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Tuesday, October 02, 2012

OTP: October 2012-THE RACE: As Candidates Prep, Attention in DC split between politics and baseball

While President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney bone up in Nevada and Colorado for Wednesday’s opening debate, back in the nation’s capital attention is split between the hard-fought presidential race and baseball playoffs.

The Nationals won the first division baseball championship for a Washington team since 1933 by clinching the National League East race Monday night.

Washington, D.C., has the only ballpark where so many Cabinet members, politicians and other luminaries routinely gather and where fans now are openly rooting for a particular president — one who served more than a century ago, Theodore Roosevelt.

“Let Teddy Win” banners and buttons are everywhere. Fans like 2008 GOP presidential nominee Sen. John McCain of Arizona say it’s time for Roosevelt’s 500-plus losing streak to end.

[...]

“Teddy, you are the victim of a vast left-wing conspiracy by the commie pinko libs in this town,” McCain said in a video played in the stadium Monday night. “But you can overcome that.”

The October 2012 “OT: Politics” thread starts ... now.

Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 02, 2012 at 02:14 PM | 6119 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nationals, politics

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   5701. McCoy Posted: October 30, 2012 at 03:32 PM (#4288536)
flip
   5702. McCoy Posted: October 30, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4288538)
No kidding. It really sucks for Ambassador Stevens and the guys who tried to save his life that they weren't attacked a few weeks later. If it had happened now, maybe Obama would have cared a little more and maybe they'd still be alive.

Yes, if only George Bush was still president.
   5703. Poulanc Posted: October 30, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4288541)
I just watched the ABC clip where Chris thanked Obama. It lasted like 15 seconds and seems pretty typical fair of the kind where a smaller government body (yes I know) thanks a larger government body for their assistance.

I'm sure because of the election it is and will be blown up many times over but there really is no fire behind the smoke.


There's a video from Fox News that's out there where it appears that the Fox guys try to bring Romney into the discussion and Christie brushes it aside pretty harshly.

But I agree - this is what I would expect my elected representative to say in the same situation.
   5704. zonk Posted: October 30, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4288542)
I just watched the ABC clip where Chris thanked Obama. It lasted like 15 seconds and seems pretty typical fair of the kind where a smaller government body (yes I know) thanks a larger government body for their assistance.

I'm sure because of the election it is and will be blown up many times over but there really is no fire behind the smoke.


Jon Chait has an article up -- Why Democrats are Right to Politicize Sandy - and as alluded above/last page -- I think he's right.

One party finds no part of government - except the DoD's procurement budget, I guess, which even at a size as large as the next 15 nations combined must be bigger -- that isn't too big to cut.

FEMA was targeted for cuts under Ryan's budget and it was also spoken of as being bound for the knife by Romney in the primaries.

We have one party that longs for the days of the Articles of Confederation. A monster storm that whacks nearly the entire eastern seaboard seems to be precisely what we might imagine god might deliver if s/he had a rooting interest in that debate (and yes, that's tongue-in-cheek... I'm not doing a bizarro Falwell fer reals).

FEMA's annual budget is about 1/10 of the cost of a new class of navy warships, and roughly 1/8 the cost of the Osprey program, etc. Roughly 20 fewer F-22 raptors would fund FEMA.

Ultimately, this is about budget priorities... no - I don't expect the Obama campaign to be making this point today, or even tomorrow -- but it's political malpractice not to make sure someone isn't making the point.
   5705. zonk Posted: October 30, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4288543)

No kidding. It really sucks for Ambassador Stevens and the guys who tried to save his life that they weren't attacked a few weeks later. If it had happened now, maybe Obama would have cared a little more and maybe they'd still be alive.


Just out of curiosity, how would that have worked exactly... Obama parachuting in into Benghazi on a classified FTL-enabled plane with Snakeyes, Scarlett, Gung-ho, and the rest of the secret G.I. Joe team to foil Destro's attack?

   5706. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: October 30, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4288544)
Now, there's no guarantee that Time has correctly surveyed the Ohio electorate, but they have not made the basic methodological error you've claimed. They are properly separating likely voters who have yet to vote (whom they survey as tied) from people who have voted already (whom they survey as significantly tilted to Obama).
There simply isn't enough information in the Time article to conclude they've analyzed the consequences of early voting correctly. I realize 'what isn't said' is a sticky wicket, but what -was- said, that Obama seems to be up by 5 in Ohio, ought to give us pause.

Ultimately, this is about budget priorities... no - I don't expect the Obama campaign to be making this point today, or even tomorrow -- but it's political malpractice not to make sure someone isn't making the point.
This bore repeating. FEMA, decently run, is a swell, 'bang for your buck' program that can't sanely be privatized.
   5707. zonk Posted: October 30, 2012 at 03:45 PM (#4288546)
Oh - and BTW - for the record, I really couldn't care less if Romney keeps right on campaigning...

It would be nice, however, if he responded to the questions he got peppered with at his rally -- excuse, me, 'relief event' -- regarding his previous statements to cut FEMA funding or the planned cuts that were in his running mate's budget. Just seems like a pertinent topic...
   5708. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 30, 2012 at 03:47 PM (#4288547)
Hey, if this is considered "politicizing", then it's a Republican who's done it. Blame him, not the Democrats.


No, the Republican said what everyone expected him to say and what basic decency and courtesy required him to say. But now Dems are acting as if Christie endorsed Obama over Romney. It's absurd.

If the shoe fits, wear it proudly. Perhaps Romney can also get Christie to endorse his call for the abolition of FEMA. Perhaps Romney should just tell Christie that he's being unprincipled in accepting help from The Enemy. Or maybe Romney may be having second thoughts about letting his options be controlled by Grover Norquist and the Tea Party.
   5709. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: October 30, 2012 at 03:47 PM (#4288548)
Just out of curiosity, how would that have worked exactly... Obama parachuting in into Benghazi on a classified FTL-enabled plane with Snakeyes, Scarlett, Gung-ho, and the rest of the secret G.I. Joe team to foil Destro's attack?


Close but you're operating under old assumptions. It would be more like this.
   5710. McCoy Posted: October 30, 2012 at 03:48 PM (#4288550)
There simply isn't enough information in the Time article to conclude they've analyzed the consequences of early voting correctly. I realize 'what isn't said' is a sticky wicket, but what -was- said, that Obama seems to be up by 5 in Ohio, ought to give us pause.

Well, all polling should give us pause but to focus on that is goal post shifting so in the end it simply looks like a biased observer simply looking for reasons to discount things they do not wish to hear or see.

By all account, and not just the Times' poll, early voting is trending by a good deal towards Obama. We also know that in 2008 early voting heavily favored Obama so early voting in 2012 isn't coming out of nowhere. So if the state is close, and it is, and the early voting is trending a good deal towards Obama then a 2 to 5 point victory in Ohio isn't something that should be unexpected and indeed the polls overall say that Obama should win the state by 2 points or more.
   5711. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:00 PM (#4288560)
KETTERING, Ohio – Mitt Romney repeatedly ignored questions about his position on federal funding for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) at an event for storm victims Tuesday.

After speaking briefly to supporters and gathering donations Romney, Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) and some campaign staffers headed outside into the cold, rainy afternoon and proceeded to load up a yellow Penske truck with supplies, canned goods and other donated items.

“Governor, are you going to see some storm damage?” one reporter asked.

Several others again asked Romney whether he would eliminate FEMA.

“Governor, you’ve been asked 14 times. Why are you refusing to answer the question?” one asked.

Romney ignored the reporters’ queries and continued loading up the truck. Earlier, during the event, he ignored similar queries.

During a 2011 primary debate, Romney supported the idea of curtailing federal disaster response and letting states and the private sector take on a bigger role.

“Every time you have an occasion to take something from the federal government and send it back to the states, that’s the right direction,” he said. “And if you can go even further and send it back to the private sector, that’s even better.”
   5712. zonk Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4288568)
BTW -

The Hill has more on heckuva job Brownie's comments -- a link to a local CO reporter's blog (Brownie, for reasons beyond my comprehension, has a talk radio show in CO)...

Some things just absolutely boggle my mind. I wonder if it's possible for the Obama campaign to use a radio 'ad buy' to in effect just have Brownie's show broadcast in 60 second chunks nationwide throughout the next week...
   5713. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4288569)
Just out of curiosity, how would that have worked exactly... Obama parachuting in into Benghazi on a classified FTL-enabled plane with Snakeyes, Scarlett, Gung-ho, and the rest of the secret G.I. Joe team to foil Destro's attack?


Let's cut to the chase of this one, okay.

Joey has had a couple of weeks to lick his wounds and surly up over the epic fail of "Natitude" this post-season.

Joey is back in the political thread throwing #### like an angry monkey because he knows which ways the winds are blowing for this election.
   5714. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4288572)
The Hill has more on heckuva job Brownie's comments -- a link to a local CO reporter's blog (Brownie, for reasons beyond my comprehension, has a talk radio show in CO)...


I'm going to just randomly guess and say it's based out of Colorado Springs?
   5715. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4288573)
It would be nice, however, if he responded to the questions he got peppered with at his rally -- excuse, me, 'relief event' -- regarding his previous statements to cut FEMA funding or the planned cuts that were in his running mate's budget. Just seems like a pertinent topic...

Yes, we all know how accessible Obama and Biden have been to hard-hitting reporters this year. Give us a break.
   5716. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4288575)

No, the Republican said what everyone expected him to say and what basic decency and courtesy required him to say. But now Dems are acting as if Christie endorsed Obama over Romney.


In the modern Republican party, saying something nice about Obama is considered tantamount to endorsing him.
   5717. zonk Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4288579)

In the modern Republican party, saying something nice about Obama is considered tantamount to endorsing him.


Hell, Dick Lugar lost a primary to a whackjob simply because he didn't say enough bad things about Obama...
   5718. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:09 PM (#4288580)
Joey is back in the political thread throwing #### like an angry monkey because he knows which ways the winds are blowing for this election.

If a right-winger said this, we'd be told it was a racist, pro-hurricane dog whistle.
   5719. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:09 PM (#4288582)
for the record, I really couldn't care less if Romney keeps right on campaigning


Agreed. I think politics is about (gasp) the real world and solving problems therein. When Government fails the opponents of Government should be able to point it out and when it succeeds similarly the proponents should be able to do likewise. Of course it can be taken much much to far).
   5720. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:10 PM (#4288583)
Christie thanked Obama and FEMA for a couple of reasons:

1. FEMA has been pretty damned awesome in this disaster, so far. To quote someone I read somewhere today, the guy that decided to shut down power to Lower Manhattan before the flood killed it all is a friggin' genius.

2. Chris Christie is the governor of a state that just got destroyed by a natural disaster. He's going to honestly reach out to anyone who helps him and his state.

3. Christie has never much liked the GOP base and wouldn't be too terribly interested in catering to them now.

4. Politics ends at the water's edge, they say. (Yeah, I'm aware of how bad of taste that one was.)
   5721. zonk Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:12 PM (#4288584)
It would be nice, however, if he responded to the questions he got peppered with at his rally -- excuse, me, 'relief event' -- regarding his previous statements to cut FEMA funding or the planned cuts that were in his running mate's budget. Just seems like a pertinent topic...


Yes, we all know how accessible Obama and Biden have been to hard-hitting reporters this year. Give us a break.


Exactly what area of policy or ideology is unanswered?

Romney has been disavowing positions he's been yammering about for 5 years at a rate of one per day -- but his previous statements on cutting FEMA funding, sourcing it to the states, or "even better", to the private sector are unlike abortion, Medicare, foreign policy and everything else under the sun... So, you know, I'm pretty sure I and the rest of the nation understand where FEMA falls in relation to budget priorities and the like from Team blue...

Have we finally found a Romney primary position that is still operable?
   5722. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:14 PM (#4288587)
Exactly what area of policy or ideology is unanswered?

For starters, there seems to be a question or two unanswered with regards to Benghazi.
   5723. zonk Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:15 PM (#4288589)

For starters, there seems to be a question or two unanswered with regards to Benghazi.


You're confused as to whether the Obama administration is anti-attacks on diplomats?
   5724. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:16 PM (#4288590)
Folks are spinning pretty hard if they're contending Sandy is going to affect the election in any way other than causing a logistical challenge in the hardest hit areas. New Hampshire could still take a hit, I guess, but there doesn't appear to be any swing state impact yet. Christie' comments aren't going to move any voters. Folks trying this hard to make something out of nothing might not actually be ahead in the election, IMHO.
   5725. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:19 PM (#4288595)
Folks are spinning pretty hard if they're contending Sandy is going to affect the election in any way other than causing a logistical challenge in the hardest hit areas. New Hampshire could still take a hit, I guess, but there doesn't appear to be any swing state impact yet. Christie' comments aren't going to move any voters. Folks trying this hard to make something out of nothing might not actually be ahead in the election, IMHO.
Need a ruling: Is this concern trolling or whistling past the graveyard?
   5726. zonk Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4288596)
Folks are spinning pretty hard if they're contending Sandy is going to affect the election in any way other than causing a logistical challenge in the hardest hit areas. New Hampshire could still take a hit, I guess, but there doesn't appear to be any swing state impact yet. Christie' comments aren't going to move any voters. Folks trying this hard to make something out of nothing might not actually be ahead in the election, IMHO.

Need a ruling: Is this concern trolling or whistling past the graveyard?


Intentional Grounding...

We've busted the officials union and we're using replacement refs...
   5727. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4288597)
You're confused as to whether the Obama administration is anti-attacks on diplomats?

You're confused as to Romney's comments about having the states be more responsible for their own problems?
   5728. Joey B. Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:22 PM (#4288598)
Joey is back in the political thread throwing #### like an angry monkey because he knows which ways the winds are blowing for this election.

Yep, that's right: Obama is a week away from getting his sorry, incompetent, lying ass kicked out of office.
   5729. zonk Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4288601)
You're confused as to whether the Obama administration is anti-attacks on diplomats?


You're confused as to Romney's comments about having the states be more responsible for their own problems?


Is that a no?
   5730. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:27 PM (#4288606)
“Every time you have an occasion to take something from the federal government and send it back to the states, that’s the right direction,” he said. “And if you can go even further and send it back to the private sector, that’s even better.”
These activist government chaps give me a headache. 'Send it back' to the private sector? When in US history once infrastructure became complex and urban areas became large was that actually anything close to the best idea?

There are all sorts of good reasons to keep government as small as reasonably possible. The myth of private sector efficiency isn't a compelling one of them.

Yep, that's right: Obama is a week away from getting his sorry, incompetent, lying ass kicked out of office.
Er, given his possible replacement I'm not sure why you find the idea of Obama lying worthy of note.
   5731. Tripon Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:28 PM (#4288608)
Your October suprise is Disney buying Lucasfilm for $4.05 billion and saying that Star Wars 7 is coming out in 2015.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/disney-says-it-is-buying-star-wars-maker-lucasfilm-for-405-billion-from-george-lucas/2012/10/30/484eb5ae-22cc-11e2-92f8-7f9c4daf276a_story.html
   5732. zonk Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4288612)
You're confused as to Romney's comments about having the states be more responsible for their own problems?


And just out of curiosity, since you don't seem to be all that geographically aware of how easily, say... New York and New Jersey tend to bleed into each other...

Is New York or New Jersey responsible for the Holland tunnel? Does NY just clear the NY section and sandbag it at the border until NJ can get its side cleared? And if a house in NJ floats out to sea, does it become NY's problem if it drifts a certain amount? If the AC boardwalk washes up on Delaware's shore - does it becomes Delaware's responsibility to deal with? Or - does New Jersey need to send personnel to clean it up? If a motorist happens to become stranded in flood waters right on the state line, do they flip a coin over who's responsible for the rescue? If one state has more helicopters than it does people to rescue, while another has more people to rescue than it does helicopters -- what is the mechanism to get the resources from one state to the other?

I guess what I'm asking, Joe... since disasters like this don't tend to pay attention to imaginary lines, can you perhaps explain why it wouldn't be more efficient to have something like an overarching authority -- let's call it a "federal authority"... or perhaps a federal emergency management agency handle such things?
   5733. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4288613)
Folks are spinning pretty hard if they're contending Sandy is going to affect the election in any way other than causing a logistical challenge in the hardest hit areas.
What's unthinkable is that a comedically bad foul up by FEMA couldn't cost Obama the election. What percent of Nate Silver's (or anyone's, but his methods are best) scenarios put the election a dozen EC votes apart; in other words, ten thousand votes in a state or two?

p.s.--McCoy guy--It's the method, not the suggested outcome that bothered me. Hey, I'd love to see Obama by 5 in OH. That suggests a 50%+ popular vote, and a 300+ EC vote. It won't give him any more legitimacy to the GOP, but it might help stiffen his spine for the various fights ahead.

I do find the fear that Obama, with no re-election to worry about, will come out of his Muslim closet pretty funny. A more stiff, predictable, hawkish Democrat would be hard to find.
   5734. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:38 PM (#4288617)
Yep, that's right: Obama is a week away from getting his sorry, incompetent, lying ass kicked out of office.


That's nothing new, he's been a week away from being impeached for being a Kenyan Marxist Communist racist Muslim who hates America since he was elected. Don't you read World Net Daily?
   5735. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:38 PM (#4288618)
And just out of curiosity, since you don't seem to be all that geographically aware of how easily, say... New York and New Jersey tend to bleed into each other...

With the exception of Alaska and Hawaii, all the states "bleed into each other."

Is New York or New Jersey responsible for the Holland tunnel? Does NY just clear the NY section and sandbag it at the border until NJ can get its side cleared? And if a house in NJ floats out to sea, does it become NY's problem if it drifts a certain amount?

I'm sure you've heard of the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey.

If a motorist happens to become stranded in flood waters right on the state line, do they flip a coin over who's responsible for the rescue?

Since when does FEMA act as first responders? Adjoining states, adjoining cities, adjoining counties were cooperating on things like this 24/7/365 since long before FEMA.

I guess what I'm asking, Joe... since disasters like this don't tend to pay attention to imaginary lines, can you perhaps explain why it wouldn't be more efficient to have something like an overarching authority -- let's call it a "federal authority"... or perhaps a federal emergency management agency handle such things?

There are a thousand things that "don't pay attention to imaginary lines," and yet somehow they get handled without a federal agency being involved.

Am I arguing for a complete dismantling of FEMA? No. Have the states come to rely far too much on FEMA? Yes.
   5736. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:42 PM (#4288620)
Is there a huge bet between a few of the more notable primates here that would really make the result of this election primate newsworthy? If Obama wins, for instance, does Joe Kehoskie have to do an internship working for Nate Silver? If Romney wins, does Sam have to keep a fan blog on this site about the Nationals? The stakes don't seem high enough right now.
   5737. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4288625)
FEMA provides money, training, a bit of advice, and, on occasion, some supplies. It's not going to clean up the Holland Tunnel. Disaster relief is overwhelmingly a state & local government chore.

Since the election is now all about Sandy, I assume that if Obama loses Ohio (and hence the election), it could only be because many citizens of that state were unable to cast their ballots because they were too busy making sandwiches for improvident NYC residents.
   5738. zonk Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4288629)
Since when does FEMA act as first responders? Adjoining states, adjoining cities, adjoining counties were cooperating on things like this 24/7/365 since long before FEMA.


And not doing it very well... I'd be happy to give you a history lesson various natural disasters throughout the nation's history and the death tolls associated therein, but I'm afraid I have to step away for a bit...
   5739. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4288630)

No kidding. It really sucks for Ambassador Stevens and the guys who tried to save his life that they weren't attacked a few weeks later. If it had happened now, maybe Obama would have cared a little more and maybe they'd still be alive.


Huh? I don't think there was any point where anyone could have saved those lives.
Unless, of course, you think Obama is Superman, and he could have heard the attack with his super-hearing and flown over there in less than a few seconds to stop the attack as it happened.

I mean, I like Obama, but I don't think he's as powerful as you make him out to be...

It would be an outrage for Romney to politicize Sandy in any way, but it's perfectly acceptable and smart politics for Obama & Co. to do the same.


I haven't had a chance to watch the news, but have some Obama surrogates/spokespeople actually come out and said that "Christie loves Obama"? Or is it just left-leaning folk on this website poking fun at the right-leaning folk on this website?

   5740. Gaelan Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:52 PM (#4288631)
There are all sorts of good reasons to keep government as small as reasonably possible. The myth of private sector efficiency isn't a compelling one of them.


QFT. Conservatives undermine the credibility of their argument with their fetishization of "private" activity. The private sector is neither particularly private, nor particularly efficient, nor particularly conservative. Indeed, in a general sense the private activity of the market that conservatives consistently defend radically erodes the fundamental basis of conservative values.
   5741. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:52 PM (#4288632)
Since the election is now all about Sandy...
Please tell us who is stating this.
   5742. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:52 PM (#4288633)
The stakes don't seem high enough right now.


I would be willing to change my handle (for a few months) to "Bitter Mouse knows Joe K was right" if Romney wins and if Joe K is willing to do the flipside :)

I would be willing to buy drinks and such in person, but since I live on the frozen tundra of Montana* there is no one near me.

* I really live in Minnesota, and it is not really tundra, but is flyover land.
   5743. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:52 PM (#4288634)
Is New York or New Jersey responsible for the Holland tunnel? Does NY just clear the NY section and sandbag it at the border until NJ can get its side cleared? And if a house in NJ floats out to sea, does it become NY's problem if it drifts a certain amount? If the AC boardwalk washes up on Delaware's shore - does it becomes Delaware's responsibility to deal with? Or - does New Jersey need to send personnel to clean it up? If a motorist happens to become stranded in flood waters right on the state line, do they flip a coin over who's responsible for the rescue? If one state has more helicopters than it does people to rescue, while another has more people to rescue than it does helicopters -- what is the mechanism to get the resources from one state to the other?


This was my next question as well. There's nothing the nation needs more right now than NYPD and Jersey state police pissing on each other over jurisdiction and responsibility.
   5744. JL Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:53 PM (#4288635)
I am more than a little surprised at those thinking that Sandy and the aftermath will have no effect. If that is the case, then nothing the Obama or Romney are doing on the campaign trail will have an effect, so why are they out there.

I think the reality is that in an election this close, little things could very well make the difference. Having Christie speak well of him probably helps Obama with a few voters (certainly does not hurt). I don't know if it will make a difference, but as one television ad recently reminded me, sometimes all it takes is 538 extra votes.
   5745. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4288637)
Or is it just left-leaning folk on this website poking fun at the right-leaning folk on this website?


Hey I was just surprised CC did it, I was not poking fun or assuming it really meant anything.
   5746. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:55 PM (#4288639)
I haven't had a chance to watch the news, but have some Obama surrogates/spokespeople actually come out and said that "Christie loves Obama"? Or is it just left-leaning folk on this website poking fun at the right-leaning folk on this website?


It's just us. No one from the Obama campaign has said anything that I've seen. The outrage from the RW nutters here seems to be "OMG you guys mentioned that Christie bro-hugged Obama!" and "OMG, the evil librul media asked Romney about FEMA today, for no good reason at all!!!"

Because, well, they're nutters. It's what they do.
   5747. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4288643)
Can't remember where I read it, but I agree with the comment that Sandy and the aftermath will be The Story for the next few days, perhaps a week, and so the election's status as of Monday morning (pre-landfall) will be what it is on or near Election Day.
   5748. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4288644)
I would be willing to change my handle (for a few months) to "Bitter Mouse knows Joe K was right" if Romney wins and if Joe K is willing to do the flipside :)


Oooh. I like that one.
   5749. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4288645)
And not doing it very well... I'd be happy to give you a history lesson various natural disasters throughout the nation's history and the death tolls associated therein, but I'm afraid I have to step away for a bit...

In what ways did FEMA reduce the death toll of Hurricane Sandy that were unique to FEMA and couldn't have been accomplished by the relevant local agencies?

***
I haven't had a chance to watch the news, but have some Obama surrogates/spokespeople actually come out and said that "Christie loves Obama"? Or is it just left-leaning folk on this website poking fun at the right-leaning folk on this website?

It's getting some traction online. Politico, for example, has a headline claiming "Christie Heaps Praise on Obama," which is more than a little exaggerated.
   5750. McCoy Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4288650)
If Romney wins the election I'll un-ignore JoeK. If Obama wins JoeK goes away. Deal?
   5751. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:07 PM (#4288654)
Oooh. I like that one.


Thanks. I think through inaugeration would be more than enough time.
   5752. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:07 PM (#4288655)
The outrage from the RW . . .

Not outrage at all. Just pointing out that there is an almost laughable effort to spin everything Obama does as ensuring his election. Touring the flood zone with Chris Christie is not going to affect the election.
   5753. McCoy Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4288657)
Where is that spin?
   5754. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4288658)
I would be willing to change my handle (for a few months) to "Bitter Mouse knows Joe K was right" ...

Ha ha. Shouldn't you do that anyway, regardless of a Romney win or loss?
   5755. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4288659)
Can't remember where I read it, but I agree with the comment that Sandy and the aftermath will be The Story for the next few days, perhaps a week, and so the election's status as of Monday morning (pre-landfall) will be what it is on or near Election Day.


Yep. The only way the election narrative moves much between now and then is if the response is notably bungled by Obama's administration.
   5756. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4288660)
In what ways did FEMA reduce the death toll of Hurricane Sandy


No Bush appointees in charge.

"Please roll up the sleeves of your shirt, all shirts. Even the president rolled his sleeves to just below the elbow. In this [crisis] and on TV you just need to look more hard-working."

By "all shirts" I assume they mean short sleeves too. No word if a pack of cigarettes was to be placed in one rolled sleeve.
   5757. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4288661)
It's getting some traction online. Politico, for example, has a headline claiming "Christie Heaps Praise on Obama," which is more than a little exaggerated.


I suspect they are desperate to print anything political, since FrankenStorm has put a giant hole in their news cycle (How many stories about a storm and its influence on the election can they write? The pixels on the website are not going to fill themeselves).
   5758. GregD Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:10 PM (#4288662)
There's no inherent contradiction between the idea that nothing matters and the candidates are doing things. What are they going to do? Sit at home? I imagine they know the last minute-fly-around on Election Day has very very little impact but they do it anyway to keep the right images out there.
   5759. Greg K Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4288663)
I think, loser of the bet has to read through this thread and write up a detailed assessment, with specific examples, of each poster's take on the campaign and various polling aggregators.

That should be sufficient torture.
   5760. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4288664)
Ha ha. Shouldn't you do that anyway, regardless of a Romney win or loss?


Admiral Ackbar says hi.
   5761. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4288665)
If Romney wins the election I'll un-ignore JoeK.

This is almost enough to make me root for an Obama win.
   5762. Tilden Katz Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:14 PM (#4288666)
Can anyone think of a bureaucrat as woefully incompetent as Michael Brown? So bad that everyone on both side of the aisle instantly realized how ill-suited he was to the job?
   5763. GregD Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:15 PM (#4288668)
John Tower ended pretty much in disgrace even though he had a reasonable enough prior career. But a cabinet member is not maybe what yo mean by bureaucrat. Not many bureaucrats are known for anything.

Edited to add: Whoops! Forgot Tower was never confirmed!
   5764. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4288669)
Can anyone think of a bureaucrat as woefully incompetent as Michael Brown? So bad that everyone on both side of the aisle instantly realized how ill-suited he was to the job?

Ray Nagin? Kathleen Blanco?
   5765. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4288671)
Can anyone think of a bureaucrat as woefully incompetent as Michael Brown? So bad that everyone on both side of the aisle instantly realized how ill-suited he was to the job?


You don't think he did a heck of a job? In other words, you think our wartime Commander-In-Chief was a liar at a time when our braves troops were overseas protecting our freedoms against the terrorists who hate us and want to kill us?

Shame on you.
   5766. Tripon Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:19 PM (#4288674)
Nagin and Blanco can be somewhat excused as the nature of their jobs demands many different 'hats' so to speak and a person isn't simply going to be good at everything. Michael Brown's job was being the head of a diaster relief agency and he was terrible at it. That has to be worse.
   5767. spike Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:21 PM (#4288676)
I suspect they are desperate to print anything political, since FrankenStorm has put a giant hole in their news cycle

Hence the Donald deigning to extend his generous offer by 19 hours.
   5768. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:25 PM (#4288678)
Hence the Donald deigning to extend his generous offer by 19 hours.
Not to mention tying it in to hurricane relief. Because in no way does that appear to be exploiting a crisis for naked political gain.

The Donald has to be a Dem double-agent, right?
   5769. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:27 PM (#4288680)
Nagin and Blanco can be somewhat excused as the nature of their jobs demands many different 'hats' so to speak and a person isn't simply going to be good at everything.

If you're the mayor of a city located below sea level in a hurricane zone, or the governor of a state whose most important city is located below sea level in a hurricane zone, and you don't have anything resembling an adequate disaster plan, you're really, really bad at your job.

Michael Brown's job was being the head of a diaster relief agency and he was terrible at it. That has to be worse.

I'll grant that FEMA's response to Katrina wasn't the world's best, but just out of curiosity, what would a great response have looked like? After having their homes and businesses washed away, would NOLA residents have given FEMA a big thumbs-up if the MREs and bottled water had arrived in 24 hours instead of 36 hours? Was FEMA supposed to have 50,000 homes sitting, pre-built and furnished, in Kansas or New Mexico, just waiting for 200,000 storm evacuees to arrive?

Hurricane Katrina was a major natural disaster, people were miserable in the aftermath, and the recovery was going to take a long, long time. The best-possible response by FEMA wouldn't have improved people's moods (or lives) by more than one point on a 10-point scale.
   5770. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:27 PM (#4288681)
Yep. The only way the election narrative moves much between now and then is if the response is notably bungled by Obama's administration.
And Christie just inoculated Obama against charges of bungling. (Or Christie kicked Romney in the nuts - really, it's six of one, half-dozen of the other.)
   5771. DA Baracus Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:28 PM (#4288682)
The director of FEMA wanted to quit in the middle of a disaster. It doesn't get any worse than that.
   5772. JL Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:29 PM (#4288683)
5757 - but they need to keep the right image out there because they do realize it means something. Maybe not much, and most times not enough to swing the election, but it has some effect. Campaigns are the accumulation of all these little things (with a couple of big things typically thrown in as well).

Again, I think this election is close enough that even now some of these littles things may make the difference. Not saying they will but to simply dismiss this is silly (or wishful thinking).
   5773. Greg K Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:31 PM (#4288688)
John Tower ended pretty much in disgrace even though he had a reasonable enough prior career. But a cabinet member is not maybe what yo mean by bureaucrat. Not many bureaucrats are known for anything.

On a tangent.

I'm working on a Civilization-style game at the moment in which you rely heavily on "Great Men (or women)" to drive the action. Based on various national factors people periodically spring up who in RPG fashion have attributes which change as they "level up" then deteriorate as they approach death. They progress up various "class trees" which allow them to do things like make scientific breakthroughs, make innovations in engineering, create works of art, lead armies, manage tanneries, enact fiscal reforms, or interpret religious texts. Part of the levelling process is unlocking "perks" (I'm "borrowing" from several different games here). For instance one of the "Business" class perks is "Industrial Espionage" which allows you to steal a perk from another "Business" class person. Or "Mad Professor" which improves your rate of scientific breakthrough by 15% but doesn't allow you to participate in shared research bonuses (such as the "Royal Scientific Society" policy, which when enacted gives a scientist a 2% bonus to research for each other scientist operating in the same province.)

Anyway, the long and the short of it is, I need some more perks for the "Bureaucrat" class.
So far I've got
"Viceroy" - which confers a ruling bonus when operating in a colony province
"Clerking Staff" - which allows the bureaucrat to more narrowly focus on a policy he wants to enact
"Reformer" - reduces the amount of waste in provincial taxation
"Census Taken" - increases available manpower in the province by 5%

The actual rules of the game are in flux, so vague is the way to go. I'm really just looking for positive attributes to assign to bureaucrats...it's proving challenging!
   5774. spike Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:34 PM (#4288689)
CEO of Chrysler, and GM are publicly complaining about Romney's last ditch false ads in Ohio. Folks who feel compelled to use easily refutable falsehoods might not actually be ahead in the election, IMHO.
   5775. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4288691)
CEO of Chrysler, and GM are complaining about Romney's last ditch false ads in Ohio. Folks who feel compelled to use easily refutable falsehoods might not actually be ahead in the election, IMHO.


Oh you're one of those disreputable fact-checkers are you?
   5776. JL Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4288693)
5774- I was really surprised by those ads. Any one have any ideas on what the Romney folks were thinking? Was the goal as simple as the plain meaning, or was there something else there they were trying to get across. In view of the comments by Chrysler and GM, the ads seem dumb.
   5777. Tilden Katz Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4288694)
I'll grant that FEMA's response to Katrina wasn't the world's best, but just out of curiosity, what would a great response have looked like? After having their homes and businesses washed away, would NOLA residents have given FEMA a big thumbs-up if the MREs and bottled water had arrived in 24 hours instead of 36 hours? Was FEMA supposed to have 50,000 homes sitting, pre-built and furnished, in Kansas or New Mexico, just waiting for 200,000 storm evacuees to arrive?


FEMA had very little coordination with local and state officials and agencies. What coordination there was universally bungled, including sending relief truck away, and ordering that first-responders get approval from upper-level FEMA management. Brown himself has horribly inaccurate information about the situation on the ground in NOLA. Brown was far more concerned with how his masters in the Bush administration would come off then in actually doing his job, showing more concern about journalists not getting pictures of the devastation and the bodies then on fixing the devastation itself.

I am unsure if it was Brown who allowed Blackwater mercenaries to be deputized as law enforcement and given permission to use lethal force, or if that was another wing of the Bush administration.
   5778. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4288698)
Any one have any ideas on what the Romney folks were thinking?
Hail Mary.
   5779. Steve Treder Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:44 PM (#4288700)
What was the message of the ads? Does anyone have a link?
   5780. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4288701)
I'm really just looking for positive attributes to assign to bureaucrats...it's proving challenging!

Office space, above all else, perhaps even the oath to the Constitution, is of vital importance. There's always a major battle over who gets what, and people will go to the mattresses over relatively small issues. Window offices with a view are the big prizes in DC.
   5781. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4288702)
FEMA had very little coordination with local and state officials and agencies. What coordination there was universally bungled, including sending relief truck away, and ordering that first-responders get approval from upper-level FEMA management. Brown himself has horribly inaccurate information about the situation on the ground in NOLA. Brown was far more concerned with how his masters in the Bush administration would come off then in actually doing his job, showing more concern about journalists not getting pictures of the devastation and the bodies then on fixing the devastation itself.

But FEMA was never designed as a first-responder agency in the first place. FEMA is mostly a bunch of guys with clipboards who assess damage, help direct people to the right government agency(ies), etc. I don't want to debate Katrina for the hundredth time, but the whole notion of FEMA being some sort of Government Superhero was a false narrative in 2005 — one that was mostly if not entirely driven by a media that hated Bush — and it remains a false narrative in 2012, at least to the extent that people like Zonk believe FEMA somehow lowered Sandy's death toll in ways that the NYPD and FDNY couldn't have.
   5782. DA Baracus Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:47 PM (#4288705)
What was the message of the ads? Does anyone have a link?


That Chrysler was shipping jobs to China and implying that it was Obama's fault. Here it is.
   5783. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4288708)
And Christie just inoculated Obama against charges of bungling.


I think "inoculated" is a strong term. If next Monday morning people are sitting on rooftops begging for rescue, have no drinkable water, or are being eaten by giant Gambian rats, the admin will be held responsible.
   5784. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4288709)
Can anyone think of a bureaucrat as woefully incompetent as Michael Brown? So bad that everyone on both side of the aisle instantly realized how ill-suited he was to the job?


Harriet Miers?
   5785. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4288710)
I was really surprised by those ads. Any one have any ideas on what the Romney folks were thinking?


"The people are stupid and easily led." It worked well enough in the first debate.
   5786. Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:53 PM (#4288712)
Speaking of TV ads, Obama is buying TV time in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Minnesota.

Meanwhile, Romney is +1.0 in the ABC/WaPo tracker, +1.0 at NPR, +2.0 at Rasmussen, and holding at +5 at Gallup, which won't update until tomorrow at the earliest.
   5787. Greg K Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:53 PM (#4288713)
Office space, above all else, perhaps even the oath to the Constitution, is of vital importance. There's always a major battle over who gets what, and people will go to the mattresses over relatively small issues. Window offices with a view are the big prizes in DC.

For a long time I thought this was saying that the movie Office Space is a good place to go to find a good assessment of bureaucracy. While I now realize that's not what you were saying, I still think it's a good point.
   5788. spike Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:56 PM (#4288715)
Some christian charity courtesy of the NRO -

Does anyone else find it deliciously ironic that Hurricane Sandy has forced the “suspension” of the Obama campaign while the president play-acts the role of nurturer-in-chief in the aftermath of the storm? (...) Now, thanks to Sandy, Obama’s a prisoner in his own White House, reduced to the role of First Suit as he poses for photo-ops and feigns concern about the plight of Snooki and others along the Jersey Shore

Swell fella.
   5789. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:57 PM (#4288717)
Speaking of TV ads, Obama is buying TV time in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Minnesota.

Sending Bill Clinton to Minnesota, too. Suggests they are playing defense.
   5790. McCoy Posted: October 30, 2012 at 05:57 PM (#4288718)
5774- I was really surprised by those ads. Any one have any ideas on what the Romney folks were thinking? Was the goal as simple as the plain meaning, or was there something else there they were trying to get across. In view of the comments by Chrysler and GM, the ads seem dumb.

Seeds of doubt and it got the message out there nation wide. You put it out there and it gets picked up by the media and a certain segment of the population is going to believe it regardless of what the other side later says. It is a GOTV tactic and a way to control what is being discussed.
   5791. Steve Treder Posted: October 30, 2012 at 06:03 PM (#4288720)
# 5782, thanks.
   5792. McCoy Posted: October 30, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4288721)
Where is the President and VP supposed to go with a week left? Alabama? South Carolina? California? Kansas? They've got a ton of states locked up and so has Romney. At this point you focus your attention on keeping what you have in close races.
   5793. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 30, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4288725)
I think "inoculated" is a strong term. If next Monday morning people are sitting on rooftops begging for rescue, have no drinkable water, or are being eaten by giant Gambian rats, the admin will be held responsible.
Obviously. But a prominent Republican knocked down an anti-Obama line of attack on D+1, and that'll have some weight in setting the narrative.
   5794. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 30, 2012 at 06:13 PM (#4288727)
Where is the President and VP supposed to go with a week left? Alabama? South Carolina? California? Kansas? They've got a ton of states locked up and so has Romney. At this point you focus your attention on keeping what you have in close races.
Obama could pull a Bush/Rove '00 by declaring Texas is up for grabs.
   5795. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: October 30, 2012 at 06:18 PM (#4288729)
But FEMA was never designed as a first-responder agency in the first place. FEMA is mostly a bunch of guys with clipboards who assess damage, help direct people to the right government agency(ies), etc. I don't want to debate Katrina for the hundredth time, but the whole notion of FEMA being some sort of Government Superhero was a false narrative in 2005 — one that was mostly if not entirely driven by a media that hated Bush — and it remains a false narrative in 2012, at least to the extent that people like Zonk believe FEMA somehow lowered Sandy's death toll in ways that the NYPD and FDNY couldn't have.


I also recall FEMA doing things which were counter-productive. I remember a Jefferson Parish official on TV livid over something FEMA was doing which was hindering the locals efforts. Something about shutting down generators at government buildings. I remember him saying they are back on now, and guarded by Sheriff's deputies.
   5796. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: October 30, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4288730)
I have a gut feeling that Obama is going to win in a landslide.
   5797. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: October 30, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4288733)

Fifteen percent of registered voters nationwide have already cast their ballots in this year's election, according to Gallup Daily tracking for the week ending Oct. 28. That is up sharply from 5% a week earlier. The overall percentage either having already voted or planning to vote before Election Day has also increased -- to 33%, from roughly 25% in each of the prior three weeks.

...

Early voting this election year is most prevalent in the West, followed by the South and the Midwest, but is relatively light in the East. These differences largely reflect regional differences in state laws on absentee and mail voting, with two states -- Washington and Oregon -- not only encouraging early voting, but mandating it. One in four voters in the West say they have already voted, and another 30% plan to vote before Election Day. The combined 55% in the West contrasts with 40% in the South, 23% in the Midwest, and 9% in the East.

Early voting is also strongly related to age, with seniors the most likely to have already voted (26%), compared with 7% of voters aged 18 to 29.

Postgraduates are more likely than voters with no more than an undergraduate-level education to say they have voted or plan to vote early, while adults with no college experience are the least likely.

...
Romney currently leads Obama 52% to 45% among voters who say they have already cast their ballots. However, that is comparable to Romney's 51% to 46% lead among all likely voters in Gallup's Oct. 22-28 tracking polling. At the same time, the race is tied at 49% among those who have not yet voted but still intend to vote early, suggesting these voters could cause the race to tighten. However, Romney leads 51% to 45% among the much larger group of voters who plan to vote on Election Day, Nov. 6.


Gallup
   5798. McCoy Posted: October 30, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4288735)
FEMA at the time of Katrina was being turned into a terrorist response organization and had lost sight of its original goals. Sort of like MADD.
   5799. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 30, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4288736)
Where is the President and VP supposed to go with a week left?

Well, if Obama was actually doing as well as some of his partisans here have suggested, he'd be campaigning in more GOP-friendly states. Pennsylvania, Michigan & Minnesota are states that Obama thought he had locked up when this thread began.

Just my opinion, but I suspect the election will come down to Ohio, Virginia, Ohio, Colorado, Ohio, New Hampshire, Ohio, Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, Ohio & New Hampshire. And Ohio.
   5800. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 30, 2012 at 06:27 PM (#4288737)
MADD should be disbanded, and those modern-day Carry Nations can go back to harassing their own children for missing curfew.
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