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Thursday, November 01, 2012

OT: November College Football Thread.

Alabama Is still Ranked #1.  Will they hold steady to repeat? Make it to the title game?  Or does another team claim the Crystal ball in Miami in January.

odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: November 01, 2012 at 01:43 PM | 3408 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: college football

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   1301. cmd600 Posted: November 26, 2012 at 06:22 PM (#4310026)
No one has argued otherwise


Then your argument has to be that homefield is worth a whole helluva lot in college football, which would have to make Notre Dame's 17 point win (real results!) at Oklahoma possibly the best performance of the year.
   1302. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: November 26, 2012 at 06:30 PM (#4310034)
Let me clarify. Stanford is so much better than Missouri that beating Stanford at home > beating Missouri on the road.


Margin of victory?
   1303. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: November 26, 2012 at 06:30 PM (#4310036)
Then your argument has to be that homefield is worth a whole helluva lot in college football, which would have to make Notre Dame's 17 point win (real results!) at Oklahoma possibly the best performance of the year.


By far the most impressive thing ND has done all year.
   1304. cmd600 Posted: November 26, 2012 at 06:36 PM (#4310039)
By far the most impressive thing ND has done all year


Troll will troll (and force you to parse every last word). If home field is worth that much, who else can match what Notre Dame did? Alabama at LSU is right there, certainly, so is Stanford at Oregon, but then Oregon at Oregon St or Florida watching A&M or Fla St shoot themselves in the foot? I'll easily take ND at Oklahoma over any of those.
   1305. Tripon Posted: November 26, 2012 at 06:43 PM (#4310043)
At least we can pretend that every week counts.
   1306. Every Inge Counts Posted: November 26, 2012 at 06:58 PM (#4310048)
Alabama beating LSU at LSU is probably the most impressive win on paper (not by margin or anything).
   1307. Mike Webber Posted: November 26, 2012 at 07:05 PM (#4310053)
Heard this on the radio just now, every loss by a Big 12 team this year came against a bowl eligible team.

I don't have any idea if that is unusual, but it is interesting.
   1308. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 26, 2012 at 07:07 PM (#4310056)
I think what he was saying is that Missouri + homefield advantage + 21 points is roughly equal to Stanford on the road + 7 points (or maybe +0 points if you take as a starting point that they were even through 4 quarters). Not sure I agree with that, though. MU is pretty bad.
   1309. DA Baracus Posted: November 26, 2012 at 07:11 PM (#4310057)
Margin of victory?


Not enough. Stanford is really, really good.
   1310. AuntBea Posted: November 26, 2012 at 07:16 PM (#4310058)
Heard this on the radio just now, every loss by a Big 12 team this year came against a bowl eligible team.

I don't have any idea if that is unusual, but it is interesting.


Every Out of Conference loss by the SEC was to a bowl eligible team.
   1311. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 26, 2012 at 07:26 PM (#4310066)
Every Out of Conference loss by the SEC was to a bowl eligible team.

The difference being that there is only one non-bowl eligible team in the Big 12 and they've been swept in conference (at least, so far, nothing is certain with WV playing as a favorite).
   1312. Spivey Posted: November 26, 2012 at 08:06 PM (#4310080)
ND is good. And I think the difference between the Big 12, Pac 12, and SEC is basically splitting hairs. The SEC is likely to do very well at bowls because they're so top heavy.

What odds do people put on UCLA beating Stanford? UCLA had been quite impressive this year prior to last week's shenanigans. It was obvious they didn't give 100%, but that was a pretty serious clowning they received.
   1313. AuntBea Posted: November 26, 2012 at 08:06 PM (#4310081)
It's a nice artifact of a balanced conference.
   1314. AuntBea Posted: November 26, 2012 at 08:09 PM (#4310085)
UCLA is 10 point dogs at Stanford. I think that is about right, maybe Stanford should be even slightly bigger favorites.
   1315. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: November 26, 2012 at 08:18 PM (#4310091)
I think what he was saying is that Missouri + homefield advantage + 21 points is roughly equal to Stanford on the road + 7 points (or maybe +0 points if you take as a starting point that they were even through 4 quarters). Not sure I agree with that, though. MU is pretty bad.


And lo and behold, we can civilly agree on the differences here. But at least you've managed to get the argument correct. It's possible that I am overrating Mizzou.
   1316. AuntBea Posted: November 26, 2012 at 08:49 PM (#4310104)
Missou is not great. But are they really much worse than Iowa State or Michigan State? I don't think so.

On the other hand, I think Stanford is pretty damn good.
   1317. DA Baracus Posted: November 26, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4310107)
What odds do people put on UCLA beating Stanford?


Slim. Stanford is the better team with the better coach and is at home.

Missou is not great. But are they really much worse than Iowa State or Michigan State? I don't think so.


They're not, but Sam didn't compare them to those teams.
   1318. zenbitz Posted: November 26, 2012 at 11:26 PM (#4310218)
Stanford beat Oregon at Oregon. UCLA is Oregon (very) lite.
   1319. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: November 26, 2012 at 11:36 PM (#4310230)
So sam are you saying that beating mizzou is the same as beating stanford at home? (A team that beat oregon at oregon)? So basically according to this logic as long as you beat mizzou by 21 you could beat oregon
   1320. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: November 26, 2012 at 11:46 PM (#4310245)
So sam are you saying that beating mizzou is the same as beating stanford at home?


Read 1308 until either 1) you get the very simple argument being put forth or 2) your nose starts bleeding from the exertion.
   1321. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: November 26, 2012 at 11:58 PM (#4310256)
Sam all he did was sum up your terrible logic. And well also confirms my point about any team beating mizzu by 21 at mizzu beats oregon
   1322. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: November 27, 2012 at 12:01 AM (#4310258)
And sam if you are asking me to re read something you better do the same.

   1323. Howie Menckel Posted: November 27, 2012 at 12:41 AM (#4310299)

I am amused by the relative skeds of Florida vs 'Bama and Georgia.

And I mock the current 2-team farce and am bored with the SEC, and am not a Notre Dame fan, either.

But the yearly nonsense in determining a champion with a pitiful rationale, and the desperate mewling of supporters of the status quo, never fails to entertain.

   1324. AuntBea Posted: November 27, 2012 at 01:00 AM (#4310307)
I'm pretty much the opposite. In order to reward the best team with the championship any significant percentage of the time (like say 80%), you will inevitably create one where there is no doubt about who will win over 50% of the time (numbers for illustration purposes only). In other words, you substitute tension, excitement, and moments of high leverage for certainty. That just sucks the fun out of the sport.

Now, once you have accepted the fact that the sport is more fun when there are lots of moments of high leverage and it doesn't really matter that much (within reason) if the champion is actually the "best", it's possible to really enjoy the games like Oregon/Stanford 2 weeks ago.

2 teams, 4 teams whatever. Even 32 teams won't solve anything. Some great team will lose in an early round to a weak opponent, a bad ref's call or whatever. There is just no real way to "decide who is best" on the field. All you can do is see who won a game.

I think with a 4 team playoff it might be (barely) possible to retain some of the regular season importance, but if it ever switches to 8 or more teams, there is no way I would pay any attention until the conference championships.
   1325. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: November 27, 2012 at 01:29 AM (#4310327)
I am amused by the relative skeds of Florida vs 'Bama and Georgia.

And I mock the current 2-team farce and am bored with the SEC, and am not a Notre Dame fan, either.

But the yearly nonsense in determining a champion with a pitiful rationale, and the desperate mewling of supporters of the status quo, never fails to entertain.


I find this mocking to be somewhat peculiar considering you routinely brings up the fact that the 2011 Giants were outscored by their opponents and won the Super Bowl. I can assure you that the CFB title is not open to such mediocrities.

CFB's ending is frequently (though not always) messy. In return we get a regular season that is unmatched in North American sports. Always. Why anyone would want to trade a potentially neater end for a less compelling regular season is a mystery. Why the hell people can't leave alone the one sport that doesn't have a playoff funfest is just annoying. Playopff proponents have every other sport in this country to enjoy if they've just got to have that tidy little finish. Why can't those folks keep their ####### hands off ours?


   1326. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: November 27, 2012 at 01:46 AM (#4310335)
I love the college football regular season, you must win every game to get to the title. any loss makes it possible that you wont get there, making every game do or die, love it.
   1327. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 27, 2012 at 11:39 AM (#4310513)
I find this mocking to be somewhat peculiar considering you routinely brings up the fact that the 2011 Giants were outscored by their opponents and won the Super Bowl. I can assure you that the CFB title is not open to such mediocrities.

Or the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals.

Mock the process all you want, but CFB ends up with a "truer" champ than most other sports.

   1328. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: November 27, 2012 at 11:45 AM (#4310518)
In return we get a regular season that is unmatched in North American sports. Always.

The college football regular season has been severely damaged by the built-in SEC preference. An SEC loss doesn't mean the same thing as a loss by anyone else.
   1329. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: November 27, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4310520)
And sam if you are asking me to re read something you better do the same.


I'll let you know when you near an ability level to suggest as much to me, child.
   1330. SoSH U at work Posted: November 27, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4310527)
The college football regular season has been severely damaged by the built-in SEC preference. An SEC loss doesn't mean the same thing as a loss by anyone else.


Not to go all Sam here, but the SEC's built-in preference is merit-based. When you establish yourself as the best conference year-in, year-out, your one-loss champ is going to get first crack at the title game over the ones from other leagues (though I still think OSU should have been LSU's opponent in the 2011-12 title game). And, of course, the results of those title tilts don't exactly scream, "Unfairness."
   1331. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 27, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4310542)
Not to go all Sam here, but the SEC's built-in preference is merit-based. When you establish yourself as the best conference year-in, year-out, your one-loss champ is going to get first crack at the title game over the ones from other leagues (though I still think OSU should have been LSU's opponent in the 2011-12 title game). And, of course, the results of those title tilts don't exactly scream, "Unfairness."

Agreed. SEC has earned the benefit of the doubt, but some people want to take it too far.
   1332. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: November 27, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4310588)
Not to go all Sam here, but the SEC's built-in preference is merit-based.


Get past the whinging from all of the Notre Dame fanboys who can't stand it that I don't love Baby Jesus's Football Warrior Saints and this is all I've ever really said. My position is

1) Alabama is the best team in the country and will almost certainly beat UGA handily in the SEC title game
2) Oregon is the second best team in the country but is locked out of the MNC game due to undue adulation of ND's undefeated season.
3) UGA and ND are essentially evenly matched second-tier programs right now, and would go 5-5 if they played each other 10 times.
4) Alabama is going to destroy ND in the MNC game (moreso than they'll destroy UGA, who has an offense better suited to at least keeping up)

The corollary here is "if you want the SEC to stop getting 'special treatment' then someone needs to beat the SEC in a championship game sometime soon."
   1333. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: November 27, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4310590)
1329. Rickey is oversampling the Poles Posted: November 27, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4310520)

And sam if you are asking me to re read something you better do the same.



I'll let you know when you near an ability level to suggest as much to me, child.


Your right! my ability would have to go down much further to get onto a level you can understand.
   1334. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: November 27, 2012 at 12:52 PM (#4310597)
Pretty sure Sam understands all about "your" vs. "you're." Which makes one of you.
   1335. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: November 27, 2012 at 12:56 PM (#4310606)
Oregon is the second best team in the country but is locked out of the MNC game due to undue adulation of ND's undefeated season.

No, they're not. They're locked out because of the SEC preference. (Your protestations that a 12-0 team with ND's schedule is undeserving of a spot in the final is batshit insane, though not unexpected from the SEC's Amen Corner.)
   1336. DA Baracus Posted: November 27, 2012 at 12:59 PM (#4310610)
Tulane joins the Big East because why not.
   1337. SoSH U at work Posted: November 27, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4310613)
Get past the whinging from all of the Notre Dame fanboys who can't stand it that I don't love Baby Jesus's Football Warrior Saints and this is all I've ever really said.


No Sam, you've said a boatload of stupid stuff on this thread, driven by what I presme is a deep hatred for Notre Dame (and your general tendency to stay stupid stuff).

You may be easing into more rational positions since being called on your idiocy, but let's not pretend you've been the voice of reason. And even still, the alluded to idea that ND's presence in the title game is due to "undue adulation for ND's undefeated season" indicates you're not all the way onboard the sane train. You know damn well that any major college team with ND's record, making them the only unbeaten, accomplished against the schedule they played would result in a title game appearance, and has nothing to do with any manlove for the Irish. Suggesting otherwise reveals some fanboy tendencies, but their yours, not anyone else's.

No, they're not. They're locked out because of the SEC preference.


You're both wrong. They're locked out because they don't deserve to be there.

   1338. Shredder Posted: November 27, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4310635)
Slim. Stanford is the better team with the better coach and is at home.
Stanford is the better team, but I'm not really sure that coaching is the difference. Stanford is just too big, strong, and physical at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. UCLA's offensive line is better than it has been in the last few years, but it's still a year or so away from being any good.
   1339. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 27, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4310637)
Oregon is the second best team in the country but is locked out of the MNC game due to undue adulation of ND's undefeated season.

Nonsense. Oregon had a path to the BCS Title Game - just had to beat Stanford. They didn't; Notre Dame did. It would be unjust and idiotic to dislodge Notre Dame from the Title Game, especially to benefit Oregon.
   1340. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: November 27, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4310656)
Expand to 128 teams. Make the whole season a triple knock out tournament.
   1341. DA Baracus Posted: November 27, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4310659)
Stanford is the better team, but I'm not really sure that coaching is the difference.


David Shaw is a better coach than Jim Mora. If only because most coaches are better than Mora.
   1342. Shredder Posted: November 27, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4310668)
David Shaw is a better coach than Jim Mora. If only because most coaches are better than Mora.
Not Rick Neuheisel or Karl Dorrell.
   1343. DA Baracus Posted: November 27, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4310694)
Not Rick Neuheisel or Karl Dorrell.


Well then get the HOF bust ready. I take it this is your first year seeing Mora coach.
   1344. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: November 27, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4310714)
East Carolina is also joining the Big Easty as a football only member.
   1345. DA Baracus Posted: November 27, 2012 at 02:44 PM (#4310717)
I think Tennessee fans are going to be on suicide watch when Gruden turns them down again.
   1346. Tripon Posted: November 27, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4310726)
The schadenfreude is going to be delicious when every SEC team that needs a coach is going to be turned down by any notable coaching prospect.
   1347. Shredder Posted: November 27, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4310728)
Well then get the HOF bust ready. I take it this is your first year seeing Mora coach.
It's my first year seeing him coach college football. Since he tends to leave most of the details in the hands of the coordinators, and they've looked pretty good so far, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Nine wins and a victory over U$C is about as much as UCLA fans could possibly have hoped for this season with this collection of players.
   1348. McCoy Posted: November 27, 2012 at 02:59 PM (#4310729)
1) Alabama is the best team in the country and will almost certainly beat UGA handily in the SEC title game
2) Oregon is the second best team in the country but is locked out of the MNC game due to undue adulation of ND's undefeated season.
3) UGA and ND are essentially evenly matched second-tier programs right now, and would go 5-5 if they played each other 10 times.
4) Alabama is going to destroy ND in the MNC game (moreso than they'll destroy UGA, who has an offense better suited to at least keeping up)


I'm so looking forward to the actual games. The next 5 weels or so of discussion not so much. They play the games for a reason.
   1349. Tripon Posted: November 27, 2012 at 03:01 PM (#4310733)
Is there anybody making a case that Alabama's offense is actually going to 'blow' teams out? Their offense is atrocious right now.
   1350. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 27, 2012 at 03:17 PM (#4310743)
The schadenfreude is going to be delicious when every SEC team that needs a coach is going to be turned down by any notable coaching prospect.

Yeah, I think the SEC, outside of the elite programs, isn't that attractive an option for many coaches. Sure, you get paid a ton, but who wants to take a job where you have to compete with full strength Florida, Georgia, LSU, Bama USCe, and now Texas A&M programs AND deal with the expectation of regularly competing for BCS bowls? The only job that doesn't look a temporary stop to getting fired is Kentucky, and they aren't real competitors for top level coaching prospects anyway.

I'm so looking forward to the actual games. The next 5 weels or so of discussion not so much. They play the games for a reason.

Amen.
   1351. cmd600 Posted: November 27, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4310750)
4) Alabama is going to destroy ND in the MNC game (moreso than they'll destroy UGA, who has an offense better suited to at least keeping up)


Conveniently ignoring the defense. Notre Dame has given up 20 points in regulation just once (and exactly). Georgia has allowed 20+ in six games, which includes the mighty Buffalo, Missouri, Florida Atlantic, Tennessee and Kentucky teams. Georgia is ripe for another 42-10 scrimmage, while ND's defense is going to keep ND homers saying "if we can just figure out how to get a score here, we're right back in the game".

I agree, and so does FEI, that Oregon is right there as one of the best teams in the nation, but they have no argument after losing at home to a team ND beat. But notice that FEI has Notre Dame in the Oregon/Alabama group, with Georgia lagging well behind.
   1352. hokieneer Posted: November 27, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4310755)
I agree, and so does FEI, that Oregon is right there as one of the best teams in the nation, but they have no argument after losing at home to a team ND beat. But notice that FEI has Notre Dame in the Oregon/Alabama group, with Georgia lagging well behind.


That's been my personal opinion, to a degree. Some order of UO, ND, Bama as 1-3.. then UGA, KSU, etc as the clearly separate next tier.

I don't think ND is a better team than UO because they beat Stanford and UO didn't. Both games were tight, went to OT, and were decided by one possession (and the ND game by a matter of inches). Functionally those are no different in determining the difference between ND/UO.
   1353. SoSH U at work Posted: November 27, 2012 at 03:40 PM (#4310761)
Both games were tight, went to OT, and were decided by one possession (and the ND game by a matter of inches).


And Oregon is probably in the title game if De'Anthony Thomas realizes that the players coming up from behind pose a greater threat to Marcus Mariota's touchdown run than the possibility that the Stanford band will try to re-enact their effort from the 1982 Big Game.
   1354. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: November 27, 2012 at 03:47 PM (#4310770)
You may be easing into more rational positions since being called on your idiocy, but let's not pretend you've been the voice of reason.


I am always the voice of reason. By definition.
   1355. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: November 27, 2012 at 04:00 PM (#4310780)
Yeah, I think the SEC, outside of the elite programs, isn't that attractive an option for many coaches. Sure, you get paid a ton, but who wants to take a job where you have to compete with full strength Florida, Georgia, LSU, Bama USCe, and now Texas A&M programs AND deal with the expectation of regularly competing for BCS bowls? The only job that doesn't look a temporary stop to getting fired is Kentucky, and they aren't real competitors for top level coaching prospects anyway.


Agreed. I can't imagine any "name brand" coach wanting to sign up for Auburn (as it's about to get hammered by the NCAA,) much less try to go into Kentucky and try to build a football recruiting program from the ground up. Those guys need to hire a career college guy that knows how to build a recruiting process, and eat the next 4 years or so. They don't need Jon Gruden. (Does anyone really need Jon Gruden?)
   1356. SoSH U at work Posted: November 27, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4310795)
Yeah, I think the SEC, outside of the elite programs, isn't that attractive an option for many coaches. Sure, you get paid a ton, but who wants to take a job where you have to compete with full strength Florida, Georgia, LSU, Bama USCe, and now Texas A&M programs AND deal with the expectation of regularly competing for BCS bowls? The only job that doesn't look a temporary stop to getting fired is Kentucky, and they aren't real competitors for top level coaching prospects anyway.


I agree, but I'd exclude Tennessee (and maybe Arkansas) from that analysis. There's no reason the Vols can't be good again (huge stadium, only major state university in a decent-sized state), particulary since the time will come when Spurrier steps down and S.C. reclaims its rightful place in the conference pecking order.
   1357. DA Baracus Posted: November 27, 2012 at 04:15 PM (#4310804)
Mike Stoops heads to Kentucky to expand the Stoops family empire.

They don't need Jon Gruden. (Does anyone really need Jon Gruden?)


Here's the thing everyone overlooks with hiring Gruden, whether it be a pro or college team: he's really bad at developing players. Really bad. He has had one offensive player drafted and developed under him that has gone to the Pro Bowl. Five total Pro Bowlers and two of them are special teamers. The best offensive player drafted under him in Tampa is... I don't even know, take your pick between Davin Joseph, Cadillac Williams, Jeremy Trueblood and Michael Clayton. A breathtaking group of talent right there. He is excellent at taking a veteran team to new heights, both in Tampa and Oakland his best players were almost exclusively veterans. And of course he never won a playoff game after winning the Super Bowl with Tony Dungy's team. He has no experience recruiting (being a GA 25 years ago doesn't count), couple that with a stunning lack of developing players and no AD should want him.
   1358. McCoy Posted: November 27, 2012 at 04:16 PM (#4310805)
Those guys need to hire a career college guy that knows how to build a recruiting process, and eat the next 4 years or so

They can have Edsell.
   1359. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 27, 2012 at 04:20 PM (#4310807)
Mike Stoops heads to Kentucky to expand the Stoops family empire.

Mark--not Mike
   1360. DA Baracus Posted: November 27, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4310809)
Whoops. They're so confusing!
   1361. Tripon Posted: November 27, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4310810)
Lane Kiffin probably would be interested in a SEC job since he knows he needs to have a great year at USC or he's getting his ass fired. But Kiffin back in the SEC would just be hilarious.
   1362. DA Baracus Posted: November 27, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4310814)
Kiffin is radioactive in the SEC. No one is taking him there for quite a few years, if ever.
   1363. AuntBea Posted: November 27, 2012 at 05:06 PM (#4310877)
With a loss to Texas, does K-State still get the BCS bid? Any chance the voters would take Clemson instead? (If Texas wins,most likely the winner of NIU/Kent St cannot reach 16, so K-State is probably safe there. On the other hand, there is a chance that a loss by Florida Sate or Nebraska could drop them past NIU/Kent St. But I don't think that is likely)
   1364. Tripon Posted: November 27, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4310885)
Here's the thing everyone overlooks with hiring Gruden, whether it be a pro or college team: he's really bad at developing players. Really bad. He has had one offensive player drafted and developed under him that has gone to the Pro Bowl. Five total Pro Bowlers and two of them are special teamers. The best offensive player drafted under him in Tampa is... I don't even know, take your pick between Davin Joseph, Cadillac Williams, Jeremy Trueblood and Michael Clayton. A breathtaking group of talent right there. He is excellent at taking a veteran team to new heights, both in Tampa and Oakland his best players were almost exclusively veterans. And of course he never won a playoff game after winning the Super Bowl with Tony Dungy's team. He has no experience recruiting (being a GA 25 years ago doesn't count), couple that with a stunning lack of developing players and no AD should want him.


This is why Gruden would be good with the Cowboys or Eagles. He can keep the teams from not screwing up, which is what both teams need.

edit: Also the Chargers.
   1365. Tripon Posted: November 27, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4310894)
What comes first, Bobby Peterino getting a SEC job, or Lane Kiffin getting fired?
   1366. Every Inge Counts Posted: November 27, 2012 at 05:27 PM (#4310902)
Southern Miss fires Ellis Johnson. No-brainer as they went from 12-2 to 0-12 and had their first losing season since 1993.
   1367. hokieneer Posted: November 27, 2012 at 05:30 PM (#4310906)
With a loss to Texas, does K-State still get the BCS bid?


When it comes to the BCS and KSU, it's safe to assume they will be screwed or passed over.
   1368. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 27, 2012 at 05:33 PM (#4310910)
Southern Miss fires Ellis Johnson. No-brainer as they went from 12-2 to 0-12 and had their first losing season since 1993.

Peter Principle at work--excellent as a def-con, useless as a HC
   1369. cmd600 Posted: November 27, 2012 at 06:44 PM (#4310987)
I don't think ND is a better team than UO because they beat Stanford and UO didn't. Both games were tight, went to OT, and were decided by one possession (and the ND game by a matter of inches). Functionally those are no different in determining the difference between ND/UO.


I agree with this. I think they're pretty much equals. Just that with the current setup, where even one loss can end your season, I don't see how you can put Oregon in the championship ahead of Notre Dame. And it has nothing to do with midwestern catholics having an unreasonable influence over the national media.
   1370. Mike Webber Posted: November 27, 2012 at 07:51 PM (#4311025)
With a loss to Texas, does K-State still get the BCS bid?



When it comes to the BCS and KSU, it's safe to assume they will be screwed or passed over.


Let me just tell you this, I have friends that I am going to the bowl game with, and if KSU doesn't win this weekend we fully expect to be going to the Alamo bowl. Not a BCS bowl, not the Cotton Bowl, but the Alamo.
   1371. Spivey Posted: November 27, 2012 at 08:32 PM (#4311045)
Let me just tell you this, I have friends that I am going to the bowl game with, and if KSU doesn't win this weekend we fully expect to be going to the Alamo bowl. Not a BCS bowl, not the Cotton Bowl, but the Alamo.


Very possible. The Cotton Bowl has a big time TV draw and I don't see them going for KSU over Texas. Also, you were there last year and this year I think KSU would view the Cotton as a disappointment rather than an accomplishment (like last year).

I think it's unlikely Texas beats KSU though. Though I guess Ash is the wild card. When he plays well, they win and when he doesn't they don't. Some of that is the team they're playing but some of it isn't. I think Texas has the skilled players to give KSU trouble - it's the QB's job to let them succeed.
   1372. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 27, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4311051)
I think it's unlikely Texas beats KSU though. Though I guess Ash is the wild card.

McCoy is starting
   1373. Mike Webber Posted: November 27, 2012 at 08:45 PM (#4311056)
Very possible. The Cotton Bowl has a big time TV draw and I don't see them going for KSU over Texas.

Another thing about this, there are only 2 bowl games that aren't ESPN/ABC, the Cotton and the Sun.

I agree that Fox would prefer the bigger state school, not sure if it helps the Dallas Hotel and Restaurant Retailers association as much though.
   1374. Every Inge Counts Posted: November 27, 2012 at 10:03 PM (#4311085)
Yeah loser of the SEC championship game has similar issue. Win and it is a national title game. Lose and you are playing some middling Big Ten team in Florida....
   1375. cmd600 Posted: November 27, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4311095)
1374 - That is nothing new though. Every bowl wants a non-Northwestern Big Ten team. Even the middling ones have little problem selling tickets at a vacation site over Winter break. The Big Ten always has to play up in bowl games.
   1376. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: November 27, 2012 at 11:15 PM (#4311104)
I'm sure someone's pointed this out, but if the playoffs started this year it would really be crazy. Florida would be essentially getting a free ride to the playoffs by staying home and letting one out of Alabama-Georgia knock each other off. Dropping from an at-large BCS to a Capital One Bowl stinks. Dropping out of the playoffs would be very frustrating.

Arkansas throwing big cash at Les Miles. The SEC is something else.
   1377. Spivey Posted: November 27, 2012 at 11:58 PM (#4311128)
1374 - That is nothing new though. Every bowl wants a non-Northwestern Big Ten team. Even the middling ones have little problem selling tickets at a vacation site over Winter break. The Big Ten always has to play up in bowl games.


Let's not go crazy here. The Outback and Capital One traditionally match up similarly ranked teams from each conference - if anything, it tends to match up "better" Big 10 teams because they get at-large BCS bids less often and the Cotton Bowl usually takes the best or second best non-BCS team from the SEC.
   1378. cmd600 Posted: November 28, 2012 at 12:40 AM (#4311142)
1377 - I did this without writing anything down, so I may be off, but I've got 26 BCS appearances for the Big 10, 24 for the SEC, 18 for the Big 12, and 15 for the ACC. The Big Ten gets a BCS bid for just about every one of it's eligible teams, they're playing up. And the Cotton Bowl usually just takes the best team available from the SEC West, the Capital One from the East.
   1379. SoSH U at work Posted: November 28, 2012 at 12:52 AM (#4311146)
Win and it is a national title game. Lose and you are playing some middling Big Ten team...


To be fair, that's also the fate that awaits one of the Rose Bowl participants.
   1380. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: November 28, 2012 at 01:16 AM (#4311150)
Not a BCS bowl, not the Cotton Bowl, but the Alamo.


14 years ago and that still stings. (and it should).
   1381. Tripon Posted: November 28, 2012 at 01:30 AM (#4311153)
Somebody actually wants Lies Miles?
   1382. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: November 28, 2012 at 02:38 AM (#4311174)
Arkansas is very desperate. Not saying this some wild idea, just that Arkansas very badly wants to succeed in football. Compare their efforts with Purdue, Illinois and other '2nd tier' conference programs. In a subtle, difficult to measure way, this is a big difference between the SEC and other leagues, the expectations are often way too high, but the effort is also very high. I haven't seen the current data recently, but no doubt they are paying a lot more for assistants than any other league.
   1383. steagles Posted: November 28, 2012 at 04:42 AM (#4311184)
bill o'brien was named the B1G coach of the year.
   1384. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: November 28, 2012 at 09:59 AM (#4311243)
I'm sure someone's pointed this out, but if the playoffs started this year it would really be crazy. Florida would be essentially getting a free ride to the playoffs by staying home and letting one out of Alabama-Georgia knock each other off. Dropping from an at-large BCS to a Capital One Bowl stinks. Dropping out of the playoffs would be very frustrating.

It's even worse for Georgia Tech. If they don't beat FSU and win the ACC they will be 6-7 and ineligible.
   1385. Every Inge Counts Posted: November 28, 2012 at 10:06 AM (#4311248)
It's even worse for Georgia Tech. If they don't beat FSU and win the ACC they will be 6-7 and ineligible.


They will do what UCLA did last season, apply for a waiver and play in a bowl game.
   1386. DA Baracus Posted: November 28, 2012 at 10:06 AM (#4311249)
Les Miles to Arkansas rumor is his agent getting Miles a better contract extension. It's so transparent it shouldn't work, but it will.
   1387. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: November 28, 2012 at 10:08 AM (#4311251)
No Louisville to the acc talk?

Gt has already applied for the waiver - mixed reports on whether or not it'll be granted.
   1388. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: November 28, 2012 at 10:17 AM (#4311259)
No Louisville to the acc talk?

just saw that... I remain confused as to why the Big 12 is standing on the sidelines right now. Louisville seems a natural fit for them.

Gt has already applied for the waiver - mixed reports on whether or not it'll be granted.

The NCAA created a new system to make more teams bowl eligible if need arises. What I read says GT would fall into the third group and is only supposed to get the waiver if there aren't enough teams to fill out the first two groups. I'm sure there's still a chance they get the waiver but it would be odd for the NCAA to create a new system and start making exceptions in year one.
   1389. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: November 28, 2012 at 10:25 AM (#4311265)
That's my take too, pops.
   1390. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: November 28, 2012 at 10:32 AM (#4311269)
It's even worse for Georgia Tech. If they don't beat FSU and win the ACC they will be 6-7 and ineligible.


Lost to Miami, at home.
Lost to Middle Tennessee State, at home.
Lost to BYU, at home, at ####### homecoming.

The Yellowjackets have no damned business in a bowl game this year.
   1391. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: November 28, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4311280)
So? When does deserving something have anything to do with college football?
   1392. DA Baracus Posted: November 28, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4311282)
A Big Ten team vs an ACC team for the Big East title on Saturday. Exciting.
   1393. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: November 28, 2012 at 10:53 AM (#4311287)
A Big Ten team vs an ACC team for the Big East title on Saturday. Exciting.


The Big East should be recruiting MAC and C-USA members heavily. And the Eagles. Though I'm not sure the Eagles o-line plays well against top tier conference opponents.
   1394. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: November 28, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4311322)
When does deserving something have anything to do with anything on the face of the Earth?


Fixed.
   1395. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: November 28, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4311415)
I'm virtually certain the Eagles o-line couldn't stop Jarvis Jones.
   1396. Kurt Posted: November 28, 2012 at 01:01 PM (#4311435)
I don't think ND is a better team than UO because they beat Stanford and UO didn't. Both games were tight, went to OT, and were decided by one possession (and the ND game by a matter of inches). Functionally those are no different in determining the difference between ND/UO.

If you're trying to determine in some abstract sense which team is "better" than yes, the Stanford games don't offer much if any evidence than ND is better than Oregon.

If you're trying to determine which of those teams should be in the championship game...winning the games counts right? They play the games and keep score for a reason.
   1397. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 28, 2012 at 01:01 PM (#4311436)
Heard this on the radio just now, every loss by a Big 12 team this year came against a bowl eligible team.

I don't have any idea if that is unusual, but it is interesting.


Try this, from the 1971 season when the top 3 teams were all from what was then the Big Eight Conference. There's never been a conference that's come close to this level of dominance. Look at what #1 Nebraska did to previously unbeaten Alabama in the Orange Bowl, and what #2 Oklahoma did to once-beaten (by Alabama) Auburn in the Sugar Bowl. It was if half the college talent in the entire country that year had been funneled into those three Big Eight teams.


1971- #1 Nebraska (Big 8)

9/11 vs. Oregon (5-6) W 34 7
9/18 vs. Minnesota (4-7) W 35 7
9/25 vs. Texas A&M (5-6) W 34 7
10/2 vs. Utah State (8-3) W 42 6
10/9 @ *Missouri (1-10) W 36 0
10/16 vs. *Kansas (4-7) W 55 0
10/23 @ *Oklahoma State (4-6-1) W 41 13
10/30 vs. *Colorado (10-2) W 31 7
11/6 vs. *Iowa State (8-4) W 37 0
11/13 @ *Kansas State (5-6) W 44 17
11/25 @ *Oklahoma (11-1) W 35 31
12/4 @ Hawaii (7-4) W 45 3
1/1 vs. Alabama (11-1) W 38 6 @ Miami, FL Orange Bowl

13-0-0

1971- #2 Oklahoma (Big 8)

9/18 vs. Southern Methodist (4-7) W 30 0
9/25 @ Pittsburgh (3-8) W 55 29
10/2 vs. Southern California (6-4-1) W 33 20
10/9 vs. Texas (8-3) W 48 27 @ Dallas, TX
10/16 vs. *Colorado (10-2) W 45 17
10/23 @ *Kansas State (5-6) W 75 28
10/30 vs. *Iowa State (8-4) W 43 12
11/6 @ *Missouri (1-10) W 20 3
11/13 vs. *Kansas (4-7) W 56 10
11/25 vs. *Nebraska (13-0) L 31 35
12/4 @ *Oklahoma State (4-6-1) W 58 14
1/1 vs. Auburn (9-2) W 40 22 @ New Orleans, LA Sugar Bowl

11-1-0


1971- #3 Colorado (Big 8)

9/11 @ Louisiana State (9-3) W 31 21
9/18 vs. Wyoming (5-6) W 56 13
9/25 @ Ohio State (6-4) W 20 14
10/2 vs. *Kansas State (5-6) W 31 21
10/9 @ *Iowa State (8-4) W 24 14
10/16 @ *Oklahoma (11-1) L 17 45
10/23 vs. *Missouri (1-10) W 27 7
10/30 @ *Nebraska (13-0) L 7 31
11/6 @ *Kansas (4-7) W 35 14
11/13 vs. *Oklahoma State (4-6-1) W 40 6
11/20 vs. Air Force (6-4) W 53 17
12/31 vs. Houston (9-3) W 29 17 @ Houston, TX Bluebonnet Bowl

10-2-0
   1398. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 28, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4311438)
The real BCS championship game should be between 12-0 Notre Dame and 12-0 Ohio State. The others can fight over the Pythagorean title.
   1399. hokieneer Posted: November 28, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4311446)
If you're trying to determine in some abstract sense which team is "better" than yes, the Stanford games don't offer much if any evidence than ND is better than Oregon.

If you're trying to determine which of those teams should be in the championship game...winning the games counts right? They play the games and keep score for a reason.


Yeah I agree with that, "better" and "BCS NC game participant" are two different things.
   1400. SoSH U at work Posted: November 28, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4311450)
The real BCS championship game should be between 12-0 Notre Dame and 12-0 Ohio State. The others can fight over the Pythagorean title.


Screw probation, running the table in the Big Ten this year, particularly as unimpressively as Ohio State managed it, doesn't earn one a berth in the national title game.
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