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Tuesday, May 29, 2018

OT: Soccer Thread (World Cup)

We’ve gotten through Champions League and most of the relegation/promotion stuff so we may as well focus on the World Cup. And what a World Cup, Buffon playing his sixth, Pulisic making his WC debut, quality on-site reporting from Fox and two time Copa America champs Chile just part of what should make for an amazing tournament!  Plus of course the the family-friendly, inclusive atmosphere sure to be fostered by the Russians.

Group A - Russia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Uruguay
Group B - Portugal, Spain, Morocco, Iran
Group C - France, Australia, Peru, Denmark
Group D - Argentina, Iceland, Croatia, Nigeria
Group E - Brazil, Switzerland, Costa Rica, Serbia
Group F - Germany, Mexico, Sweden, South Korea
Group G - Belgium, Panama, Tunisia, England
Group H - Poland, Senegal, Colombia, Japan

Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: May 29, 2018 at 09:57 AM | 3354 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, soccer

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   3301. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5715112)

Malcom to Roma is evidently off. Both clubs had announced the deal pending a medical and he was actually on a plane that turned around. Probably going to Barcelona now which raises even more questions. Why is a team that has Dembele going after guys like Malcom and Willian? Could just be adding depth, but Barcelona might actually be looking to loan or sell Dembele. Which I thought was crazy talk. Barcelona’s transfer policy has been all over the place.


The transfer to Barca is official: €41m euros (£36.5m), slightly more than what Roma bid.
   3302. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5715141)
Everton spend 40 million quid for Richarlison. Everton gonna Everton.
   3303. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5715142)
Also, the Thierry Henry rumors about taking over as manager of Villa are growing stronger. Villa gonna Villa.
   3304. Palm Beach Pollworker Posted: July 24, 2018 at 04:56 PM (#5715219)
Premiership Rumours and Realities

- ManU prepared to pay €60m for Boateng

- Chelsea have interest in Jack Butland

- Leicester City sign Louis Ramsay

- Barca lose interest in Willian, pursue Malcolm instead (and got him)

- Leicester prepared to fight to keep ManU's grubby mitts off Maguire

- Liverpool talking to Besiktas about Domagoj Vida

- Kingsley Coman denies interest in a furture at Emirates (see yesterday)

- Chelsea buy Pepe Reina for £9m

- Phenom Hudson-Odoi to be offered five-year contract by Chelsea

- Sturridge to stay at Liverpool

- Leicester City lend Harvey Barnes to West Bromwich Albion, done deal

- Piotr Zielinski could join Sarri and Jorginho at Chelsea

- Arturo Vidal wants move to ManU

- Fabri to Fulham: Official

- Werder Bremen inquire after Everton's Danny Klaasen

- Courtois to Real Madrid, agreement reached

- Turkish club borrow Crystal Palace's Jarowslaw Jach

- ManU 'mystery team' offering €100m to Napoli for Koulibaly

- Porto after West Ham's Cheikhou Koyaté

- ManU takes interest in Yerny Mina

- Guardiola: "Not interested in Pjanic"

- Feberbahce want to borrow Spurs' Janssen

- Yerny Mina prefers Lyon to Everton

- Golovin to choose between Monaco and Chelsea

- Everton announce signing of Richarlison

- Chelsea are getting Rob Green on a free
   3305. Palm Beach Pollworker Posted: July 24, 2018 at 05:39 PM (#5715241)
UEFA Champions League Qualifying

I caught a bit of the second half of Red Star Belgrade vs Suduva. Red Star looked totally dominant, and ran out 3-0 winners.

Legia Warsaw suffered an embarrassing 0-2 defeat at home to the Slovene side Spartak Tmava. The winner of this draw would play Red Star if the Serbian's lead holds up.

PAOK beat Basel 2-1, but the Swiss side scored an away goal which is always useful.

Celtic, Qarabag and Ajax, the other teams I highlighted in my last CL post, play tomorrow.

Since winning through against Valur, Rosenborg, Celtic's opponents tomorrow, sacked their manager Kare Ingebrigtsen last week, provoking outcries from both the team's fans and its players.
   3306. ckash Posted: July 24, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5715243)
Reina, Green and Willy C. as the 3-headed replacement for Courtois? That's underwhelming to say the least. It's not even impressive enough to call it a triumvirate.
   3307. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 05:47 PM (#5715252)
Where is that Courtois transfer confirmed*, I don't see any mention of it on the Graun or ESPNFC sites ...

* Not that I don't expect it to happen
   3308. Palm Beach Pollworker Posted: July 24, 2018 at 07:05 PM (#5715285)
Tweet about Courtois' agreement.(en Français)

NB: Remember the 'rumours' part of 'rumours and realities'. I just aggregate stuff.
   3309. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 08:44 PM (#5715342)
I seem to recall a lot of rumors of Malcom to Tottenham in January. Not to belittle my own favored team, but Barca is a pretty big upgrade for him.
   3310. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 08:47 PM (#5715344)
I seem to recall a lot of rumors of Malcom to Tottenham in January. Not to belittle my own favored team, but Barca is a pretty big upgrade for him.


True, but as a Spurs fan, getting Moura eases the pain ... I'm excited to watch him this preseason, starting tomorrow!
   3311. Chicago Joe Posted: July 24, 2018 at 09:50 PM (#5715389)
Everton spend 40 million quid for Richarlison. Everton gonna Everton.


TBF, a chunk of that is blood money for Silva.
   3312. J. Sosa Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5715418)
Re: Bordeaux/Malcom

Monchi alleges that Bordeaux called saying it was best for them to announce the deal prior to the medical which Monchi asked them not to do because Roma is bound by certain restrictions and regulations. Bordeaux did it anyway which is why Roma had to confirm it from their end. Then Bordeaux essentially tried to shake down Roma for more money. Twice.

If all of that is true, boy, Bordeaux’s president and staff are unethical small time bastards. Clubs get leveraged all the time for auctions on players, but you don’t release a tweet saying a deal is done when one party is a publically traded company and then refuse to complete the deal but for a few dollars more.

That is disgusting behavior even in the sordid transfer world.
   3313. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 25, 2018 at 08:29 AM (#5715479)
Bonucci may be headed back to Juventus in a deal involving Higuain. Italian soccer is weird. It's like this mix of rabid loyalty and completely mercenary.
   3314. Richard Posted: July 25, 2018 at 09:30 AM (#5715497)
That Richarlison deal is really stupid. Did Everton learn nothing from last season?
   3315. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 25, 2018 at 09:40 AM (#5715500)
At least Richarlison was in the Premier League last year so he's a little more proven than Davy Klaassen.
   3316. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 25, 2018 at 09:47 AM (#5715511)
All the Richarlison hype came in the first third of the season and he was the dog's breakfast after that. Now, it so happens that Richarlison's hot streak coincided with Silva being there and he turned into the dog's breakfast when Silva left so Silva may think he's a Richarlison whisperer. But, man, he sure seems like a luxury purchase for a team that needs desperate help in defense and the midfield.
   3317. jmurph Posted: July 25, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5715561)
For some odd reason there are a bunch of overlapping ICC games tonight, with three taking place at once including two with the same start time, followed by two taking place at once. I'm not personally a tv mogul but this doesn't seem like a great way to maximize eyeballs.
   3318. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 25, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5715594)
I didn't know this about homegrown transfers, I always thought MLS took its grubby cut from all of them:


Vancouver Whitecaps prodigy Alphonso Davies was in Philadelphia on Wednesday to undergo a medical with Bayern Munich as he looks to complete his MLS-record move to the Bundesliga champions, a source with knowledge of the deal told ESPN FC.

Bayern are in the U.S. for the International Champions Cup, and will take on Juventus on Wednesday night at Lincoln Financial Field (7:05 p.m. ET, ESPNU).

The six-time defending Bundesliga champions will pay €11.5 million in a base fee for Davies, with total compensation reaching €18.75 million should performance-related add-ons be reached, the source said. The deal also includes a sell-on clause that could see Vancouver earn as much as €20m-€25m.

Because Davies is a homegrown player, the Whitecaps will be able to keep all of the transfer fee, rather than share a sizable portion with MLS.


Here's hoping it's a good move for the kid ...
   3319. jmurph Posted: July 25, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5715646)
Hmm, I'm not seeing this anywhere else, but maybe this is true?
He calls the Italian league Serie A’s U.S. broadcasting exposure over the last few years “bullshit,” but is now upbeat on the prospects over the next few years, since the league sold international rights to IMG for $433 million last fall. Now, games in the U.S. will air on ESPN and the new sports streaming service DAZN (pronounced Da Zone, and run by former ESPN exec John Skipper).
   3320. PreservedFish Posted: July 25, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5715652)
Here's hoping it's a good move for the kid ...



What's the current thinking on this? Best for America's bright young prospects to go to the tried-and-true European academies? I remember debate about this when Freddy Adu was a teenager.
   3321. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 25, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5715654)
Hmm, I'm not seeing this anywhere else, but maybe this is true?

I'm not seeing that anywhere. Nearest I can find is that ESPN or TNT are the favorites. Either one is better than BeIn. They better hurry, though!
   3322. PreservedFish Posted: July 25, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5715658)
DAZN (pronounced Da Zone)

Oh dear.
   3323. jmurph Posted: July 25, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5715659)
I'm not seeing that anywhere. Nearest I can find is that ESPN or TNT are the favorites. Either one is better than BeIn. They better hurry, though!

It occurred to me the Roma owner could be accidentally breaking embargoed news? Or it's just BS.
   3324. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 25, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5715663)
DAZN seems to be a streaming service in Italy and they do have rights to some games for streaming in Italy. Pallotta himself doesn't mention anything about who has the rights so it seems the writer of the article is confused or misinformed.
   3325. jmurph Posted: July 25, 2018 at 01:02 PM (#5715668)
I clicked around a little. DAZN is planning to launch in the US in September, apparently, so it would roughly line up. The part that doesn't make sense is "ESPN and DAZN," given that ESPN operates its own pay streaming service already.
   3326. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: July 25, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5715710)
What's the current thinking on this? Best for America's bright young prospects to go to the tried-and-true European academies? I remember debate about this when Freddy Adu was a teenager.


I think it's a mixed bag. A player should be challenged so if he can play in the Bundesliga, he should. However, a player also needs playing time. I don't think anyone benefits from sitting on the bench every week just getting some training sessions in. Long story short a player should strive to play in the best league he can get regular playing time in. I'd be shocked if Davies is genuinely going to get time on the pitch for Bayern.
   3327. PreservedFish Posted: July 25, 2018 at 01:56 PM (#5715715)
So what's in it for Bayern then? Just one of many similar low-risk investments, and if he sucks, they don't care?
   3328. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 25, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5715729)
Long story short a player should strive to play in the best league he can get regular playing time in. I'd be shocked if Davies is genuinely going to get time on the pitch for Bayern.


This. I think moving to the Bundesliga is a smart move, but I don't think moving to Bayern is ...

I'm sure the money is nice, though, so he's got that going for him ... at the moment.
   3329. spivey Posted: July 25, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5715774)
Given his age surely Bayern will have him play on their B team or just re-loan him to a worse team in the Bundesliga, right?

We were talking about managers breaking in new players and jmurph mentioned Pep isn't great at it and Mourinho is known for struggling with it. But it's tough when you're a really top tier team. I mean, at that level, there are fully developed, world class players that are sitting on the bench not getting many minutes. Let alone guys that are more promise than goods. I think there's a lot to be said for letting other teams do your development for you when you're that elite.
   3330. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: July 25, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5715775)
So what's in it for Bayern then? Just one of many similar low-risk investments, and if he sucks, they don't care?


Pretty much. I assume soccer teams need their equivalent of the backup Single A catcher. Everyone knows they are never going to amount to anything but they need someone to be the opponent while the first team runs around and does their thing in training.

I'm not saying Davies can't be very good but it's Bayern Munich. If they want a striker they will go after Kane or M'Bappe or someone like that.
   3331. PreservedFish Posted: July 25, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5715779)
That's actually something that's puzzled me about soccer. What's it like to be the backup goalie on Real Madrid or Bayern? Is it a better job than being the starter in the second division? Who gets paid more? Is an elite team's backup likely to be better than a mediocre team's starter? The simplistic American structure doesn't allow for such complexities.

All of my scanty knowledge of these topics comes from Football Manager, basically. It always seems like a shame to hoard backups, guys that could be playing elsewhere, and have them stuck on your reserves.
   3332. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: July 25, 2018 at 03:07 PM (#5715795)
So what's in it for Bayern then?

Locking in all those Canadian fans?
Edit: Bayern was also home to the other semi-well known Canadian player, Owen Hargreaves.
   3333. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 25, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5715822)
If they want a striker they will go after Kane or M'Bappe or someone like that.


Except, when have they ever done that?

Who is their record incoming transfer? transfermarkt has it as Corentin Tolisso at £37.35m

I just can't see them stumping up the 200 million plus for someone like Kane or Mbappe, not when they can pick the bones of the rest of the Bundesliga with a little foresight ...
   3334. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 25, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5715829)
Edit: Bayern was also home to the other semi-well known Canadian player, Owen Hargreaves.

Aw, I think you're underselling poor Hargreaves, here. He was a pretty big star. A starter for both Bayern, Man U and England in a World Cup.
   3335. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 25, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5715832)
I think there's a lot to be said for letting other teams do your development for you when you're that elite.


I guess the question is, what value is that "development"? Obviously, playing actual matches has to be of some benefit, but what would be more valuable, if you were Pep, for example, keeping a player at home, even though they might only start a couple of Cup matches, but where they would be training towards the team's philosophy, or loan them out to a team where, even though they would be a locked on starter, they'd be learning the delicate intricacies of "Pulis-ball"?
   3336. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 25, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5715833)
Most well known Canadian players in recent memory

- Owen Hargreaves
- Asmir Begovic
- Junior Hoilett
- ?
   3337. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 25, 2018 at 03:45 PM (#5715837)
Begovic is Canadian? Huh. Is #4 Sydney Leroux?

Wakka wakka!
   3338. jmurph Posted: July 25, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5715848)
Paul... something. Stalteri? Salteri? Right back for I want to say Fulham.
   3339. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 25, 2018 at 04:19 PM (#5715863)
Paul Peschisolido!
   3340. I am going to be Frank Posted: July 25, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5715899)
That's actually something that's puzzled me about soccer. What's it like to be the backup goalie on Real Madrid or Bayern? Is it a better job than being the starter in the second division? Who gets paid more? Is an elite team's backup likely to be better than a mediocre team's starter? The simplistic American structure doesn't allow for such complexities.


Usually if you're a backup keeper for a "big" team you could start on a bottom half team. A good example is the aforementioned Begovic. He was a pretty good keeper for Stoke (who did hit top half of the table for a couple of seasons). He went to Chelsea and sat. He moved to Bournemouth and was by most accounts fine. He'd probably got paid better being a backup at Chelsea.

Romero at United could probably start for 8-10 teams in the Premier League. Joe Hart for City could too. The backup at Bayern was the regular starter at Stuttgart (who was not a great team, but still top division) before he moved.
   3341. Palm Beach Pollworker Posted: July 25, 2018 at 06:08 PM (#5715919)
Premiership Rumours and Realities

- Watford considering offer for Wesley Said

- Liverpool, Fulham offers for Vida turned down; West Ham interested

- Arsenal want Guedes; Guedes wants Valencia

- ManU want Rebic

- Mario Pasalic to Atalanta

- Watford loan Jerome Sinclair to Sunderland

- Feyenoord borrows Jordy Clasie from Southampton

- Pedo Obiang wants to return to Sampdoria, West Ham listening for offers

- West Ham send Martin Samuelsen to Venlo

- Arsenal after PSG's prospect Stanley Nsoki

- Liverpool loan Allan to Eintracht Frankfurt

- ManC to sign Daniel Arzani and lend him to Celtic

- ManC go for Sporting's Rafael Leao. prospect

- Wolves to sign Adam Traore

- ManU after Yerny Mina now

- Crystal Palace put €10m offer for Maxime Gonalons

- Jahanbakhsh to Brighton: Official

- Wolves borrow 'Jonny' from Atletico Madrid, who signed him from Celta

- Newcastle linked to Fabian Schar

- Claudio Gomes joins ManC

- Mainz deal Yoshinori Muto to Newcastle

- Barry Douglas moves from Wolves to Leeds

- Newcastle fans serve notice to owner Mike Ashley: 'we want signings!'

- Schuerrle loaned to Fulham

- Golovin disappoints Chelsea, opts for Monaco

- Morata's price set at €65-70m after inquiry from Milan
   3342. I am going to be Frank Posted: July 25, 2018 at 07:17 PM (#5715950)
I think I would prefer Monaco to London, especially if I'm Russian. I wonder what Chelsea really expects for Morata. I didn't think he was all that good.

Why is the production value of the ICC so terrible?
   3343. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 25, 2018 at 09:10 PM (#5716007)
Pulisic had a good last 20 minutes of the 1st half; I sure hope he stays another year at Dortmund and then ends up somewhere I can actually root for him whole heartedly ... I guess Liverpool is the best hope ...
   3344. Mefisto Posted: July 25, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5716026)
I can't see Liverpool as a good option for Pulisic if he has to compete with Mane and Salah.
   3345. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 25, 2018 at 09:51 PM (#5716041)
I can't see Liverpool as a good option for Pulisic if he has to compete with Mane and Salah.


I'd think that there would be plenty of minutes to go around across all competitions.

Besides, if it wasn't clear, I'm wanting him to end up with a club I don't actively root against (i.e. United, Real, Chelsea, Bayern) ... and that rather narrows down the possibilities.

From what I've seen so far this ICC, Liverpool are going to be an absolute terror going forward this season ...
   3346. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 25, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5716077)
Yeah, it's a meaningless pre-season match, but I'm going to predict big things for Lucas Moura, he clearly adds pace, guile and awareness that Spurs have been lacking ...
   3347. jmurph Posted: July 26, 2018 at 09:24 AM (#5716188)
Why is the production value of the ICC so terrible?

Thank you for confirming I'm not crazy. I thought it was the streaming service I use (Playstation Vue) but couldn't find anyone else talking about it on the internet. It's not in wide screen, weirdly? I'm so confused.
   3348. spivey Posted: July 26, 2018 at 09:29 AM (#5716193)
I can't see Liverpool as a good option for Pulisic if he has to compete with Mane and Salah.

True, but almost any team better than Dortmund has extreme competition at the winger and attacking mid spots. Even being rotational wing depth at that tier of team is good for his age.
   3349. Mefisto Posted: July 26, 2018 at 09:35 AM (#5716199)
Yeah, and Klopp is probably the perfect coach for him. It's just that last year Mane and Salah played nearly all the time except when Mane was injured. If Pulisic were to really rotate with them, that's fine. Squad depth is not.
   3350. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 26, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5716335)
Andre Schurrle to Fulham!
   3351. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 26, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5716390)
Steven Nzonzi being linked to Barcelona now. If you would have told me this 5 years ago...
   3352. Palm Beach Pollworker Posted: July 26, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5716620)
Premiership Rumours and Realities

- Watford lend Jerome Sinclair to Sunderland

- West Bromwich Albion approach Liverpool for Sheyi Ojo

- Wolves on trail of Yerry Mina

- Chelsea sign Rob Green

- ManC's Kean Bryan to join Rangers

- Chelsea tell Milan Morata's price tag is £62m

- Billy Arce to join Brighton

- Leicester set price of £70m for Maguire

- Trade rumour: Dwight Gayle (Newcastle) for Salomon Rondon (West Bromwich Albion)

- Leon Bailey and Sergei Milinkovic-Savic draw Chelsea's attention

- Leicester like Juve's Pjaca (not to be confused with Pjanic)

- Reine-Adelaide sent to Angers by Arsenal

- Marcelo likes West Ham's five-year contract offer, but his club Lyon doesn't like the €25m bid

- Chelsea closing on Bernard, currently with Shaktar

- Newcastle send Matz Sels to RC Strasbourg

- Everton seek both Yerry Mina and Lucas Digne for €55m all-in

- Augsburg's defender Hinteregger draws interest from Everton and West Ham


I will be travelling from Saturday until (probably) Tuesday. I may be able to fit tomorrow's rumours in, but possibly not. Normal service will resume Wednesday or Thursday, depending.
   3353. Sean Forman Posted: July 27, 2018 at 05:51 PM (#5717087)
Thoroughly enjoyed the ICC in NJ. Got to see City in person. A Salah and Sané goal is good enough for me.

I still can't believe City appear unlikely to sign a Fernandinho backup. Seems totally bonkers to me. Maybe a youngster takes a step up.
   3354. Sean Forman Posted: July 27, 2018 at 05:54 PM (#5717090)
Also ran by the new sports book at the Meadowlands Racetrack. Dropped some money on Liverpool 4-1, Arsenal 20-1 (curse of Wenger broken) and Spurs 13-1 to win the league. City was like -165. No way I'm driving up to NJ to cash in that one. I really like Arsenal as a high variance longshot. New manager, very few players out for WC, get City early who will be very depleted. Some decent players brought in.
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