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Wednesday, August 01, 2012

OTP- August 2012: The Leader Post: New stadium won’t have same appeal, says Bill ‘Spaceman’ Lee

“Building a new stadium down the street does not work unless (Ron) Lancaster spilled some DNA in the lot where they’re going to build the new stadium,” he added. “You have to refurbish (Mosaic Stadium). You’ve got to can all new ideas you might have and use the sacred ground. Fenway did that and that is why Fenway is loved. The new Yankee Stadium isn’t the same as it used to be.”

The former Boston Red Sox and Montreal Expos pitcher will not be running for the vacant mayor’s position in Regina later this year. With his opinion on the new stadium, he wasn’t sure he would garner many votes anyway. But that is nothing new to the former member of the Rhinoceros Party. Lee ran on the Rhino ticket in 1988 for president of the United States. Not surprisingly, he didn’t make the ballot in a single state. He said one of the high-ranking members within the party gave him a six-pack of Molson Canadian and asked him to run for president.

“I adhered to their funny philosophy,” Lee said. “My campaign slogan was ‘No guns, no butter. They’ll both kill you.’ And I only campaigned in federal prisons where I knew they couldn’t vote, and I only accepted a quarter in campaign contributions.”

With it being an election year in the U.S., Lee said he is all in for the re-election of Barack Obama.

“The only time (Mitt) Romney opens his mouth is when he needs to change feet,” Lee said of the Republican nominee. “If Obama does lose this, which I can’t see happening, then it’s because of a lady in Florida who works for Jeb Bush and Diebold, the voting-machine company. If Obama even comes close to losing this election, it’ll be fraud.”

Guess what, its the new OT politics thread!

Tripon Posted: August 01, 2012 at 12:04 AM | 5975 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: boston, politics

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   501. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4201639)

flip
   502. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4201643)
Like I said there is a line (Gingrich and Edwards clearly cross it; Spitzer for example didn't)

How does Gingrich or Edwards cross the line and Spitzer not? Seems pretty similar to me. Spitzer probably worse as he was breaking the laws sleeping with pros (while he was a AG).
   503. Tripon Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4201651)
Spitzer's wife wasn't dying of cancer. Also he didn't pay somebody to give his wrong doings.
   504. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4201654)
Sincerely. The idea that no one would recognize them or yammer about this boggles the mind. I wouldn't judge Ryan as qualified to mow my lawn at that point.

Well, nobody did recognize them or yammer about it. It didn't come out until like 5+ years later, and only because the judge allowed child custody records to become unsealed due to media requests. I agree with the point that it exhibited poor judgment but if the American people are ok with the President getting blowjobs from interns, it's hard to see how this is a disqualifier.

Jack Ryan tried to deceive and pressure his wife into attending, and then having sex with strangers in these clubs. His wife filed for divorce because of this treatment.

She doesn't say in the custody papers that he tried to pressure her into having sex with others. He did ask her to have sex with him in front of others. He may have been the ####### in this situation but we have very little information, and it's really none of our business. It really is a matter of consenting adults, in the sense that any politician could have something like this in their past and we wouldn't know about it.

EDITed for clarity
   505. tshipman Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:19 PM (#4201657)
So, how about some VP speculation. Your options are:

1) Tim Pawlenty
2) Rob Portman
3) Random other boring white dude
4) 2012 failed GOP presidential candidates (Santorum, Caine, ...)
5) Condeleeza Rice (or any other non white or non dude)



I think we can safely toss out 4 and 5. All of the other candidates had a ton of baggage, and the GOP doesn't want to make the "failure to vet" mistake twice.

I am somewhat skeptical of Rob Portman, also for the same reason. He's never competed in a national campaign, so nominating him is a big risk.

I think that Pawlenty would be a stupid, but possible choice. All the VP pick is good for is a 2 point bump in the state of your choosing. Congrats on losing MN by 2 points less. That would be a stupid nomination.

I still think that Rubio makes the most sense. Romney HAS to win Florida. If he doesn't win Florida, he has no path to the presidency. I am not sure if Rubio would accept the nomination. How bad is it to be the losing VP Candidate? I think there's a small chance he chooses Paul Ryan.


And when will it be announced?

1) This week (8/6 - 8/12)
2) Next week (8/13 - 8/19)
3) Two weeks (8/20 - 8/26)
4) Week of convention (8/27+ )


Two weeks. You want good publicity heading into the convention to maximize the bounce.
   506. Lassus Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:19 PM (#4201658)
Well, nobody did recognize them or yammer about it. It didn't come out until like 5+ years later, and only because the judge allowed child custody records to become unsealed due to media requests.

Hmmm.... Did not realize this. Thanks.


I agree with the point that it exhibited poor judgment but if the American people are ok with the President getting blowjobs from interns, it's hard to see how this is a disqualifier.

That being said, it, to me, falls outside whatever radius of poor judgment and stupidity that Clinton showed.
   507. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4201665)

It's also worth noting that Obama was leading Ryan by a decent margin in the polls before this info came out. Coulter's idea that this was some sort of dirty trick that won Obama the race is misguided at best.
   508. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4201666)
If it's Chris Christie, they'll need to announce it on November 2. His national shelf life as an electoral asset would make Sarah Palin's look deep and enduring.
   509. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4201672)
That being said, it, to me, falls outside whatever radius of poor judgment that Clinton showed.


Clinton was, as ever, a man of the people in his sexual picadillos. He tapped a younger ass on the side and then tried to hide it from, well, everyone. That's pretty much SOP for 70% of men on the planet. There's nothing really kinky or fetishistic about a guy wanting to dip his stick into a little strange.

Ryan wanted to go have sex in public while other people watched. That's a deeper sexual underground than anything Clinton ever got tagged with. That's a fetish club really. Now me, I don't give a ####. He wants to drill Jeri Ryan while other people watch, that's between him and 7 o' 9. But I can see where the state GOP was a bit thrown out of sorts by that behavior, as it is somewhat removed from any sort of mainstream, heartland sexual mores to speak of (especially the mores of 10 years ago.)
   510. squatto Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4201673)
I agree with the point that it exhibited poor judgment but if the American people are ok with the President getting blowjobs from interns, it's hard to see how this is a disqualifier.

It's a disqualifier because the guy who wants the mantle of the party of family values demonstrated that he's got some non-mainstream kink in him, and he showed poor judgment by not getting his wife's consent to copulate in front of others who are there to see and be seen.

IIRC Ryan wasn't the choice of the moral values wing of the party, he was the choice of the business-first wing. The business-first wing needed the moral values wing. The moral values wing took a hike when this news came out. Seeing this, the business-first wing threw up their hands and went to sulk in a corner. So Illinois voters got a choice between Alan Keyes' lunacy or a charismatic guy who had no real dirt on him.

I don't know that Illinois has commercial establishments for swingers and exhibitionists to get their kink on. I've heard tell of private clubs that host parties in members' houses or in hotels.
   511. Tripon Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4201674)
Dave, yeah but it took Obama from a 10 point fav to a 30 point fav. Don't think obama would have the Mo he had in 2008 against Hillary without such an advantage.
   512. zonk Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:37 PM (#4201679)
Ryan wanted to go have sex in public while other people watched. That's a deeper sexual underground than anything Clinton ever got tagged with. That's a fetish club really. Now me, I don't give a ####. He wants to drill Jeri Ryan while other people watch, that's between him and 7 o' 9. But I can see where the state GOP was a bit thrown out of sorts by that behavior, as it is somewhat removed from any sort of mainstream, heartland sexual mores to speak of (especially the mores of 10 years ago.)


I don't know how exactly I ended up being the Jack Ryan defender here (and FWIW, I do think he's a good guy... he quit a PE gig to go teach public HS)... but the story that came out, IIRC, is that they visited the 'club' on the advice of a friend/therapist (don't recall which) to deal with some sexual 'doldrums'. I don't think it was necessarily Jack Ryan wanting to drill Jeri while others watched, I think it was more "let's try something new and explore our depraved sides" -- and it simply didn't work out. Granted, she's Hollywood - so perhaps she's well-versed in measured public statements, but Jeri Ryan gave precisely this impression... that it was something they "tried" (granted, with him as the initiator and she the um, WTF/no), that didn't work out.

   513. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:38 PM (#4201680)
Don't get me wrong, I understand why it was effectively a disqualifier. I just don't think it should have been. Then again, I'm not part of the Republican base.
   514. zonk Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:40 PM (#4201681)
I don't know that Illinois has commercial establishments for swingers and exhibitionists to get their kink on. I've heard tell of private clubs that host parties in members' houses or in hotels.


IIRC, Naperville (? I think?) is somewhat renowned in certain circles as the swing capital of the United States.
   515. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4201682)
How does Gingrich or Edwards cross the line and Spitzer not? Seems pretty similar to me. Spitzer probably worse as he was breaking the laws sleeping with pros (while he was a AG).


Well having sex with people one is not married to is fairly common among humans. Has been since forever. Treating your spouse (who has cancer) like trash and adding in huge amounts of hypocrisy puts it over the top for me. Your line may be different, but that is where mine is.

Where do you put Sens. Craig and Vitter? Where is your line?
   516. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4201685)
I don't know how exactly I ended up being the Jack Ryan defender here


Because you're evil.
   517. Dan The Mediocre Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:47 PM (#4201687)
Dave, yeah but it took Obama from a 10 point fav to a 30 point fav. Don't think obama would have the Mo he had in 2008 against Hillary without such an advantage.


I don't see why this would be true. Obama beating a decent GOP candidate by 10 is much better looking than him beating a crazy guy by 30.
   518. zonk Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:57 PM (#4201692)


I don't see why this would be true. Obama beating a decent GOP candidate by 10 is much better looking than him beating a crazy guy by 30.


FWIW - the spread prior to the kerfuffle was anywhere from 25 to 10 (IIC, the closest polling had Obama-Ryan ~10 pts, but others had it much wider). Obama was an exceptionally strong candidate running a near flawless campaign who was being groomed as a future star by the national party in a deep blue state, in an open seat. He was winning that race by 15-20 either way.
   519. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:58 PM (#4201693)
I don't see why this would be true. Obama beating a decent GOP candidate by 10 is much better looking than him beating a crazy guy by 30.


Maybe it helped him because he was able to "help out" in other peoples campaigns and build up political equity (since he really did not have to be at home beating the bushes for votes). It also helped preserve his warchest.

But other than the advantages of not having to try very hard to win I don't think there is a vote momentum or anything.
   520. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 06, 2012 at 03:59 PM (#4201695)
Well having sex with people one is not married to is fairly common among humans. Has been since forever. Treating your spouse (who has cancer) like trash and adding in huge amounts of hypocrisy puts it over the top for me. Your line may be different, but that is where mine is.

Where do you put Sens. Craig and Vitter? Where is your line?


I do not really care. I am not shocked (shocked!) to find gambling at Rick's Place. Powerful men sleep around. As Scroobius Pip said, with great power, comes great f#ckability. I was referring to the actions, not the cover up or the hypocrisy. I do find the hypocrites to be the worst, and while I find Gingrich interesting as a human being and a politician, his personal life is not an exemplar. Of course, his second wife was the mistress before that, so she really shouldn't have been so shocked. When the mistress marries the man, she creates a job opening.
   521. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:00 PM (#4201696)
Obama was an exceptionally strong candidate running a near flawless campaign


So what mistakes cmapaigning has Obama ever made? His campaigns have not had the highest highs, but it seems there are never any substantive mistakes. I ask, because I have a terrible memory and it is likely I am overrating his campaigns and there are mistakes there I am forgetting.
   522. squatto Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4201703)
IIRC, Naperville (? I think?) is somewhat renowned in certain circles as the swing capital of the United States.

It's a big place, certainly. I wasn't told what towns these parties are in, but I've heard really big houses with hundreds of people attending SW of Chicago. The hotel parties are supposed to be smaller and crazier. So it could be Naperville. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be talking to the person who has attended them any time soon. Fortunately?
   523. Booey Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4201713)
IIRC, Naperville (? I think?) is somewhat renowned in certain circles as the swing capital of the United States.

It's a big place, certainly. I wasn't told what towns these parties are in, but I've heard really big houses with hundreds of people attending SW of Chicago. The hotel parties are supposed to be smaller and crazier. So it could be Naperville. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be talking to the person who has attended them any time soon. Fortunately?


Stop speaking in generalities. We want an exact address. And a calendar with the dates circled. :)
   524. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:25 PM (#4201719)
Wasn't the hypocrisy charge w/r/t Spitzer that Spitzer was going after prostitution rings as AG while, well, patronizing such rings himself? That is a special breed of hypocrisy.
   525. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:26 PM (#4201721)
Stop speaking in generalities. We want an exact address. And a calendar with the dates circled. :)


No you don't. Swingers; they don't look like the people in the films.
   526. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:26 PM (#4201722)
As Scroobius Pip said, with great power, comes great f#ckability.


YAY!
   527. Lassus Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:28 PM (#4201725)
Wasn't the hypocrisy charge w/r/t Spitzer that Spitzer was going after prostitution rings as AG while, well, patronizing such rings himself? That is a special breed of hypocrisy.

I haven't a shred of forgiveness or understanding for Spitzer; but I don't recall prostitution as being his bugaboo as much as big business.
   528. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:35 PM (#4201737)
I haven't a shred of forgiveness or understanding for Spitzer; but I don't recall prostitution as being his bugaboo as much as big business.


The way a professional politician gets taken down for whoring is to make powerful enemies.

The way for a professional politician to make powerful enemies is to take on the financial sector/Wall St (before it was cool.)

Thus, Eliot Spitzer.
   529. Shredder Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:49 PM (#4201752)
The real benefit of Ryan dropping out of the senate race is that it gave us an Obama-Keyes matchup, which led to the identification of the 27% Crazification Factor.
Keyes was from out of state, so you can eliminate any established political base; both candidates were black, so you can factor out racism; and Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. Batshit crazy. Head-trauma crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement. Hell, even like 5% of Democrats voted for him. That's crazy behaviour. I think you have to assume a 27% Crazification Factor in any population.
   530. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:52 PM (#4201757)
Remind me what Keyes was crazy about again? And note that I'm not disputing that he was, just trying to recall it. I do have a vague recollection that my impression of him at the time was that he was off the reservation in at least some respects.
   531. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4201763)
Remind me what Keyes was crazy about again?


Not sure I could sum that up in a sentence or two. Maybe "everything?"
   532. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4201767)
Bringing this back around to baseball for a moment:

Politicians in Turkey are expressing anger over a picture taken of President Obama in which he's holding a baseball bat while talking on the phone with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

"The photo reveals from whom our prime minister receives orders to rule the country," Metin Lutfi Baydar, a member of the opposition Republican People's Party, said according to Reuters on Friday. -Daniel Strauss, The Hill

LOL
   533. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4201771)
Remind me what Keyes was crazy about again?


He described all homosexuals (including, explicitly, Dick Cheney's daughter) as "selfish hedonists", then disowned his own gay daughter when she came out of the closet, fired her from her campaign job, and threw her out of the house. He said at a press conference that Jesus wouldn't vote for Obama. He was also an early and unapologetic birther, and he said that he wanted to eliminate the federal income tax entirely, among other things.

He's a whack-a-doodle.
   534. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 05:15 PM (#4201783)
He described all homosexuals (including, explicitly, Dick Cheney's daughter) as "selfish hedonists", then disowned his own gay daughter when she came out of the closet, fired her from her campaign job, and threw her out of the house. He said at a press conference that Jesus wouldn't vote for Obama. He was also an early and unapologetic birther, and he said that he wanted to eliminate the federal income tax entirely, among other things.

He's a whack-a-doodle.


Thanks. Some of that I had forgotten, some I never knew.
   535. tshipman Posted: August 06, 2012 at 05:15 PM (#4201789)
he said that he wanted to eliminate the federal income tax entirely


Is it too late to kick Gary Johnson off the ballot for him?

(joking)
   536. squatto Posted: August 06, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4201793)
No you don't. Swingers; they don't look like the people in the films.

Yeah. The avowed swingers/polyamorists that I've known were not the Jeri Ryans/Heidi Klums/Vanessa Williamses of the world. More like the Roseanne Barrs of the world, only not as funny.
   537. Spahn Insane Posted: August 06, 2012 at 05:25 PM (#4201814)
I remember seeing Keyes speak on the presidential campaign trail in (I think) 2000. Strictly for entertainment purposes, mind you.
   538. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4201817)
Yeah. The avowed swingers/polyamorists that I've known were not the Jeri Ryans/Heidi Klums/Vanessa Williamses of the world. More like the Roseanne Barrs of the world, only not as funny.


I recall that Borat drove this point home pretty clearly.

That Real Sex show on HBO does a great job of it as well, if the combined 90 seconds of that show I've seen in my lifetime while trying not to vomit are of any indication. Adam Carolla's pinpoint observation w/r/t the show was that it is a real trick to provide a show that displays sex and nudity that is not only not interesting to guys, but is a complete turn-off.
   539. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 05:42 PM (#4201836)
I recall that Borat drove this point home pretty clearly.


Ray at a Borat show!
   540. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 06, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4201840)
I remember seeing Keyes speak on the presidential campaign trail in (I think) 2000. Strictly for entertainment purposes, mind you.


Keyes is an amazing entertainer. During the 2000 primary season it seemed that every time my housemates and I would come home drunk C-SPAN would be running a replay of some Keyes appearance somewhere. He was great. He's really smart, really nutty, and knew he had no chance in hell of winning anything and so was entirely willing to say everything he thought. The best one was some town hall-style event where he was going on about how the separation of church and state only applies to the federal government and not the states. So, he said, the states should all have established religions. Someone asked what happens if you're a Catholic living in Charleston and South Carolina goes Baptist. Keyes answered that South Carolina can be Baptist, Maryland will be Catholic, Wyoming will be Episcopalian, whatever. So as a Catholic you should just move to Maryland. Each (Christian) religion can have its own state or states, all of the people of the appropriate denominations should move there, and everyone already there should either convert or move to an appropriate state.

This is probably Constitutional (there were established state religions into the early 19th century) but is of course a Very Bad Idea. It made for great C-SPAN fodder.
   541. Dan The Mediocre Posted: August 06, 2012 at 05:51 PM (#4201844)
then disowned his own gay daughter when she came out of the closet, fired her from her campaign job, and threw her out of the house.


We should keep in mind that he did this when the public found out. He had already known for a couple years.
   542. Steve Treder Posted: August 06, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4201855)
We should keep in mind that he did this when the public found out. He had already known for a couple years.

Making it even more of an epic d!ck move.
   543. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 06:20 PM (#4201856)
We should keep in mind that he did this when the public found out. He had already known for a couple years.

According to Wikipedia, he did not fire her or kick her out until after the election was already over, and she marched in anti-Bush protests.
   544. CrosbyBird Posted: August 06, 2012 at 06:35 PM (#4201869)
I hear this a bunch and I really disagree. There will always be short term problems. Always. By this logic we will never reach beyond our grasp. and I believe that solving the short term problems (which again are always with us) requires long term thinking.

That's a huge leap. There are other ways than space exploration to reach beyond our grasp. There's plenty of unexplored scientific territory that has more practical real-world benefits than the space program. I'm not convinced that this means we should stop space exploration, but I can see the argument. It feels very indulgent to spend billions of dollars (even though it was an awesome, inspiring achievement) while there are people on this planet living under the most repulsive conditions.

Look, I stayed up until 2am watching and I wanted to cry tears of joy when I saw that shadowy picture. To think that we're capable of such incredible things makes me proud to be a member of the human species. Perhaps that's enough of a reason to keep spending resources on space travel: to remind us of the heights that we can reach through effort and cooperation. Art and music aren't necessarily practical, but a world without them would be a bleak, unpleasant place.
   545. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 06:40 PM (#4201873)
That Real Sex show on HBO does a great job of it as well, if the combined 90 seconds of that show I've seen in my lifetime while trying not to vomit are of any indication. Adam Carolla's pinpoint observation w/r/t the show was that it is a real trick to provide a show that displays sex and nudity that is not only not interesting to guys, but is a complete turn-off.


The first and only time I saw that show, they were doing a segment on RealDolls.

Super-creepy.
   546. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 06:45 PM (#4201877)
Speaking of which: The horror! The horror!
   547. CrosbyBird Posted: August 06, 2012 at 06:46 PM (#4201879)
Well, nobody did recognize them or yammer about it. It didn't come out until like 5+ years later, and only because the judge allowed child custody records to become unsealed due to media requests.

That was an absolutely horrific ruling by Judge Schneider. There's absolutely no reason for the public to have access to anyone's sealed divorce records. This is a classic case of confusing what might interest the public with something that is in the public interest.
   548. Steve Treder Posted: August 06, 2012 at 06:46 PM (#4201880)
There's plenty of unexplored scientific territory that has more practical real-world benefits than the space program.

Such as? There may well be some such territory, and at some level it's probably impossible to measure, but the space program has always demonstrated a rich ROI. It brings together cutting-edge science not just in astronomy, physics, chemistry, and geology (and on Mars, conceivably biology), but also cutting-edge technology in hardware, software, and telecommunications. It forces very smart people to learn new facts and solve extraordinarily difficult problems, which is about as good a recipe for advancement as there can be in any discipline. All the practical everyday stuff that spun off of the space program in the old Gemini-Apollo days may be a cliche, but like most cliches, it rests on a foundation of truth.
   549. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 06, 2012 at 07:05 PM (#4201892)
I recall that Borat drove this point home pretty clearly.

Ray at a Borat show!


Is nice!
   550. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 07:07 PM (#4201893)
I'm also confused, because I thought the space program was a conservative waste of money, not a liberal waste of money. Gingrich was the one who wanted a moonbase, while Obama is the one who cancelled the manned mission to Mars.

Oh, I dunno, I'm sure Ray and David were against it. I can't imagine Kehoskie's for it, but I'll be happy to be wrong. Various other grumps.


The debate over the space program doesn't interest me one way or the other, so I doubt I've ever said much about it. And yes - I am basically saying that I am above this particular debate. Like many other things the government is involved in, it's a colossal waste of money, money which could be put towards health care or towards reducing the taxes that are taken from my wallet, and as to the scientific argument, there are plenty of areas to make technological advances without resorting to fooling around with space and other planets given that we'll never begin to scratch the surface of what we don't know about the universe.

There. I just said something about it.
   551. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: August 06, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4201899)

Thus, Eliot Spitzer.


You know little about Spitzer then.

Among other things, upon of his first things upon taking office was mis-using the State Police in literally attempting to and failing to frame a guilty man... (Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno).

You also have to understand NY Sate Government- it really does not work very well- it's also- er, extremely undemocratic (not in the political party sense)

due to various flaws, some structural, only 3 men have real legislative power (the Governor, the House leader and the Senate leader), and only 2 others have any say on policing those 3 (the Atty General and the Comptroller)... and the power those latter 2 has is mainly to embarrass the 1st three.

Bruno was a problem, but he literally could be bought, the house leader (speaker_ Sheldon Silver is and was the REAL problem, powerful, corrupt (in what sense? every sense, except as far as I know, sexually*), obstructionist, etc... Spitzer had made noise about going after Silver... but when in office backed down- he then went after Bruno- did it clumsily and got caught (and all he had to do was wait, the Feds were going to take Bruno down for him anyway.)

* I mean that in his personal life, he also pulled a Joe Paterno with respect to one of his aides once.
   552. Lassus Posted: August 06, 2012 at 07:21 PM (#4201900)
I miss William Kennedy.
   553. Steve Treder Posted: August 06, 2012 at 07:50 PM (#4201910)
as to the scientific argument, there are plenty of areas to make technological advances without resorting to fooling around with space and other planets given that we'll never begin to scratch the surface of what we don't know about the universe.

I'm sincerely sorry, Ray, if these sounds too harsh, but there's just no way to assess what you've written here as anything but small-minded, blissfully ignorant, and far, far too certain.

   554. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4201914)
and far, far too certain.


Aren't I always?

   555. Steve Treder Posted: August 06, 2012 at 08:10 PM (#4201921)
It isn't something to be glib about.
   556. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4201923)
Aren't I always?


August 06, 2012 at 07:54 PM; the Ray begins to show signs of self-awareness.
   557. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4201924)
You know little about Spitzer then.


Fair.
   558. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 06, 2012 at 08:12 PM (#4201925)
Aren't I always?
It's a foolish consistency.
   559. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 08:13 PM (#4201928)
The first and only time I saw that show, they were doing a segment on RealDolls.


The Asian hordes are perfecting this tech to a very disturbing degree. Not too long ago there was a story about Chinese rescue workers spending hours "saving a woman" from a flooding river or something, and only when they got her to the shore were they able to distinguish the fact that she was a sex doll.
   560. tshipman Posted: August 06, 2012 at 08:39 PM (#4201947)
as to the scientific argument, there are plenty of areas to make technological advances without resorting to fooling around with space and other planets given that we'll never begin to scratch the surface of what we don't know about the universe.

I'm sincerely sorry, Ray, if these sounds too harsh, but there's just no way to assess what you've written here as anything but small-minded, blissfully ignorant, and far, far too certain.


Oh, don't be such a grandstander. Bell Labs did a lot of innovative stuff without ever heading into space. I hate how NASA is now a political football. NASA is no more noble or grand than the patent office.
   561. Greg K Posted: August 06, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4201950)
Someone asked what happens if you're a Catholic living in Charleston and South Carolina goes Baptist. Keyes answered that South Carolina can be Baptist, Maryland will be Catholic, Wyoming will be Episcopalian, whatever. So as a Catholic you should just move to Maryland. Each (Christian) religion can have its own state or states, all of the people of the appropriate denominations should move there, and everyone already there should either convert or move to an appropriate state.

Sounds like Germany in the early 17th century. What could go wrong?
   562. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 08:48 PM (#4201953)
This is probably Constitutional (there were established state religions into the early 19th century) but is of course a Very Bad Idea.


In addition to being a Very Bad Idea, it's almost certainly unconstitutional post Civil War Amendments. I would suspect an Equal Protection challenge would blow it out of the water now.
   563. Lassus Posted: August 06, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4201963)
Oh, don't be such a grandstander. Bell Labs did a lot of innovative stuff without ever heading into space. I hate how NASA is now a political football. NASA is no more noble or grand than the patent office.

A statement like this accuses OTHERS of grandstanding?


The Asian hordes are perfecting this tech to a very disturbing degree. Not too long ago there was a story about Chinese rescue workers spending hours "saving a woman" from a flooding river or something, and only when they got her to the shore were they able to distinguish the fact that she was a sex doll.

The Asian hordes? Are you picking up snapper's slack? RealDolls is based in California.
   564. Steve Treder Posted: August 06, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4201967)
A statement like this accuses OTHERS of grandstanding?

Really. WTF?
   565. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 09:16 PM (#4201970)
The Asian hordes? Are you picking up snapper's slack? RealDolls is based in California.


And they make every sex doll on the planet?

Lighten up, Francis.
   566. steagles Posted: August 06, 2012 at 09:18 PM (#4201972)
The debate over the space program doesn't interest me one way or the other, so I doubt I've ever said much about it. And yes - I am basically saying that I am above this particular debate. Like many other things the government is involved in, it's a colossal waste of money, money which could be put towards health care or towards reducing the taxes that are taken from my wallet, and as to the scientific argument, there are plenty of areas to make technological advances without resorting to fooling around with space and other planets given that we'll never begin to scratch the surface of what we don't know about the universe.

There. I just said something about it.
do you enjoy watching live sports events like the olympics? because i am pretty sure that's only possible because of the existence of communications satellites in space.

and do you like the internet? because i am also pretty sure that a large part of its backbone is also dependent on the existence of communications satellites in space.


do you really have no grasp of the impact that space exploration has had on your day to day life?
   567. Steve Treder Posted: August 06, 2012 at 09:20 PM (#4201973)

do you really have no grasp of the impact that space exploration has had on your day to day life?


Apparently not. Ray must be the Boy in the Bubble.
   568. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 09:28 PM (#4201979)
Apparently not.


I'm pretty sure none of the satellite infrastructure of either the internet or modern telecommunications has anything to do with a rover on Mars. Ray could perfectly reasonably hold the position that all of the stuff previous space programs have done is good and nifty and impressive but still not see any real need to explore Mars.
   569. Steve Treder Posted: August 06, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4201985)
Ray could perfectly reasonably hold the position that all of the stuff previous space programs have done is good and nifty and impressive but still not see any real need to explore Mars.

If so, he would be demonstrating dazzling stupidity.
   570. Lassus Posted: August 06, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4201994)
And they make every sex doll on the planet?
Lighten up, Francis.


Well, you said perfecting, and no one is Asia is perfecting anything like RealDolls are.

Also, "Asian hordes" is simply an ugly phrase, period. Sorry.
   571. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 09:45 PM (#4201995)
and do you like the internet? because i am also pretty sure that a large part of its backbone is also dependent on the existence of communications satellites in space.


Yes, yes, and Al Gore invented the satellites that made GPS possible. I don't see a good reason to support the entirety of the space program. Others do. Fine. Everything is so crucial to you guys that funding for it can't be cut - not even funding for Lassus's pet arts programs.
   572. Steve Treder Posted: August 06, 2012 at 10:11 PM (#4202008)
I don't see a good reason to support the entirety of the space program. Others do. Fine.

Others are right. You are egregiously wrong.

Fine.

SOP.
   573. Lassus Posted: August 06, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4202011)
Everything is so crucial to you guys that funding for it can't be cut - not even funding for Lassus's pet arts programs.

WTF sense does it make to actually bring up something I specifically said - to you - that I would cut in order to prove we wouldn't cut anything? Nice work, Beavis.
   574. Dan The Mediocre Posted: August 06, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4202013)
WTF sense does it make to actually bring up something I specifically said - to you - that I would cut in order to prove we wouldn't cut anything? Nice work, Beavis.


He's jealous that you get to have a job you like.
   575. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 06, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4202017)
Also, "Asian hordes" is simply an ugly phrase, period.


So is "impotent skullduggery."
   576. Lassus Posted: August 06, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4202019)
He's jealous that you get to have a job you like.

Heh. I wish. On occasion, at best.
   577. The District Attorney Posted: August 06, 2012 at 11:07 PM (#4202032)
Portman seems like the obvious choice.
Why? There's no evidence he'd help in Ohio, and don't you think the Dems are going to have a field day trying to define an unknown whom they can characterize as "Bush's budget director"?

Unless Rubio doesn't want it, I think he has to be the play. Unlike Portman, there's evidence he'd help swing his state¹; the base loves him; and it's nice that it's a bit of an outreach to a community that the party is going to need going forward. It would behoove the Repubs, of course, to actually vet the VP candidate this time to make sure he/she does not make a fool of him/herself.

If Rubio is judged not ready for prime time, then Susana Martinez, Brian Sandoval and Bobby Jindal would be next on my chopping block. Paul Ryan is tempting in the sense that you can really sell "technocratic wonk" with that ticket, but I don't think you want to be in the position of having to defend that budget. Christie brings "attack dog" and seemingly not much else, but I guess it's possible. The drab Pawlenty would be doubling down on the "let's be as inoffensive as possible and hope everyone turns on Obama" strategy, which I think is going badly enough as it is...

¹ Even putting aside the Romney/Portman vs. Romney/Rubio poll numbers, it might well be even more significant that only 12% of Floridians are "not sure" what they think about Rubio's performance, while 37% of Ohioans -- the plurality of people in the state -- are "not sure" about Portman. The guy is a cipher in his home state.
   578. tshipman Posted: August 06, 2012 at 11:17 PM (#4202036)
If Rubio is judged not ready for prime time, then Susana Martinez, Brian Sandoval and Bobby Jindal would be next on my chopping block.


I agree with your analysis overall (indeed, I think my read above is very similar). I only differ in that there's no way that a female, first-term GOP governor will be nominated for VP twice in a row.
   579. The District Attorney Posted: August 06, 2012 at 11:51 PM (#4202053)
I only differ in that there's no way that a female, first-term GOP governor will be nominated for VP twice in a row.
Idealistically, there is no logical reason to project Palin's failings onto Martinez¹, but realistically, I suspect you're right that they won't go that route.

¹ Whom I know basically nothing about, so she could be an ignoramus too for all I know, but I'm certainly not going to assume she is just because another female Republican governor is.
   580. steagles Posted: August 07, 2012 at 05:05 AM (#4202096)
Yes, yes, and Al Gore invented the satellites that made GPS possible. I don't see a good reason to support the entirety of the space program. Others do. Fine. Everything is so crucial to you guys that funding for it can't be cut - not even funding for Lassus's pet arts programs.
isn't it kind of disingenuous for you to make that particular claim, given that the budgetary issues currently facing this country are A) driven in large part by the complete refusal to even consider raising taxes that is so crucial to you guys (well, that's not really accurate, given that the republican nominee for president has presented a tax plan that would raise the tax burden on 95% of the population in this country to pay for a tax cut for the 5% of people who really have the least need for it), and B) well, the actual budgetary crisis is mostly a delusional hallucination that's been created (by you guys) to justify economic policy that's designed to destabilize the economy in order to fulfill mitch mcconnell's stated goal of making barack obama a one-term president.


   581. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 07, 2012 at 07:58 AM (#4202115)
RealDolls is based in California.


For what it's worth, the dental training robot to which I linked in 446 is at least twice as horrifying as a RealDoll, and it (she?) was built in Japan.
   582. The Good Face Posted: August 07, 2012 at 10:06 AM (#4202151)
The internet would work just fine without any satellites at all. Due to transponder loading issues, bandwidth constraints, and latency, satellite is an inferior way to handle internet traffic. Fiber is much, much better. Cheaper too.

Satellites are awesome for any number of other things, but internet isn't really their strength. Oh, and for whoever mentioned science, space, and Bell Labs, who do you think designed and built Telstar 1, the world's first telecommunications satellite?
   583. Shredder Posted: August 07, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4202157)
the 5% of people who really have the least need for it
But they're the job creators!!!
   584. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 07, 2012 at 11:05 AM (#4202198)
I am not the biggest Reid fan, but the way he has derailed the Romney campaign the last week is pretty funny.
   585. tshipman Posted: August 07, 2012 at 11:10 AM (#4202201)
I am not the biggest Reid fan, but the way he has derailed the Romney campaign the last week is pretty funny.


I have mixed feelings. It's pretty clearly unethical to give an interview and lie. However, it is a very smart lie, as it paints Romney into denying specific allegations and has forced a number of campaign errors. It also flipped the script.

I don't like lying from guys on "my side," though.
   586. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 07, 2012 at 11:19 AM (#4202205)
I don't like lying from guys on "my side," though.


It was slimy, sleazy and appalling behavior in general. But you don't bring a knife to a gunfight, and having Reid come out with the "if you want to play the lie-early, lie-often game, let's go" card was sort of brilliant tactics. It's not like team Romney can complain "but lying is bad!" (Well, they can, and they did, obviously, but it's not like Reid is anywhere near the record for pure lies told by the Romney campaign.)
   587. zonk Posted: August 07, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4202215)
I am not the biggest Reid fan, but the way he has derailed the Romney campaign the last week is pretty funny.


He really is landing haymakers... Is he lying? Don't know, don't care -- all I know is that Romney surrogates are now in outrage overdrive, all the while, keeping the very issue above the fold when everyone with two functioning neurons knows that there's a very, very, very easy way for Romney himself to settle the question.

It's smashmouth politics - I'd call it dirty, but then - after some of the nonsense that got tossed about concerning Clinton and Obama, claiming (even with scant or nonexistent evidence) that Romney was able to legally avoid paying taxes is pretty tame stuff... I mean - no one's accusing Romney's daughter of being the product of a rape or suggesting that he murdered his wife's lover over a drug deal gone bad or whatever 'fever swamp' (to use the WSJ Editorial's preferred phrase) nonsense followed Clinton around.

On the one hand, I don't think such stuff is good for politics or governance generally... but on the other, I can't help but be happy that my team has finally decided to at least bring a knife to what's been a gunfight for nearly a generation.
   588. booond Posted: August 07, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4202219)
But you don't bring a knife to a gunfight, and having Reid come out with the "if you want to play the lie-early, lie-often game, let's go" card was sort of brilliant tactics.


Reid isn't playing an all-out bluff, he has cards in his hand. Romney knows this. This won't go away.
   589. zonk Posted: August 07, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4202224)
I don't like lying from guys on "my side," though.


Technically, we really don't know if he's lying... I mean, there's clearly got to be some reason beyond "he made a lot of money" for Romney not to release his returns.

What are the chances Reid is being honest about what a source told him? I think it's relatively fair to say that someone told Reid this - he's too smart to just make up a source and statement wholecloth... the chances the source/statement is credible enough? Well - probably not too good.

But hey - Mitt should cheer up... like I said, he could be a Kenyan Muslim terrorist fist-bumping black panther or a rapist drug-dealing soviet. Being accused of legally not paying any taxes is pretty tame stuff.
   590. Booey Posted: August 07, 2012 at 11:49 AM (#4202229)
It's smashmouth politics - I'd call it dirty, but then - after some of the nonsense that got tossed about concerning Clinton and Obama, claiming (even with scant or nonexistent evidence) that Romney was able to legally avoid paying taxes is pretty tame stuff... I mean - no one's accusing Romney's daughter of being the product of a rape or suggesting that he murdered his wife's lover over a drug deal gone bad or whatever 'fever swamp' (to use the WSJ Editorial's preferred phrase) nonsense followed Clinton around.


This is just a question and not a dispute since I rarely follow politics enough to know, but was it actually someone that mattered that made the nonsense claims above, or is just something you heard personally from whack-a-doodle regular Joe's who's super biased opinions don't really mean anything? Cuz if it's the latter, I remember hearing just as much full-out-ridiculous claims against Bush from nutjob libs as I did against Clinton or Obama from nutjob conservs.
   591. CrosbyBird Posted: August 07, 2012 at 11:50 AM (#4202233)
I'm rooting for this to happen.

Tear the system down!
   592. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 07, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4202239)
It is probably a lie.
If so it is unethical.
Politics is a rough game, but I am not sure that justifies it.
The other side started first and has gone big, but again does that justify it?

Ignoring the ethics of it, it is both funny and really good politics.

I also think it is a bit more ethical than some of this nonsense, because it is a specific person (Reid) coming out with a specific allegation. No hiding behind dog whistles, PACS, or anything else. Just a straight up challenge and not a nasty whisper campaign. And not just any challenge, but one from a senior leader and fellow Mormon. And so easily refuted.

It has basically put Romney in a no win situation. Continue to refuse to release the tax returns and look weak and guilty, and have the conversation pulled away from what you want. Or release the tax returns and look weak and have whatever it was you are trying to hide come out.

The idiocy of the whole thing is when he decided he wanted to be President he should have known he needed to get his financial affairs in order. It might have cost him money, but he easily could have cleaned up his taxes and then released taxes from maybe 2008 or 2006 forward.

Either there is something (like the Swiss Bank account forgiveness) that couldn't be cleaned up in time, or he valued his money more than the damage this could cause. I sure don't feel any pity for him, he put himself into this position, he made his choices, and now he has to live with it.

   593. zonk Posted: August 07, 2012 at 11:58 AM (#4202243)

This is just a question and not a dispute since I rarely follow politics enough to know, but was it actually someone that mattered that made the nonsense claims above, or is just something you heard personally from whack-a-doodle regular Joe's who's super biased opinions don't really mean anything? Cuz if it's the latter, I remember hearing just as much full-out-ridiculous claims against Bush from nutjob libs as I did against Clinton or Obama from nutjob conservs.


Well, Ken Starr did spend a lot of time on the Vince Foster suicide (he was one of the rumored 'Clinton Murders') - taking three years to pronounce it a "suicide". Richard Scaife, who's sort of a mini-Murdoch media baron, contributed heavily to the WaPo reported 'Arkansas Project' -- which raised most of the scurrilous Clinton rumor-mongering to light.

It was more than just late night RW talk radio that raised some of this -- or, switching gears to Obama, it's not hard to find a good dozen or more real, live birthers (or at least, real, live birther coddlers) currently serving in Congress.

   594. zonk Posted: August 07, 2012 at 12:05 PM (#4202246)
Regarding Vince Foster -- here's the wikipedia section on Congressman Dan Burton on the Vince Foster imbroglio...

Burton was one of the most ardent opponents of President Bill Clinton. In 1998, he said, "If I could prove 10 percent of what I believe happened, he'd [Clinton] be gone. This guy's a scumbag. That's why I'm after him."[1] Rep. Burton led the House inquiry into the death of Vincent Foster; he was convinced that Foster was murdered and urged extensive investigation into the possible involvement of the Clintons. Burton gained attention for re-enacting the alleged crime in his backyard with his own pistol and a pumpkin standing in for Foster's head. After hearings into Democratic fundraising (see section below) began, a Democratic National Committee staffer appeared in a pumpkin suit with a button that read, "Don't shoot."[32] Burton's information during the Whitewater controversy was based on opposition research conducted by Floyd Brown, who founded Citizens United in 1988, which created the well-known Willie Horton attack ad against Michael Dukakis. Because of the problems with the quality of Brown's research and testimony, the investigation was closed.[33]


EDIT: Just to be clear - Dan Burton was the chair of the House Oversight committee (the same job Darrell Issa has now -- it's essentially the committee that investigates government itself)
   595. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 07, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4202250)
Politics is a rough game, but I am not sure that justifies it.
The other side started first and has gone big, but again does that justify it?


Refusing to punch back is a good way to assure yourself of a nice, long "it's so unfair" whine when the other guy is stepping on your throat.
   596. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 07, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4202252)
The fact that you people pay attention to these campaigns and various episodes of mudslinging this far in advance amuses me. The two candidates haven't even debated yet.

   597. Lassus Posted: August 07, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4202258)
The two candidates haven't even debated yet.

The fact that you think the general public pays close attention to the debates amuses me.

edit: Do you actually think the debates will HELP Romney? I suppose it's possible, but... not likely.
   598. zonk Posted: August 07, 2012 at 12:29 PM (#4202277)
edit: Do you actually think the debates will HELP Romney? I suppose it's possible, but... not likely.


I think the debates will be interesting for one reason --

People forget that Romney had some really awful debates in 2008 and then early in the 2012 cycle - then, Liberty U's debate coach Brett O'Donnell (Liberty's debate teams always perform well) came on board to prep Romney for the later GOP debates and he performed much better. However, after a couple of stronger performances, some of the inside politics yakkers began talking up O'Donnell's contributions to Romney's improved performances and O'Donnell was essentially sent packing.

Sooo... will we see the wimp Romney that predominated in 2008 and occasionally 2012 or will we see the needling Romney that O'Donnell brought about?

EDIT: Just to be clear, I tend to concur that the debates are meaningless or close to it... I'm just interested for the same reason I'm interested in how, say, Matt Garza's side session looked.
   599. Fresh Prince of Belisle Posted: August 07, 2012 at 12:29 PM (#4202278)
Chess opening as notated by a Democrat.

1. e4! e5?
2. Nf3! Nc6
3. Bb5!! [Black's situation is untenable] +-
   600. Steve Treder Posted: August 07, 2012 at 12:32 PM (#4202281)
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