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Tuesday, October 02, 2012

OTP: October 2012-THE RACE: As Candidates Prep, Attention in DC split between politics and baseball

While President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney bone up in Nevada and Colorado for Wednesday’s opening debate, back in the nation’s capital attention is split between the hard-fought presidential race and baseball playoffs.

The Nationals won the first division baseball championship for a Washington team since 1933 by clinching the National League East race Monday night.

Washington, D.C., has the only ballpark where so many Cabinet members, politicians and other luminaries routinely gather and where fans now are openly rooting for a particular president — one who served more than a century ago, Theodore Roosevelt.

“Let Teddy Win” banners and buttons are everywhere. Fans like 2008 GOP presidential nominee Sen. John McCain of Arizona say it’s time for Roosevelt’s 500-plus losing streak to end.

[...]

“Teddy, you are the victim of a vast left-wing conspiracy by the commie pinko libs in this town,” McCain said in a video played in the stadium Monday night. “But you can overcome that.”

The October 2012 “OT: Politics” thread starts ... now.

Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 02, 2012 at 02:14 PM | 6119 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nationals, politics

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   2901. bobm Posted: October 18, 2012 at 11:51 AM (#4275257)
"Obama's just like every other politician; he's terrible!"

"Obama's not like other politicians; he's terrible!"


There's style and there's effectiveness. His cult of personality did not break through partisan gridlock, whether by failing to create a popular groundswell or not winning over legislators. Then Obama seems to have had little inclination or ability for relationship building or deal-making with legislators, even with members of his own party, whether it's Pelosi putting him on mute, the absence of local politicians sharing the campaign stage with him, or the Democratic congressman who complained that of the two times he rode Air Force One, one was with W.


   2902. Greg K Posted: October 18, 2012 at 11:51 AM (#4275258)
The Klosterman thing on immersion criticism is interesting but how exactly can we separate insane obsession from productive obsession, the guy who babbles to himself about Ulysses and the prof in his office rereading it for the hundredth time. The difference, I used to think, was in social interaction; no matter how eccentric scholars are, you have to put your work into a social community that responds to it. But, honestly, lots of private obsessives do the same; they just put it into different communities. I get that there's a difference--I am a productive obsessive, and not the least of it is that I get a check for my obsessions, which makes them somewhat rational--but the difference is hard to pin down.

This seems particularly relevant to me as my proposal for an article in an upcoming "Popular History and Game of Thrones" book got rejected for being "while interesting, too esoteric and academic for this particular project". This has given me pause and brought me to think about my life priorities...though of course I'm continuing with my 98th re-read and writing the article anyway for my own benefit.
   2903. Steve Treder Posted: October 18, 2012 at 11:51 AM (#4275259)
flip
   2904. Steve Treder Posted: October 18, 2012 at 11:52 AM (#4275260)
I'm comfortably above the 95th percentile in intelligence

Great, but how big is your d!ck?
   2905. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 18, 2012 at 11:56 AM (#4275265)
There's style and there's effectiveness.


I have never seen a politician with as different views on their effectiveness as with Obama. It is like there is a stealth field around the Obama administration accomplishments. I think it is based on (among other things) lofty (unrealistic) initial expectations and a crappy economy, leading many to believe accomplishments = 0 or something.
   2906. CrosbyBird Posted: October 18, 2012 at 11:56 AM (#4275267)
But people who vote for a third party because they judge the chance of eventual third-party success differently than I do, and are therefore willing to bear their share of the responsibility of electing their least-preferred major party (whichever that is), I have full respect for that. It isn't my judgment, but it's a judgment.

What about people who vote for a third-party candidate knowing that it won't matter for this election, but in the hopes that increasing the number of voters that refuse to select either mainstream candidate may have a positive effect for the future? Even if it's unlikely that a third party can ever really break into the current political system, evidence that there's a large and increasing pool of dissatisfied voters might shift policy for one or both of the current two parties.

There are certainly differences between Democrats and Republicans, but they are essentially two wings of one party these days: pro-business, statist, and far to the right of center when compared to other first-world governments. That isn't to say that the differences don't matter at all (and certainly, given only the choice between the two, I have a very clear favorite), but it is to say that there are fundamental issues where the two parties simply manifest the same general philosophy in different ways.

Neither party is close to embracing the idea that government has no business interfering with individual decisions that impact only the self or other consenting adults. To me, that's a fundamental problem that is the source of many of the issues I might take with either party. Choosing between Democrat and Republican is addressing the symptom, not the problem.
   2907. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 11:58 AM (#4275271)
I am not sure there is a difference other than outcome based. If, after everything is done, a productive outcome or advancement happens it was productive obsession, else it was insane obsession. Many sceintific breakthroughs have come from insane obsession that ended up productive.


The difference between these guys going on and on about the deep symbolism in the sets of Kubrick films and a standard-fare art history prof going on and on about the deep symbolism in Renaissance paintings is nothing more than time and distance from the work of art. These guys are just doing the same symbology scans on films (visual mediums) that have historically be applied academically to paintings (visual medium.)

That said, I think they're all crazy. Some of them are just crazy wrapped up on a fuzzy blanket of acceptability. The others are obsessed with Apollo 11.
   2908. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:00 PM (#4275273)
I know nothing about the specific example you seem to be talking about. Seriously nothing.


Exactly. And you follow politics, and I presume you try to keep up on current events, and despite that, you've never heard of this case. IMO, that's evidence that it has been actively suppressed.

As for the Ulsterman report, did I say I believed every word of it? I used the words "purportedly" and "alleged" and said "many of the topics discussed eventually either come to light or come to pass. Some of course do not."

This was the first source I ever encountered that discussed Eric Holder's complicity in the Fast and Furious scandal (which somehow, never seemed to bother much of the American public). It may not have been the first source to break the news, but since I read about it there before it came about anywhere else, I gave it some credibility. I feel it is a much greater fault to be overly open-minded than overly close-minded.
   2909. robinred Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:00 PM (#4275277)
There was an anecdote in a pro-Obama piece that I read late in the 2008 campaign that has stuck in my head, and supports what people are saying. The campaign team pulled into a hotel in a big city around 9 pm, and the hotel was very near a local field office. The guy running said office, a vet pol operative type, got a message through to the inner circle, asking if Obama could stop by for five minutes--said it would mean the world to the grunts/college kids et al who were working the phones, etc.

Someone like Plouffe or Axelrod, who had Obama's ear, asked him about it, and said that Obama gave it some thought for a couple of minutes, but ultimately said no. Wanted to get his workout in in the hotel gym and to call Michelle and the girls, was tired of shaking hands, etc.

The operative, who had also worked for Clinton, said, as you would expect, that Clinton was 100% the opposite. The guy LOVED visiting the field offices, particularly when it was a surprise, and would often stay far longer than the plan called for, sitting down with some volunteer chained to a desk and talking to him or her one-on-one for a couple of minutes. The operative made a wry joke about it to the effect that Clinton was (as you would also expect) often scoping out the women at the field office, but emphasized that it was a real thing--that Clinton loved politics, loved talking to people, loved the feedback and interaction.
   2910. The Good Face Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4275279)
I have never seen a politician with as different views on their effectiveness as with Obama. It is like there is a stealth field around the Obama administration accomplishments. I think it is based on (among other things) lofty (unrealistic) initial expectations and a crappy economy, leading many to believe accomplishments = 0 or something.


Because a sizable chunk of the country thinks the things he accomplished are terrible.
   2911. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4275280)
Great, but how big is your d!ck?


Big enough, or so I'm told.
   2912. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4275281)
There's style and there's effectiveness. His cult of personality did not break through partisan gridlock, whether by failing to create a popular groundswell or not winning over legislators.


"Obama thinks he's the Messiah; he's terrible!"

"Obama wasn't the Messiah; he's terrible!"
   2913. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:05 PM (#4275285)
There are certainly differences between Democrats and Republicans, but they are essentially two wings of one party these days: pro-business, statist, and far to the right of center when compared to other first-world governments.

Reading that, it's kind of hard to figure out the source of your complaint. Is the problem that we're too statist, or too far to the right?

Actually now that I remember it, you're not necessarily opposed to a single payer health care system, but from the POV of its opponents that's about as statist a position as one can have. Which brings me back to my question above.

I'll let pass the "two wings of one party" bit, which shows that either you're a bit crazy or that 95% of the rest of the country is. But that's already been rehashed over and over upthread and there's no point in doing it once again.
   2914. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4275286)
Because a sizable chunk of the country thinks the things he accomplished are terrible.


A sizable chunk also think he's Kenyan. Another sizable chunk think climatology is a liberal conspiracy to suck money into nefarious science department fundings while secretly undermining God and capitalism.

A sizable chunk of people are nut-jarringly stupid.
   2915. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4275287)
Turns out the college kid who asked the candidates about job prospects after graduation was an exercise-science major. Kid, there's your problem right there.
   2916. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4275289)
"Obama thinks he's the Messiah; he's terrible!"

"Obama wasn't the Messiah; he's terrible!"


That's pretty much it in a nutter's nutshell. The only consistency is the line that "he's terrible".
   2917. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4275292)
Someone like Plouffe or Axelrod, who had Obama's ear, asked him about it, and said that Obama gave it some thought for a couple of minutes, but ultimately said no. Wanted to get his workout in in the hotel gym and to call Michelle and the girls, was tired of shaking hands, etc.

The operative, who had also worked for Clinton, said, as you would expect, that Clinton was 100% the opposite. The guy LOVED visiting the field offices, particularly when it was a surprise, and would often stay far longer than the plan called for, sitting down with some volunteer chained to a desk and talking to him or her one-on-one for a couple of minutes. The operative made a wry joke about it to the effect that Clinton was (as you would also expect) often scoping out the women at the field office, but emphasized that it was a real thing--that Clinton loved politics, loved talking to people, loved the feedback and interaction.


So, the critique here is that Barack Obama loves his wife and kids too much?
   2918. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:09 PM (#4275294)
Turns out the college kid who asked the candidates about job prospects after graduation was an exercise-science major. Kid, there's your problem right there.

I refuse to believe that without a legitimate citation, mainly because it's almost too sublime to be true.
   2919. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:09 PM (#4275295)
Turns out the college kid who asked the candidates about job prospects after graduation was an exercise-science major.


Massage therapy and rehab therapy is a growth industry, actually.

EDIT: As is personal training. (Perhaps not all "jobs" should be "created" for Wall Street types.)
   2920. The Good Face Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4275299)
A sizable chunk of people are nut-jarringly stupid.


I know. They voted Obama into the Presidency.
   2921. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4275300)
There's style and there's effectiveness. His cult of personality did not break through partisan gridlock, whether by failing to create a popular groundswell or not winning over legislators. Then Obama seems to have had little inclination or ability for relationship building or deal-making with legislators, even with members of his own party, whether it's Pelosi putting him on mute, the absence of local politicians sharing the campaign stage with him, or the Democratic congressman who complained that of the two times he rode Air Force One, one was with W.

The problem with Obama is that he has no base and thus has no real power over Congress. He's a lightning bolt that rocketed out of Illinois by force of personality but he wasn't a party magnet in the election so he has no real power to influence other Dems or Reps.
   2922. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4275301)
So, the critique here is that Barack Obama loves his wife and kids too much?

Well, yeah. He isn't a mechanic, he's the President.
   2923. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4275302)
I know. They voted Obama into the Presidency.


We all regret our lack of John McCain and extending all of the Bush/Cheney policies indefinitely, certainly.
   2924. robinred Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4275306)
So, the critique here is that Barack Obama loves his wife and kids too much?


No critique at all, hoss. I think it just shows that Obama is basically a staid, self-disciplined family man, with the temperament of a college prof.
   2925. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4275308)
Massage therapy and rehab therapy is a growth industry, actually.

EDIT: As is personal training. (Perhaps not all "jobs" should be "created" for Wall Street types.)



Well, you don't really need to go 100+ grand in debt to rub a thigh and tell someone to do another situp. I'd also assume that entry level jobs don't really pay well and there are a ton of people trying to break through the ceiling to get to the few high paying jobs.

My cousin owns a crossfit gym now and she was a Poli-Sci major at Penn St.
   2926. Jay Z Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4275310)
I know I saw it. An interesting article in Slate last week concluded that Obama is an introvert which causes him difficulting in some aspects of the political arena. I think I agree. From what I can see, it is work for him to do certain political acts (working a room, glad handing, etc.). Those activities don't energize him, like they seem to do for other politicians. Not sure that disqualifies him for the presidency, but YMMV.


How about Romney in this regard? Of course, his main constituency is other millionaires, and how many millionaires do you have in one room at any time?
   2927. Morty Causa Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4275314)


Because a sizable chunk of the country thinks the things he accomplished are terrible.


This applies to any candidate. Whoever loses this election is still going to get 50 million votes. You might, though, consider the quality of the thinking.
   2928. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:18 PM (#4275317)
Well, yeah. He isn't a mechanic, he's the President.


So, if I get this right, the biggest problem in American politics is that our pols are disengaged from real Americans and live in a bubble of plutocratic detachment, thinking of citizens not so much as people but as votes to be aggregated into a power-wielding coalition at any costs; and the problem with the current POTUS is that he is too normal and loves his family more than he loves glad-handing and working power-wielding coalition building.

Ummm... Okay.
   2929. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4275320)
We all regret our lack of John McCain and extending all of the Bush/Cheney policies indefinitely, certainly.

OTOH there's nothing stopping our American neocons from joining the IDF and playing Major Kong on the Iranians.
   2930. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4275323)
Flip-flopping only after a "sea change" removes the possibility of political repercussions is the exact opposite of "leadership."


A list of a few of the things Obama has done for GLBT rights during his time as president: Link.
   2931. zonk Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4275327)
So, the critique here is that Barack Obama loves his wife and kids too much?

Well, yeah. He isn't a mechanic, he's the President.


Heh...

John Edwards just formed his 2016 exploratory committee...

EDIT: And Newt Gingrich wants to know if the GOP ballot is truly set in stone.
   2932. The Good Face Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4275329)
Well, you don't really need to go 100+ grand in debt to rub a thigh and tell someone to do another situp. I'd also assume that entry level jobs don't really pay well and there are a ton of people trying to break through the ceiling to get to the few high paying jobs.


The physical therapists I know make very good money. Getting the degrees necessary to work as a physical therapist seems like a way better investment than, say, law school.
   2933. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4275331)
No critique at all, hoss. I think it just shows that Obama is basically a staid, self-disciplined family man, with the temperament of a college prof.


It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."

"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"

"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."

"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."

"I did," said Ford. "It is."

"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"

"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."

"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"

"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"

"What?"

"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"

"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."

Ford shrugged again.

"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happenned to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."

"But that's terrible," said Arthur.

"Listen, bud," said Ford, "if I had one Altairian dollar for every time I heard one bit of the Universe look at another bit of the Universe and say 'That's terrible' I wouldn't be sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.”
   2934. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4275332)

Thanks to Citizens United, employers can legally tell their employees who they think they should vote for. Mitt Romney wants small business owners to do just that this November.

"I hope you make it very clear to your employees what you believe is in the best interest of your enterprise and therefore their job and their future in the upcoming elections," the GOP hopeful told a group of small business owners this summer on a conference call organized by the conservative-leaning National Federation of Independent Businesses.

"And whether you agree with me or you agree with President Obama, or whatever your political view, I hope—I hope you pass those along to your employees," he continued at the tail end of a call during which he attacked the president as anti-business. "Nothing illegal about you talking to your employees about what you believe is best for the business, because I think that will figure into their election decision, their voting decision and of course doing that with your family and your kids as well."


Link
   2935. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4275333)
Further to #2906. Keep living in denial Andy (and most of the rest of you).

Is the Guardian a credible enough source? I wouldn't want to submit anymore links that haven't been approved by the Ministry of Truth.

The lame rules for presidential debates: a perfect microcosm of US democracy Secret collusion between the two parties, funded by corporations, run by lobbyists: all the ingredients are there

....the two political parties in the 1990s joined forces to wrest control over the presidential debates away from the independent League of Women Voters, which had long resisted the parties' efforts to shield their presidential candidates from genuine surprise or challenge. Now run by the party-controlled Commission on Presidential Debates, these rituals are designed to do little more than " eliminate spontaneity" and "exclude all viable third-party voices". Citing a just-leaked 21-page "memorandum of understanding" secretly negotiated by the two campaigns to govern the rules of the debates.

***********

Here then, within this one process of structuring the presidential debates, we have every active ingredient that typically defines, and degrades, US democracy. The two parties collude in secret. The have the same interests and goals. Everything is done to ensure that the political process is completely scripted and devoid of any spontaneity or reality.

All views that reside outside the narrow confines of the two parties are rigidly excluded. Anyone who might challenge or subvert the two-party duopoly is rendered invisible.

   2936. Morty Causa Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4275335)
So, the critique here is that Barack Obama loves his wife and kids too much?


Yes, that is true. No one would put it that way, but it's apparently true. He has a different set of priorities from most pols. He is not Clinton or Tip O'Neil. We often criticize politicians for being whores. Obama is not a whore. But whores serve a purpose, have a function. I find that about Obama both thrilling and dismaying. It's like at some psychic level he's drawn line that he won't cross over. He'll play the game, but only a certain way and to a certain extent. It's the source of his power, and his power of attraction, and his Achilles Heel. But you might reconsider a criticism of someone, finding someone deficient in a way, if the criticism and the deficiency is lament about that which you don't respect to begin with.
   2937. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:25 PM (#4275337)
So, if I get this right, the biggest problem in American politics is that our pols are disengaged from real Americans and live in a bubble of plutocratic detachment, thinking of citizens not so much as people but as votes to be aggregated into a power-wielding coalition at any costs; and the problem with the current POTUS is that he is too normal and loves his family more than he loves glad-handing and working power-wielding coalition building.

Ummm... Okay.


Well, no. The biggest problem with Obama is that he doesn't do what most politicians do thus he has no power base and thus can't set a clear agenda and have his vision become reality.

I don't give a fig about a politician's private life. I don't care who he is sleeping with or what he loves the most. I care about how he is going to do his job and how well he can do it.
   2938. GregD Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:25 PM (#4275338)
What about people who vote for a third-party candidate knowing that it won't matter for this election, but in the hopes that increasing the number of voters that refuse to select either mainstream candidate may have a positive effect for the future? Even if it's unlikely that a third party can ever really break into the current political system, evidence that there's a large and increasing pool of dissatisfied voters might shift policy for one or both of the current two parties.

There are certainly differences between Democrats and Republicans, but they are essentially two wings of one party these days: pro-business, statist, and far to the right of center when compared to other first-world governments. That isn't to say that the differences don't matter at all (and certainly, given only the choice between the two, I have a very clear favorite), but it is to say that there are fundamental issues where the two parties simply manifest the same general philosophy in different ways.

Neither party is close to embracing the idea that government has no business interfering with individual decisions that impact only the self or other consenting adults. To me, that's a fundamental problem that is the source of many of the issues I might take with either party. Choosing between Democrat and Republican is addressing the symptom, not the problem.
My own take is different than yours, obviously, as is my judgment of the likelihood of future success, but my judgment of the future is obviously weak (who thought the Whigs would collapse before 1850) and my own preferences are subjective. So, to me, your position is fair enough if you're willing to take responsibility for the fact that such a vote makes you culpable for the chance your least-favorite party will win and do marginally worse things. Just as I have to bear responsibility that my vote for the Democrats makes it more difficult to build a third party that might conform more closely to my wishes. My critique is with blamelessness or purity, forms of anti-politics. But once you enter into responsibility, I think there's a moral case for making any of the choices, and not--in our system--a strong moral case for refusing to make a choice. (I'd feel differently about systems of one-party voting, of course.)
   2939. GregD Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:30 PM (#4275344)
Bitter Mouse, I also can't escape the outcomes based judgment of productive vs insane obsessions, but even that is tricky. If a Joyce scholars walks the line right, he or she can get tenure and promotions, but a crazed Joyce fanatic might also get good outcomes among other fanatics, writing decoding books. And that's not even to get into the line between scholarly and purely personal obsession with something like Game of Thrones, as Greg (UK) says. I'm not a relativist, and I know why I like scholarly obsessions more than purely personal ones, but I don't know that I can explain exactly how to identify them. I'd love to read Gary Fine or someone doing a study of a Joyce scholar and a Joyce fan, the way they work, the audiences they find.
   2940. JL Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:31 PM (#4275346)
So, if I get this right, the biggest problem in American politics is that our pols are disengaged from real Americans and live in a bubble of plutocratic detachment, thinking of citizens not so much as people but as votes to be aggregated into a power-wielding coalition at any costs; and the problem with the current POTUS is that he is too normal and loves his family more than he loves glad-handing and working power-wielding coalition building.

Ummm... Okay.


I don't know if it is a problem, but it is a weakness for a politician. Getting to the presidency involves sacrifice. It means getting others to help you and showing that appreciation. I don't doubt that Obama appreciated those volunteers helping him, but his internal introvertedness stops him from showing it more in person. Besides, if we want our politicians to meet and interact with the masses, isn't this exactly the type of meeting we want them to have where he gets a chance to talk with the grunts on the ground?

I don't see it is a problem or personal failing on Obama's part. But it is a weakness in his quest to get re-elected.
   2941. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:32 PM (#4275348)
The physical therapists I know make very good money. Getting the degrees necessary to work as a physical therapist seems like a way better investment than, say, law school.

Almost no one becomes a physical therapist after just 4 years of college. The likely route who be do to do your 4 years of college and then try to find a PT assistant job while attending further schooling which is another 3 to 4 years of schooling. So after all of that most people will be well north of 100,000 dollars in debt and have a job that pays about 50k a year at entry level and averages about 75,00 year for the entire field.
   2942. bobm Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:34 PM (#4275349)
From The New Yorker, August 2012:

The planning for the fund-raisers seemed to underline this estrangement. Obama’s first event was a 6 P.M. dinner at the Four Seasons. About forty contributors, many of them from Wall Street, had paid thirty thousand dollars each to dine with him. Some of the invitees were disgruntled supporters who felt unfairly blamed for the country’s economic problems, and they wanted to vent about what they considered Obama’s anti-business tone. But the President did not have enough time to hear them out—or even share a meal—because after only an hour he was scheduled to leave for the second fund-raiser, at the downtown home of Anna Wintour, the editor of Vogue. At the Four Seasons, the President could spend about seven minutes per table, each of which accommodated eight donors. This was fund-raising as speed-dating.

The President’s staff knew that Obama wouldn’t have a moment to eat properly that day, and that it would be hard for him to do so while being the focus of attention at the fund-raisers. So time was set aside at the Four Seasons for Obama to grab a bite, in a “ready room,” with Reggie Love, his personal aide, and Valerie Jarrett, his close friend, senior adviser, and liaison to the business community. This arrangement, however, inadvertently left the impression that Obama preferred his staff’s company to that of the paying guests.

“Obama is very meticulous—they have clockwork timing,” one of the attendees says. “After a few minutes at each table, a staffer would come and tap him on the shoulder, and he’d get up. But when people pay thirty thousand they want to talk to you, and take a picture with you. He was trying to be fair, and that’s great, but every time he started to have a real conversation he got tapped.”

The attendee appreciates that such events must get tiresome for Obama. “Each person, at each table, says to the President, ‘Here’s what you have to do . . .’ At the next table, it’s the same.” Even so, he noted that Bill Clinton—who set the gold standard for the art form known as “donor maintenance”—would have presided over the same event with more enthusiasm: “He would have stayed an extra hour.” After that Four Seasons dinner, the attendee adds, “people were a little mad.”


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDUQFjAA&url=http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/08/27/120827fa_fact_mayer&ei=0imAUOjkDKW90QGpxIDYBQ&usg=AFQjCNEikSNjs4_TXKkRr3h0qvuUcfo_jg&sig2=szUDfkP_jq08r3mG6yTJFQ
   2943. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:35 PM (#4275350)
FIX IT!
   2944. Morty Causa Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:36 PM (#4275351)
The two parties are similar of course. They also diverge substantially, especially when it comes to social views and about playing the game. As I've said. What corresponds with the Democrats corresponds to the anti-science mentality of the Republicans? Where's the joint resolution directing a court to change its decision?

But, even if the parties are essentially alike, why is that bad? A proliferation of third parties is not conducive to stability, and stability matters. It may matter more than anything else. Moreover, if those parties incoporate dissenting views and worldviews, what's the difference? Third, third parties, although not at the top of the hierarchy have always been aroudn and serve a purpose. Why is the standard that there should be more parties? The problem is that in our system no one gets elected president unless he can bring various and, at certain points, widely diverging interests together. There can be no purity when it comes to this. If that is a problem.
   2945. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:38 PM (#4275353)
“He would have stayed an extra hour.” After that Four Seasons dinner, the attendee adds, “people were a little mad.”


"Mommy, the teacher didn't make me feel special today! I haz a sad."
   2946. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:39 PM (#4275357)
But, even the parties are essentially alike, why is that bad? A proliferation of third parties is not conducive to stability, and stability matters. It may matter more than anything else.


Stability certainly matters. So you're against the US overthrow of Gadhaffi after 40 years of stable rule in Libya, I take it. Now its run by Islamists.
   2947. Morty Causa Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4275358)
Yeah, you can take it. You want to know what you can do with it?
   2948. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:42 PM (#4275359)
Maybe they've been done to death before on BBTF, but I do find it odd how I can mention a US judge passing an injunction against the NDAA and the Atty. General being complicit in a program to supply US arms to Mexican drug lords and just get yawns.
   2949. JL Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4275360)
"Mommy, the teacher didn't make me feel special today! I haz a sad."

Its the golden rule - He (or she) who has the gold makes the rule.

Does not matter if they are whining or not, if you want their money you have to make it worth their while. If you don't, they stop giving. That's life.
   2950. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:46 PM (#4275362)
Yeah, you can take it. You want to know what you can do with it?


I was personally against interference in Libya - are you agreeing with me, or just insulting me?
   2951. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:46 PM (#4275363)
Hey, BOBM, I have had to ignore you until you fix the link/URL thing @2942. It broke the page.
   2952. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4275365)
"Mommy, the teacher didn't make me feel special today! I haz a sad."

I'm sorry, Sam but you are descending into JoeK territory by continually responding to Obama isn't perfect stories in this manner.
   2953. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4275366)
I was personally against interference in Libya - are you agreeing with me, or just insulting me?


I was against Libya, because I am against adventurism in the world in general. But Libya turned out a lot better than I thought it would (i.e. we're not there with an occupational army right now.) The fact that Libyans are working out their own self-rule, and that Libya's Islamic citizenry is working out of their cultural heritage in that regard, is not a notable problem for me. I thought we wanted free people choosing their own governments.

Also, it's pretty stupid to say Libya is or is not run by Islamists at this point, as Libya is still very much a polity and nation in flux. It's not like the parties of the civil war just hugged it out the day after NATO bombing ceased.
   2954. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:51 PM (#4275369)
I'm sorry, Sam but you are descending into JoeK territory by continually responding to Obama isn't perfect stories in this manner.


I'm sorry, but this seems to me to be a pretty obvious disconnect. I've never claimed Obama was perfect. Far, far from it. But the idea that he is too normal and family oriented to be President is a failing of the office of the presidency more than it's a failing of the guy that loves his family, IMHO.
   2955. BDC Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:52 PM (#4275370)
I know why I like scholarly obsessions more than purely personal ones, but I don't know that I can explain exactly how to identify them

I think one needs a cross-section of the obsessor's thought. Someone who thinks that The Shining is about a faked moon landing is likely to think that Ulysses and Invisible Man and Gilligan's Island are also about faked moon landings.
   2956. robinred Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4275372)
than it's a failing of the guy that loves his family, IMHO.

Pols are like anybody else--good at some parts of their job, not as good at others. Clinton is an awesome communicator but caused trouble by not being able to keep his dick in his pants while he was in office. Obama does not appear to have that problem, but he is not as good at slapping backs and talking to people.
   2957. Morty Causa Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4275376)
The problem wasn't that Clinton couldn't keep his dick in his pants. It was that too many people allowed people who also couldn't keep their dick in the pants to game them into believing this mattered to the extent it did. If a sizable part of the electorate is going to be dumb ##### like this, it's hopeless. If it ain't dicks in pants, it'll be something else equally stupid.
   2958. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 18, 2012 at 12:59 PM (#4275378)
I thought we wanted free people choosing their own governments.


Please tell me you're joking.......
   2959. GregD Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4275385)
I think one needs a cross-section of the obsessor's thought. Someone who thinks that The Shining is about a faked moon landing is likely to think that Ulysses and Invisible Man and Gilligan's Island are also about faked moon landings.
Yes that's clearly an important note! What about obsessives who aren't conspiratorial though? My cousin's married to a guy who is brilliant and spends his time diagramming stuff about Ulysses; it has become more real to him than his life, or it is his life. I'm confident I'm doing something different than him, but I'm not confident in the explanations my family would give for seeing me as odd but okay and him as a whackadoo (all of which center around me getting a paycheck and him not, but if someone paid him to be obsessed with Ulysses, would his actions be any different?)
   2960. spycake Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4275388)
Maybe they've been done to death before on BBTF, but I do find it odd how I can mention a US judge passing an injunction against the NDAA and the Atty. General being complicit in a program to supply US arms to Mexican drug lords and just get yawns.

Yeah, this has been hashed out here before, I'm pretty sure it was Joe K's "Obama bombshell du jour" for awhile.
   2961. spycake Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4275394)
Obama has a radical liberal agenda. Oh wait, sorry, we've switched to "Even radical liberals don't/shouldn't like Obama." Let me know when the conservative argument swings back the other way.
   2962. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4275397)
Can someone just go ahead and post 38 "flips"?
   2963. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4275398)
?
   2964. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4275399)
Darn pushing the submit button rapidly a whole bunch of times only results in a triple post.
   2965. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4275400)
The page is fine for me, but here's a post.
   2966. The Good Face Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4275401)
The physical therapists I know make very good money. Getting the degrees necessary to work as a physical therapist seems like a way better investment than, say, law school.

Almost no one becomes a physical therapist after just 4 years of college. The likely route who be do to do your 4 years of college and then try to find a PT assistant job while attending further schooling which is another 3 to 4 years of schooling. So after all of that most people will be well north of 100,000 dollars in debt and have a job that pays about 50k a year at entry level and averages about 75,00 year for the entire field.


I only know two physical therapists personally, but they both have masters degrees and they both make well over 6 figures. Both under 40. Granted two isn't a huge sample, and one of them is a stunningly beautiful woman who competes in fitness competitions and could probably get paid six figures to lounge around somebody's office wearing a tight sweater, but still.
   2967. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4275402)
Let me know when the conservative argument swings back the other way.


I'm not a conservative......
   2968. Morty Causa Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4275404)
Just put BobM on ignore until the page flips, and then you can take him off.
   2969. Lassus Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4275409)
I see Perros is on another bender.

Thirded, high-five, etc.
   2970. Lassus Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4275411)
Did some cool research on HAARP rings though.

HAARP rings, SHMAARP rings. Call me when you're working on the Dyson sphere.
   2971. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4275413)
Maybe they've been done to death before on BBTF, but I do find it odd how I can mention a US judge passing an injunction against the NDAA and the Atty. General being complicit in a program to supply US arms to Mexican drug lords and just get yawns.


I can't know, be interested in, and have opinions on everything. There is a universe of stuff out there I don't know (starting with what NDAA means, I suppose I should know ... maybe I should look it up ... National Defense Authorization Act?), and honestly your two sentance description did not grab me and make me want to learn more. Perhaps a flaw on mine.

Regarding Obama as politician. In the primaries I judge politicians by a whole host of factors and really get to know them. In the General, unless I find the specific politician odious, I generally vote party. This works because my politics aligns fairly well with the Democratic party and so 99% of the time the guy/gal with the D next to their name works for me better than the guy/gal with the R. Personal style, whether they keep it in their pants, service in the military and such things enters into the Primary Election consideration as a minor point (mostly related to electability), because policy matter more to me than fluff factors.

Yes I think character matters, a great deal actually, but determining a persons character by watching their debate performance is witchcraft and I am not skilled in that.

As to not voting, I still don't get not participating in the political process as a viable route to chaning things for the better. Things will change, they always do, but not in ways you may want. But good luck with that, let me know in a decade of not being involved how you (generic plural you) have changed things for the better.

Voting for third party candidates. Sure. I vote to get an outcome, but voting for a third party is legitimate political expression, especially when coupled with activist involvement in other political activities. Shaping a "Big 2" party more to what you want through primaries and other means seems more fruitful to me, but whatever.
   2972. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:30 PM (#4275414)
My wife currently has a class of PT and occupational therapists assistants. Their not taking it very well that their spelling matters after being told for 12 years that it didn't.
   2973. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:31 PM (#4275415)
Call me when you're working on the Dyson sphere.


Love giant engineering projects. Dyson spheres, ring worlds, all that stuff is great. And yes I am trying to fill space and get to the next page.
   2974. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4275420)
Yeah, this has been hashed out here before, I'm pretty sure it was Joe K's "Obama bombshell du jour" for awhile.


I must have blanked it from my mind. Good mind, have a cookie.
   2975. zonk Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4275421)
ChiTrib will start charging for digital content in November...

Also just trying to waste posts
   2976. Accent Shallow Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4275424)
Isn't the main objection to a Dyson sphere that it would take more energy to gather the materials and build than it would generate?

Rebuttal of course being that you build small amounts at a time, Dyson Swarm.
   2977. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4275425)
he is not as good at slapping backs and talking to people.


The odd thing about Obama (for me anyway) is I keep thinking he is not very good at some parts of his job, and then he keeps being successful. Four years of being in office, and every timehe looked bozed in, a few weeks later he accomplished what he wanted (of course I wanted some different things than him, but he did seem to get what he wanted. He might have been narrowcasting what he wanted to what was possible also).

Clinton was maybe a better "natural politician" and all that but ignoring the economy* the accomplishments of Obama in 4 years stacks up better than Clinton's 8 years (from my biased liberal perspective). Specifically Clinton did a bunch of small bore stuff and some stuff I am not fond of (Hi DOMA!) that was likely foisted on him with occasional good stuff. Obama has bigger and better gets.

* Of course the economy is a BFD. How much of that, or any of this stuff, is controlled or influenced by the President is an open question. Still Clinton will always get mad props for his economy and Obama will get dinged for his, and fair or not that is life.
   2978. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4275427)
Isn't the main objection to a Dyson sphere that it would take more energy to gather the materials and build than it would generate?


I thought the main problem was first it is a cool solution looking for a problem (who the heck needs that much space?) and wasn't very stable once built. I think that is one reason for a Ring World instead of a full on sphere - that it still has space and still captures huge amounts of energy from the sun, but is more stable and easier to build. But heck not my field at all.
   2979. The Good Face Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4275428)
Isn't the main objection to a Dyson sphere that it would take more energy to gather the materials and build than it would generate?

Rebuttal of course being that you build small amounts at a time, Dyson Swarm.


Yeah, any civilization that had the ability to build a true Dyson sphere would have access to energy sources that make a single star's output look like a campfire.

   2980. zonk Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4275429)
I am also soooooo tired today...

It's all because idiot executives stupidly decided we could do without an in-house SQL expert DBA and sourced the work to a vendor... after months of me and a counterpart on the software side screaming about the utter waste that is our vendor... they brought in a noob... who sucks...

I hate short-sightedness - and near as I can tell, modern business at the high levels is filled with nothing but idiots whose minds are too weak to see past the next P&L.... I mean, WTF? If an exec fails, they parachute out with plenty of cash and a rolodex full of the next board of idiots to give them a new thing to screw up... meanwhile, I have to clean up the mess -- but with a NEW moron executive who is charged with cutting the bloated costs of vendor contracts and programs that do nothing but produce powerpoints, but since THOSE such things can't be cut -- why, let's cut another headcount so the problem can get incrementally worse for the next executive... who will be even stupider... I've reached the conclusion that my only hope is to just hang around long to get one of those moron gigs myself, let my own brain turn to mush, and then hop on board the same gravy train.

   2981. Jay Z Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4275430)
This whole glad handing business is way overdone. Please show me the where it's had a huge impact on legislation.

The Dems get their stuff passed when they have big majorities in Congress. Like FDR and LBJ had.

Repubs have represented the moneyed elite forever, who are the most comfortable people in any society with doing nothing. So obstruction is always an option for them. Dems can't play the obstruction game as often because their voters usually want them to do something. So a Repub president doesn't need the majorities the Dems need to pass what they want. Been this way forever. Any Dem prez isn't going to arm-twist, gladhand, or hypnotize the Repubs into passing what they want.
   2982. robinred Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4275431)
The problem wasn't that Clinton couldn't keep his dick in his pants


Well, the issue there was "judgment on the job." On a private level, what Clinton does with his dick is between him, his wife, and the other participant(s). But there are things in any job that are not illegal in any case, and immoral depending on one's POV, but things that you shouldn't do since they are incompatible with the job.
   2983. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:46 PM (#4275434)
The problem wasn't that Clinton couldn't keep his dick in his pants.


It was that he got caught. And then stupidly lied about it. Fortunately the R team went way to far on it and the public moved on. If you look at the polling from the time it was clear the public mostly did not care that much about the whole thing (other than as a purient story of course).
   2984. zonk Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:46 PM (#4275436)
The odd thing about Obama (for me anyway) is I keep thinking he is not very good at some parts of his job, and then he keeps being successful. Four years of being in office, and every timehe looked bozed in, a few weeks later he accomplished what he wanted (of course I wanted some different things than him, but he did seem to get what he wanted. He might have been narrowcasting what he wanted to what was possible also).

Clinton was maybe a better "natural politician" and all that but ignoring the economy* the accomplishments of Obama in 4 years stacks up better than Clinton's 8 years (from my biased liberal perspective). Specifically Clinton did a bunch of small bore stuff and some stuff I am not fond of (Hi DOMA!) that was likely foisted on him with occasional good stuff. Obama has bigger and better gets.

* Of course the economy is a BFD. How much of that, or any of this stuff, is controlled or influenced by the President is an open question. Still Clinton will always get mad props for his economy and Obama will get dinged for his, and fair or not that is life.


I am not anti-Clinton...

But at some point, don't we have to face the idea that the 90s boom was an unsustainable bubble -- some of which burst late in his Presidency (the tech bubble), but others -- exotic securities and derivatives market, housing, etc -- that just burst later?
   2985. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:47 PM (#4275438)
I like coffee.
   2986. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4275441)
Sometimes, my toe cramps up and my entire foot goes into a talon like claw, sort of the thing you'd imagine on a Neil Gaiman inspired harpy.
   2987. zonk Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4275442)
This whole glad handing business is way overdone. Please show me the where it's had a huge impact on legislation.

The Dems get their stuff passed when they have big majorities in Congress. Like FDR and LBJ had.

Repubs have represented the moneyed elite forever, who are the most comfortable people in any society with doing nothing. So obstruction is always an option for them. Dems can't play the obstruction game as often because their voters usually want them to do something. So a Repub president doesn't need the majorities the Dems need to pass what they want. Been this way forever. Any Dem prez isn't going to arm-twist, gladhand, or hypnotize the Repubs into passing what they want.


I think you can blame new campaign finance rules, too --

I mean, it wasn't gladhanding (at least alone) that let past Presidents 'get their way'... it was the fact that, to get reelected, you certainly didn't want to be on your party's standard bearer's bad side.

Now? Virtually no one -- really, from either party -- needs to kiss Presidential ass in order to get reelected. Doesn't matter which party controls the WH -- what influence can a President really have anymore?
   2988. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4275447)
Here's a comic strip about the way characters die in A Game Of Thrones/Song of Fire & Ice.
   2989. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4275448)
It's all because idiot executives stupidly decided we could do without an in-house SQL expert DBA and sourced the work to a vendor... after months of me and a counterpart on the software side screaming about the utter waste that is our vendor... they brought in a noob... who sucks...


DBA expertise is a funny thing. Some are great, most are largely harmless, and some need to be locked into a utility closet and never let out. This is annoying when you need something done, especially when you know more than they do and just want them to do what you told them to!

Sorry a little PTSD on my part.
   2990. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4275449)
Bitter, I guess I just have trouble with a politician (Obama) who heads an administration that has gone to great lengths to cover up the fact that the US supplied over 2000 guns directly to Mexican druglords, while on the other hand spending billions of dollars through the Merida Act and domestic enforcement to punish drug users. That's what I mean about these issues. Complicity in just one issue as ridiculous as this should be enough to make anyone with a brain question the narrative and motives behind every single thing they do.

   2991. zonk Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4275451)
You know who I really don't like?

Donald Trump
   2992. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4275452)
But at some point, don't we have to face the idea that the 90s boom was an unsustainable bubble -- some
of which burst late in his Presidency (the tech bubble), but others -- exotic securities and derivatives market, housing,
etc -- that just burst later?

Well, if we're not going to give credit to Clinton or assign blame to Obama, then we can't assign credit or blame to Bush,
either. It's a sensible idea, but probably not one that will ever be agreed to, since one party would have to take a leap
of faith and then trust that the other party would hold up its end of the bargain in the future.
   2993. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:52 PM (#4275453)
]This is a pretty interesting take on the whole Libya/Bhengazi spin Joke was trying to pull off the other day.
   2994. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4275455)
Am I the only person stunned - simply stunned - that Will Leitch followed up his "I know I love the Cards more than you, but that's because you're a stupid loser" rant-post with a "why can't we all just admit Joe Buck is the bestest ever" cross?
   2995. zonk Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4275456)
DBA expertise is a funny thing. Some are great, most are largely harmless, and some need to be locked into a utility closet and never let out. This is annoying when you need something done, especially when you know more than they do and just want them to do what you told them to!

Sorry a little PTSD on my part.


But when you have one who is truly great -- one that really, really excels at meeting you at that halfway point, where you provide the data needs, the potential extraction types and sequences, and s/he provides an excellent architectural solution, with loads of expandability, and ALSO excels at whipping up little one-off queries when you just need to dump some ####.... you keep them.

Alas, though... idiot executives don't know anything about anything except a raw number some other idiot gave them.
   2996. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4275458)
Bitter, I guess I just have trouble with a politician (Obama) who heads an administration that has gone to great lengths to cover up the
fact that the US supplied over 2000 guns directly to Mexican druglords, while on the other hand spending billions of dollars through the
Merida Act and domestic enforcement to punish drug users. Thats what I mean about these issues. Complicity in just one issed as ridiculous
as this should be enough to make anyone with a brain question the narrative and motives behind every single thing they do.

Yeah, I've tried, but the lefties here just don't care about a bunch of dead Mexicans.
   2997. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4275459)
But at some point, don't we have to face the idea that the 90s boom was an unsustainable bubble


Trying to decide what top blame on who (or who to credit for what) is really hard. Some economists think that lowering tax rates on high income folks leads to unsustainable bubbles no matter what the rest of the policies are.* At some point I think it is OK to just assign credit and blame based on the siple timeline as long as you know it is not at all fair.

* Basic theory is the rich then have extra income to spend. Being rich combined with the dimishing marginal utility of consumption leads to a search for places to invest the excess money. Too much excess money chasing too few good investments leads to asset bubbles - which eventually pop. It is a good narrative and does fit my preexisting bias, but I am not sure I buy it. Still considering.
   2998. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4275460)
I hate short-sightedness - and near as I can tell, modern business at the high levels is filled with nothing but idiots whose minds are too weak to see past the next P&L.... I mean, WTF? If an exec fails, they parachute out with plenty of cash and a rolodex full of the next board of idiots to give them a new thing to screw up... meanwhile, I have to clean up the mess -- but with a NEW moron executive who is charged with cutting the bloated costs of vendor contracts and programs that do nothing but produce powerpoints, but since THOSE such things can't be cut -- why, let's cut another headcount so the problem can get incrementally worse for the next executive... who will be even stupider... I've reached the conclusion that my only hope is to just hang around long to get one of those moron gigs myself, let my own brain turn to mush, and then hop on board the same gravy train


Dude. The market says so. The private market.

Why do you hate America?
   2999. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4275462)
]This is a pretty interesting take on the whole Libya/Bhengazi spin Joke was trying to pull off the other day.

That's a sensible piece, in some alternate universe where Obama didn't go to the U.N. and mention the YouTube video six times.
   3000. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 18, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4275463)
But at some point, don't we have to face the idea that the 90s boom was an unsustainable bubble


Pretty much all economic 'expansion' post-Reagan has been bubble driven. That is to say, there has been no real economic growth, only bubbles in various industries which have siphoned resources out of the middle class and into the upper class's coffers.
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