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Monday, February 24, 2014

OT: The NHL is finally back thread, part 2

Now that the Olympics are over it’s time for the important Hockey to restart.

odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: February 24, 2014 at 04:54 PM | 990 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hockey, nhl, off topic, only thing canada is good at

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   901. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 10, 2014 at 06:45 AM (#4722341)
Flip
   902. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: June 12, 2014 at 12:03 AM (#4723761)
Well the rangers avoid the sweep, I expect the kings to finish them off in game 5.
   903. Shredder Posted: June 12, 2014 at 12:11 AM (#4723767)
Fortunately I live in Chicago where most people have already forgotten that hockey exists, but if were to come upon a Rangers fan in the next day or two who complained about either puck luck or officiating, I think I would literally punch them in the face. Kings played their best game of the series and just didn't get the breaks. Should have had at least two slashing calls on plays where Carter flew by the defense, but that happens. Hank was great, and actually gives a really good post game interview. If the Kings play like on Friday, I like their chances, but I've seen a team come back from down 3-0 before, so lots of work to be done.
   904. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 12, 2014 at 06:24 AM (#4723812)
Well the rangers avoid the sweep, I expect the kings to finish them off in game 5.


That's not how the Kings roll.
   905. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: June 12, 2014 at 06:00 PM (#4724487)
Bowman sounds really damn confident that Toews and Kane both sign extensions this summer. It's almost strange to read them say it's a foregone conclusion.
   906. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 12, 2014 at 06:09 PM (#4724497)
Totally fine with that game last night. Kings completely outplayed them, no way the Rangers are picking up any momentum from that. Looking forward to a big party at Staples Friday night.
   907. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 12, 2014 at 06:11 PM (#4724499)
I think re-signing Kane would be a mistake on the Blackhawks' part.

There. I said it.
   908. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: June 12, 2014 at 06:26 PM (#4724517)
Expound. I'd like to know your thought process.
   909. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 12, 2014 at 07:34 PM (#4724550)
1) The Blackhawks already have one extremely expensive superstar forward, plus other stars that aren't cheap. Cap space is precious, and a championship team needs to be deep; they'd be better served spending that $8 million-plus of cap space on two or three good players than one one more superstar forward.

2) I think Kane is a great-not-franchise player who isn't worth the contract he's going to get.
   910. Shredder Posted: June 12, 2014 at 08:10 PM (#4724567)
Having just watched a seven game series against the Hawks, Toews is Greta, and like Kopitar, adds a tone of talent while also doing the things that doesn't always show up on the score sheet. But Kane is the one who scared the hell out of me the whole series. He's a game breaker, and there aren't too many if those in the NHL. I think if you can resign them both, you just about have to. And with a floating cap, if I'm Bowman, I'm probably gambling that it's going to keep rising at a rate that allows me to keep everyone together with some flexibility.
   911. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: June 13, 2014 at 01:57 AM (#4724677)
Zeth the cap should be going up a fair amount this year which will help the hawks fit kane and towes in with ease. if they were to move anyone I think it would be sharp (since i dont think anyone would take hossa's contract).
   912. JL Posted: June 13, 2014 at 10:03 AM (#4724773)
Not sure if it has posted before, but CapGeek is a great site for seeing where teams stand.

Blackhawks Cap

The Hawks have a fair amount of room, but the amount that they sign Kane and Toews for is the key. The $10m a piece seems very high.
   913. Russ Posted: June 13, 2014 at 10:24 AM (#4724794)
1) The Blackhawks already have one extremely expensive superstar forward, plus other stars that aren't cheap. Cap space is precious, and a championship team needs to be deep; they'd be better served spending that $8 million-plus of cap space on two or three good players than one one more superstar forward.

2) I think Kane is a great-not-franchise player who isn't worth the contract he's going to get.


Sounds like someone is projecting from the Malkin experiment in Pittsburgh.
   914. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: June 13, 2014 at 10:35 AM (#4724806)
The Hawks have a fair amount of room, but the amount that they sign Kane and Toews for is the key. The $10m a piece seems very high.

They are probably going to have to move Sharp and/or Seabrook the year the extensions kick in and replace them with cheaper players. They have defensive depth/prospects, so they could consider moving Seabrook now. Having Keith and Hjalmarsson locked up for so long on such reasonable deals is great. But Saad is going to get paid soon, and guys that fill out the roster now are going to keep getting more expensive. That's why the Crawford and Bollig deals bug me so much, neither seem like good value. The Hawks do pretty well at drafting and have a decent system, I don't think you're going to see a repeat of how the Penguins' cap has gone here.

   915. Shredder Posted: June 13, 2014 at 11:19 AM (#4724858)
Wow, the Kings have 18 players under contract next year and (est.) $13MM in cap space. Their only UFAs are Mitchell, Greene, and Gaborik, and their only RFA is Dwight King. None of them, aside from Gaborik, are particularly important and/or irreplaceable pieces. And that doesn't factor in a potential buyout of Mike Richards. If Lombardi's smart, he'll lock up Muzzin, Pearson and Toffoli to reasonable deals before they hit RFA status, and maybe try to extend Martinez as well. If they re-sign Gaborik, they won't need to be too active in the market. They should be in good shape, at least from a salary cap standpoint, for the foreseeable future. Kopitar only has two years left, but Brown, Carter, Doughty, Voynov, and Quick should be together through at least the next five years.
   916. JL Posted: June 13, 2014 at 11:36 AM (#4724878)
That's why the Crawford and Bollig deals bug me so much, neither seem like good value.


It seems to me that under the current cap rules, these sorts of deals are the key. It is not the over pay for the big stars but the over pay for the next level. There are so many more of these players and they too often become the benchmark for the other players who are looking for their payday.
   917. zack Posted: June 13, 2014 at 11:11 PM (#4725695)
You'd be insane not to resign Kane if you could. And you're assuming Toews would allow it. They have the same agent and signed matching deals last time, so it's possible they're even negotiating as a unit.

I'd be surprised if they actually hit $10 per (highest cap ever, only Ovi and Malkin are even over 9), but not by $9.
   918. Roger McDowell spit on me! Posted: June 13, 2014 at 11:23 PM (#4725696)
They have the same agent and signed matching deals last time, so it's possible they're even negotiating as a unit.


That is pretty much what Thornton and Marleau did recently (for better or worse for the Sharks), signing 3 year deals on the same day. Oh, and what a game!
   919. Langer Monk Posted: June 13, 2014 at 11:35 PM (#4725701)
Kings are absolutely relentless.
   920. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: June 13, 2014 at 11:53 PM (#4725705)
Kings are absolutely relentless.
they definitely smell blood.
   921. Langer Monk Posted: June 14, 2014 at 12:02 AM (#4725710)
Get it done early, LA.
   922. Langer Monk Posted: June 14, 2014 at 12:27 AM (#4725714)
Thank you, Kings. Congrats King fans.

Now I can stop rooting for you.
   923. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 14, 2014 at 12:29 AM (#4725715)
Beautiful goal. Congrats to the Kings and congrats to the Rangers on a great season.
   924. zack Posted: June 14, 2014 at 12:35 AM (#4725720)
Rangers had so many chances in OT and couldn't get it past Quick and the pipe both. Losing in five with one regulation loss is tough.

Congrats to the Kings.
   925. Shredder Posted: June 14, 2014 at 01:16 AM (#4725731)
Never thought I'd see one of these, let alone two. I would have given the Conn to Kopitar, but there were a lot of worthy candidates. Glad they won it at home, but didn't really want it to go any longer.
   926. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 14, 2014 at 01:32 AM (#4725733)
Can someone who understands hockey explain to me whether the Rangers screwed up on the game-winning goal, in that the Kings guy who scored after the save by Lundqvist should not have been left all alone there? Because it seemed to me that Lundqvist did all that could have reasonably been expected of him. Why were there no Rangers around Martinez? It was a ricochet goal off of a save, not a breakaway. There should have been time for them to swarm the net.
   927. Shredder Posted: June 14, 2014 at 02:20 AM (#4725738)
Three on two, Clifford drove the net, so the defenseman had to go with him, leaving Martinez alone. Perfect shot that Hank couldn't help but kick to his right, and Martinez was right there. When a D man jumps in, it's usually because he's got his man beat and had some space.
   928. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 14, 2014 at 05:22 AM (#4725755)
A long night but an awesome night. I've had season tickets for 12+ years, spent God knows how much supporting this team (the first decade or so was pretty lean), and really, best money I've ever spent. Nights like tonight are unique and will be something my daughter and I will talk about forever. I can't believe it's happened twice.

Three on two, Clifford drove the net, so the defenseman had to go with him, leaving Martinez alone.

Yes and no. Looking at the replay, Zuccarello got back to make it 3 on 3, but he foolishly chased after the guy with the puck (Toffoli) who was already well engaged by the defenseman. He should have back checked Martinez. On the other hand, it was Pouliot that got beat out of the zone by Martinez and made a pretty lame effort to get back into the play (Zuccarello sails right past him trying to get back). It usually takes multiple breakdowns in a play for there to be a goal and those two are the primaries. Lundqvist spit out a juicy rebound, but Toffoli's shot was deflected coming in, you can't really expect the goalie to control that rebound.

Lundqvist was really fabulous in the last few games. The Kings easily would have kept scoring 4-5 goals a game against a lesser man. I have no idea where all this offense came from, they couldn't score dick during the regular season. No playoff team had fewer goals scored during the regular season. Somehow they add Gaborik, change out Pearson for Nolan, and become Gretzky's Oilers.
   929. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 14, 2014 at 06:29 AM (#4725757)
I'm surprised the Conn Smythe went to Justin Williams. I don't think it's a bad choice, but I would have laid odds on Marian Gaborik.

(Drew Doughty is the best player on the ice at all times he is on the ice.)
   930. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 14, 2014 at 08:18 AM (#4725760)
Thanks
   931. Shredder Posted: June 14, 2014 at 05:49 PM (#4726081)
Doughty is great, but Anze Kopitar has been the best player on the Kings since the day he showed up. The Kings could weather an injury to Doughty. Without Kopitar, they'd be done.
   932. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 14, 2014 at 07:20 PM (#4726196)
Nobody asked me, but I would have voted for the Smythe(Kings only):

Gaborik
Doughty
Kopitar
Williams
Carter

Everyone Else
Huge Gap
Voynov

Safe to say I'll be scouring the net looking for 'Voynov has surgery' stories to explain what we saw this spring.
   933. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 14, 2014 at 08:14 PM (#4726231)
I read the fact three teams remain coachless as an indication John Stevens is about to be the happy beneficiary of a bidding war.
   934. zack Posted: June 16, 2014 at 10:07 AM (#4727146)
So far I've seen news that both the Avs and Jets are filing for arbitration against one of their players. I don't recall ever hearing about team-elected (vs. the usual player-elected) arbitration before. Is there something different in the CBA that encourages teams to do so?
   935. Langer Monk Posted: June 20, 2014 at 03:46 PM (#4731758)
Brad Richards to be bought out by the Rangers. This amuses me.
   936. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: June 27, 2014 at 02:31 PM (#4737488)
####, Kesler to the Ducks. For a whole lot of nothing.

And rumors of the cap coming in at $68mil, not above $70mil as originally thought. Which means the Hawks are over the cap, and probably couldn't have fit Kesler in even if they beat the Ducks' offer. Also, lots of smoke about the Hawks trading Sharp - which on some level makes sense - you trade the 32 year old guy coming off a career year in most cases, but there's also rumors about "other" reasons to trade him. Plus, the Toews/Kane contract ask is allegedly $12mil/yr.
   937. Langer Monk Posted: June 27, 2014 at 07:14 PM (#4737707)
It really never ceases to amuse me having Bettman booed so much.
   938. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: June 27, 2014 at 10:50 PM (#4737828)
It really never ceases to amuse me having Bettman booed so much.
what this draft really needs is vuvuzelas.

also, #### the penguins for taking kapanen's kid. can't wait for the darius kasparitis jersey retirement night where they show show his dad getting concussed and stumbling off the ice in that 5OT game.
   939. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: June 28, 2014 at 12:32 PM (#4738003)
Bollig traded for a draft pick!!!!!
   940. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 01, 2014 at 01:47 PM (#4740824)
Can I just say how bonkers NHL FA is? Not even 2 hours in, and seems like everybody has signed, and for way more money they it seems like they should get. It's hard to pick out the worst contract. At the same time, there are some teams making good moves - like the Stars, Blues. Seems like a lot of the silliest moves are out East - I'm looking at you, Dale Tallon.
   941. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: July 01, 2014 at 01:56 PM (#4740844)
At the same time, there are some teams making good moves - like the Stars, Blues. Seems like a lot of the silliest moves are out East - I'm looking at you, Dale Tallon.


How many former Hawks has Tallon picked up during his tenure in Florida? I count Versteeg, Bolland, Thornton, Pirri, Olsen, Hayes, Campbell, Magnus Johansson. Who am I missing?

A little bummed the Hawks have been quiet but it's understandable. I hope this means Teravainen gets a legit shot at second line center rather than Shaw or an FA retread like Regin.
   942. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 01, 2014 at 02:09 PM (#4740863)
Kopecky. Madden. Skille.

Surprised he missed out on Havlat, considering how little he just signed for.
   943. Shredder Posted: July 01, 2014 at 04:57 PM (#4741219)
A little bummed the Hawks have been quiet but it's understandable. I hope this means Teravainen gets a legit shot at second line center rather than Shaw or an FA retread like Regin.
I wouldn't get my hopes up. Good pickup for the Hawks. Hardly costs them anything.
and for way more money they it seems like they should get.
When the budget artificially increases by $10MM, it's a good year to be a free agent.
   944. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 01, 2014 at 04:59 PM (#4741226)
Regin will be a 4th liner, maybe 3C at times. And he's only getting paid like $600k. Totally worth it.

Brad Richards though, he's a nice fit at 2C for 1/$2mil. I'm perfectly fine with that. Hawks are over the cap, so a trade (most likely Oduya, I'd reckon) is forthcoming.
   945. Shredder Posted: July 01, 2014 at 05:26 PM (#4741280)
By my count, about 15 guys signed contracts with new teams for an AAV of over $4MM per year. In total about $76.2MM in AAV. Most of that stayed in the same conference, but overall, $19.2MM moved West, while only $5MM moved East. At least in free agency, the much stronger conference got even stronger. Vanek, Poulliot, Hemsky, and Iginla move West, while only Cammelleri moved East. Hemsky isn't really much of a move, but he's kid of cancelled out by Miller (also a deadline deal) staying in the West. 11 of those 15 started in the East, so I guess it's not a surprise,
   946. stevegamer Posted: July 01, 2014 at 06:03 PM (#4741388)
Flyers (as usual) off to a bad off-season start. Hextall promotion is par for the course, maybe he'll figure things out at some point, but more mistakes are going to come fast and furious in the short term.

The trade of Hartnell for Umberger was laughable, and they are still over the cap, but now have a guy who isn't very good, and under contract for 3 years, not five. Maybe Pronger will retire or whatever he needs to do at some point, and leave the cap number.
   947. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 01, 2014 at 06:35 PM (#4741476)
Don't forget trades. Spezza and Neal both moved West.
   948. zack Posted: July 01, 2014 at 07:01 PM (#4741508)
I missed the entire day due to the world cup and other distractions, so I'm just reading through the ESPN free agent tracker, and probably misreading a lot of it since I thought Igilna had re-signed in Boston.

Anyone who still think Dale Tallon is a good NHL GM is nuts. Caps fans hated McPhee by the end but I can't imagine he would have had the disaster of a day that his replacement just had. I thought Buffalo was on the right track with the draft they had, but once again they can't resist handing out long contracts like candy.

Not excited about Brad Richards but at least it's only 1 year. Does this mean I get to mean to people who whined about 2C for the last 5 years when he fails? Or does the buyout mean he's not a "real 2C" anymore?
   949. DA Baracus Posted: July 01, 2014 at 08:11 PM (#4741552)
Flyers (as usual) off to a bad off-season start. Hextall promotion is par for the course, maybe he'll figure things out at some point, but more mistakes are going to come fast and furious in the short term.

The trade of Hartnell for Umberger was laughable, and they are still over the cap, but now have a guy who isn't very good, and under contract for 3 years, not five. Maybe Pronger will retire or whatever he needs to do at some point, and leave the cap number.


They aren't over the cap when you factor Pronger's LTIR (and that you can go 10% over in offseason), Pronger retiring would screw them over.

Acquiring Umberger was so stupid though.
   950. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: July 01, 2014 at 08:33 PM (#4741573)
Signing Richards reminds of the Robert Lang signing however-many-years-ago that was.

Richards' advanced stats look OK but at 34 I'm concerned he won't have the wheels to keep up with Kane & Saad.
   951. stevegamer Posted: July 01, 2014 at 10:55 PM (#4741653)
They aren't over the cap when you factor Pronger's LTIR (and that you can go 10% over in offseason), Pronger retiring would screw them over.


Ah, that was unclear to me, he shows as a cap hit, on Cap Geek, but I guess the LTIR gives them an offsetting credit. It's just another of their many bad long-term deals. I had to see if they were responsible for Umberger's deal the last time he as here - I didn't think it was likely, but I've realized anything was possible.
   952. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: July 02, 2014 at 02:46 AM (#4741729)
Could he really be any worse than Handzuzs? I think it was a pretty good signing.
   953. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 02, 2014 at 10:13 AM (#4741813)
Richards' advanced stats look OK but at 34 I'm concerned he won't have the wheels to keep up with Kane & Saad.

He slots in at 2C and is pretty much the 2nd best center on the team by default (for now), but that doesn't mean that line is going to be exclusively that. Can't you picture a Richards/Hossa/Sharp line as being really effective (which could mean a Toews/Kane/Saad line)? Handzus flash-backs are inevitable, but even now Richards has more offensive feel and ability than Handzus ever did. I can't imagine him anchoring Kane anywhere near as effectively as Zus. Seeing him get so thoroughly outplayed by the Kings is especially worrying, but I guess you hope in a different role/situation it turning out differently (he's not the only one who got his ass kicked that series). And I just don't see a whole lot of risk here, with that deal. Now if the Hawks can un-acquire Versteeg, I'll just be thrilled with this offseason.
   954. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 02, 2014 at 03:51 PM (#4742099)
Apparently Washington highly values defensemen who have experience being the only guys who try to play defense on a lazy team led by an uncoachable superstar.

I think Niskanen's contract is a fair value--not sure if I would have gone 7 years on him, but the AAV is about right--and Orpik's contract may be the worst I've seen this offseason. Orpik is finished, or very close to it. You can't get away with skating like you're underwater unless you're as big as Hal Gill, and Orpik has had trouble staying healthy too.
   955. Langer Monk Posted: July 02, 2014 at 06:43 PM (#4742279)
Haven't had a whole lot of time to process July 1 signings. Pretty happy though that the Devils signed Cammalleri, Havlat and didn't sign Fayne to what was an overpay. Good kid, but that's too much. Also glad they bought out Volchenkov, that contract had become a dead weight.

A couple of really expensive contracts for defensemen. Stralman got 5 x 4.5, Orpek's 5 x 5.5 is pretty funny, Fayne's. And Niskanen's value isn't bad, but 7 years, and you better hope to hell he plays like the 2013-4 guy, and not the 2009-12 guy. On the other hand, no absolutely immediately derided contracts this year.. maybe Bolland for 5 x 5.5 was the worst?
   956. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 02, 2014 at 06:54 PM (#4742290)
Giving three years to a guy like Tanner Glass who can't play hockey is pretty LOL, but not tremendously damaging because it's not much money. The ice time you're taking away from a replacement level hockey player and giving to a goon (who in Glass's case isn't even any good at being a goon) will hurt you more than the lost cap space will.

Orpik's contract is far more harmful because you're devoting $5.5 million a year to a player who either won't be playing or will be playing at replacement level at best. For five years. Ouch.
   957. Langer Monk Posted: July 02, 2014 at 08:03 PM (#4742328)
I hadn't seen the Tanner Glass signing. Three years? I wonder why Sather decided to bid against himself for 3 years.
   958. zack Posted: July 02, 2014 at 08:24 PM (#4742333)
Pretty happy though that the Devils signed Cammalleri, Havlat and didn't sign Fayne to what was an overpay

You're not terrified of 5 years for 32-year-old Mike Cammalleri? The Havlat deal is the kind of thing I think works in general, but with Havlat in particular I can't see it working out. I guess the most realistic downside is he's hurt all year, which doesn't really hurt you except in opportunity cost.
   959. Langer Monk Posted: July 02, 2014 at 11:56 PM (#4742437)
Not really, he'll turn 36 as the final year starts. I don't think that's really too old anymore. At least not on the Devils, where we got players like Jagr and Elias now. Hell, even if he only gives 2 years of 20-30 goals, it's probably worth it for this club. I think he'll give good value for 2 years, decent for 2, and the last is the cost of doing business.

Havlat's a low risk, high reward signing for 1.5M. He stays healthy and finds some magic with his buddy Elias, it's all golden. He sucks or gets hurt, enjoy the press box.
   960. zack Posted: July 09, 2014 at 02:23 PM (#4747102)
Kane and Toews signed matching 8-year, $10.5m per contract extensions that start next season. The next highest paid player in the game is still Ovechkin at $9.5m. I'm really happy that for once in my life a Chicago superstar will be sticking around to get paid, buuuuuuuuuuttttt...

The 'hawks better win the cup this season because that window is going to slam shut for a few years, until $10m falls back into the reasonable range when they are in their early 30's, and hopefully still producing.
   961. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: July 09, 2014 at 03:07 PM (#4747134)
I disagree with the slam shut part. If it means they have to start moving guys like Sharp and Seabrook next year, so be it. It'll be the ideal time to move them (due to their ages, but they'll still have value). You'll need to replace their production, and cheaper, and you're hoping you can due that with guys coming up through the system. I'm more confident on the blue line, especially since it seems like Seabrook has been getting worse the last few years, and maybe already look better just by playing with Keith. Outside of Hossa - who is still productive - none of their contracts are unmovable. And outside of Keith, Toews and Kane, I think they can find ways to replace those guys. They've done a better job filling in around the edges and have kept the prospect pool fuller than say, the Pens, who are in a similar spot.

Since this doesn't kick in for another year, I also think there's a little more leeway with whatever the cap increase will be that year. Regardless, it's not going to be anything like 2010 even if they have to shed some guys (and even then, they rebuilt rather quickly, wouldn't you say?).
   962. Langer Monk Posted: July 09, 2014 at 03:24 PM (#4747155)
May have a Cory Schneider extension in the next hour.

Chicago is really pushing up against that cap already next year with those two deals, they really better hope the cap is at least 71M for 2015-6.
   963. Langer Monk Posted: July 09, 2014 at 04:17 PM (#4747229)
7 years, $6m per, for Schneider. Very nice.
   964. SteveF Posted: July 14, 2014 at 08:35 PM (#4750409)
Chicago is really pushing up against that cap already next year with those two deals, they really better hope the cap is at least 71M for 2015-6.

They'll need to move salary at this point. Signing both Kane/Towes essentially requires it. They'll have to move Sharp, Bickell, Seabrook, or Hjarmalsson. They probably wouldn't trade Keith since they need him so badly and they couldn't really get fair value back because of the length of his contract. The same is true of Hossa. As good as Hossa is right now, I'm not sure I'd take him for free. Hockey playoffs are really too random to make a 'go for it' type of deal that mortgages the future to a large extent. The best team won last year, but a bad bounce here or there and they don't even get out of the first round.

To my mind, the choice was between letting Kane walk or trading Sharp and I think they made the right choice.
   965. zack Posted: July 14, 2014 at 10:02 PM (#4750446)
As good as Hossa is right now, I'm not sure I'd take him for free

The cap recapture penalties stay with Chicago no matter what, so Hossa isn't as untradeable as he was. He has two years (including the upcoming season) left at $7.9m, then 1 year of $4m and 4 years of $1m left. After this season he might have significant value to teams that want to artificially get to the floor.
   966. SteveF Posted: July 14, 2014 at 11:36 PM (#4750469)
The cap recapture penalties stay with Chicago no matter what, so Hossa isn't as untradeable as he was. He has two years (including the upcoming season) left at $7.9m, then 1 year of $4m and 4 years of $1m left. After this season he might have significant value to teams that want to artificially get to the floor.

Two excellent points. I didn't remember that about the cap recapture. Thanks for the insight.
   967. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: July 15, 2014 at 02:22 AM (#4750501)
I dont think they woild move hjarmalsson, he is too important on d. I think sharp and seabrook are the ones who will get traded.
   968. Rennie's Tenet Posted: August 26, 2014 at 08:45 AM (#4779159)
I was looking at some NHL stuff from the early 70s, and saw that their playoffs used to be 1st place v. 3rd place and 2nd place v. 4th place. Any ideas why they did that? The only theory I can come up with is that it might maximize the chance of 1st meeting 2nd in the final, because 3rd over 2nd would be the most likely upset.
   969. Win Big Stein's Money Posted: August 30, 2014 at 07:14 PM (#4782530)
   970. Howie Menckel Posted: August 30, 2014 at 10:06 PM (#4782571)
"I was looking at some NHL stuff from the early 70s, and saw that their playoffs used to be 1st place v. 3rd place and 2nd place v. 4th place. Any ideas why they did that? The only theory I can come up with is that it might maximize the chance of 1st meeting 2nd in the final, because 3rd over 2nd would be the most likely upset."

The NHL had bizarre playoff formats even in the 1930 and 1940s. Maybe it's a Canadian thing, lol.

my modern favorite is the 1982 Canucks, who had a losing record (30-33-17) but finished 2nd in a division that had the Oilers and four dwarfs. The Canucks beat another dwarf, Calgary, and when the Kings shocked the Oilers, the Canucks got to play another losing team in the Kings. After beating them, the Canucks had to play Chicago, yet another losing team that had upset the only other good Clarence Campbell Conference team, Minnesota. this was divisional play for two rounds - no matter how bad the division was - and then division "winners" from the conference facing off before the finals.

So the Canucks, a team with a losing record, advanced to the Stanley Cup Finals by beating three straight opponents with losing records. Then they played the Islanders, the league's best team and - hold onto your hats for this one - the Canucks got swept.

The Islanders were the only 1 of the top 8 teams to reach the final 4 that year...
   971. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: October 06, 2014 at 01:54 AM (#4808320)
Hawks trade Leddy and sign carcillo, not a good day.
   972. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: October 07, 2014 at 12:46 AM (#4809479)
I have to say that I can't find much reason to be optimistic about the Leafs. Is their upside making the playoffs as a lower seed? I know that's a big deal for the Leafs considering the last decade but that's hardly a reason to look forward to this year.
   973. Win Big Stein's Money Posted: October 07, 2014 at 06:31 AM (#4809495)
You're not the only one confused by the Leafs. Sean McIndoe listed them in his 'No-Fucking-Clue Where They Wind Up' write up.

On the plus side after years of bragging that don't need no analytics, they hired Darryl Metcalf of the eggcellent Extraskater.com. Possibly the best advanced hockeys stats site on the interwebs. I think most of these changes were instituted by the President, the same one who brought that tracking technology to the Toronto Raptors (the one that measured defense).

Their certainly measuring to be one of the most progressive franchises in the league. But that prolly isn't going to help them win games anytime this season...
   974. Langer Monk Posted: October 07, 2014 at 10:29 AM (#4809611)
A couple teams have started up analytic departments - which is good - but I think it'd be more helpful across the league to have a standardized way to count things first, like shots for instance. Data analysis is only as good as the data going in.
   975. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: October 07, 2014 at 11:27 AM (#4809686)
Hawks trade Leddy and sign carcillo, not a good day.

It's a shame the cap crunch cost the Hawks Leddy, but I'm trying to justify the trade to myself by saying he probably was about as good as he was going to be on the Hawks. In other words, between the limited opportunities/sheltered zone starts/lack of faith by Q/depth of blue line prospects*, I'm not sure Leddy was going to do much more with the Hawks. He still has plenty of potential, and can eventually be a pretty good offensive defenseman (to this day, I don't know why he didn't get more PP time). TCI points out Rozival was the much more obvious guy to move, but he has a NTC so the Hawks' hands were tied.

As much as I hate Carcillo - he is easily one of my least favorite Hawks all time - I feel like the damage he can cause is pretty limited due to how fragile and suspendable he is. He'll be hurt or gone before he can do too much damage; doesn't mean I'm going to like the fact he'll dress over Morin. It's a damn shame Teuvo isn't breaking with the team, but he'll be up soon enough.

*Let's ignore the fact the Hawks are keeping Cumiskey around, who definitely doesn't fit that bill.
   976. JAHV Posted: October 07, 2014 at 04:24 PM (#4810034)
I'm really sad that extraskater isn't up any more. I visited that site all the time. Anyone here have any other favorites for Corsi/Fenwick/QoC/QoT stats?
   977. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: October 08, 2014 at 10:52 AM (#4811161)
There's a bunch of sites, etc linked here. War on Ice and Progressive Hockey are the 2 I see people reference most so far.
   978. Langer Monk Posted: October 08, 2014 at 11:25 PM (#4811669)
It looks like Rogers Sportsnet has decided to really go all out with it's coverage. Almost makes TSN look sad and dated.
   979. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: October 09, 2014 at 11:52 PM (#4812217)
Hawks win in the shoot out after playing like crap the First 40 minutes.
   980. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 10, 2014 at 07:53 AM (#4812275)
It looks like Rogers Sportsnet has decided to really go all out with it's coverage. Almost makes TSN look sad and dated.


Rogers is looking to finally come out on top of the "Canadian sports war" with TSN.
They WAY overpaid for the NHL rights, they cling quite possessively to the MLB rights, they hold the Thursday night football rights, plus they hold a lion's share of the EPL/UEFA/FA Cup games.
   981. Langer Monk Posted: October 10, 2014 at 10:35 AM (#4812363)
I assumed it was somewhat similar to NBCSN and ESPN here in the states, though it sounds like Rogers is way further along than Comcast is.
   982. Flynn Posted: October 10, 2014 at 10:46 AM (#4812369)
TSN has World Juniors, CFL, and some regional team rights. they have some baseball rights too, and I think maybe the Raptors.

Not nothing, but there's a reason why Richard Griffin wrote a piece about TSN kicking the tires on reincarnating the Expos.
   983. JAHV Posted: October 13, 2014 at 02:12 PM (#4815764)
I love daytime hockey. The Ducks have looked mediocre at best so far, but I'm hoping a game against the Sabres will cure their ills. Ryan Kesler is a beast.
   984. JAHV Posted: October 13, 2014 at 07:56 PM (#4816056)
As it turns out, yes, playing the Sabres does cure a lot of ills.
   985. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: November 12, 2014 at 09:27 PM (#4841498)
The Leafs are kicking the crap out of the Bruins tonight. That's basically a miracle even if Chara is out.
   986. Win Big Stein's Money Posted: December 08, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4856930)
   987. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: December 08, 2014 at 04:54 PM (#4856956)
Mandela?

Never saw him toe drag.
   988. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: December 13, 2014 at 10:37 PM (#4861358)
That's really embarrassing for Bernier.

The Leafs are playing very well right and look like they will make the playoffs. What's the likelihood of a collapse? 75%?
   989. zack Posted: December 13, 2014 at 11:15 PM (#4861368)
By shot metrics, they're the 6th worth and 2nd luckiest in the east....so probably? Working in their favor is that the east is pretty weak once again. Tampa, Detroit and the Islanders look like solid bets. You have to assume that Boston will get its #### together eventually. Pittsburgh will probably manage a high seed like they always do, despite being not nearly as good as the 2008-10 teams were. That leaves a lot of room for a team like Toronto to fit into the playoff picture.

That said, the shot metrics are also pretty wacky for this far into the season. LA is underwater for the first time in years. Nashville and Winnipeg are both in the top 7. So who knows.
   990. zack Posted: December 14, 2014 at 01:12 PM (#4861572)
'hawks trade another young forward they were unable to find a place for, this time Jeremy Morin to Columbus for oft-traded-but-still-23 D Tim Erixon. Pretty even swap, not much to say about it other than I'd like it a little better if Erixon were right handed and I'm a little sad to see Morin go 'cause he was from around here. Hopefully Q will give Erixon more than 10 minutes a game, because they're really gonna need to sort out 2 or even 3 of the young d-men for the coming capocolypse. Wouldn't be terribly surprised to see all of Seabrook, Oduya and Rozsival gone after this season. All of whom play the right side.
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