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Tuesday, October 02, 2012

OTP: October 2012-THE RACE: As Candidates Prep, Attention in DC split between politics and baseball

While President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney bone up in Nevada and Colorado for Wednesday’s opening debate, back in the nation’s capital attention is split between the hard-fought presidential race and baseball playoffs.

The Nationals won the first division baseball championship for a Washington team since 1933 by clinching the National League East race Monday night.

Washington, D.C., has the only ballpark where so many Cabinet members, politicians and other luminaries routinely gather and where fans now are openly rooting for a particular president — one who served more than a century ago, Theodore Roosevelt.

“Let Teddy Win” banners and buttons are everywhere. Fans like 2008 GOP presidential nominee Sen. John McCain of Arizona say it’s time for Roosevelt’s 500-plus losing streak to end.

[...]

“Teddy, you are the victim of a vast left-wing conspiracy by the commie pinko libs in this town,” McCain said in a video played in the stadium Monday night. “But you can overcome that.”

The October 2012 “OT: Politics” thread starts ... now.

Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 02, 2012 at 02:14 PM | 6119 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nationals, politics

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   4301. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4280860)
Why has it never occurred to me (like seriously never) that political volunteering is a great way to meet single women? I am a dumb mouse. Sheesh.


Ever see Taxi Driver?
   4302. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:19 PM (#4280862)
@4269/Andy:

It's perfectly reasonable to ask Romney about his position on the Church, especially prior to 1978. It's perfectly reasonable to ask about Romney's association. It's absolutely reasonable to point out the double standard here. However, Sullivan isn't just doing those things.

Sullivan trolling Romney's Mormonism is exactly what was wrong about the Right's reaction to Wright and done in a remarkably similar fashion. This is about creating some framework to insinuate Romney supported Mormon Church racism in some fashion beyond being a member of the Church he was born into. There is absolutely nothing to that effect. Sullivan himself is a cafeteria Catholic*, and he should afford Romney a similar benefit of the doubt wrt free will. This is a hit piece, plain and simple.

*I think that's the right term?
   4303. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:20 PM (#4280866)
So if Mormonism is no longer a Satanic cult (as of this month)


Mormonism is, theologically speaking, roughly as closely related to Christianity as Islam is to Christianity, or Christianity is to Judaism...

   4304. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:20 PM (#4280867)
Ever see Taxi Driver?


No. I have odd gaps in my movie watching. I just saw Dr. Strangelove this past weekend in fact.
   4305. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:22 PM (#4280869)
It's perfectly reasonable to ask Romney about his position on the Church, especially prior to 1978. It's perfectly reasonable to ask about Romney's association. It's absolutely reasonable to point out the double standard here. However, Sullivan isn't just doing those things.


I think the only reasonable use of Romney's Mormonism is as a rebuttal to those remaining lunkheads who want to harp about Jeremiah Wright...

   4306. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4280873)
Sullivan trolling Romney's Mormonism is exactly what was wrong about the Right's reaction to Wright and done in a remarkably similar fashion.


Golly, amazing how everyone in the librulmedia seems to have learned their lesson from the overzealous pursuit of that negro church! And just in time too!

This is about creating some framework to insinuate Romney supported Mormon Church racism in some fashion beyond being a member of the Church he was born into.


Surely there's nothing in their scripture supporting any inherent inferiority of the negro, right?
   4307. tshipman Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:25 PM (#4280874)
What is the beef with Obama on the left?

Medical Marijuana? Drones? Are those the real policy beefs? It's really hard to differentiate between people who actually have policy disagreements and people who are upset that we're in a recession.
   4308. just plain joe Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:26 PM (#4280876)
Why has it never occurred to me (like seriously never) that political volunteering is a great way to meet single women? I am a dumb mouse. Sheesh.


I don't know; I was a McGovern volunteer in 1972 (yes, I was young and idealistic) and there were plenty of single women around. Of course 90-95% of them were hippies who didn't shave their legs or under their arms.
   4309. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:28 PM (#4280877)
Well I bet you didn't either, moonbeam.
   4310. bunyon Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4280882)
I agree with this. I think that it is helpful to make Romney spend lots of money on Florida, because it limits the amount of money he can spend on Ohio. Probably one of OH or FL wins the election for Obama. Romney likely needs both. Given that, why not make him work hard in FL?



Yeah. You hammer the body blows to FL even if you plan on delivering the knock-out hook to OH.


It seems to me that this election is too close to give up anywhere if you have the money and people to keep active there. Run through the fricking bag, boys.
   4311. zonk Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4280883)

you feel like you're actually doing something besides hitting on the single ladies...



Why has it never occurred to me (like seriously never) that political volunteering is a great way to meet single women? I am a dumb mouse. Sheesh.


Yeah, I'm telling ya'...

A couple friends and I were serious Deaniacs in 2003/4 -- so we held a couple 'events', which consisted entirely of setting out an envelope for checks, posting printouts of the Dean website position papers on the wall, and then proceeding to have a #####-and-moan about Bush session with about 30-40 people who had always voted Democratic, were absolutely going to vote Democratic this cycle, and had zero idea how to do anything more... but we also had snacks and drinks, and while 'socializing' --

It was seriously the most amazing thing I'd ever seen - the single ladies absolutely zero in any guy not wearing a ring and if you can manage to communicate without drooling on yourself, you're pretty much golden.

I have zero idea if it works the same way on both sides of the aisle, but it's pretty clear that you've got a mix of ladies that are 1)not shy about expressing opinions and being forward about their intentions, and 2) rather interested in guys that demonstrate an interest in anything besides xbox...

They key though - you've got to find yourself a poorly run campaign ;-)

Tight operations like the Obama one are a bit more Foxconn-ish -- not that someone's standing over you with a whip, but there's not much wandering around and socializing.
   4312. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4280887)
What is the beef with Obama on the left?


For me (small sample size alert):
* General Hawkishness ... drones and so on.
* Mediocre of civil rights ... Everything from Gitmo to Gay Marriage (the late conversion helps on this a bit)
* General Centrism ... Love of Grand Bargains, negotiating with himself and so on
* Lack of Partisanship (similar to above) ... More about the Obama brand than the D by his name, post partisan nonsense, and so on

All in all some promises not kept and some squishy centrist post partisan obsession with negotiating with the Republicans to the point of hurting the economy, along with a bit more hawkishness than I prefer.

Note: I am an Obama supporter, I don't think he is the lesser evil, because I don't think he is evil at all - just not perfect. He is a very good politician and strategist and has seveal times suprised me with various political maneauvers (good outcomes when I thought there were none to be had). Overall I would give him a B+ (partly grading on a curve with bonus points for the crap he inherited and the fabulous Congress he has had to work with - queue Joe K and his but for 181 days and 7 minutes silliness).

EDIT: I am not all that left, but I am to the left of Obama I think, who as I have said before is a Center Left pragmatist.
   4313. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:35 PM (#4280888)
It was seriously the most amazing thing I'd ever seen - the single ladies absolutely zero in any guy not wearing a ring and if you can manage to communicate without drooling on yourself, you're pretty much golden.


Crap. No drooling you say. I will work on that for next election I guess.
   4314. zonk Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4280889)
What is the beef with Obama on the left?

Medical Marijuana? Drones? Are those the real policy beefs? It's really hard to differentiate between people who actually have policy disagreements and people who are upset that we're in a recession.


War on Drugs, drones, and the like.

There are legitimate policy points of conflict for plenty of folks on the left. I even sympathize with lots of them - I just believe that slow and steady slides are the way things work rather than abrupt changes in policy.
   4315. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4280890)
What is the beef with Obama on the left?

Medical Marijuana? Drones? Are those the real policy beefs? It's really hard to differentiate between people who actually have policy disagreements and people who are upset that we're in a recession.


He didn't validate their feelings quickly enough, and now everything is ruined forever.
   4316. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4280894)
@4269/Andy:

It's perfectly reasonable to ask Romney about his position on the Church, especially prior to 1978. It's perfectly reasonable to ask about Romney's association. It's absolutely reasonable to point out the double standard here. However, Sullivan isn't just doing those things.

Sullivan trolling Romney's Mormonism is exactly what was wrong about the Right's reaction to Wright and done in a remarkably similar fashion. This is about creating some framework to insinuate Romney supported Mormon Church racism in some fashion beyond being a member of the Church he was born into. There is absolutely nothing to that effect. Sullivan himself is a cafeteria Catholic*, and he should afford Romney a similar benefit of the doubt wrt free will. This is a hit piece, plain and simple.


I'd think that Sullivan's comments could be fairly equated to the Wright obsessors if he kept it up for more than one or two more posts. That was what truly distinguished the Wright obsessors----They kept raising "questions" that had been answered over and over to anyone not looking to convert a question into a neverending obsession. It remains to be seen whether Sullivan will fall into that, but I wouldn't assume it before it happens.

--------------------------------------

I think the only reasonable use of Romney's Mormonism is as a rebuttal to those remaining lunkheads who want to harp about Jeremiah Wright...

Maybe on a forum like this, but the last thing either candidate needs to do at this point is to get sidetracked into Breitbart/Drudge/Hannity types of trolling.
   4317. robinred Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:37 PM (#4280895)
Medical Marijuana? Drones?


These, + Afghanistan, the war on drugs, some immigration stuff and some stuff Duncan is doing for me.

As far as enthusiasm re. bunyon's comment, I am seeing the same thing. Basically, people don't like losing. A lot of the American left is not thrilled with Obama, but the idea of his losing to a guy like Romney is, uhh, less thrilling than Obama himself is. So I think the "enthusiasm" is actually "We don't want to lose" more than a second honeymoon with Obama.

Obama has been almost exactly what I expected, however.
   4318. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4280900)
a second honeymoon with Obama


If he beats Romney and the Right foams at the mouth and gets all Tea Party on the bit then I and many on the Left will in fact be willing to give Obama a second honeymoon (Schadenfraude and all that).
   4319. robinred Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4280902)
BM--

Maybe. But I think it will be a short one.
   4320. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:42 PM (#4280906)
I'd think that Sullivan's comments could be fairly equated to the Wright obsessors if he kept it up for more than one or two more posts. That was what truly distinguished the Wright obsessors----They kept raising "questions" that had been answered over and over to anyone not looking to convert a question into a neverending obsession. It remains to be seen whether Sullivan will fall into that, but I wouldn't assume it before it happens.


Once more: There were no remaining "questions" about Obama/Wright that were needed to form a judgment. The necessary questions had been asked and answered: Obama sat in Wright's church for 20 years and listened to him - and by Obama's own admission heard "controversial" things - and, still more, heaped praise onto Wright.

No more "questions" were needed to conclude that Obama's association with Wright in and of itself was a problem, any more than we need to know whether Rose bet against the Reds to declare Rose unfit for MLB. We didn't need to know whether Obama subscribed to Wright's views. That was always the red herring you threw up.
   4321. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4280918)
Once more: There were no remaining "questions" about Obama/Wright that were needed to form a judgment. The necessary questions had been asked and answered: Obama sat in Wright's church for 20 years and listened to him - and by Obama's own admission heard "controversial" things - and, still more, heaped praise onto Wright.

And so I guess there are also no remaining "questions" about Romney's continuing membership in a racist church. I guess that's all you need to know about Romney, unless you think that for the first 31 years of his life Romney was completely unaware of his church's racist history and doctrine, even as he was doing missionary work for them in France.

But then I guess that's different. Not sure why, but I'm sure you'll come up with an explanation. You've always got plenty of explanations for every occasion.
   4322. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:52 PM (#4280921)
There were no remaining "questions" about Obama/Wright that were needed to form a judgment. The necessary questions had been asked and answered: Obama sat in Wright's church for 20 years and listened to him - and by Obama's own admission heard "controversial" things - and, still more, heaped praise onto Wright.


What a lovely construct you have there. If he truly liked Rev. Wright, enjoyed the experience and in 20 years heard two controversial things - then that is a "problem".

My goodness he failed to criticise his religious leader and even praised him, has he no shame! Everyone else in America, certainly every politician, completely owns everything his or her religious leader says until and unless the explicitly denounce them and/or their controversial views.

As I said, neat construct, too bad it has nothing to do with reality.

EDIT: I need to think faster or type faster, especially when an old coot like Andy beats me to it. Oh well to the swift go the spoils, so have a coke on me.
   4323. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4280927)
Going back 34 years in an attempt to tie Romney to the former position of his church strikes me as a losing tactic. Those that disagree can give it a try.
   4324. Famous Original Joe C Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4280928)
Oh, right wing media! (and commenters)

Day by day by day, Gallup is proving itself to not be the outlier Democrats have counted on. With today's 51-46% lead for Mitt Romney, we have entered day eight of Gallup showing Romney over 50 and Obama stuck in the mid-forties. What we're seeing is no one-day fluke, either. This is a real, sustained lead. Rasmussen confirmed this with its three-day tracking poll today, 50-46% for Romney. There's no question the popular vote is pretty much in the bag.


And from the comments:

Marxists do not go quietly into the night. Leftists did not paitently chip away at insitutions and culture to surrender a close election when they are so close to total control. It is not yet time to celebrate. I think you are all mostly right about the will of the people, but it is the actual vote tally that we have to concern ourselves with. Be very concerned about double voting and let it be known that you will actively support efforts to prosecute double voting, it is the easiest form to prove, and likely the most prevalent type. This has not been an ordinary presidency, and it will not be an ordinary election. Your opponent believes their cause is just, and the ends justify the means!


Obama's Oct or Nov surprise = cancelling the elections with a stroke of his EO pen?
Every other tactic has failed, desperate times (for them) call for desperate measures.
So what are the rest of us gonna do when/if Obama tries this?


Here comes the big landslide, I predicted a popular vote 53-47 a month ago. The states lag the popular vote. Looks like I might have lowballed that number.


ROMNEY LOOKS GOOD IN THESE SWING STATES.....................GREAT!!!
NOW THE BAD NEWS! HAS ANYONE SEEN ERIC HOLDER FOR THE LAST MONTH??
RUMOR IS, HE'S TOURING THE MIDWEST GIVING VOTER FRAUD TIPS, HANDING OUT CIGARETTES, VODKA, GREEN CARDS, CELL PHONES AND FOOD STAMPS TO ANYONE WHO'LL VOTE FOR OBAMA...................



   4325. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4280930)
What a lovely construct you have there. If he truly liked Rev. Wright, enjoyed the experience and in 20 years heard two controversial things - then that is a "problem".


This argument fails on its own weight. Obama didn't say, "Hey, I like Wright and I enjoyed the experience even though I heard controversial things, so go scratch." He said, "I am cutting ties with Wright."

My goodness he failed to criticise his religious leader and even praised him, has he no shame!


What planet are you posting from? He did criticize Wright. And then he cut Wright loose.
   4326. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4280941)
What planet are you posting from?


It's near Kolob. Don't know where that is? Maybe you could ask Romney if this is one of the controversial statements he heard in his church.
   4327. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:04 PM (#4280942)
Going back 34 years in an attempt to tie Romney to the former position of his church strikes me as a losing tactic. Those that disagree can give it a try.

Completely agree on all counts.

------------------------------------------------

What a lovely construct you have there. If he truly liked Rev. Wright, enjoyed the experience and in 20 years heard two controversial things - then that is a "problem".


This argument fails on its own weight. Obama didn't say, "Hey, I like Wright and I enjoyed the experience even though I heard controversial things, so go scratch." He said, "I am cutting ties with Wright."

And so we both agree that (a) it was crazy to obsess over Wright once Obama made his Philadelphia speech, and (b) it would be equally crazy to obsess over Romney's Mormonism during the first 31 years of his life. That certainly works for me.
   4328. robinred Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:04 PM (#4280943)
Looking at Joe C's outtakes, it strikes me that there may be a lot on the line for Nate Silver here. If he stays with his projections, and is proven to be correct, that will elevate his status further.

If the Gallup numbers are right, I assume many will accuse Silver of allowing bias to undermine his work.
   4329. DA Baracus Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4280947)
Looking at Joe C's outtakes, it strikes me that there may be a lot on the line for Nate Silver here. If he stays with his projections, and is proven to be correct, that will elevate his status further.


Silver might have a lot on the line, but it won't be from the Breitbart troglodytes who think, among other things, that Marxist liberals will be voting twice or that the President can cancel the election with an Executive Order.
   4330. Famous Original Joe C Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:13 PM (#4280952)
Marxist liberals will be voting twice or that the President can cancel the election with an Executive Order.


I mean, this stuff is sort of amazing, when you think about it. What a strange, terrifying worldview that must be.
   4331. tshipman Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:14 PM (#4280953)
RUMOR IS, HE'S TOURING THE MIDWEST GIVING VOTER FRAUD TIPS, HANDING OUT CIGARETTES, VODKA, GREEN CARDS, CELL PHONES AND FOOD STAMPS TO ANYONE WHO'LL VOTE FOR OBAMA...................


####### Eric Holder. What are you doing touring the Midwest when we need cigarettes and vodka in California????

I imagine that if Obama wins, the claim will be in the fever swamps that he won due to voter fraud.
   4332. robinred Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:14 PM (#4280954)
Breitbart troglodytes


I was referring more to the Gallup numbers; I would guess, however, that many reasonable people on the right now think that Romney is going to win, so if a liberal running a projections blog for the NYT calls it for Obama and is correct, well, that will be a pretty big deal for Silver, particularly if outfits like Gallup and Rasmussen get it wrong.
   4333. DA Baracus Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4280956)
I mean, this stuff is sort of amazing, when you think about it. What a strange, terrifying worldview that must be.


I find this stuff fascinating. There are batshit crazy morons on all sides of course, but the stuff that is said about Obama is particularly out there.
   4334. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4280958)
A couple friends and I were serious Deaniacs in 2003/4 -- so we held a couple 'events', which consisted entirely of setting out an envelope for checks, posting printouts of the Dean website position papers on the wall, and then proceeding to have a #####-and-moan about Bush session with about 30-40 people who had always voted Democratic, were absolutely going to vote Democratic this cycle, and had zero idea how to do anything more... but we also had snacks and drinks, and while 'socializing' --

It was seriously the most amazing thing I'd ever seen - the single ladies absolutely zero in any guy not wearing a ring and if you can manage to communicate without drooling on yourself, you're pretty much golden.

I have zero idea if it works the same way on both sides of the aisle, but it's pretty clear that you've got a mix of ladies that are 1)not shy about expressing opinions and being forward about their intentions, and 2) rather interested in guys that demonstrate an interest in anything besides xbox...

Much the same for Bush's second inauguration, DC, 2004, except "the ladies" really REALLY wanted to be told what to do. Total fiends for a daddy/boss type.
Just wear a flag lapel pin and talk about the need to support our Commander in Chief, and the Stepford Hotties would line right up.
If you were hypothetically a bad person, you didn't even need to believe what you were saying. You just had to say it with conviction.
   4335. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:19 PM (#4280962)
Marxist liberals will be voting twice or that the President can cancel the election with an Executive Order.

I mean, this stuff is sort of amazing, when you think about it. What a strange, terrifying worldview that must be.

Eh, a lot of lefties said the same thing about Bush, pretending to be worried he'd declare some kind of "constitutional emergency" and refuse to leave office.
   4336. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:20 PM (#4280964)
RUMOR IS, HE'S TOURING THE MIDWEST GIVING VOTER FRAUD TIPS, HANDING OUT CIGARETTES, VODKA


Carlton Fisk clearly got in some early voting the other night.
   4337. Famous Original Joe C Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:23 PM (#4280967)
I find this stuff fascinating. There are batshit crazy morons on all sides of course, but the stuff that is said about Obama is particularly out there.


Agreed - I could quote folks on Democratuc Underground who think Bain is going to control the election by buying up voting machines and that they hold sway over CNN's post-debate coverage, too, but some of the Obama-specific stuff - man, it really makes you wonder.
   4338. DA Baracus Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:23 PM (#4280968)
Eh, a lot of lefties said the same thing about Bush, pretending to be worried he'd declare some kind of "constitutional emergency" and refuse to leave office.


Bush would have gotten away with it since he and many high ranking members of the government are reptilian shape shifting Illuminati.

Obama wants to do it because he's a secret Muslim.
   4339. Famous Original Joe C Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4280969)
Eh, a lot of lefties said the same thing about Bush, pretending to be worried he'd declare some kind of "constitutional emergency" and refuse to leave office.


I don't know if "a lot" is really the right amount, but (obviously) they were idiots as well.
   4340. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4280971)
you didn't even need to believe what you were saying. You just had to say it with conviction.


The Hook brings you back.
   4341. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4280974)
Marxist liberals will be voting twice or that the President can cancel the election with an Executive Order.

I mean, this stuff is sort of amazing, when you think about it. What a strange, terrifying worldview that must be.

Eh, a lot of lefties said the same thing about Bush, pretending to be worried he'd declare some kind of "constitutional emergency" and refuse to leave office.


The first I heard this type of nonsense was late summer 2000 with Bush leading Gore in the Polls, started seeing stuff about how Clinton was gonna declare marshal law so he could stay on...

Regarding 2008- maybe if Cheney was President :-), but I think Dubya just wanted to get the hell out of Dodge and decompress
   4342. BDC Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:32 PM (#4280981)
I'm now so happy I wrote this about Presidential transitions four years ago this week:

[A]s sinister as the actions of Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and others during the Bush 43 administration have seemed, there does seem (knock on wood) to be a certain constitutional order to their operating assumptions. President Bush and Vice President Cheney are probably cleaning out their desks as I write and getting ready to give either Obama or McCain a tour of the White House, and either Biden or Palin a tour of the Undisclosed Location.


OK, there's this leftie on record as doubting the coup-propensity of George W. But perhaps I am a pretty sane lefty :)

The context, BTW, was a review of a book about Richard Nixon. Now that guy was worth worrying about.
   4343. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:34 PM (#4280985)
There was a fair amount of frothing over voting "irregularities" in Ohio in 2004, but I think the most "fever-swampish" I ever heard people on the left get is the conspiracy theory that George Bush ordered a massacre of african-americans by the US military in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and then had the bodies disposed of in the swamps outside of New Orleans. Obviously, that wasn't nearly as popular as many of the fever-swamp dreams bandied about by the right in the years since 2008, but it did count the Green Party's 2008 Presidential Candidate among its adherents ...
   4344. The District Attorney Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4280987)
declare some kind of "constitutional emergency" and refuse to leave office
Giuliani came perilously close to this in 2001. But he ultimately backed down, and at least it was, in fact, the aftermath of an enormous emergency...
   4345. Chicago Joe Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4280988)
how Clinton was gonna declare marshal law


Odds of Clinton's declarations:
Marsha Law: 45%
Marshmallow Law: 37%
Marshall's Law (cheap socks for everyone!): 11%
Marichal Law (Outlaw handguns, mandate bat ownership): 7%
Marital Law: 1%
Martial Law: no line.

   4346. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4280992)
4345 was better than this thread deserves.
   4347. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:48 PM (#4280997)
Oh, so you think I don't know it's martial law and not marshal law huh? You think it was a typo of mine?


well take this

Clinton does not deny the fact that there are foreign troops in America and does not deny the building of concentration camps. His professional political hypnotic rhetoric agrees to “cooperating” with Nato and the UN that supports the New World Order.
The typical crisis needed to launch Marshal Law in America would be threat of imminent nuclear war, rioting in several U.S. cites simultaneously, a series of national disasters that affect widespread danger to the populous, massive terrorist attacks, a depression in which tens of millions are unemployed and without financial resources, a virus pandemic, or a major environmental disaster. The Military complex of wizardry weapons of mass destruction is capable of causing a situation. Even so, deception is crucial to justify Marshal Law to the ignorant that will allow the round of the so-called uprising terrorist.


Read more: http://adventofdeception.com/fema-concentration-camps-america/#ixzz2AA3W4oLk


:-)
   4348. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 23, 2012 at 05:57 PM (#4281004)
What planet are you posting from? He did criticize Wright. And then he cut Wright loose.


I was going with your statement of the "problem".

The necessary questions had been asked and answered: Obama sat in Wright's church for 20 years and listened to him - and by Obama's own admission heard "controversial" things - and, still more, heaped praise onto Wright.


I know Obama cut him loose. It was a political decision. Now you want to hold him to the standard of having been with him for 20 whole years and heaping praise AND then blame him for cutting him loose. Your bizarre construct is getting even better.

In the real world no one should have cared about Rev. Wright, since no one cares about the religious leaders of any other politicians. And also in the real world politicians cut ties with people who are political problems. Neither him being in the church nor him cutting Wright loose are big deals in the slightest, except in the fever swamps.
   4349. Chicago Joe Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4281009)
http://adventofdeception.com/fema-concentration-camps-america/#ixzz2AA3W4oLk


Grandma praises Obama's diction and stuff just gets out of hand :)
   4350. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:01 PM (#4281012)
Giuliani came perilously close to this in 2001. But he ultimately backed down, and at least it was, in fact, the aftermath of an enormous emergency...


He merely "offered" to stay on if the city needed him...

   4351. Dan The Mediocre Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:05 PM (#4281016)

The first I heard this type of nonsense was late summer 2000 with Bush leading Gore in the Polls, started seeing stuff about how Clinton was gonna declare marshal law so he could stay on.


Well.....
   4352. bobm Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:06 PM (#4281018)
[4324]

Did this nuttiness get posted yet?

A man claiming to be a close pal to President Obama during college made contact with Republican operatives recently, ready to go public with claims that Obama used and sold cocaine in college, RadarOnline.com is reporting exclusively.
   4353. spike Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:11 PM (#4281019)
Apparently, Romney turned him down but purportedly Trump took him up on it.
   4354. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:12 PM (#4281020)
A man claiming to be a close pal to President Obama during college made contact with Republican operatives recently, ready to go public with claims that Obama used and sold cocaine in college, RadarOnline.com is reporting exclusively.


I thought Obama had admitted long ago to using cocaine as a teenager, although since I don't care whether he did I haven't followed the details.

Pushing would of course be a different story, not that I would care about that either.
   4355. tshipman Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:14 PM (#4281023)
Trump is pushing it. Doesn't that automatically make it not credible?
   4356. GregD Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:16 PM (#4281025)
I would guess that it would take a lot for an old scandal to hurt an incumbent. You can hurt a newcomer much more easily since he's less filled in, but no one who is open to Obama is going to be moved by a story he sold cocaine 30 years ago. This is what I never got about the Bush allegations in 2004. In 2000 they would have hurt him. By 2004, people knew who Bush was, for better and for worse, and the people who were open to voting for him could live with anything that came out.

I guess you can help turn out your own base, but again 2004 shows that ain't always enough.

A scandal about a recent event, that would be a different story.
   4357. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4281026)
Trump is pushing it. Doesn't that automatically make it not credible?


Pretty much, yes.
   4358. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:20 PM (#4281028)
If the Gallup numbers are right, I assume many will accuse Silver of allowing bias to undermine his work.

I would think folks would re-examine the difficulty of getting an accurate poll with only 8% responding, and look at whether non-responders tilt toward either party.
   4359. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:21 PM (#4281029)
I thought Obama had admitted long ago to using cocaine as a teenager


That's what I recall

Pushing would of course be a different story,

yes, yes it would...

Radaronline also claims that Allred's "October Surprise" is the attempt to unseal testimony given by Romney in an old case- apparently it's in a Probate/Family court-

digging around I've seen sites that claim it's a "family court matter" than involved Romney and others that it's a probate court matter- either way I suspect that this may involve the gross invasion of someone's privacy by the media (Of course I couldn't care less about Romney's or Obama's privacy at this point)
   4360. Lassus Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4281031)
Much the same for Bush's second inauguration, DC, 2004...

I hooked up with a girl at whatever 1989 Inaugural Ball had Kid Creole and the Coconuts playing at it. Don't judge me - Kid Creole! Never went to another Inaugural Ball again - it would only suffer in comparison.
   4361. McCoy Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:28 PM (#4281034)
someone here was angered at Joe and struck out at Joe, not here in writing on this site, but somewhere else- something that is perhaps associated with Joe's livelihood- you want to post on a board where some other user may feel compelled to take a dispute "off the board" like that?

Then don't be a jerk and post with your real name.
   4362. McCoy Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4281036)
I think this stat is a little misleading from everything I've read. These aren't vote totals, but rather people with Democratic ballots have returned 365,000, and people with Republican ballots have returned 313,000.

I'm not sure how it is misleading when I've been talking about registered dems and reps requesting ballots or going to the booth early. Nowhere in my statement did I say that was a vote total.
   4363. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:36 PM (#4281040)
I thought Obama had admitted long ago to using cocaine as a teenager, although since I don't care whether he did I haven't followed the details.

Pushing would of course be a different story, not that I would care about that either.

What I'd expect the story to turn out to be:
18- or 19-year-old Barry Obama is in college. Enjoys some cocaine with a small group of friends. One of those friends later says, "Hey, Barry, can I buy a little cocaine off you?" Barry says, "Sure, I'll hook you up" and sells the friend some small amount of cocaine.
It sounds a lot worse when it's Barack Hussein the Pusherman, but dollars to powdered donuts the true story is a lot more like this, than like that.
   4364. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:37 PM (#4281042)

I hooked up with a girl at whatever 1989 Inaugural Ball had Kid Creole and the Coconuts playing at it. Don't judge me - Kid Creole!


Who could hate on Kid Creole? Even Endicott had to admit that he was dope.
   4365. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:39 PM (#4281045)
Then don't be a jerk and post with your real name.


I don't think anyone should be punished for posting whatever here. There is a tiny bit of funny that it would be the guy insisting those who publish under their real name have greater credibility (or whatever it was real name posters have - honestly I tuned out that sub-thread as much as I could) get hurt because he used his real name, but I am still against it. Not just because I like Joe and having him around (as annoying as it can be sometimes).
   4366. McCoy Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:42 PM (#4281049)
Got no issue with being against something but the whole "we've alerted the authorities of BTF about this and we don't know if we're going to delete Joe's page on wiki because we were alerted to his page by someone messing with Joe" is just people with the tiniest bit of imagined power going too far.
   4367. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:46 PM (#4281054)
What were the odds of Clinton declaring Martian law?
   4368. The District Attorney Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:48 PM (#4281056)
18- or 19-year-old Barry Obama is in college. Enjoys some cocaine with a small group of friends. One of those friends later says, "Hey, Barry, can I buy a little cocaine off you?" Barry says, "Sure, I'll hook you up" and sells the friend some small amount of cocaine.
It would have been interesting to see if such a story, if true, would have disqualified him had it broke prior to 2008. I suspect yes if it was cocaine, no if it was pot. (I certainly don't think being black would help in terms of fighting "drug dealer" storylines.)

Anyway, I agree that even if that were true (which of course we have zero particular reason to believe), pretty much everyone has already formed their opinion of Obama by now and will issue a pass or condemnation accordingly. Also, Trump has beclowned himself so thoroughly that Obama could have been Tony Montana North and I don't think anyone would believe Trump if he proved it.
   4369. zonk Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:53 PM (#4281060)
I wonder if it's the same college classmate that says he and Obama traveled to Mars as part of a secret CIA teleportation program.

   4370. spike Posted: October 23, 2012 at 06:54 PM (#4281062)
An investor/CNBC personality claims Trump has some divorce papers the Obamas drew up in 2000 but did not execute. link

Pretty sure that would just about seal the deal.
   4371. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:00 PM (#4281063)
It would have been interesting to see if such a story, if true, would have disqualified him had it broke prior to 2008. I suspect yes if it was cocaine, no if it was pot. (I certainly don't think being black would help in terms of fighting "drug dealer" storylines.)

Again, the guy already said (before 2008) he tried cocaine and not only tried pot, HE INHALED ("That was kind of the point" is one of my favorite things he's ever said).
Obama voters not only don't care, they see no dissonance whatsoever between the President's behavior and his continuation & expansion of the War on (some) Drugs.
   4372. BDC Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:01 PM (#4281064)
This is what I never got about the Bush allegations in 2004. In 2000 they would have hurt him

IIRC, there was a last-minute drunk-driving story about W in 2000, but it didn't deflect his momentum very much. Nor should it have; I will sound like an idiot if history reveals that 43 was soused throughout his Presidency, but the official version, unchallenged except by imaginary tabloid stories, is that he's a sobered alcoholic (as was his predecessor as Governor, Ann Richards). Good for him.
   4373. GregD Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:03 PM (#4281065)
I can't imagine unfiled divorce papers would have any impact whatever unless it had an allegation of cruelty or infidelity
   4374. BDC Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:03 PM (#4281066)
Obama voters not only don't care, they see no dissonance whatsoever between the President's behavior and his continuation & expansion of the War on (some) Drugs

I don't care as long as he's clean now (see #4372), and dissonance or not, I think that the War on Drugs is a terrible idea, and that Obama deserves plentiful criticism for it. But I voted for Obama because I can't imagine Mitt Romney having a saner position on the Drug War.
   4375. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:05 PM (#4281067)
Romney campaign announces endorsement from Todd Helton.
   4376. SteveF Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:09 PM (#4281069)
or whatever it was real name posters have


The argument is usually about tone and civility. You'll tend to make your points in a more civil manner if you cannot post anonymously.

In my experience, civility tends to be contagious. If you respond to people being uncivil to you in a civil fashion, they tend to alter their approach out of embarrassment/reciprocity unless they are genuinely trolling.
   4377. tshipman Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:13 PM (#4281075)
Obama voters not only don't care, they see no dissonance whatsoever between the President's behavior and his continuation & expansion of the War on (some) Drugs.


Oh, I see the dissonance, I just don't really care. The medical marijuana industry is problematic because what people really want is legalization, and MM is used as a weird backdoor. All the guys on the street corner smoking pot have a card. It's well-known who you can go to in order to get one. The medicinal marijuana groups don't really care about medicinal. If they did, they'd police it more carefully.

Now, I think it's a damn shame that the feds have ratcheted up enforcement. However, the fact that people can't smoke pot in peace is really not high on my list of concerns.

I can't imagine unfiled divorce papers would have any impact whatever unless it had an allegation of cruelty or infidelity


Unless it was truly egregious, I don't think people would care one way or another. The Obamas are a good couple. Lots of good couples go through rough patches, especially when money is tight. Not a big deal.
   4378. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:14 PM (#4281076)
IIRC, there was a last-minute drunk-driving story about W in 2000, but it didn't deflect his momentum very much.
The Sunday night before the 2000 election, I was at a Bush rally in Orlando where a well-meaning woman had a supportive sign that used, in the same half-clever way college kids use E S P N, D U I. A campaign operative told her, politely, to put the sign away.
   4379. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:14 PM (#4281077)
In my experience, civility tends to be contagious.


So long as the BBTF snark stays. It is half the reason I come here.
   4380. spike Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4281079)
I can't imagine unfiled divorce papers would have any impact whatever unless it had an allegation of cruelty or infidelity

I agree - I wish we had a sarcasm tag.
   4381. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:19 PM (#4281080)
Unless it was truly egregious, I don't think people would care one way or another.
If it's not egregious, I could see that backfiring in Obama's favor.
   4382. spike Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:22 PM (#4281082)
That was the implication I was making by "seal the deal". I need to work on my delivery.
   4383. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:23 PM (#4281083)
An investor/CNBC personality claims Trump has some divorce papers the Obamas drew up in 2000 but did not execute. link

Pretty sure that would just about seal the deal.


I suspect that if anyone is worried about Trump pulling crap now, it's Romneys' people who are more worried than Obama's, Trump may actually engender sympathy for Obama or feed the perception that rightwingers are batshit insane
   4384. SteveF Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:23 PM (#4281084)
I agree - I wish we had a sarcasm tag.


Or people could have just assumed you're not a moron.
   4385. GregD Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:28 PM (#4281086)
That was the implication I was making by "seal the deal". I need to work on my delivery.
my bad! Poor reading on my part. Obvious in retrospect.
   4386. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:31 PM (#4281088)
Sully, still freaking:
(Obama) threw this election away. But even after that act of self-immolation, the race is still basically tied, with a tiny Obama advantage in the Electoral College. That tells me there may be more underlying strength in Obama's position than I am currently emotionally capable of accepting.
   4387. The District Attorney Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:34 PM (#4281091)
I can't imagine unfiled divorce papers would have any impact whatever unless it had an allegation of cruelty or infidelity
"Cruelty" like he hit her??? Then he'd lose.

Infidelity, well, I do think a lot of people would feel personally devastated by that news. But Clinton's sky-high approval ratings in the aftermath of Monicagate would suggest that the public wouldn't factor it in. The election figures to be close enough, though, that I couldn't entirely rule out a meaningful effect. It would in fact be a last-minute surprise, so the public might not have reached the "forgiveness" stage yet at election time... and I think people currently view Obama as having more personal integrity than they did Clinton pre-Monica. Say more black women and/or women in general than expected decide to stay home on Election Day; that would in fact hurt Obama.

Simply not getting along (and the article says it was Michelle filing because she didn't like Barack's House run in 2000) would obviously be nothing.

Ehh, I'm totally falling into Trump's trap here by giving air time to all these crazy scenarios with no basis in fact. Is this how word got around that Jeff Bagwell used steroids? (And are we still trying to do it for Jack Morris?)
   4388. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:35 PM (#4281092)
   4389. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:36 PM (#4281093)
Is this how word got around that Jeff Bagwell used steroids?
Pass.
   4390. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 23, 2012 at 07:56 PM (#4281102)
   4391. The District Attorney Posted: October 23, 2012 at 08:25 PM (#4281109)
Meanwhile, Trevor Bauer's anti-Obama tweets get the attention of FOX Sports Arizona.
I'm glad the team is unconcerned. Unless he's posting stuff that is utterly beyond the pale like Ann Coulter recently did, there's no reason for them to react to his political stances.

The third party debate is coming up at 9 PM EST! I think it's on CSPAN, and of course the world-renowned Ora TV.

Participants are the Libertarian Party's Gary Johnson, the Justice Party's Rocky Anderson, the Green Party's Jill Stein, and the Constitution Party's Virgil Goode. I guess the Green Party has split, as Ralph Nader endorses Anderson, while Noam Chomsky endorses Stein. Anderson seems to me like the better alternative of the two. He has held an actual meaningful government post for one thing (mayor of Salt Lake City), and his platform is single-payer health care, campaign finance regulation, abolishing corporate personhood, ending the War on Drugs, and all that other green stuff.

Moderated by Larry King, who probably doesn't know anything and even when he does likes to act like he doesn't... always a potent combination. Yes, Larry King has a "show" on "Ora TV". Apparently that is a thing.
   4392. GregD Posted: October 23, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4281112)
I hope Larry asks them about Sandy Koufax
   4393. Steve Treder Posted: October 23, 2012 at 08:43 PM (#4281119)
Yes, Larry King has a "show" on "Ora TV". Apparently that is a thing.

God help us all.
   4394. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 08:52 PM (#4281123)
The third party debate is coming up at 9 PM EST! I think it's on CSPAN, and of course the world-renowned Ora TV.

It is at times like this that I really miss Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf.
   4395. robinred Posted: October 23, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4281125)
Obama voters not only don't care, they see no dissonance whatsoever between the President's behavior and his continuation & expansion of the War on (some) Drugs.


Heh.
   4396. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: October 23, 2012 at 09:13 PM (#4281132)
I suspect that if anyone is worried about Trump pulling crap now, it's Romneys' people who are more worried than Obama's, Trump may actually engender sympathy for Obama or feed the perception that rightwingers are batshit insane


Romney's people absolutely want Trump to shut up. With a month to the election, the last thing they need is for people going off on their own. I imagine their preferred scenario would be for Trump to bring (whatever he's got) directly to them, and then they'd decide how to deploy it. But in Trump's hands, most of the message is going to be "HEY! LOOKIT ME!"

Even if he's got something real, it's going to get tainted by coming out of Donald Trump's mouth.
   4397. Tilden Katz Posted: October 23, 2012 at 09:22 PM (#4281140)
Why did Romney ever even get in bed with Trump?
   4398. Lassus Posted: October 23, 2012 at 09:27 PM (#4281143)
Yes, Larry King has a "show" on "Ora TV". Apparently that is a thing.

I swear to god I read this as "Larry King has a show on Ova TV" and almost had some kind of twitchy stroke.
   4399. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 23, 2012 at 09:32 PM (#4281146)
Why did Romney ever even get in bed with Trump?


Why did Romney get in bed with any of the crazy wingers he got in bed with this campaign? He thought he'd be able to get out of bed later without suffering any serious repercussions. Duh.
   4400. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 23, 2012 at 09:43 PM (#4281150)
Since when is Romney in bed with Trump? Has he done more than give an endorsement and perhaps attend a fundraiser? Expecting Romney to muzzle Trump is asking a lot. Haven't heard anyone suggesting Trump is getting a Cabinet job (Secretary of Hotels?).
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