Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, October 02, 2012

OTP: October 2012-THE RACE: As Candidates Prep, Attention in DC split between politics and baseball

While President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney bone up in Nevada and Colorado for Wednesday’s opening debate, back in the nation’s capital attention is split between the hard-fought presidential race and baseball playoffs.

The Nationals won the first division baseball championship for a Washington team since 1933 by clinching the National League East race Monday night.

Washington, D.C., has the only ballpark where so many Cabinet members, politicians and other luminaries routinely gather and where fans now are openly rooting for a particular president — one who served more than a century ago, Theodore Roosevelt.

“Let Teddy Win” banners and buttons are everywhere. Fans like 2008 GOP presidential nominee Sen. John McCain of Arizona say it’s time for Roosevelt’s 500-plus losing streak to end.

[...]

“Teddy, you are the victim of a vast left-wing conspiracy by the commie pinko libs in this town,” McCain said in a video played in the stadium Monday night. “But you can overcome that.”

The October 2012 “OT: Politics” thread starts ... now.

Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 02, 2012 at 02:14 PM | 6119 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nationals, politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 25 of 62 pages ‹ First  < 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 >  Last ›
   2401. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:00 PM (#4273213)
For what it's worth, the Sullivan-pendulum is all in for Obama so far tonight. And as flighty as his live-blogging, drama queen act can be, he does seem to have a knack for calling these things pretty well out of the gate.


Professor Obama stayed home and Community Organizer Obama showed up.

I don't know if that plays better or not, but I think Obama is clearly having a much better night than last time out.
   2402. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:02 PM (#4273219)
Professor Obama stayed home and Community Organizer Obama showed up.


That's funny because my girlfriend, who is a professor, said that she can tell Obama used to teach because unlike Romney he is addressing the whole crowd.
   2403. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:03 PM (#4273221)
I think Obama is clearly having a much better night than last time out.

Yes. This debate is much more even than the last.
   2404. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:04 PM (#4273222)
No I will not talk about self-deportation.
   2405. The Ghost fouled out, but stays in the game Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4273226)
For the third debate, let's put each one in their own soundproof booth and mute them anytime they stray from the rules.
   2406. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:09 PM (#4273232)
The audience really adds nothing to these debates.
   2407. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:09 PM (#4273233)
Uh-oh, they got a commercial in there.
   2408. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:09 PM (#4273234)
The audience really adds nothing to these debates.

It does keep the candidates somewhat on topic. They can't ignore an audience member like they can a moderator.
   2409. SteveF Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:09 PM (#4273236)
That's what happens when you let a middle aged white guy ask a question.
   2410. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4273237)
Uh-oh, they got a commercial in there.


Who did? I'm watching on PBS to feel superior and they didn't have one.
   2411. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:11 PM (#4273241)
If the GOP wants to claim this --

This panel of undecided voters from Daily Kos threads is asking some good questions.


I don't think I'd argue... I'm not saying the audience is full of plants (Christ, Michelle Malkin would start hiding in the bushes outside people's houses) -- but the questions do seem to be much more up Obama's alley than Romney's... and some of them are framed in ways that aren't friendly to Romney.

Still - it's a blue state, even if it's in a purplish area - so maybe this is just the crowd of 'undecideds' you get from a blue state.
   2412. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:14 PM (#4273245)
If the GOP comes out of this debate complaining about the moderator or crowd/questions, Romney lost the debate.
   2413. SteveF Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:16 PM (#4273249)
If the GOP comes out of this debate complaining about the moderator or crowd/questions, Romney lost the debate.


Well, Romney needed a win given where he is in the polls. So even if it's a draw I think you'll see the GOP complain given a draw is all Obama needs.
   2414. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:17 PM (#4273254)
Obama: This is getting uncomfortable, so let's change the subject.
   2415. Rickey! In a van on 95 south... Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4273255)
Well, Romney needed a win given where he is in the polls. So even if it's a draw I think you'll see the GOP complain given a draw is all Obama needs.


Yep. The first debate was a big win for Romney, but he was way down to start. If this one is a "draw" the math still favors Obama.
   2416. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4273258)
Well, Romney needed a win given where he is in the polls.

How so? The polls are showing a dead heat.
   2417. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4273259)
Timeline doesn't work there, Mr. President.
   2418. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4273261)
Joe! Where you been?

You know Obama is killing it when this is the first time you hear from JoeK.
   2419. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:20 PM (#4273264)
What's the format for the third debate?
   2420. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM (#4273268)
Rochambeau.
   2421. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM (#4273269)
Guns? You want to talk about guns? No, no, no.
   2422. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM (#4273270)
Rochambeau.

?????
   2423. Famous Original Joe C Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4273276)
Just google it, geez.
   2424. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4273277)
I give up on guns... I think all liberals have...

I don't know why people even bother... America loves its guns... The GOP is bought and paid for by the NRA and the Democrats are scared shitless to say boo on gun control.

So, fine -- I will cede the issue and solution to the right on this... Just give me some answer that doesn't have me feeling like the answer is either for me or for half the people around me to walking around like we've just wandered into Deadwood, because 'get a gun' just isn't something I have any interest in as a solution.

   2425. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4273280)
half the people around me to walking around like we've just wandered into Deadwood

You know how many people got killed by guns in that TV show? Not a lot.
   2426. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:25 PM (#4273282)
Just google it, geez.

I did. All I got is stuff about the Revolutionary War general and some rock-paper-scissor game.
   2427. SteveF Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:26 PM (#4273290)
How so? The polls are showing a dead heat.


Last I saw Romney was behind in Ohio. He needs Ohio to win. That assumes he wins Florida and Virginia. That said, talking about polling is pretty boring, so I'll just read whatever you have to say in response and rethink my position in light of whatever facts you have and not actually respond.
   2428. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:28 PM (#4273299)
Last I saw Romney was behind in Ohio. He need Ohio to win. That assumes he wins Florida and Virginia. That said, talking about polling is pretty boring, so I'll just read whatever you have to say in response and rethink my position in light of whatever facts you have and not actually respond.

That's true, I just think he doesn't need a "win" tonight to take Ohio. There are 3 weeks left, and another debate.

This format is always a tough one for Republicans.
   2429. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:30 PM (#4273307)
You know how many people got killed by guns in that TV show? Not a lot.


I still have zero desire to own a gun.

I'm honestly not certain I could shoot someone even in self-defense...
   2430. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:31 PM (#4273308)
This format is always a tough one for Republicans.


This format is talking to people about the things they care about. So that's not a good sign.
   2431. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:33 PM (#4273310)

This format is talking to people about the things they care about. So that's not a good sign.


The format is talking to a very specific subset of people who ask a certain type of questions.

The issue is that the debaters can't pin each other down, so you can make glib assertions, which Obama is very good at. Romney is not as glib, nor was McCain. Reagan would slaughter Obama; but that's true of any format.
   2432. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:34 PM (#4273314)
Just want to say --

I thought Obama stared Romney down on Libya... I'm not sure if Mitt just flubbed it or Obama did a pretty nice job dusting him back, but I think that was my favorite exchange.
   2433. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:35 PM (#4273315)
The format is talking to a very specific subset of people who ask a certain type of questions.


That doesn't refute what I said.
   2434. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:35 PM (#4273316)
Oh geez, the dumbest job interview question is the last question.
   2435. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:36 PM (#4273319)
My flaw is that I'm too good.
   2436. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:37 PM (#4273321)
I sometimes work too hard...
   2437. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:37 PM (#4273322)
Just want to say --

I thought Obama stared Romney down on Libya... I'm not sure if Mitt just flubbed it or Obama did a pretty nice job dusting him back, but I think that was my favorite exchange.


The President is the President and it's pretty hard for a candidate to not come off looking bad if he tries to get too feisty on a subject like this.
   2438. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:38 PM (#4273325)
47%
   2439. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:38 PM (#4273327)
Bammm...

The question went to Romney first, he should have just addressed it.
   2440. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:39 PM (#4273329)
That doesn't refute what I said.

No, but you tend to get a lot of questions that aren't the critical issues of the campaign. I mean, assault weapons bans?
   2441. UCCF Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:41 PM (#4273336)
So, fine -- I will cede the issue and solution to the right on this... Just give me some answer that doesn't have me feeling like the answer is either for me or for half the people around me to walking around like we've just wandered into Deadwood, because 'get a gun' just isn't something I have any interest in as a solution.

My father - who lives in a gated retirement community in Arkansas surrounded by old widows - has six handguns that he keeps loaded in his nightstand, for "protection". And woe be to anyone (re: me) who suggests that that might be a little insane to think someone would need 6 handguns to protect himself from an 80-year-old blue hair bearing a homemade apple pie.
   2442. The Ghost fouled out, but stays in the game Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:41 PM (#4273338)
And the wives have nearly identical outfits - same color, at least.
   2443. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:42 PM (#4273340)
Gee, I wonder what SNL will focus on this Saturday.
   2444. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4273341)
Obviously, I thought my partisan preference won... I would admit that there were just some bounces that went Obama's way, but I still think Obama would have squeaked by...

If Romney won relatively unexciting 27-10 game in debate one that just had one team out listless, I think this one was more fireworks, 35-31 Obama. Both guys just aired it out all game and Obama got a few better spots by the refs, which may have been the difference, may not have been.
   2445. Lassus Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:46 PM (#4273349)
I'm honestly not certain I could shoot someone even in self-defense...

I don't think I'll ever fire a gun in my life, but I do like to imagine that if I needed to, I could. (Emotionally, I mean; I would kind of need to take a class first, though.)
   2446. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4273350)
Gee, I wonder what SNL will focus on this Saturday.


The town hall format is great for SNL, because they can always rely on "Wacky person asks zany question" instead of wringing humor out of the actual candidates. It's how they get out of writing a monologue a lot of the time.
   2447. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:48 PM (#4273352)
Well, I've played violent video games, and according to the press that should mean the first time I get my hands on a gun, I'll be straight-shooting murdering machine with it!
   2448. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:48 PM (#4273353)
#2444 seriously underestimates Romney's margin in the 1st debate. It was the biggest margin of any televised Presidential debate. Ever. This was much closer, probably allowing each side to see what they want. Both candidates had their moments, not sure the needle will move immediately or that it will be possible to separate this debate's effect from the overall trend of the past 14 days. Time will tell.
   2449. DA Baracus is a "bloodthirsty fan of Atlanta." Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:48 PM (#4273354)
No, but you tend to get a lot of questions that aren't the critical issues of the campaign. I mean, assault weapons bans?


Just because you or I don't find something to be a critical issue doesn't mean it isn't to someone else.
   2450. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4273355)
#2444 seriously underestimates Romney's margin in the 1st debate.

Didn't Zonk call Debate #1 for Obama? Admitting even a small Romney win is a big admission for him.
   2451. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4273356)
My father - who lives in a gated retirement community in Arkansas surrounded by old widows - has six handguns that he keeps loaded in his nightstand, for "protection". And woe be to anyone (re: me) who suggests that that might be a little insane to think someone would need 6 handguns to protect himself from an 80-year-old blue hair bearing a homemade apple pie.


I won't even talk gun control with my dad... there was one memorable argument where it got so heated I asked "That thing's locked up and unloaded, right?" -- and I was probably only kidding 90%.

Like I said, I give up. It really bothers a couple friends of mine who lost a parent and grandmother to a handgun... Wasn't a criminal, wasn't even a deranged guy... bought the gun legal, simply 'snapped' because of a dispute that wasn't even personal -- just wrong professional place, wrong situation; then following, laid in wait, and assassinated them. I have no answers for them.
   2452. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:50 PM (#4273357)
I'm guessing SNL will talk about Libya and Romney's women speeches. Romney isn't going to come off well on Saturday.
   2453. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:52 PM (#4273361)
"Binder of women" is the easy play for the late-night writers.
   2454. Shredder Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4273363)
Reagan would slaughter Obama; but that's true of any format.
Especially if they held the debate on water, since Obama would have debate from a boat while St. Ronnie the Perfect would be able to walk around.
   2455. SteveF Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4273364)
Repeal the second amendment, then you can pass whatever gun control legislation you want.
   2456. Lassus Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:55 PM (#4273370)
#2444 seriously underestimates Romney's margin in the 1st debate. It was the biggest margin of any televised Presidential debate. Ever.

I know the poll that stated this makes the right squirm in their seats like they are watching really good porn, but it's just an oversell on an admitted Obama loss.
   2457. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:56 PM (#4273376)
CBS snap poll of undecided voters:

Obama 37, Romney 30, tie 33
   2458. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 10:58 PM (#4273380)

I don't think I'll ever fire a gun in my life, but I do like to imagine that if I needed to, I could. (Emotionally, I mean; I would kind of need to take a class first, though.)


I've fired a gun... I've even hunted... I have uncles that are honestly serious gun nuts -- I've fired all sorts of exotic weapons. Supposedly, they were 'legal' -- some automatic pins or something removed (don't ask me how hard it is to undo something like that).

In fact, when I was in Jr High -- we actually had a mandatory 'course', presented by the NRA, on gun safety. I will say, for the most part (there was a lot of stuff better relegated to history and/or civics class), it was mostly solid and perfectly good stuff.

Maybe that's one thing I'd ask the NRA crowd... Can we require everyone to take such a course -- it was probably a good 5 hours total -- before buying a gun? Hell, so long as the course is publicly approved, I'd even let the NRA design it.

Honestly, growing up in a rural area -- I get the importance some people place on guns, I really do... and honestly, I don't even know that if it were even possible, I'd sign on to repealing the 2nd amendment (I accept that the courts have spoken) -- but the whole idea that some of these things are so readily available and accessible to people who basically need nothing more than lacking a criminal record just scares me.

   2459. SteveF Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4273388)
That looks about right. Romney had moments when he wasn't really in touch with the average American voter. I don't know many people making <$100K who are going to be thrilled at the prospect of not paying taxes on their non-existent bank interest or other capital gains, for instance.
   2460. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:01 PM (#4273393)
I don't know many people making <$100K who are going to be thrilled at the prospect of not paying taxes on their non-existent bank interest or other capital gains, for instance.


I was thinking the same thing. I thought it was a shame that Obama didn't bring it up as some sort of masked tax cut for the wealthy.
   2461. Misirlou is on hiding to nowhere Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:04 PM (#4273401)
I don't know many people making <$100K who are going to be thrilled at the prospect of not paying taxes on their non-existent bank interest or other capital gains, for instance.


At least he's not trying to sell it like "Most everyone has an IRA or 401k, so most everyone has capital gains and thus will benefit."
   2462. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:05 PM (#4273403)
Same CBS poll mentioned in #2457:

Who won on the economy?

Romney 65, Obama 34
   2463. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:08 PM (#4273419)
Same CBS poll mentioned in #2457:

Who won on the economy?

Romney 65, Obama 34


Thing is, though -- they actually had pre- and post-debate numbers on the same sample and BEFORE the debate, Romney was winning on the economy 71-27.

In other words, a sample that went in believing Romney better on the economy by 71-27 prior to the debate shifted to 65-34 AFTER the debate.
   2464. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:09 PM (#4273423)
Obama won in the sense that he showed the passion and conviction he sorely lacked the first time. I doubt if he'll win too many converts, but for the first time since the DNC the Democratic base will be fired up, and that won't hurt the turnout. Romney proved once again that he's a forceful debater, but this time he wasn't up against an empty chair, thank God.

The other good development is that one by one those GOP state voter suppression schemes are being either thrown out by the courts or put off until next year for a decision.
   2465. Lassus Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:11 PM (#4273433)
Thing is, though -- they actually had pre- and post-debate numbers on the same sample and BEFORE the debate, Romney was winning on the economy 71-27. In other words, a sample that went in believing Romney better on the economy by 71-27 prior to the debate shifted to 65-34 AFTER the debate.

That's gonna leave a mark.
   2466. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:15 PM (#4273448)
Oh sure have the white guy play the black guy. Did he do it in blackface?
   2467. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:16 PM (#4273453)
That's gonna leave a mark.

How so? Preferring Romney's position on the economy isn't the same thing as saying Romney won in a debate on the economy. It's apples and oranges.

Meanwhile, Frank Luntz's focus group in Nevada saw Romney as the winner. One of the ladies looks like Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
   2468. Kiko Sakata Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:24 PM (#4273522)
Meanwhile, Frank Luntz's focus group in Nevada saw Romney as the winner.


My wife and I both saw this a classic debate where most peoples' view of who won is which guy they liked more before the debate. Which is a HUGE improvement for Obama over the first one, but isn't likely to move the dial much in either direction.
   2469. GregD Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:28 PM (#4273530)
Same here, Kiko. I thought Obama won but you don't get a lot of mileage by winning on points. Both sides fired up their bases and kept them activated and reasonably confident. Beyond that, you need the other guy to do poorly to make real headway, and neither Romney nor Obama did poorly. If Obama gets some momentum it's going to be mostly the seemingly inevitable push-pull of reversion to, if not the mean, at least some kind of close race.
   2470. zonk Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:28 PM (#4273538)
The 'Binders Full of Women' Tumblr is entertaining...
   2471. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:40 PM (#4273607)
CNN snap poll:

Obama 46, Romney 39

Not looking like a game-changer.

The Luntz focus group is back on. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is mad as hell at Obama. Ha ha.
   2472. GregD Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:44 PM (#4273618)
Gotta agree with Joe. Not a game changer. Romney's got to be kicking himself. He's going to come out of the debate still a 2-1 underdog in both Intrade and 538 and has watched one of his last chances to change the game pass by. He'll have the next debate and maybe some kind of engineered thing in the late October, and otherwise glide in as a small but solid underdog.
   2473. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:45 PM (#4273620)
so I made the right call in watching Detroit play with fire once again.
   2474. tshipman Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:46 PM (#4273621)
Well, you know Obama won the debate when Kehoskie and Yankee Clapper are loudly declaring it a tie.

I thought the exchange where Obama said to check the transcript and the Moderator corrected Romney on Libya was a huge win for Obama. It really dramatized Romney's core deceptions.

The issue is that the debaters can't pin each other down, so you can make glib assertions, which Obama is very good at. Romney is not as glib


Amazing. Amazing.

***

Kevin Drum has this concept called the "Hack Gap." I think it really applies here.


I'd also like to point out this gem from snapper:
Forcible rape is only up slightly (2771 vs. 2320) so, I'm not sure there was as much under-reporting as you think.


Notice the "Forcible" modifier there. Classy.
   2475. McCoy Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:49 PM (#4273624)
Well, back in the day if you were holding a glass of scotch in your hand while raping a woman it wasn't considered rape. Hell, James Bonds considered violence towards women as foreplay.
   2476. Lassus Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:51 PM (#4273625)
Upon explaining "self-deportation" to my GF ("Making illegal immigrants' lives so miserable, they leave on their own."): "Do they know what it's like where they came from? Who would that ever work on? The French?"
   2477. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 16, 2012 at 11:57 PM (#4273627)
Notice the "Forcible" modifier there. Classy.


I did notice, glad you said something. I meant to and didn't. Thanks for the debate talk (since I didn't watch - I get my debate news here and tomorrow morning reading my RSS feed.

And one final point on diversity, as great as I think it is, diversity training universally sucks. It is HR at its worst and is a miserable waste of time and sanity. That is all.
   2478. Lassus Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:00 AM (#4273631)
   2479. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:01 AM (#4273633)
Well, you know Obama won the debate when Kehoskie and Yankee Clapper are loudly declaring it a tie.

Or just more objective. Romney did fine; Obama got, at best, a tie - he may have needed more given how badly he did in the first debate.

An incumbent President running for re-election needs to do 3 things: (1) defend his record; (2) provide a vision for his second term; and (3) paint his opponent as an unacceptable alternative. The Obama campaign has had trouble with # 1 & 2, and have relied almost entirely on #3. It may not be enough, since Romney is looking reasonably Presidential in these encounters. Trash talk isn't going to win the election.
   2480. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:02 AM (#4273636)
I thought the exchange where Obama said to check the transcript and the Moderator corrected Romney on Libya was a huge win for Obama. It really dramatized Romney's core deceptions.

Except that Candy Crowley just admitted she was wrong and Romney was right.

Well, you know Obama won the debate when Kehoskie and Yankee Clapper are loudly declaring it a tie.

I haven't loudly declared it anything; I've simply posted a couple of the poll results, as I did for the last two.

I actually saw Obama as a very slight winner, mainly because — with Candy Crowley's help — he got away with a huge lie re: Benghazi. Romney beat him up a few times before and after, but Libya was a missed opportunity.

***
Gotta agree with Joe. Not a game changer.

Well, I don't see tonight as a game-changer in the sense that I still see Romney as the slight favorite.
   2481. GregD Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:07 AM (#4273641)
I do think Obama needs to deliver The Ask at some point where he articulates not his accomplishments or Romney's limitations (both of which he did reasonably well tonight) but asks people for their vote so that he can do X. The criticism that he didn't talk about the future, just the recent past, is both fair and unfair. Unfair in the sense that he gets a bunch of questions on the recent past since he has been president. And he has to answer those questions. Fair in the sense that people expect to be asked for their vote with a vision of the future. This probably wasn't the format for it, but it's something Obama needs to do. On one level, it's a ritual humiliation, which is valid and useful in a democracy. No one earns our vote; we own it and give it as we choose, foolishly or wisely. Other than that, I think Obama has checked off most of his to-do list for the week.
   2482. SteveF Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:08 AM (#4273642)
Except that Candy Crowley just admitted she was wrong and Romney was right.


Huh. This is actually true. She'll probably never be allowed to moderate another debate.
   2483. tshipman Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:09 AM (#4273644)
Except that Candy Crowley just admitted she was wrong and Romney was right.
...
I actually saw Obama as a very slight winner, mainly because — with Candy Crowley's help — he got away with a huge lie re: Benghazi. Romney beat him up a few times before and after, but Libya was a missed opportunity.


Full transcript of Obama's Rose Garden speech.

No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done
   2484. SteveF Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:12 AM (#4273646)
The issue at hand is whether the attacks in Benghazi themselves were referred to as acts of terror within 14 days. That last sentence doesn't do that. So Crowley was simply factually wrong in correcting Romney.
   2485. tshipman Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:16 AM (#4273649)
The issue at hand is whether the attacks in Benghazi themselves were referred to as acts of terror within 14 days. That last sentence doesn't do that. So Crowley was simply factually wrong in correcting Romney.


"No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation."

Also in that speech:
The United States condemns in the strongest terms this outrageous and shocking attack.

But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts.


Come on now.
   2486. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:18 AM (#4273652)
That's embarrassing, Shipman. You should use the "edit" button before the clock runs out. Very weak sauce.

Obama went to the United Nations and mentioned the YouTube video six times.
   2487. SteveF Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:21 AM (#4273653)
Come on now, yourself. He doesn't call the attacks on Benghazi a terrorist attack.

The criticism itself is idiotic. How could he be expected to know one way or the other so early on? (Rose Garden speech was what? 24 hours later?) But Crowley can't insert herself and correct Romney in a way that's unsupported by the facts. It's up to Obama to make the counters. It's not the moderators job.
   2488. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:22 AM (#4273654)
And, of course, for days after the Rose Garden remarks, Obama Administration officials continued to suggest that the attack on the consulate was the result of a demonstration that got out of hand. That simply wasn't true, and was known to be untrue.
   2489. tshipman Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:23 AM (#4273656)
What did Obama say in the Rose Garden?

Romney said it took him two weeks to refer to it as an act of terror. Check the transcript. Mr. Romney was incorrect, and he was called on it.

edit:
Come on now, yourself. He doesn't call the attacks on Benghazi a terrorist attack.


What? he refers to it as an outrageous and shocking attack, senseless violence, a terrible act, and in a clear rhetorical move, addresses it along with other terrorist attacks.

He clearly refers to it as an act of terror. Which, by the way, is the exact phrase Romney used. Romney said that it took Obama two weeks to refer to it as an act of terror. He did so the next day. The moderator is right to point out clearly untrue statements.
   2490. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:26 AM (#4273658)
Romney said it took him two weeks to refer to it as an act of terror. Check the transcript. Mr. Romney was incorrect, and he was called on it.

Nonsense. If Obama thought it was terrorism, why did it take him until the tenth paragraph of a 13-paragraph speech to use the word "terror," and why did he use the word only once and in such a non-specific way?

Even tonight, he referred to the attack as a "crime."
   2491. SteveF Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:28 AM (#4273661)
Check the transcript. Mr. Romney was incorrect, and he was called on it.


He never called what happened in Benghazi an act of terror. He simply states that 'acts of terror won't shake the resolve,' which is not the same thing. I just don't see it the way you are seeing it, especially in light of Obama's words and actions in the ensuing weeks.

Mind you, I don't think it's an especially relevant critique. I'm not sure I'd want the President jumping to the conclusion so quickly, without sufficient evidence, that the attack was an act of terror. But Crowley was off base in correcting Romney in the manner she did.
   2492. tshipman Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:37 AM (#4273667)
Nonsense. If Obama thought it was terrorism, why did it take him until the tenth paragraph of a 13-paragraph speech to use the word "terror," and why did he use the word only once and in such a non-specific way?


Textual criticism by numbers! I must have missed that class in comparative literature. Another way to put "13 paragraph" is 800 words, because that's what it actually was.

Graph 1: Sometimes Americans abroad face great danger.
Graph 2: Four Americans died, including an Ambassador.
Graph 3: The United States condemns in the strongest terms this outrageous and shocking attack
Graph 4: Nod to respect of all religions. Pivot to: But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts.
Graph 5: Libyans are our allies.
Graph 6: Biography on Ambassador.
Graph 7: Context for what he was working for.
Graph 8: 9/11 sure sucked.
Graph 9: Appeal to sacrifice.
Graph 10: No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation
Graph 11: America! F-Yeah
Graph 12: Closing
Graph 13: Boilerplate

Obama condemns the attacks in the strongest terms in graph 3. He refers back to the attacks in similar strong language the next graph, explicitly referring to it along with 9/11 in Graph 10. He actually ties the embassy attack to 9/11 rhetorically.
   2493. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:41 AM (#4273669)
Obama condemns the attacks in the strongest terms in graph 3.

Condemning it in the "strongest terms" would have been calling it a terrorist attack, rather than a "shocking attack" or "senseless violence."

"Shocking attacks" and "senseless violence" are what occur every day in Obama's old Chicago neighborhoods. Benghazi was a terrorist attack, and it should have been explicitly labeled as such in the first sentence.

This was a presidential speech in the Rose Garden written by professional speechwriters, not some 7th grader who mistakenly buried the lede. If Obama wanted to specifically label Benghazi a terrorist attack, he would have done so in the first sentence.
   2494. tshipman Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:46 AM (#4273672)
Now I am even more confident that Obama won the debate and Romney's Benghazi attack hurt him badly.
   2495. Guapo Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:48 AM (#4273673)
And then Obama made this speech two days later in Colorado:

Let me say at the outset that obviously our hearts are heavy this week -- we had a tough day a couple of days ago, for four Americans were killed in an attack on our diplomatic post in Libya. Yesterday I had a chance to go over to the State Department to talk to friends and colleagues of those who were killed. And these were Americans who, like so many others, both in uniform and civilians, who serve in difficult and dangerous places all around the world to advance the interests and the values that we hold dear as Americans.

And a lot of times their work goes unheralded, doesn’t get a lot of attention, but it is vitally important. We enjoy our security and our liberty because of the sacrifices that they make. And they do an outstanding job every single day without a lot of fanfare. (Applause.)

So what I want all of you to know is that we are going to bring those who killed our fellow Americans to justice. (Applause.) I want people around the world to hear me: To all those who would do us harm, no act of terror will go unpunished. It will not dim the light of the values that we proudly present to the rest of the world. No act of violence shakes the resolve of the United States of America. (Applause.)
   2496. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:50 AM (#4273678)
Now I am even more confident that Obama won the debate and Romney's Benghazi attack hurt him badly.

Yeah, having the moderator admit she was wrong and Romney was right is really going to hurt Romney.

It does Obama absolutely no good for people to be talking about Libya tomorrow. If that's what happens, tonight was little more than a Pyrrhic victory.
   2497. Steve Treder Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:52 AM (#4273680)
I hope Joe doesn't get too dizzy.
   2498. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:58 AM (#4273681)
Condemning it in the "strongest terms" would have been calling it a terrorist attack, rather than a "shocking attack" or "senseless violence."


This is the dumbest Gotcha. And to be clear, I mean both Romney's "You didn't call it a terrorist attack soon enough!" and Obama's "Did too!" Who cares? What possible difference does it make whether he said the magic words? Don't either of these guys have something substantial to talk about?
   2499. GregD Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:03 AM (#4273684)
I agree, Monty. Which just makes it stranger that Romney was so intent on focusing upon it. Obama's first answer about taking responsibility was like his highest-scoring response to that part of the debate, as it gave him a chance to look big without actually saying anything. And then Romney started doubling down, when he had other substantive points he could have made.
   2500. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: October 17, 2012 at 01:05 AM (#4273685)
agree with Monty. To the extent there are 'undecided voters', this is BORING. It as almost nearly as dumb as all of the hot air over Scooter Libby. The context or word choice in comments made in the f Rose Garden is not a story, no matter which version you run with. Libya is a story, and the canyon between the WH's two weeks of statements re: the attack, and what actually happened is a story. Who said, didn't say the word 'terror' in any context in the Rose Garden, isn't.

Romney botched it. Crowley too.
Page 25 of 62 pages ‹ First  < 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogMike Trout And Bryce Harper Are Baseball’s Best Young Position-Player Duo Ever
(13 - 4:56pm, Apr 23)
Last: Manny Coon

NewsblogOTP April 2014: BurstNET Sued for Not Making Equipment Lease Payments
(2278 - 4:54pm, Apr 23)
Last: Publius Publicola

NewsblogJosh Lueke Is A Rapist, You Say? Keep Saying It.
(132 - 4:53pm, Apr 23)
Last: vivaelpujols

NewsblogMLB takes a swing at the video game business
(17 - 4:50pm, Apr 23)
Last: Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat

NewsblogThe Five “Acts” of Ike Davis’s Career, and Why Trading Ike Was a Mistake
(41 - 4:48pm, Apr 23)
Last: Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein

NewsblogOMNICHATTER for 4/23/2014
(70 - 4:48pm, Apr 23)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogDoyel: How was Gerrit Cole not suspended? He basically started the brawl
(2 - 4:45pm, Apr 23)
Last: Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016

NewsblogOT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2014
(492 - 4:44pm, Apr 23)
Last: NJ in DC (Now unemployed!)

Newsblog4 balls, you’re out!
(42 - 4:44pm, Apr 23)
Last: Misirlou is on hiding to nowhere

NewsblogThe rise and fall of Ike Davis' New York Mets | Capital New York
(24 - 4:44pm, Apr 23)
Last: billyshears

NewsblogTwo Brewers, two Pirates suspended for fracas | MLB.com: News
(17 - 4:33pm, Apr 23)
Last: Sunday silence

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 4-23-2014
(7 - 4:29pm, Apr 23)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogOT: The NHL is finally back thread, part 2
(196 - 4:15pm, Apr 23)
Last: Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits

NewsblogMatt Harvey of New York Mets deletes Twitter account after controversial tweet
(17 - 4:09pm, Apr 23)
Last: dr. scott

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread March, 2014
(1063 - 3:12pm, Apr 23)
Last: Darkness and the howling fantods

Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats

 

 

 

 

Page rendered in 0.9781 seconds
54 querie(s) executed