The reason it is a dog whistle is shown on this thread, it sounds so innocent, but in reality it is all about making like as horrible, as miserable as possible. Oddly enough this process of making life hell for illegals does collateral damage to their friends and families, many of whom are citizens.

I stated in my summary the exact (granting that it's ridiculous to be this exact given the uncertainty in these numbers, but whatever) number Obama was losing:

I never said that. I said "Those who are IDing as "Independent" are voting more Republican this cycle." Based only on looking at this dataset, I'd argue that the reasons for the shirt in independents towards Romney is:

1) More new independents previously identified Rep than Dem, and would vote as such
2) Romney has picked up some votes among those who were independent in both 08 and now

And, I'd put slightly more weight on 1) than 2). Again, just based on this data. I'll show you the numbers I used if you like. :-)

Again, this assumes that independents will be just as kind to him as they were in '08, which they won't. You're handwaving them away.

(shrugs) More votes is more votes, unless it's the year 2000.

Again, it doesn't just "sound" innocent; it is innocent. The alternative is rounding people up physically, holding them in captivity for a while, and then forcibly shipping them out. (At gunpoint!) That's a lot harsher and more punitive than convincing them to leave voluntarily, and a lot harder on all these citizens who allegedly hang out with illegal immigrants.

Part registration is done for a variety of reasons. Once you register most people will stay in their party affiliation, even if they are not voting this way. We have had someone (Bob D I think) mention he was registered R so he could influence primaries, but nationally voted D (sorry if I am getting the specifics wrong). The whole south is filled with folks who registered as D years ago and have been voting R nationally. Recently my understanding is a fair number of GOP types have stopped identifying as R, but are still pretty darn likely to vote R (many Tea Party types do this).

Is it the most miserable possible thing? No, of course not. Is applying pressure on immigrants in hopes of driving the illegal immigrants away (self deporting) innocent? Well the Hispanic community doesn't think it is innocent - they see it as an attack on people who are not white.

Right, except that the whole point of this debate is that it seems tough for Obama to win

According to you and Andy, but not according to actual polls of Latinos. At just 5 percent, immigration ranks ahead of only "not sure" (3 percent) and terrorism (3 percent) as Latinos' biggest concern.

By pointing out the "odd" numbers regarding Party ID the implication is the poll is not random somehow. But as we have discussed (to death) Party ID from pollsters doesn't really show that at all.

Meanwhile, Drudge has just lost his status as a Man Who Matters.

Right now, he's pimping a second secret Obama "race speech," but these remarks: 1. from 2007; 2. were covered by the media at the time; 3. aren't much of a secret because it's been on YouTube for years. Weaksauce.

Which proves what? No one said it was their biggest concern. All I have said is it is driving a solidification of the Latino vote to the D vote. In fact I explicitly stated earlier (last thread) that it didn't matter that much because the GOP was pretty close to the floor of Latino (I think I said Hispanic - interesting the difference in usage of those two words - very regional in nature i believe) vote and there wasn't much that was going to change the current vote away from Romney.

Right now, he's pimping a second secret Obama "race speech," but these remarks: 1. from 2007; 2. were covered by the media at the time; 3. aren't much of a secret because it's been on YouTube for years. Weaksauce.

No one has said that? Andy has been claiming for days that Romney could have been getting a much bigger chuck of the Latino vote if only he hadn't uttered that incredibly racist and offensive term "self-deportation."

Right now, he's pimping a second secret Obama "race speech," but these remarks: 1. from 2007; 2. were covered by the media at the time; 3. aren't much of a secret because it's been on YouTube for years. Weaksauce.

This is probably an incredible oversimplification, but it is interesting to me that the republican party, which is theoretically more in favor of a free market than the other guys, wants to artificially restrict the labor market because of immigration issues.

which is theoretically more in favor of a free market than the other guys

Meanwhile, Drudge has just lost his status as a Man Who Matters.

Yes, Republicans who generally like cheap labor now want to restrict low-skilled immigration,

I suppose I'm ignoring the housing situation and the role that equity spending played in consumer spending during the previous generation, but the fact remains -- I don't see a situation where wages rise until two things happen:

1) Snapper-esque protectionism in some form -- corporate tax penalties for offshoring, etc

2) A cease to the organized movement to shrink union power

What we need is wage growth... a humming job market will only go so far to accomplish that.

Durbin: Feds to write $165 million check to state for unused prison

U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin said today that under President Barack Obama’s directive, the federal Department of Justice will purchase the long-unused Thomson prison in northwestern Illinois, cutting a check and bypassing the objections of a veteran Republican U.S. House member who had blocked the sale.

[...]

The prison is expected to draw workers and business from neighboring Iowa, a swing state where Obama and Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney are battling.

Everywhere I'd go, I'd get two questions. First, they'd ask, "Where'd you get that funny name, Barack Obama?" Because people just couldn't pronounce it. They'd call me " Alabama," or they'd call me "Yo Mama." And I'd tell them that my father was from Kenya, and that's where I got my name. And my mother was from Kansas, and that's where I got my accent from.

Whooo boy, that'll piss off them Kansans...

Another day, another $165,000,000 in taxpayer money being used by Obama

Another day, another $165,000,000 in taxpayer money being used by Obama to bribe voters:

The damn thing was built by the state 10 years ago and has never been used, it was appraised at $220mm and the Feds actually plan on using the damn thing.

No the Republicans who generally like cheap labor, do not and have never wanted to restrict low-skilled immigration.

Here's the text of the speech if anyone wants to read it.

Please stop peeing on our legs and telling us it's raining.

This prison was built in 2001 for $140 million and has sat vacant ever since. (Great job, Illinois.) Since when do properties appreciate by 50 percent after sitting vacant for a decade?

This was an Illinois bailout engineered by Illinois politicians and a president from Illinois, and it was timed to bolster Obama's electoral chances in Iowa.

the sestak affair

This prison was built in 2001 for $140 million and has sat vacant ever since. (Great job, Illinois.) Since when do properties appreciate by 50 percent after sitting vacant for a decade?

This was an Illinois bailout engineered by Illinois politicians and a president from Illinois, and it was timed to bolster Obama's electoral chances in Iowa.

It would have been just fine with the GOP if Obama were

It's a big piece of property, buildings have been built, parking lot, power, water, security, etc. There's a lot of value in that. And I don't know about other places, but property appreciates a lot in my neck of the woods over a decade.

A few meager dollars here and there completely locks up the poor, the minorities, just a pittance and they accept the bribe, but seniors they are totally different. They ignore the easy bribe. I guess. Or something. Basically the whole government bribing people is more than a little silly.

What are you talking about? Trillions of dollars have been spent on the welfare state. Only a liberal would call that a "few meager dollars."

3) health care spend stops rising and / or an end to tax-free employer sponsored health care ?

Well like I said, the people (poor and minorities) you claim are completely bribed by the government to vote for Democrats get MUCH less money than the people (seniors) the GOP is counting on. Seems to me if bribery were all it took Seniors would definitely be voting D and especially Obama.

3) health care spend stops rising and / or an end to tax-free employer sponsored health care ?

“The people down in New Orleans they don’t care about as much!” Obama shouts in the video, which was shot in June of 2007 at Hampton University in Virginia. By contrast, survivors of Sept. 11 and Hurricane Andrew received generous amounts of aid, Obama explains. The reason? Unlike residents of majority-black New Orleans, the federal government considers those victims “part of the American family."

The racially charged and at times angry speech undermines Obama’s carefully-crafted image as a leader eager to build bridges between ethnic groups. For nearly 40 minutes, using an accent he almost never adopts in public, Obama describes a racist, zero-sum society, in which the white majority profits by exploiting black America. The mostly black audience shouts in agreement. The effect is closer to an Al Sharpton rally than a conventional campaign event.

“Now here’s the thing,” Obama continues, “when 9-11 happened in New York City, they waived the Stafford Act — said, ‘This is too serious a problem. We can’t expect New York City to rebuild on its own. Forget that dollar you gotta put in. Well, here’s ten dollars.’ And that was the right thing to do. When Hurricane Andrew struck in Florida, people said, ‘Look at this devastation. We don’t expect you to come up with y’own money, here. Here’s the money to rebuild. We’re not gonna wait for you to scratch it together — because you’re part of the American family.’”

That’s not, Obama says, what is happening in majority-black New Orleans. “What’s happening down in New Orleans? Where’s your dollar? Where’s your Stafford Act money?” Obama shouts, angry now. “Makes no sense! Tells me that somehow, the people down in New Orleans they don’t care about as much!”

It’s a remarkable moment, and not just for its resemblance to Kayne West’s famous claim that “George Bush doesn’t care about black people,” but also because of its basic dishonesty. By January of 2007, six months before Obama’s Hampton speech, the federal government had sent at least $110 billion to areas damaged by Katrina. Compare this to the mere $20 billion that the Bush administration pledged to New York City after Sept. 11.

Does somebody seriously want to claim that there wasn't more than five times as much damage to New Orleans as to New York City? I could be convinced, maybe, but it doesn't seem likely.

Joe, you can't seriously believe that video is going to move the needle.

The video on page 2 of the link in #160 is remarkable. The video switches back and forth between Obama speaking in Hampton and then Obama's subsequent comments distancing himself from Jeremiah Wright. Obama was using his phony preacher voice in Hampton, but he spoke in his usual voice when backtracking from Wright.

The Republicans have squeezed all they can from the Reverend Wright stone.

Apparently, Newt was just on FOX saying this video is a nontroversy.

Hey, a vote for Newt is a vote for a moon colony.

Mitt Romney’s advisers have long insisted that economic doldrums—not immigration policy—would turn Hispanic voters toward the Republican nominee.

But Romney’s decision to break his silence on allowing young illegal immigrants to stay in the United States reflects a shift in that failing strategy and an implicit admission that the increasingly powerful Hispanic vote could, in part, cost him the election.

After months of mostly stonewalling about President Obama’s order to stop deporting children brought to the United States illegally by their parents, Romney told The Denver Post on Monday that he would not repeal those temporary visas. When Obama made the announcement in June, Romney criticized it as a politically motivated maneuver and said he would “replace and supersede” the order with a “long-term solution.”

Romney’s amended immigration policy comes as a new CNN poll shows 64 percent of registered voters supporting Obama's move. Polls also show Obama trouncing Romney in the fast-growing Hispanic community. Four million more Hispanic voters will be eligible to vote in 2012 than in 2008, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, though their turnout has lagged behind black and white voters.

“With Romney’s current level of support among Latinos, he loses," said Ana Navarro, who advised former GOP nominee John McCain on Hispanic issues. “He has no option but to keep trying to make up ground.”

“With Romney’s current level of support among Latinos, he loses," said Ana Navarro, who advised former GOP nominee John McCain on Hispanic issues. “He has no option but to keep trying to make up ground.”

I will be very surprised if Obama's debate strategy isn't simply to compare/contrast Romney's stance on every issue to Romney's prior stance on every issue earlier in the year/decade/career.

Why not just guarantee a minimum level of income for every household (say, $40k) and cut all government-administered welfare systems? This would preserve the "welfare state" by providing for the poor, would eliminate government waste, and would re-institute some level of personal responsibility. Everyone is satisfied.

Why not just guarantee a minimum level of income for every household (say, $40k) and cut all government-administered welfare systems? This would preserve the "welfare state" by providing for the poor, would eliminate government waste, and would re-institute some level of personal responsibility. Everyone is satisfied.

I'm liberal, want the safety net, but I'm not sure the UBI is the most efficient. Healthy 25 year olds, 30 year olds, who can work, should be working if at all possible.

If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

He who does not work, neither shall he eat

Every citizen will make his particular contribution to the activities of the community according to his capacity, his talent and his age; it is on this basis that his duties will be determined, in conformity with the distributive laws.

He who does not work shall not eat

The shift on immigration seems so poorly executed.

Take your pick....

X by the Romney campaign seems so poorly executed (fill in your own X). What have they done that has impressed anyone so far? I can't think of anything they have pulled off that has impressed me in either the Primaries or the main campaign.

X by the Romney campaign seems so poorly executed (fill in your own X).

X by the Romney campaign seems so poorly executed (fill in your own X). What have they done that has impressed anyone so far? I can't think of anything they have pulled off that has impressed me in either the Primaries or the main campaign.

This seems to have become a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. All political calculations, by all pols, are political calculations and "managed" for optics. But Romney's core message is his plasticity and lack of a guiding center, so any time he does a basic political calculation it actually feeds into the negative image of him as a soulless automaton. I have no idea how he would break that cycle.

I'm liberal, want the safety net, but I'm not sure the UBI is the most efficient. Healthy 25 year olds, 30 year olds, who can work, should be working if at all possible.

we all have a moral responsibility to contribute to our own independent well-being

But of course any "healthy 25 year olds, 30 year olds" without any independent source of income*** should be working to support themselves one way or another.. (emphasis in the original)

So I'm guessing the other political thread got shut down.

So are people watching the debate tonight?