Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, May 03, 2014

[OTP - May 2014] House stadium funding package advances with Cuban baseball player provision

A bill that would enable professional sports franchises to compete for sales tax subsidies cleared a major hurdle Friday, winning overwhelming support in the Florida House.

The tax breaks would be available to professional football, basketball, hockey and soccer teams, as well as professional rodeos and NASCAR-sponsored events.

But baseball teams would have to stay on the bench — unless Major League Baseball changes its rules about Cuban baseball players.

Lawmakers added the stipulation in response to media reports that Cuban outfielder Yasiel Puig had been held hostage by human traffickers while trying to establish residency in Mexico in 2012.

Under Major League Baseball rules, players from Cuba must live in another country before they can become free agents. Cuban players who come directly to the United States are forced into the amateur draft, which limits their salaries.

“Major League Baseball [has] inadvertently created a market for human smuggling and the unequal treatment of Cuban baseball players,” said Rep. José Félix Díaz, R-Miami, who introduced the provision with Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fort Walton Beach. “We’re not going to give away our taxpayer dollars until this ill is corrected.”

In response, the MLB issued the following statement: “While the sponsors of the bill in Florida blame MLB policies for the role of human smugglers, they do not provide any support for their premise that Cuban players must rely on traffickers to defect to countries other than the U.S. such as Mexico or the Dominican Republic, but would not need the assistance of traffickers to reach U.S. soil.”

 

Tripon Posted: May 03, 2014 at 09:38 AM | 4455 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: otp, politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 45 of 45 pages ‹ First  < 43 44 45
   4401. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:32 AM (#4717300)
It's worth noting that there were still hundreds of thousands of German POWs in Siberia and other remote regions of the Soviet Union years after World War II ended.

Are you saying we should emulate Stalin?
   4402. JE (Jason) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:33 AM (#4717301)
Answer me a simple question, honestly, if you can Jason. Run the thought experiment where the Obama admin has the opportunity to bring this guy home (deserter or not) and chooses not to. A month later, his captors Daniel Pearl him. Would you, or would you not, immediately damn the admin for their failure to bring him home when they had the chance?

Honestly. If you can. Please.

No. That's my honest answer.

As I said above, you don't agree to any deal. (Once upon a time, Berghdahl's release was being tied to a peace deal. Once upon a time, we were not contemplating releasing from US custody five hardened terrorists.)
   4403. JE (Jason) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:36 AM (#4717305)
Double post.
   4404. spike Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:37 AM (#4717307)
You know approximately nothing. And yet you second guess?

it's the new national pastime.
   4405. JE (Jason) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:40 AM (#4717310)
Come on, man. The Secretary of Defense and the POTUS deemed the terms reasonable. They have way way WAY more info than you do. You know approximately nothing. And yet you second guess?

I know that this must be snark but just in case others take it seriously:

We're to trust everything any President and Secretary of Defense say without question? And in this instance, if Rumsfeld had been SecDef and Bush POTUS, would Sam and the gang be thoroughly satisfied based on their inside knowledge?
   4406. Greg K Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:41 AM (#4717312)
It's worth noting that there were still hundreds of thousands of German POWs in Siberia and other remote regions of the Soviet Union years after World War II ended.

Are you saying we should emulate Stalin?

Yeah I don't think anyone ever exchanges all their POWs. Though I think the Soviets and their apparent refusal to exchange any stands out as an anomaly in history more than it is the general rule. In the Napoleonic Wars full-time organizations were established in order to administer the exchange of prisoners. Pre-Napoleon the right of parole was fairly common, where soldiers could be exchanged during wartime provided they swore not to take up arms again. Obviously these applied more to officers than enlisted men, and then going back to medieval warfare you have a system that was largely based on ransom and exchange (again, just for nobles).

POW prisoner exchange has been a part of military history for a long, long time. That doesn't mean every exchange is a good idea, but is in of itself standard procedure I think.
   4407. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:43 AM (#4717313)
Got it, Jason, it's just a rooting for the laundry thing. Since the liberals have their little whinefest, we get to have ours. You're a True American.
   4408. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:45 AM (#4717314)
In good news, Bob Mould releases a new album tomorrow.

That's awesome news. Had the chance to listen to Workbook for the millionth time the other day and can't quite put it in the canon -- still just short.(*) Very, very close though. Phenomenal album.

(*) Though I'd rather listen to it than some of the albums in the actual canon.
   4409. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:46 AM (#4717316)
And in this instance, if Rumsfeld had been SecDef and Bush POTUS, would Sam and the gang be thoroughly satisfied based on their inside knowledge?


If a GOP admin had made this exact exchange, I guarantee you'd not have heard a peep out of me in complaint. We go get our boys and bring them home, Jason. I have my issues with the GOP-neocon vision of foreign policy. I have made my issues there clear, I think. This is not something I'd complain about even once. The only people who I know for a fact would switch talking points in order to spin politics accordingly - even if I take your claim that you wouldn't at face value - is the GOP punditry classes, who do that sort of "whatever I need to say to serve the Party" bullshit every day.
   4410. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:48 AM (#4717318)
Had the chance to listen to Workbook for the millionth time the other day and can't quite put it in the canon -- still just short.(*) Very, very close though. Phenomenal album.


The nadir of all things Bob is the single "Megamanic."
   4411. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:54 AM (#4717322)
The trade of five Gitmo-caliber Taliban for a single possible-deserter "POW" is absurd on its face.
   4412. Lassus Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:55 AM (#4717323)
As much as all the left is apparently full of drum-circle reparation hippies, I really don't think any liberals you're going after for reciprocity, here or elsewhere, are "NO TRADES, LET THE DESERTER BURN" types, Jason, even under Bush. You think?
   4413. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:56 AM (#4717324)
We go get our boys and bring them home, Jason.

Unless the price is too high, in which case they do their duty in the enemy's prison.
   4414. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 02, 2014 at 11:58 AM (#4717329)
Got it, Jason, it's just a rooting for the laundry thing.


I wonder how much outrage our conservatives here were voicing over the coverup of Pat Tillman's death. I wonder how many of them were using it as a metaphor for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, or as a metaphor for George Bush's approach to foreign policy.

It's all about the laundry.
   4415. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:00 PM (#4717330)
The trade of five Gitmo-caliber Taliban for a single possible-deserter "POW" is absurd on its face.


Luckily you're not in charge of anything other than your fever dreams, brah.
   4416. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:00 PM (#4717331)
I was actually uncomfortable with the prisoner swap, until I saw Cruz speak against it and saw some of the posts form the anti-Obama contingent here, but now that it seems that most of the opp is being driven by partisan politics, and so I'm a little less uncomfortable.

Israel's swaps have been more problematic because they have been known to swap dozens and hundreds of terrorists for one guy (and sometimes even for a corpse)- and these aren't guys who were taken during active battle in an active battle zone, but guys actually kidnapped off the streets somewhere.

For the most part we treated the Taliban's prisoners taken in Afghanistan as POWs (as opposed to Al Qaedites who we deemed unlawful combatants)- these guys may be war criminal scum but it seems that their battles/crimes have been in Afghanistan and their victims for the most part Afghanis.







   4417. Lassus Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4717332)
Unless the price is too high, in which case they do their duty in the enemy's prison.

I am.... not sure if this the US military's policy.
   4418. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:02 PM (#4717335)
bizarre double posts...
I edited #4416 and it duplicated here.





   4419. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:03 PM (#4717338)
We're to trust everything any President and Secretary of Defense say without question?


I guess it depends whose side you're on - America's, or the terrorists'. Whose side are you on again?

And in this instance, if Rumsfeld had been SecDef and Bush POTUS, would Sam and the gang be thoroughly satisfied based on their inside knowledge?


Criticizing the Commander-In-Chief during wartime only gives aid and comfort to the enemies who hate us and want to kill us because they hate our freedom. Don't you have a Dixie Chicks album to listen to or something?
   4420. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:04 PM (#4717339)
There's a lot of question begging going on. These guys are in gitmo, therefore they *must* be some of the most dangerous people on the planet. There are some questions about how this guy got captured, therefore he *must* have deserted and is not worthy of rescue.

Also, are we at war with the Taliban or not? If so, trading POWs is pretty normal. If not, keeping those guys in gitmo indefinitely is monstrous.
   4421. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4717342)
Speaking as a veteran, you don't leave a man behind. Period. I suspect that if you polled all current and former military personnel, you would find upward of 98% in favor of this exchange. 5 POS Taliban Mullas aren't worth the life of one US soldier, possible deserter or no. If you are going to start judging the efficacy of getting one of you own back based on what he might have done in a moment of weakness, you might as well close the whole shop down, because pretty soon, no one is going to be willing to take up arms anymore. If this guy deserted his post in the face of the enemy, you let him rot in Leavenworth, not in the hands of foreign bandits.
   4422. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:07 PM (#4717344)
And as Sam noted above, he was a US soldier being held against his will by our enemy, the Taliban. Unless you have some evidence that he could have left voluntarily, he was by definition a POW.
   4423. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:10 PM (#4717346)
Speaking as a veteran, you don't leave a man behind. Period. I suspect that if you polled all current and former military personnel, you would find upward of 98% in favor of this exchange.

Which is why we don't leave these decisions to veterans.

I hope we can agree that at some point the cost paid is too high for a single soldier.
   4424. Morty Causa Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:11 PM (#4717347)
Was Berghdahl drafted, or did he enlist?
   4425. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:12 PM (#4717349)
Which is why we don't leave these decisions to veterans.


As opposed to desk-chair warriors on message boards, I suppose.
   4426. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:17 PM (#4717355)
I hope we can agree that at some point the cost paid is too high for a single soldier.


Yes. And this isn't it. Not even close.

   4427. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:18 PM (#4717356)
Was Berghdahl drafted, or did he enlist?


Ridiculous question. You know the answer. What's with the passive-aggressive?
   4428. JE (Jason) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:26 PM (#4717360)
Speaking as a veteran, you don't leave a man behind.

One last time, folks: The issue isn't whether you leave a man behind. It's about the terms of the exchange and when it gets consummated.
   4429. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:27 PM (#4717363)
There are some questions about how this guy got captured, therefore he *must* have deserted and is not worthy of rescue.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Wikileaks release transcripts of Taliban chatter saying that Bergdahl had been captured while he was using a latrine?
   4430. Morty Causa Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:27 PM (#4717364)
Ridiculous question. You know the answer. What's with the passive-aggressive?

It's not whether I know the answer; it's whether you know it, and whether you take that into account when considering soldier's "rights," especially the rights of a combat soldier in a combat zone.
   4431. Lassus Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:28 PM (#4717367)
It's about the terms of the exchange and when it gets consummated.

So if this cost was too high, what was a not-too-high cost in this case?
   4432. JE (Jason) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:29 PM (#4717368)
I wonder how much outrage our conservatives here were voicing over the coverup of Pat Tillman's death.

There was quite a bit of concern among my conservative friends in the wake of Tillman's death, Andy, but President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld weren't directly involved in the planning of that particular operation. In contrast, President Obama and Secretary Hagel were directly involved in the decision to execute this exchange.
   4433. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:32 PM (#4717369)
The fact that he enlisted is totally irrelevant.
   4434. Shredder Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:32 PM (#4717370)
We're to trust everything any President and Secretary of Defense say without question?
I must have missed all of your skepticism around the march to war in Iraq. But I'm sure you were questioning Bush and Powell every step of the way, because that's just the sort of non-partisan straight shooter you are, Jason.
   4435. zenbitz Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:33 PM (#4717372)
   4436. JE (Jason) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:33 PM (#4717373)
So if this cost was too high, what was a not-too-high cost in this case?

For example, maybe you wait until US troops have left Afghanistan? And for those who think it would have been unfair for Bergdahl to remain in captivity one more day no matter what the cost, where were you three years ago?
   4437. Shredder Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:35 PM (#4717374)
Gitmo-caliber
A phrase that runs the gamut from terrorist mastermind to "Brown guy who had an argument with his neighbor, who then called in an anonymous tip". This is like comparing Jeffery Dahmer to a guy in a drunk tank, because they both served time behind bars.
   4438. Morty Causa Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:41 PM (#4717378)
When one enlists, one can be said to have done so assenting in full knowledge to certain assumptions. That can't be said of an involuntary draftee. He was forced into service. I think even Libertarians would agree with that.
   4439. JE (Jason) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:41 PM (#4717379)
I must have missed all of your skepticism around the march to war in Iraq.

Just my luck: I started lurking/posting here in 2009. :)

In brief, I still believe the invasion of Iraq was the correct choice based on the info available at the time. (No one's ever been able to say that the relied-upon British intel was fraudulent.) What we ###### up, among other things, were the negotiations with Turkey, for which State, Defense, and Ankara all deserve blame, and of course, the decision to rebuild post-Saddam Iraq from the ground up.

I freely acknowledge that Powell was a poor choice for Secretary of State. (If nothing else, did you notice that the guy hardly ever left the country, even during the run-up to the invasion?)
   4440. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:45 PM (#4717380)
To reiterate: The proximate cause of the "it's all about the laundry" political culture to which we're doomed is Andy and his friends lining up to defend Clinton against his perjuries and obstructions of justice. (Note again the virtually similar perspective White Dems and White Rs had on the OJ case. That's changed dramatically and it all started with the Clinton perjuries.)
   4441. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:46 PM (#4717381)
A phrase that runs the gamut from terrorist mastermind to "Brown guy who had an argument with his neighbor, who then called in an anonymous tip".

So Barack Obama is holding people in Gitmo with no charges, no trial, and no prospect of release who are guilty only of being brown and arguing with his neighbor.

Good to know.
   4442. spike Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:48 PM (#4717382)
The traded prisoners are all micro-chipped Manchurian candidates who have been completely brainwashed during their time at Gitmo and released as a trojan horse op to identify and cripple the Taliban leadership. The bad guys will either shoot them, ignore them, or allow them near the terrorist central command. In all cases we got our man back. Win win win win. Far more believable than anything else I've heard today, and no more speculative, so why not?
   4443. Publius Publicola Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:52 PM (#4717385)
Don't know about Japanese but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't their bag either.


There weren't any to exchange. The Japanese weren't big into getting captured.
   4444. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:53 PM (#4717386)
When one enlists, one can be said to have done so assenting in full knowledge to certain assumptions.

One of those assumptions is that the US will work like hell to get you back if you're captured. This isn't a Bond movie. We don't give them hidden cyanide pills.
   4445. Shredder Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:56 PM (#4717388)
In brief, I still believe the invasion of Iraq was the correct choice based on the info available at the time.
Hans Blix had a pretty good inclination that it was inaccurate, but what the hell did he know?
   4446. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 02, 2014 at 12:59 PM (#4717392)
One of those assumptions is that the US will work like hell to get you back if you're captured.

Consistent with other objectives; see, e.g., John McCain and the USG not accepting the propagandistic offer of early release from his North Vietnamese POW camp.
   4447. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:01 PM (#4717396)
A good summary from Balloon-Juice:

I don’t know if SGT Bergdahl voluntarily walked off his camp and surrendered to the enemy or not. Just because a few fellow Soldiers in his unit say that doesn’t make it so. The most powerful communication system in an Infantry company is what we used to call “S-5–rumor control.” I’ve never been in a unit that wasn’t essentially a knitting circle with automatic weapons. Young Soldiers, for whom boredom is an almost constant companion (punctuated by moments of sheer terror) can give the most catty junior high school girls’ clique a run for their money. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily wrong, but I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in it without some corroboration. So I’ll hold off judgment on that. It’s also been brought up that he supposedly sent some emails to one or more people expressing doubts about US military actions. So did I. So have a lot of guys who then went out and did the very best they could do for their buddies and their country. It’s irrelevant anyway.

We’re getting out of Afghanistan, and the treaties to which this nation has repeatedly pledged itself require that we release Prisoners of War and repatriate them home. Taliban are distinct from Al Qaeda in this respect because Taliban could be considered the government forces of Afghanistan (whether legitimate, loved, respected, or not) while AQ isn’t anything but a bunch of thugs under international law. So this idea that we gave up valuable prisoners for one guy and that makes it a bad deal is bullshit on its face. We were going to release them. We were REQUIRED to release them under international law that we largely wrote. Whatever intelligence value they had was long since wrung out of them, in some cases literally. One of them had laid down his arms and pledged to work with the new government of Afghanistan prior to the Pakistani government taking him prisoner more as a propaganda tool and removing a potential political problem than anything else, I am given to understand. So we got something we wanted for doing something now that we would have done in a few months for nothing anyway. That’s not exactly brilliant poker, but it was pretty well played.

We don’t leave our people behind. That’s an Army value. The people ranting about this whole thing either don’t understand or don’t care about that simple concept. Whatever SGT Bergdahl may have done or not done, we don’t leave our people behind. If it hasn’t already, the Army will shortly start a 15-6 investigation, so called in reference to the Army Regulation that describes such things. You’ve probably heard the term “Board of Inquiry.” They are essentially the same thing. When the Army has concluded what the circumstances of SGT Bergdahl’s capture and captivity were, then they’ll make some decisions, but I’ll just note for the record that US POWs have rarely been punished for their actions or inactions while in enemy hands. Many, many of the POWs in Viet Nam, including John McCain signed documents created by their captors confessing to war crimes and indicting their fellow POWs and the US. Former CW4 Michael Durant, taken prisoner by a Somali warlord after being shot down in the battle of Mogadishu (Blackhawk Down) made problematic statements to a TV camera that were subsequently shown around the world. None of these men were ever subjected to disciplinary action upon repatriation to my knowledge.

So I’m glad that SGT Bergdahl will be reunited with his family, at long last.


   4448. tshipman Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:04 PM (#4717398)
To reiterate: The proximate cause of the "it's all about the laundry" political culture to which we're doomed is Andy and his friends lining up to defend Clinton against his perjuries and obstructions of justice. (Note again the virtually similar perspective White Dems and White Rs had on the OJ case. That's changed dramatically and it all started with the Clinton perjuries.)


The current partisan environment traces back to Jan 20, 2009. There were many examples of bipartisan legislation under Bush and Clinton.
   4449. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:13 PM (#4717403)
I wonder how much outrage our conservatives here were voicing over the coverup of Pat Tillman's death. I wonder how many of them were using it as a metaphor for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, or as a metaphor for George Bush's approach to foreign policy.

It's all about the laundry.


There was quite a bit of concern among my conservative friends in the wake of Tillman's death, Andy,


Then I only wish you'd been around here in 2007, Jason, because you would have been the only one.

but President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld weren't directly involved in the planning of that particular operation. In contrast, President Obama and Secretary Hagel were directly involved in the decision to execute this exchange.

Well, using the standard the Republicans have used during the VA scandal, how many heads rolled once the Tillman coverup was exposed? How many of those involved in the coverup were punished for their role in it? And what did President Bush have to say about it, after Stanley McChrystal had warned Bush's speechwriters not to mention the circumstances surrounding Tillman's death because it "might cause public embarrassment if the circumstances of Corporal Tillman's death become public"?
   4450. Greg K Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:25 PM (#4717406)
There weren't any to exchange. The Japanese weren't big into getting captured.

There are a couple Japanese exchanges mentioned in that book. Though it's not clear that there were ever POWs exchanged. One incident I can find involved the Japanese transport Asama Maru which was used to exchange pre-war diplomatic personnel between the US and Japan in the summer of 1942.

Most other exchanges between the US and Japan throughout the war appeared to mostly be American citizens who happened to be in Japan or China when wore broke out (as missionaries, businessmen etc.) and Japanese who happened to the in the US.
   4451. Bitter Mouse Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:28 PM (#4717408)
Note: The June OTP thread is up and running.

And after reading more, listening to the voices here, and thinking about it I am OK with the swap. Getting our boy back home is the important thing.
   4452. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:33 PM (#4717413)
So Barack Obama is holding people in Gitmo with no charges, no trial, and no prospect of release who are guilty only of being brown and arguing with his neighbor.

Good to know.


Attempts to bring them to the US for trial and detention were blocked nearly unanimously by Congress. Also good to know.
   4453. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:34 PM (#4717415)
The proximate cause of the "it's all about the laundry" political culture to which we're doomed is Andy and his friends lining up to defend Clinton against his perjuries and obstructions of justice.


Iran-Contra.
   4454. Bitter Mouse Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:40 PM (#4717421)
Iran-Contra.


Nah, the dawn of politics when the Og party wanted to hunt mammoth and Nog and his group thought it too dangerous.
   4455. Greg K Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:47 PM (#4717434)
Nah, the dawn of politics when the Og party wanted to hunt mammoth and Nog and his group thought it too dangerous.

Actually the dawn of two opposing parties rooting against each other's laundry came with the Whigs and the Tories in the late 17th century. I wrote a freshman paper about it ten years ago, so that makes me an expert.
   4456. Srul Itza Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:47 PM (#4717435)
The proximate cause of the "it's all about the laundry" political culture to which we're doomed is Andy and his friends lining up to defend Clinton against his perjuries and obstructions of justice.


No, it was Newt Gingrich and his new rules of the game, where you referred to the opposition as treasonous and whatever other extreme and outrageous thing comes to mind.

Politics ain't bean bag, but Gingrich and his ilk turned it into a blood sport. That changed things.
   4457. bunyon Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:48 PM (#4717437)
The proximate cause of the "it's all about the laundry" political culture to which we're doomed is Andy and his friends lining up to defend Clinton against his perjuries and obstructions of justice.



Iran-Contra.


Sedition Act.
   4458. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 02, 2014 at 01:50 PM (#4717438)
No, it was Newt Gingrich and his new rules of the game, where you referred to the opposition as treasonous and whatever other extreme and outrageous thing comes to mind.


Oh, who can forget this!

You gotta hand it to Bush the Dumber, once he was appointed Republicans stopped using those terms when discussing the president. He changed the tone in Washington just like he promised.
   4459. Mefisto Posted: June 02, 2014 at 02:13 PM (#4717466)
Actually the dawn of two opposing parties rooting against each other's laundry came with the Whigs and the Tories in the late 17th century.


"In friendship false, implacable in hate
Resolved to ruin or to rule the state."

Sounds like today's Republican Party.
Page 45 of 45 pages ‹ First  < 43 44 45

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Darren
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogAmazin' Avenue - Cohen: Mets and Rockies discussing Troy Tulowitzki deal with Noah Syndergaard as the centerpiece
(32 - 9:58pm, Dec 19)
Last: AJMcCringleberry

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - December 2014
(740 - 9:32pm, Dec 19)
Last: Booey

NewsblogOT: Politics - December 2014: Baseball & Politics Collide in New Thriller
(5058 - 9:29pm, Dec 19)
Last: Morty Causa

NewsblogThe 2015 HOF Ballot Collecting Gizmo!
(115 - 9:28pm, Dec 19)
Last: Booey

NewsblogThe 4 surprisingly quiet teams of the MLB offseason
(27 - 9:03pm, Dec 19)
Last: Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy

NewsblogTrading Justin Upton means the Braves are in full rebuilding mode | Mark Bradley blog
(76 - 8:30pm, Dec 19)
Last: Rickey! trades in sheep and threats

NewsblogRoyals sign Kris Medlen to two-year deal - MLB Daily Dish
(32 - 8:20pm, Dec 19)
Last: WSPanic

NewsblogJerry Crasnick on Twitter: "Jake Peavy has agreed on 2 yr deal with
(11 - 8:16pm, Dec 19)
Last: Chipper Jonestown Massacre

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-19-2014
(10 - 7:47pm, Dec 19)
Last: bobm

NewsblogFull Count » Source: Red Sox close to deal sending Will Middlebrooks to Padres for Ryan Hanigan
(9 - 7:40pm, Dec 19)
Last: Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer

NewsblogHow the Rays lost the City Council vote - DRaysBay
(4 - 6:55pm, Dec 19)
Last: RMc is a fine piece of cheese

NewsblogMax Scherzer not a realistic option, New York Yankees' Randy Levine says - ESPN New York
(66 - 6:47pm, Dec 19)
Last: bobm

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(9173 - 5:25pm, Dec 19)
Last: Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor

NewsblogOT: Wrestling Thread November 2014
(159 - 5:04pm, Dec 19)
Last: NJ in DC (Now with Wife!)

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1960 Ballot
(10 - 4:34pm, Dec 19)
Last: DL from MN

Page rendered in 0.5124 seconds
50 querie(s) executed