since they were mostly bought at Canadian Tire ...

Worth noting that Canadian lefties mostly shoot left, which goes against the dominant hand thing.
   459. Ron J2 Posted: May 29, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4454646)
I don't recall him playing with Gretzky all that much that season aside from the power play.


One thing to note about Gretzky is that he always was the first player to come on to the ice when players changed. Most of the time left winger comes off and is replaced with a left winger. With Gretzky, he came on for whoever was the first to come off (if he came on for a left winger he'd play left wing for a while) and thus played a huge amount with everybody.

I can't find a convenient way to get this info but I think you'll find that Gretzky got an assist on a pretty fair number of Nicholls' even strength goals (he had an assist on ~1/3 of all of the King goals that he didn't score). And on most of his power play goals.

EDIT: Of course Gretzky routinely double-shifted. And they often used a Gretzky, Robitaille, Nicholls line when they had to have a goal (their other leading offensive players were more well rounded players but without the pure offensive gifts of these guys)
   460. ursus arctos Posted: May 29, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4454663)
Tortorella fired by Rangers.
   461. Ron J2 Posted: May 29, 2013 at 02:24 PM (#4454677)
#460 Was just going to post that. I'll settle for posting his answers in one of his interviews.

A1: A number of things. I'll keep it in the room.

A2: No

A3: I answered your first question. No

A4: You need to improve as a hockey team every game.

A5: I'm going to keep it in the room.

To be fair, he has no patience for stupid questions but will give well considered answers to a good question (as long as it doesn't require him to speak about the weaknesses of any of his players. Those will always get the "keep it in the room")

Before being hired by the Rangers he was a regular on one of the Canadian hockey talk shows. And he showed very little patience with the talking heads on the show. Could be hilarious when they attempted to draw him out.

When they made use of his strengths -- talking overall tactics or specifically what caused a breakdown in coverage -- he was quite insightful.
   462. DA Baracus Posted: May 29, 2013 at 02:30 PM (#4454685)
I loved the way Tortorella treated reporters. More coaches should do that.
   463. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 29, 2013 at 02:46 PM (#4454708)
More to the point, I think Tortorella's a damn good coach. I would already have called his agent if I was running a team that's been bad lately but has a little young talent. He's probably not the ideal fit for a veteran team.
   464. DA Baracus Posted: May 29, 2013 at 02:59 PM (#4454740)
I think Tortorella's a damn good coach.


He is. As a Flyers fan I like that they fired a good coach and hope they replace him with Lindy Ruff.
   465. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 29, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4454752)
Grantland has a 30 for 30 short up on Clint Malarchuk. Not for the faint of heart. That dude was totally out of his mind going back on the ice in less than two weeks, and imo it was kind of irresponsible of the Sabres to let him to do so.
   466. zack Posted: May 29, 2013 at 04:16 PM (#4454898)
Pfft, it's just blood, that takes like an hour to replace. He was out of the hospital the next day. As for any mental or emotional problems with getting back on the ice, clearly Malarchuk is not the sort to dwell on that kind of thing. The guy later shot himself in the face and tried to refuse treatment.
   467. zack Posted: May 29, 2013 at 04:25 PM (#4454907)
Well, the content of the film makes my previous comment that of a real #######, since he says he shouldn't have come back.

I wish they talked to Jim Pizzutelli, if he's still alive. The guy reached into his neck, pinched off the vein and held it closed. It's such a fascinating story and they didn't talk about a lot of it, like him skating off the ice because he didn't want his mom to see him die on TV. It does state definitively, or at least heavily implies, that the gun shot wound was intentional, which was previously questionable.
   468. Shredder Posted: May 29, 2013 at 04:32 PM (#4454918)
Grantland has a 30 for 30 short up on Clint Malarchuk. Not for the faint of heart.
This was back when the Sabres had cornered the market on -chuks. They had Clint Malarchuk, Dale Hawerchuk, and Dave Andreychuk. They also had Darcy Wakaluk, who had to feel little left out.
   469. steagles Posted: May 29, 2013 at 04:55 PM (#4454936)
Hey, I teared up a little during Dolla Bill's moment of silence. I've never been more proud of my fellow fans.
i'm actually a bit disappointed. i was expecting a rousing rendition of "na-na-na-na".
I loved the way Tortorella treated reporters. More coaches should do that.
that's the third worst thing about chris pronger's career being over. he was breathtaking at a press conference.
   470. DA Baracus Posted: May 29, 2013 at 05:00 PM (#4454943)
that's the third worst thing about chris pronger's career being over. he was breathtaking at a press conference.


I did love the way Pronger treated the media. He should have been even rougher with them, they are particularly useless hacks.
   471. Shredder Posted: May 29, 2013 at 05:03 PM (#4454947)
I'm sorry, but the current king (no pun intended) of NHL press conferences is Daryl Sutter.
   472. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:37 PM (#4455304)
Horse #### that was a goal
   473. zack Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:37 PM (#4455305)
OH HOLY ####### ####
   474. Famous Original Joe C Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:39 PM (#4455306)
The whistle blew. That's got to be awful as a Blackhawks fan, but it was the right one as far as I can tell at the moment.
   475. zack Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:39 PM (#4455308)
That's the worst call I've ever seen. Coincidental minors behind the play wiping out a goal. And the "coincidental" was a Red Wing tackling Saad into the benches.

The whistle should have never blown because there shouldn't have been a penalty on the Hawks.
   476. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:40 PM (#4455309)
How does saad get a minor for getting pushed down thays horse ####
   477. Famous Original Joe C Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:44 PM (#4455311)
Apparently Joey Crawford is doing NHL games now too.
   478. Famous Original Joe C Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:48 PM (#4455314)
Okay, on further watching....hmm. Right call to wave it off given the whistle had blown - but the whistle probably shouldn't have been blown.
   479. Bunny Vincennes Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:52 PM (#4455320)
Horrible call.
   480. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:52 PM (#4455321)
Apparently this is the same ref that missed Torres decapitating Hossa last season.

Poor umping in MLB this year, poor reffing in the Champions League final, and now this. What is going on.
   481. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:56 PM (#4455330)
Mist have something against the hawks...i hooe he never refs one of tjere games again
   482. zack Posted: May 29, 2013 at 10:59 PM (#4455332)
I would bet $10,000 that the ref only called coincidental penalties because he was scared to call a penalty with 3 minutes left in a game 7. And if he had known they were about to score he wouldn't have called it at all.

Mist have something against the hawks...i hooe he never refs one of tjere games again

Pfft, don't talk like a Canuck.
   483. Bunny Vincennes Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:02 PM (#4455335)
Finally!
   484. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:03 PM (#4455337)
HAWKS!
   485. Steve Treder Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:03 PM (#4455338)
Quite the game!
   486. zack Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:07 PM (#4455343)
Thank ####, that would have been an awful summer after that denied goal if they lost.

They should make Hjalmarsson the #1 star just to be dicks.
   487. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:10 PM (#4455346)
What a game and what a series. It feels like this is how it had to be
   488. zonk Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:15 PM (#4455350)
Certainly a memorable way to part conferences.

   489. zonk Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:18 PM (#4455351)
Hats off to the Wings on a tough series... not sure I'd feel that gracious if not for an opportune Seabrook wrister, but all's well that ends well.
   490. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:20 PM (#4455352)
I have to hand it to Detroit and how they played as a 7 seed they really did one hell of a job. With babcock and these young players i expect them to be in the eastern conference finals next year. Also shredder as i said of fb a $10 bref sponsersgip on the series.
   491. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 29, 2013 at 11:24 PM (#4455358)
Well, thank God the Hawks won in the end. That may or may not have been a defensible call but it was no way to decide a series.

Don't particularly like our chances against Chicago. I can see a couple game where the Hawks just skate circles around the Kings, a couple where Quick steals victories where it feels like a line of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit wouldn't be able to get one past one him, and the series will be decided by the others.

The strategy has to be to just use their size and hit the #### out of those guys.
   492. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: May 30, 2013 at 10:37 AM (#4455624)
Okay, on further watching....hmm. Right call to wave it off given the whistle had blown - but the whistle probably shouldn't have been blown.

That call really highlights how terrible the analysis on TV is. At no point during the broadcast or intermission did they explain what the call on Saad was for - officially it was roughing - and they simply focused on the "you can't call anything there" argument, which is utter horseshit and I totally hate. One of the Wings bloggers is trying to claim Saad tripped Zetterberg (he doesn't touch Z, Z just fell down), which wasn't the call anyway. The problem with the play was that Saad did absolutely nothing close to commit a penalty - so I think zack in 482 is totally right. So thank god it didn't matter, because it would have been hard to swallow otherwise.

Don't particularly like our chances against Chicago. I can see a couple game where the Hawks just skate circles around the Kings, a couple where Quick steals victories where it feels like a line of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit wouldn't be able to get one past one him, and the series will be decided by the others.

The Kings were the team I wanted the Hawks to face least of any in the entire West. They've got a size advantage, just like Detroit had, but they're not as slow as Detroit. Howard played out of his mind at times and the Hawks really struggled with him, but Quick is better. The Kings have more offensive weapons - the Hawks may have slowed down Zetterberg and Datsuk, but there's a lot more offensive options to contend with on LA.

The Hawks need more scoring out of Kane and Toews to win. They need Bolland to magically transform into the player he was 3 years ago. Outside of the gamewinner and parts of games 5 and 6, Seabrook has been bad this year. Oduya had a terrible series. Handzus is running on fumes and is a huge liability.

I think this might be another long, long series.
   493. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 30, 2013 at 10:45 AM (#4455633)
zack (482) is definitely right. I remember the Boston-Carolina Game 7 five or six years ago that went well into overtime--the game devolved into a street fight on ice and the officials just absolutely would not call anything unless it was so obvious they'd get fired for not calling it.

DO NOT LET A DECISIVE GAME BE DECIDED BY A PENALTY is definitely a directive officials get from the league office.

The Blackhawks are the favorite in the conference finals. They're all around a better team than the Kings; the Kings are the ones who need players to step up to beat the Blackhawks. Blackhawks fans are just terrified of Jonathan Quick beating them, which is certainly understandable.

The Kings are no pushovers, though. This is the best set of conference finals matchups I can remember.
   494. Ron J2 Posted: May 30, 2013 at 10:52 AM (#4455646)
DO NOT LET A DECISIVE GAME BE DECIDED BY A PENALTY is definitely a directive officials get from the league office.


Right. And it's a huge factor in the generally low scoring nature of playoff hockey. You can grab with relative impunity. Oh there will be a few called (though almost never late in the game) but it's still an easy way to recover position.
   495. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: May 30, 2013 at 10:54 AM (#4455649)
The problem with the play was that Saad did absolutely nothing close to commit a penalty - so I think zack in 482 is totally right.


Eh, Saad kinda smacked (face-washed if we're being generous) Quincy in the face when he was on his back. Was it enough for a penalty? I dunno, probably not.

The Hawks need more scoring out of Kane and Toews to win. They need Bolland to magically transform into the player he was 3 years ago. Outside of the gamewinner and parts of games 5 and 6, Seabrook has been bad this year. Oduya had a terrible series. Handzus is running on fumes and is a huge liability.


Oduya just had a horrible, horrible game 7.
   496. JL Posted: May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM (#4455658)
I would bet $10,000 that the ref only called coincidental penalties because he was scared to call a penalty with 3 minutes left in a game 7. And if he had known they were about to score he wouldn't have called it at all.


I agree with this. Technically, it was a correct to call off the goal, and I understand the refs reluctance to call penalties at that point (even if I think they should), but they should not have blown the whistle in the first place. This is one of my big beefs with the officials, in that they show a lot of judgement when calling penalties (the slew foot by Shaw being one that was let go), but then get hyper technical at weird times (this one and the penalty shot being two examples). It leads to really bad results. Don't even get me started on the results-oriented suspension system they seem to have.

It was a good series. Detroit played well and got further than I expected. The Hawks played a bit better. I am hopeful that the youngsters on Detroit learn and grow from this.
   497. Shredder Posted: May 30, 2013 at 11:35 AM (#4455720)
Eh, Saad kinda smacked (face-washed if we're being generous) Quincy in the face when he was on his back. Was it enough for a penalty? I dunno, probably not.
This was one of those situations where a ref says "I'm either not calling a penalty on either of them, or I'm calling a penalty on both of them". Once Saad threw the punch, he decided to call both of them. That's fine earlier in the game, but I think a penalty that late either needs to be obvious, take away a scoring chance, or be something like clearing the puck over the glass, which a referee can't not call. If you're going to call coincidental minors to send a message, do it after a scrum when the whistle has already blown. Walkom was justified under the rules, but it was a horrible time to make that call. I hate this line of thinking, by the way. Either what Quincey did was a penalty or it wasn't. Saad's attempt at a punch doesn't magically make Quincey's actions worthy of a penalty. But that's the way they call these things.

I think the Hawks need to win both games this weekend, and take one of the two in L.A. The longer this series goes, the more it favors the Kings. They're much more physical than the Hawks. I saw at least 5-10 hits in game seven of the Kings/Sharks series alone that were more punishing than just about any of the hits I saw in the last few games of the Hawks/Wings series. The Hawks are deeper and quicker, but the Kings aren't exactly slow. Hawks have more high end offensive talent. Kings have the better goaltender, and personally I think they have the better coach. Both teams kill penalties very well, and most die hard Kings fans will tell that after watching them the last few years, the Kings' best penalty killer might be Blackhawks assistant coach (and former Kings assistant) Jamie Kompon.

If it's a four or five game series, Hawks win. Six or seven games, I like the Kings. Key player for the Kings will be Kopitar. He tends to get a little too defensive minded in the playoffs, and they need him to put up points. Also going to be very important to get Jarret Stoll back.
   498. Chris Fluit Posted: May 30, 2013 at 11:59 AM (#4455767)
DO NOT LET A DECISIVE GAME BE DECIDED BY A PENALTY is definitely a directive officials get from the league office.


Except that it's a bad directive. A game can be decided by a non-call as much as by a call. Hypothetically, imagine if Zetterberg had been tripped by a Hawks player resulting in a turnover that led to a 3-1 odd-man rush and a game-winning goal. In that case, a non-call decided the game and Red Wings fans would be indignant. Officials should be at liberty to call penalties late in a game and late in a series if an infraction occurs- and especially if the infraction results in a turnover or other advantage for the offending team.

That hypothetical scenario doesn't excuse this particular incident. It was a bad call (and it wasn't clear that Zetterberg was tripped). But extrapolating from "that was a bad call" to "never make any calls" leads to really bad hockey.
   499. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 30, 2013 at 12:07 PM (#4455782)
Yes, like virtually everything Bettman does it's a bad idea, but it happens. Witness the existence of NHL teams in Carolina, Orlando, Tampa, Nashville, and Phoenix, just for an easy example.
   500. JL Posted: May 30, 2013 at 12:13 PM (#4455791)
Except that it's a bad directive. A game can be decided by a non-call as much as by a call. Hypothetically, imagine if Zetterberg had been tripped by a Hawks player resulting in a turnover that led to a 3-1 odd-man rush and a game-winning goal. In that case, a non-call decided the game and Red Wings fans would be indignant. Officials should be at liberty to call penalties late in a game and late in a series if an infraction occurs- and especially if the infraction results in a turnover or other advantage for the offending team.


You don't even need the hypo. There is an argument that Nyquist was boarded by Bolland, which led to the game winning goal. To be clear, I have no issue that it was not called, but I have seen those hits called penalties in the past. So a no-call had an effect on the game in a sense.

I just want consistency within the game. If it would have been a call earlier, in the game, it should also be called with a minute left in the game.
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