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Thursday, November 01, 2012

OT: November College Football Thread.

Alabama Is still Ranked #1.  Will they hold steady to repeat? Make it to the title game?  Or does another team claim the Crystal ball in Miami in January.

Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: November 01, 2012 at 01:43 PM | 3408 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: college football

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   1901. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4317623)
Aside from the brutal, life-destroying violence rendered on young men for our shared societal bloodlust, there is nothing that I hate more about college football than "coaching season."
   1902. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4317625)
I regard NC State as a pretty solid gig, actually - seems like their resources/fanbase would support more success than they have. Think I've seen them ranked highly on desirable job lists, too.
Having said that, their fans are ridiculous, in terms of expectations. Among other things.
   1903. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4317631)
The Tennessee job rumors are ever changing. Gundy apparently said no and Yahoo is reporting the Strong is likely to stay put. So Larry Fedora? Someone else?

If Tennessee has to settle again, the program is likely to continue on it's downward spiral.
   1904. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4317637)
The Tennessee job rumors are ever changing. Gundy apparently said no and Yahoo is reporting the Strong is likely to stay put. So Larry Fedora? Someone else?

If Tennessee has to settle again, the program is likely to continue on it's downward spiral.

I'm a little surprised Gundy is staying. There were rumors that he did not get along with his AD.

Fedora is the last of the three rumored names so I guess he gets it now.
   1905. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 05, 2012 at 01:01 PM (#4317665)
I remember the dark days of the Alabama coaching search in 2006.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/16057228/ns/sports-college_football//
   1906. hokieneer Posted: December 05, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4317796)
From the article:

Rodriguez had such credentials, leading the Mountaineers to a Sugar Bowl victory two seasons ago and going 10-2 this season.

But he also had lifelong ties to West Virginia, growing up about 30 minutes from campus. Rodriguez said he plans “on being here a long time.”

“There weren’t many reasons not to go. It’s all about the reasons for staying,” Rodriguez said. “I’m biased, this is my school. I think it’s a great place to raise a family. We’ve always had a great athletic tradition.”
   1907. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 05, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4317814)
The coaching fraternity is littered with guys who didn't take an opportunity when it was there, and never got another chance.

And with guys who took shots that weren't great fits at the programs they went to and ended up getting fired three years later.

Are you doubting the wisdom of Ty Willingham?
   1908. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: December 05, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4317839)
Ty got fired because ND thought they could get Urban Meyer, but he decided on florida, leaving ND to end up with chuckie and now brian kelly
   1909. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 05, 2012 at 03:50 PM (#4317941)
And with guys who took shots that weren't great fits at the programs they went to and ended up getting fired three years later.


Billy Callahan agrees. Though that was a moronic AD wanting to put his fingerprint on the program and have his guy. People forget, Billy C was like option #6 for Stevie Peedy and Nebraska. Even Houston Nutt, Mr. SEC Coach for Hire, turned down the job.
   1910. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 05, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4318141)
Louisville beat writer on twitter:
Mike Hughes ?@ITVHughes
Not getting good vibe from complex. Players don’t appear excited. Strong snuck out. No news.
   1911. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 05, 2012 at 06:28 PM (#4318144)
Arkansas State is crossing their fingers...
   1912. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 05, 2012 at 08:31 PM (#4318240)
CNNSI is reporting Strong will stay at Louisville. That's just huge for Louisville's program and their future.
   1913. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 05, 2012 at 09:27 PM (#4318262)
barry coaching wisky in the rose bowl
   1914. Spivey Posted: December 05, 2012 at 09:33 PM (#4318265)
I love that Barry Alvarez is coaching. He needs to Bill Snyder this #### up.
   1915. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 05, 2012 at 11:48 PM (#4318320)
Sonny Dykes to Cal. Interesting move. He had a decent run while OC at Arizona if I recall. His Dad was great for quotes.
   1916. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 06, 2012 at 12:19 AM (#4318340)
Stiff Arm Trophy has 140 ballots counted (700ish if I recall exist) and they have Johnny Manziel projected to win by a decent margin over Te'o.
   1917. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: December 06, 2012 at 01:54 AM (#4318375)
barry coaching wisky in the rose bowl

That's awesome.
   1918. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 06, 2012 at 10:59 AM (#4318499)
EDIT: nevermind
   1919. McCoy Posted: December 06, 2012 at 11:11 AM (#4318519)
Ty got fired because ND thought they could get Urban Meyer, but he decided on florida, leaving ND to end up with chuckie and now brian kelly

Yes and the reason they fired Ty to try and get Urban was because Ty wasn't that good for the program.
   1920. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 06, 2012 at 11:57 AM (#4318586)
Racist!
   1921. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: December 06, 2012 at 12:00 PM (#4318591)
The Tennessee job rumors are ever changing. Gundy apparently said no and Yahoo is reporting the Strong is likely to stay put. So Larry Fedora? Someone else?


Fedora supposedly told a recruit that he's staying at UNC. Yesterday the News and Observer speculated that Fedora might use the Tennessee job as a chance to improve his current contract, but neither he nor the AD has said anything publicly so who knows what's actually going on.
   1922. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: December 06, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4318742)
McCoy I cant disagree with that.
   1923. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 06, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4318768)
Butch Jones was mentioned as a possibility earlier in the process for Tennessee...wonder if his name floats back into the conversation
   1924. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: December 06, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4318774)
I feel like he is a candidate for every coaching job this year
   1925. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 06, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4318778)
CP @ Boise State and Gruden are the world leaders in being rumored candidates for jobs.
   1926. I am going to be Frank Posted: December 06, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4318802)
Would Tennessee take someone like cristobal? It's getting to the point where they need to get someone because everyone is rejecting them.
   1927. hokieneer Posted: December 06, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4318869)
I feel like he is a candidate for every coaching job this year


He was on my personal short list of preferred WVU replacements when RR left. At the time he was at directional Michigan, only had 1 year of HC experience in him, and was not a "homerun" type of name; so a lot of people disagreed with me. Of course the school decided to go with a guy who was 8-25 as a HC at a 1-AA school.
   1928. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: December 06, 2012 at 03:17 PM (#4318871)
Tennessee will hire John L. Smith.
   1929. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: December 06, 2012 at 03:20 PM (#4318873)
Tennessee fans are so low right now they would take Petrino. That's not a joke.
   1930. hokieneer Posted: December 06, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4318875)
You'd get 2-4 years of having a decent shot at "success". Followed by a nasty divorce.

Yeah I say a LOT of programs would take that right now.
   1931. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: December 06, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4318880)
Then again Jones has been riding Brian Kelly's coat tails for his career and managed to make a good go of it (not saying he isnt a bad coach)
   1932. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: December 06, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4318896)
Tennessee should hire Petrino. He'll do well on the field and in a few years either leave or cause himself to get fired, so they aren't stuck with him long term.

EDIT: hokie just said the same thing. coke to hoke.
   1933. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: December 06, 2012 at 03:50 PM (#4318908)
On the field Petrino would be a really good hire. I'm just not sure that Tennessee would take it at the price of teh the off the field stuff. Although at this point, I would't be surprised. Two weeks ago though UT fans would have been in uproar over him. How quickly things change.
   1934. zenbitz Posted: December 06, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4319047)

Tennessee fans are so low right now they would take Petrino. That's not a joke.


What about Paterno's sullied corpse?
   1935. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: December 07, 2012 at 12:38 AM (#4319236)
Congratulations to Manti Teo for all the awards he has received, he is a great player and an outstanding person, I hope he finds success in the NFL.

(all I spelled congratulations right with out spell check, I feel way more proud then I should)
   1936. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 07, 2012 at 11:07 AM (#4319352)
Butch Jones to Tennessee.
   1937. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: December 07, 2012 at 11:25 AM (#4319366)
The reaction by UT fans is one of panic.

Cool story on the Groza Award winner.
   1938. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 07, 2012 at 11:32 AM (#4319372)
(all I spelled congratulations right with out spell check, I feel way more proud then I should)

Yeah, but you misspelled Te'o. And "without". And "than".
   1939. AndrewJ Posted: December 07, 2012 at 11:38 AM (#4319376)
Ordered my Pinstripe Bowl tix the other day. Let's go Orange!
   1940. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 07, 2012 at 11:39 AM (#4319378)
Butch Jones to Tennessee.

I think Jones is a good coach, better than Dooley, but I doubt he's the guy to get Tennessee to the level they want to be at. But I'm pretty sure he will improve the program and get them closer to that level. Decent hire considering everything that happened.
   1941. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: December 07, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4319406)
Yeah, but you misspelled Te'o. And "without". And "than".

I'm as anti-violent as they come, but if Meatwad wants to b****-slap Crispix, I will not interfere. :)
   1942. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: December 07, 2012 at 12:18 PM (#4319410)
I think Jones is a good coach, better than Dooley, but I doubt he's the guy to get Tennessee to the level they want to be at.


Agreed, but was anyone who can do that a realistic candidate? They got turned down by multiple coaches, this was not, strangely, an attractive place to go.
   1943. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 07, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4319455)
They got turned down by multiple coaches, this was not, strangely, an attractive place to go.

Yeah, it's weird that Tennessee is having such a hard time considering frickin' Arkansas got Wisconsin's coach. I think Jones will, at the very least, make this a more attractive job in the future. He beat Vandy at Cincy, so he should be fine doing it at Tennessee. He'll bring in better recruits, especially on D, make the program more competitive, and regularly go bowling and if they fire him, the job will look a lot better.
   1944. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: December 07, 2012 at 02:57 PM (#4319539)
It was intentional, part of the joke.
   1945. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: December 07, 2012 at 03:57 PM (#4319588)
Im assuming that cincy goes after Diaco
   1946. smileyy Posted: December 07, 2012 at 04:08 PM (#4319597)
I think Jones is a good coach, better than Dooley, but I doubt he's the guy to get Tennessee to the level they want to be at. But I'm pretty sure he will improve the program and get them closer to that level. Decent hire considering everything that happened.


Yeah, I don't think there's any shame in being either a stepping stone school (Cincinnati) or a stepping stone coach.
   1947. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 08, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4319963)
So apparently Tuberville is leaving Texas Tech to be the HC at Cincinnati. That is a big surprise, he must have hated Lubbock.

Great news for fans of Big 12 also rans! It's going to be hard to find a coach who wants to go there and can win (not that Tuberville won a ton, but he did well for himself there).

Pretty big move for Cincy too. Totally changes the perception of the school IMO.
   1948. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: December 08, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4319967)
this seems like more coaching changes then I can recall in a single year
   1949. Spivey Posted: December 08, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4319969)
I'm not sure that TT is going to be such a hard place to get another coach. If you're a spread coach, that's gotta be an attractive job. I could also see them hiring within - they had a good defense this year and their offense keeps doing what they're doing. They seem to have found success because of their system, and if I were a TT fan I wouldn't want them drastically changing their approach.
   1950. Spivey Posted: December 08, 2012 at 02:24 PM (#4319970)
this seems like more coaching changes then I can recall in a single year


More money in the sport ever year. A lot of conference instability.
   1951. Spivey Posted: December 08, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4319971)
I love the 1-AA playoffs.
   1952. Spivey Posted: December 08, 2012 at 02:31 PM (#4319975)
I also don't understand why more FBS schools don't look at 1-AA coaches when filling roles. I'd much rather have my team get the best 1-AA coach on the market than a guy like Tommy Tuberville or Butch Jones.
   1953. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 08, 2012 at 02:53 PM (#4319984)
I'm not sure that TT is going to be such a hard place to get another coach. If you're a spread coach, that's gotta be an attractive job. I could also see them hiring within - they had a good defense this year and their offense keeps doing what they're doing. They seem to have found success because of their system, and if I were a TT fan I wouldn't want them drastically changing their approach.

Tuberville was also a really good recruiter. The last two years he got the (Rivals) 26th and 20th best classes as opposed to the classes in the 30s and 40s that Leach brought in. There is still some talent there but it's going to be hard to get someone who can both coach guys up and bring talent to Lubbock. I think it will be especially hard this late in the coaching search.

Edit: I guess if they get Kingsbury, that could keep the program moving forward. He seems to be a great coach.

I also don't understand why more FBS schools don't look at 1-AA coaches when filling roles. I'd much rather have my team get the best 1-AA coach on the market than a guy like Tommy Tuberville or Butch Jones.

Why? Mike London was a 1-AA HC and he hasn't exactly lit it up at UVA. I can't think of any other guys who made the jump. Chip Kelly was an OC at one. Brian Kelly was a D II coach. Tuberville and Jones are both good coaches who have proven that they know how to run a program and win a lot of football games at the FBS/BCS level.
   1954. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 08, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4319988)
Why? Mike London was a 1-AA HC and he hasn't exactly lit it up at UVA. I can't think of any other guys who made the jump. Chip Kelly was an OC at one. Brian Kelly was a D II coach. Tuberville and Jones are both good coaches who have proven that they know how to run a program and win a lot of football games at the FBS/BCS level.


Jim Harbaugh is a good example, Bobby Hauck is a bad example (who left a good Montana team to get destroyed at UNLV every year).


Tuberville must have hated Texas Tech for sure....
   1955. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 08, 2012 at 03:07 PM (#4319993)
Houston Nutt made the jump from Murray State. He was there for four years. And it wasn't like he was biding time there as the heir apparent at Arkansas, his first I-A job was at Boise.
   1956. Spivey Posted: December 08, 2012 at 03:19 PM (#4319998)
Why? Mike London was a 1-AA HC and he hasn't exactly lit it up at UVA. I can't think of any other guys who made the jump. Chip Kelly was an OC at one. Brian Kelly was a D II coach. Tuberville and Jones are both good coaches who have proven that they know how to run a program and win a lot of football games at the FBS/BCS level.


Jim Tressel made the jump. Tuberville I think basically just didn't interrupt the status quo as far as TT goes. Which I guess he gets credit for, but I don't find him to be an inspiring coach at all. Jones is ok, but I'm very weary of guys who haven't been at a program for more than a few years everywhere he's been. He's done well each place, so I understand him jumping up. But if I'm a higher level program, I'd like a guy who has shown they can build and maintain a great program. I also don't think there is much special about any of Butch Jones' teams - they had good records as much as a result of who they played rather than how good they were. A contrast to Chip Kelly, who actually had a couple of legitimately good teams with Cincy.
   1957. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: December 08, 2012 at 04:14 PM (#4320025)
Yeah the game itself stinks but go Army! Beat Navy!

Why? Mike London was a 1-AA HC and he hasn't exactly lit it up at UVA. I can't think of any other guys who made the jump. Chip Kelly was an OC at one. Brian Kelly was a D II coach. Tuberville and Jones are both good coaches who have proven that they know how to run a program and win a lot of football games at the FBS/BCS level.


Paul Johnson.
   1958. Spivey Posted: December 08, 2012 at 04:28 PM (#4320032)
Georgia Southern just beat ODU into submission.
   1959. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 08, 2012 at 06:27 PM (#4320078)
Georgia Southern just beat ODU into submission.
i hear the B1G is still looking to expand into georgia...
   1960. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: December 08, 2012 at 07:22 PM (#4320097)
Heartbreaker. Really good game though.
   1961. Quaker Posted: December 08, 2012 at 10:13 PM (#4320145)
And Manziel's 10:6 TD:Int ratio in conference play and 1-2 record vs good teams nets him the Heisman.
   1962. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 08, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4320146)
I heard Alabama is claiming part of the Heisman.
   1963. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 08, 2012 at 10:22 PM (#4320148)
sure better than Toretta's #s.
   1964. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: December 09, 2012 at 08:37 AM (#4320257)
Anyone else think TAMU is an early title favorite for 2013? Their OOC is ridiculously easy (Rice, SMU, UTep, Sam Houston State), they have 'Bama at home, then also in conference they have at Arkansas, Vanderbilt, at Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Auburn, and at Mizzou...and then their toughest road game, at LSU.

If they beat Bama early I think you have to like their chances of at least making it to the SEC title game for a shot at the MNC game.
   1965. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: December 09, 2012 at 08:42 AM (#4320258)
I love the FCS playoffs too, but prefer when teams with no FBS in state competition make it. Watching crazy atmospheres at Montana, for instance, is more fun than the who-cares crowds you get for Georgia Southern, Sam Houston State, and other schools in FBS territory.

Thus, I'm pulling for North Dakota State!
   1966. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 09, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4320312)
Anyone else think TAMU is an early title favorite for 2013? Their OOC is ridiculously easy (Rice, SMU, UTep, Sam Houston State), they have 'Bama at home, then also in conference they have at Arkansas, Vanderbilt, at Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Auburn, and at Mizzou...and then their toughest road game, at LSU.


I like them as dark horse candidates, but they are likely losing their bookend tackles, 3 of their top 5 WRs, their best pass rusher....
   1967. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 10, 2012 at 03:15 PM (#4321117)
Bobby Petrino to Western Kentucky...yep

Mike MacIntyre (from San Jose State) to Colorado. Sure why not...
   1968. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 10, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4321139)
Bobby Petrino to Western Kentucky...yep

That's pretty much as far down the totem poll as you can go. I don't see what WKU has to gain here. They need someone to build on what Taggart left behind, not the horrible douche that Petrino is. He'll be gone the second he gets a better offer and he's never left a program in even decent shape after he leaves.
   1969. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: December 11, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4321887)
Notre Dame vs Alabama will be the cover for the last print edition for TSN. going digital jan 1st
   1970. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 13, 2012 at 12:41 AM (#4323588)
And Mike Leach's first protégé, Kliff Kingsbury, goes back to Texas Tech as head coach. Age 33. In fall of 2008 he was given his first coaching job, "Quality Control" at Houston.

In the Cotton Bowl TAMU will be led by the offensive line coach.
   1971. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 13, 2012 at 12:53 AM (#4323593)
Frankly, that's a great move for Texas Tech, after a number of blunders (firing Leach for one).

Let's pretend they don't hire Kingsbury, who do they get? I support this type of hire.
   1972. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 13, 2012 at 01:46 AM (#4323612)
side note: how ###### is UConn and maybe Temple. The Jesus schools are meeting Thursday and it seems they are really close to looking to take off and be their own league.
   1973. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 13, 2012 at 02:26 AM (#4323627)
There is no apparent good ending for the Big East, so perhaps it's best for the basketball-only schools to bring things to a speedy end. They must be awfully tired of FBS schools opting out whenever a better football conference beckons, replaced by geographically-distant schools with generally lower ranked basketball programs. The watered down Big East football program wouldn't seem likely to bring in enough revenue to make it worthwhile to stay for the remainder of the death spiral.
   1974. Tripon Posted: December 13, 2012 at 02:33 AM (#4323629)
And Mike Leach's first protégé, Kliff Kingsbury, goes back to Texas Tech as head coach. Age 33. In fall of 2008 he was given his first coaching job, "Quality Control" at Houston.


Probably the best thing for Texas Tech. Kingsbury probably not going to leave TT unless its for a NFL job.
   1975. Tripon Posted: December 13, 2012 at 02:59 AM (#4323630)
edit: double post
   1976. smileyy Posted: December 13, 2012 at 03:00 AM (#4323631)
The A-10 better be ready to kick out half the teams that are dregs in order to welcome in the Big East basketball schools. Because otherwise, the top-tier will leave to join those schools anyway.
   1977. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 13, 2012 at 03:16 AM (#4323633)
Is it possible that instead of merging with the Atlantic 10, the Big East BB schools would seek to cherry pick its more desirable members?
   1978. smileyy Posted: December 13, 2012 at 03:24 AM (#4323635)
[1977] That's the most likely scenario, I think. Xavier, Butler, VCU for sure. St. Joe's? St. Louis is probably less desirable without Rick Majerus. And somehow Temple ended up on the wrong side of things by being a Big East "football school".
   1979. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 13, 2012 at 09:28 AM (#4323662)
Is it possible that instead of merging with the Atlantic 10, the Big East BB schools would seek to cherry pick its more desirable members?

Supposedly the basketball schools want to kick out the football schools and keep the Big East moniker and associated rights. Apparently they are in a brief moment where the new members don't have votes yet and the leaving members don't have votes so the basketball schools have a clear majority of the votes.
   1980. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: December 13, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4323785)
They have just enough votes to dissolve the conference. hell they should pair with the ACC, take all the old big east teams and go 2 11 team divisions, one called the big east and the other can be the atlantic costal conference, preserving all the old rivalry's and making it a monster of a conference
   1981. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: December 13, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4323794)
Man, it really sucks to be UConn, Cincy, and USF right now.
   1982. Tripon Posted: December 13, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4323802)
The Big East brand right now is horrible. Why the heck would you want to be associated with a conference nobody wants to be in? The A-10 teams should stand firm and realize that jumping to the Big East causes a lot more headaches than it would help.
   1983. smileyy Posted: December 13, 2012 at 01:33 PM (#4323820)
Why the heck would you want to be associated with a conference nobody wants to be in?


I think they see that as a short-term trend, mostly diluted by the football-playing schools. It wouldn't surprise me if its also an attempt to get leverage over the incoming schools because of the existing brand (rather than forming a new conference). But the BE BB schools need Xavier, et. al., more than Xavier needs them.

   1984. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: December 13, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4323825)
The Big East brand right now is horrible.

Are you cracked? It's still a premier hoops conference. Who has heard of the A-10?
   1985. Tripon Posted: December 13, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4323851)
Are you cracked? It's still a premier hoops conference. Who has heard of the A-10?


Bulter just joined, Dayton, St. Bonaventure, Temple, VCU and especially Xavier are known. Colleges that have left including Uconn, and Rugters have left because of football. Temple will leave the A-10 because of football (And even then they're going to find a new home.)

After all the departing members leaves, the Big East just going to be UConn, Cincy, South Florida, and the basketball only schools with DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, st. John, Seaton Hall, and Villanova.

The days of the Big East being relevant in football and basketball are over. If I'm a A-10 team, why should I join a conference that with all the football members looking to bolt as fast as possible. Why am I'm leaving for a conference that TV deal is going to SUCK when they lose UConn and Cincy? I would rather stay in the A-10 and try to grow it internally, and more importantly know that basketball really does come first instead of playing second fiddle and hold to the whims of the football teams.
   1986. SoSH U at work Posted: December 13, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4323866)
As long as the Big East is populated by some FBS schools, I can see holding off on joining if I'm one of the better A-10 programs (the A-10 is probably one of the Top 4-5 basketball conferences right now, and the total absence of any FBS programs should make it fairly stable). But if the time comes when the Big East finally sheds its last three football programs (or they shed the Big East), then the Big East will again be a far more attractive destination for Xavier*, Butler, etc.).

* It would be fascinating if the BE booted out UC to invite X, providing just one more reason for those two schools to hate each other.

   1987. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 13, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4323868)
The football members are gone now, right?

Anyway, the Bug East's revenue is going to be better than the A-10. Basketball is generally less valuable but the BE has strong roots in much much bigger markets than the A-10 schools.

EDIT: oops, hasn't happened yet.
   1988. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 13, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4323908)
So apparently the UCONN President is calling all the Jesus schools pleading with them to stay. She's the same broad that was courting an invite from the ACC last month.

   1989. smileyy Posted: December 13, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4323913)
There's a lot of incentive on both sides for BE BB schools and the stable top portion of the A-10 (the teams that have been discussed) to join together. Which means this will all fall apart.

The bottom portion of the A-10 is pretty dreadful, in an RPI-impacting way (sadly, that's still relevant). Some of those teams (Fordham, I'm looking at you), need to be in the MEAC or even lower-profile conference.

My concern is that some of the...not-good...Big East programs who used to be kinda-sorta relevant still have an over-inflated sense of their importance.
   1990. smileyy Posted: December 13, 2012 at 02:49 PM (#4323914)
[1988] Its good to know you can still trust basic human principles -- doing what's best for me RIGHT NOW, without any notion of how it might fall out in the future.
   1991. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 13, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4323929)
Anyway, the Bug East's revenue is going to be better than the A-10. Basketball is generally less valuable but the BE has strong roots in much much bigger markets than the A-10 schools.

I don't know if it's that much of a difference.

The Big East has St. John's and Seton Hall, the A-10 has Fordham. The Big East has UConn and Providence, the A-10 has UMass and URI. The Big East has Villanova, the A-10 has St. Joe's and La Salle. The Big East will soon cease to have Pitt, the A-10 has Duquesne. The Big East has Georgetown, the A-10 has George Washington. The Big East has Cincinnati, the A-10 has Xavier. The Big East has "strong roots" in Chicago and Milwaukee, the A-10 has Saint Louis and Indianapolis (those roots are not quite so strong). The big difference in terms of "markets" is whatever DePaul brings to the table, and the difference between St. John's and Fordham. Fordham sucks at basketball but it has a ton of alumni, and St. John's has not exactly been a powerhouse recently. (Steve Lavin changes everything?)

DePaul and Madison Square Garden.
   1992. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 13, 2012 at 03:01 PM (#4323939)
The bottom portion of the A-10 is pretty dreadful, in an RPI-impacting way (sadly, that's still relevant). Some of those teams (Fordham, I'm looking at you), need to be in the MEAC or even lower-profile conference.

I don't think Fordham is going to move to a conference of historically black schools whose northernmost member is in Baltimore. The football team already plays in the Patriot League. Or they could follow Hofstra to the CAA.
   1993. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: December 13, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4323982)
The Big East basketball brand is way way better than the A-10. But the Big East basketball product, once the departing schools leave, is maybe no better than A-10. Big East means ESPN Big Monday and all that jazz. A-10 is second tier ESPN games, at least in the public eye.

Supposedly the Jesus schools have the votes right now, for a very short period of time (until Temple is a full member), to possibly dissolve the league and retain their NCAA tournament credits. It appears likely they will do that, and probably invite some other schools aboard at that point. If they wait, they'll lose their window which will likely never return. They'll be saddled with SMU, Houston and the others forever.


   1994. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 13, 2012 at 03:40 PM (#4323986)
The Big East has St. John's and Seton Hall, the A-10 has Fordham. The Big East has UConn and Providence, the A-10 has UMass and URI. The Big East has Villanova, the A-10 has St. Joe's and La Salle. The Big East will soon cease to have Pitt, the A-10 has Duquesne. The Big East has Georgetown, the A-10 has George Washington. The Big East has Cincinnati, the A-10 has Xavier. The Big East has "strong roots" in Chicago and Milwaukee, the A-10 has Saint Louis and Indianapolis (those roots are not quite so strong). The big difference in terms of "markets" is whatever DePaul brings to the table, and the difference between St. John's and Fordham.

While they may share the same geographic markets, in almost every case the Big East BB teams are considerably more successful. Georgetown is usually in the national rankings and plays its home games in the Verizon Center, a NBA arena. GW is rarely ranked and plays its home games in a nice 5,000 seat on-campus gym. Not all the differences are as stark, but the A-10 has a ways to go to match the Big East.
   1995. cmd600 Posted: December 13, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4323991)
1991 - I'm not sure it's as simple as having a team in the market. UConn and Georgetown will always draw more viewers than UMass and George Washington. Chicago, by itself, is much greater than St. Louis and Indianapolis.
   1996. Tripon Posted: December 13, 2012 at 03:48 PM (#4324003)

1991 - I'm not sure it's as simple as having a team in the market. UConn and Georgetown will always draw more viewers than UMass and George Washington. Chicago, by itself, is much greater than St. Louis and Indianapolis.


Yet, that's why conferences are adding football teams. Texas A&M became valuable to the SEC despite it being a very distant 2nd in terms of viewership and popularity in Texas to Texas. Just having a potential TV market is seemly more important than actually having a market.
   1997. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 13, 2012 at 03:53 PM (#4324014)
And in turn, most of the money you get from having that TV market comes from people who don't want to watch sports being forced to pay for sports channels. Not sure why people who don't want to watch football are more valuable sports consumers than people who don't want to watch basketball. Maybe because it airs fewer games so people will be less annoyed by it.
   1998. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 13, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4324048)
Well I get the feeling forced cable subscriptions are not a product of college basketball because it lacks the critical mass of popularity to strong arm local cable companies but I admit to no real evidence on the issue.
   1999. cmd600 Posted: December 13, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4324063)
Yet, that's why conferences are adding football teams. Texas A&M became valuable to the SEC despite it being a very distant 2nd in terms of viewership and popularity in Texas to Texas. Just having a potential TV market is seemly more important than actually having a market.


I'm not sure A&M can be compared to George Washington and UMass. The former, despite being #2 in its state, is still perennially ranked and recognized as a more than respectable program throughout the nation. The latter would be like saying you got Miami, Toledo, and Kent St, so you've locked up the 12 million people in Ohio. They aren't just second fiddle, there's a huge chasm between them and #1.
   2000. smileyy Posted: December 13, 2012 at 04:20 PM (#4324070)
[1992] Oops. I think I picked the wrong conference. I meant MAAC or possibly NEC.
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