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Wednesday, January 30, 2019

OT Soccer Thread, v.2019

Looks like the last thread is closed, so onto the new!

Upcoming Matches of Interest
2/3 Madrid Derby
2/4 Manchester City v. Arsenal
2/10 Manchester City v. Chelsea
2/12 Manchester United v. PSG
2/13 Tottenham v. Dortmund
2/19 Liverpool v. Bayern Munich
2/24 Manchester United v. Liverpool
2/28 Chelsea v. Tottenham
3/2 North London Derby, Merseyside Derby, & El Classico
3/5 Dortmund v. Tottenham
3/9 Arsenal v. Manchester United
3/13 Bayern Munich v. Liverpool
3/16 Manchester Derby
3/30 Liverpool v. Tottenham

The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 30, 2019 at 07:08 PM | 2067 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: soccer

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   801. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 02, 2019 at 03:22 PM (#5827940)
flop
   802. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 02, 2019 at 03:51 PM (#5827948)
When Cardiff City played in the FA Cup Final several years ago, wasn't there a controversy about whether they could play in the Europa League if they won, because the FA represents England, and Cardiff is in Wales? They lost so the point was moot, but I'm sure there was some controversy.
   803. aberg Posted: April 02, 2019 at 04:05 PM (#5827951)
This is probably not a problem that needs a solution, but still something I was thinking about this week. What if there was a rule in England that teams in the CL (or even in EL) cannot also be in the League Cup (or FA Cup, but that seems to still have some prestige)? I like cup runs by smaller teams, and it kind of takes away some of the intrigue when it's mostly big, top-6 sides in the late rounds. A lightweight version could be that players who have played in European competition that season aren't eligible for that cup, so a team like City could still play, but it would be heavily rotated and mainly youth players. Wouldn't that be a fun wrinkle?
   804. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 02, 2019 at 04:15 PM (#5827958)
There is the EFL Trophy, which is limited to clubs from EFL League One and EFL League Two, the third and fourth tiers of the English football league system and, since the 2016–17 season, 16 under-21 sides from Premier League and EFL Championship clubs. That's pretty close to what you suggest.
   805. Mefisto Posted: April 02, 2019 at 04:45 PM (#5827962)
United really pulled out all the stops to drop points today: miss 2 sitters; allow the tying goal on a shockingly sloppy giveaway; get a player sent off for an unnecessary challenge; score the winner on an OG.
   806. aberg Posted: April 02, 2019 at 04:50 PM (#5827963)
Maybe it wasn't the best idea to appoint a manager whose name (OGS) literally translates to "own goals."
   807. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 02, 2019 at 05:13 PM (#5827968)
I miss santi cazorla in the premier league. His through pass for villareal’s fourth goal was inch perfect. Barca about to lose and going to be angry for champions league. United is going to be up against it.
   808. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 02, 2019 at 05:13 PM (#5827969)

Bolton will have to play their next two league matches behind closed doors after the club’s safety advisory group decided the Championship strugglers could not guarantee fans at the University of Bolton Stadium would be safe.

The safety group, made up of representatives the local council, police and emergency services, informed the EFL on Tuesday that it had placed a prohibition notice on the club under the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975.

The news comes a day before the club are due in the high court, facing a winding-up petition from HMRC for £1.2m in unpaid tax and other debts.

Bolton told the group it could not address its concerns until after that hearing, prompting the safety experts to rule that supporters will be prevented from entering the ground for the games against Ipswich on Saturday and Middlesbrough next Tuesday.

An EFL spokesman said: “Whilst disappointed, the EFL understands the rationale for the position taken by the safety advisory group at this time.

“However, we still hope the fixtures will take place as planned. We will work with the club and offer them any practical assistance that is available to us in an attempt to find a successful and timely resolution.”

Bolton are five points from safety and their players are on a 48-hour strike after staff wages were not paid on time for the second month in a row.


What a sad, sad mess.
   809. frannyzoo Posted: April 02, 2019 at 10:58 PM (#5828070)
Bolton was my first adopted EPL team when I started caring again about such things, and before I fully understood just how boring Sam Allardyce football really was. Bolton 2005 was something special. 2019 is evidently something the opposite of special.

Speaking of special, doesn't the air just smell sweeter and isn't the world more amenable when Man U lose, especially to Wolves? I can swear this hamburger tastes so much better today! Colors are more vivid!
   810. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 02, 2019 at 11:45 PM (#5828074)
United really pulled out all the stops to drop points today: miss 2 sitters; allow the tying goal on a shockingly sloppy giveaway; get a player sent off for an unnecessary challenge; score the winner on an OG.


It would have been hilarious if a "Solskjaer OUT!" chant had started reverberating around the ground.

   811. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 03, 2019 at 08:29 AM (#5828099)
Bolton was my first adopted EPL team when I started caring again about such things,


Bolton was the first team I ever "managed" in FM (v.2010). Not exactly sure why I picked them anymore, other than probably they seemed to have a decent sized stadium and their nickname, "Wanderers", reminded me of Tolkien.

Not all those who wander are lost, but they certainly seem to have been since then.

The next club I chose in FM was Blackpool, so I could certainly pick them ...
   812. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 03, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5828236)
Happy Spurs new stadium opening day (####### finally) ... hopefully.

[edit]
Tottenham Hotspur: Lloris, Trippier, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Davies, Sissoko, Alli, Son, Eriksen, Rose, Kane. Subs: Sanchez, Winks, Wanyama, Walker-Peters, Foyth, Gazzaniga, Lucas Moura.

Is Rose playing in the attacking band???
   813. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 03, 2019 at 02:23 PM (#5828249)
Huh, according to NBCSN, he's the left AM.

That is ... different, for sure.
   814. aberg Posted: April 03, 2019 at 02:37 PM (#5828256)
Huh, according to NBCSN, he's the left AM.


And Alli is playing behind them in the pivot?
   815. Jose is Absurdly Unemployed Posted: April 03, 2019 at 02:41 PM (#5828259)
Not surprisingly the Spurs intro is not an understated event.

If I were City I'd be less than thrilled about drawing Spurs for the CL. City should be able to win but a champions league quarterfinal in just the second game in the stadium that's going to be a pretty crazy atmosphere I would think.
   816. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 03, 2019 at 03:36 PM (#5828283)
Spurs dominate the first half but can't find a goal.
   817. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 03, 2019 at 03:58 PM (#5828296)
Spurs dominate the first half but can't find a goal.


Such a surprise ...

Thank Son ...
   818. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 03, 2019 at 04:18 PM (#5828312)
Son and a massive deflection, but I'll sure take that stroke of luck!
   819. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 03, 2019 at 04:32 PM (#5828318)
Son and a massive deflection, but I'll sure take that stroke of luck!


And that one!
   820. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 05, 2019 at 04:38 PM (#5829058)
Hey ... Mo Salah is still really ####### good ...
   821. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 05, 2019 at 04:47 PM (#5829062)
Sourhampton’s Defense regressed to the mean.
   822. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 05, 2019 at 05:00 PM (#5829064)
MO ####### SALAH! LIVERPOOL'S WINNING THE LEAGUE.
   823. KronicFatigue Posted: April 05, 2019 at 05:03 PM (#5829065)
Are 100% of neutrals rooting for Liverpool over Man City? I hope so.
   824. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 05, 2019 at 05:11 PM (#5829066)
United fans apparently are rooting for city because city has done it recently and everyone can just say ‘city just bought it.’ if Liverpool were to win it it would be similar to the cubs or Red Sox winning.
   825. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 05, 2019 at 06:48 PM (#5829081)
Are 100% of neutrals rooting for Liverpool over Man City? I hope so.


I'd prefer Liverpool, but I'm fine with either.
   826. Mefisto Posted: April 05, 2019 at 08:01 PM (#5829086)
I'm rooting for City. I don't have much emotional investment in that -- I wouldn't be crushed if Liverpool won it -- but I prefer City.
   827. Jose is Absurdly Unemployed Posted: April 05, 2019 at 08:22 PM (#5829091)
I am definitely rooting for Liverpool. I dislike City for no good or valid reason though with Pep there it’s easier. I don’t dislike Pep I just don’t like the style his teams play. It’s obviously great and amazing soccer but in the end it feels like an attacking version of 10 men behind the ball. Just endless possession and eventually they put the ball in the net. I’m fully aware of how ridiculous that sounds but like I said, it’s just a visceral thing not any kind of logical thing.

Liverpool on the other hand are just buckets of fun. The pressing, the flash, I really enjoy watching them play.
   828. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 05, 2019 at 09:14 PM (#5829106)
United fans apparently are rooting for city because city has done it recently and everyone can just say ‘city just bought it.’ if Liverpool were to win it it would be similar to the cubs or Red Sox winning.


The Liverpool-Man U rivalry goes a lot deeper than that.
   829. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 06, 2019 at 11:05 AM (#5829167)
Remember that Serie A game where the defender jumped to try to play a cross, and before he came down the ball was volleyed against his hand while he was facing the other way, arm still outstretched from jumping to try to play the cross? Generally considered to have been a very bad call.

In the Leverkusen/Leipzig game, something similar just happened though it was much more of a gray area. The defender jumped to play the cross and was still turning to face the ball that had gone over his head and his arm came out while the ball was played against it. Given on VAR. I think it was a bad call... the defender didn't seem to be at all aware that the ball might be played against him when his arm came out, since he was still recovering from his jump to play the cross. Leipzig scored the penalty and is now up 3-2. A win effectively puts them in the CL and effectively eliminates Leverkusen from the CL.

edit: and then a sweet goal by Cunha finishes it. If you can catch a replay of that one I recommend it.
   830. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 06, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5829170)
More VAR excitement. Frankfurt in the last minute of stoppage time gets a shot off after a corner is rolled in to the top of the box. Hits a Schalke player in the hand, Play doesn't stop for 30 seconds and full time is blown. Then they go to VAR and penalty given.

Frankfurt scores the penalty and the game ends (immediately) 2-1 Frankfurt.
   831. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 06, 2019 at 12:11 PM (#5829175)
Sheffield United back above Leeds again in the race for the auto promotion. It's a 2-team race now, as Norwich is virtually assured of getting an auto promotion spot, and will very likely win the Championship.

The other playoff teams will be WBA, and probably Villa and maybe Bristol City, but a lot of other teams still have an outside shot.

And speaking of Bolton, they just lost, at home, to effectively relegated Ipswich. So now Bolton is going down as well.
   832. Richard Posted: April 06, 2019 at 12:34 PM (#5829178)
Villa are red hot at the moment and would probably be regarded as playoff favourites if the season ended today.

The race for the second slot (Norwich are home imho) is going to go to the last game.

   833. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 06, 2019 at 12:42 PM (#5829179)
I'm going to say that's not how Brighton drew up this match starting ...

Hell of a cross from De Bruyne.
   834. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 06, 2019 at 01:08 PM (#5829180)
Walker sure got lucky not to get sent off there.
   835. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 06, 2019 at 01:12 PM (#5829181)
It's a shooting gallery in Bayern. Up 3-0 now and there were at least three other very good saves by the Dortmund keeper. At 0-0 Dortmund missed an open goal, so maybe things could have been different.

edit: 4-0.

edit2: 15 shots and 8 corners in the first half.
   836. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 06, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5829182)
At this point, it's almost certainly going to be an embarrassingly bad loss for Dortmund, and they will be big underdogs again in the Bundesliga chase. But they could conceivably win out the rest of the way, in which case even one more slip-up by Bayern would give the title to Dortmund.

It's not that far-fetched, but Dortmund would have to beat both Bremen and Gladbach on the road.

Bayern still has a tough road game at Leipzig and finishes with Frankfurt at home. There's a decent chance both teams will have already qualified for the CL by then though.
   837. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 06, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5829183)
edit: 4-0.


Hey now ... it's an improvement from 5-0 down at half-time in this match last season!
   838. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 06, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5829196)
Dortmund had a hot start to the year and scored a lot of goals early, but there's no good reason, based on Bundesliga performance so far, to think they are much better this year than the past couple of years, and not significantly better than other top teams in the Bundesliga like Leipzig or Frankfurt.

They have now given up more goals than expected goals, so Favre hasn't been able to repeat that feat. And since their hot start where they finished all their chances at will, their xG has essentially matched their actual goals scored over the last 20 or so games.
   839. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 06, 2019 at 03:55 PM (#5829211)
Sigh

Police are investigating multiple allegations of racist abuse against Football League players – with Derby, Wigan and Northampton all reporting incidents.

Brentford confirmed a season-ticket holder was arrested at Griffin Park on Saturday after confronting Derby’s Duane Holmes, who was in the dugout having been substituted during their 3-3 draw. Holmes’s manager, Frank Lampard, said: “A fan came up to him and abused him … it was very clearly reported by the players and the people around.”

...

Wigan issued a statement after their winger Nathan Byrne posted an image of a grossly offensive direct message he received on Twitter after their 2-2 draw with Bristol City at Ashton Gate. Wigan said they had reported the racist abuse to police as a hate crime.

Northampton, meanwhile, said their players had been racially abused while walking through Nottingham before their League Two draw with Notts County. Northampton’s Timi Elsnik called it “the most disgusting thing I’ve seen and heard”.


Graun
   840. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 06, 2019 at 05:16 PM (#5829222)
Well, not entirely surprising. It will interesting to see what the fee is ...

Real Madrid and Chelsea have reached a deal for Eden Hazard that Marca describes as "imminent."

According to the report, Hazard will switch Stamford Bridge for the Bernabeu and is already keen on finding a place to live in the Spanish capital "for the next six years."

Real Madrid manager Zinedine Zidane has described Hazard as "a fantastic player" and said he has been following the Belgium international's career from an early age. Hazard, for his part, has never hidden his desire to one day play for Real Madrid.

The Marca report doesn't detail how much the potential deal would be worth, only stating that Madrid rebuffed Chelsea's initial asking price of €200 million.
   841. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 07, 2019 at 11:03 AM (#5829343)
Arsenal was severely outplayed by Everton in the 1-0 loss. That make the 7th through 11th best teams 5-0 on the week, but the one today was by far the best performance. Watford and Leicester had effectively relegated opponents, Wolves basically played Manchester United even at home, with United down a man half the game, and Palace was generally poor but won on penalty (ironically, they had the most to play for and played the worst).
Just as importantly, there aren't likely to be many games remaining this year with bottom of the table teams fighting tooth and nail to win, because Cardiff is likely to be in truly hopeless place after the next couple of road games against Brighton and Burnley, though of course you never know.
   842. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 07, 2019 at 01:15 PM (#5829360)
In preparation for the homestretch, second half xGD totals so far (understat, McoA, 538):

City +26 to +27

Liverpool +15 to +21

United +8 to +13

Leicester +6 to +7

Tottenham +3 to +5
Burnley +3 to +5
Arsenal +3 to +4
Chelsea +3 to +4

Wolves +1 to +2
Palace -2 to +3
Everton -1 to +1

Bournemouth -6 to -3
Newcastle -7 to -4
Brighton -7 to -4
Southampton -8 to -5
Watford -9 to -7

Fulham -11 to -10
Cardiff -11 to -10
West Ham -12 to -10

Huddersfield -17 to -13




   843. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 07, 2019 at 02:10 PM (#5829372)
Watford may not be in the top half of teams in the EPL--they're certainly no better than 10th (after Wolves, Leicester and Everton). There's a very decent argument that Palace and Burnley are better right now as well. I'm not going to be rooting for City in the FA Cup final, but I'd prefer it if one of the other three teams with a shot ended up getting the Europa spot ahead of Watford.

City is being given betting odds of at least 83% to win the FA Cup final. Combined with about 62% to win the EPL, that's over 50% for the domestic treble.

   844. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 07, 2019 at 07:33 PM (#5829450)
Always amusing to see a PSG fail:

https://deadspin.com/paris-saint-germains-eric-maxim-choupo-moting-delivers-1833871773
   845. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 08, 2019 at 08:10 AM (#5829504)
That was truly an epic fail by Choupo-Moting. All he had to do was literally nothing to score the goal.
   846. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 09, 2019 at 03:14 PM (#5830075)
Dubious VAR penalty awarded to City on Rose for handball (with a yellow to boot).

LLORIS SAVES!!!
   847. Mefisto Posted: April 09, 2019 at 03:29 PM (#5830085)
That was a dive by Dele.
   848. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 09, 2019 at 03:34 PM (#5830089)
It was a soft yellow, but I thought on replay, it looked like LaPorte just caught Dele's feet from behind.

Suppose it makes up for the bullshit yellow on Rose.
   849. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 09, 2019 at 03:39 PM (#5830091)
Feel bad for our resident Liverpool fans, having to pay to watch the match versus Porto, even though TNT is showing a rerun of Friends.

Never thought I'd long for the time when FOX had the CL ...
   850. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 09, 2019 at 03:45 PM (#5830101)
Nice spot on that elbow from Fernandinho, ref!

Oh ... wait.
   851. Mefisto Posted: April 09, 2019 at 03:49 PM (#5830105)
Ah, I missed the feet. I thought they called it for the arm on the shoulder, which was just a tap.
   852. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 09, 2019 at 03:51 PM (#5830107)
Dubious VAR penalty awarded to City on Rose for handball (with a yellow to boot).
The way the CL is called with VAR now, that was always going to be given. Sliding to block with an arm away from the body is textbook currently.

edit: I meant the penalty. No opinion on the yellow.
   853. Mefisto Posted: April 09, 2019 at 04:12 PM (#5830124)
Looks more open this half.
   854. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 09, 2019 at 04:15 PM (#5830128)
Oh, christ, Kane going off after rolling his ankle it looked like on a challenge he made on Delph.

That was on Kane, not Delph, totally unnecessary tackle to make.

Hello Europa my old friend, we're coming to talk with you again ...
   855. Mefisto Posted: April 09, 2019 at 04:20 PM (#5830130)
That's a damn shame for Kane and for Spurs.
   856. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 09, 2019 at 04:39 PM (#5830143)
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

[edit] ball didn't go out, but I think HMS was offside receiving the pass ...
   857. jmurph Posted: April 09, 2019 at 04:48 PM (#5830148)
I'm not watching but everyone online seems to agree with Mefisto that it's a clear offsides. Delightful, this VAR business.

EDIT: Seeing more disagreeing now.
   858. Mefisto Posted: April 09, 2019 at 04:56 PM (#5830154)
Terrific result for Spurs. I thought they looked lost after Kane went out, but Son saved them.
   859. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 09, 2019 at 04:56 PM (#5830155)
And ... exhale.

Still gonna be tough in the away match, but grab an away goal and???
   860. Mefisto Posted: April 09, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5830156)
Not me, but I did think he was off at first. Replay showed he was not.
   861. jmurph Posted: April 09, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5830157)
To revisit our conversation from earlier this season, I still think the league title is more important than the Champions League, but that calculation does NOT include losing to Spurs or any other Premier League team. Blurgh.
   862. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 09, 2019 at 05:02 PM (#5830160)
Decent game overall by Spurs, and of course a fantastic result. Missing Kane could hurt, obviously. Even 0-0 would have been a decent result for Spurs, certainly not a negative one. I don't think Pep was actually playing for 0-0, but if he was that would have been a mistake.

Liverpool didn't play that well, considering the talent disparity and that they were at home, but they also got a very good result.

edit: 538 has City/Spurs at 50/50 now.

   863. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 09, 2019 at 05:29 PM (#5830174)
Spurs kept a clean sheet against City. Even at home, this is shocking.
   864. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 09, 2019 at 05:30 PM (#5830176)
I get that by the current rules the handball penalty was a correct call. The current rules are horrendous if that's considered a foul. You literally can't slide in without your arms being in a least a somewhat raised position.
   865. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 09, 2019 at 05:34 PM (#5830179)
You literally can't slide in without your arms being in a least a somewhat raised position.
This is more or less true. To be fair, Rose's arm was way higher than that when he started his slide, which is probably why he got a yellow as well. I think the Rose play, considering the position of his arm, would more likely than not have been a penalty had it been seen clearly by the ref any time in the past 10 years, though of course was not always given. With VAR it was a virtual certainty.

edit: now I'm reading that if the shot appears to be on target the yellow is supposed to be automatic. I'd not sure if that is actually true though. What if a player already has a yellow? Sent off?
   866. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 09, 2019 at 05:37 PM (#5830182)
They were higher, but even in slo-mo he was clearly trying to bring his arms back towards his body. I'm not really sure what Rose could have done there, other than not try to block the shot at all. Which is...not really the correct way to defend.

And this is probably going to be seen through my particular bias towards Tottenham, but I just don't think that sort of thing should be a penalty.
   867. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 09, 2019 at 05:50 PM (#5830185)
I just don't think that sort of thing should be a penalty.
I'm fairly sympathetic to defenders in edge cases, including this one, though this one is far less harsh than many handballs we've seen given even before VAR. What I don't get is why so many fans are so forgiving of defenders on handballs but so unforgiving on minor and unintentional contact to the offensive player, especially on plays for which the danger of a goal was very low.

I'm not really sure what Rose could have done there, other than not try to block the shot at all
Fair or not, defenders are being asked to go into position for blocks with their hands tucked, a la John Terry. It's possible--just another skill to learn.
   868. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 09, 2019 at 06:12 PM (#5830195)
Interesting from a ref website. See video examples, which even penalize a hand going to ground to brace a player form the ground (which is even more harsh in my opinion). See video posted at #16 (near the bottom of the page).

Basically the defender is penalized for going into the slide if doing so will put his hand away from his body in a position that could block the shot/pass.

edit: here it is on youtube. Slide tackle examples a minute or two in.


   869. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 09, 2019 at 06:30 PM (#5830198)
The presentation was given in 2016 (potentially earlier as well), which I think was before any important competitions had VAR.

edit: Video also says that a handling on a shot on goal is automatic sanction (yellow). So the Rose play was textbook all the way around. Claims to be the "directives" and "interpretations" of FIFA.
   870. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 09, 2019 at 07:13 PM (#5830203)
What I don't get is why so many fans are so forgiving of defenders on handballs but so unforgiving on minor and unintentional contact to the offensive player, especially on plays for which the danger of a goal was very low.

I'm also not in favor of that. I know that rules have to be concrete, I just hate that an attacking player moving away from goal near the edge of the box with no goal threat can win a penalty. I think it's reasonable to try to give refs some discretion. No penalty unless it actually looks like a goal scoring opportunity.
   871. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: April 09, 2019 at 09:32 PM (#5830257)
I am very much a Filthy Casual when it comes to soccer so maybe this is the dumbest question in the history of the world, and I'm sure it's been brought up and shot down a million times on the internet, but: would it be the worst thing ever to have different classifications of penalties, and for things like "clearly incidental handball" and "foul near the edge of the box on a player who was not threatening to score" award a penalty attempt from, say, 18m instead of 11m, or something?
   872. Mefisto Posted: April 09, 2019 at 09:45 PM (#5830266)
The problem with that, as with suggestions like "denying a scoring opportunity", is that it just encourages defenders to commit fouls early on and prevents the attackers from even developing a scoring opportunity. That's contrary to the whole idea of a penalty area.
   873. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 09, 2019 at 11:40 PM (#5830284)
Of course the penalty rule needs to be changed. There are assuredly many better solutions than what we have now. I'd be hesitant to support a solution that gives refs even more discretion though, if it could be avoided.

City is being given about 59% betting odds to advance. With Liverpool almost through, that makes the betting odds for CL winner very, very tight at the moment (538 in parens):

Barca: 23% (25)
City: 23% (21)
Juve: 22% (8. hated by 538, loved by bettors)
Liverpool: 21% (30. loved by 538)

Spurs: 6% (8. mostly because bettors like City to advance over Tottenham at better than 50/50)
United: 4% (2. liked by bettors, disliked by 538)
Ajax: 2% (6. adored by 538)
Porto: --
   874. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 10, 2019 at 09:01 AM (#5830331)
So I know betting odds are posted as a proxy for strength of team, but I'm pretty sure we don't want to dive into talking about actual betting. Therefore I will just do a toe dip. Since it became legal in NJ, I've been successful in avoiding it, but March Madness sucked me in. I can now see why there are so many ads for sports betting and how owners of those sites have become successful enough to buy Premier League teams and sponsor everything. You can bet on anything and everything. Bet on who scores first, if a player is going to score, number of cards, number of offsides, etc.

Anyway, I'm tempted to bet something on United, because this is probably one of the few times the money is totally flooding the United side (although according to AuntBea's odds, it's still a little skewed).

Anything definitive yet on Kane?
   875. spivey Posted: April 10, 2019 at 09:31 AM (#5830345)
Tottenham/City thoughts:

Great first half from Tottenham, outside of the penalty (which we'll get to), I thought Tottenham were definitely the better side, though both teams struggled to create clear goal scoring chances, mainly due to some great last ditch defending on both sides.

As for the penalty, saw the arm real time and was worried even before they went to VAR. Rose's arm was pretty away from his body as he was going down but ultimately he was pulling it back in right before and at contact with the ball. I don't think this should be a PK, though if the shot was clearly going in in a situation like this, I'd maybe have a different tune. I agree with everyone here about changing and cleaning up the rule, which I think mostly has to do with different levels of penalties.

There will be a tough learning curve where announcers, fans, and players deal with penalties given like this. It isn't necessarily a bad thing in a vacuum, but will requires defenders to defend differently than they've done all of their life in some situations like this.

Kane getting hurt was bad luck and self-inflicted, which everyone seems to agree with.

Even as Man City started to control possession and tempo in the second half when Kane came off, they still weren't able to create great chances. The squad rotation is such that I really think Pep is valuing the league over the CL. I mean, he wants to win both, but Sane and DeBruyne coming on so late, some of that may be acting cautious, but I also wonder about wanting fresh legs in the run in. It's a real possibility the way both sides have played that City could have to win out to win the league. I'm sure Pep is thinking about that.

For Tottenham, great effort from all of the defenders and midfielders. Toby and Verts were in vintage form. Winks, Sissoko, and then the last 15 minutes of Wanyama were some of the best performances each has put in on the year imo. Not counting the penalty, xG was 0.7-0.6.

I think Tottenham is likely to drop points against a weak team in the league without Kane, and definitely like their chances less in the second leg. One goal chances the second leg of the tie a bunch, and of course Tottenham is way more likely to get that with Kane.
   876. spivey Posted: April 10, 2019 at 10:29 AM (#5830370)
Also, Son is a ####### legend.
   877. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 10, 2019 at 10:33 AM (#5830371)
Kane getting hurt really ####### sucks. I mean, not just for Tottenham fans, but for Liverpool fans who want to see City out of first place and out of the Champions League.
   878. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 10, 2019 at 11:01 AM (#5830386)
Anything definitive yet on Kane?


From the BBC:

Tottenham striker Harry Kane could miss the rest of the season with an ankle injury, says manager Mauricio Pochettino.
Kane, 25, will have an MRI scan on Wednesday after hobbling off during Tuesday's 1-0 win over Manchester City in the first leg of their Champions League quarter-final.
The England captain was seen leaving the stadium on crutches, with a protective boot on his left ankle.
"It's a worry for us," said Pochettino.
"We are going to miss him - maybe for the rest of the season. We hope it is not a big issue but there is not to much time to recover. He twisted his ankle so we will see how it reacts in a few hours."
   879. Jose is Absurdly Unemployed Posted: April 10, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5830399)
Barcelona and Spain have done alright with a defender named PK.
   880. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 10, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5830459)
Somehow, I missed this when it happened and I'm very, very sorry, since Fernandinho should have been sent off about 3 times over (christ, Bjorn Kuipers was trash):

I heart Danny Rose!
   881. Mefisto Posted: April 10, 2019 at 02:34 PM (#5830488)
United's midfield today is, well, "pathetic" comes to mind.
   882. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 10, 2019 at 03:33 PM (#5830519)
Ouch for Messi. Should have been a foul, but mostly for coming through the back. Not sure that wasn't a penalty on Pique too.
   883. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: April 10, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5830539)
I am very much a Filthy Casual when it comes to soccer so maybe this is the dumbest question in the history of the world, and I'm sure it's been brought up and shot down a million times on the internet, but: would it be the worst thing ever to have different classifications of penalties, and for things like "clearly incidental handball" and "foul near the edge of the box on a player who was not threatening to score" award a penalty attempt from, say, 18m instead of 11m, or something?

There is of course a distinction between different kind of fouls in the penalty box. If they are bad you get booked as well as the penalty. If they are really bad you get sent off.

Also, a "clearly incidental handball" should not be a foul. I know they are about as successful at defining what is incidental, as the NFL is in defining what a catch is... but that is at least the intention.
   884. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 10, 2019 at 04:05 PM (#5830550)
Smalling got Messi with the follow through, I thought it was clean. United was able to get some chances even with Fred and mctominay in the midfield. Hopefully that can continue and they can get a goal or two.
   885. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 10, 2019 at 04:26 PM (#5830556)
United played a very good first 20 minutes of the second half, aside from that chance from Suarez. Ajax is really taking it to Juve right now as well.
   886. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 10, 2019 at 04:55 PM (#5830569)
United lost some of the early second-half energy, but still played quite well in the second half. There's a strong argument that their offense was the weakest part of their game today. In the end, the midfield and defense played very well considering the opposition.
   887. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: April 10, 2019 at 04:56 PM (#5830571)
Yeah, pity United didn't bring their shooting boots. Ended something like 10 shots, none on target... Could have been an interesting return leg, otherwise. But as it stands, Barca have to be heavy favourites to go on.
   888. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 10, 2019 at 06:42 PM (#5830609)
The midfield of Fred mctominay and Pogba worked. I like that Fred and mctominay were active and more importantly, mobile. Matic would have been overruned.
   889. Mefisto Posted: April 10, 2019 at 06:53 PM (#5830612)
I don't regret my comment about United's midfield, but Fred and McTominay played very well today.
   890. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: April 11, 2019 at 11:44 AM (#5830804)
Dele Alli reportedly has broken hand, will miss Huddersfield, may be available against City next week.

Is New White Hart Lane constructed on an ancient burial ground?
   891. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 11, 2019 at 03:06 PM (#5830910)
So I have the option to watch Villareal - Valencia, Chelsea - Slava Prague or Arsenal - Napoli. The benefits to having a lot of Spanish speakers in my area.


Thanks tnt.
   892. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 11, 2019 at 03:29 PM (#5830933)
Torreira wins the ball well, does well to get into a shooting position, but then it needs a horrific deflection to be a goal. 2-0 Arsenal.
   893. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 11, 2019 at 03:47 PM (#5830949)
Napoli haven't done that much other than that good Insigne chance just before halftime.
   894. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 11, 2019 at 03:57 PM (#5830958)
Plus arsenal has gotten so many half chances, beyond the two goals.
   895. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 11, 2019 at 04:03 PM (#5830959)
Frankfurt with the early sending off. That's going to make things difficult. If they lose by just a goal with, with an away goal, they still have a very good chance.

edit: and they can't. That red card was for an intentional foul in the box with no attempt to play the ball on clear goal-scoring opportunity. What a mistake by the defender--just letting him score would have been way better.

edit: 4-1 now. One bad error and the tie was lost. It seems.
   896. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 11, 2019 at 04:10 PM (#5830965)
Napoli have had the ball in the net twice but they were a mile offside both times.
   897. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 11, 2019 at 04:17 PM (#5830969)
I haven't been watching Chelsea, but so far they only have 55% of possession and 3 shots, none on goal. That's not very good considering the opposition.
   898. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 11, 2019 at 04:28 PM (#5830976)
I switched to Chelsea. Hazard did not start so that probably explains their lack of offensive output. Prague has gotten a bit of pressure since he did come on
   899. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 11, 2019 at 04:33 PM (#5830981)
Frankfurt pulled one back.

Arsenal has had so many chances, but it's not like they've been airtight at the back either. xG might be getting up near 3-1 at this point (just a WAG... haven't been able to watch too closely)
   900. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 11, 2019 at 04:50 PM (#5830987)
Valencia with two very late goals probably ends the dream for Villarreal. 1-3 now.
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