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Saturday, May 03, 2014

[OTP - May 2014] House stadium funding package advances with Cuban baseball player provision

A bill that would enable professional sports franchises to compete for sales tax subsidies cleared a major hurdle Friday, winning overwhelming support in the Florida House.

The tax breaks would be available to professional football, basketball, hockey and soccer teams, as well as professional rodeos and NASCAR-sponsored events.

But baseball teams would have to stay on the bench — unless Major League Baseball changes its rules about Cuban baseball players.

Lawmakers added the stipulation in response to media reports that Cuban outfielder Yasiel Puig had been held hostage by human traffickers while trying to establish residency in Mexico in 2012.

Under Major League Baseball rules, players from Cuba must live in another country before they can become free agents. Cuban players who come directly to the United States are forced into the amateur draft, which limits their salaries.

“Major League Baseball [has] inadvertently created a market for human smuggling and the unequal treatment of Cuban baseball players,” said Rep. José Félix Díaz, R-Miami, who introduced the provision with Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fort Walton Beach. “We’re not going to give away our taxpayer dollars until this ill is corrected.”

In response, the MLB issued the following statement: “While the sponsors of the bill in Florida blame MLB policies for the role of human smugglers, they do not provide any support for their premise that Cuban players must rely on traffickers to defect to countries other than the U.S. such as Mexico or the Dominican Republic, but would not need the assistance of traffickers to reach U.S. soil.”

 

Tripon Posted: May 03, 2014 at 09:38 AM | 4455 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: otp, politics

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   801. zonk Posted: May 08, 2014 at 10:51 AM (#4702832)

Other than post-stroke Woodrow Wilson or Alzheimer's Reagan, the closest might be James Buchanan.


But did Buchanan actually not "mean well"?

He was just incompetent -- the job and circumstances overwhelmed him, but I think he wanted to 3rd way/compromise his way through slavery because he "meant well" for the country.... in same manner that Andrew Jackson was pretty damn bloodthirsty when it came to removing the native inhabitants and shredding previous treaties with them - he probably 'meant well' for the country.
   802. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 08, 2014 at 10:51 AM (#4702833)
All he does is pick fights. Very low signal to noise.

As opposed to Joey B, Sugar Bear and Ray? Get serious. This is a very (politically) diverse crowd, and if you're going to start banning people for trolling you're not going to be able to stop with just the ones you don't like.
   803. McCoy Posted: May 08, 2014 at 10:52 AM (#4702834)
But that is generally where you start.
   804. Bitter Mouse Posted: May 08, 2014 at 10:53 AM (#4702835)
They came for Kevin, and I said nothing ...
   805. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 08, 2014 at 10:57 AM (#4702837)
But that is generally where you start.

But don't finish.
   806. tshipman Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:05 AM (#4702839)
As opposed to Joey B, Sugar Bear and Ray? Get serious. This is a very (politically) diverse crowd, and if you're going to start banning people for trolling you're not going to be able to stop with just the ones you don't like.


Ray is not remotely in the same category as Joey B. SBB is sui generis, and may be a recipient of a National Foundation of the Arts grant for some kind of performance trolling art installation. I think we should evaluate him as we would Degas or Monet, and not as we would Joey B.
   807. Morty Causa Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:06 AM (#4702840)
What the dickless pusillanimous so desperately want to ignore is that what they see as trolling the troll sees as throwing down the gauntlet. It's a challenge. People cringe and cower at that. Their first impulse is to kill the messenger. If that's not possible, then they immediately tar with some brush strokes of ad hominem and a judicious use righteous umbrage. Ooo, it feels so good to feel superior. And it soothes those fears of being under siege. And it places the onus on the "troll" to have to clear the brush like this every time before the argument can proceed.
   808. The Good Face Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:14 AM (#4702846)
SBB is sui generis, and may be a recipient of a National Foundation of the Arts grant for some kind of performance trolling art installation.


SBB is an odd duck in some ways, but I don't understand why anybody would think he's trolling any more than any of the other regulars who have strong opinions and post here.
   809. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:15 AM (#4702849)
Ray is not remotely in the same category as Joey B.


Who is?
   810. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:16 AM (#4702850)
but I don't understand why anybody would think he's trolling any more than any of the other regulars who have strong opinions and post here.


I see SBB as a performance artist
   811. Howie Menckel Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:19 AM (#4702853)

80-90 pct of NJers have paid their first-month Obamacare premium - take that, deadbeats of other states!

:)
   812. BrianBrianson Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:20 AM (#4702855)
Given the context, I don't think it's trolling. It's a divine mission to save us from the accusation we're attacking strawmen by having people purport to hold easily dismantled positions.
   813. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:21 AM (#4702858)
Their first impulse is to kill the messenger.


With Tship and GF, it's "I don't like it when my arguments are ripped to shreds."
   814. BDC Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:23 AM (#4702859)
   815. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:28 AM (#4702862)
I think we should evaluate him as we would Degas or Monet, and not as we would Joey B.


I think that if Degas or Monet spent all their time posting the same kind of crap that SBB does, they'd get called the same names that he does.
   816. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:29 AM (#4702863)
   817. Bitter Mouse Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:31 AM (#4702865)
Yeah but what about the insurance execs. They can give the REAL truth about things ...

Some specifics:

--The giant health insurer Wellpoint says the payment ratio of enrollees whose premium date has already passed is "ranging up to 90 percent."

--Health Care Service Corp., which operates Blue Cross/Blue Shield plans in Illinois, Montana, Oklahoma and Texas, says its payment ratio on exchange plans ranges from 85% to 88% for policies with effective dates from Jan. 1 through March 1. On policies effective April 1, the ratio was 83%. On those effective May 1, the rate is 68%, but as the company's witness said, the due date on many of those policies, which include a grace period, has not yet passed. This underscores the foolish mistake made in the committee's original report.

--Aetna said that as of the third week of April, it recorded 600,000 enrollees, of whom 500,000 had paid. If you're keeping score, that's 83%. In general, the company said, the payment rate has kept to the "low- to mid-80 percent range."
   818. bunyon Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:42 AM (#4702871)
Ooo, it feels so good to feel superior

Eh, it gets old after awhile.
   819. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:42 AM (#4702872)
As opposed to Joey B, Sugar Bear and Ray? Get serious. This is a very (politically) diverse crowd, and if you're going to start banning people for trolling you're not going to be able to stop with just the ones you don't like.

Ray is not remotely in the same category as Joey B. SBB is sui generis, and may be a recipient of a National Foundation of the Arts grant for some kind of performance trolling art installation. I think we should evaluate him as we would Degas or Monet, and not as we would Joey B.


Well put about Brown Diaper Joey B, but I'm not looking to ban anyone, regardless of what I think of their performance artistry. AFAIC the only way to approach trollery is to view our collection of trolls as an old fashioned anthropologist might look at the rituals of some long lost tribe of the South Sea Islands, right down to their misogyny, misanthropy, and desperate attempts to prove their superior status.

----------------------------------------

I see SBB as a performance artist

That's one way of putting it, though at this point he's mainly a reliable provider of drinking opportunities.




   820. Bitter Mouse Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:45 AM (#4702874)
SO I am curious as to what people think about this:
The Obama administration will issue new guidance to K-12 public schools around the country on Thursday, emphasizing that school officials can no longer discourage undocumented immigrants from enrolling in their schools.
   821. Ron J2 Posted: May 08, 2014 at 11:47 AM (#4702877)
Did Harding "mean well" or was he just out to enrich the Ohio gang?
   822. Mefisto Posted: May 08, 2014 at 12:04 PM (#4702883)
I'm not sure what "mean well" means in some contexts. Andrew Johnson wanted to re-establish a white man's republic. Was that "meaning well"?

I'm reminded of Talleyrand's comment about a French legislator: "He means well. He means very well. But he means it feebly."
   823. Morty Causa Posted: May 08, 2014 at 12:04 PM (#4702884)
"Mean well" means, like with perjury, you have to get into someone's head. And it's mostly immaterial to what should really be considered--which is, what that person did, is responsible for, and the effects of that. "Mean well" gets us back into self-righteous judgmentalism.
   824. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 12:13 PM (#4702886)
SO I am curious as to what people think about this:


It means he's buttressing his democratic colleagues for their pursuit of the latino vote in the fall elections.
   825. Greg K Posted: May 08, 2014 at 12:14 PM (#4702887)
I find "meaning well" a useful starting point for historical investigation, conceptually speaking. How a political figure (or anyone for that matter) intends to make the world, or his or her political unit, a better place can provide useful information into how they, and presumably the people following/supporting them, view the world. Sure, power itself is quite a draw, and a reading of any political figure's career consists, to some degree, of making sure they retain power rather than any ideological world view.

Of course, quite often that desire to retain power is so bound up with how someone sees the world that it's impossible to consciously separate the two.

As far as using "meaning well" as a measure of evaluating political leaders (as in, should I vote for this person?), I'd agree that it's more or less useless.
   826. Bitter Mouse Posted: May 08, 2014 at 12:41 PM (#4702896)
But did Buchanan actually not "mean well"?


Yeah I suggested him, because he did not seem to be motivated by "meaning well", he (according to his words anyway) was motivated by a strict reading of law. Or at least from my (ill informed perspective) it was that or an excuse to do nothing while the house around him caught fire.
   827. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 08, 2014 at 12:51 PM (#4702897)
They're following the precedent they set with Reagan. Lay low for a decade, wait for memories of your boobery to fade, then start the hagiography.

Surprised this hasn't been corrected already - it is simply not true. Republicans ran on Reagan's legacy as early as 1988 in the race to succeed him, and won big. They've never really stopped, although the effectiveness of the message may have faded with time, much like the Democrats homage to FDR.
   828. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 12:57 PM (#4702901)
They've never really stopped, although the effectiveness of the message may have faded with time


Gee, ya think?
   829. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 12:58 PM (#4702902)
   830. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 12:58 PM (#4702903)
Hard to believe how fast time flies but anyone under 30 doesn't even remember Reagan. Still suffering from his legacy nonetheless.
   831. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:01 PM (#4702905)
Yeah I suggested him, because he did not seem to be motivated by "meaning well", he (according to his words anyway) was motivated by a strict reading of law. Or at least from my (ill informed perspective) it was that or an excuse to do nothing while the house around him caught fire.


That's putting it mildly. Members of his own cabinet committed treason and he did nothing at all, just pretended nothing happened.
   832. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:05 PM (#4702907)
The young people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 are still very strong D supporters, and are likely to remain so throughout their lives.

I wouldn't count those chickens quite yet. The high school senior who voted for Obama in 2008 is through college and in the job market, and the figures are pretty bad for that age group. How long are those voters going to blame the GOP for Obama's Minimum Wage Economy? How happy is this group about being mandated to purchase ObamaCare policies in order to subsidize others? I expect to see lower Democratic support from this group & lower turnout, unless the economy improves dramatically, which (unfortunately) doesn't seem to be happening. That, along with the new young voters being less Democratic, is a net GOP plus. I don't think Democrats will have the same success "running against Bush" in 2014 & 2016 as they did in the past, and absent that message, they don't seem to have much to run on other than demonizing their opposition.
   833. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:06 PM (#4702909)
Hard to believe how fast time flies but anyone under 30 doesn't even remember Reagan.


He's the guy who negotiated with terrorists and cut and ran from Libya.
   834. McCoy Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:08 PM (#4702912)
They ran on the Reagan legacy in 1988 because, well, that is what former VPs for two term presidents do and Bush got a milquetoast opposing candidate to boot. Afterwards the recession hit and pretty much everyone tossed Reagan aside and he pretty much vanished during the 1990's. Granted his age and illness helped keep him out of the spotlight but it wasn't until somewhere in the mid 2000's that Reagan was again used in full force as a political tool. Who used Reagan's "shining city on the hill" phrasing in one of the convention?
   835. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:10 PM (#4702914)
How long are those voters going to blame the GOP for Obama's Minimum Wage Economy?


As long as they continue to protect and promote policies that shrink the middle class and widen income disparity.
   836. McCoy Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:10 PM (#4702915)

I wouldn't count those chickens quite yet. The high school senior who voted for Obama in 2008 is through college and in the job market, and the figures are pretty bad for that age group. How long are those voters going to blame the GOP for Obama's Minimum Wage Economy? How happy is this group about being mandated to purchase ObamaCare policies in order to subsidize others? I expect to see lower Democratic support from this group & lower turnout, unless the economy improves dramatically, which (unfortunately) doesn't seem to be happening. That, along with the new young voters being less Democratic, is a net GOP plus. I don't think Democrats will have the same success "running against Bush" in 2014 & 2016 as they did in the past, and absent that message, they don't seem to have much to run on other than demonizing their opposition.


Regardless of the job market very few young kids are going to side with the conservatives and consequently with the Republicans. There is a reason that liberals skew young and conservatives skew old and why that has been true for years and years.

Most kids are likely to blame the Republicans if they are going to blame a political party for any of their troubles than the Democratic party.
   837. Mefisto Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:11 PM (#4702916)
He's the guy who negotiated with terrorists and cut and ran from Libya.


Lebanon?
   838. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:11 PM (#4702917)
Who used Reagan's "shining city on the hill" phrasing in one of the convention?


Not sure but Gingrich never shuts up about Reagan.
   839. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:21 PM (#4702925)
Afterwards the recession hit and pretty much everyone tossed Reagan aside and he pretty much vanished during the 1990's.

You must have missed the 1994 election and/or Bob Dole's effort to run as Reagan's heir. While Reagan himself was out of the spotlight because of his illness, his party continued to embrace him. Pretending that Reagan was a political albatross like Jimmy Carter or George Bush is simply incorrect. In fact, IIRC, Rahm Emmanuel even blamed the Democrats 1994 loss on a Reagan sympathy vote after the announcement that he had Alzheimers.
   840. Srul Itza Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:28 PM (#4702933)
Bush got a milquetoast opposing candidate to boot


That's an insult -- to milquetoasts. If Dukakis was not the worst candidate in 100 years, he was in the running.

Not sure but Gingrich never shuts up about Reagan.


Gingrich never shuts up. Period. The most hateful, hate-filled, despicable little toad in politics.
   841. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:28 PM (#4702934)
He's the guy who negotiated with terrorists and cut and ran from Libya.

Lebanon?


The only appropriate response.
   842. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:33 PM (#4702938)
Re: #832--
I expect to see lower Democratic support from this group & lower turnout, unless the economy improves dramatically, which (unfortunately) doesn't seem to be happening. That, along with the new young voters being less Democratic, is a net GOP plus.

The voting percentages I posted in #782 show that the youth vote reliably ebbs for midterms, and surges during presidential years. It isn't the economy, or the tone of today's politics, or waning partisanship, or the changing mood of the country. It's 2:1 in turnout and you can book it.

Their votes are now heavily Democratic. Looking to 2016, there's no reason to think that a girl president will be less of a draw to younger voters than a black one. In the meantime, though, they're not going to show up.

The D/R gap used to be a lot narrower. The Republicans won the youth vote by tiny margins as recently as the 1994/98/02 midterms, typically ascribed to a generation coming of age under Ronald Reagan (who won the same youth vote by a lot more than 1% or 2%). Barack Obama may leave a similar electoral vapor trail into the 2020s.

As for 2014, there is no reason to think that the much smaller 18-to-29 vote will be a prominent factor in a Republican landslide, let alone a key factor. More Dem-leaning young people voted in the 2010 midterms than in 2006, but with the "opposite" results.

Now, young Republican support has really cratered. The GOP will need some work and luck and time and luck and time just to whittle their demographic disadvantage back down to single digits. They could certainly use another Ronald Reagan. But needless to say, that's exactly why Bill Kristol's pillow is soggy with tears.
   843. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:33 PM (#4702939)
Pretending that Reagan was a political albatross like Jimmy Carter or George Bush is simply incorrect.

It's delusional bordering on clinically insane -- of a piece with the meme that Clinton wasn't really impeached.

I'll let my audience decide which is more nuts.

   844. Morty Causa Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:41 PM (#4702944)
But not the "meme" that he wasn't convicted?
   845. Bitter Mouse Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:42 PM (#4702946)
The youth vote is not as enchanted with Dems as they were, but they still lean that way and likely will for a while yet. Young folks are much less religious and do not fear "teh gay", which puts them on the other side of much of the GOP. Young voters are also less white and more likely to favor "socialism".

So even if we don't see the extreme landslide like we did in 2008, I still expect them to vote Blue for the near future. Of course the senior set has moved firmly Red, so for now the GOP is OK (and better than that in midterms) vote wise.
   846. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 08, 2014 at 01:45 PM (#4702949)
If newer, disillusioned young voters were shifting rightward to any great degree, Republican state legislatures wouldn't be so quick to pass laws that a college ID no longer gets them into a voting booth.
   847. Lassus Posted: May 08, 2014 at 02:21 PM (#4702968)
I barely recall any portion of the decade following Reagan's presidency where pissing on his memory wasn't considered poor form by a pretty large bell-curve.

I suppose my memory could be wrong, it was awhile ago, but....
   848. BDC Posted: May 08, 2014 at 02:39 PM (#4702978)
pissing on his memory wasn't considered poor form

For some reason I find that incredibly hard to parse: triple negative, or a double negative pejorative, or something like that.

At any rate, I think I agree with you :) Compared to the open season on Jimmy Carter that started no later than 1979 and continues to this hour, Reagan was immediately invulnerable: a sort of permanent Teflon treatment.
   849. zonk Posted: May 08, 2014 at 02:40 PM (#4702979)
I barely recall any portion of the decade following Reagan's presidency where pissing on his memory wasn't considered poor form by a pretty large bell-curve.

I suppose my memory could be wrong, it was awhile ago, but....


No - you're remembering exactly as I remember.... He was well off his highs due to Iran-Contra and the '86 tax reform that was actually really good policy, but not exactly popular because it was a very technocratic effort to trim the hedges (and also one of those things that both left and right hated, but for totally different reasons.... in other words - it's the way compromise policy is supposed to be forged.)... but he still exited with ratings that would have easily afforded him a 3rd term (setting aside whether he was mentally able to actually run/serve again).
   850. The Good Face Posted: May 08, 2014 at 03:07 PM (#4702994)
I barely recall any portion of the decade following Reagan's presidency where pissing on his memory wasn't considered poor form by a pretty large bell-curve.

I suppose my memory could be wrong, it was awhile ago, but....


That meshes with my recollection. There was a decent chunk of the left who hated him, always had, and were vocal about it, but he was reasonably popular with a comfortable majority of the population, and even the people who didn't like him never made any traction running against his tenure or his memory. Totally different from both Carter and Dubya.
   851. zonk Posted: May 08, 2014 at 03:10 PM (#4702999)
So this is pretty interesting...

Sylvia Burwell - nominated to replace Sebelius as HHS Secretary (and as such, at the top of Obamacare) -- had her first hearing today. Even the standard, regular news had had brief little stories about 'bracing' for another round of GOP ACA attacks.

However, we saw exactly the opposite -- Kay Hagan used her time on the confirmation hearing to mount a strong defense of the ACA... Her NC colleague, Richard Burr, basically just said "Burwell's great. I look forward to voting for her. I've got other things to do now, so bye."

All the other GOP voices were extremely muted -- from the ACA hater perspective, this was a big fizzle.

Policy polling isn't the same as candidate polling.... The choice when it comes to candidate matchups is pretty easy -- either A, B, or none of 'em. Policy polling tends to require a more circumspect approach. After the House GOP fizzle on the insurance hearings -- I'm wondering if the worm has actually turned...
   852. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 08, 2014 at 03:14 PM (#4703002)
When you've got a president who comforts the comfortable and afflicts the afflicted but does it with an affable smile, you've got the perfect Teflon formula.
   853. Lassus Posted: May 08, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4703003)
There was a decent chunk of the left who hated him, always had, and were vocal about it

Well, right, as one of the ones pissing, I felt I recalled the reaction.


For some reason I find that incredibly hard to parse: triple negative, or a double negative pejorative, or something like that.

Skillz.
   854. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 03:19 PM (#4703004)
OHoh, Clapper. From zonk's link:

Hagan is one of the most vulnerable Senate Democrats, holding a slim 0.8 percent polling advantage over Tillis per Real Clear Politics. She has been one of the targets in the American for Prosperity's air campaign, which has attacked her for her support of the law.


Holding slim lead. I thought this seat was supposed to be a lynchpin for a GOP flip.

Maybe the poll needs to be unskewed.
   855. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 08, 2014 at 03:24 PM (#4703006)
That North Carolina Senate race is going to totally depend on turnout. The nominal demographics favor Hagen, but nominal voters don't necessarily vote in November.
   856. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 03:40 PM (#4703010)
Ok, so what the hell is going on in Russia? Putin goes through all this trouble to annex Crimea and stir up trouble in the east, setting the stage for a second annexation, possiblyone large enough to cut Ukraine off from the Black Sea, only to begin letting the air back out of the balloon. What gives?

These recent Reuters headlines may hint at the reasons:

Statoil head says no worry about European gas supply amid crisis

Cyprus says could offer Europe alternative gas supply

Merkel urges progress in Cyprus talks

Baltics Unfazed by Russian Threats to Cut Gas Supply

Iran Offers Europe Gas Amid Russian Energy Embargo Fears


Translation: Cooler heads who understand global macroeconomics better than he have finally begun to convince Putin that the risk of losing their gas markets in Europe far exceed any bendfit it will gain by grabbing a portion of ukraine.


   857. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 03:42 PM (#4703012)
That North Carolina Senate race is going to totally depend on turnout. The nominal demographics favor Hagen, but nominal voters don't necessarily vote in November.


I think Democrats in NC will be unusally motivated to turn out becasue of the recent high-profile legislative decisions by the GOP-dominated state legislature that the majority of voters didn't want.
   858. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:12 PM (#4703025)
Translation: Cooler heads who understand global macroeconomics better than he have finally begun to convince Putin that the risk of losing their gas markets in Europe far exceed any bendfit it will gain by grabbing a portion of ukraine.

Or he's lying just to make it look like he doesn't really control the fifth column.
   859. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:12 PM (#4703026)
How long are those voters going to blame the GOP for Obama's Minimum Wage Economy?


I'd call it the GOP minimum wage economy, but YMMV, the GOP has done everything humanly possible to stifle the recovery as long as Obama's been in office, it's really been one of their more contemptible practices, aside from the "anti-Keynesian" true believers (i.e, idiots) I don't know how some GOP politicos sleep at night, or given the religious beliefs of many whether or not they worry about a bolt of lightning striking them dead.
   860. Shredder Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:13 PM (#4703028)
I think Democrats in NC will be unusally motivated to turn out becasue of the recent high-profile legislative decisions by the GOP-dominated state legislature that the majority of voters didn't want.
Of course, many of them probably won't be able to vote thanks in large part to those very same legislative decisions.
   861. Joe Kehoskie Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:13 PM (#4703029)
Retrospective job approval - Reagan.

LOL. Reagan's job approval when he left office in Jan. 1989 was 68 percent, with only 26 percent disapproving. The GOP only "laid low for a decade" with regard to Reagan in YR's delusions.

***
I'd call it the GOP minimum wage economy, but YMMV, the GOP has done everything humanly possible to stifle the recovery as long as Obama's been in office, it's really been one of their more contemptible practices, aside from the "anti-Keynesian" true believers (i.e, idiots) I don't know how some GOP politicos sleep at night, or given the religious beliefs of many whether or not they worry about a bolt of lightning striking them dead.

Funny stuff. The GOP was to blame when it held the White House and Congress, and the GOP was to blame when it held nothing, as it did for the first years of Obama's presidency.
   862. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:16 PM (#4703031)
Iran Offers Europe Gas Amid Russian Energy Embargo Fears


What a bunch of effing weasels, juts about their only effing ally in all of Europe and they're more than willing to stab Putin in the back to make few bucks.
   863. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:18 PM (#4703032)
The GOP only "laid low for a decade" vis-a-vis Reagan in YR's delusions.

Yeah, that really is an all-timer. To this day, 25 years after he left the spotlight, three-quarters-plus of Republican rhetoric revolves around the theme of "Why can't we find another Reagan, if only we could find another Reagan??"

   864. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:19 PM (#4703033)
Does this sound like distancing oneself from Reagan? Although Bush might have laid low.
   865. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:24 PM (#4703034)
Or he's lying just to make it look like he doesn't really control the fifth column.


could be, or his control of them may looser than you realize, of course it's obvious to us that he'd sell out his supporters/followers in a heartbeat, but it may not be to them (until now).

From what I've been able to glean from International News is that many of these Eastern Ukrainian pro-Russians, are in fact ethnic Russians or pro-Soviet Nationalists, military veterans, who really believe in what they are doing- and tend to regard Putin as one of them- they do what he tells them to do in large part not because he's paying/arming/supporting them (though that helps) but because he's telling them to do what they want to do anyway.

Putin of course regards them as pawns on his chessboard, he'll toss not just them personally aside in a heart beat, he'll toss their goals aside too if it suits him. They may not be so manageable if/when he does.
   866. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:26 PM (#4703035)
Funny stuff.


Thank you I'll be here all week, have you tried the veal?
   867. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:28 PM (#4703036)
LOL. Reagan's job approval when he left office in Jan. 1989 was 68 percent, with only 26 percent disapproving. The GOP only "laid low for a decade" with regard to Reagan in YR's delusions.


1989, that'd be a few years before this. I think the retrospective polling data I linked to, in conjunction with the hagiography project linked below, tell a nice complementary tale.
   868. Joe Kehoskie Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:30 PM (#4703038)
Thank you I'll be here all week, have you tried the veal?

A liberal recommending veal? Tsk, tsk.
   869. Joey B. "disrespects the A" Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:30 PM (#4703039)
I'd call it the GOP minimum wage economy, but YMMV, the GOP has done everything humanly possible to stifle the recovery as long as Obama's been in office, it's really been one of their more contemptible practices, aside from the "anti-Keynesian" true believers (i.e, idiots) I don't know how some GOP politicos sleep at night, or given the religious beliefs of many whether or not they worry about a bolt of lightning striking them dead.

Hey moron, the last five and a half years have been a Keynesian stimulative orgy the likes of which most of us have never seen: the TARP bailout, six trillion dollars of public debt accumulated (almost doubling what it was at the start of the period), and trillions more printed and directly injected into the investment banking system via the Federal Reserve's quantitative easing.

If the results haven't been good enough for your liking (and how could they be, with the pathetic 0.1% of GDP growth in the first quarter), it's because your economic theory sucks.
   870. JE (Jason) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:30 PM (#4703040)
Double post.
   871. JE (Jason) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:31 PM (#4703042)
Regarding Putin, Kevin, he isn't "letting air back out of the balloon." Putin still wants the financial benefits of control of Donetsk but doesn't actually wish to occupy the place.
   872. Joe Kehoskie Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:33 PM (#4703045)
1989, that'd be a few years before this. I think the retrospective polling data I linked to, in conjunction with the hagiography project linked below, tell a nice complementary tale.

Still LOL. You're actually doubling down on this? Reagan was wildly popular when he left office. One probably couldn't find a GOP candidate in the very late 1980s or 1990s who didn't invoke his name and legacy. The difference between the GOP and Reagan in 1988 and the GOP and Bush in 2008 almost couldn't be greater.
   873. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:33 PM (#4703046)
Hey moron, the last five and a half years have been a Keynesian stimulative orgy the likes of which most of us have never seen: six trillion dollars of public debt accumulated (almost doubling what it was at the start of the period) and trillions more printed and directly injected into the investment banking system via the Federal Reserve's quantitative easing.

If the results haven't been good enough for your liking (and how could they be, with the pathetic 0.1% of GDP growth in the first quarter), it's because your economic theory sucks.


Keynesianism hasn't worked because the economy is broken. We're in decline.
   874. Bitter Mouse Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4703048)
Hey moron, the last five and a half years have been a Keynesian stimulative orgy the likes of which most of us have never seen: six trillion dollars of public debt accumulated (almost doubling what it was at the start of the period) and trillions more printed and directly injected into the investment banking system via the Federal Reserve's quantitative easing.

If the results haven't been good enough for your liking (and how could they be, with the pathetic 0.1% of GDP growth in the first quarter), it's because your economic theory sucks.


This post is full of nonsense. Most economists think the various stimulus packages were too low, much too low, and if you look at debt to GNP we are not at historic levels at all.
   875. JE (Jason) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4703049)
Still LOL. You're actually doubling down on this?

You're shocked, why exactly? This is typical Yankee Redneck shtick, which makes even Sam's climate disruption "arguments" appear even-keeled.
   876. JE (Jason) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:42 PM (#4703051)
   877. Ron J2 Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:48 PM (#4703054)
#865 And there's already evidence that Putin has less than total control over the eastern Ukrainians. He told them to cancel the independence votes and last I heard they were still going forward.
   878. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 08, 2014 at 04:51 PM (#4703055)
Still LOL. You're actually doubling down on this?


I'm presenting the evidence at-hand.

Reagan was wildly popular when he left office.


And less popular afterwards as his malfeasance and terrorist-symapthies came to the fore. This is reflected in the longitudinal polling numbers I posted. Look at the dates - the nadir coincides with revelations from the Casper Weinberger trial.

One probably couldn't find a GOP candidate in the very late 1980s or 1990s who didn't invoke his name and legacy.


Indeed, I think they stopped just short of taxidermy. The opposition kept getting more votes though.

The difference between the GOP and Reagan in 1988 and the GOP and Bush in 2008 almost couldn't be greater.


The path has been laid. Reagan's popularity surged as part of a concerted and well-funded effort to lionize him nationwide. I'm surprised you're bothering to argue otherwise. If a similarly expensive effort can boost Emperor Dimwit to the point where people don't want to pelt him with overripe fruit every time he ventures out in public it will be a comparable triumph of PR.
   879. SteveF Posted: May 08, 2014 at 05:05 PM (#4703061)
He told them to cancel the independence votes and last I heard they were still going forward.

Multiple conclusions can be drawn. The evidence isn't that Putin told them to cancel the vote. The evidence is the press reporting that Putin told them to cancel the vote. What Putin is actually telling the people in eastern Ukraine is something to which we aren't privy.
   880. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 08, 2014 at 05:07 PM (#4703062)
Holding slim lead. I thought this seat was supposed to be a lynchpin for a GOP flip.

People who were paying attention are aware that the GOP primary was just Tuesday. The candidate (Thom Tillis) most observers gave the best chance of winning the seat got the nomination. Good news for the GOP, and bad news for Democrats who took the unusual step of intervening in an opposing party's primary by running anti-Tillis ads suggesting (incorrectly) that he supported ObamaCare. That's not something an incumbent in good electoral shape does.

Take a look at Hagan's favorable/unfavorable rating. She is well below the 50% cut-off that is almost universally recognized as a sign of an incumbent in trouble. North Carolina is an important race, and it might well be the key to control of the Senate since my gut tells me it is about the 6th most winnable seat for the GOP, after South Dakota, West Virginia, Montana, Louisiana & Arkansas. There are other pick-up opportunities, but unless local issues become paramount, I'd be a bit surprised if the GOP does better elsewhere than NC.
   881. Joe Kehoskie Posted: May 08, 2014 at 05:11 PM (#4703064)
I'm presenting the evidence at-hand.

Presenting or unskewing?

Reagan was wildly popular when he left office and he was commonly invoked by GOP candidates in late-1980s and early-1990s political campaigns. Reagan's approval dipped from 1992 to '94 but never dropped below 50 percent, and his name was invoked all the time during the "Contract with America" push in 1994, roughly half of which came straight from Reagan's 1985 State of the Union address. By late 1994, with the GOP having taken control of the House, he was Saint Ronnie. The idea that the GOP distanced itself from Reagan for a decade is just laughably incorrect and revisionist.

The path has been laid. Reagan's popularity surged as part of a concerted and well-funded effort to lionize him nationwide. I'm surprised you're bothering to argue otherwise. If a similarly expensive effort can boost Emperor Dimwit to the point where people don't want to pelt him with overripe fruit every time he ventures out in public it will be a comparable triumph of PR.

Yeah, Reagan's post-office popularity had nothing to do with the booming 1980s economy or the end of the Cold War or any of Reagan's other accomplishments and personality traits. It was all due to a crafty p.r. effort.
   882. bunyon Posted: May 08, 2014 at 05:20 PM (#4703067)
No - you're remembering exactly as I remember.... He was well off his highs due to Iran-Contra and the '86 tax reform that was actually really good policy, but not exactly popular because it was a very technocratic effort to trim the hedges (and also one of those things that both left and right hated, but for totally different reasons.... in other words - it's the way compromise policy is supposed to be forged.)... but he still exited with ratings that would have easily afforded him a 3rd term (setting aside whether he was mentally able to actually run/serve again).

I've always wondered; if Reagan is mentally coherent in 1992 and is willing to campaign for GHW Bush, is that enough to turn the election? Reagan was very popular as I recall it, in a way that Bush never was. I can imagine a prime Reagan convincing lots of Perot voters to give Bush a break. Of course, it was my first election, so it could easily have been just my little patch (and my state at the time went safely for Bush, though with lots and lots of Perot voters).
   883. Lassus Posted: May 08, 2014 at 05:21 PM (#4703068)
OK, I was one of the first people to agree that Reagan's narrative was popular for ten years after he left. Noted already, and stated. However, this:
Still LOL. You're actually doubling down on this?
This is typical Yankee Redneck shtick, which makes even Sam's climate disruption "arguments" appear even-keeled.
in reaction to this:
I think the retrospective polling data I linked to, in conjunction with the hagiography project linked below, tell a nice complementary tale.

Is Hannity-esque shrill oversell.
   884. Joe Kehoskie Posted: May 08, 2014 at 05:26 PM (#4703070)

It appears Lassus doesn't know what "shrill" means.
   885. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: May 08, 2014 at 05:51 PM (#4703075)
A liberal recommending veal? Tsk, tsk.


I'd turn conservative before I'd turn vegetarian
   886. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: May 08, 2014 at 05:54 PM (#4703076)
We're in decline.


DRINK!

   887. Shredder Posted: May 08, 2014 at 06:01 PM (#4703081)
This post is full of nonsense.
You should have been able to figure that out when you saw who posted it.
   888. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 08, 2014 at 06:02 PM (#4703082)
We're in decline.


DRINK!

Hey, start your own drinking game. I'm saving my quaffs for "modern liberals".
   889. Joey B. "disrespects the A" Posted: May 08, 2014 at 06:06 PM (#4703086)
if you look at debt to GNP we are not at historic levels at all.

I guess we should all root for Russia to hurry up and get World War III started already so that we can get to where you think we ought to be.

Or even better, maybe aliens from outer space can finally attack earth, and the advanced nations can join together in the mother of all deficit spending binges. We could call it "The Full Krugman".
   890. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 08, 2014 at 06:13 PM (#4703090)
Or even better, maybe aliens from outer space can finally attack earth

Right, and I have a pretty good idea we'll know who their leader will be. We'll be able to smell his brown-stained diaper from here to Mars.
   891. Lassus Posted: May 08, 2014 at 06:30 PM (#4703095)
It appears Lassus doesn't know what "shrill" means.

Direct from your link:
4. betraying some strong emotion or attitude in an exaggerated amount, as antagonism or defensiveness.
This would be the adjective for your all-caps LOL and following description. Stick to sports agenting.

(Probably not as accurate for Jason, but the whole "shtick' description for such a low-impact presentation, and compared to Sam? I'll stand by it.)
   892. Joe Kehoskie Posted: May 08, 2014 at 06:43 PM (#4703102)

Lassus, you must not get out much if you believe:

Still LOL. You're actually doubling down on this?

... "betray[ed] some strong emotion or attitude in an exaggerated amount."

It was incredulous, not "shrill."

This would be the adjective for your all-caps LOL

All caps for an acronym? Oh, the horror.
   893. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 08, 2014 at 07:09 PM (#4703109)
Both ABC & NBC are giving quite a bit of coverage tonight to what appears to be a Veterans Administration scandal, centering on the Phoenix VA Hospital. Among the allegations are that administrators ensured that they would receive bonuses by denying services to veterans so there'd be no waiting list that would adversely affect the bonuses. Seems worth investigating thoroughly, and as usually is the case, any cover-up might be worse than the original offense.
   894. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 08, 2014 at 07:50 PM (#4703118)
Both ABC & NBC are giving quite a bit of coverage tonight to what appears to be a Veterans Administration scandal, centering on the Phoenix VA Hospital. Among the allegations are that administrators ensured that they would receive bonuses by denying services to veteran

This really makes me mad. The last time I went to the VA, it was horrible, really long wait times, so I never went back. Fortunately, I had private insurance, so I didn't need to. I also didn't want to use the system and clog it up for other veterans who really needed the services. My dad used it all the time. He lived in Cleveland though, so maybe the hospital was better there.
   895. Lassus Posted: May 08, 2014 at 07:55 PM (#4703119)
...or attitude in an exaggerated amount.

"LOL" is absolutely you expressing an exaggerated attitude as antagonism (which I see you left out). Did you actually laugh out loud? Honestly, I'm not there, but that's a pretty easy no, you exaggerated. Do you type that expression to antagonize? I mean, that's up for debate as it's a judgment of your internal intent, but it seems a pretty easy yes.

It is shrill.

I mean, fight the definition of words if you must.
   896. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 08, 2014 at 07:58 PM (#4703121)
Also on the scandal front - How Much Porn Does It Take To Get Fired At EPA?
As a U.S. House committee looked at allegations that a special homeland security unit within the Environmental Protection Agency was blocking investigations by the EPA's Inspector General, lawmakers also veered into other internal probes at that agency, demanding to know why it is so difficult to get rid of federal workers involved in on-the-job misconduct.

"When we have an employee who is looking at over 600 porn sites in a four day period - and it's there in black and white - fire them!" said Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT).

At the hearing, investigators detailed for lawmakers how a six figure EPA employee had admitted watching large amounts of porn on the job; he remains on the payroll, but his case has been referred to the Justice Department for possible prosecution.

"So this guy is making $125,000, spending two to six hours a day looking at porno," said Rep. John Mica (R-FL), who was told by officials that the worker had been given performance awards - despite one time spending four straight hours on a website called, "Sadism is Beautiful."

No indication anyone had a problem with BBTF.
   897. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 08:04 PM (#4703122)
Good news for the GOP, and bad news for Democrats who took the unusual step of intervening in an opposing party's primary by running anti-Tillis ads suggesting (incorrectly) that he supported ObamaCare.


Correct. And those attack ads have taken a toll on Tillis, which explains why he is now behind Hagan, to the chagrin of the GOP, who were counting on that seat.
   898. Lassus Posted: May 08, 2014 at 08:07 PM (#4703123)
Among the allegations are that administrators ensured that they would receive bonuses by denying services to veterans so there'd be no waiting list that would adversely affect the bonuses.

Holy stupid. Unfortunately, it obviously worked for a time.


"When we have an employee who is looking at over 600 porn sites in a four day period - and it's there in black and white - fire them!"

Whoa, whoa, whoa. It's in black and white? That's not porn, that's erotica!
   899. Publius Publicola Posted: May 08, 2014 at 08:08 PM (#4703124)
No indication anyone had a problem with BBTF.


Yeah, you're retired, right?
   900. GordonShumway Posted: May 08, 2014 at 08:20 PM (#4703127)
In regards to the youth vote, the youth demographic is anywhere between 35-40% (depending on your selected age range) black or Latino/Hispanic. Given how much more favorable Democratic policies are to such groups I really, really doubt that a majority of younger people are going to be voting Republican any time in the foreseeable future.
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