Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, January 30, 2019

OT Soccer Thread, v.2019

Looks like the last thread is closed, so onto the new!

Upcoming Matches of Interest
2/3 Madrid Derby
2/4 Manchester City v. Arsenal
2/10 Manchester City v. Chelsea
2/12 Manchester United v. PSG
2/13 Tottenham v. Dortmund
2/19 Liverpool v. Bayern Munich
2/24 Manchester United v. Liverpool
2/28 Chelsea v. Tottenham
3/2 North London Derby, Merseyside Derby, & El Classico
3/5 Dortmund v. Tottenham
3/9 Arsenal v. Manchester United
3/13 Bayern Munich v. Liverpool
3/16 Manchester Derby
3/30 Liverpool v. Tottenham

The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 30, 2019 at 07:08 PM | 1161 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: soccer

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 12 pages  1 2 3 >  Last ›
   1. Mefisto Posted: January 30, 2019 at 07:27 PM (#5810535)
Thanks for posting a new thread. Big announcement today in the Northwest: Seattle Reign are moving to Tacoma, along with the Sounders reserve team. Seems like a big deal for Tacoma.
   2. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 30, 2019 at 07:41 PM (#5810537)
So Arsenal and Tottenham are the only two teams that won this week. Yeesh. And now Tottenham only needs to make up 7 points in 14 matches!
   3. spivey Posted: January 30, 2019 at 08:13 PM (#5810540)
This was a great, great couple of days for Tottenham and Arsenal. Probably not terrible for Man U either since Chelsea is teetering on the brink.

If Sarri keeps them top 4 he's safe, but if I were them I'd be inclined to sell Hazard for the 140 million pounds they'd get and pivot the team on Pulisic, Odoi, and a few other prodigious talents. I can't help but feel like Hazard is one of the few constants of a team that is ok just going through the motions for large parts of games and seasons. I'd probably try to really clear out a lot of the old guard if I'm being frank, including Willian and Luiz.

Some pretty wild results the last day or two, across the world, including Roma getting spanked 7-1 and Dzeko spitting in a ref's face. Juventus losing 3-0. Barcelona walking back a 2-0 loss to win 6-1 and advance in the Copa del Rey. All sorts of craziness in the EPL.

Son's back for Tottenham. Hazard is starting his mailing it in part of the season. VVD and Salah are probably battling right now for player of the season, but I actually think Son could have a sneaky good case, especially if he keeps up this scalding form over the next month.

Liverpool had a pretty clear penalty not called, which denied a very good goal scoring opp, so they're a bit hard done by xG. But they were out xG'ed 1.3-0.5 at home to Leicester (in admittedly #### conditions).

--

Also pretty excited that in the last year the MLS has gotten a number of really nice transfers to Europe, with Almiron the latest. I think it's really looked at as a legitimate league, like the smaller Europe and SA leagues.
   4. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 30, 2019 at 10:57 PM (#5810573)
Another thanks for posting a new thread, though I guess I'd like to know why our OT - Soccer threads keep getting closed when the OT - NBA thread (for example) has been open since October and has 5600+ posts in it???

O.o?
   5. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: January 31, 2019 at 08:10 AM (#5810588)
Another thanks for posting a new thread, though I guess I'd like to know why our OT - Soccer threads keep getting closed when the OT - NBA thread (for example) has been open since October and has 5600+ posts in it???

Because soccer is a communist plot.

Agreed that the results the last couple of days have been very, very interesting. I loved Sarri saying he didn't want to disrespect Bournemouth and then proceeded to disrespect Bournemouth. I'll have to ask my Bournemouth supporting mate if he was chanting "You're just a shit Tottenham Hotspur at the game.
   6. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: January 31, 2019 at 08:26 AM (#5810593)
Peter Crouch is back! He'll be heading (pun!) to Burnley to try to recreate the goal that beat AC Milan at the San Siro.
   7. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 31, 2019 at 08:29 AM (#5810595)
I'm not shocked at Leicester drawing Liverpool. They're a sneaky good team, and Liverpool is going to have some days where they're just not firing. They should have gotten a PK from that foul on Keita, but even so if they can draw good teams on their bad days they're still in good shape. I do wish they'd been able to take more advantage of City's stumble.

Also, it looks like the top 3 are locked in, with Liverpool likely champs and Spurs and City in a fight for 2nd and 3rd. That leaves Chelsea, Arsenal, and United all fighting for the final CL spot and currently separated by 2 points. That's going to be a lot of fun for the neutrals down the stretch.
   8. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: January 31, 2019 at 08:36 AM (#5810597)
Spurs are so busted up I won't be shocked if they sink into a 3rd-6th place melee while City try to run down Liverpool.

And probably succeed, because Liverpool. :)
   9. KronicFatigue Posted: January 31, 2019 at 08:44 AM (#5810598)
Agree that Chelsea needs a big-time house cleaning. The inmates have been running the asylum for years there. Players get unhappy so they stop trying, then the board caters to their whims. I really hope CHO is part of their future, but also think it's a crazy that someone so young can just demand playing time without earning it.

Hazard seems to pout, and while he's not wrong that he's been missued for stretches (false nine), at some point, he needs to just suck it up and play. Leave or stay, but stop hanging around while talking up Madrid.

Changing topics (but stemming from my belief that Chelsea's downfall started with letting the players run Mourinho out) I have a question about roster construction and mangers finding players that fit their style. If a top manager was allowed to build a roster with all the players he wanted, could they be essentially be unstoppable? Let's use Tottenham 90,000,000 pounds as the baseline. No transfer fee issues, just the a top manager going around the world and picking players at their current wages. Would those teams definitely be CL/league favorites, even against say Man City's 145,000,000? How many managers could make that work?

Out of the big 6, Tottenham has the lowest wages at 90,000,000 pounds. Is it safe to presume that every top manager, given that money and allowed to hand pick their squad without transfer issues, could produce a heavy CL/league favorite? Could a mediocre manager do it as well?
   10. Jose is an Absurd Kahuna Posted: January 31, 2019 at 08:45 AM (#5810599)
I'm with Scott about yesterday's game. Leicester are a good team so a draw against them isn't a bad result. It's not ideal but if I'm a Liverpool fan I'm not especially bothered by it. I think it sticks out because of the order of the games, if Liverpool had drawn on Tuesday and City lost on Wednesday I think the emotional impact of the week would feel differently for a lot of people. The reality is as the play by play guy said at the end of the game; Liverpool are further ahead at the end of the matchday than they were at the start of it.

I think it's a legit two team race for the title, Liverpool haven't secured anything yet but I think 3-6 is very much up in the air. Chelsea look like they are coming unglued but things can turn in a hurry. We aren't that far removed from Sarri (and frankly Emery) being the fresh new look for their teams. The 7 point edge for Spurs on 5th place is good but with the injuries they just are not the same team they were at the start of the year. I'd expect them to hold a CL spot but I don't think it's a lock.
   11. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: January 31, 2019 at 08:47 AM (#5810600)
Yeah, Spurs are just treading water right now though I'm a little more confident with Son back.
   12. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: January 31, 2019 at 09:59 AM (#5810614)
It'll be interesting to see how Miguel Almiron does in the PL.

Not much else cooking today. Denis Suarez goes on loan to Arsenal. Ozil is stuck at Arsenal. Schalke might take Janssen on loan from Spurs. Almost 100% sure Spurs will have no incomings.
   13. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 31, 2019 at 10:07 AM (#5810616)
Happy Transfer Day, callooh callay!

I expect a giant helping of Ball Saxsbury for Spurs fans; Inky to Monaco, Sterling to ... ???, and Thicc Vin to ... well, likely back to the u23s, since ####### Daniel Levy decided to pull a #######-Daniel-Levy at the last moment and screwed the pooch on the loan deal:

The Dutch striker looked certain to move to Real Betis in Spain with the clubs having appeared to agree on a loan deal with an option to buy.

But at the last minute, Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy is understood to have increased the loan fee by £1m and the Seville-based club has walked away.


It's Vincent bloody Janssen, FFS Levy, you're lucky you don't have to pay someone to take him off Spurs' hands, even on loan ... I mean, surely, this must be how the day ends, right?

Oh, why am I being so negative, I'm sure Cardiff will stump up the 12-15 million pounds Levy is supposedly asking for player that hasn't started a match for Tottenham since January 2017 ... and who doesn't even have a page for the 2018/2019 season over at ESPNFC ...

/Spurs transfer rant
   14. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: January 31, 2019 at 11:16 AM (#5810638)
Current Top 4 betting odds:

Tottenham 83%
Chelsea 57%
Man. United 35%
Arsenal 26%

Spurs are not a lock, but are in good shape.
   15. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: January 31, 2019 at 11:30 AM (#5810640)
Liverpool failing to beat anyone other than one of the top 6 at home is a big setback, whether it's Leicester or no, especially if they don't look very good in the process. They can't afford to keep doing that if they want to hold off Man. City.

That said, it's best that it happened now while they have a significant lead, and maybe the weather played a part. It's also only one game. Though they've had a couple close calls in other games recently, they've generally played those other games well and fully deserved to win them.

edit: pretty sure you can't complain about the field if your ground staff only clears the snow off the side you are attacking.

The Anfield groundstaff cleared only half the snow away from the pitch at the break -- at the end that Liverpool were attacking in the second period -- but the home side could not score.
   16. Jose is an Absurd Kahuna Posted: January 31, 2019 at 11:39 AM (#5810644)
Liverpool failing to beat anyone other than one of the top 6 at home is a big setback, whether it's Leicester or no, especially if they don't look very good in the process. They can't afford to keep doing that if they want to hold off Man. City.


I agree it's a setback but every team is going to have a game like that. Having it happen against Leicester is less concerning than it happening to Crystal Palace for example. Your second sentence is the important one. As long as it's a one off, no biggie, if they do what City did and let one negative result turn into a trend even for a short time that's bad.
   17. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 31, 2019 at 11:46 AM (#5810645)
I want to add that I entirely believe Man City could reel Liverpool in and win the league. It's just that I don't think the Leicester match is a harbinger of doom in and of itself- and despite the disappointing result City themselves just blew a lead against Newcastle.
   18. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: January 31, 2019 at 11:52 AM (#5810647)
Serious question: how good is Palace? 538 has loved them most of the year, and ranks them as essentially even with Leicester and Everton right now, and a hair ahead of Wolves and Watford, for 7th best team in the league.

Their xG numbers to date put them in a tier below the midtable teams, but well above the teams scrapping for relegation.
   19. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 31, 2019 at 12:25 PM (#5810659)
German window has shut. No Thicc Vin to Schalke ...
   20. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: January 31, 2019 at 02:45 PM (#5810720)
Former Spurs favorite Sandro lives! He signed with Udinese today. Glad to see he's doing well.
   21. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: January 31, 2019 at 04:53 PM (#5810799)
Two games in the Bundesliga this Saturday could go a long way towards determining the champion. Both Dortmund and Bayern have difficult road games (Bayern at Leverkusen, Dortmund at Frankfurt). Bayern also has to go to Gladbach in March and Leipzig in May. Dortmund has to go to Gladbach in May and of course to Bayern in April.
   22. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: January 31, 2019 at 05:35 PM (#5810825)
The Coppa Italia quarters featured probably the best 8 teams in Italy (the only questionable one is Fiorentina, but none of the other 12 teams are clearly better). That can't have happened very often.

Now, probably the best 4 of those are out: Juve, Napoli, Inter and Roma (although Roma is not really any better than the remaining teams, except Fiorentina, which is actually the team that beat them).

The remaining teams are Milan, Lazio, Atalanta and Fiorentina. Any of these four could win it at this point.

edit: oops, maybe a last second penalty for Inter? Indeed. Going to PKs after all.
   23. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: January 31, 2019 at 05:53 PM (#5810835)
Lazio won after all. The last miss by Inter (Nainggolan) came when he took it really fast after the whistle, seemingly almost in an attempt to surprise the keeper. He also hit it hard and high down the middle. Both strategies seem defensible, but I'm not sure about trying them in combination. Does not giving the keeper time to think mean he's less likely to dive at all? He just jumped up and blocked it.
   24. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 31, 2019 at 06:08 PM (#5810838)
Graphic from NBCSN

Since 2014 (points / net spend in USD millions)


City 379 / $745.5
Spurs 351 / $64.5
Chelsea 347 / $448
Liverpool 334 / $227.5
United 331 / $687
Arsenal 331 / $353
   25. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 31, 2019 at 06:08 PM (#5810839)
Aaaaaaand ... Thicc Vin gets another 5 months playing for Spurs u23s!
   26. aberg Posted: January 31, 2019 at 06:28 PM (#5810845)
Thanks for posting a new thread. Big announcement today in the Northwest: Seattle Reign are moving to Tacoma, along with the Sounders reserve team. Seems like a big deal for Tacoma.


Didn't S2 play at Cheney field last year, too? I know they are rebranding this year, but I think the location happened earlier.
   27. Baldrick Posted: January 31, 2019 at 07:26 PM (#5810874)
Didn't S2 play at Cheney field last year, too? I know they are rebranding this year, but I think the location happened earlier.

They did. Both will be hoping to move to the new soccer stadium next door by 2021. Given construction delays and all...we'll see.

It's a good move for the Reign. It's clearly suboptimal to the ideal, which would be to stay in Seattle but in a good stadium. But there wasn't any such option, so this is far superior to gutting it out in Memorial one last year and then still having no good options 9 months from now. Tacoma seems like they could get excited about the team, and it's not like Seattle was supporting them very well anyway, since Sounders fans apparently only value soccer when it's played by dudes.
   28. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: January 31, 2019 at 09:34 PM (#5810900)
I know Janssen was mostly useless for Spurs when he did play, but for some reason I have a soft spot for him. He must have really done something to piss Poch off, given that he can't even make the bench over youth team players during the current injury crisis.
   29. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 31, 2019 at 10:32 PM (#5810927)
He must have really done something to piss Poch off, given that he can't even make the bench over youth team players during the current injury crisis.


Yeah, I just don't get not even giving him a shot, but Poch does seem to have "his guys" and if you're the opposite, well, there often doesn't seem to be anyway back.

What a dog of a signing Thicc Vin turned out to be for both sides; I feel bad for the guy, because it potentially derailed his career and it seems like he's a good teammate and is well liked around the club personally.
   30. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: January 31, 2019 at 11:37 PM (#5810940)
Already discussed a few months ago how 538's rankings have the lowest teams in La Liga ranked too high, but I just noticed something related.

The lowest ranked teams in the EPL (Cardiff, Huddersfield and Fulham) have ratings very similar, and actually a tad lower, than the highest Championship teams (Leeds and Sheffield United). That was the same last year. However, the lowest rated La Liga teams (Levante, and then a group of Huesca, Vallecano, Valladoid, and Gerona) are rated 15 to 20 points above the top teams in La Liga 2. It's an enormous gap. Throw out Levante (bottom of La Liga) and Deportivo (tops in La Liga 2 right now), and the gap is 27 points. To put that in perspective, it's only a little bit smaller than the gap between Man. City and Hudddersfield.

There's a similar problem, just not as pronounced, for 538's Italy rankings. France has only a small gap and Germany essentially none.
   31. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: February 01, 2019 at 10:01 AM (#5810971)
Over there, over there
Send the word, send the word over there
That the Yanks are coming
The Yanks are coming
The drums rum-tumming
Everywhere
So prepare, say a prayer
Send the word, send the word to beware
We'll be over, we're coming over
And we won't come back till it's over
Over there


Bayern Munich have signed American teenager Taylor Booth from Real Salt Lake's academy, the club announced on Thursday.

Booth, 17, will join the defending Bundesliga champions on a three-and-a-half-year deal.

"We see a lot of potential in Taylor. He is a talented young player, and we look forward to working with him to develop his talent further," Bayern campus manager Jochen Sauer said on the team's website.

Booth will join Bayern's under-19s to start his career at the club.
   32. BillWallace Posted: February 01, 2019 at 03:09 PM (#5811145)
Random thoughts:
- I think Chelsea should clean house after this season. Lose Hazard, Willian, and Luiz and bring in Sarri's guys.
- At those posted odds I'm betting against Chelsea top 4 and for ManU.
- I'm pretty sure Dzeko didn't actually spit in the ref's face. He either spit downwards, or just made an exaggerated gesture while telling him to jebem his mother. Still a suspension, but a much shorter one.
- I don't know the betting odds, but Liverpool should still be long long favorites for the title.
   33. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 01, 2019 at 03:30 PM (#5811156)
Liverpool should still be long long favorites for the title.
At only around 63%, they really aren't. (Man City 35%, Tottenham 2%). I also think that is a little low for Liverpool.
   34. spivey Posted: February 01, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5811193)
The only thing I'll say in City's defense, is their insanely high quality isn't too tied to one player. They proved they could be mostly City without their best player, KDB. Now Fernandinho doesn't have a direct replacement and Sterling and Aguero are definitely better than their backups too, but the machine would keep rolling. Their third and fourth best wingers are Bernardo and Mahrez, for ##### sake. That's just absurd.

Liverpool is so reliant on a few of their players, VVD and Salah in particular, that an injury could really, really open things up. So to me, if you say Liverpool stays healthy the rest of the year, then those odds seem maybe a bit low. But if they suffer injury problems, even if City suffers them too, Liverpool is more at risk.
   35. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: February 01, 2019 at 05:07 PM (#5811203)
And, after our discussion yesterday, Pochettino has brought Janssen back into the squad. Weird situation all around.
   36. The_Ex Posted: February 01, 2019 at 06:40 PM (#5811230)
Liverpool are not guaranteed to beat Bayern in the Champions League. City should take care of Schalke. If Liverpool were to lose to Bayern their premier league odds should increase significantly.
   37. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: February 02, 2019 at 09:44 AM (#5811301)
And, after our discussion yesterday, Pochettino has brought Janssen back into the squad. Weird situation all around.


Well ... sort of back into the squad. From everything I've read, he's still probably 4th choice up top at this point and he'll slip further down when Kane returns.

I don't expect that he'll grab a minute of play this season, but at least he's been recalled to train with the 1st team, so good for him.

Meanwhile, against Toon:

WHAT DO WE SAY TO THE GOD OF DRAWS???

NOT TODAY!

Bless you, my Son!

MCoA's xG had it 2.8 - 0.5 ... that would have been a kick in the teeth if Spurs had dropped points there.

   38. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 02, 2019 at 10:15 AM (#5811303)
That was a huge win. Now Spurs will either wake up Monday morning in second place or in 3rd place but 9 points ahead of 5th. Nothing is easy right now, though.
   39. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 02, 2019 at 10:16 AM (#5811304)
It didn't take Higuain long to introduce himself.
   40. spivey Posted: February 02, 2019 at 10:27 AM (#5811305)
That is one of Spurs best xG performances of the year. Banking the last three wins has been huge but a pretty tough run of games is coming up.
   41. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: February 02, 2019 at 11:30 AM (#5811321)
Leverkusen did BvB a real solid against Bayern Munich.

Excellent.
   42. Dale Sams Posted: February 02, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5811326)
That shot on the Newcastle keeper knuckled AND skipped right in front of him. Brutal, and he should have stopped it, but that's brutal.
   43. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 02, 2019 at 11:50 AM (#5811330)
Leeds/Norwich is a huge matchup in the Championship.
   44. frannyzoo Posted: February 02, 2019 at 08:59 PM (#5811422)
Canaries with a big win, at Leeds, and we'll see how much it plays with Bielsa's head (because everything does). I'd rather a Canaries/Blades automatic, but the rest of the season is setting up so very nicely in the mincemeat world of the Championship.
   45. I am going to be Frank Posted: February 03, 2019 at 11:32 AM (#5811450)
Oh Arsenal. Did anyone expect anything different?
   46. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 03, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5811452)
That was a a penalty all day long. I might have a couple of more free hours today than I expected.
   47. I am going to be Frank Posted: February 03, 2019 at 11:35 AM (#5811453)
How is Mustafi still getting a sniff anywhere near the team sheet?
   48. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 03, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5811457)
Well, hold on now...
   49. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 03, 2019 at 12:03 PM (#5811472)
Man City have developed a bad habit of scoring an early goal and then shutting down.
   50. Sean Forman Posted: February 03, 2019 at 02:47 PM (#5811491)
Tim Weah with three goals and an assist in 5 matches at Celtic.
   51. spivey Posted: February 03, 2019 at 02:54 PM (#5811492)
At the end of the day City pummeled Arsenal in xG. I sometimes think we hold City to an almost impossible standard.
   52. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: February 03, 2019 at 03:11 PM (#5811496)
Sure, but they've still only been second best in the league. And they've gone 6-4 in their last 10 league matches. If they want to stake claim to being the best team in the world, they gotta prove it.
   53. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: February 03, 2019 at 05:04 PM (#5811517)
The wreckage of the plane that vanished with the footballer Emiliano Sala on board has been found within hours of a search starting in the sea off the Channel Islands.

A search boat hired privately by Sala’s Argentinian family – thanks partly to a crowdfunding appeal – located the wreckage on Sunday morning.

The crew passed the details of the location on to government investigators, who used a remotely operated underwater vehicle (ROV) to examine the spot.

There was no immediate official confirmation of what was found but the shipwreck specialist leading the private investigation, David Mearns, said the plane had been discovered.
   54. spivey Posted: February 03, 2019 at 05:34 PM (#5811522)
Sure, but they've still only been second best in the league. And they've gone 6-4 in their last 10 league matches. If they want to stake claim to being the best team in the world, they gotta prove it.

Sure. Though, to be fair, they've played the majority of the season without their best player, and he's been a bit out of form since he's been back. They're also ahead of Liverpool in xGD/xPoints from understat (though some, but not all of the xPoint difference is the extra game). They also didn't lose to Belgrade 2-0.

All to say, Liverpool's been great. But I think they've been pretty lucky this season, pretty healthy the last couple of seasons, and despite having a lot more depth than they did 1-2 years ago, there still is extreme reliance on a few guys.

It is nice that Liverpool has risen to the challenge of being within the margin of error that soccer has, because the others have not.
   55. jmurph Posted: February 04, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5811916)
Pellegrini, man, what a guy:
Manuel Pellegrini on West Ham vs Liverpool:

"If we win I will be very happy for our club first, because we need a good performance against the leaders. After that if we can give a hand to Manchester City, it’s not our problem, but of course I am a fan of Manchester City also."

They lined up his replacement like a year in advance! While he was doing a good job!
   56. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 04, 2019 at 01:45 PM (#5811940)
If we win
It would be about even with the second biggest upset (by pregame betting odds) of the year (Wolves at Tottenham 12/29). The biggest by far was of course Palace at Man. City.

West Ham is just not very good this year, and have been worse than usual (by xG) over the last several games.

Of course, a win OR a draw is much more likely--it would not be an especially large upset, but would be almost as bad for Liverpool.
   57. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 04, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5811947)
I don't know if anyone is interested, but Netflix seems to have a lot of soccer stuff available. I haven't seen it all but the Sunderland doc is worth watching. Club de Cuervos is actually really good and, while I don't know much about Mexican club soccer, I get the feeling they made sure to get the details right. There's also a cop procedural called Dogs of Berlin which is about the murder of a German player of Turkish descent--who's supposed to be, like, near Christiano Ronaldo level of a player--who gets murdered the night before Germany plays Turkey in a World Cup game. I watched the first episode and it seemed all right, enough to keep watching, but there's a scene in the second episode where one woman violently assaults a second woman and then urinates on her head and I was out. I got through the dog vomiting up a human finger, but I have standards! I'm just not German enough, I guess...
   58. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: February 04, 2019 at 02:20 PM (#5811960)
Seconded the Sunderland doc.
lol @ Jack Rodwell
   59. jmurph Posted: February 04, 2019 at 02:20 PM (#5811961)
The Netflix Juventus thing was also fine. I think there's another one... about Boca, maybe?
   60. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 04, 2019 at 03:25 PM (#5811991)
Clear missed offside in the buildup to the Liverpool goal. The Hammers didn't seem to complain very loudly, though I guess it would have been mostly useless to do so anyway.

Alisson looks like he's in pink pajamas.
   61. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: February 04, 2019 at 03:25 PM (#5811992)
It's kind of baffling that the assistant ref somehow misses that Milner is a mile offside when he's standing right there.
   62. jmurph Posted: February 04, 2019 at 04:29 PM (#5812024)
I don't care for the way in which Liverpool is toying with my emotions today. We all know they're getting a late winner here.
   63. spivey Posted: February 04, 2019 at 04:54 PM (#5812036)
Title race should be pretty fun. Liverpool is starting to look mortal again.
   64. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 04, 2019 at 04:56 PM (#5812038)
Liverpool looked very shaky again today--not at all good enough to be champion. A draw was probably the most fair result. Betting odds must be near 50/50 now.

edit: Manchester City at 49.5%, Liverpool at 45%, Tottenham at 4.5%
   65. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 04, 2019 at 05:41 PM (#5812056)
Almost 2/3 of the way through the season, so xG report from understat, MCoA and 538

xGD range: with penalties; (without penalties); [538 blended method: shot xGD, non-shot xGD, actual GD]

1. Man. City: 39 to 41 (40 to 42) [44]. Best performer in the second half so far. Maybe odds on for the title at this point.

2. Liverpool: 31 to 34 (28 to 31) [34]. Have performed ok by xG in the second half, but not good enough to be champion. The two second-half draws reflect that.

3. Chelsea: 20 to 22 (16 to 18) [20]. Only a slight positive in second half xGD, which means they are falling back to the pack a little. Same is true in the table. Top 4 now in doubt.
4. Tottenham: 15 to 18 (15 to 18) [18]. Decent positive second half xGD, a tad less than expected but not bad.

5. Man. United: 8 to 12 (5 to 9) [9]. After Man. City, the best second half performer by xGD so far. They were lucky to beat both Leicester and Tottenham, but unlucky to just draw Burnley. Played a relatively easy schedule, but no easier than Tottenham or Chelsea.

6. Arsenal: 3 to 6 (5 to 8) [8]. Slight positive second-half xGD--about as expected considering played away to Liverpool/City and also played Chelsea. Easiest remaining schedule of the top 6.

7. Wolves: 3 to 7 (2 to 6) [-1]. Like many of the midtable teams, they have been flat on xGD in the second half so far. That's a slight underperformance from their good first half. They've moved up in the table but their xG performances have actually decreased, and now they are very near where they would be expected to be (rather than large underperformers). 538 doesn't like them much because their non-shot xGD and actual GD are much lower than their shot xG.

8. Leicester: 1 to 2 (0 to 1) [-1]. Same as the first half. They just haven't gotten the results, and so have fallen back in the actual table.
9. Everton: -1 to 0 (-1 to 0) [1]. Also no change. this comes with a big caveat though, since they've probably played the easiest second half schedule so far. Still have to play all the top 6.
10. Bournemouth: -3 to 0 (-5 to -2) [-3]. Also effectively no change.

11. Watford: -5 to -1 (-3 to 1) [-1]. Have been poor so far in the second half, and over a fairly easy 6 games (though they did clear 7 points). This could be a sign that the first half magic has worn off.
12. Palace: -6 to -3 (-8 to -5) [-6]. Like the midtable teams, no change. Palace probably belongs in the midtable group, but started very poorly.

13. West Ham: -10 to -7 (-9 to -6) [-5]. Poor start to the second half, dropping them comfortably into the lower half of the league. They looked decent today against Liverpool, to the surprise of many.
14. Southampton: -9 to -7 (-11 to -9) [-12]. Also a poor second half so far. Unlike West Ham, they can't keep playing badly or they risk relegation.

15. Cardiff: -14 to -13 (-12 to -11) [-18]. More or less a continuation of the first half. At serious risk of relegation unless they step it up, since they have significantly underperformed traditional xG so far.
16. Brighton: -15 to -13 (-14 to -12) [-13]. They were never any good, but got off to a hot start to the season. If they just keep doing the same thing they'll survive but there's a small chance it could get nervy in the last few weeks.

17. Newcastle: -18 to -17 (-17 to -16) [-15]. Have had a big drop in the second half, but it comes with a large caveat: they had to play 4 of the top 6 already, over just 6 games. Even better, they actually took 7 points from those games. They'll likely survive, but it could still get nervy.
18. Burnley: -18 to -17 (-16 to -15) [-17]. The surprise of the second half so far, especially considering their abysmal first half. Best second half xGD performer other than the top 6 (and better than Arsenal and Chelsea). Playing themselves out of relegation. They are probably better than Cardiff anyway, so as long as they don't revert to whatever the hell they were doing in the first half, they should survive. It's still touch and go.

19. Fulham: -21 to -19 (-19 to -17) [-20]. They continue to be about as bad as ever. There's little hope.
20. Huddersfield: -23 to -21 (-19 to -17) [-20]. The wheels have come off in the second half, in xG as well as the actual standings.
   66. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: February 04, 2019 at 10:37 PM (#5812128)
Liverpool better win this title, or else I'm going to go more than three months with a team I support not winning a title. I'm not made for that type of long term pain!
   67. manchestermets Posted: February 05, 2019 at 05:57 AM (#5812158)
I keep reading that Man United are lucky because of the difference between xG and their actual results, but am I right in thinking that the xG figures take absolutely no account of the ability of the goalkeeper? If so, how is having the best goalkeeper around "luck"? They didn't draw the name David de Gea out of a hat and then go and buy him - they identified the player that would best fill the vacancy available and bought him based on that. That doing so improves their outcomes isn't luck.
   68. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 05, 2019 at 08:32 AM (#5812178)
   69. Mefisto Posted: February 05, 2019 at 09:04 AM (#5812181)
@67: There are 2 different issues here. You used the term "xG", which is purely a measure of over/under performance *offensively*. If United are winning because they're scoring more goals than they "should" be scoring given their opportunities, that has nothing to do with DeGea.

Possibly you meant "xGD". In this case the difference between goals scored and goals allowed would of course include DeGea. That could be the explanation for United's place in the table. Last year, for example, DeGea's performance was enough to explain why United finished second instead of fifth.
   70. spivey Posted: February 05, 2019 at 09:28 AM (#5812195)
Re: 67 and de Gea's affect on xG

It's an interesting question and something I've been thinking about.

A few thoughts:

- While I do think there are some goal keepers and offensive players that may consistently overperform xG, I would want to see a clear pattern of evidence before assuming it's something more than luck.
- For Man U, I'm just looking at Understat here because I like how they aggregate data, but last year Man U had 17 GA in open play, with an xGA of 32.88 - a huge difference. This year, Man U has given up 22 GA from open play, with an xGA of 24.78. Better than expected, but not much and well within what I would consider normal error bars. In 2016-17, they gave up 18 GA from open play with an xGA of 20.39. Again, better than expected but not much.
- De Gea's GA in set pieces is 1 this year, while his xGA is 3.70. That should maybe be counted as well as keeper quality, though it's worth noting the difference was minimal the previous two years. De Gea/Man U also doesn't overperform on corner kicks, though that's more of a team stat than free kicks.
- All of the other top 6 teams besides Arsenal have a slightly positive GA-xGA. Again, may be noise, but even though de Gea is the best keeper in the EPL IMO, the keepers at most of the other top clubs are very good as well.

Anyways, long story short - looking at least at Understat, it seems to suggest that they've been lucky on the margins here and there with xG, but really I think a lot of their overperforming this year has as much to do with having a better point total than a team with 14 GD would be expected to as opposed to significantly outperforming xG. Last year, they very seriously outperformed xG. Of course, those points are banked and they are playing much better since Mourinho left. Easy to forget but I think Man U had a 0 GD at the time of Mourinho's sacking.

   71. Mefisto Posted: February 05, 2019 at 09:50 AM (#5812206)
Statsbomb had an article on comparing DeGea's performance this year and last year which I think I linked here on the previous thread. The short version of that article is that Statsbomb has a new metric which doesn't just compare goals allowed with xGA, but measures the quality of the actual shot. By this standard (off memory), DeGea was +9 (or maybe +12) in 2017-18 and +6 this year. By this measure, he's still fantastic, but has faced harder chances this year. Anyone who's watched the United defense this year will be nodding along at this point.
   72. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 05, 2019 at 10:06 AM (#5812212)
The best teams in a league generally, but not always, have a better GD than xGD. Man. United's differential is about +4 goals now, which is nothing special. It was always overstated anyway, but especially now it's no longer accurate to say they have been unusually lucky overall.

All the other top 6, except Chelsea, now have bigger differentials. The highest is Tottenham at +11, and Arsenal is not far behind. I guess you could say Man. City's differential, which is close to Man. United's, is less on a per point basis since they are ahead in the standings, but that's splitting hairs.
   73. Mefisto Posted: February 05, 2019 at 10:08 AM (#5812213)
Another thought on the concept of xG. The whole idea depends on *averages*: the average shot, taken from X location, will result in xG. However, some players overperform xG over a wide sample. Messi, to pick the obvious, is +27 for his career. Other players underperform: Aaron Ramsey is -7. That's how I'd expect averages to work. So while someone like DeGea can't be expected to set a career best every year, I would expect him to be one of those generally above average.

One other thought. As I interpret xG and xGA, they're both measures of *relative* performance. That is, if (to use GK as the example) other keepers become better at shot stopping over time, that itself would affect the amount of extra value provided by even the best keeper. I'm not saying this happened with DeGea this year -- the Statsbomb article I mentioned doesn't suggest that -- but it is true that the top teams have been getting much better keepers over the last few years starting with Lloris and now including DeGea, Ederson, and Alisson.

I may be wrong on either or both of these, so someone more familiar with the stats should let me know.
   74. Mefisto Posted: February 05, 2019 at 10:57 AM (#5812240)
Oh, and if there are people here more knowledgeable about soccer stats, I have 2 questions about how xG and xA work:

1. Suppose that, by some miracle, I get the ball in a dangerous position in the box. Because I'm me, I'm immediately tackled, or I lose the ball, or I foul the defender. That is, I don't get off a shot and I don't even try to make a pass. Does my "possession" count towards xG and/or xA, or do those only measure attempts of some sort?

2. It regularly happens that players get more than 1 touch in the final third. Does xG/xA count each touch as a separate event and sum them up? Or is it only the final touch that matters? And if it sums up all the touches, at what point in the sequence does this start?
   75. The_Ex Posted: February 05, 2019 at 11:08 AM (#5812243)
I believe xG is shots only. There are more sophisticated, and theoretical models, that look at possession.

I also believe xG can be adjusted. Lets say Pogba takes a shot from the edge of the area and it is saved, the ball rebounds to Lukaku who shoots and it is again saved then rebounds to Lingard who scores.

Lets say the shots have an xG of .3; .5; and .7. In total that is 1.5 xG or expected goals, but if the first shot goes in, you don't get the other two shots. I believe some models adjust for this and some don't. You can see a wide variation in some games between different xG models.
   76. The_Ex Posted: February 05, 2019 at 11:10 AM (#5812245)
One other point, some xG models are now looking at context for each shot. There is a difference between a shot from the penalty spot when the shooter is one-on-one with the keeper, versus a shot from the same spot into a crowded box. Those models are usually behind a paywall.
   77. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 05, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5812246)
1. Suppose that, by some miracle, I get the ball in a dangerous position in the box. Because I'm me, I'm immediately tackled, or I lose the ball, or I foul the defender. That is, I don't get off a shot and I don't even try to make a pass. Does my "possession" count towards xG and/or xA, or do those only measure attempts of some sort?
No. There has to be a "shot", which I think actually means an attempt at goal which includes contact on the ball. A pure swing/miss doesn't even count.

2. It regularly happens that players get more than 1 touch in the final third. Does xG/xA count each touch as a separate event and sum them up? Or is it only the final touch that matters? And if it sums up all the touches, at what point in the sequence does this start?
I think most systems use the highest xG (from a "shot") in an attack, and discard the others. It's probably rare that it's not clear when an attack has ended and a new one starts, but I guess it happens occasionally. So, a team can have more than one attack before getting pushed back out of the final third, but, for example, taking a shot immediately after a block or save will mean either the initial shot or the second shot will not be counted.
   78. spivey Posted: February 05, 2019 at 11:14 AM (#5812248)
1. Suppose that, by some miracle, I get the ball in a dangerous position in the box. Because I'm me, I'm immediately tackled, or I lose the ball, or I foul the defender. That is, I don't get off a shot and I don't even try to make a pass. Does my "possession" count towards xG and/or xA, or do those only measure attempts of some sort?


I think 538 has non-shot xG that tries to account for these sort of situations. But understat and Caley_Graphics are purely shot based to my knowledge.

I'm sure this is an area where teams have models that are accounting for this way better than publicly available detail, kind of like what happened in baseball with teams being a few steps ahead with defense/launch angle/pitch breakdowns before it became common.

2. It regularly happens that players get more than 1 touch in the final third. Does xG/xA count each touch as a separate event and sum them up? Or is it only the final touch that matters? And if it sums up all the touches, at what point in the sequence does this start?

Dunno about 538, maybe AuntBea can weigh in there. Caley_Graphics accounts for this in a shooting scenario by only counting the highest xG on a particular sequence. So if you shoot from 10 yards out and the goalie saves it and then the rebound comes to a guy who gets a mostly open shot from 3 yards, only the second would be counted. I don't know the exact algorithm/parameters used to determine when a sequence starts for each of the different systems.
   79. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 05, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5812250)
One other point, some xG models are now looking at context for each shot. There is a difference between a shot from the penalty spot when the shooter is one-on-one with the keeper, versus a shot from the same spot into a crowded box. Those models are usually behind a paywall.
They all account for this, just some in more sophisticated ways than others. The "big chance" factor is the way it has been done until recently, but now there are other factors for publicly available data, such as defenders between ball and goal. More sophisticated systems also are using actual defender positioning.
   80. Mefisto Posted: February 05, 2019 at 11:30 AM (#5812255)
Thanks for those responses.

It seems to me that there should be some accounting for wasted situations (see my example #1 in 74). Otherwise, both xG and xA may overstate a player's value.
   81. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 05, 2019 at 11:50 AM (#5812275)

It seems to me that there should be some accounting for wasted situations (see my example #1 in 74). Otherwise, both xG and xA may overstate a player's value.
I'd have to think about that a bit, but one point to consider is that a shot that leads to a rebound is usually one that is at least as "good" as its xG fraction. For example, a shot from medium distance might have a 0.12 xG, but if it's difficult enough that it forces a save from the keeper and a rebound, the attack is still live and the immediate expected goals after the save could be at least as high as 0.12. It's not clear that it isn't mostly a wash.
   82. Baldrick Posted: February 05, 2019 at 11:51 AM (#5812277)
It seems to me that there should be some accounting for wasted situations (see my example #1 in 74). Otherwise, both xG and xA may overstate a player's value.

There are plenty of other metrics that do attempt to account for this. Progressive passing, key passes, big chances created, etc. All of them suffer from the basic problem of soccer being a game of complicated interplay and fluid dynamics, of course, but some are more contextual than others. Whether that is a good or a bad thing probably depends on what you're trying to get from the metrics.

In my opinion, xG and xA provide basic topline numbers that I think are generally representative of team performance and provide a good baseline for thinking about player performance. They can't do a lot more than that, but I think they generally do a pretty good job there.

Some of the more refined stats may offer a lot more precision, but also run the risk of getting wrapped up in epicycles and taking you far away from the actual results.
   83. Mefisto Posted: February 05, 2019 at 12:07 PM (#5812289)
@81: I agree with that. I was thinking of situations in which a player simply loses the ball while in the final third/box. It's a chance squandered without ever actually being a chance. Should there be some offset there?

Which gets to the good point Baldrick makes in 82. Perhaps what I have in mind is the flip side of "big chances", namely "big chances squandered" or something like that. It's right for players to get credit for, say, making good passes, but there should be a negative to being tackled or giving away possession cheaply, particularly in important areas of the pitch. I think those should be tracked and noted just as much as the positive results you mention.
   84. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 05, 2019 at 12:14 PM (#5812293)
Oh, I see my solution would only partially resolve Mefisto's complaint in 80 (i.e., on a relative but not absolute basis per player). One way to solver that is to take the best xG and discard the others, but apportion the max xG between all the players that took a shot in the attack. (Same for assists.) There are multiple ways this apportionment could be done. I think I might have read that at least one system does it this way, but in truth I have paid relatively little attention to xG and xA on the player level, as it's already noisy enough already when aggregated over a whole team.

edit: maybe not after all! The point in 83 is good, and I don't that it is being aggregated well right now.
   85. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 05, 2019 at 12:24 PM (#5812299)
Opta is the main data source for publicly available xG currently. I think they still use the "big chance" factor but don't track defenders between ball and goal. See OPTA summary of events from last year. Though I don't think it is being used for xG or xA, they also track something called "chance missed", which they define as "A big chance opportunity when the player does not get a shot away, typically given for big chance attempts where the player shooting completely misses the ball (air shot) but can also be given when the player has a big chance opportunity to shoot and decides not to, resulting in no attempt occurring in that attack."
   86. Mefisto Posted: February 05, 2019 at 12:54 PM (#5812322)
Clearly we need to get MCOA in here to discuss this. :)
   87. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 05, 2019 at 05:05 PM (#5812490)
Exciting finish in the DFB Pokal. Both Dortmund and now Bremen have scored in extras. Dortmund's goal was Pulisic on a give and go.

And now Dortmund gets another. That should do it...

Bremen players upset because Dortmund got the ball back via a handling that wasn't called--led to the offensive play.

edit: nope. Another Bremen goal off a corner. 3-3 now. 119th minute.
   88. spivey Posted: February 05, 2019 at 05:30 PM (#5812510)
Really nice action by Pulisic in his goal. Too bad for Dortmund, they lose it in penalties. They played a pretty competitive lineup, though they took Reus off at half which leads me to think they were only partially going for this.

Also, just looking at this, it seems like each teams had 4 subs. Is that normal in the Pokal?
   89. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 05, 2019 at 05:33 PM (#5812511)
Dortmund out of the cup. Pulisic didn't get a penalty shot. Alcacer and Phillip missed for Dortmund. Dortmund only was able to take 4 shots because Bremen didn't miss.
   90. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 05, 2019 at 05:33 PM (#5812513)

Also, just looking at this, it seems like each teams had 4 subs.
Probably the extra time rule. I think a lot of leagues are using this now.

edit: City brought in Iheanacho against Arsenal in extra time two years ago in the FA cup semis.
   91. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 06, 2019 at 02:52 PM (#5812845)
Coming into this game, Everton still has to play all of the top 6--they're the only team in that situation (even all the top 6 have played at least one of the others twice). More strangely, they have 5 of those 6 at home. On top of that, all of their road games are against teams probably in the bottom half of the league, though I guess it depends where you put Watford.

Does the home/road split portend well of poor for Everton? It's not clear, but it certainly increases leverage--playing the best teams at home and the worst on the road means they will be playing a fair number of games that could easily go either way.

As an aside, does anyone know why the Chelsea/Bournemouth game isn't also being made up early today? It has to be moved somewhere.
   92. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 07, 2019 at 01:02 PM (#5813232)
It's the Chelsea/Brighton game (not Bournemouth) that has to be made up, and if I hadn't made that mistake I would have been able to answer my own question, as Brigthon had an FA cup replay yesterday. I guess they'll make up the Chelsea game later.

Fixture congestion for Chelsea has the potential to be a serious problem. If they make a long run in Europa to the semis (maybe not that unlikely, especially if they are thinking of it as a backup plan for CL qualification), I think they would only have 2 or 3 dates to make up the game: 4/3, 4/24 (and maybe the week after the season ends, 5/15?) Then, if they also make a run in the FA cup they could have to reschedule one or two more games (the Chelsea/Everton game on 3/17 would have to be moved if Chelsea beats United, and if Chelsea advances to the semis of the FA cup, they'd also have to reschedule the West Ham game on 4/6).

Going the distance in the EFL cup, FA cup and Europa, since it has one more round than CL, is the perfect storm of congestion. Maybe they'll lose to United and make this moot.
   93. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: February 09, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5813925)
Wijnaldum scored a bonkers goal for Liverpool's 2nd. Perfect first touch and then a close range chip on his second touch. Salah has a great half volley effort blocked by a diving Boruc just now. Mane scored the opening goal, Bournemouth says he was offside but if so it was by inches.

Edit: taken from a tv screen, but that goal is exquisite even so.
   94. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 09, 2019 at 11:24 AM (#5813935)
Somehow Dortmund blew a 3 goal lead at home in 12 minutes late in the second half. Ended in a draw.
   95. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 09, 2019 at 01:27 PM (#5813954)
Huge win for Cardiff. Looks like a steal based on xG (1.7-0.5 in favor of Southampton).
   96. spivey Posted: February 09, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5813957)
Cavani got hurt today and he may not be fit for the CL game against Man U.

PSG is much less scary without Neymar and Cavani.
   97. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:28 AM (#5814051)
I generally think Michael Oliver is a good ref, but he had a real stinker that half. And ####### Harry Maguire, takes Son completely out and then sticks his finger in Son's face in all the self righteousness he can muster. And Oliver completely bought it, because, good English lad, that one...
   98. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:36 AM (#5814055)
Yeah it should not have been a caution for Son. I'm happy it wasn't called a penalty though... Son threw himself to the ground after minor contact with the ball going away from goal and no threat at all that Tottenham might score. If the exact play had happened anywhere else on the field except in a dangerous reee kick area, Son almost certainly doesn't down throw himself down (because anywhere else on the field probably no foul is called probably most of the time). Not all contact should be a penalty. This one could have gone either way for me, but I think it's against the spirit of the rules to effectively give a goal on a play like that. They need to change the penalty rule yesterday.

"takes Son completely out" is not at all an accurate description of that play, btw. Maquire, like all defenders, is justly upset when a player throws himself down unnecessarily on minimal contact trying to draw a penalty, even if there was contact. I could definitely do without the pointing in the face, but like the original embellishment, it's a way to work the ref.
   99. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:48 AM (#5814059)
That seemed like a bad call. Should not have been a penalty.

edit: I'm not sure I've ever seen a player subbed on to take a penalty like that.
   100. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:56 AM (#5814061)
Oliver has been shocking today. Fortunately it's 2-0 right now despite that.
Page 1 of 12 pages  1 2 3 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Francis
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogMLB umpires missed 34,294 ball-strike calls in 2018, study shows
(195 - 12:12pm, Apr 18)
Last: Greg Pope

NewsblogWhite Sox-Royals benches clear, managers go after each other | The Kansas City Star
(11 - 12:11pm, Apr 18)
Last: jacksone (AKA It's OK...)

NewsblogContract Extension Fever Isn’t Just About Economics | FanGraphs Baseball
(51 - 12:01pm, Apr 18)
Last: .

Sox TherapyWe Can Be Concerned Now
(37 - 11:49am, Apr 18)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 4-18-2019
(8 - 11:42am, Apr 18)
Last: TDF, trained monkey

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (April 2019)
(330 - 11:27am, Apr 18)
Last: Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day

Newsblog'Major League' turns 30: How a Dodgers hero helped turn Hollywood stars into a real baseball team
(13 - 11:21am, Apr 18)
Last: Greg Pope

NewsblogExclusive: Giants acknowledge it’s finally time to explore moving in the fences at Oracle Park – The Athletic
(25 - 10:39am, Apr 18)
Last: SoSH U at work

NewsblogOT - NBA thread (Playoffs through off-season)
(86 - 10:30am, Apr 18)
Last: shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now

Gonfalon Cubs2019 Season Predictions
(75 - 10:04am, Apr 18)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

NewsblogBrian Cashman defends Yankees medical staff after Greg Bird injury
(13 - 8:50am, Apr 18)
Last: bunyon

NewsblogOrioles’ Chris Davis hits home run vs. Red Sox
(9 - 8:39am, Apr 18)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Kahuna

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread, v.2019
(1161 - 4:37am, Apr 18)
Last: Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle

NewsblogWe want OMNICHATTER!, not a belly scratcher, for April 17, 2019
(64 - 11:27pm, Apr 17)
Last: Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

NewsblogThe Dark, Existential Reality of Pitching Is Here For Clayton Kershaw | SI.com
(9 - 11:13pm, Apr 17)
Last: Hank Gillette

Page rendered in 0.6567 seconds
46 querie(s) executed