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Monday, February 24, 2014

OT: The NHL is finally back thread, part 2

Now that the Olympics are over it’s time for the important Hockey to restart.

odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: February 24, 2014 at 05:54 PM | 984 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hockey, nhl, off topic, only thing canada is good at

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   1. vagab0nd (no longer an outl13r) Posted: February 24, 2014 at 08:01 PM (#4661736)
I'll get this started...

SCREW JEFF CARTER - GO CBJ's!
   2. boteman Posted: February 24, 2014 at 09:06 PM (#4661760)
HorseHockey Think Factory.
   3. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 24, 2014 at 11:00 PM (#4661822)
I would just like to note for the record that Teemu Selanne is ####### awesome.
   4. Random Transaction Generator Posted: February 24, 2014 at 11:05 PM (#4661826)
Interesting to see that watching your team give up 2 goals in the last 3 minutes, and then lose in overtime in the most important game of your life, is a family trait for the Kessels...
   5. zack Posted: February 24, 2014 at 11:07 PM (#4661827)
Quit living in the past RTG.
   6. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 24, 2014 at 11:57 PM (#4661844)
Interesting to see that watching your team give up 2 goals in the last 3 minutes, and then lose in overtime in the most important game of your life, is a family trait for the Kessels...

Too soon.

Does it make me a bad Canadian that I would gladly make a deal where the Leafs win the Stanley Cup and Team Canada never wins another gold medal in my lifetime?

   7. Chris Fluit Posted: February 25, 2014 at 12:01 AM (#4661846)
Yes.
   8. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: February 25, 2014 at 03:56 AM (#4661897)
Zeth, its amazing how the old guys played, I love it.
   9. Joey B. has reignited his October #Natitude Posted: February 25, 2014 at 09:03 AM (#4661926)
The worst part of all is we have to keep Justin Bieber.
   10. Tim Wallach was my Hero Posted: February 25, 2014 at 09:23 AM (#4661932)
Plus, our PM got a case of beer (although I know there are way better beers in the US, I still appreciat the little touch of humour)

Does it make me a bad Canadian that I would gladly make a deal where the Leafs win the Stanley Cup and Team Canada never wins another gold medal in my lifetime?

I don't know if it makes you a bad Canadian, but it sure makes you a bad person.

I would just like to note for the record that Teemu Selanne is ####### awesome.

He is.
   11. Random Transaction Generator Posted: February 25, 2014 at 09:37 AM (#4661935)
Does it make me a bad Canadian that I would gladly make a deal where the Leafs win the Stanley Cup and Team Canada never wins another gold medal in my lifetime?


I've thought the same thing myself.
If you asked me before 2002, I would have said no chance. I REALLY wanted Canada to win that gold medal.
And when Vancouver was awarded the Olympics, I would have said no again, as winning at home would have been (and definitely was) magical.
(Every so often, I'll fire up the Youtube videos of Crosby scoring and the compilations of Canadians going crazy when he does. Still gives me goosebumps.)

These Olympics? I was more concerned about beating the US/Russia (if we played them) than about actually winning the gold (until the actual gold medal game).
If it had been a Finland/Canada final, I would have been cheering for Canada but would have still been happy if Finland had won.
(They are the only big 6 nation (Canada/USSR(ussia)/USA/Sweden/Czech(oslovakia)/Finland) not to win the gold medal...they are due, and I've always cheered for Selanne.)

I think I would give up all future gold medals for a Maple Leafs Stanley Cup win. Of course, I'm over 40 so it probably wouldn't be as long as the 1952-2002 gap.
(Of course, if Toronto does win, that probably means the city burns to the ground in the celebration.)
   12. Tim Wallach was my Hero Posted: February 25, 2014 at 10:22 AM (#4661964)
Of course, if Toronto does win, that probably means the city burns to the ground in the celebration.

Heck, if Toronto wins, I know plenty of Habs fans who'll be happy to drive down to Toronto to help burn the city to the ground.
   13. Enrico Pallazzo Posted: February 25, 2014 at 11:19 AM (#4662019)
Heck, if Toronto wins, I know plenty of Habs fans who'll be happy to drive down to Toronto to help burn the city to the ground.

I'm a Habs fan living in Toronto. I'll be the first one to show up with a gallon (3.8L) of gasoline
   14. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: February 25, 2014 at 02:03 PM (#4662171)
Hey, is anybody interested in joining a SIM league? it's kind of like an online sim baseball league, but obviously hockey. The simulator used is the SimonT hockey simulator. We have a good leaegue in season 2 but we have 4 openings. If anybody is interested mail me (or jsut respond to the thread) and I'll message you guys.

Thanks
   15. Astroenteritis Posted: February 25, 2014 at 05:56 PM (#4662404)
Does it make me a bad Canadian that I would gladly make a deal where the Leafs win the Stanley Cup and Team Canada never wins another gold medal in my lifetime?


Not at all. Not to compare the hockey fervor of Canada with that of the U.S. but I'm a Blues fan born and raised in Texas, and I'd take a Blues Stanley Cup in exchange for the United States never winning another winter olympic medal in anything...other than alpine skiing and bobsled. Of course, I know the Blues are headed for another playoff elimination at the hands of some team from the west coast.
And if Houston ever gets an NHL team you can keep the alpine skiing and bobsled medals, too.
   16. zack Posted: February 25, 2014 at 08:05 PM (#4662496)
I'd take a Blues Stanley Cup in exchange for the United States never winning another winter olympic medal in anything

As if being a Blues fan weren't bad enough, you go and say this!

I was actually thinking if I'd trade cups for a US gold this year, and was leaning towards yes. It helps that my team has won 2 cups in the last 5 years.
   17. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 28, 2014 at 12:32 AM (#4663938)
Where does the Kessel/Bozak/JVR line rank amongst the best in the league? They are really hot right now.
   18. Howie Menckel Posted: February 28, 2014 at 01:08 AM (#4663942)

"Heck, if Toronto wins, I know plenty of Habs fans who'll be happy to drive down to Toronto to help burn the city to the ground."

An intriguing part of the NY Rangers' only Stanley Cup win since 1940 (1994} was seeing the serenity of midtown Manhattan vs the uprising in Vancouver in the aftermath.

I love both cities, and you can't be allowed to die without visiting both.

   19. Chris Fluit Posted: February 28, 2014 at 01:37 AM (#4663944)
Great! I'm allowed to die. I've visited Vancouver twice (including last May) and New York City three times (with a fourth visit scheduled for next week).

   20. zack Posted: February 28, 2014 at 08:33 PM (#4664347)
To St. Louis: Ryan Miller (UFA), Steve Ott (UFA)

To Buffalo: Halak (UFA), Chris Stewart (1 more year at $4.15), William Carrier (2013 #57), 2015 first round pick, 2016 third round

As a Blackhawks fan I should probably be scared of Miller behind the Blues defense but I'm not, at least yet.

As a sort-of Sabres fan, not overly impressed with the return. Both their pieces are pending-UFAs, so not super valuable, but unless they are going to flip Halak or Stewart or both I don't see how this makes them better. The first is for 2015 so it might not be quite as late as it probably will this year, but it'll still probably be a late pick.
   21. Langer Monk Posted: March 01, 2014 at 12:23 AM (#4664398)
McKenzie (TSN) thinks Ottawa is after Stewart, so I expect he won't be a Sabre for long.

Strange trade though. I guess the Blues expect Miller to be the difference in the playoffs.

I'm sure we'll see more strange trades between now and Wednesday
   22. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: March 01, 2014 at 01:15 AM (#4664406)
Miller will have hos hands full in tje west. If he stayed in the east tjere isnonly one team tjat should scare him. In the west I would say at least 6 teams are able to beat his brains in.
   23. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: March 01, 2014 at 10:31 PM (#4664730)
So far its been a good game to watch. Lots of snow though
   24. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: March 01, 2014 at 10:36 PM (#4664732)
Crosby complains about someone diving then does one of hisnown.
   25. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: March 02, 2014 at 12:10 AM (#4664748)
Hawks win! The Pen's were dominated in that game.
   26. zack Posted: March 02, 2014 at 12:13 AM (#4664749)
I haven't seen the Penguins yet this year, but I was suprised how unimpressive they were tonight. They basically did not show up until half-way through the game, I think near there NBC had their scoring chances at 2.
   27. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 02, 2014 at 02:25 AM (#4664761)
I think I've got the Penguins figured out--beyond Crosby and Malkin they're an untalented team that tries hard. They win a lot in the regular season because they're so high-effort all the time, but in the playoffs their opponents match their effort level, and when they run into a team with enough defensive talent to focus on stopping Crosby and Malkin, they can't score at all.

Word is the Penguins offered Brandon Sutter, Simon Despres, a 1st and a 3rd for Kessel, which the Canucks declined. Sutter is basically Jordan Staal (great third liner, merely decent second liner) and Despres is a 5th/6th defenseman who's been in Byslma's doghouse for years.

The Blues comically overpaid for Miller, who isn't significantly better than Halak. Someday, sometime, an NHL team will figure out that goaltenders are fungible.
   28. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 02, 2014 at 10:32 PM (#4665140)
I'm pretty sure Tortorella is going to be one-and-done in Vancouver.
   29. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 02, 2014 at 10:39 PM (#4665146)
Word is the Penguins offered Brandon Sutter, Simon Despres, a 1st and a 3rd for Kessel, which the Canucks declined.


Kesler, not Kessel.

Someday, sometime, an NHL team will figure out that most goaltenders are fungible.


I think that is more reasonable. Goalies like Martin Brodeur (who played with hundreds of different teammates, but maintained a high level of consistency and excellence throughout his career) and Dominik Hasek (single-handedly stealing wins for bad teams), if found, can really make a difference.

But the range between the top and bottom goalies in the middle 80% of skill is almost negligible.
   30. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 02, 2014 at 11:04 PM (#4665156)
Dammit, I always mix Kesler and Kessel up. Thanks for the correction.

Hasek was an anomaly that isn't likely to be repeated anytime soon. As well wait for another Nolan Ryan.

Brodeur's astounding consistency is what has made him an all-timer. His save percentage is about the same as anyone else's, always has been.

There is no goaltender in the NHL right now that I would pay more than $3 million a year for. You can get very nearly the same performance for free.
   31. zack Posted: March 02, 2014 at 11:31 PM (#4665164)

There is no goaltender in the NHL right now that I would pay more than $3 million a year for. You can get very nearly the same performance for free.


While I agree that goaltenders are a lot more fungible than most people realize, this is pretty crazy. $3 million doesn't buy what it used to, especially for goalies. Looking at the list, I'm not sure there's a single goalie who's past their 2nd contract and not way over the hill that is making less than $3 million. The top-24 cap hits for goalies are all over $3, and a bunch of those that are under now won't be next year (Varlymov, Crawford, Reimer). $2.5 is basically the floor for a starter.

'Hawks trade Pirri to (of course) Florida for a 3rd and a 5th. Thought he'd go for at least a second.

   32. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 03, 2014 at 12:17 AM (#4665175)
Yes, and every single one of those goalies is overpaid. As long as you have one of the 40-45 guys capable of playing in the NHL, it just... doesn't... matter which one.

But say $4 million if it makes you feel better. I'd rather just cycle through young guys making near the minimum.
   33. steagles Posted: March 03, 2014 at 12:24 AM (#4665177)
I think I've got the Penguins figured out--beyond Crosby and Malkin they're an untalented team that tries hard. They win a lot in the regular season because they're so high-effort all the time, but in the playoffs their opponents match their effort level, and when they run into a team with enough defensive talent to focus on stopping Crosby and Malkin, they can't score at all.
i'd disagree. they're an extremely talented team that has no discipline whatsoever. the peak-era devils played high-effort all the time, but they did it within their system. high-effort for the penguins means a ton of penalties and a ton of freelancing, leading to your goalie being hung out to dry, either on the PK or on odd-man rushes.



so, brayden schenn was obliterated by another capital today, i think the name was orlov this time. guy got a major that probably saved the game for the flyers seeing as they were down 2 at the time midway through the 3rd period and they wound up tieing the game late and winning in OT. watching the play, i'm not sure that schenn shouldn't be suspended, despite being the guy who got hit. he clearly knew where orlov was and that he was coming to get him, but schenn turned his back to the ice and baited orlov to concuss him, instead of getting himself up against the glass where he could have shrugged off the hit.

video is here. replay of the hit is 45 seconds in.
   34. cardsfanboy Posted: March 03, 2014 at 01:21 AM (#4665190)
The Blues comically overpaid for Miller, who isn't significantly better than Halak. Someday, sometime, an NHL team will figure out that goaltenders are fungible.


Halak wasn't even the best goaltender on the Blues...good riddance, big contract and expectations forced them to play him more. Him and Elliot are fungible, Miller is a step above. The Blues have comically failed at doing well in the playoffs for 20+ years because when they had a good goal tender (Cujo) they had not so good of a team, when they had a great team, they had crappy goal tenders, this is the first time, in a long time, that there is a slight chance that they might advance past the second round.
   35. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 03, 2014 at 01:35 AM (#4665192)
You can get very nearly the same performance for free.

Yeah, but a playoff series can change on a just a few saves. That difference can be the difference between advancing and not doing so.

The David Clarkson signing has been disastrous. Man, I wish they had just spent that money on Lecavalier.
   36. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 03, 2014 at 02:36 AM (#4665198)
Yeah, but a playoff series can change on a just a few saves.


Which highly paid goalies are no more likely to make than lower-paid goalies.

This is just like running backs in the NFL. If goalies made a big difference in your playoff chances then the list of Cup-winning (and almost-Cup winning) goalies would consist of a lot of Hall of Famers, like a list of championship quarterbacks or centers or starting pitchers does (and goalies are held at the same stature as those positions, treated as absolutely critical). It's not. Here's the list of goalies in the Cup Finals since the lost season:

2006: Cam Ward, Jussi Markkanen/Dwayne Roloson
2007: Jean-Sebastien Giguere, Ray Emery
2008: Chris Osgood, Marc-Andre Fleury
2009: Marc-Andre Fleury, Chris Osgood
2010: Antti Niemi, Michael Leighton
2011: Tim Thomas, Roberto Luongo
2012: Jonathan Quick, Ancient Martin Brodeur
2013: Corey Crawford, Tuukka Rask

There are a few Vezina nominees in there and guys like Ward and Quick who got Conn Smythes for being the year's Hot Goalie, but there are an awful lot of mediocrities like Fleury and Emery and Old Brodeur, or "who?" like Rolokkanen and Niemi and Leighton, or guys who were famous but sub-average like Osgood and Osgood.

In the NHL the goalie doesn't really matter, as long as he's good enough to play in the NHL. They all perform about the same over time, you can't predict who will get hot and when, what value there is is mostly in game-in-game-out consistency (contrast Brodeur with Fleury, for instance) and guys like Luongo and Lundqvist aren't worth half of what they're being paid.
   37. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 03, 2014 at 03:22 AM (#4665202)
I actually don't think we disagree all that much. I think there are about 15-20 guys who I think are good enough to win the Cup. I don't think it's only the elite goalies. You can win with a pretty good goalie who gets hot. That said, I think you are shortchanging some of the guys on that list.

Roloson lead the league in save percentage the season before making it to the finals with the Oilers. If you didn't know who he was, you weren't paying a lot of attention to hockey. The Oilers traded a first round pick and third round pick for him. Fleury was talented enough to be #1 overall. Niemi has been very good as an NHLer. Quick hasn't always been healthy since winning the Cup but is certainly well regarded.

That's only an eight year sample and some of the guys on that list contradict the point you are trying to make.

It's tough to discuss this point because I don't think there is a way to prove it decisively either way.
   38. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 03, 2014 at 10:39 AM (#4665237)
That's fine. I didn't mean *I* don't know who those guys are (I admit I had to look up Jussi Markkanen, all I could remember is "that Finnish guy, what was his name?") but I don't think casual hockey followers have more than a very vague idea of who those guys are. Even Cam Ward, it's been a long time now since his Conn Smythe run and he's been toiling away in Carolina. It's way too early to be sure but I would bet my money that Jonathan Quick is just Cam Ward, the sequel.

I can't see how Fleury being a great athlete has anything to do with his performance. He's still the most athletic goaltender in the NHL, but no one knew when the Penguins drafted him that he has severe ADD and can't pay attention to what's going on around him. He leads the league every year in "wow!" saves and in "wow, that was stupid" goals allowed, and it all works out to--surprise!--a relentlessly average goaltender.

As for guys contradicting the point I'm trying to make, I don't think so. Take a random sampling and you're going to get a couple of guys regarded as superstars (Luongo and Thomas in this case). Becoming regarded as a superstar after you win the Cup, as in Fleury and Quick's cases, doesn't count and plays right into my point--those guys won the Cup before they received big contracts, and in fact the latter caused the former, not the other way around.

Giving a goalie who isn't Dominik Hasek a big contract is a mistake, because all NHL-quality goalies end up with about the same save percentage and there's no way to predict who's going to lead the league this year or who's going to get red-hot in May.

I think this fact is slow to get recognized because it's a relatively new development. At lower levels where the talent disparity is larger goaltenders are tremendously important, and in the NHL things were a lot different before Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur revolutionized goaltending (or at least were the poster boys for the revolution). There used to be a lot of talk about goaltending styles when I first started watching hockey, in the early 1990s. Now every goaltender basically uses the style Martin Brodeur does. (I do enjoy Jonathan Quick's "if you're good enough to shoot one through the defensemen and over my shoulder then I tip my hat to you, but you are not scoring low, period" innovation, though.)
   39. zack Posted: March 03, 2014 at 12:33 PM (#4665338)
I don't think that's Quick's innovation, lots of guys do that, like Mike Smith and Brian Elliot. Quick's innovation is that he can trunk lift far enough to basically be sitting up while his pelvis is touching the ice. It remains to be seen if his back can take it for any kind of career.

Speaking of goaltending, hockey-reference has added a bunch of new metrics for goalies, most importantly an adjusted save percentage metric, SV-. Which means next time I have to show someone how Ed Belfour and Chris Osgood are nothing alike I don't have to do it by hand. And, you know, Patrick Roy. Now we just need someone to retrosheet hockey so we can have SV% for the late 60's and 70's (screw pre-expansion).

In what I can only assume is Stan Bowman trolling Blackhawks fans for critcizing him after winning a cup, the 'hawks have signed upjumped-punchtaker Brandon Bollig for a $1.25 cap hit. For three years.
   40. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 03, 2014 at 04:44 PM (#4665634)
Yeah, Belfour too--he was a big star before Brodeur was and deserves "poster boy" credit for the modernization of goaltending technique.
   41. steagles Posted: March 03, 2014 at 05:09 PM (#4665655)
In what I can only assume is Stan Bowman trolling Blackhawks fans for critcizing him after winning a cup, the 'hawks have signed upjumped-punchtaker Brandon Bollig for a $1.25 cap hit. For three years.
wow, that's like jody shelley money.
   42. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: March 03, 2014 at 05:24 PM (#4665663)
Id still rather have him than carbomb. At least with bolig he wont be with the top line guys ever.
   43. Langer Monk Posted: March 04, 2014 at 12:59 PM (#4666099)
The David Clarkson signing has been disastrous.


My condolences, really. Thank god the Devils didn't resign him.

There used to be a lot of talk about goaltending styles when I first started watching hockey, in the early 1990s. Now every goaltender basically uses the style Martin Brodeur does.


Am I watching different goalies than you are? I'd love it if more people played like Marty, but classic butterfly goalies are still the vast majority. Sure some guys throw in some moments of staying upright more often, but not as a default.

i'd disagree. they're an extremely talented team that has no discipline whatsoever. the peak-era devils played high-effort all the time, but they did it within their system. high-effort for the penguins means a ton of penalties and a ton of freelancing, leading to your goalie being hung out to dry, either on the PK or on odd-man rushes.


100% agree. Still the best way to beat the Penguins is to do what the Flyers did 2 years ago.

Brodeur's astounding consistency is what has made him an all-timer. His save percentage is about the same as anyone else's, always has been.


I'd love to see a study to see whether some buildings undercount shots while others overcount, and to what extent. Devils at home have always to my eye grossly undercounted shots on goal for both teams.

I also don't think we'll ever see another goalie be able to play as many games as consistently as Brodeur; starting as a 23 year old after the lockout-shortened season: 77, 67, 70, 70, 72, 72, 73, 73, 75, 73, 78, 77, 31, 77. He missed 2004-05 thanks to the second lockout (he was 32), and then finally in 2008-09 his first injury, at the age of 36. The only type of goalie worth a long term deal (in retrospect). You could fill the backup spot with virtually anyone.
   44. Copronymus Posted: March 04, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4666331)
Whether it's lack of talent or lack of discipline, the Penguins' bottom two lines are getting killed, and their lack of depth might well kill the team in the playoffs. I have a sneaking suspicion that depth is more important in hockey that it gets credit for. After all, the worst players in your lineup are still playing something like a third of the game, maybe more. You can bury one or two guys who are struggling, can't play defense, or whatever without too much trouble, but you can't hide your entire bottom two lines and 3rd defensive pairing for very long.
   45. ursus arctos Posted: March 04, 2014 at 05:55 PM (#4666391)
Luongo traded to Florida, where he will play with Tim Thomas.

Truth is stranger than fiction.

Markstrom and Shawn Matthias to the Canucks, who will keep some of Luongo's salary.
   46. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: March 04, 2014 at 07:01 PM (#4666441)
In what I can only assume is Stan Bowman trolling Blackhawks fans for critcizing him after winning a cup, the 'hawks have signed upjumped-punchtaker Brandon Bollig for a $1.25 cap hit. For three years.


For what it's worth, as far as I can tell most advanced stats say Bollig is having a decent year. And while you might be able to attribute that to Kruger & Smith, Kruger, for instance, is putting up the same numbers without Bollig.

Bollig doesn't pass the eye test for me, he is now over-payed, and I'd rather have Morin up here. But I really can't say Bollig is having a bad year or significantly holding the Hawks back.
   47. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 04, 2014 at 07:27 PM (#4666461)
Whether it's lack of talent or lack of discipline, the Penguins' bottom two lines are getting killed, and their lack of depth might well kill the team in the playoffs.


And the Penguins are currently trying to trade depth and draft picks for a top six forward yet again.

I really don't think current Executive of the Year Ray Shero has any idea what the hell he's doing.
   48. steagles Posted: March 04, 2014 at 09:12 PM (#4666510)
I really don't think current Executive of the Year Ray Shero has any idea what the hell he's doing.
of course he does. he's a sleeper agent, sent by the flyers to ruin the prime of crosby's career by surrounding him with piles of ####.
   49. Langer Monk Posted: March 04, 2014 at 11:58 PM (#4666558)
Nobody thinks the Flyers are that creative.
   50. zack Posted: March 05, 2014 at 12:03 AM (#4666560)
Wouldn't it just be easier for the Flyers to hire a competent GM for themselves? But I guess they know incompetence when they see it.
   51. steagles Posted: March 05, 2014 at 12:35 AM (#4666565)
Nobody thinks the Flyers are that creative.
well, it's not like it's an original idea; david stern did a similar thing when he recommended gary bettman to the NHL.
   52. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 05, 2014 at 01:17 AM (#4666572)
Another reason I think goaltending is important is that the Devils and the Red Wings, arguably the two best organizations in the NHL, have not hesitated to spend significant resources on goaltending. Lamoriello and Holland are pretty smart. That doesn't mean that they are always right but they seem that goaltenders aren't all that fungible.
   53. Cabbage Posted: March 05, 2014 at 02:21 AM (#4666578)
I have a sneaking suspicion that depth is more important in hockey that it gets credit for. After all, the worst players in your lineup are still playing something like a third of the game, maybe more. You can bury one or two guys who are struggling, can't play defense, or whatever without too much trouble, but you can't hide your entire bottom two lines and 3rd defensive pairing for very long.


That's my thought as well. For example, the Hawks and Bruins were the deepest teams last year. If you look at the teams that have a sustained run of success over several seasons, they have a core of talent that allows them to roll several strong lines and D-men pairs. That's where you get the possession edge necessary for any sort of sustained success.
   54. zack Posted: March 05, 2014 at 12:17 PM (#4666699)
Deadline has been pretty active given how many teams are wanged up against the cap.
   55. zack Posted: March 05, 2014 at 12:33 PM (#4666708)
Well my opinion of Marty St. Louis has dropped considerably in the last few weeks.

Apparently St. Louis to the Rags for Callahan, 2015 1st and a 2014 2nd is done.

First reaction is that is an awful trade for the Rangers.
   56. ursus arctos Posted: March 05, 2014 at 01:09 PM (#4666728)
Very short term view from NYR, who figure that with St. Louis they have as a good a chance as anyone to come out of the demonstrably weak East. I also don't see Tampa Bay paying Callahan what he wants for a new contract, which will make for an interesting summer.
   57. Langer Monk Posted: March 05, 2014 at 02:06 PM (#4666762)
Laughably bad trade for Rangers. Didn't St. Louis say he only wanted to go there, and both he and Callahan are UFAs, right? (at work so can't check myself)

So then why add 2 picks? Just awful.
   58. Langer Monk Posted: March 05, 2014 at 02:14 PM (#4666767)
That second rounder may end up another 1st if the Rags make the conference finals apparently. And St. Louis has another year on his deal after this. I'd love to know what the deal was with Callahan and the Rangers. Some reports were that they'd gotten within .5M per year on an extension.
   59. ursus arctos Posted: March 05, 2014 at 02:14 PM (#4666768)
St. Louis has a contract through 2015; Callahan is a UFA.
   60. Langer Monk Posted: March 05, 2014 at 02:16 PM (#4666770)
Darren Dreger said NYR would give Callahan 6 x 6M, Callahan wanted 6 x 6.25M.
   61. zack Posted: March 05, 2014 at 04:20 PM (#4666818)
Miles apart. Really disappointed that the Panthers moved Thomas to Dallas after picking up Lu. So many tires will go un-pumped.
   62. ursus arctos Posted: March 05, 2014 at 04:47 PM (#4666853)
Habs get Vanek and a conditional 5th for Swedish prospect Sebastian Collberg and a conditional 2nd.
   63. zack Posted: March 05, 2014 at 04:59 PM (#4666861)
Halak (UFA) to the Caps for Neuvirth (1 more year @ $2.5). Moulson to MIN for Tory Mitchell and picks. Picked up Cory Connacher from the waiver wire.

Tim Murray has had a hell of a first trade deadline.
   64. Shredder Posted: March 05, 2014 at 05:10 PM (#4666870)
SCREW JEFF CARTER - GO CBJ's!
Thanks to Columbus for gift wrapping another missing piece to the Kings in exchange for essentially nothing (or at least very little the Kings had any use for).
   65. Langer Monk Posted: March 05, 2014 at 06:17 PM (#4666930)
Yeah, that's a hell of a gift for LA.
   66. ursus arctos Posted: March 05, 2014 at 06:24 PM (#4666936)
Now reports that Columbus is eating half of Grabbo's salary. Lombardi is a magician.
   67. Langer Monk Posted: March 05, 2014 at 06:50 PM (#4666952)
Lombardi is easily one of the best GMs in the league (now and before).
   68. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 05, 2014 at 08:04 PM (#4666970)
Ray Shero ought to get a T-shirt done up that says #### DRAFT PICKS in big golden block letters, and wear it around.
   69. zack Posted: March 06, 2014 at 01:44 PM (#4667202)
Wow. I guess Lou wasn't stupid for not giving up the 2012 pick. Not sure how the league can do that, but I think it's not a bad idea.
   70. Langer Monk Posted: March 06, 2014 at 02:42 PM (#4667231)
I'm shocked, and not. I think Lou had some alone time with the right people.

Edit: I should say that I always thought the penalty for 'getting caught' doing something quite a few others had also done was grossly inappropriate and harsh.

Lamoriello is an even better magician than Lombardi.
   71. zack Posted: March 06, 2014 at 03:46 PM (#4667276)
That made me think about those contracts, and I was wondering if anyone had actually made it to the garbage years in one yet. Browsing through capgeek, the only one I could find was Ohlund, but his wasn't that drastic and he's been hurt for two years already. Savard's drops to $1.5 next season, and he has likewise been gone for years. Pronger's drops to $4 next season, but his is a full cap-hit anyway so recapture doesn't apply.

So far not looking great, but by definition those were all older players when they were signed. Zetterberg's garbage time starts in 2018, Keith's is more gradual but around 2019, Hossa's 2016, Franzen's 2016 or 17, Luongo 2018 (meaning the Panthers get in on the recapture fun too).

Blackhawks fans I've been arguing with lately all seem to believe that there's nothing to worry about with Hossa's contract, because they can either just trade him (because they don't understand how recapture works) or put him on LTIR. Given how hard the league went after the Devils, I can't imagine they're going to allow teams to put these guys on LTIR without an actual career-ending injury.

   72. Langer Monk Posted: March 06, 2014 at 04:29 PM (#4667330)
Doing some searching, I can't find an exact answer but while I don't know that the league will punish a fake LTIR, there are limits on how much cap relief you will get (here). If though one of those guys isn't actually injured, I imagine the league will simply force the player to be on the roster at the full cap hit.

For Hossa, the Blackhawks are better off having him retire this year, at least the cap hit it manageable for the next 6-7 years.
   73. vagab0nd (no longer an outl13r) Posted: March 07, 2014 at 09:13 AM (#4667631)
Thanks to Columbus for gift wrapping another missing piece to the Kings in exchange for essentially nothing (or at least very little the Kings had any use for).


You're welcome. Gaborik wasn't going to be resigned by the CBJ's and he certainly wasn't going to win a cup this year with the CBJ's. I have no ill will toward him and hope that he wins a cup in the future - as long as it isn't at the Jackets' expense (HA!) and that his team doesn't also have Jeff Carter on it.
   74. Shredder Posted: March 07, 2014 at 09:57 AM (#4667644)
I've never understood the hate for Carter in Columbus. Guy gets traded out of nowhere to a terrible team, plays hurt and puts up fairly close to his career averages despite having a lot less talent around him, and ends up being the whipping boy.
   75. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: March 07, 2014 at 10:23 AM (#4667661)
Because the failings of bad teams are always blamed on their best player.
   76. vagab0nd (no longer an outl13r) Posted: March 07, 2014 at 10:34 AM (#4667669)
Because the failings of bad teams are always blamed on the guy who ####### about being traded there.


FTFY
   77. zack Posted: March 07, 2014 at 10:34 AM (#4667670)
Also because Jeff Carter is really unlikeable. Or maybe it's just me.
   78. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 08, 2014 at 11:41 PM (#4668469)
The Maple Leafs are only point behind the Canadiens for third place in the Eastern Conference. Columbus is 5 points behind the Leafs, in 9th place, but have a game in hand.
   79. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: March 09, 2014 at 12:53 PM (#4668597)
It's not the NHL, but this ranking of hockey hair from the 2014 Minnesota state championships is must watch for anyone who appreciates hockey style. Not just the hairstyles, some of those uniforms are super sweet.

I miss living in Minnesota sometimes.
   80. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: March 09, 2014 at 01:13 PM (#4668607)
And i didn't post the link, whoops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIcoMI6rjaM
   81. Langer Monk Posted: March 11, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4669764)
Thankfully, Peverley seems to recovered from that incident last night.
   82. Yardape Posted: March 11, 2014 at 05:28 PM (#4669805)
Lombardi is easily one of the best GMs in the league (now and before).


In those behind-the-scenes stories about picking Team USA, wasn't Lombardi the one stumping for Keith Yandle, before being shouted down by Brian Burke? Why would anyone listen to Burke over Lombardi at this point in time?
   83. zack Posted: March 11, 2014 at 05:39 PM (#4669809)
He apparently even wrote a report about the "bubble defensemen" advocating for Yandle. Some of the other kinds laughed at him for it. Stan Bowman is the only one besides Lombardi who doesn't come off as a jackass, and coincidentally I think he's easily a top-5 GM. Then again, I used to think a lot of Poile, but who boy he does not come across well in that piece. Burke has always been a tool and a hack (and now he's going to sue me for writing that).
   84. Langer Monk Posted: March 11, 2014 at 08:48 PM (#4669896)
Brian Burke is Stephen Colbert's truthiness incarnate. He felt it in his gut. Turned out to be just some bad sausage.

Meanwhile, this Devils-Flyers game is one of the poorest excuses for officiating I've seen in some time.
   85. zack Posted: March 12, 2014 at 01:03 PM (#4670287)
Meanwhile, this Devils-Flyers game is one of the poorest excuses for officiating I've seen in some time.

Heh, that's before the Flyers goal was waived off, eh? I'm fine with that call, even if it wasn't technically correct.
   86. Langer Monk Posted: March 12, 2014 at 06:29 PM (#4670606)
It was - pretty much every penalty call or non-call and offside was just wrong. At one point, they called a high sticking penalty against a Flyer, then from all accounts, the refs saw the replay on the overhead big screen and changed the call. They actually announced the high sticking against Downie (completely and horribly wrong), then corrected it. Amateur hour.

As for Hartnell's attempt, I think that has to be the call and I think it's technically correct. I don't for a minute think Hartnell was pushed, and the reverse angle shows him doing a sliding stop into Brodeur. Had they actually reviewed it, there's a decent chance it still won't count. The puck was stopped, and rebounded into Hartnell's feet then he contacts the goalie. Shouldn't be the way to score goals.

In any event, was a pretty good game otherwise. And a real important 2 points.
   87. zack Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:19 PM (#4670923)
The Avs are really starting to annoy me.
   88. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: March 21, 2014 at 02:21 AM (#4674722)
Kane is out until the playoffs it looks like. I hope the finm plays in his place. That kid looks loke he will be a stud.
   89. zack Posted: March 21, 2014 at 10:31 AM (#4674801)
They put Kane on LTIR this morning, and recalled Morin and Teräväinen. LTIR is minimum of 10 games/24 days so at best he can play the last two games of the season.

The 'hawks are basically locked into playing the Avs so this could be a good thing, though it'll probably mean burning a year off Teräväinen's ELC.
   90. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: March 21, 2014 at 10:47 AM (#4674815)
though it'll probably mean burning a year off Teräväinen's ELC.

And right now, I don't care. If he can help them win again this year, it's worth it. And they need someone like him, so hopefully he is able to help.
   91. zack Posted: March 21, 2014 at 12:17 PM (#4674864)
It's too bad playoff games count for the ELC slide, otherwise we could have our cake and eat it too. But since they do, I think it's probably wise to say #### it and start playing him as soon as he's settled because you might need him.
   92. zack Posted: March 21, 2014 at 12:30 PM (#4674872)
Any of you guys been to a college conference tournaments? The Atlantic Hockey tournament is being played across the street from my apartment, but I'm kinda balking at the $16 entry.
   93. steagles Posted: March 26, 2014 at 02:32 PM (#4677364)
james neal gonna james neal

hi, i'm james neal. you may remember me from such cheapshots as this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one.
   94. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: April 03, 2014 at 02:04 PM (#4678542)
Towes out til the playoffs
   95. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: April 04, 2014 at 06:33 AM (#4679032)
Just in case not everybody knows, the Leafs do in fact suck.
   96. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: April 04, 2014 at 07:26 AM (#4679039)
I'm not sure Toews being sidelined until the playoffs is much to be worried about; the Blackhawks' playoff position is pretty much locked in, so they may well just have decided to be extra cautious and let him rest for the playoffs.
   97. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 04, 2014 at 10:20 AM (#4679115)
That's definitely what it seems like. But considering how tight lipped hockey teams are about injuries, you never know.
   98. zack Posted: April 04, 2014 at 10:47 AM (#4679163)
I am slightly more concerned about not having home ice than usual, thanks to the Avs playing a mile high, but I'm happy they are playing it the way they are.
   99. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 04, 2014 at 10:58 AM (#4679183)
Just in case not everybody knows, the Leafs do in fact suck.


God, I wish they would just finish the job and lose the rest of their games this season.
Don't drag this season out by winning just enough to fall THIS short of the playoffs.
It's just mean to your fans.

But no, they have to win against Boston last night and now there is some tiny bit of hope still remaining.
   100. zack Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:08 AM (#4679196)
Oh, it's over. It's been over. The two teams ahead of (and behind) them both have 2 games in hand, and Toronto loses the tiebreaker with everyone but Washington.

Who thought at the beginning of the season that the Central would (probably) be sending 5 teams to the playoffs? I still think, long-term, that that conference will be a shitshow considering the size of the markets, but the fact that Dallas and Minnesota both had excellent prospect pools coming up has saved it in the short term.
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