Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, November 01, 2012

OT: November College Football Thread.

Alabama Is still Ranked #1.  Will they hold steady to repeat? Make it to the title game?  Or does another team claim the Crystal ball in Miami in January.

odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: November 01, 2012 at 01:43 PM | 3408 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: college football

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 18 of 35 pages ‹ First  < 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 >  Last ›
   1701. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: December 02, 2012 at 10:44 PM (#4314836)
I'm not a fan of the Sugar Bowl. It's boring. The Superdome is bland and anti-septic.

Growing up, I went to the Sugar Bowl about every year. The Dome is indeed bland and anti-septic, but if you get a full house, and the crowds into it the noise is ridiculous. The Alabama-Miami game (the George Teague game) was possibly the loudest crowd I've ever heard at a sporting event. Georgia-Notre Dame was also a great environment and a pretty evenly divided crowd. My lasting memory of that game (besides my god-like reverence for Herschel) was seeing a Georgia DB use the down lineman's back as a vault in order to block a ND field goal attempt.
   1702. McCoy Posted: December 02, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4314837)
Well, now we'll see how well NIU travels. NIU is not exactly an "elite" school and I don't know if a bunch of social workers and teachers can actually afford to head down to Miami for the game with only a month of notice.
   1703. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4314845)
Well, now we'll see how well NIU travels. NIU is not exactly an "elite" school and I don't know if a bunch of social workers and teachers can actually afford to head down to Miami for the game with only a month of notice.

Well, it's not like the alumni would take a chance on a better Bowl next year. You'd think anyone with any interest would seize the opportunity for a once in a lifetime experience, assuming they can afford it. Locals that like underdogs might buy some tickets, too.
   1704. McCoy Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:09 PM (#4314848)
It has nothing to do with waiting a year or not. NIU is not a historically major football school or a major college in general. It is a local regional state school that produces largely solidly middle class graduates that are not great in numbers compared to major colleges.
   1705. hokieneer Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:15 PM (#4314851)
Wait a minute I just realized that Baylor is going to the Holiday bowl and Texas to the Alamo bowl. So I guess that means Baylor was invited over Texas and WVU?
   1706. zenbitz Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:31 PM (#4314855)
It seems dumb that neither Oregon nor KSU plays Georgia or Florida.
   1707. steagles Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:35 PM (#4314860)
It seems dumb that neither Oregon nor KSU plays Georgia or Florida.
isn't that the best case scenario for the SEC? if they don't play, they can't win, and if they don't win, they can't say they're better.
   1708. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:35 PM (#4314861)
NIU has 22,000 students, 225,000 alumni & almost 5,000 faculty/staff. That would seem like a large enough pool to draw on for a nice warm weather vacation over New Years. Those folks should be highly motivated since they don't get the opportunity, with the football tie-in, often - meaning ever before.
   1709. McCoy Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4314864)
Something like a quarter of all living alumni have to buy tickets and bring friends to meet the school's obligation.
   1710. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:42 PM (#4314866)
for people as old as I am, the Sugar Bowl was played in the "Sugar Bowl" aka Tulane Stadium
   1711. cmd600 Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:45 PM (#4314867)
that probably saves them some money considering the number of tickets that the schools usually have to buy as a condition of being invited to a bowl.


That game is in Louisiana though, and about an hour and a half away from LA Tech. If there was any game that LA Tech could sell the tickets for, its that one.

Locals that like underdogs might buy some tickets, too.


We're talking about Miami here. Those fans barely root for their own heavy favorites.
   1712. McCoy Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:48 PM (#4314870)
Last year Virginia Tech couldn't even come close to selling their allotted amount of tickets to the Orange Bowl and took a huge financial hit because of that. Virginia Tech is a larger school than NIU, is closer to Miami, and it is cheaper to get to Miami than from Northern Illinois yet they didn't come out for the game. UConn a couple of year earlier took a bath because of unsold tickets for their Fiesta Bowl appearances. Teams with non-major football programs should really think twice when they are accepting bowl invitations, especially nowadays when the secondary market is so easy to access.
   1713. theboyqueen Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:53 PM (#4314876)
Not only does Alabama get to play Notre Dame but Florida - Louisville? Georgia - Nebraska? Ugh.

Oregon just strikes me as gimmicky and I don't have much confidence in them beating a major team given time to prepare, but I would love to see Stanford or K-State, play one of these SEC teams. This is one year where I don't know how anyone has any idea how the SEC would do against the other conferences that are actually any good, and these bowl matchups seem designed precisely not to answer that question.
   1714. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:05 AM (#4314890)
UF -15.5, Bama -8.5, UGA -11.5, UO -9, Stan -8.5, FSU -14.5

can't remember a slate this heavy on 10+ faves ATS.
   1715. cmd600 Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:16 AM (#4314903)
Last year Virginia Tech couldn't even come close to selling their allotted amount of tickets to the Orange Bowl and took a huge financial hit because of that. Virginia Tech is a larger school than NIU, is closer to Miami, and it is cheaper to get to Miami than from Northern Illinois yet they didn't come out for the game. UConn a couple of year earlier took a bath because of unsold tickets for their Fiesta Bowl appearances. Teams with non-major football programs should really think twice when they are accepting bowl invitations, especially nowadays when the secondary market is so easy to access.


If you're not selling tickets for the Orange Bowl, then you're not selling tickets for the godaddy.com bowl. At least the former is something you can tell recruits and alumni when soliciting donations.
   1716. Spivey Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:43 AM (#4314922)
Wait a minute I just realized that Baylor is going to the Holiday bowl and Texas to the Alamo bowl. So I guess that means Baylor was invited over Texas and WVU?


Alamo Bowl gets the choice over the Holiday Bowl now. Baylor absolutely should be in a better bowl than WVU though.
   1717. hokieneer Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:51 AM (#4314924)
Alamo Bowl gets the choice over the Holiday Bowl now.


I'm new to the conference, still learning these details.


Baylor absolutely should be in a better bowl than WVU though.


Probably so. I was just going on the assumption that once you get past the 3rd/4th place bowl tie ins, bowls start looking at travel and tv exposure more than just conference standings (the reason why Ok. St is in a bowl I've never heard of). Baylor would probably travel better or at least the same as WVU to SD, and both schools have top flight entertaining offenses for TV. Maybe WVU has a little more "star" power with Geno, Tavon, and Bailey, but it's hard for me to accurately make these judgments as a fan.
   1718. Spivey Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:57 AM (#4314928)
OU vs A&M. It should be a good game but it is hard to get excited for a bowl game featuring your two biggest rivals.
   1719. Spivey Posted: December 03, 2012 at 01:03 AM (#4314933)
I actually am pretty excited about Texas/Oregon State.

I think KSU is going to struggle against Oregon, but I'm rooting for them.
   1720. Spivey Posted: December 03, 2012 at 01:09 AM (#4314936)
Ok St/Purdue and USC/Georgia Tech are two of the most lopsided bowls I've ever seen.
   1721. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: December 03, 2012 at 01:26 AM (#4314940)
I actually am pretty excited about Texas/Oregon State.


Why? You love to see Big 12 schools pummeled?
   1722. Tripon Posted: December 03, 2012 at 01:28 AM (#4314942)
I love to see Pac 12 schools do the pummeling.
   1723. McCoy Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:14 AM (#4314957)
If you're not selling tickets for the Orange Bowl, then you're not selling tickets for the godaddy.com bowl. At least the former is something you can tell recruits and alumni when soliciting donations.

But the college isn't required to sell as many tickets to the GoDaddy.com bowl as they are for one of the major BCS bowls which is why I said if you aren't one of the major football schools you should really think twice before accepting a BCS bowl invitation. Even Stanford fell short by about half the amount they needed to sell for last year's Orange Bowl and had to eat the tickets.
   1724. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:30 AM (#4314967)
Wait a minute I just realized that Baylor is going to the Holiday bowl and Texas to the Alamo bowl. So I guess that means Baylor was invited over Texas and WVU?

With so many 7-5 teams, they seemed to place a ton of emphasis on the teams finished the year.

The Syracuse matchup is not good. A 7-5 team that is better than it's record but not in a way that anyone recognizes (one spot behind Louisville in Sagarin, although that still only gets them to 54). At least they will get a chance to end their 2 game skid against the Orange, I guess.

I'm really excited for the Cotton Bowl, that's going to almost make up for losing out on OU-Florida in the Sugar Bowl. The Outback Bowl looks like it could be interesting. The Holiday and Alamo Bowls are pretty interesting matchups. I'm inclined to think the Pac-12 has the advantage, but I could see both Big 12 teams winning. On the non-BCS side, Utah St.-Toledo could be good.

What are the odds Dave Doeren ever makes a BCS bowl at NC State? I wonder if he just blew his only chance to coach in one.
   1725. McCoy Posted: December 03, 2012 at 03:14 AM (#4314978)
I think the pile of cash will keep him warm at night.

Coaches leaving NIU before a bowl game is going to be a common theme for them as they are a lower tier team and any college with a big enough purse from their boosters is going to steal NIU's coaches away from them the moment they anything close to good.
   1726. Spivey Posted: December 03, 2012 at 09:15 AM (#4315017)
I don't see how Oregon State is going to pummel Texas. Oregon State pummeled one FBS school all year, a 3-9 Cal team. They struggled against WSU. They're a good team, but not a team that has blown anyone solid out. Sagarin has them as about a 3 point favorite on a neutral field. That sounds about right, to me.
   1727. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: December 03, 2012 at 09:27 AM (#4315021)
Locals that like underdogs might buy some tickets, too.



We're talking about Miami here. Those fans barely root for their own heavy favorites.


Nobody down here actually buys tickets for the Orange Bowl. There's so many free tickets floating around, my only concern whether to go or not is if I want to drive 2 hours one way.
   1728. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: December 03, 2012 at 09:29 AM (#4315024)
But the college isn't required to sell as many tickets to the GoDaddy.com bowl as they are for one of the major BCS bowls which is why I said if you aren't one of the major football schools you should really think twice before accepting a BCS bowl invitation. Even Stanford fell short by about half the amount they needed to sell for last year's Orange Bowl and had to eat the tickets.


Again, why the hell aren't schools compensated for all expenses before dividing up the proceeds among the conference schools? It makes no sense that the last place school with 0 bowl expenses gets as much money as the school which actually went.
   1729. Mike Webber Posted: December 03, 2012 at 11:02 AM (#4315096)
Again, why the hell aren't schools compensated for all expenses before dividing up the proceeds among the conference schools? It makes no sense that the last place school with 0 bowl expenses gets as much money as the school which actually went.


I don't know, but I bet it is something like, Big State Univ. says, "You ####### got lucky and won the conference. When we won we sold all the damn tickets, so selling the tickets is on you. You are short on funds? Instead of giving your players I-Pods and feeding them steak give them a Speak and Say and drive through Hardees. Screw staying at the Hilton, your team hotel should be Motel 6."

Seriously though, there is tons of money spent at these things, and if you need to shore it up somewhere, do it. It's a bowl game not the Federal Budget.

   1730. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: December 03, 2012 at 11:12 AM (#4315106)
Again, why the hell aren't schools compensated for all expenses before dividing up the proceeds among the conference schools? It makes no sense that the last place school with 0 bowl expenses gets as much money as the school which actually went.


This is exactly how it happens in the Pac 12. I imagine that the other conferences do this as well.
   1731. Mike Webber Posted: December 03, 2012 at 11:26 AM (#4315122)
Ripping off post 1690's idea:
here's the Sagarin predictor lines for the Big 12 games:

Bowl         Big 12    Sagarin Opponent Vegas
Fiesta       KSU          2.66 Oregon      9
Cotton       OU           2.35 Texas A
&M   6
Alamo        UT           3.35 Oresgon St
4
BuffaloWW    TCU         
-4.18 Michigan St -4.5
Holiday      Baylor      
-0.65 UCLA       ??
Texas        Texas Tech -14.62 Minnesota  ??
Pin Stripe   WVU         -4.97 Syracuse  -7
Hrt Dallas   Ok St      
-18.23 Purdue    -14.5
Liberty      ISU         
-4.62 Tulsa     -3.5 

   1732. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 03, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4315131)
purdue is going to a bowl game?

minnesota?

what?????
   1733. Spivey Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4315174)
Baylor/UCLA should be a lot of fun.
   1734. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4315215)
purdue is going to a bowl game?

minnesota?

what?????


Big Ten stinks as it is. Then take OSU/PSU out and bump all the junk teams up two spots in the bowl pecking order and it's set up for a big old mess.
   1735. Eddo Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4315346)
What are the odds Dave Doeren ever makes a BCS bowl at NC State? I wonder if he just blew his only chance to coach in one.

I'm guessing he hopes NC State is simply a stepping stone.
   1736. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4315357)
The best team in the B1G staying home. The B1G sending a 5-loss team to the Rose Bowl. The SEC teams not getting paired up against Oregon or Stanford so they can keep running their mouths. Northern Illinois, which lost to Iowa, in a BCS bowl.

This is the worst bowl season of the modern bowl era, which started January 1, 1976. Awful.

Unfortunately, the playoff would be no better -- why Florida?, who between Oregon and Stanford? -- and would still be riddled with controversy.
   1737. zonk Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4315366)

Again, why the hell aren't schools compensated for all expenses before dividing up the proceeds among the conference schools? It makes no sense that the last place school with 0 bowl expenses gets as much money as the school which actually went.


I'm pretty sure that this is exactly how the B1G10 handles it - costs and proceeds are evenly divided amongst member schools.
   1738. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 03, 2012 at 03:17 PM (#4315470)
I would surprised if unsold tickets were an allowable deduction, though.
   1739. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 03, 2012 at 03:19 PM (#4315475)
Also, considering the fact that FSU can't fill its own stadium, I'm thinking their game with NIU is a stone cold lock for worst attendance in the BCS era despite the fact it's being played in a team's home state.
   1740. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 03, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4315483)
Northern Illinois, which lost to Iowa, in a BCS bowl.


Of course, it could've been Kent State, which got trucked by Kentucky.
   1741. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4315491)
It's just like the BCS to screw deserving teams like some of the Boise State teams year after year, and Utah in 2008, only to "solve" the problem by making the system have to take a one-loss MAC team.
   1742. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4315495)
In the 4 x 16 brave new world that everyone knows is coming, Wisconsin would be a "semifinalist" in the "national championship" "playoff."

Wow! Awesome!!
   1743. McCoy Posted: December 03, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4315512)
I'm pretty sure that this is exactly how the B1G10 handles it - costs and proceeds are evenly divided amongst member schools.

I'm pretty sure tickets are exclude from that though. If you can't sell your allotment that is on you and not the rest of the conference.
   1744. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: December 03, 2012 at 04:26 PM (#4315576)
Again, why the hell aren't schools compensated for all expenses before dividing up the proceeds among the conference schools?

A bigger question is why conferences continue to have bowl agreements that stipulate they buy large numbers of tickets. And they are terrible seats. The schools really need to tell the bowls to go F themselves.
   1745. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 03, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4315592)
There are rumors that ND's defensive coordinator may be leaving for Boston College.

Those jerks spoil everything.
   1746. zonk Posted: December 03, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4315601)
I'm pretty sure tickets are exclude from that though. If you can't sell your allotment that is on you and not the rest of the conference.


I might be wrong, since I haven't had 'Cats season tickets in a fair while -- but I have a vague recollection that at least some bowl allocations were divvied up to other B1G10 schools. That recollection might pre-date the BCS, though, but I do remember getting some Wisconsin friends tickets to either the 99 or 00 Rose Bowl via the NU ticket office. It might also have been overflow or a very limited number... that was many, many beers -- I mean, years -- ago.
   1747. McCoy Posted: December 03, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4315603)
A bigger question is why conferences continue to have bowl agreements that stipulate they buy large numbers of tickets. And they are terrible seats. The schools really need to tell the bowls to go F themselves.

At this point the super conferences should just create their own Bowls. The Big-Ten, Pac-12, SEC, ACC, and Big 12 are big enough and diverse enough that combined they can come up with a bunch of Bowls in desirable locations that are owned by the schools and controlled by the conferences.
   1748. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: December 03, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4315607)
purdue is going to a bowl game?

minnesota?

what?????


Bowl games are like participation trophies, Harv. Every 6-win program gets one or else the coaching staff's self-esteem starts to drop.
   1749. spike Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4315611)
The SEC teams not getting paired up against Oregon or Stanford so they can keep running their mouths

Boy no kidding. You'd think after three straight losses to the SEC, Oregon fans would shut up.
   1750. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:05 PM (#4315613)
There are rumors that ND's defensive coordinator may be leaving for Boston College.

Diaco should hold out for a better job.
   1751. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:06 PM (#4315615)
Boy no kidding. You'd think after three straight losses to the SEC, Oregon fans would shut up.

As Oregon's blowout at Tennessee in 2010 is airbrushed from history like Utah's blowout of Alabama in the Sugar Bowl ....
   1752. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:07 PM (#4315616)
Boy no kidding. You'd think after three straight losses to the SEC, Oregon fans would shut up.


You don't understand. The Ducks play UPTEMPO man. UPTEMPO!! Which is about regular speed in the SEC.

I was about to ask if anyone remember the beat down Oregon got the last time they lined up against the big boys.
   1753. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:10 PM (#4315618)
As Oregon's blowout at Tennessee in 2010 is airbrushed from history like Utah's blowout of Alabama in the Sugar Bowl ....


Yes. Oregon can beat a Volunteer team that goes 3-5 in the league. Woot for them.
   1754. smileyy Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4315622)
Bowl games are about money, not merit. I'm not even sure why the wins restriction exists on them.
   1755. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4315623)
Yes. Oregon can beat a Volunteer team that goes 3-5 in the league. Woot for them.

Oh, yeah, the only games that count are when the SEC wins. The iron rule of football.

   1756. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:15 PM (#4315627)
And when Michigan State beats the SEC East champs in the South that doesn't count because just look how fast Georgia was.

   1757. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4315629)
Oh, yeah, the only games that count are when the SEC wins. The iron rule of football.


No, the iron rule of football is that fans of teams outside of the SEC will ##### and moan because the SEC gets the respect it rightly deserves as a semi-pro feeder league to the NFL. You were citing the Ducks' win against TN as an example of Oregon competing with the top fo that conference, when it clearly wasn't.

Oregon's a good team with a fantastic program under Chip Kelly. They, like Texas A&M, would compete in the SEC. They would not dominate the way they do in the PAC12.
   1758. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4315631)
Boy no kidding. You'd think after three straight losses to the SEC, Oregon fans would shut up.

Did anyone really get the sense that Oregon was worse than Auburn in the championship game? They were a fluky non-tackle away from having a shot to win or going to OT in that game.

It's absolutely true that the SEC plays only two of the best six non-SEC (non-ACC teams) during bowl season. And that's a shame, because if the second best opponent the SEC gets in the bowls is Nebraska or Michigan, we don't really get to know how their 6 top 12 teams stack up against the other really good football teams in the country. It would be great if the SEC was matched up with the PAC-12 and Big-12 more often and it would remove a lot of the skepticism the rest of the country has about the SEC if they continued to win those.
   1759. ASmitty Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:20 PM (#4315634)
Didn't Oregon nearly beat an undefeated Auburn team for the national championship like...two years ago?

The SEC is the best conference in football, but pretending that Oregon can't even compete is silly. Especially this year, when I think the SEC is less imposing as it has been in the past few years.

EDIT: I missed the "would compete" part. Too much coffee today.
   1760. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4315639)
You were citing the Ducks' win against TN as an example of Oregon competing with the top fo that conference, when it clearly wasn't.

No, I was citing it becuase Oregon hasn't lost its last three games agaisnt SEC teams.

They competed perfectly fine with Auburn in the 2010 NC game, too.

Look, the SEC being good in football isn't going to change the outcome of the War of Northern Aggression, or make up for the fact that they played Whiteyball until about 1975.
   1761. SoSH U at work Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4315641)
Boy no kidding. You'd think after three straight losses to the SEC, Oregon fans would shut up.


Am I missing a game? Oregon's lost twice to SEC teams under Kelly: the 22-19 title game and the loss to eventual runner-up LSU last year in which Oregon outgained the Tigers but committed four TOs. Non-fluke losses, no doubt, but I'm not really seeing either as a beatdown.
   1762. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:25 PM (#4315643)
Look, the SEC being good in football isn't going to change the outcome of the War of Northern Aggression


Nor will your snark and regionalism change the fact that the SEC has been the most dominant football conference in college football for decades, and is primed to continue that domination for years to come.
   1763. spike Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:27 PM (#4315645)
but pretending that Oregon can't even compete is silly

No one said that - but the notion that the SEC somehow dodged a bullet and can "continue to run their mouths" by not drawing Stanford/Oregon is preposterous. SEC homerism can be a drag, to be sure, but the rank haterism and wishcasting is as bad, if not worse, because it just reeks of envy.
   1764. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4315654)
Diaco should hold out for a better job.

He's from the Northeast and apparently this job has some personal appeal for him.

Anyway, the rumor sez that if Al Golden turns them down (which is basically certain) then Diaco is next on the list. I'm really hoping he decides to wait for Iowa (where he played) to come open.
   1765. ASmitty Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4315657)
because it just reeks of envy


Some of it surely does, but not all. Last year we were "treated" to a rematch in the NC game after the previous year was a very entertaining game between Auburn and Oregon. This year, had Notre Dame lost to USC, we may have been looking at Alabama and Florida in the NC game. It's boring, and it's self-fulfilling. I don't care about the SEC running its mouth because my self worth isn't tied up in the exploits of football teams I don't play on, but I do like watching football. If the bowl games aren't set up to challenge the SEC, how will anyone ever be able to dispute their dominance?

Last year the SEC champ played an SEC divisonal runner-up in the championship, while the other SEC finalist lost to the Big 10 runner-up. SEC teams can be beaten by outside teams, but not if they only play each other or get paired up against teams that aren't the best available opponents.
   1766. cmd600 Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4315658)
SEC has been the most dominant football conference in college football for decades


What? Sure, they've been good, and especially so recently. But from 1981 to 2002 the SEC was certainly not the most dominant conference, and before then, anyone who thinks they have any idea is only fooling themselves.
   1767. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4315661)
well, that's ridiculous. purdue and minnesota are dreadful.
   1768. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4315664)
What are the odds Dave Doeren ever makes a BCS bowl at NC State? I wonder if he just blew his only chance to coach in one.


NC State's not hopeless. They've gone to bowl games the last three years, and would have played in the ACC championship game in 2010 if it weren't for a close loss at Maryland late in the year. NCSU is a little screwed by having FSU (and Clemson) in the same division, but it's not an awesome league. In the other division I'd say that if Doeren can consistently generate teams in the #20-30 range nationally then he'll get a few shots in the league championship game. FSU complicates this somewhat, but most of the rest of the league is down more than it is up.

In summary, Wake Forest played in the 2007 Orange Bowl.

   1769. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:47 PM (#4315666)
NIU is giving its student a free ticket to the orange bowl there allotment was 17,500
   1770. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 05:47 PM (#4315667)
It's boring, and it's self-fulfilling.

SEC "dominance" is based on an almost entirely self-referential feedback loop. Last year's NC game is a perfect example, and this year's bowl matchups perpetuate it. The B1G's bowl trips are all mumbled up with Ohio being out of it and Wisky going to the Rose, making matters worse.
   1771. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 03, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4315684)
Anyway, the rumor sez that if Al Golden turns them down (which is basically certain) then Diaco is next on the list. I'm really hoping he decides to wait for Iowa (where he played) to come open.

Interesting. Well, he's the kind of coach BC needs. He did wonders at Cincinnati with some very mid-tier recruits.

NC State's not hopeless. They've gone to bowl games the last three years, and would have played in the ACC championship game in 2010 if it weren't for a close loss at Maryland late in the year. NCSU is a little screwed by having FSU (and Clemson) in the same division, but it's not an awesome league.

I agree, if Doeren is really a special coach, NC State could easily win the ACC. But it's also true that the program has won double digit games once (wow, once, I did not expect that, I was going to type once since...but it's only been once). If Doeren is a great coach, he will continue to have his shots, I'm just not sure he's a great coach yet.

Just shooting the breeze mostly.
   1772. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: December 03, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4315689)
well, that's ridiculous. purdue and minnesota are dreadful.


Let's talk about Duke. Duke finished 3-5 in a bad conference and lost 5 out of their last 6. They lost the four games they played to ranked teams by 21, 36, 37, and 41. They beat two teams with winning records. One of these was UNC (by 3 in a last-minute fluke), the other was North Carolina Central, who finished 6-5 in the MEAC. Their second-best win was probably the win over Wake Forest. They're terrible and they're going to play Cincinnati in the Belk Bowl.

If you're from a major conference and get to 6 wins before you get yourself put on probation then you're going to a bowl game. It's stupid, but there it is.
   1773. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 03, 2012 at 06:24 PM (#4315716)
SEC "dominance" is based on an almost entirely self-referential feedback loop. Last year's NC game is a perfect example, and this year's bowl matchups perpetuate it. The B1G's bowl trips are all mumbled up with Ohio being out of it and Wisky going to the Rose, making matters worse.


and the Big Ten kind of sucks.
   1774. McCoy Posted: December 03, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4315721)
NIU is giving its student a free ticket to the orange bowl there allotment was 17,500

That isn't a good sign. The 17,500 is the standard allotment for BCS bowls and if they really are giving all of there students a free ticket that basically means that NIU is eating all 17,500 tickets.

Looked into it and it appears that they are giving tickets to students that can actually get down to Miami and attend the game. So far about 500 students have reserved a free ticket. It doesn't really look like that big of deal.
   1775. McCoy Posted: December 03, 2012 at 06:33 PM (#4315733)
I agree, if Doeren is really a special coach, NC State could easily win the ACC. But it's also true that the program has won double digit games once (wow, once, I did not expect that, I was going to type once since...but it's only been once). If Doeren is a great coach, he will continue to have his shots, I'm just not sure he's a great coach yet.

Just shooting the breeze mostly.


I think the jury is still out on Doeren. We have no real idea on how well he coaches and develops players. He hasn't been a head coach long enough and hasn't been at NIU long enough for us to get any real sense on how good he is at that kind of stuff. He's basically winning with a roster he inherited from Jerry Kill and I think almost all of the top players on defense and the key players on offense are guys recruited and developed by Kill.
   1776. Howie Menckel Posted: December 03, 2012 at 06:38 PM (#4315746)

tweet from a gambling guy

David Payne Purdum ?@DavidPurdum

Only 4 conferences have a winning record against the spread in bowls since 04: SEC 37-28, MWC 25-14, Sun Belt 8-7-1 and Big East 21-16.
   1777. Howling John Shade Posted: December 03, 2012 at 06:47 PM (#4315756)
Oregon's a good team with a fantastic program under Chip Kelly. They, like Texas A&M, would compete in the SEC. They would not dominate the way they do in the PAC12.


This is also ridiculous. Especially in a year when they didn't even win their division in the Pac-12. The Pac-12 has 3 legitimate contender programs in Oregon, Stanford and USC (especially when they get their scholarships back). And the likes of Oregon State, UCLA don't exactly suck.

I think the SEC is legitimately a slightly better league, but, as others have pointed out, the reason SEC bias/homerism is so frustrating in college football is that it actually affects the outcome. When Pac-12 and SEC teams have similar resumes, the SEC team goes to the national championship game. When they win the game (often against an opponent that either team would have been favored over) that is then used as a reason to deny the Pac-12 team the next time.

2012: Alabama (12-1) goes over Oregon (11-1)
2011: Alabama goes over Stanford (and Ok State) - all 11-1
2008: Florida (12-1) goes over USC (11-1)
2007: LSU (11-2) goes over USC (10-2)
2003: LSU (12-1) goes over USC (11-1)

Some (most?) of these were probably the right call. But it always goes one way. In terms of knowing that the SEC is the better conference, it's almost impossible to tell because they never play each other. Since 1998 the Pac-whatever is 12-10 vs the SEC in inter-conference play and 0-1 in bowl games.

Is that actually right? Auburn/Oregon is the only bowl game between the conferences in the last 14 years? College football is stupid.


   1778. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 03, 2012 at 06:50 PM (#4315761)
I think the jury is still out on Doeren. We have no real idea on how well he coaches and develops players. He hasn't been a head coach long enough and hasn't been at NIU long enough for us to get any real sense on how good he is at that kind of stuff. He's basically winning with a roster he inherited from Jerry Kill and I think almost all of the top players on defense and the key players on offense are guys recruited and developed by Kill.

Exactly what I was thinking. And I think while O'Brien left some talent, a lot of that team is seniors and Doeren is going to have to start building immediately. It will be interesting to see how Doeren does going forward.
   1779. McCoy Posted: December 03, 2012 at 06:56 PM (#4315765)
My view has always been that Pac-12 teams were designed to play and beat Pac-12 teams. Big Ten teams were designed to play and beat Big Ten teams, SEC teams were designed to play and beat SEC teams. If you were to force these teams to play each other more often I think we would see greater diversity in team building but right now winning the conference is so important and teams play so few out of conference games that it would foolish to build your teams to do anything other than to compete within your division. This problem is one of the reasons why I'm so impressed with what Notre Dame has been able to do recently and historically. Notre Dame traditionally has behaved like a Big Ten team and has been successful against teams from numerous conferences.
   1780. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 07:12 PM (#4315777)
2008: Florida (12-1) goes over USC (11-1)

And over Utah (12-0, defense anchored by high draft picks Paul Kruger, Sean Smith, and Koa Misi). The Utes obviously belonged in the final.

   1781. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 07:20 PM (#4315788)
Is that actually right? Auburn/Oregon is the only bowl game between the conferences in the last 14 years? College football is stupid.

The BCS and bowl conference tie-ins have ratified SEC self-referential blabbery and brought us a sampling of really boring bowls in the last few years. I don't think a rigorous review supports the proposition that the current system is any better than the old play the bowls and vote at the end system. At the very least, that system gave you another important data point -- the bowls -- to use in voting that the current system lacks.
   1782. zenbitz Posted: December 03, 2012 at 07:31 PM (#4315803)
In terms of knowing that the SEC is the better conference, it's almost impossible to tell because they never play each other. Since 1998 the Pac-whatever is 12-10 vs the SEC in inter-conference play and 0-1 in bowl games.

Is that actually right? Auburn/Oregon is the only bowl game between the conferences in the last 14 years? College football is stupid.


Boosting the signal.

The data to conclude that the SEC is better than the Pac-12 this year does not exist. I actually think that Alabama/Georgia/Florida/Texas A&M *would* probably beat Oregon/Stanford/Oregon State/UCLA. But thinking it and showing it on the field are not the same thing.

Again, I ask - what were the games between SEC and Pac-12 this year? I guess there are a few dozen "common opponent" games...

Ironically, in Men's Basketball I think there is a substantial pro-pac-12 (well pac-10 anyway) bias in tournament selection and pre-season rankings. Arizona and UCLA (and more recently USC) tend to underperform in the tournament (ancedotal feeling only).
   1783. DA Baracus Posted: December 03, 2012 at 07:35 PM (#4315807)
2012: Alabama (12-1) goes over Oregon (11-1)
2011: Alabama goes over Stanford (and Ok State) - all 11-1
2008: Florida (12-1) goes over USC (11-1)
2007: LSU (11-2) goes over USC (10-2)
2003: LSU (12-1) goes over USC (11-1)


In 2003 LSU was #2 and Oklahoma was #3 after the conference championships (going by the AP poll via Sports Reference). Oklahoma should have been bumped out, not LSU. In 2007, USC was #6, they moved up to #3 after the bowls because #3 Oklahoma and #5 Virginia Tech lost their bowl games and of course #1 Ohio State lost. In 2008 Florida was #1 after two weeks of being #2 and beating #1 Alabama. Oklahoma moved from #4 to #2 after beating #19 Missouri which leap frogged them over idle #3 Texas. USC was #5.

I agree that there is SEC bias, but I don't think the Pac-12 has been screwed out of it in those years or this year. Last year, yes, although I thought Alabama-LSU was the two best teams anyway.

And over Utah (12-0, defense anchored by high draft picks Paul Kruger, Sean Smith, and Koa Misi). The Utes obviously belonged in the final.


Utah entered the bowl #7, then moved all the way up to #2 because, wait for it, they beat Alabama. The SEC overrating works both ways.
   1784. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 07:41 PM (#4315811)
Utah entered the bowl #7, then moved all the way up to #2 because, wait for it, they beat Alabama. The SEC overrating works both ways.

They should have been #1. /sm They were the only unbeaten team in the country and smoked the team that was #1 for almost all the second half of the year.

There isn't enough data to make any of these judgments. The SEC very well might be the best conference this year, or any other year in the past 20, but you can't really tell, by any means even approaching rigor.(*) It's supposed to be fun.

(*) And it isn't going to be any better with the playoff.
   1785. Howling John Shade Posted: December 03, 2012 at 07:42 PM (#4315812)
Pointing to the polls as evidence that the SEC team was better/more deserving is begging the question.
   1786. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 07:44 PM (#4315817)
The list in 1777 forgot the worst one of all:

2006: Florida (one loss) jumps #2 Michigan (one loss) in the final week when Michigan doesn't play.(*)

(And thus is born the B1G championship game, played this year in front of tens of thousands of fans dressed up as empty seats.)

(*) No one wants to see a rematch in the final, scream the SEC blabbermouths -- unless of course it's two SEC teams, then it's only fair. Serenity now.

   1787. Howling John Shade Posted: December 03, 2012 at 07:51 PM (#4315826)
The data to conclude that the SEC is better than the Pac-12 this year does not exist. I actually think that Alabama/Georgia/Florida/Texas A&M *would* probably beat Oregon/Stanford/Oregon State/UCLA. But thinking it and showing it on the field are not the same thing.


Right, if I had to guess, I would take the SEC in 3 of those 4 (I would slightly favor Stanford over GA). But I'm completely guessing.
   1788. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4315829)
And that leaves out USC who, with Barkley healthy and a real coach, would be very, very good. I'd take Barkley/Woods/Lee/Redd/Other TB whose name escapes over any skill position combo in the country.
   1789. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 03, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4315837)
The problem of course is that USC isn't that good and their defense blows ass to high heaven.

USC against the fifth best team of SEC-which is apparently LSU or South Carolina. I am taking the SEC team on that one....Honestly when LSU and South Carolina are your #5 and #6 teams the question of what conference is the best gets kind of silly.
   1790. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: December 03, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4315852)
USC stinks because their 2 deep on both the OL and DL is no longer loaded. They have recruited the lines poorly over the last few years and it is starting to catch up with them.

It is definitely correct that their defensive scheme was a huge problem though. Monte Kiffin was abused by spread offenses and he didn't fair much better against power offenses like Stanford either.
   1791. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 09:05 PM (#4315897)
Honestly when LSU and South Carolina are your #5 and #6 teams the question of what conference is the best gets kind of silly.

I know, but you guys say that every year. Georgia, the third best team last year and the SEC East champ, lost to Mark Dantonio in a bowl game. Not impressive.
   1792. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 03, 2012 at 09:08 PM (#4315898)
I know, but you guys say that every year. Georgia, the third best team last year and the SEC East champ, lost to Mark Dantonio in a bowl game.


Because for the most part it is true. And I am not trying to be that guy, but Georgia was probably the 4th or 5th best team in the SEC last year (Alabama, LSU, Arkansas were in the top 3 and Georgia lost to South Carolina head to head).
   1793. dlf Posted: December 03, 2012 at 09:24 PM (#4315911)
USC stinks because their 2 deep on both the OL and DL is no longer loaded.


And because their coach can't coach.
   1794. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: December 03, 2012 at 09:29 PM (#4315917)
Because for the most part it is true. And I am not trying to be that guy, but Georgia was probably the 4th or 5th best team in the SEC last year (Alabama, LSU, Arkansas were in the top 3 and Georgia lost to South Carolina head to head).


UGA was the champ of a very weak SEC east last year. They were much better this year. And of course, after the let down of losing the SEC game, it's hard to get up for the Also-Ran Bowl du jour.
   1795. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 03, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4315922)
Georgia was the champ because they got to miss Arkansas, LSU, and Alabama in the west. South Carolina pulled Arkansas (though they got miss Alabama and LSU) and that was practically the difference-though South Carolina did lose to Auburn and Georgia did not.
   1796. spike Posted: December 03, 2012 at 10:12 PM (#4315977)
deleted
   1797. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 03, 2012 at 10:30 PM (#4315994)
what were the games between SEC and Pac-12 this year?


I think Wash at LSU was the only one this season. That didn't go so well. Freaking Towson had a much better showing in Baton Rouge.
   1798. DA Baracus Posted: December 03, 2012 at 10:38 PM (#4315997)
Steve Spurrier got a 2 year extension but no raise. He should have had his agent get Arkansas to offer a contract.
   1799. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 03, 2012 at 11:01 PM (#4316014)
The latest New Yorker has a profile on Paul Finebaum and SEC football. Basically everything you think it would be.
   1800. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 03, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4316052)
Freaking Towson had a much better showing in Baton Rouge.

The CAA is a tough conference.
Page 18 of 35 pages ‹ First  < 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
HowardMegdal
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: Politics, October 2014: Sunshine, Baseball, and Etch A Sketch: How Politicians Use Analogies
(2739 - 5:15pm, Oct 20)
Last: David Nieporent (now, with children)

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - October 2014
(269 - 5:13pm, Oct 20)
Last: Manny Coon

NewsblogCould the Yankees ever be Royals? Young and athletic K.C. is everything that Bombers are not - NY Daily News
(20 - 5:11pm, Oct 20)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogFan Returns Home Run Ball to Ishikawa; Receives World Series tickets
(9 - 5:10pm, Oct 20)
Last: The Id of SugarBear Blanks

NewsblogWhy Royals great Frank White no longer associates with the team whose stadium he built - Yahoo Sports
(15 - 5:05pm, Oct 20)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogCalcaterra: So, if you’re not a fan of the Royals or Giants, who ya got?
(64 - 5:01pm, Oct 20)
Last: Harveys Wallbangers

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread, September 2014
(832 - 4:46pm, Oct 20)
Last: ursus arctos

NewsblogHitting coaches blamed for lack of offense - Sports - The Boston Globe
(11 - 4:28pm, Oct 20)
Last: Zach

NewsblogBrisbee: The 5 worst commercials of the MLB postseason
(121 - 4:26pm, Oct 20)
Last: JJ1986

NewsblogMorosi: Could Cain’s story make baseball king of sports world again?
(96 - 4:22pm, Oct 20)
Last: Into the Void

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-20-2014
(37 - 4:22pm, Oct 20)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogBernie Miklasz on Twitter: Matheny, when asked about not using closer T. Rosenthal in 9th
(133 - 3:55pm, Oct 20)
Last: Random Transaction Generator

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(8360 - 3:19pm, Oct 20)
Last: zenbitz

NewsblogCardinals proud of fourth straight NLCS appearance | cardinals.com
(47 - 2:46pm, Oct 20)
Last: Barry`s_Lazy_Boy

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1959 Ballot
(5 - 1:58pm, Oct 20)
Last: MrC

Page rendered in 0.5191 seconds
53 querie(s) executed