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Wednesday, August 01, 2012

OTP- August 2012: The Leader Post: New stadium won’t have same appeal, says Bill ‘Spaceman’ Lee

“Building a new stadium down the street does not work unless (Ron) Lancaster spilled some DNA in the lot where they’re going to build the new stadium,” he added. “You have to refurbish (Mosaic Stadium). You’ve got to can all new ideas you might have and use the sacred ground. Fenway did that and that is why Fenway is loved. The new Yankee Stadium isn’t the same as it used to be.”

The former Boston Red Sox and Montreal Expos pitcher will not be running for the vacant mayor’s position in Regina later this year. With his opinion on the new stadium, he wasn’t sure he would garner many votes anyway. But that is nothing new to the former member of the Rhinoceros Party. Lee ran on the Rhino ticket in 1988 for president of the United States. Not surprisingly, he didn’t make the ballot in a single state. He said one of the high-ranking members within the party gave him a six-pack of Molson Canadian and asked him to run for president.

“I adhered to their funny philosophy,” Lee said. “My campaign slogan was ‘No guns, no butter. They’ll both kill you.’ And I only campaigned in federal prisons where I knew they couldn’t vote, and I only accepted a quarter in campaign contributions.”

With it being an election year in the U.S., Lee said he is all in for the re-election of Barack Obama.

“The only time (Mitt) Romney opens his mouth is when he needs to change feet,” Lee said of the Republican nominee. “If Obama does lose this, which I can’t see happening, then it’s because of a lady in Florida who works for Jeb Bush and Diebold, the voting-machine company. If Obama even comes close to losing this election, it’ll be fraud.”

Guess what, its the new OT politics thread!

Tripon Posted: August 01, 2012 at 12:04 AM | 5975 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: boston, politics

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   201. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:32 AM (#4198872)
I've classified Romney as a "very slight favorite." No one said anything about "good position to win." This campaign is going to be cutthroat and it's liable to come down to a coin toss, like Florida in 2000.


You are selling yourself a bill of goods.
   202. Rants Mulliniks Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:34 AM (#4198874)
and now the gold market is tiny compared to the thing it is supposed to anchor.


The reason the gold market is tiny, is because, without the constraint of the gold supply, the financial system has become bloated beyond saving. There is multiple times more virtual currency on the books than there is actual physical goods, gold, silver, diamonds, world GDP in existence. Derivatives are probably more to blame than not having a gold standard, but the former could not have occurred had the latter been in place. Its not supposed to work this way - currency is supposed to be a proxy for heavy, cumbersome goods, to get us beyond bartering. Currency has absultely ZERO inherent value, but we've been behaving like a bank can generate wealth when it generates currency. It does not.

   203. OCF Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:39 AM (#4198878)
and he [GW Bush] was personally fine with disappearing into Texas and clearing brush for a while

Actually, he moved to an urban area and stopped pretending he was a rancher. That rural blush-clearing stuff was never really him.
   204. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4198879)
You are selling yourself a bill of goods.

Whether Romney is a slight favorite or Obama is a slight favorite, it's utterly absurd to rate Obama as a 70-plus percent favorite when he can't get to 50 percent in the polls (or in approval rating). Obama has been underwater in approval rating since 2009 and all of the underlying polling metrics are against him. Barring a war or a big upturn in the economy, this election looks like a coin toss right now.
   205. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4198884)
Back to the economy and financial markets, it's comical how so many people here blame Bush but then conveniently forget that he was way ahead of the curve with regards to the impending housing meltdown. How come everyone always conveniently forgets things like this:
New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae
By STEPHEN LABATON
September 11, 2003

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt -- is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

...

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

It's comical how Bush is the idiot while a clown like Barney Frank, who couldn't have been more wrong, continues to be taken seriously on matters of banking, housing, and financial markets. Barney Frank should have been laughed out of politics because of the bolded quote, but he's still seen as a "leader" and "expert" on such matters. It's absurd.
   206. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:53 AM (#4198892)
People claim Rasmussen is "right-leaning" but his projections have been almost dead on for three or four straight elections.
Rasmussen's actual polling was not "right-leaning" until after 2008. I don't know what happened, but his polls had previously shown only small "house effects" and after 2008 started showing very large house effects.

Then, in the one election since the Rasmussen house effect came into play, the 2010 midterms, Rasmussen's polls were the most inaccurate of all major polling firms.
   207. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:53 AM (#4198893)
Quinnipiac's release has to be especially disconcerting for the GOP --

PA is quickly coming off the board and believe it or not, Obama is actually running ahead of where he was in Ohio in 2008.

I think what we're seeing is the same smart strategy that allowed Team Obama to get by Hillary in the primary - they're not running a 'national campaign' - they're strategically looking at the map and focusing on where they need to get the ECVs/delegates they need to win. Team Romney is really still struggling to get into the 2nd round of firewalls, much less the last stand firewalls.

What's more, the Obama ads have been absolutely devastating; the Mitt singing ad remains the best Democratic ad I've seen in my lifetime and Quinnipiac confirms that it's having an impact. Romney's "business experience" is now viewed negatively and with the Dems relentlessly pounding it (Bravo Harry Reid - "Mitt paid NO taxes!!!") I predict it'll be near toxic in a month or so. Since he can't/won't run on his term as MA governor -- all he's really got left is "not Obama", but that almost never works.

The only thing I'm really not liking about the Obama campaign is that their targeted approach isn't likely to have any coattails whatsoever... I doubt they even bother with Missouri, so McCaskill's probably gone. Heidi Heitkamp continues to look surprisingly strong in ND, but since they're firewalling and NOT looking to extend the map, no help there... I think they've pretty much written off Indiana this time around, despite the fact that we've got a good Senate candidate in Donnelly running against an extremist whackjob.
   208. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4198895)
Whether Romney is a slight favorite or Obama is a slight favorite, it's utterly absurd to rate Obama as a 70-plus percent favorite when he can't get to 50 percent in the polls (or in approval rating). Obama has been underwater in approval rating since 2009 and all of the underlying polling metrics are against him.


And you continue to blind yourself to the fact that Mitt Romney and the GOP in general polls EVEN WORSE. You're wishcasting and avoiding data that doesn't conform to your preferences.
   209. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:57 AM (#4198896)
It's comical how Bush is the idiot while a clown like Barney Frank, who couldn't have been more wrong, continues to be taken seriously on matters of banking, housing, and financial markets. Barney Frank should have been laughed out of politics because of the bolded quote, but he's still seen as a "leader" and "expert" on such matters. It's absurd.


1. Who is quoting Barney Frank as an expert on finance?

2. Regardless of how much you take it as an article of faith, Fannie and Freddie were in no way whatsoever drivers of the financial collapse of 2007.
   210. Lassus Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:57 AM (#4198897)
Back to the economy and financial markets, it's comical how so many people here blame Bush but then conveniently forget that he was way ahead of the curve with regards to the impending housing meltdown.

Did you miss on the previous page where MCoA, Sam, and Bitter Mouse blame Clinton as well? And as I learn, I'll agree with them in that blame. Are you saying that Bush deserves no blame at all? I'm not sure who you're railing against, "here". People not here?
   211. booond Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:58 AM (#4198899)
Whether Romney is a slight favorite or Obama is a slight favorite, it's utterly absurd to rate Obama as a 70-plus percent favorite when he can't get to 50 percent in the polls (or in approval rating).


His approval numbers are better than Bush's were on the same day. Obama's are trending up while people started to pick up on Bush's smell by 2004. He's at 47% out of 92% in recent polling, which looks to be 50% of the vote. EC has him a comfortable winner... today. Unless something bad happens to the economy we're looking at a long slog for Mitt as people don't like him and we almost always vote for people we like.

Mitt needs a better performance from his $77,000 olympic tax deduction to gain traction.
   212. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 11:59 AM (#4198901)
The only thing I'm really not liking about the Obama campaign is that their targeted approach isn't likely to have any coattails whatsoever... I doubt they even bother with Missouri, so McCaskill's probably gone. Heidi Heitkamp continues to look surprisingly strong in ND, but since they're firewalling and NOT looking to extend the map, no help there... I think they've pretty much written off Indiana this time around, despite the fact that we've got a good Senate candidate in Donnelly running against an extremist whackjob.


If the decision is to either go wide and risk the general, or go narrow and lose coattails, they're going to go narrow every time.
   213. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4198903)

And you continue to blind yourself to the fact that Mitt Romney and the GOP in general polls EVEN WORSE. You're wishcasting and avoiding data that doesn't conform to your preferences.


This cannot be said enough --

Mitt's favorability ratings are astoundingly bad -- don't remember if I read at RCP, Nate, or TPM -- but it's remarkable that NO major party challenger from either party has ever gone this deep into a race with negative net favorables... but that's where Mitt sits. Like I said above - bravos all around to Team Obama for really doing a wonderful summer job defining Romney.
   214. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:05 PM (#4198906)
If the decision is to either go wide and risk the general, or go narrow and lose coattails, they're going to go narrow every time.


Oh sure - I can't really blame the campaign for their map specificity (and there ARE a few places where they should help -- Florida (though Nelson doesn't look to need it), Virginia (where Kaine probably does), etc).

I just wish they at least head fake in a few places....
   215. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:09 PM (#4198912)
Then, in the one election since the Rasmussen house effect came into play, the 2010 midterms, Rasmussen's polls were the most inaccurate of all major polling firms.

Liberal pundit says conservative pollster is the worst. News at 11.

Despite FiveThirtyEight's bashing of Rasmussen, I believe Rasmussen still ended up with a more accurate House projection than FiveThirtyEight's model, despite the fact Rasmussen didn't poll House races at all.
   216. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4198916)
Despite FiveThirtyEight's bashing of Rasmussen, I believe Rasmussen still ended up with a more accurate House projection than FiveThirtyEight's model, despite the fact Rasmussen didn't poll House races at all


If your claim to fame is getting right the ones you didn't predict, you're doing it wrong.
   217. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4198917)
I predict it'll be near toxic in a month or so. Since he can't/won't run on his term as MA governor -- all he's really got left is "not Obama", but that almost never works.

Except, of course, for Obama in 2008.
   218. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4198919)
If your claim to fame is getting right the ones you didn't predict, you're doing it wrong.

And if your "model" is less accurate than someone who didn't poll at all, you're doing it wrong.
   219. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4198921)
I predict it'll be near toxic in a month or so. Since he can't/won't run on his term as MA governor -- all he's really got left is "not Obama", but that almost never works.



Except, of course, for Obama in 2008.


You seem confused about the dynamics of incumbency... Whether he achieved what he promised or not - Obama wasn't running as the "not" anything because 2008 was an open seat race.
   220. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:18 PM (#4198922)
#143: Obama picked up 53% of the popular vote and 69% of the electoral vote. In 2004, GWB got 50.7% popular, 53% electoral. He lost the popular vote in 2000 and won. Clinton '96 got 49% and 70%. Clinton '92 got 43% and 68%. Bush Sr. was at 53% and 79%. Reagan '84 was 59% and 97%, after having been at 50.7% and 90.8%. Maybe that odd disconnect isn't so odd.

Given that Obama is at around 46 percent in most national polls, rather than the 50-plus percent in your examples above, the disconnect actually is quite odd.


And today, Nate Silver projects Obama to collect 55% of the electoral college. That 9% "gap" is smaller than every one of those examples except the two George W. Bush elections --and smaller still if we use Silver's estimate of Obama's popular vote (50.2% as of today, 50.7% by November). If anything, the slightness of the discrepancy makes it an odd connect.

That Romney is going to run up his national vote total with big-margin wins in states like Oklahoma and Texas won't benefit him when he loses Ohio and Pennsylvania by 4%.

This campaign is going to be cutthroat and it's liable to come down to a coin toss, like Florida in 2000.

Obama's position would have to deteriorate quite a bit to get down to a coin toss.
   221. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:20 PM (#4198924)
Liberal pundit says conservative pollster is the worst.
For Joe, as for the modern Republican party, all attempts to distinguish the truth are merely games of politics. The statistical methodology which demonstrates Rasmussen's failures is not worth discussing, because the person who came up with that methodology is a liberal. He feels no need to engage with facts and figures, instead he points out that he's on one team and Silver is on another. This is Joe Kehoskie, and this is why I don't engage with Joe Kehoskie for more than one or two posts in a row - he can be counted on to reject scientific or intellectual arguments in favor of identifying teams.

And as discussed, Rasmussen was a reasonably accurate pollster with little partisan lean up through the 2008 election. Prior to 2010, he altered his methodology in some fashion - he's never expressed how - and started to produce polling results that fell far from the polling consensus. These results have been tested in one election, and they clearly failed.
   222. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4198926)
And if your "model" is less accurate than someone who didn't poll at all, you're doing it wrong.


Look, dude, you can choose to live in the bubble if you like. Some folks still swear by batting average, RBI and clutch hitting. Whatever floats it for you. But the facts of reality don't bend so easily as do your preferred perceptions of them.
   223. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:33 PM (#4198935)
Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin said Tuesday that it’s a “shame” former Vice President Dick Cheney considers her vice presidential selection a misfire, but she might be joining Cheney in skipping the Republican National Convention.

“Well, seeing as how Dick — excuse me, Vice President Cheney — never misfires, then evidently, he’s quite convinced that what he had evidently read about me by the lamestream media — having been written what I believe is a false narrative over the last four years — evidently, Dick Cheney believes that stuff, and that’s a shame,” Palin said on Fox News’s “On The Record with Greta Van Susteren.”


Oooh, slipping in a "Dick" AND a jab at Cheney's hunting accident, nicely done, Sarah!
   224. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:33 PM (#4198937)
You seem confused about the dynamics of incumbency... Whether he achieved what he promised or not - Obama wasn't running as the "not" anything because 2008 was an open seat race.

Yes, Mr. "Hope and Change" himself wasn't running on the basis of change. I guess I imagined all that stuff about McCain being "Bush's third term" and Obama being the anti-Bush.

That Romney is going to run up his national vote total with big-margin wins in states like Oklahoma and Texas won't benefit him when he loses Ohio and Pennsylvania by 4%.

You keep saying things like this despite the fact that most of the current polling is of registered voters rather than likely voters. The differences in voter enthusiasm aren't reflected in the current polling.

Obama's position would have to deteriorate quite a bit to get down to a coin toss.

According to whom -- a "model" that's been tested exactly once? Obama's out there begging and groveling for $3 donations and his fundraising is way off his early projections. He doesn't look to me like someone who sees himself as a 70-plus percent favorite.

***
For Joe, as for the modern Republican party, all attempts to distinguish the truth are merely games of politics. The statistical methodology which demonstrates Rasmussen's failures is not worth discussing, because the person who came up with that methodology is a liberal. He feels no need to engage with facts and figures, instead he points out that he's on one team and Silver is on another. This is Joe Kehoskie, and this is why I don't engage with Joe Kehoskie for more than one or two posts in a row - he can be counted on to reject scientific or intellectual arguments in favor of identifying teams.

Hey, remember when Daily Kos had a pollster who was simply making things up? Remember when FiveThirtyEight told its readers nothing about it for two years, despite Nate subsequently claiming he suspected it was happening as far back as 2008? Good times.

And as discussed, Rasmussen was a reasonably accurate pollster with little partisan lean up through the 2008 election. Prior to 2010, he altered his methodology in some fashion - he's never expressed how - and started to produce polling results that fell far from the polling consensus. These results have been tested in one election, and they clearly failed.

Wow, one whole election — an election marked by high volatility in voter affiliation. And Rasmussen STILL had a better House projection than this "model" everyone seems to trust so much.
   225. DA Baracus Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:33 PM (#4198939)
I was sitting in traffic yesterday (BTW thanks to those who voted against mass transit on Tuesday, you ignorant #####, but I digress) and saw an Obama 2012 bumper sticker and it occurred to me that I live in a conservative part of town in a red state and I don't think I've seen a single Romney bumper sticker. Anecdotal, sure, but that's telling.
   226. Ron J2 Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:35 PM (#4198940)
I see someone is unaware that the filibuster-proof Senate was intact for exactly 7 weeks.


Another issue is that the Democrats were not at all united around the specifics of the proposal and it took time to meet various objections.

It was relatively easy for the Republicans to stay united in opposition.
   227. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4198945)
Yes, Mr. "Hope and Change" himself wasn't running on the basis of change. I guess I imagined all that stuff about McCain being "Bush's third term" and Obama being the anti-Bush.


Now you're confusing successfully defining your opponent with running against an incumbent... Try again.
   228. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4198946)
(BTW thanks to those who voted against mass transit on Tuesday, you ignorant #####, but I digress)


####### mouthbreathing idiots.
   229. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4198947)
Now you're confusing successfully defining your opponent with running against an incumbent... Try again.


This a pointless conversation. Joe has decided what the facts are, because those are the facts he wants to believe.
   230. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:45 PM (#4198948)
(BTW thanks to those who voted against mass transit on Tuesday, you ignorant #####, but I digress)

####### mouthbreathing idiots.

Still think we can get 7 billion people on board to fight global warming?
   231. Ron J2 Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:45 PM (#4198949)
#108 That's how third parties in Canada got started. The NDP is now the official opposition and got started as a regional party.

The current governing Conservative party has an interesting history. The Progressive Conservative party became too progressive for a lot of western conservatives so they split off forming the Reform party. Very much a regional party at fist.

The Progressive Conservatives were crushed electorally and eventually merged with Reform (with Reform clearly holding the whip hand) and after some interum names re-emrged as the Conservative party (most progressives having moved on -- That said, the Canadian Conservative party governs well to the left of where the Republican party stands. And they have a majority)
   232. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:46 PM (#4198951)
Still think we can get 7 billion people on board to fight global warming?


Do you still think I think we need to convince all 7 billion of the idiots? You're not paying attention if you do.
   233. Steve Treder Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4198954)
For Joe, as for the modern Republican party, all attempts to distinguish the truth are merely games of politics. The statistical methodology which demonstrates Rasmussen's failures is not worth discussing, because the person who came up with that methodology is a liberal. He feels no need to engage with facts and figures, instead he points out that he's on one team and Silver is on another. This is Joe Kehoskie, and this is why I don't engage with Joe Kehoskie for more than one or two posts in a row - he can be counted on to reject scientific or intellectual arguments in favor of identifying teams.

I am in complete concurrence.
   234. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4198955)
Rafalca failed to medal... THAT'S gotta be an interesting dinner conversation - thank god your horse didn't win the dancing competition, honey... oops - I mean, sorry your horse didn't win the dancing competition, honey.

I was rooting for Rafalca if only for some enterprising reporter to follow-up with Mitt about whether he ended up finding out what day the competition was...
   235. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4198957)
I am in complete concurrence.

High five!
   236. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:51 PM (#4198958)

"Doom, despair, and agony on me...
If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all,
Doom, despair and agony on me."


I knew I could count on a fellow Southerner for that.
   237. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:51 PM (#4198959)
You keep saying things like this despite the fact that most of the current polling is of registered voters rather than likely voters. The differences in voter enthusiasm aren't reflected in the current polling.

Various results from July 2012: Quinnipiac has Obama up by 11% in Pennsylvania and by 6% in Ohio and Florida among likely voters. Rasmussen has Obama up by 2% in Ohio among likely voters, up by 4% in Pennsylvania among likely voters, and up by 6% in Michigan among likely voters. PPP has Obama up 1% in Florida among likely voters. SurveyUSA has Obama up 5% in Florida among likely voters. Susquehanna has Obama up by 3% in Pennsylvania among likely voters. The Purple Poll of likely voters, which covers each of those states except Michigan plus nine others (CO, IO, MN, NV, NH, NM, NC, VA and WI), has Obama up by 2% on the whole.

As of a week and a half ago, the only state where Romney leads in a majority of all "likely voter" polls is North Carolina (+2%).
   238. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:52 PM (#4198960)
Do you still think I think we need to convince all 7 billion of the idiots? You're not paying attention if you do.

All 7 billion? You guys are having trouble convincing a few million at a time.
   239. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4198961)
Quinnipiac has Obama up by 11% in Pennsylvania and by 6% in Ohio and Florida among likely voters. Rasmussen has Obama up by 2% among likely Ohio voters. PPP has Obama up 1% in Florida among likely voters. SurveyUSA has Obama up 5% in Florida, among likely voters. The Purple Poll of likely voters, which covers those states and nine others (CO, IO, MN, NV, NH, NM, NC, VA and WI), has Obama up by 2% on the whole.

Romney doesn't need Pennsylvania, so that's just a big number that means little. The other numbers are mostly very small leads for Obama that are well within the margin of error, and undecideds tend to break against the incumbent in bad economic times.

Gas prices trending upward, jobless claims up again today ... it's a long way to November for Obama.
   240. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4198963)
High five!


Wrap that cocoon tighter, Joey.
   241. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4198964)
All 7 billion? You guys are having trouble convincing a few million at a time


Are you suggesting that it's surprising that a majority of Georgia voters - primarily rednecks and Gingrich supporting suburbanite asshats - are content to free ride on the city's decaying infrastructure forever, rather than actually pay for the things that makes the economy in the region run in the first place? Because really, that's not shocking. Paul Broun voters voted down transit in Atlanta. Because they are ####### idiots. Film at 11.
   242. Lassus Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4198966)
Still think we can get 7 billion people on board to fight global warming?

I cannot believe you keep trotting this figure out like it makes any sense.


High five!

You weren't so keen on high-fiving multiple people agreeing that the democrats' hero was significant in the blame for the financial crisis, so you've REALLY lost this oh-so-clever retort.
   243. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4198974)
The question of Obama strategy and coattails is an interesting one, that I think we sort of slid past. There are really three parts, there is the media buy portion, the party building part, and finally the candidate's popularity.

The media buys are extremely narrow cast. I would argue they should be focused there though. For party building the Obama campaign/DNC has spent a fair amount of time working on general campaign organization, registration drives and voter lists*. As far as I can tell that effort has been pretty broad based and may result in a relative lift, certainly when contrasted with the Romney campaign which is very light on boots on the ground.

Finally a candidates genral popularity can influence things. In large portions of the nation (looking at you Appalacia) Obama is in fact pretty toxic, and there the decentralized nature of the Democrats helps a bit (as much as we all ##### about it come legislation time), but still he will not help things there at all. In the rest of the nation it is likely a wash, with the main benefit being it is a presidential election which tends towards higher turn out which helps the D side relatively (see demographic breakdowns of 2008 versus 2010).

* Votor lists is really underselling what the Obama campaign is doing with the information and advanced analytics they are deploying. Of course the RNC has has that ability for a while as well, so who kows whose operation is better, not me**.

** Though I do keep getting Romney mailers. Really guys that's terrible. I never got anythign from the Bush campaigns or from the GOP here in MN. But that is anecdotal so have some salt with that story.
   244. Steve Treder Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4198975)
Not that there was anything different he could really be expected to do at this point, but Kofia Annan has officially thrown in the towel. There is now no possibility of negotiated settlement in Syria; it's irretrievably rumbling down the road into full-out civil war, and no one knows what its consequences and impacts will be.
   245. just plain joe Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4198977)
I live in a conservative part of town in a red state and I don't think I've seen a single Romney bumper sticker. Anecdotal, sure, but that's telling.


I too live in a conservative town in a red state and I have seen one Romney bumper sticker; it was on a BMW 735i (figures). The big issue here this election is a referendum to merge the city and county governments. Roughly 70% of the county's population are within the city limits of Evansville and most of the rest live in the contiguous suburbs. There are valid arguments pro and con but the main positive reason would be that it would decrease the number of politicians.
   246. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4198979)
no one knows what its consequences and impacts will be


Call on me, I know! Death. Displacement. Economic ruin for people for many years. Likely a repressive regime will eventually replace the current repressive regime. The region will be moderately destabilized, but so long as Iran and Isreal avoid full on war the region will continue to simmer, but likely not boil over.

What do I get when my fearless prediction is born true?
   247. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4198980)
Are you suggesting that it's surprising that a majority of Georgia voters - primarily rednecks and Gingrich supporting suburbanite asshats - are content to free ride on the city's decaying infrastructure forever, rather than actually pay for the things that makes the economy in the region run in the first place? Because really, that's not shocking. Paul Broun voters voted down transit in Atlanta. Because they are ####### idiots. Film at 11.

I'm not surprised that a majority of ANY voters are happy to free-ride rather than pay for things. This has been my basic premise from Day 1 of the climate-change debate.

***
I cannot believe you keep trotting this figure out like it makes any sense.

I keep trotting it out because it's absurd for the U.S. to unilaterally implement draconian environmental regulations if emerging economies continue using the same dirty energy sources, same gas-guzzling cars, etc.

You weren't so keen on high-fiving multiple people agreeing that the democrats' hero was significant in the blame for the financial crisis, so you've REALLY lost this oh-so-clever retort.

Hey, I like the "High five!" meme. Sue me. I can't help it that you guys don't like to have any fun. You guys should have your kids taken away.
   248. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4198983)
I can't help it that you guys don't like to have any fun.


Could you tell your mom to quit calling? It really wasn't all that great.
   249. Jay Z Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4198984)
On another subject - We need free market healthcare! :)

Our current system manages the wonder of being neither socialized nor free market. Usually in a free market I can buy something at probably about the same price that everyone else in the general area pays. Most everyone will take my money. The work may require an estimate, but contractors who are consistently too high will probably get competed down or out of business. Very little of this seems to happen in health care currently. Average person with "insurance" is really in an HMO, which limits the supply of doctors. Go outside to "pay cash" and you pay a big penalty. Supply of doctors is kept low, and salaries high, by limiting the number of medical school graduates. School is also made expensive so it's less realistic for doctors to practice as M.D.s or some lower-paying niche, even if they choose to, because they need to pay loans back. And on and on.

Why isn't this ever an issue for anyone on the right? Maybe once in two years a libertarian complains about the licensing, but what about the price? I know the politcal right probably just feels they can argue against what the left wants and that's enough. But no one outside the system ever has a bone to pick with the medical cartel? How about the 6% of GDP that could be spent on other services rather than some private sector medical bureaucrat?
   250. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4198987)
I keep trotting it out because it's absurd for the U.S. to unilaterally implement draconian environmental regulations


Draconian? Like mandating light bulb efficiency standards? Tax credits for solar, wind, geothermal, and tidal power? A graduated Cap and Trade policy which has proven effective in other places and for sulpher? Uping Cafe standards? Investing R&D on various new technologies? Moderate investments in fusion power? Incentives for building green roofs?

All of these moderate steps above (and there are more) can help the economy. Sure some companies will be harmed, but others will be helped. Consumers pay a bit more in some places but get cleaner air and other benefits in other places.

Sure if every little step is either "worthless" or "draconian" than yeah we are doomed. I am reminded of the cries of despair when lead was removed from gas. "Draconian" and governmental interference were trumpeted to the skies for that one also.
   251. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4198988)
Not to be simplistic, but this is similar to GWB/JK isn't it? Uninspiring challenger v. polarizing incumbent? I'll take my answer off the air.

***

FWIW, I live in the most liberal part of NC and see Romney stickers occasionally, though far less often than more general conservative/anti-BHO ones - and those quite a bit less often than lefty ones (again, look at where I live), many of which are for Obama. Granted, many of those were probably affixed four years ago...

***

249 - It's neither a winner politically, nor a particular area where a totally free market response is likely to work well, given info asymetries, risk aversion, etc...
   252. Lassus Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4198990)
All of these moderate steps above (and there are more) can help the economy. Sure some companies will be harmed, but others will be helped. Consumers pay a bit more in some places but get cleaner air and other benefits in other places.

It's too bad Rifkin is gone, because I'm curious if someone can make a decent and specific argument for how the absolutely insane improvement in air quality in SoCal between 1994 and, say, 1999 (sadly the last time I saw it, but the difference in those five years was astounding) helped to destroy California's economy.
   253. Steve Treder Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4198992)
Death. Displacement. Economic ruin for people for many years. Likely a repressive regime will eventually replace the current repressive regime. The region will be moderately destabilized, but so long as Iran and Isreal avoid full on war the region will continue to simmer, but likely not boil over.

What do I get when my fearless prediction is born true?


I hope you're rewarded with a harem full of virgins, or whatever else might tickle your fancy. Because what you've described is, ominously, something close to the best-case scenario. There are plenty of plausible worse cases.
   254. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4198994)
On another subject - We need free market healthcare! :)

Our current system manages the wonder of being neither socialized nor free market. Usually in a free market I can buy something at probably about the same price that everyone else in the general area pays. Most everyone will take my money. The work may require an estimate, but contractors who are consistently too high will probably get competed down or out of business. Very little of this seems to happen in health care currently. Average person with "insurance" is really in an HMO, which limits the supply of doctors. Go outside to "pay cash" and you pay a big penalty. Supply of doctors is kept low, and salaries high, by limiting the number of medical school graduates. School is also made expensive so it's less realistic for doctors to practice as M.D.s or some lower-paying niche, even if they choose to, because they need to pay loans back. And on and on.

Why isn't this ever an issue for anyone on the right? Maybe once in two years a libertarian complains about the licensing, but what about the price? I know the politcal right probably just feels they can argue against what the left wants and that's enough. But no one outside the system ever has a bone to pick with the medical cartel? How about the 6% of GDP that could be spent on other services rather than some private sector medical bureaucrat?


Capitalists, heal thyself --

Few people realize it, but in fact -- Medicare subsidizes roughly 85% of post-graduate medical training (i.e., internships and residencies), but CMS has virtually no input as to how that's allocated (i.e., CMS doesn't decide which programs need more slots).

Health care -- especially hospital-based care -- is big business. You can't start a hospital in your garage - it's inevitably going to take a large infrastructure to make it work. Once upon a time, this was largely the purview of nfps that were truly "not-for-profits". That's just not the case anymore... There were some very overlooked changes to how CMS deals with providers going way back to the 80s that are bearing particularly bitter fruits today. Giving hospitals more freedom to gain efficiencies in providing services hasn't worked from a cost perspective - it's only made it much easier to model towards increased profitability.

Even religious and school affiliated hospitals have taken the free market ball and run with it -- that means financial projections about which areas of care can be exploited as profit centers, streamlining and squeezing out those that aren't (no matter how important they are to "care"), and in effect, putting a lot more decision making power in the hands of financial analysts.

   255. DA Baracus Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4198995)
####### mouthbreathing idiots.


I might be the only person at my polling location that voted Yes. I'm disappointed in the staggering amount of people that are willfully standing still in the face of desperately needed progress. I am looking forward to, with schadenfreude, the reaction of the Sierra Club when they realize that the Tea Party was just playing them for fools.
   256. formerly dp Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4198998)
I too live in a conservative town in a red state and I have seen one Romney bumper sticker; it was on a BMW 735i (figures). The big issue here this election is a referendum to merge the city and county governments. Roughly 70% of the county's population are within the city limits of Evansville and most of the rest live in the contiguous suburbs. There are valid arguments pro and con but the main positive reason would be that it would decrease the number of politicians.


I'm in the same boat, and I have seen a lot of bumper stickers and lawn signs leftover from the primaries, but virtually nothing for Romney. He's a lock to win my state, but I haven't met a person excited about voting for him.


Draconian? Like mandating light bulb efficiency standards? Tax credits for solar, wind, geothermal, and tidal power? A graduated Cap and Trade policy which has proven effective in other places and for sulpher? Uping Cafe standards? Investing R&D on various new technologies? Moderate investments in fusion power? Incentives for building green roofs?


Draconian, draconian, draconian, draconian. Next.

The problem that Joe keeps running away from is that his side is fighting all of the small steps solutions, on pure ideological grounds alone. Articles crying about light bulb standards being government tyranny were funny for a minute, until you realized they weren't posted to the Onion.
   257. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:40 PM (#4198999)
I keep trotting it out because it's absurd for the U.S. to unilaterally implement draconian environmental regulations if emerging economies continue using the same dirty energy sources, same gas-guzzling cars, etc.
Here we go again. Joe always goes back to the "draconian" card, a broken record stuck on a talking point. For the billionth time, incremental changes to policy and the application of new technologies goes a long way, but maybe I'm just trying to be too rational.
   258. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:42 PM (#4199000)
You weren't so keen on high-fiving multiple people agreeing that the democrats' hero was significant in the blame for the financial crisis, so you've REALLY lost this oh-so-clever retort.
Not to say that Clinton doesn't deserve blame — it goes across the board — but the piece of legislation that rolled back Glass-Steagall, the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act, was written by three Republicans, led by Mr. Tea Party, Phil Gramm.
   259. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4199001)
Here we go again. Joe always goes back to the "draconian" card, a broken record stuck on a talking point. For the billionth time, incremental changes to policy and the application of new technologies goes a long way, but maybe I'm just trying to be too rational.


This is why those "Word of the Day" calendars are a blight on society.
   260. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4199002)
Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act


The horrible sound of the name of the act alone should have warned us all. Horrifying disease? Mental condition? Cthulhian monster? Curse in Hmong?

What is a Gramm–Leach–Bliley?
   261. DA Baracus Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4199003)
I too live in a conservative town in a red state and I have seen one Romney bumper sticker; it was on a BMW 735i (figures). The big issue here this election is a referendum to merge the city and county governments.


Hmm, that's a good point. I might be forgetting something, but I don't think there is a big issue referendum on the ballot this year (we just had it on Tuesday). That won't help Romney in the popular vote (he's got the electoral sewn up).
   262. Srul Itza Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4199004)
He's a lock to win my state, but I haven't met a person excited about voting for him.



An empty cab limousine pulled up, and Mitt Romney got out.
   263. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:52 PM (#4199007)
The horrible sound of the name of the act alone should have warned us all. Horrifying disease? Mental condition? Cthulhian monster? Curse in Hmong?
It's title name is the Financial Services Modernization Act, but you know how those names have nothing to do with what's actually in the bill, sort of like how the PATRIOT Act has nothing to do with patriotism.
   264. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4199008)
Here we go again. Joe always goes back to the "draconian" card, a broken record stuck on a talking point. For the billionth time, incremental changes to policy and the application of new technologies goes a long way, but maybe I'm just trying to be too rational.

"Cap and trade" isn't just an incremental change to policy.

It's title name is the Financial Services Modernization Act, but you know how those names have nothing to do with what's actually in the bill, sort of like how the PATRIOT Act has nothing to do with patriotism.

And how the Affordable Care Act has nothing to do with affordable care.
   265. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4199012)
And how the Affordable Care Act has nothing to do with affordable care.


Well, except for those that were denied insurance or excised off the rolls once they reached a cap, but I'll grant that doesn't apply to everyone.
   266. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4199013)
Random comment: What is it with people sticking their hands in elevator doors to prevent the doors from closing, rather than simply waiting for the next elevator?
   267. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 02, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4199015)
"Cap and trade" isn't just an incremental change to policy.
That's the only policy change possible. Game over, everyone, good night. There are no other possibilities to discuss.

And how the Affordable Care Act has nothing to do with affordable care.
It really doesn't. Like all the lefties have been arguing, it's not about affordable care, but universal coverage. Since you agree, HIGH FIVE!
   268. Lassus Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4199017)
Random comment: What is it with people sticking their hands in elevator doors to prevent the doors from closing, rather than simply waiting for the next elevator?

People are in a hurry? - shrug - The risk is infinitessimal. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't care - like with running for a train.
   269. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4199018)
People are in a hurry? - shrug - The risk is infinitessimal. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't care - like with running for a train.


I'm not talking about the risk (?), but the annoyance factor. People are in the car ready to go up. Let it go up, already. It's not a big deal, but unless you have an emergency that can't wait 20 seconds, just take the next one.

As for the subways, the people who get up and start moving towards the doors before the train has stopped amuse me. Has anyone, in the history of New York City subway riding, failed to have time to exit once the doors opened?
   270. Steve Treder Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4199025)
What is it with people sticking their hands in elevator doors to prevent the doors from closing, rather than simply waiting for the next elevator?

Cue Seinfeld theme.
   271. Lassus Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:11 PM (#4199027)
As for the subways, the people who get up and start moving towards the doors before the train has stopped amuse me. Has anyone, in the history of New York City subway riding, failed to have time to exit once the doors opened?

I understand this again for hurrying purposes (not saying - like the elevator - that it isn't lame and on occasion rude, but there is a purpose), but I've never seen anyone actually trapped on a train, and this is on BUSY trains.
   272. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4199029)
Not to say that Clinton doesn't deserve blame — it goes across the board — but the piece of legislation that rolled back Glass-Steagall, the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act, was written by three Republicans, led by Mr. Tea Party, Phil Gramm.


It really ought to be noted that the votes in the House and Senate were about 90% against from the Dem caucus... Yes - the Big Dog was among the 10% of Dems that supported the bill, but the Democratic caucuses in both chambers voted overwhelmingly against it*


*FWIW, while I think it was a mistake - I concur with Tshipman or whomever that made the point about Glass-Steagall being less important than the abuse and bastardization of derivatives.
   273. Eddo Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4199034)
As for the subways, the people who get up and start moving towards the doors before the train has stopped amuse me. Has anyone, in the history of New York City subway riding, failed to have time to exit once the doors opened?

Eh, I do this sometimes. I find it more courteous to people getting on. I generally get more annoyed when I'm getting on the train, and the first wave of people disembark, then some people start to get on, only to run into stragglers getting off.

This possibly makes me modern society's greatest monster.
   274. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:17 PM (#4199035)
Re: Why is gold money from last page

This is from Sanat Kumar, the chair of the chemical engineering department at Columbia University. He looked at all the elements to determine which would be best for money. To work the element:

1) Has to be a solid, not a gas or liquid
2) Can't be corrosive or reactive
3) Can't be radioactive

This leaves 30 elements left.

4)Must be rare but not too rare.

This leaves 5 elements as possibilities according to Kumar: rhodium, palladium, platinum, silver and gold

Silver has been used for currency, but it tarnishes easily, so it's out. Rhodium and palladium were discovered only in the 1800s, That leaves gold and platinum. Platinum, however, has a melting point around 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit (about 1,600 degrees Celsius), which, Kumar noted, could only be attained in a modern furnace, so early civilizations would not have been able to conveniently shape it into uniform units.

Hence the gold standard. Why gold instead of platinum is just a hangover from an earlier era.

   275. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:20 PM (#4199036)
Has anyone, in the history of New York City subway riding, failed to have time to exit once the doors opened?

Very nearly, especially during rush hour.
   276. formerly dp Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4199041)
Ray:
Thanks for again confirming my thesis that you think BTF exists to give you a place to whine about every little miniscule thing that annoys you in a day. There seem to be a lot of them.
   277. Steve Treder Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:35 PM (#4199044)
What's the deal with the sun shining in my eyes? When I drive to work in the morning, there it is, shining so hard I'm forced to pull down the visor on my windshield. Big time annoyance factor.
   278. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4199053)
I'm not talking about the risk (?), but the annoyance factor. People are in the car ready to go up. Let it go up, already. It's not a big deal, but unless you have an emergency that can't wait 20 seconds, just take the next one.
Why do people change lanes in bumper-to-bumper traffic, cutting people off while their at it? Because they want that extra second they think they're going to gain, they're not thinking about how they annoy others, and they don't care that you're annoyed. This is why you can't build a society around philosophies like depending on the kindness of strangers.
   279. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:50 PM (#4199056)
Hence the gold standard. Why gold instead of platinum is just a hangover from an earlier era.


I know why more primitive cultures opted to use gold as the material element of their monetary transactions. I read that article too. But we don't need to exchange material coins in order to do business these days, so the need for a material element to "money" is nonsense.
   280. formerly dp Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:53 PM (#4199057)
But we don't need to exchange material coins in order to do business these days, so the need for a material element to "money" is nonsense.


What part of "it has intrinsic value" do you not understand? Christ, it's like trying to reason with someone who exists in the twenty-first century.
   281. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4199058)
Why do people change lanes in bumper-to-bumper traffic, cutting people off while their at it? Because they want that extra second they think they're going to gain, they're not thinking about how they annoy others, and they don't care that you're annoyed. This is why you can't build a society around philosophies like depending on the kindness of strangers.


Any ideology that can put a stop to this is one that I would seriously have to consider...

What's worse about these @#!@#!@! lane changers is that they do so with no plan - how hard is it for people to look at the traffic ahead and see that cutting me off only buys you a temporary car length or two... then, you'll inevitably be slowing down my lane when you realize this and cut back over.

Worse than Hitler, these people are -- and people who use merge lanes as passing lanes are 10 X worse than Hitler.

I've taken to becoming a traffic flow vigilante to such ##########... I'll intentionally miss my exit to box such ######## in and ensure that they're limited in the havoc they can wreak. You're welcome, America.
   282. Rants Mulliniks Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:57 PM (#4199059)
We need a material element so banks won't be able to just keep printing ink on paper, or electronically entering digits and a dollar sign into accounts, and pretending they just gave up something of value.
   283. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4199065)
We need a material element so banks won't be able to just keep printing ink on paper, or electronically entering digits and a dollar sign into accounts, and pretending they just gave up something of value.


Banks shouldn't be doing that. Only governments have the power to create currency.
   284. Srul Itza Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:20 PM (#4199072)
Random comment: What is it with people sticking their hands in elevator doors to prevent the doors from closing, rather than simply waiting for the next elevator?


What is it with people in an elevator, seeing somebody trying to catch it, who don't have the common courtesy to hit the "door open" button, which will cost them maybe all of 10 seconds before the door closes again?
   285. Eddo Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4199074)
What is it with people in an elevator, seeing somebody trying to catch it, who don't have the common courtesy to hit the "door open" button, which will cost them maybe all of 10 seconds before the door closes again?

Yeah - the amount of time delay due to someone sticking their hand in the door is much less than the delay if they have to wait for another elevator.
   286. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4199076)
Hence the gold standard. Why gold instead of platinum is just a hangover from an earlier era.


We already have a de facto platinum standard. A platinum piece is worth 10 gold pieces. It used to be 5, but now it's 10. And don't try to pawn off some of those electrum pieces you've been hoarding, because they ain't worth nothing these days.
   287. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4199077)
Any ideology that can put a stop to this is one that I would seriously have to consider...

What's worse about these @#!@#!@! lane changers is that they do so with no plan - how hard is it for people to look at the traffic ahead and see that cutting me off only buys you a temporary car length or two... then, you'll inevitably be slowing down my lane when you realize this and cut back over.

Worse than Hitler, these people are -- and people who use merge lanes as passing lanes are 10 X worse than Hitler.

I've taken to becoming a traffic flow vigilante to such ##########... I'll intentionally miss my exit to box such ######## in and ensure that they're limited in the havoc they can wreak. You're welcome, America.


Great quote by Russell Baker -- "There are no liberals behind steering wheels."
   288. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4199081)
Random comment: What is it with people sticking their hands in elevator doors to prevent the doors from closing, rather than simply waiting for the next elevator?


Demonstrating the superiority of man over machine is always worthwhile.
   289. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4199085)
Demonstrating the superiority of man over machine is always worthwhile.


Alls I know is next time I'm in NYC I'm going to Ray's offices and waiting on him to get in the elevator, and then waiting on the doors to start to close...
   290. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4199086)
What's the deal with the sun shining in my eyes? When I drive to work in the morning, there it is, shining so hard I'm forced to pull down the visor on my windshield. Big time annoyance factor.

Oh God, not another cap and shade advocate.
   291. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4199090)
The subway thing is just common courtesy to the people boarding, and also a way of doing your tiny part to get the trains running more speedily. In Chicago it also doesn't hurt that they play the "The doors are about to close!" recording within about 1.5 seconds of the doors opening.

Random comment: What is it with people sticking their hands in elevator doors to prevent the doors from closing, rather than simply waiting for the next elevator?


There was an ancient and extremely senile dentistry professor who used to come into the medical library in which I worked who would get his arm stuck in the elevator once every couple of months. He was too slow to get from the button to the elevator in a reasonable amount of time, and too old man weak to get his arm all the way into the door to keep it from closing, so it would shut on him fairly often. He did this regularly for the five years I worked there; no one else ever had the same problem. You learn in these situations about the various failsafes in a modern elevator, as he never had his arm ripped off. We had a little metal crowbar we had to use to get the door open, which we named "Jake's Device" after our esteemed troublemaker. We only let him stick around because his truly astonishing overdue fines paid the salaries of half of our staff.

EDIT: And after I'd freed him from the elevator's jaws he would inevitably start talking to me about gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria, and would get angry when I wouldn't give him the correct answers to the random questions he'd ask me about them. He of course had no idea that he was in the library and that I was not a dentistry student. And this guy taught full time!
   292. zonk Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:40 PM (#4199094)

Demonstrating the superiority of man over machine is always worthwhile.


By coincidence, that's the Obama 2012 campaign theme...
   293. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:47 PM (#4199104)

As for the subways, the people who get up and start moving towards the doors before the train has stopped amuse me. Has anyone, in the history of New York City subway riding, failed to have time to exit once the doors opened?

They're not trying to get off the train, they're trying to switch cars at the next stop to get away from you.

Eh, I do this sometimes. I find it more courteous to people getting on. I generally get more annoyed when I'm getting on the train, and the first wave of people disembark, then some people start to get on, only to run into stragglers getting off.

This. I have never been trapped on the subway but I have been prevented from getting onto a train because the conductor just shut the doors while there were still people waiting (and plenty of room for them inside). Now I try to get off quickly so people have time to get on.

Also the main bottleneck is getting up the stairs once you get off the train, so if you can be the first one off, you can save yourself a lot of time when you're in a hurry.
   294. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4199107)
Eh, I do this sometimes. I find it more courteous to people getting on. I generally get more annoyed when I'm getting on the train, and the first wave of people disembark, then some people start to get on, only to run into stragglers getting off.


Actually, that raises another problem: people trying to get on before everyone's off.

---

Ray:
Thanks for again confirming my thesis that you think BTF exists to give you a place to whine about every little miniscule thing that annoys you in a day. There seem to be a lot of them.


Would you rather I comment yet again on the misuse of the word "affordable" in the ACA?
   295. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:54 PM (#4199111)
EDIT: And after I'd freed him from the elevator's jaws he would inevitably start talking to me about gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria, and would get angry when I wouldn't give him the correct answers to the random questions he'd ask me about them. He of course had no idea that he was in the library and that I was not a dentistry student. And this guy taught full time!


As many times as you freed him, you never learned the answer?

What a waste.
   296. Steve Treder Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4199112)
that raises another problem: people trying to get on before everyone's off.

Will this agony of vexing problems never END?!?
   297. formerly dp Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:57 PM (#4199113)
Would you rather I comment yet again on the misuse of the word "affordable" in the ACA?


You mean I didn't trash your moronic argument thoroughly enough the first time? BTF would be so much quieter if only they taught logical thinking in law schools...

OT, but Jason Bay got a hit with a runner in scoring position. That's rare enough to merit its own thread.
   298. Swedish Chef Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:58 PM (#4199115)
Demonstrating the superiority of man over machine is always worthwhile.

By coincidence, that's the Obama 2012 campaign theme...


Won't the drones that fought so bravely for him be angry if he runs on a human-first platform?
   299. Steve Treder Posted: August 02, 2012 at 03:59 PM (#4199116)
As many times as you freed him, you never learned the answer?

What a waste.


Yeah, it's beyond obvious that he wasn't actually just an old professor, he was clearly a wizard and he was testing you in order to choose you to ally with him on an adventurous quest against evil warlocks, in which he would bestow you with magical powers, and you'd fight dragons and get to nail the gorgeous damsel and everything.

And you blew it.
   300. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 02, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4199121)
Yeah, it's beyond obvious that he wasn't actually just an old professor, he was clearly a wizard and he was testing you in order to choose you to ally with him on an adventurous quest against evil warlocks, in which he would bestow you with magical powers, and you'd fight dragons and get to nail the gorgeous damsel and everything.

And you blew it.


This actually makes some sense. Those times when he would yell at me because we didn't have a book on the shelves and it would turn out he had it checked out, for example, he was actually trying to help me find a magic tome that could be in two places at once. They obviously call the book Molecular Mechanisms of Microbial Adhesion to throw the Muggles off the scent.
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